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Managing Pakistan's failure

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RajeshA
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 10 May 2017 16:43

3-Way Distribution of Spoils of War Solution

The one thing Political Islam really understands is making war, raiding and robbing others of their treasure. So why not use that to our advantage?

What stops India, Afghanistan and even Iran to wage war on Pakistan, if each one of them is promised a chunk of the territory of Pakistan?!

Let's say Afghanistan gets Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA. Iran could be accommodated with some part of Baluchistan or could be appeased with say eastern Saudi Arabia.

India gets to keep Gilgit-Baltistan, so-called "Azad Kashmir", Chitral, another 20 km across the international border sans population, and the western Thar desert (Tharparkar ). A big portion of Baluchistan could be made independent, just as Sindh too can become independent with Pakjab a land-locked state.

Of course there are scenarios where India can be even more ambitious.

However if carving up Pakistan is on the table and all three parties are well-armed, then it should all be possible. Paki Army cannot fight on three fronts, where each front has its own brutal quality.

Challenge is to make Afghanistan more ambitious and better armed in a similar way they used to be earlier. Also the temperature should be increased gradually, maximum reaching over the course of 2 years.

Whole of Pakistan is a low-hanging mango, with a cowardly and useless army.

ramana
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 17 May 2017 01:14

I expounded on this with another member yesterday.

It's a long war and each: 1947, 1965, 1971, 1989 to 2003 and present are battles in this war. First was Battle of Kashmir. It settled accession and that Pakistan occupied Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan. 1965 was Battle Of Punjab. It showed India will cross International Borders in self defence of Kashmir. 1971 was Battle of East Pakistan. It led to creation of Bangladesh and 93000 POWs. Same number at Battle of Stalingrad in WWII. 1989 to 2003 is Second Battle of Kashmir. It established India will finish off Pakistan. Now we are in Third and hopefully last Battle of Kashmir. If NaMo wins this it ends Pakistan. So we need to understand and support him.

SriJoy
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby SriJoy » 17 May 2017 01:27

RajeshA wrote:3-Way Distribution of Spoils of War Solution

The one thing Political Islam really understands is making war, raiding and robbing others of their treasure. So why not use that to our advantage?

What stops India, Afghanistan and even Iran to wage war on Pakistan, if each one of them is promised a chunk of the territory of Pakistan?!

Let's say Afghanistan gets Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA. Iran could be accommodated with some part of Baluchistan or could be appeased with say eastern Saudi Arabia.

India gets to keep Gilgit-Baltistan, so-called "Azad Kashmir", Chitral, another 20 km across the international border sans population, and the western Thar desert (Tharparkar ). A big portion of Baluchistan could be made independent, just as Sindh too can become independent with Pakjab a land-locked state.

Of course there are scenarios where India can be even more ambitious.

However if carving up Pakistan is on the table and all three parties are well-armed, then it should all be possible. Paki Army cannot fight on three fronts, where each front has its own brutal quality.

Challenge is to make Afghanistan more ambitious and better armed in a similar way they used to be earlier. Also the temperature should be increased gradually, maximum reaching over the course of 2 years.

Whole of Pakistan is a low-hanging mango, with a cowardly and useless army.



Whats stopping Pakistan from going on a nuke-spree to Kabul, Tehran, Delhi, Mumbai, etc ? Pakistan doesn't care about its own people, its all about the land-owning & military elites. If they face a coalition war, which they will certainly lose, they have then nothing left to lose- hence, nuclear war.
Until we can have an effective counter to nuclear ballistic missiles, i don't see how we can dismember Pakistan without taking massive nuclear losses ourselves.

ArjunPandit
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 May 2017 03:19

RajeshA wrote:3-Way Distribution of Spoils of War Solution

Posts like these should come in our MSM from our Anal-ists and hog the limelight rather than the R&D of sunita bhabhi

ramana
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 17 May 2017 03:40

RajeshA, Please tweet the message.

ArjunPandit
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 May 2017 03:50

SriJoy wrote:Whats stopping Pakistan from going on a nuke-spree to Kabul, Tehran, Delhi, Mumbai, etc ? Pakistan doesn't care about its own people, its all about the land-owning & military elites. If they face a coalition war, which they will certainly lose, they have then nothing left to lose- hence, nuclear war.
Until we can have an effective counter to nuclear ballistic missiles, i don't see how we can dismember Pakistan without taking massive nuclear losses ourselves.


destruction of lands grabbed in the land of punjab and whatever pakistan is today. Most likely they would try to cut deals to get asylum in western capitals and be part of paki elite waiting to return when the time is ripe or retain their holdings in post pakistan power games.
The point I am making is we must recognize that for the long term benefit of India, there will be huge losses and if we are unwilling to take them, then we should simply forget the dream of even being a regional power (forget about the Indian superpower).
OT: Seat on high table/Superpower status is not granted or bequeathed, it is earned, earned at a cost. US/UK/Russia paid for it in WW2 by bearing the brunt of Germans (Russia loss over 10% of its population), stabilizing Europe, Financing other wars. We did not follow through the '71 war and just got content by solving the problem of years that went by and not of that day or of future.
I have a strong suspicion that majority of their Nukes are tactical or low yield, given their lack of mastery on Pu based weapons.

For the sake of argument, even if Pakis decide to Nuke all three, the questions that come up then are
1. do they have enough nukes and more importantly delivery mechanisms to nuke all three, especially Umma Bro: Iran?
2. What will they nuke in Afghanistan? Tora Bora? Jalalabad, Kabul?
3. Will china be an onlooker in the great game/fight of the subcontinent, in her own backyard and with her biggest munna? if they throw it in water that means all the money and their H&D is flushed down.
4. What will be the role of US. We are yet to see the big shift in US towards pakistan. Soldiers who fought in Afghanistan, when they reach pentagon (if some of them haven't already), will be itching for a payback.
Given the current situation, India should start separate the Chabahar port and the highway separate from its US relationship and link it with a presence in Afghanistan. Just like last time, only Indians and no outside power can bring peace and order in Afghanistan.

ramana
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 18 May 2017 21:12

Couple of X-Posts....


ramana wrote:
sum wrote:^^ Sometimes find it hard to make it if this site is BR or US-Rakshak or Russ-Rakshak.
Seems its always easier to find a US PoV or Russian PoV than the Indian PoV in many of these foreign policy threads!!

Truth is always in the middle where the facts are.
There will always be a point of view supporting one side or the other in even simple matters.

And this is complex.
The best way is to steer keeping in mind what is in India's interests.

All these axis run through Pakistan.

I think foreclosing Pakistan is best option for India as Eurasia emerges.



and

Philip wrote:"I think foreclosing Pakistan is best option for India as Eurasia emerges." Spot on R! After all the4se wasted years of futile diplomacy with Pak,nothing has changed .As the French say,"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"(the more things change, the more they stay the same).

Therefore I too some time ago came to the same conclusion that the destruction of the state of Pak as it exists now ,you've used a polite word, "foreclosure" instead, must be part of our grand strategy. From the Simla agreement between Mrs. G and Zulfie B,ABV's "bus diplomcy" (repayed with Kargil by Mush-a-rat),Snake-OIl's Baluchistan bonanza for Pak,to Mr.Modi's B'day visit to Nawaz S,every Indian gesture of peace and reconciliation to Pak has been returned by a savage barbaric brutality that no nation that has the slightest claim to be civilised behaves in such fashion. The only language that the Pakis understand in a sharp bayonet up their backside. It was delivered in '48,'65,71,and lastly at Kargil .The Pakis,esp. those in uniform ,now with a maniacal chief in charge, have short memories. It is past time for another dose to be administered. India has to first prepare thoroughly as FM Sam M did and beef up its forces accordingly.
The first decision is to dramatically increase the def. budget to between 3-4% ,covert ops to start and increaae in scale, long with a diplomatic campaign for Baluchi independence,etc.,etc. Preventing Afghanistan from going the paki way is suicidal to India. Mr.M should thrash it out with Putin that the Taliban are nothing more than the Paki ISI in mufti and that we will protect our interests in Af-Pak even if it means going against Russian ones. We have to call a spade a spade.

Despite our wish to diversify our def. supplies, Russia is the only nation that gives us top-of-the-line eqpt. at reasonable cost (MKIs, BMos, Akula subs,S-400s,etc.) Mr.Modi should use this visit to firm up on critical needs of the 3 services which can be obtained from Russia asap, so that we will as early as possible be able to decide when to give Pak its next lesson militarily.

ramana
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 18 May 2017 21:13

Philip, Not only that it opens up Central Asia etc and many, many things.

Agnimitra
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Agnimitra » 19 May 2017 04:54

RajeshA wrote:3-Way Distribution of Spoils of War Solution

The one thing Political Islam really understands is making war, raiding and robbing others of their treasure. So why not use that to our advantage?

What stops India, Afghanistan and even Iran to wage war on Pakistan, if each one of them is promised a chunk of the territory of Pakistan?!

The part where Islam also forbids allying with an unbeliever against fellow believers. We can drum up prophesy that Pakistan is part of the End of Times 'Dajjal'. Popular eschatologists and BS'ers like Sheikh Imran Hossein is already doing that w.r.t. the Ottomans and neo-Ottoman Turkey. People like him want to see Eastern Orthodox Russia pulled into the war against Dajjal UK+US. Similarly, we need to show that 'Hind o Sind' of Ghazwa-e-Behind is in fact Pakjab and Muhajir Karachi.

chola
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby chola » 19 May 2017 11:26

Oh stop it. We are not so soft that RAW had not tried to break apart TSP in some fashion after three wars with the porkis. Of course, we have tried over the decades.

It is obviously not easy to do. Just as simply overwhelming the SOBs and driving them off the POK is not. Otherwise, we would have done it already.

They are an intractable pile of shit that got even more intractable since we both declared Nooks and went into MAD state.

It is what it is.

But if Cheen is allowed in behind the paki defenses by the Pakis themselves in their desperation, then I am all for it. I am all for chinis throwing away their money into a failed pit of a nation like Paki-stan.

BUT if the PRC succeeds and Pakistan is Han-ified and its people started to eat pork, use chopsticks, wear skinny jeans and maybe worry more about trade and business than reciting shit from the middle ages over and over again wouldn't that be a good thing?

Yagnasri
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Yagnasri » 19 May 2017 13:04

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 745668.cms

See the comments, there is always a traitor in pak who is responsible to whatever they suffer. No wrong doing is done in any case.

ramana
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 19 May 2017 22:00

Chola, Are you drinking same tea as MMS before Shameless Sheikh?

chola
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby chola » 20 May 2017 02:40

ramana wrote:Chola, Are you drinking same tea as MMS before Shameless Sheikh?


I'm drinking some form of tea with a chini wife. But she being ABC means the tea is Lipton rather than Oolong onlee.

If we could break Pakistan apart any more we would have done so by now. Three hot wars meant no holds were barred yet Pakistan minus Bangladesh is still here with us.

So if pakiland cannot be broken then why begrudge the chinis the chance at this failed state? It not like we could do anything more than what we have already done. Fail or success by the PRC, it would be better than what we have now.

Yes, if the chinks succeed the dhoti shiverers among us would cry we would be "encircled" but what the fvck does that actually mean? The PRC itself is encircled by hostile states with real bases and hardware not phantom shit like "string of pearls."

brvarsh
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby brvarsh » 20 May 2017 04:35

Pakistan has already indicated what shape it is going to be in once they are officially failed - Chinese would guard their nuclear arsenal, part of economically viable land will be under Chinese control with a few Generals and Politicians becoming richer, the poor part of the society will be heading for some form of Jihad against someone.


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