Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

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UlanBatori
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Oct 2019 08:33

Russia accuses US of 'demographic engineering' in Syria
Turkey's operation was a result of "demographic engineering" that was carried out by member-countries of the US-led international coalition in Syria, Russian Permanent Representative to the UN Vassily Nebenzya said at the international body's headquarters in New York.
Nebenzya told reporters at the international body's New York headquarters that the coalition was "reaping the fruit" of their demographic policies.
"We are encouraging the Kurds to engage in dialogue with the Syrian government, but as you know they preferred other protectors," he added.

Putin is not wasting any chances.
And..

Syria rejects dialogue with US-backed Kurdish forces
Syria's Deputy Foreign minister Faisal Maqdad said US-backed Kurdish-led forces had betrayed their country and accused them of a separatist agenda that gave Turkey a pretext to violate his country's sovereignty.
"We won't accept any dialogue or talk with those who had become hostages to foreign forces ...There won't be any foothold for the agents of Washington on Syrian territory," Maqdad told reporters in his office in Damascus.


Plan appears to be:
(a) Get NATO member Turkey to destroy NATO-supplied SDF. Already succeeded in getting the US occupying forces to at least shift position.
(b) Either Turkey withdraws on its own, or the Turkish army goes home in coffins.
(c) Get all disgusted with the US and NATO, and thus get NATO out of Syria.

Ingenious. I was wondering what clout Syria/Iran had to get the rest of Syria liberated from the occupying forces.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 11 Oct 2019 09:28

Rony wrote:On a lighter note, I dont know if the translations are correct or fake for humor purposes. But :rotfl: regardless .

Sirji,
When I was studying German in Goethe Institut in Berlin a long time ago, in our class we were asked where we came from as a part of introducing ourselves. Some said the US, some said USSR, India and so on. Till one student said that he came from Kurdistan. Immediately, a Turkish student jumped at him saying that there is no such country. Could he show Kurdistan in a map? The instructor had to separate them and explain that even though a country may not exist in the current political map, it was only one criteria. A country may still exist even when not in a map. In Europe many countries disappeared for a time, only to reappear later on. Poland is one good example that comes to mind immediately. The problem is that Turks are brainwashed to be nationalists and always look back to the time they had an empire to rule over. More poor the become more they believe in this greatness. Once a Turkish guest worker told me in his broken German: "Thousand years yesterday all Europe is Turkey". Then the paused to add "India also". I told him that time will change a powerful people into Gastarbeiters in a foreign country, doing the bidding of a Kafir. We should remember Turkey is hated wherever they ruled. And they ruled harshly. Especially Greece and Armenia hate Turkey the most. And the Arab lands hate Turkey. Turkey's dream of ruling the Ummah will remain just a dream, unless they conquer the Middle East by force as they had done before. Not much chance of that happening under current circumstances.
Gautam

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Y. Kanan » 11 Oct 2019 16:04

ramana wrote:From today radios show
SDF hold 75000 ISIS families. Not all are terrorists.


Sure they are. I have never understood this argument. If you work for terrorists on the home front by doing your wifely duties and popping out little baby jihadists, you are no different than the ISIS recruit mopping floors behind the lines. You're still a terrorist and should be treated accordingly.

Why not just exterminate all these pesky ISIS prisoners? I'm frankly suspicious of the Kurds holding them so long. Why are these scum still alive?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 11 Oct 2019 16:13

g.sarkar wrote:When I was studying German in Goethe Institut in Berlin a long time ago, in our class we were asked where we came from as a part of introducing ourselves. Some said the US, some said USSR, India and so on. Till one student said that he came from Kurdistan. Immediately, a Turkish student jumped at him saying that there is no such country. Could he show Kurdistan in a map? The instructor had to separate them and explain that even though a country may not exist in the current political map, it was only one criteria. A country may still exist even when not in a map. In Europe many countries disappeared for a time, only to reappear later on. Poland is one good example that comes to mind immediately. The problem is that Turks are brainwashed to be nationalists and always look back to the time they had an empire to rule over. More poor the become more they believe in this greatness. Once a Turkish guest worker told me in his broken German: "Thousand years yesterday all Europe is Turkey". Then the paused to add "India also". I told him that time will change a powerful people into Gastarbeiters in a foreign country, doing the bidding of a Kafir. We should remember Turkey is hated wherever they ruled. And they ruled harshly. Especially Greece and Armenia hate Turkey the most. And the Arab lands hate Turkey. Turkey's dream of ruling the Ummah will remain just a dream, unless they conquer the Middle East by force as they had done before. Not much chance of that happening under current circumstances.
Gautam


Gautam sir, looks like they have same sense of superiority complex as pakis, but are they as delusional as pakis? If they are, they might try to take ME by force, their version of reconquista.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 11 Oct 2019 21:15

g. sarkar ji,

I frequent (Anatolian) turks occasionally and whenever they come up with this "we turks ruled India" BS, i remind them that its not Anatolian Turks who ruled India but Turkics from Central Asia who could never rule India fully because Hindus always revolted and never let them rule.

We need to understand Anatolian turk history in order to counter them in the only language they understand. Anatolian 'Turks' are only Turks in language and culture but not by ethnicity/genes. Central Asian genetic component in today's Anatolian turks is less than 25%. Anatolian Turks are to Central Asia what Mexicans are to Spain. Had Mexicans been as delusional as Anatolian turks, they would have named themselves as Spanish and forget/dissed their pre-spanish history and identifying and celebrating their spanish colonization. Most of the Anatolian Turks ancestry is Greek (and some minority were persians/arabs/armenians etc) who were living in Anatolian plateau and were forcefully converted and Turkified by the migrating/invading Central Asian Oghuz/Seljuk turkic tribes. Its like Pakis deluding themselves as turks/persians etc because their ancestors were forcefully converted. Same with the Anatolians who now call themselves Turks after their turkification.

So whenever these Anatolian turk comes up with this "we ruled India' BS, i rub it on them that Hindus fought Turkics for hundreds of years and never gave up or converted but your (Anatolian) pre-turkified Greek ancestors never had it in them and got converted and turkified by a few central asians.

I also rub it on them that long before any Turkics or Greeks in Anatolia and West Asia, Hindu ancestors Mittanis ruled that place.


Karthik S garu,

Turks are as delusional as Pakis when it comes to Indians with the same superiority complex as Pakis. Turks think Pakis are leftovers of Turkics in India and hence support them. The Pakis of course also delude themselves that their forefathers are turks, persians, arabs etc. So the lovefest is mutual.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Ardeshir » 11 Oct 2019 21:47

Last week I was in Istanbul for work. It's a quirky place, and has a very Old Delhi-ish vibe to it in some parts. In some of the touristy areas, it's crowded 24/7. I went to a sheesha bar close to my hotel for a few nights in a row, and made friends with the managers and waiters - all Kurds. The Manager was perhaps late 60s, and spoke English very well, having been a tour guide in an earlier career. He absolutely hated Erdogan. Kept talking about how Kurds are humiliated and harassed by the cops on a daily basis, with random checks, cops barging into homes etc. They were not bothered at work, since the cafe's owner was a well respected/connected Turk.
The guy didn't know much about India apart from Shahrukh Khan. And to my surprise, he really loved Donald Trump. Wonder how that love will have changed since the subsequent decisions by the POTUS.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nachiket » 12 Oct 2019 00:53

Y. Kanan wrote:
ramana wrote:From today radios show
SDF hold 75000 ISIS families. Not all are terrorists.


Sure they are. I have never understood this argument. If you work for terrorists on the home front by doing your wifely duties and popping out little baby jihadists, you are no different than the ISIS recruit mopping floors behind the lines. You're still a terrorist and should be treated accordingly.

Why not just exterminate all these pesky ISIS prisoners? I'm frankly suspicious of the Kurds holding them so long. Why are these scum still alive?

You are talking of killing women and children. And how many of those women were "spoils of war" captured, forcibly married and raped by the ISIS jihadis when they were running rampant across Iraq and Syria?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Oct 2019 01:17

Rony wrote:g. sarkar ji,

I frequent (Anatolian) turks occasionally and whenever they come up with this "we turks ruled India" BS, i remind them that its not Anatolian Turks who ruled India but Turkics from Central Asia who could never rule India fully because Hindus always revolted and never let them rule.

We need to understand Anatolian turk history in order to counter them in the only language they understand. Anatolian 'Turks' are only Turks in language and culture but not by ethnicity/genes. Central Asian genetic component in today's Anatolian turks is less than 25%. Anatolian Turks are to Central Asia what Mexicans are to Spain. Had Mexicans been as delusional as Anatolian turks, they would have named themselves as Spanish and forget/dissed their pre-spanish history and identifying and celebrating their spanish colonization. Most of the Anatolian Turks ancestry is Greek (and some minority were persians/arabs/armenians etc) who were living in Anatolian plateau and were forcefully converted and Turkified by the migrating/invading Central Asian Oghuz/Seljuk turkic tribes. Its like Pakis deluding themselves as turks/persians etc because their ancestors were forcefully converted. Same with the Anatolians who now call themselves Turks after their turkification.
So whenever these Anatolian turk comes up with this "we ruled India' BS, i rub it on them that Hindus fought Turkics for hundreds of years and never gave up or converted but your (Anatolian) pre-turkified Greek ancestors never had it in them and got converted and turkified by a few central asians.
I also rub it on them that long before any Turkics or Greeks in Anatolia and West Asia, Hindu ancestors Mittanis ruled that place.
Turks are as delusional as Pakis when it comes to Indians with the same superiority complex as Pakis. Turks think Pakis are leftovers of Turkics in India and hence support them. The Pakis of course also delude themselves that their forefathers are turks, persians, arabs etc. So the lovefest is mutual.

Ronyji thanks for the information. Even though I knew that the current population of Greece and Turkey are different from the original people who created the civilization, I do not know much about their history. Do you have any book to suggest? I would like to know more about Mittanis.
Gautam

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Roop » 12 Oct 2019 01:51

g.sarkar wrote:Turkey's dream of ruling the Ummah will remain just a dream...

So it turns out the Turks are basically just a bunch of Pakis, but a little less broke.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nachiket » 12 Oct 2019 02:08

Roop wrote:
g.sarkar wrote:Turkey's dream of ruling the Ummah will remain just a dream...

So it turns out the Turks are basically just a bunch of Pakis, but a little less broke.

They are in some respects worse. The sense of superiority is even more than Pakis because they actually did rule large parts of the ummah including all Arab lands for a while. The anger at losing that control due to the fall of the Ottomans is also still festering. Ataturk tried to fix the problem by forcing them to let go of Islamiyat but it obviously didn't work as well as he intended.
In Paki case it is a fake sense obtained by convincing themselves they are descendants of either Arabs, Persians or Turks/Central-Asians according to whatever is convenient at any given time.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Oct 2019 02:21

nachiket wrote:
Y. Kanan wrote:
Sure they are. I have never understood this argument. If you work for terrorists on the home front by doing your wifely duties and popping out little baby jihadists, you are no different than the ISIS recruit mopping floors behind the lines. You're still a terrorist and should be treated accordingly.

Why not just exterminate all these pesky ISIS prisoners? I'm frankly suspicious of the Kurds holding them so long. Why are these scum still alive?

You are talking of killing women and children. And how many of those women were "spoils of war" captured, forcibly married and raped by the ISIS jihadis when they were running rampant across Iraq and Syria?

And 75000 of them to boot. Nice. Thoda sochkey aur samajhke toh baat keejiye bhaiyon.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Oct 2019 02:25

g.sarkar wrote:
Rony wrote:On a lighter note, I dont know if the translations are correct or fake for humor purposes. But :rotfl: regardless .

Sirji,
When I was studying German in Goethe Institut in Berlin a long time ago, in our class we were asked where we came from as a part of introducing ourselves. Some said the US, some said USSR, India and so on. Till one student said that he came from Kurdistan. Immediately, a Turkish student jumped at him saying that there is no such country. Could he show Kurdistan in a map? The instructor had to separate them and explain that even though a country may not exist in the current political map, it was only one criteria. A country may still exist even when not in a map. In Europe many countries disappeared for a time, only to reappear later on. Poland is one good example that comes to mind immediately. The problem is that Turks are brainwashed to be nationalists and always look back to the time they had an empire to rule over. More poor the become more they believe in this greatness. Once a Turkish guest worker told me in his broken German: "Thousand years yesterday all Europe is Turkey". Then the paused to add "India also". I told him that time will change a powerful people into Gastarbeiters in a foreign country, doing the bidding of a Kafir. We should remember Turkey is hated wherever they ruled. And they ruled harshly. Especially Greece and Armenia hate Turkey the most. And the Arab lands hate Turkey. Turkey's dream of ruling the Ummah will remain just a dream, unless they conquer the Middle East by force as they had done before. Not much chance of that happening under current circumstances.
Gautam


Talk about getting triggered - dayyum :shock:

And the Balkans too, one should see how much the Serbs love the Turks.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 12 Oct 2019 07:29

g.sarkar wrote:
Rony wrote:g. sarkar ji,

I frequent (Anatolian) turks occasionally and whenever they come up with this "we turks ruled India" BS, i remind them that its not Anatolian Turks who ruled India but Turkics from Central Asia who could never rule India fully because Hindus always revolted and never let them rule.

We need to understand Anatolian turk history in order to counter them in the only language they understand. Anatolian 'Turks' are only Turks in language and culture but not by ethnicity/genes. Central Asian genetic component in today's Anatolian turks is less than 25%. Anatolian Turks are to Central Asia what Mexicans are to Spain. Had Mexicans been as delusional as Anatolian turks, they would have named themselves as Spanish and forget/dissed their pre-spanish history and identifying and celebrating their spanish colonization. Most of the Anatolian Turks ancestry is Greek (and some minority were persians/arabs/armenians etc) who were living in Anatolian plateau and were forcefully converted and Turkified by the migrating/invading Central Asian Oghuz/Seljuk turkic tribes. Its like Pakis deluding themselves as turks/persians etc because their ancestors were forcefully converted. Same with the Anatolians who now call themselves Turks after their turkification.
So whenever these Anatolian turk comes up with this "we ruled India' BS, i rub it on them that Hindus fought Turkics for hundreds of years and never gave up or converted but your (Anatolian) pre-turkified Greek ancestors never had it in them and got converted and turkified by a few central asians.
I also rub it on them that long before any Turkics or Greeks in Anatolia and West Asia, Hindu ancestors Mittanis ruled that place.
Turks are as delusional as Pakis when it comes to Indians with the same superiority complex as Pakis. Turks think Pakis are leftovers of Turkics in India and hence support them. The Pakis of course also delude themselves that their forefathers are turks, persians, arabs etc. So the lovefest is mutual.

Ronyji thanks for the information. Even though I knew that the current population of Greece and Turkey are different from the original people who created the civilization, I do not know much about their history. Do you have any book to suggest? I would like to know more about Mittanis.
Gautam


g. sarkar ji,

You can start with these first

To understand Turks and Greeks

Turkic migration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_migration

Turkish people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people

Genetic studies on Turkish people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_s ... ish_people

History of Anatolia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Anatolia

The Passion of the Greeks : Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes
http://www.thehandstand.org/archive/feb ... greeks.htm

The Problem of Modern Greek Identity
https://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/63166


On Mittanis

Akhenaten, Surya and the Rigveda by Subhash Kak
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d08e/0 ... ae7b38.pdf

Mitanni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni

Mitanni-Aryan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni-Aryan

(Note : The wiki links on Mittanis take Aryan migration theory as fact.Ignore that and other details are fine)

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Oct 2019 07:36

Thanks Boss.
Gautam

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Deans » 12 Oct 2019 10:33

Ardeshir wrote:Last week I was in Istanbul for work. It's a quirky place, and has a very Old Delhi-ish vibe to it in some parts. In some of the touristy areas, it's crowded 24/7. I went to a sheesha bar close to my hotel for a few nights in a row, and made friends with the managers and waiters - all Kurds. The Manager was perhaps late 60s, and spoke English very well, having been a tour guide in an earlier career. He absolutely hated Erdogan. Kept talking about how Kurds are humiliated and harassed by the cops on a daily basis, with random checks, cops barging into homes etc. They were not bothered at work, since the cafe's owner was a well respected/connected Turk.
The guy didn't know much about India apart from Shahrukh Khan. And to my surprise, he really loved Donald Trump. Wonder how that love will have changed since the subsequent decisions by the POTUS.


I first visited Turkey in 1998 (was posted there). The extent of Islamisation in the Erdogan era is amazing. 20 years ago, there were few women in Istanbul wearing a headscarf. Only one person in our office fasted during Ramzan. Men did not have beards. Govt employees & Univ students were forbidden to have headscarfs of grow Islamic style beards. There was a more thriving nightlife than now. Prostitution was legal. What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.
Last edited by Deans on 12 Oct 2019 10:37, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Deans » 12 Oct 2019 10:35

g.sarkar wrote:Thanks Boss.
Gautam


pdfdrive.com has a whole set of free downloadable books on the Ottoman empire (and other genres like Military history). Osman's dream is a good and detailed read.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 12 Oct 2019 12:21

Thanks Brother.
Gautam

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 12 Oct 2019 16:53

What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.

+72^2 England 2025? Germany 2022?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 12 Oct 2019 17:30

UlanBatori wrote:
What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.

+72^2 England 2025? Germany 2022?


India ? :( :(

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 12 Oct 2019 17:54

Image

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 12 Oct 2019 18:16

Deans wrote: What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.


Kemalists in Turkey did understood that Islam is anti-thesis to progress and did supressed it especially folk islam forcefully. But this ambitious effort was only half succesfull leaving behind not a fully reformed turkish soceity but a bitterly divided one.

Kemalism had two main pillars- nationalism and secularism.

Turkish nationalism gained acceptance in all sections of Turish soceity (with the exception of Kurds) cutting across secular-islamist divide. Its a forcefully assimilationist nationalism where all the ethenic groups in the country (including arabs, bosnians, albanians, circassians) along with their languages and cultures are supressed and forcefully assimilated and officially described as "Turks". The Kurds were the only group who resisted this.

On the other hand, Turkish secularism had only limited success. Except for urban population in istanbul and ankara and few other cities who became its self appointed guardians (with the help of generals and judges who until early 2000s also came from the same urban strongholds), it never really took hold in the Anatolian heartland. And the authoritarian top-down forceful version of secularism gave rise to Islamist backlash which ultimately captured power.

Now the shoe is in the other foot. In other words, just as Kemalism’s effort to de-islamize Turkey only proved to be a half success, Islamist's effort to re-islamize Turkey will most likely prove to be a half success as well and similarly will only help further divide Turkish society like Kemalism has done, rather than fully transform it.

You want proof ? Look at this article

Why so many Turks are losing faith in Islam

and this . God Is Dying in Turkey as Well

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 12 Oct 2019 19:47

Gurus is below tweet accurate? Google search indicates they belong to Iran.

Wanderer
@Bhikhshu
India should support the Kurds. They are descendants of ancient Indian migrants like the Mitannis, and many acknowledge this fact in their folklores. They are one of the most oppressed stateless population in middle East, India should help them out against the caliphate Turkey.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 12 Oct 2019 20:33

Karthik S wrote:Gurus is below tweet accurate? Google search indicates they belong to Iran.

Wanderer
@Bhikhshu
India should support the Kurds. They are descendants of ancient Indian migrants like the Mitannis, and many acknowledge this fact in their folklores. They are one of the most oppressed stateless population in middle East, India should help them out against the caliphate Turkey.



Not a guru but this is my take. Kurds as a group like many others have heterogeneous origins combining a number of earlier tribal and ethnic groups that lived in what is now their area and that includes semetic, Indo-Aryan and turkic people as well among others. So in that sense, Mitannis could be one of those earlier ethnic group who got assimilated into what later became Kurds. But not all Mitannis might have ended up as Kurds. Some of them might have got assimilated into what are now Armenians, Yezidis, Arabs, Turks, Iranians and what not considering that Mitanni lands have been inhabited by a lot of these people after them.

Mitannis first got assimilated into Hurrians. Hurrians later got assimilated or subdued by a Urartu people (who according to some hypothesis are ancestors of present day Armenians). Urartu people in turn got conquered by the Medes from Iran who were Pre-Zoroastrian Vedic Mithra worshipers. Medes were in turn assimilated by Persians. The Persians got in turn conquered by Greeks and Arabs both of whom were in turn conquered by Turkics. Now i would guess (but wont bet on it) that the Mitanni ancestry is present at some level in all these groups at various degrees.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 12 Oct 2019 22:33

Thanks Rony garu.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Deans » 12 Oct 2019 22:35

The Turkish army is the 2nd biggest in NATO numerically. The fact that it is part of NATO, with IMO, a high level of nationalism, should make it a better army, unit for unit, than say Saudi. I believe their problems stem from the 2016 purge of their officer corps - half their fighter pilots and brigade commanders have been purged. An increase in their budget deficit and depreciation in the Turkish lira due to war (which will be exacerbated by sanctions) can cause their economy to go under.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karan M » 12 Oct 2019 22:44

You said it Deans. That purge basically cemented Erdogans grip on power and gutted his detractors. For all purposes, Turkey is headed the Pak way, albeit they have high per capita income thanks to their location at Europes periphery.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nam » 12 Oct 2019 22:51

Due to being in NATO and European supplies, the Turks have managed to get & create top notch kit. For Pak, turkey is fundamentally an indirect route to get hands on European & US hardware. With the Chinis supplying the numbers and Turkey providing the silver bullets(with US nudge & wink), Paks will be able create capability to continue the attrition war.

Paks seems to be fairly confident they will the Turkish attack chopper, despite having US engine. So much so they even allocated money for it.

The Pak problem is not going away, anytime soon.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nam » 12 Oct 2019 22:55

Germans seems to have blocked any further arms sales. Ofcourse it is a drama, it will resume as soon as Erodogan announces a on-paper ceasefire, while forces carry out their strikes.

Turks like Paks, are busy creating tweets to win the perception battle. Every negative tweets about Turkey, has turks tweeting photos of turkish soldiers hugging and kissing kids.

Really sad at all these, as I was looking forward to seeing my favorite Turkish actress in Bollywood :((

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 13 Oct 2019 01:31

Karthik S wrote:Gurus is below tweet accurate? Google search indicates they belong to Iran.

Wanderer
@Bhikhshu
India should support the Kurds. They are descendants of ancient Indian migrants like the Mitannis, and many acknowledge this fact in their folklores. They are one of the most oppressed stateless population in middle East, India should help them out against the caliphate Turkey.


I think there might be some truth in this

check out the yazidis

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kit
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 13 Oct 2019 01:36

nam wrote:Due to being in NATO and European supplies, the Turks have managed to get & create top notch kit. For Pak, turkey is fundamentally an indirect route to get hands on European & US hardware. With the Chinis supplying the numbers and Turkey providing the silver bullets(with US nudge & wink), Paks will be able create capability to continue the attrition war.

Paks seems to be fairly confident they will the Turkish attack chopper, despite having US engine. So much so they even allocated money for it.

The Pak problem is not going away, anytime soon.


The "problem" becomes one only when you think of it as a problem. Indias future lies in engaging the Chinese not the pipsqueak western neighbour. As long its rise is assured and is enabled nothing will stop it. Stop and prevent any economic interactions with Pakistan, make Chinese goods costlier to enter even through FTA , our babus are good at this., sell our stuff abroad, replace the Chinese as manufacturing centres, support and enhance local industries and military production etc, India will get there , when the pipsqueak manages any adventurism deal with it a blow that will take a decade to recover.

Atmavik
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Atmavik » 13 Oct 2019 01:49

Karthik S wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:+72^2 England 2025? Germany 2022?


India ? :( :(


not in the Modi/Shah era. if yogi has his way ghar wapsi might start..

g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Oct 2019 02:16

Karthik S wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:+72^2 England 2025? Germany 2022?

India ? :( :(

Forget about England or Germany, they are far away. In the nearby countries for example Malaysia or Indonesia, being Muslim majority can turn radical within a few months. Indonesia has a history of anti India actions during our wars with Pakistan. Bangladesh, which has improved its relations with India recently, and improving itself economically, can completely become wahabi within one election cycle. If India helps Sindhudesh and Baluchistan to independence, there is no guarantee that they will not turn against India quickly to appease its radical population. There is always this risk of establishing close relations with these countries. And the relationship can never be that of equals. India will always need a danda ready to clobber them if it is necessary.
Gautam

Ardeshir
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Ardeshir » 13 Oct 2019 02:26

Deans wrote:I first visited Turkey in 1998 (was posted there). The extent of Islamisation in the Erdogan era is amazing. 20 years ago, there were few women in Istanbul wearing a headscarf. Only one person in our office fasted during Ramzan. Men did not have beards. Govt employees & Univ students were forbidden to have headscarfs of grow Islamic style beards. There was a more thriving nightlife than now. Prostitution was legal. What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.


Deans ji, you make some very pertinent points. The quirkiness of Istanbul I saw stems from the many oddities and contradictions I saw.
Prostitution is still legal, but no new licensed have been issued for years, as per the locals. However, walk down Taksim at night, and take one of the many alleys and you will see hundreds of transexual prostitutes waiting for clients. My hotel was right next to a police station, and that's where most of these 'ladies' were. This phenomena isn't too dissimilar to the bacchabazi traditions with the Bakis and Afghans - rather go to men or transgenders than to women for unlicensed carnal activities.

Ataturk was a deracinated secularist, a Turkish-Nehru of sorts. Just as how Nehru imposed his personal belief of secularism in the late 40s/early 50s, Ataturk did the same to Turkey in the 1920s. The difference was the with or without a law, Hindus allow for everyone to co-exist. Turks due to their Islamic baggage, revert to religious exclusivism in the shortest amount of time.

Amber G.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Amber G. » 13 Oct 2019 02:30

Global Reaction to Turkey's recent conflict according to wiki: (Pak is only friend ?)
Image

g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Oct 2019 02:36

Deans wrote:The Turkish army is the 2nd biggest in NATO numerically. The fact that it is part of NATO, with IMO, a high level of nationalism, should make it a better army, unit for unit, than say Saudi. I believe their problems stem from the 2016 purge of their officer corps - half their fighter pilots and brigade commanders have been purged. An increase in their budget deficit and depreciation in the Turkish lira due to war (which will be exacerbated by sanctions) can cause their economy to go under.

I will add: Turkey does have a long military tradition unlike the Arabs. Turkey was in the military alliance with Germany in WWI (unlike WWII) and this fact is still looked with admiration in Germany. It was in Gallipoli, in 1915, that a young Mustapha Kemal "Ataturk" prevented the British (English, ANZAC and Indian) forces to land and establish a foot hold. (Could Panditji have done that?) The British (WSChurchill) did not think that the Turkish army was capable of this. During the cold war, NATO built up the Turkish army so that in the event of a war, it would tie up a large Soviet forces there.
Gautam

Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 13 Oct 2019 03:27

Amber G. wrote:Global Reaction to Turkey's recent conflict according to wiki: (Pak is only friend ?)
Image


There are two more small green dots one above Saudis and one above Iranis. Qatar and Azerbaijan respectively.

Turkey is currently to Qatar what Pakis are to Saudis. Providing mercenaries/military support in exchange for Baksheesh. There is turkish military presence in Qatar and in exchange Qatar emir gave $15billion last year to the bankrupt turks for its mercenary support. Ironically its from Saudis and Emiratis that Qatar is seeking protection from. So when shyte hits the fan, "blood brothers" Turkis and Pakis will be fighting each other theoretically :D

Azerbaijan is a fellow turkic country and turkey supports it against Armenia after doing genocide of its own Armenians.

Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 13 Oct 2019 04:26

g.sarkar wrote: Turkey does have a long military tradition unlike the Arabs. Turkey was in the military alliance with Germany in WWI (unlike WWII) and this fact is still looked with admiration in Germany. It was in Gallipoli, in 1915, that a young Mustapha Kemal "Ataturk" prevented the British (English, ANZAC and Indian) forces to land and establish a foot hold.


During polemical encounter with Indians, a turk will surely bring up two things. One is "Timurid empire" (thats how turks call Mughal empire) that goes with "we turks ruled you" polemic and two the Battle of Gallipoli with captured Indian soldiers picture that goes with "We defeated you Indians in the battle" polemic. Of course, then we would remind them and bombard them with pictures from the Battle of Haifa when Mysore and Jodhpur Cavalry regiments routed the turks :D


Y. Kanan
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Y. Kanan » 13 Oct 2019 10:44

Ardeshir wrote:
Deans wrote:I first visited Turkey in 1998 (was posted there). The extent of Islamisation in the Erdogan era is amazing. 20 years ago, there were few women in Istanbul wearing a headscarf. Only one person in our office fasted during Ramzan. Men did not have beards. Govt employees & Univ students were forbidden to have headscarfs of grow Islamic style beards. There was a more thriving nightlife than now. Prostitution was legal. What alarms me is how quickly a secular liberal state (as it seemed to me) can revert to its Islamist state in a short while - sort of like `lord of the flies'.


Deans ji, you make some very pertinent points. The quirkiness of Istanbul I saw stems from the many oddities and contradictions I saw.
Prostitution is still legal, but no new licensed have been issued for years, as per the locals. However, walk down Taksim at night, and take one of the many alleys and you will see hundreds of transexual prostitutes waiting for clients. My hotel was right next to a police station, and that's where most of these 'ladies' were. This phenomena isn't too dissimilar to the bacchabazi traditions with the Bakis and Afghans - rather go to men or transgenders than to women for unlicensed carnal activities.

Ataturk was a deracinated secularist, a Turkish-Nehru of sorts. Just as how Nehru imposed his personal belief of secularism in the late 40s/early 50s, Ataturk did the same to Turkey in the 1920s. The difference was the with or without a law, Hindus allow for everyone to co-exist. Turks due to their Islamic baggage, revert to religious exclusivism in the shortest amount of time.


Muslims can only be civilized at the point of a gun. Once Turkey went democratic (ie: the Kemalist generals died out or lost influence and stopped having coups) they were guaranteed to go full retard in short order.

g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 13 Oct 2019 10:50

Y. Kanan wrote:Muslims can only be civilized at the point of a gun. Once Turkey went democratic (ie: the Kemalist generals died out or lost influence and stopped having coups) they were guaranteed to go full retard in short order.

You mean they went full beard in short order?
Gautam


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