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Managing Pakistan's failure

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member_28797
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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby member_28797 » 09 Nov 2014 06:54

Why do mullas here don't talk about gulping a majority of pakistan back in India? What are the logistics of kicking all the paki population to a little island in pakistan and taking over the land that rightly belongs to us?

Given that pakistan and bangladesh was created to send Indian muslims there and given that 80% of them remained in India, what's the point of giving away 40% of Indian land for free without any benefit in return?
It's the next big frontier we must achieve. The sickular-marxist brigade has created the fear of maintaing a "peaceful but strong" India that doesn't retaliate even when it is attacked and even when heaps of injustices are committed on to it. While pakistan is the eternal victim even after killing minority Hindus/Sikhs/Christians living in pakistan. Further degradation and manipulation of Indian cultural texts has been done to promote this "pissful" view. This shyness/fear is something we need to get to rid of, if we want to stand united in the future.

Any opinion on this matter?

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 10 Nov 2014 00:30

shiv wrote:If you look at the tactics adopted by the west (or even Pakistan) when it comes to troublesome areas of the world, the idea is usually to "bring stability" by installing a puppet government. The US had the Shah of Iran as a puppet; they tried to install a puppet in Vietnam; hey had Marcos in the Phillippines. Pakistan itself had a puppet in the Taliban inside Afghanistan

The unique feature of Pakistan was that the army acted effectively as a US puppet earning them lasting US gratitude and tens of billions in aid.

So when I say that I would like to see a chaotic, infighting, poor, disease riven state next door I could be asked why it would not be better to copy the tactics used by states over centuries and try and install a puppet government in Pakistan. The main reason is that leaders of people cannot simply be conjured up. Puppets can be installed but they will soon be deposed or dethroned because they are puppets. The other problem is that currently the Pakistan army is a puppet of the US (and China) and the Islamists who fight the army are against the US and India.

To repeat what I have said many times
1. The Pakistan army and its own Islamist puppets are wholly ant India and are not anti-US or China
2. Splinter groups of Islamists are anti US, anti-China and anti India

If you were an American planner which would you prefer?
If you were an Indian planner which would you prefer?


One of the reasons, the West is fully satisfied with a puppet government is because the West doesn't really have any stake either in bringing any durable change to a region, especially not in raising the standard of living of that region. The country has to raise its standard of living on its own. Often with puppet regimes in non-Western, non-European places like Indian Subcontinent, Middle-East, Africa or South America, the regime is there only to act as a middle-man, get military or political support from the West, some dole, and on the other hand suck the blood of the country itself. The West gets what it wants. The puppet regime gets what it wants. The people of the country however are short-changed. Now sitting far away, how the people get along, really doesn't interest the West/USA.

However a Pakistan full of Jihadis next door is very much of concern to India and Indians. For us it remains a security concern.

In a broken up Pakistan consisting of 4-5 parts, where their international concerns are only distribution of Indus River waters, transit facilities for land-locked countries, border demarcation and cross-border terrorism and crime, the governments would hardly be so vociferous about Hindu India. So in that scenario, India should not be averse to having puppet regimes in post-Pakistan countries.

However that itself is not a solution, just a facilitator for a solution. It is not as if the eyes of the ex-Pakistanis would divert from rich India lying next door to them.

A final solution would have to be to exorcise the Arab Bhoot out of them.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Prem » 10 Nov 2014 01:10

Simply Nuke them , take the losses now and recover, control, occupy the territory. Just the glimpse of this strategy will give Poaqleccas sleepless nights. In fact simple retaliation at LOC have given them the jitters. Their impotent anger and fear is there in open for everyone to see. Time to take initiative and take control of agenda which i think new political dispensation in India will do right after J& K election. change of narrative, agenda along with growing economic strength and military power will nullify all the malicious facetious Poaqlicious policies of past by many of the antagonists who themselves are now fearing,feeling the stings of poisonous paki. Pehle Karro Paki Nanga, Then start the Panga,Phir Nikalo , Ghusao, nikalo Danda , Tubb Banege yeh Gaddhe, Baanda.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby vishvak » 10 Nov 2014 01:14

+100 Jhujar ji. We should finish off troubles at their roots. The only reason Hindus are not running across Hindu kush like Yazidis on Sinjar mountain is because we have defeated the pakis, though temporarily.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby member_28797 » 10 Nov 2014 01:20

Many of the so-called patriots on this forum itself were shitting their pants during the border shelling incident. Reminding us dumb yindoos to fear the atim bum. Some were back on India-paki bhai-bhai rhetoric and some were saying that a peaceful stance is better. Expect the country getting GUBO'd again and again till people like this remain in our "civil (read coward)" society.

It's funny that a country as pathetic as pakistan with no govt., no economy and no reason of existence is feared and treated as an equal by Indians. pakis are nowhere close to being equal to us, they still live in 7th century and they will live there for a long time to come. I, for one am fed up of this constant tolerance towards these terrorists and their sympathizers here at home.


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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 12 Nov 2014 19:14

vijaykarthik ji,

just a request. Please put in some headline, some text to describe the link you are sharing.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby KLNMurthy » 12 Nov 2014 21:42

vishvak wrote:+100 Jhujar ji. We should finish off troubles at their roots. The only reason Hindus are not running across Hindu kush like Yazidis on Sinjar mountain is because we have defeated the pakis, though temporarily.

We need a Department of WMD Survival And Reconstruction directly under the PM. Creating that department and budgeting for it will send the correct message. Or it could be a Constitutional Body like Election Commission, created by Parliament.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Prem » 12 Nov 2014 21:56

KLNMurthy wrote:
vishvak wrote:+100 Jhujar ji. We should finish off troubles at their roots. The only reason Hindus are not running across Hindu kush like Yazidis on Sinjar mountain is because we have defeated the pakis, though temporarily.We need a Department of WMD Survival And Reconstruction directly under the PM. Creating that department and budgeting for it will send the correct message. Or it could be a Constitutional Body like Election Commission, created by Parliament.


I think this issue was discussed few months back. India needs to start making large scale shelters to be used in Nuclear war scenario. In fact every new huge construction project from now on should ne designed keeping this emergency usage in mind. This will send Paki & BoyfrienBaki in tizzy. BRF folks should start spreading the good news on evry paki wateing hole that Indians intend to do Annu Parhar to make Paki.Chaar.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby SBajwa » 13 Nov 2014 02:31

I think this issue was discussed few months back. India needs to start making large scale shelters to be used in Nuclear war scenario.


1. Large scale shelters shielded with water in each city.
2. Water/Food/medicine/etc hoarding for at least 3 months.
3. Enough weapons and gasoline holding.
4. power generation and communications with outside.
5. Pakistan yet cannot simply nuke the whole of India so once Nuke war is over the people living in Surviving cities must rescue the people from the vicinity of the nuked cities.
and so forth!

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby vinod » 17 Nov 2014 15:24

US's interest in Pakistan is losing steam pretty quickly. Their only interest in them is the Al Qaeda's leadership sheltered by Pakistan. Pak had dreamt of controlling middle east using Al Qaeda and now that has gone up in smoke, thanks to Islamic State.

So, that leaves Pakistan rushing into arms of China. China gaining land access to Arabian Sea is of great strategic consequence to us and them. So, at all costs, Pakistan should be broken up into smaller parts. The majority of the smaller parts should be made friendly to India. At least, cost to sustain them should be increased dramatically for their sponsors. I think China would be the only one rushing in. With oil price going down, Saudi\Gulf states would be hard-pressed to come to aid too much.

Nuclear proliferation is a thing which west fear and India should be ensuring they have a big stake in taking care of that threat. Jihadist should be told that they can take on India anytime but the great satan , US, can be taken care only once. This will force the west to take care of the nuclear disarmament of a disintegrating Pakistan.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 23 Nov 2014 17:00

Cross-posting from "http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=1755458#p1755458" Thread

Who actually is keeping Pakistan together? It is USA and the West. All those countries which the West doesn't like can fall apart, except nations which have a strong backbone, like India.

Countries like Yugoslavia (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia...) , Indonesia (East Timor), Serbia (Kosovo), Sudan (South Sudan), ... have been split after UN came into being, while others are being held together, because the West wants it so, e.g. Pakistan, Iraq, etc..

I know that West and Sunnis (GCC, Egypt, Pakistan, ...) are bosom buddies of USA-UK, but I wonder if Pakistan starts bedding Russia, whether things can change!

Pakistan has often made the case that it should be part of Russia-China axis against West, because despite its love-affair with USA, Pakistan also shares the Islamic hate for USA!

In which case, cozying up to Russia, can just be what could trigger the idea in the West, to let it disintegrate under its own weight! And despite having a military relationship with Russia, Russia would be all to glad to let Pakistan disappear from the Map.

Secondly Pakistan may feel that there are better chances of Russia grandfathering a North-South Oil+Gas Pipeline from Russia to India, or an Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline than USA. This way TSPA can sit tight and enjoy the cash flowing into its coffers without needing to do anything - just sitting back and see its bank-balance go up, with an extra power to stop such transmission when it wants. With Ghani now in charge of Afghanistan, Pakistan may not feel threatened by India.

With USA winding down its operations in the region, and its need for Pakistan decreasing at least as far as that aspect of its reliance on Pakistan goes, perhaps Pakistan may indeed be sensing that its money from USA may be winding down, and it needs to explore new horizons.

If Pakistan does make a substantial tilt towards Russia, then USA may not feel beholden to it at all and may even decide to punish it, that means coming in support of any plans India makes in taking Pakistan apart.

So Pakistan can overplay its hand!

No amount of Chinese billions can really save Pakistan. There Pakistan can be a black-hole. Russia may be interested in some deliverables - drugs, Chechens, pipeline, etc. but Russia would not be going out of its way in stopping Pakistan's disintegration.

So Pakistan moving towards Russia may not necessarily be a bad deed for us!

What Modi needs USA to understand is that it is best that Pakistan disintegrates.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby vishvak » 23 Nov 2014 17:06

We need to declare open season for any country who wants to bomb paki terrorists, full support structure needs to be offered. Paki's 4fathers must be told that there can't be different standards for different nations.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 24 Nov 2014 00:28

Cross-posted from "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 10 Oct 2014" Thread

India should make Badmash the Yelzin of Pakistan!

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby KrishnaK » 24 Nov 2014 03:04

RajeshA wrote: Who actually is keeping Pakistan together? It is USA and the West. All those countries which the West doesn't like can fall apart, except nations which have a strong backbone, like India.
Pakistan is a pretty viable country. Like Bangladesh is. Even after having forgone Islam as the basis for it's nationality Bangladesh is doing well. Both Pakistan and Bangladesh have a behemoth India on their borders, but one that is friendly and professes no animosity to the existence of these two countries. Unlike propaganda put here. If Pakistan were to let go of it's ideology it'll prosper just fine.

What Modi needs USA to understand is that it is best that Pakistan disintegrates.
What you need to understand is that a disintegrating Pakistan is far far far worse than one we have at present. Disintegrating doesn't mean vanishing.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby UlanBatori » 24 Nov 2014 03:26

At the time of Partition Pakistan was called the "Laboratory of Islam".


This is an understandable misunderstanding arising from the nuances of Bakistani Bronuncication, arising from failure to understand Pingreji. The real name was

Labhatory of Ijlam
which means "pakistan" in Pakjabi.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Kashi » 24 Nov 2014 16:36

KrishnaK wrote:Even after having forgone Islam as the basis for it's nationality Bangladesh is doing well.


That's hardly true, Bangladesh has not and has never foregone Islam at its core. They remain strongly wedded to Islamic values while retaining a soft shell of Bangla nationalism. The predominance of Islam in their day to day running is beyond doubt or question and unlike Pakis, they

a. Do not have multitude of sizable ethinicities at loggerheads with each other.
b. Do not have festering territorial disputes with neighbours, especially one like Afghanistan which refuses to accept large chunks of their territory as theirs.
c. Have the luxury of exporting their excess abduls across the border and enjoy the economic and social benefits, an option not available to Pakis.

Thus, they do not need the in-your-face brand of Islam.

At the end of it, non-muslims have little to cheer in Bangladesh

What you need to understand is that a disintegrating Pakistan is far far far worse than one we have at present. Disintegrating doesn't mean vanishing.


Care to elaborate why?

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 02 Dec 2014 04:26

X-Post....
viewtopic.php?p=1758545#p1758545

Raja Ram wrote:Decoding Signals from the Noise - The Need to think a bit differently!

Gentle readers of the forum. I do believe that the famed "ahead of the curve" BRF is slowing down. Hence thought it is time for another ramble from yours truly can gently point out to certain facts and trends amidst the noise. A better signal to noise ratio, should ensure that our collective thinking is more focussed.

So in that spirit, it would be pertinent to point out a few interesting trends of the last few months since a new GoI dispensation took over

1. A far more integrated approach to National Security across all its dimensions i.e. Geo-political, Economic, Military, Socio-Cultural and Science & technology has been adopted. Evidence of the same is there to see if only we pick up the signals. The Inner Mandala (immediate neighborhood) being engaged, Act East, Engagement with Paki sponsor states in a new manner, revving up economic engine, Make in India, Cleansing of institutions, drawing up a plan for rapid military industrial complex building, intel up gradation, border areas being focused for development etc

2. A clear demonstration of National interest being reinforced be it with WTO negotiations or taking an offensive defence action against pakistani entity in the latest standoff, or standing our ground against Chinese bala pariksha during their President's visit

3. The clear acceptance that things have change in India by the western power elite, in terms of the long queues to get Modi to their country, from the USG's attempt to mend fences, to Australian and British efforts to reset their relationship with Modi. Not to mention, the almost daily wailing across Pakistani channels about how India is way ahead and how they are getting to be irrelevant.

4. The willingness on the part of GoI to engage the diaspora and integrate the vast presence and influence that they represent into articulation of Indian power projection. The positive response that this has evoked and very visible changes in processes and government attitude to them shows another intent. That India is ready to take on the responsibility towards them and work towards being a global player.

5. The very clear signals that the PM has made to the rest of South Asian region - offering them a choice and chance. They have all been clearly told to make a stand in terms of building a region that is open, sensitive to each others interests and becoming more integrated. That is the choice that they have been asked to make. In terms of chance, by electing to be aligned with the overarching Indian vision of an integrated region, the neighbors will be allowed to partake in the economic resurgence and growth of India. They will be able to get Indian capital, expertise, access Indian infrastructure.

These five mega trends are pretty obvious. What does it therefore portend to the artificial entity called Pakistan and its international benefactors?

1. First and foremost, India will act without recourse to any other consideration to any other power, to protect its national interest. Any Pakistani misadventure will be dealt with a composite response that will inflict disproportionate pain. It has already been demonstrated. Their backers in terms of the US and its allies, the Saudis and the Chinese are now very aware that India will not be acting in a purely defensive defense manner any more.

2. The survival of the artificial entity called Pakistan will be left to themselves. India will not do anything in terms of throwing a life line to this entity or a set of the power elite that controls that entity to ensure its survival. Indeed, should the entity or the power elite there continue to act against Indian security or export terror, India will retaliate and ensure everything possible is done to hasten the implosion.

3. Indian position with regard to Pakistan will not be based on any notions of what it will mean to Indian Muslims or potential fault lines that it might breach internally in India. There is a clear departure of sub-conscious linking of Indian Muslims to the problem that the artificial entity called Pakistan poses to us. No longer will the GOI be shackled by those imaginary chains.

The above messages are being increasingly understood by the Pakistanis as well as their benefactors, as they are not mere posturing but what they see as action on the ground by India. It is another matter that the biggest benefactor of the artificial entity called Pakistan, the USA, the sole super power is finding it increasingly difficult to maintain or control events in the rentier state. It is a reflection of the slow erosion in their capacity to use their still unsurpassed power and capabilities at the altar of geo-political constraints. What is not noticed or given any recognition and acknowledgement is the new found clarity of purpose and unity in action on the part of GOI. Even less understood is the full geo-strategic impact of the General Elections and what it has meant in terms of expression of National Will by the people of India. This has been a true "Black Swan" moment that should be understood.

If these basic signals or understood, we can understand that the coming decade will be one that will change the region in many ways as yet unimagined.

So gentle rakshaks, I do hope that this little ramble will set us all thinking a bit differently and act a bit differently. For after all, as I keep saying, the toughest shackles to break are the ones in our minds.

Just a ramble as usual take it for what it is worth!

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby schinnas » 02 Dec 2014 12:27

RajeshA wrote:So Pakistan moving towards Russia may not necessarily be a bad deed for us!

What Modi needs USA to understand is that it is best that Pakistan disintegrates.


Right on! In fact except for some tactical considerations such as Pakis getting access to the same Russian weapon systems IA uses and as a result, better awareness of the limitations and capabilities that they might not already know, it is one of the best things to have happened. Given the anti-Putin rage in Washington, Pukis hobnobbing with Russia can be the last staw that breaks the US-Puki alliance camel's back. The timing is perfect with US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

We need to ensure that while Russia is allowed to play with Pakistan for sometime, they do not do anything detrimental to India's interests and remain our close trusted ally and take India into confidence on any non trivial security related dealings with Pukis.

India has in Doval just the right person at the right time. The time has come to wind up the failed experiment called Pukistan.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 30 Dec 2014 18:29

What ails the people trapped in Pakistan?

Cross-posting from "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - 12 Dec 2014" Thread

Why are Pushtun so poor? Because Pushtuns have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Baluchis so poor? Because Baluchis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Sindhis so poor? Because Sindhis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Gilgitians so poor? Because Gilgitians have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

Why are Baltistanis so poor? Because Baltistanis have no access to Indian economy. Pakjabis won't allow them that access.

It is only as independent states or states within the Indian Union, that these people would be able to latch on to the growing Indian economy and progress. If they don't liberate themselves from Pakjabi imperialism, they would remain poor. Bangladeshis did it and so they are progressing.

Poor Pushtuns, poor Baluchis, poor Sindhis, poor Gilgitians, poor Baltistanis! How long should they remain under the shoe of Pakjab!

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 13 Apr 2015 13:25

Saudi Dilemma and a Way Out

Bakis being Baki would always do Bakipanti.

Bakis know that Iran is now officially out of the dog-house, and again enjoys the favors of the Goras & Chinnis. So Bakis are again salivating at the prospect of "strategic depth" and cutting off India from any route into Central Asia and Afghanistan.

The salivation is now by bucket-full, because Pakis think, with China and Iran, they can have their own private playing room in Central Asia.

Let's not forget, Pakjabis main nightmare is Pushtuns descending on them in the middle of the night, and cutting off their heads with blunt knives or blowing up their kids in schools.

Pakis, in their mind, simply have to curtail Indian access to Afghanistan and beyond, and to continue to demand heavy rent from Amreeka for it.

Iran may not be a party able to or inclined to create instability for Paki Army, but India certainly is, but India needs Iranian help on that. Pakis do not wish Iranians giving India such access, so Pakis cannot really afford to declare themselves in an anti-Iranian coalition, which it virtually would be if Pakis opt to go and hit Houthis in Yemen.

Usually Bakis simply rent out their soldiers, but that is meant either for some short-beard dedicated pilots and other high-skills military staff or the usually long-beard yahoos to go and do mercenary work. All that is covert, small scale and Pakis can hide any official stamp on it.

For Yemen however, Saudis are demanding an official big-scale ground troops deployment. That is just not Baki style! Saudis are saying you've been paid, and are our poodles, and Pakis are saying that that was just zakat for the impoverished masses of Bakiland.

The Saudis were creating a Sunni powerhouse to the east of the Persians, for just the day, when they may need it to save the asses of the Sheikhs. Now the Sheikhs of Arabia find out that there is no Sunni loyalty which goes beyond the tribe! It is an important lesson!

Problem for Sauds is that the other Sunni powers, i.e. Turkey, Pakistan and to some extent Egypt have their own agendas. Turkey still wants to recreate a Caliphate under its power. Pakistanis would always look for where they get their next rent and how to hit India. Egypt would always feel envious of Arab riches, which it does not have.

All these Sunni powers are more than happy to see the Sauds and other Sheikhs go down, which allows them to get more influence in the Ummah, perhaps even with some additional official political hold over the two mosques.

Saudis are finding out that more Salafism, more Wahhabism in the world does not translate necessarily into more support for the Sheikhs. On the contrary, it only creates more power centers, which salivate at the thought of getting their hands on the Oil and the two mosques.

What Saudis need are cheap Sunni rent boys, who jump on their command, have little in form of own political agendas, and do not make excuses when they are called. Bakjabi Army at the moment do not seem to be fulfilling their intended role.

In the medium term, i.e. if Saudis survive the upcoming war on the Arabian Peninsula, Saudis may rethink about how Pakistan needs to be transformed so that it plays the poodle role better. Would a Bakistan not dreaming of "strategic depth" be a better rent boy? Would a Pushtun rule over Bakistan be a better alternative to those pesky Persianized-Mughali Pakjabi Faujis?

Pakistan has become Iran's strategic depth in this case!

Saudi Arabia and India should talk about Baloch freedom and perhaps being part of India, and cutting Pakistan to size.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 20 Apr 2015 14:27

Saudi Dilemma and a Way Out (Cont.)

Cross-posting from "West Asia News and Discussions" Thread

ldev's post

ldev wrote:The Arabs are controllable, the Iranians are not. A weak India sided with Iran, because it was far too weak to control the Arabs, the West has found it easier to control the Arabs than the Iranians. A strong India will find it easier to control the Arabs than a less predictable Iran which has its own agenda. So India has to look beyond the immediate Pakistan problem and develop a strong equation with the Sunni Arabs. A strong India will find it easier to neutralize the Sunni Arab-Pakistan equation besides increasing its influence in the wider Middle East. One of India's biggest strength in the region is its reputation for not interfering in the internal affairs of each country unlike a fellow Muslim country, even one such as Pakistan but especially countries such as Egypt, Jordan etc which will try and influence internal developments. For that to successfully happen, India has to be able to become a net provider of security in the region with a matching economy and armed forces capability.

China, because of its economy and Russia because of its arms exports will always have more influence over Iran compared to India, not that either China or Russia will be able to ultimately dictate the direction of Iranian policy. India's soft power in the Gulf on the other hand gives it a unique advantage there. That has to supplemented by hard power to ensure continuing access to energy.


Also Iran's Grand Strategy


I would like to do a reevaluation of my/our current thinking on this.

Over the years, I have often favored a more Indo-Iranian rapprochement based on ancient cultural bonds, but if one really thinks about it, our relations with Iran have mostly been one of tension, from the Avestan period to the Mughal period to Ayatollah period. Sure the Arabs were interested in some puritanical version of Islam, and such ulema did adorn the courts of Islamic rulers in India, but the political Islamic colonization of India has been at the hands of Turks and Afghans riding on Iranian cultural and imperial memes.

Iranians in some ways see Pakistan as its cultural depth and in fact as the sword arm with which to expand eastwards. One just needs to see the level of support Pakistan received from the Shah of Iran, e.g. during 1971 war or for that matter Islamic regime's interference in Kashmir politics. The Arabs on the other hand have never attacked India, except for the brief campaign by Muhammad bin Qasim in Sindh, and often it had to do with their politics against Persians.

So I think, Indian wish to ally with Iran is actually a mirage!

Arabs, I feel, have two interests in the Indian Subcontinent - Islamization, because that is what they do and Sunnization for curtailing Iranian influence and trying to build up reserves who can support Arabs against the Persians.

The Yemen conflict is again bringing it to Arab awareness, that Sunnism alone would not save the day viz-a-viz Iranians. Neither the Turks nor the Persians see each other as enemies, but in fact see themselves as joint-partners to define Central and Sooth Asia, and look upon Arabs as weak and worthy of disposal. Turks want to establish a neo-Ottoman Empire, with control over Hejaz while Iranians may not be disinterested in a neo-Mughal Empire. So Turks as a Sunni power is not really helping the Arabs versus the Iranians. In fact Turks may be trying to making itself the predominant power in the region. First Turks tried to put Muslim Brotherhood in charge of Egypt and now they may be trying to buy out ISIS from the Gulf Arabs.

For Arabs, the alliance of Gulf countries with America is also coming undone after the approaching P5+1-Iran agreement, where USA may not support Gulf countries to the same extent against Iran. Nor can China really give the Gulf countries what they want, simply because China is more interested in securing Central Asia in cooperation with Iran than really interested in Sunni control over Arab lands.

Why is Iran actually Shia? I would say to underline its independence from Gulf Arabs. If the Gulf Arabs are beaten through a joint Turk-Iranian venture, and do not have the resources anymore to project their influence into the Indian Subcontinent, and India falls to Islam, as per the thinking of Iranians, then there is no real reason for Iranians to cling on to Shi'ism. If Sunnis take over Indian Subcontinent and reestablish the neo-Mughal Empire, then Iran would be more than willing to dump Shi'ism the same day, become Sunni and try to take over the reigns of such a neo-Mughal Empire. The DNA of Iran is more imperialist than Islamic, I think.

Gulf Arabs need a Sunni Pakistan first and foremost to checkmate Iran on Iran's eastern border, to stop a neo-Mughalistan emerging first as Iran-Pakistan combo and then expanding eastwards and westwards. So the Sunnization drive in Pakistan by Gulf Arabs is directed against Iran. Military strengthening of Pakistan by the Arabs was simply to receive military aid from Pakis when the need arises. Gulf Arab support to Pakistan is not directed primarily against India but against Iran. Yemen conflict is telling the Gulf Arabs, that that investment in Pakistan is not paying off sufficiently.

India's problem with Pakistan is not the level of Sunnization or Islamization of Pakistan. It is not about how green Pakistan is. Our problem with Pakistan is really that it has an imperialist center (Pindi) as well, just like there is one in Turkey and Iran.

A fully Talibanized Pakistan is not the problem for India. However a fully armed Pakistan is, because then it starts getting uppity and imperialist.

But 3½ friends of Pakistan have been continuously arming Pakistan, and that creates a difficulty for India. What India wants is the breakdown of the imperialist military center in Pakistan, and not necessarily some form of Islamic moderation. That is uninteresting!

So how to achieve it? I think we need to turn at least one of Pakistan's friends against it! It can be China, Gulf Arabs or USA. Indians have for decades hoped that USA would dump Pakistan. Some thought that common values between USA and India would lead to this. Others thought that the deaths of thousands of American troops at the hands of Pakistan-supported proxies would help USA to change its mindset. That is not going to be the case.

China would not dump Pakistan simply because of geopolitics in Asia. Our primary foe is China and they too know it.

Question is can the Gulf Arabs dump Pakistan? Yemen is providing some possibilities.

The thing we should not care about the Islamization or rather Sunnization of Pakistan! If the Gulf Arabs want to throw more money into Pakistan to make more Sunni drones, then that should be okay with us, AS LONG AS there is no imperial military center in Pakistan to make use of them to wage war against India. Sunnization of Pakistan only acts as a check on Iranian influence.

Question is can the Gulf Arabs dump Pakistani Army?

We Indians know that Gulf Arabs can be very "flexible" regarding political alignments - with USA, with ISRAEL!!!

So here is one proposal!

Indian demands from Gulf Arabs:

  1. Stop Islamization in India - no more funding.
  2. Bangladesh should be left by the Gulf as India's "core interest"
  3. Free Baluchistan
  4. Help India take down Pakistan Army
  5. Support India's takeover of PoK
  6. Provide intelligence on any anti-Indian Islamic plans
  7. Gulf monarchies channel their money locked up elsewhere into Indian infrastructure

Here should be what India could offer the Gulf Arabs:
  1. All Paki military personnel are sent back from Gulf
  2. Indians take over as protectors of Gulf Arab monarchies
  3. Indians build a special Afghan Regiment in the Indian Army consisting of Sunnis, for protection of Gulf Arabs
  4. Gulf monarchies receive Indian nuclear umbrella, though secret

This is a far better scenario for Gulf Arab monarchies, than their current arrangement. Paki Army wants to play the Arabs against the Turks and Iranians. Why? Because of their Neo-Mughalistan dreams! India would not have any such reasons.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 30 Apr 2015 12:29

Saudi Dilemma and a Way Out (Cont.)

Cross-posting from "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22 2015" Thread

Jhujar wrote:
Falijee wrote:Is Pakistan pivoting away from Saudi Arabia? By Bruce ReidelBut, Saudis have nobody else to turn to either.


They do , Both Saudi and Gulf can be good Munna of India .


Jhujar ji,

absolutely. But we need Afghanistan to balance the equation.

The way to go about it is to have Afghanistan providing the fig leaf to Saudi Arabia, that they are receiving security help only from dyed in the wool, greener than the green Momeens, even as the whole military framework in which the Afghans provide security to Saudi Arabia is Made in India, fully integrated with the Indian military. India (and for the time being USA) can however provide air, naval and nuclear security to the Gulf Sheikhs.

Gulf countries are weak and willing to spend heavily to buy security from others. If Iranians get control over the Oil or Hejaz, they wouldn't be asking Indians for security. Iranians have their own imperial plans. Gulf Arabs don't, nor do they have the capacity nor the geographical reach.

Afghans and Saudi-controlled Taliban on the one side and India on the other can crack Pakistani Army like a walnut, and end Chinese strategic control over our Western boundary.

Everybody gets what one wants:
Gulf countries get
1) a secure Gulf, ostensibly supported by Sunni Afghans
2) more Sunnized Pakistani people, albeit without an Army, which can contain Iranian strategic depth in the East.

Afghanistan gets
1) More money from Gulf for providing security
2) Pakistan out of Pakhtunkhwa
3) End of Pakistani terrorism in Afghanistan

India gets
1) End of Pakistan
2) Free Access to Central Asia
3) China without naval bases in Indian Ocean or at the mouth of the Gulf
4) Major say in Islamization of Indian population

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 20 Aug 2015 16:45

Gulf - Changing Priorities

Crossposting from "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-July 10, 2015" Thread

Just listing the changes in the West Asia-Subcontinent politics:

1) Yemen imbroglio - GCC: Saudis, Emirates, Kuwaitis were extremely angry that their poodle Pakistan decided against jumping when ordered to do so by the Arabs. This amounted to treachery, after having munched on so many juicy bones provided by the Gulf countries to Pakistan - easy credit, somewhere safe to stash money, cheap oil, funding of nuclear program, etc. Pakistanis declined to assist the Saudis in their hour of need, when the skirmishes with Yemen started.

2) Iranian breakout - The sanctions against Iran are coming to an end. That means Iran can again play an enhanced active part in the political theater. Pakistan feels that its interests are more aligned with that of Iran, especially regarding securing Central Asia as a closed space for China, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and Russia, thus securing full control over Afghanistan, which Pakistan considers to be its backyard and denying India any access to Central Asia. Moreover Pakistan feels it can benefit from China, and for denying USA access, it can benefit from both China and Russia.

3) Chinese Corridor - Pakistan has also been promised $46 billion in Chinese investments especially for providing China with access to Gwadar port on the Indian Ocean.

4) Lashkar-e-Jhangvi clipped - Malik Ishaq, the leader of LeJ has been killed by Pakistan's security forces. This seems to be an unmistakable concession to Iran and Shias of Pakistan.

5) Taliban Control - Taliban has in the past also been under Pakistani control, but with the news of death of Mullah Omar, the nominal independence of Taliban's autonomy is also gone. Now Pakistan is officially the sugar daddy of Taliban, and those who want autonomy have been sidelined. Now Pakistan wants to control Afghanistan, despite moving away from single-minded Sunnite line. Possibly Pakistan desires sole control over Taliban, pushing out any Arab leanings and dependence of Taliban, read no more direction from Qatar.

6) Indo-UAE Accord - Since Pakistan has moved away from the Arab countries and thinks it can afford to move away from them, India has moved in to develop a broad-ranging security and economic relationship with them.

7) Houbara-Hunting Ban - The SC has chosen to put a ban on houbara hunting. As such such pranks and messages all sound at being of a childish level, but still Pakistan is willing to send these messages. There is not much in the form of official policy of Pakistan with which they can show their displeasure to Arab countries, but this seems like one way, harmless as it may sound. Though good for the Houbaras.

What all this means is that Pakistan is willing to move away from Arabs and move closer to Iranians and Turks, all under Chinese hegemony. Pakistan's priority remains control over Afghanistan and denial of access to Central Asia for India.

Since Pakistan's policy is determined by control over Afghanistan and access to Central Asia, it is exactly here that countries which feel cut out should focus their attention. It is here that the interests of USA, Gulf countries, Afghanistan and India converge. As long as Pakistan feels it is capable of denying access to Central Asia, it would tend to close ranks with Iran. It is this capability of Pakistan that needs to be taken away.

This means it is in interest of Arab countries, USA and India to ensure independence to Baluchistan or even Baluchistan's accession to India, in order to secure Baluchistan's independence from both Pakistan and Iran permanently. With loss of Baluchistan, both Gulf countries and USA would find, that Pakistan would be far more compliant to their wishes and policies.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Tuvaluan » 20 Aug 2015 18:24

RajeshA wrote:Since Pakistan's policy is determined by control over Afghanistan and access to Central Asia, it is exactly here that countries which feel cut out should focus their attention. It is here that the interests of USA, Gulf countries, Afghanistan and India converge.


That is incorrect -- USA has no interest in this either. That much should be obvious in their intent to fund PAkistan and its army and deliberately ensuring that they are enabled to create trouble in Afghanisthan and in J&K. In fact, it is the interests of USA and China that converge here, as was evident when the USA roped in China to deal in Afghanisthan but made sure India was kept out. US is part of the problem in this region, not part of the solution.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 20 Aug 2015 21:59

X-post...
SaiK wrote:http://www.dailyo.in/politics/terrorism-ajit-doval-india-pakistan-relations-sartaj-aziz-narendra-modi-isi-26-11-mumbai-attack-samjhauta-express-blast/story/1/5755.html

Are we ready to create 4 paki provinces into 4 new states? and put the state-less under the guns?
the chinese front must be engaged on economic might.. they must go down to struggle for investments. war is only a second option to china.



I would propose the four P provinces be made into 4 new Union Territory states under military governors for 30 years with extension to another 30 years in increments of ten years.


I had proposed this in the GDF threads for quite sometime.

viewtopic.php?p=709929#p709929

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 07 Nov 2015 17:28

Originally posted by johneeG in Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Sept 05, 2015 Thread

Interesting Idea:
We can`t do anything, if Modi, Altaf Hussian & Zardari nexus making Sindhudesh UDI - Pak analyst


This is crimea model.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2015 06:20

X-post..
Jhujar wrote:http://nation.com.pk/blogs/05-Dec-2015/how-balochistan-became-a-part-of-pakistan-a-historical-perspective
How Balochistan became a part of Pakistan – a historical perspective
This resulted in a communique on August 11, 1947, which stated that:
a. The Government of Pakistan recognizes Kalat as an independent sovereign state in treaty relations with the British Government with a status different from that of Indian States.
b. Legal opinion will be sought as to whether or not agreements of leases will be inherited by the Pakistan Government.
c. Meanwhile, a Standstill Agreement has been made between Pakistan and Kalat. ( Jinnah's old Trick)
d. Discussions will take place between Pakistan and Kalat at Karachi at an early date with a view to reaching decisions on Defence, External Affairs and Communications.

Referring to a telegram of October 17, 1947 from Grafftey-Smith, the Political Department, in a note on Pakistan-Kalat negotiations, says that Jinnah had second thoughts regarding the recognition of Kalat as an independent sovereign state, and was now desirous of obtaining its accession in the same form as was accepted by other rulers who joined Pakistan. The same note mentioned that an interesting situation is developing as Pakistan might accept the accession of Kalat’s two feudatories, Lasbela and Kharan.By October 1947, Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah had a change of heart on the recognition of Kalat as an “Independent and a Sovereign State”, and wanted the Khan to sign the same form of instrument of accession as the other states which had joined Pakistan. The Khan was unwilling to abandon the nominally achieved independent status but ready to concede on defence, foreign affairs and communications. However, he was unwilling to sign either a treaty or an Instrument, until and unless he had got a satisfactory agreement on the leased areas. Fears were also being voiced that officials of the Government of Pakistan might start dealing with the two feudatories of Las Bela and Kharan, and accept their de facto accession.By February 1948, the discussions between Kalat and the Government of Pakistan were coming to a head. The Quaid wrote to the Khan of Kalat: “I advise you to join Pakistan without further delay…and let me have your final reply which you promised to do after your stay with me in Karachi when we fully discussed the whole question in all its aspects.” On February 15, 1948, Jinnah visited Sibi, Baluchistan and addressed a Royal Durbar, where he announced that until the Pakistan Constitution is finally written in about two years’ time, he would govern the province with the help of an advisory council that he would nominate. However, the main reason for Jinnah’s visit was to persuade the Khan of Kalat to accede to Pakistan. As it transpired, the Khan failed to turn up for the final meeting with him, pleading illness. In his letter to Jinnah, he said that he had summoned both Houses of the Parliament, Dar-ul-Umara and Dar-ul-Awam, for their opinion about the future relations with the Dominion of Pakistan, and he would inform him about their opinion by the end of the month.
When the Dar-ul-Awam of Kalat met on February 21, 1948, it decided not to accede, but to negotiate a treaty to determine Kalat’s future relations with Pakistan. On March 9, 1948 the Khan received communication from JInnah announcing that he had decided not to deal personally with the Kalat state negotiations, which would henceforth be dealt with by the Pakistan Government. So far there had not been any formal negotiations but only an informal request made by Jinnah to the Khan at Sibi.The US Ambassador to Pakistan in his dispatch home on March 23, 1948 informed that on March 18, “Kharan, Lasbela and Mekran, feudatory states of Kalat” had acceded to Pakistan. The Khan of Kalat objected to their accession, arguing that it was a violation of Kalat’s Standstill Agreement with Pakistan. He also said that while Kharan and Lasbela were its feudatories, Mekran was a district of Kalat. The British Government had placed the control of the foreign policy of the two feudatories under Kalat in July 1947, prior to partition.

On March 26, 1948, the Pakistan Army was ordered to move into the Baloch coastal region of Pasni, Jiwani and Turbat. This was the first act of aggression prior to the march on Kalat by a Pakistani military detachment on April 1, 1948. Kalat capitulated on March 27 after the army moved into the coastal region and it was announced in Karachi that the Khan of Kalat has agreed to merge his state with Pakistan. Jinnah accepted this accession under the gun. It should be noted that the Balochistan Assembly had already rejected any suggestion of forfeiting the independence of Balochistan on any pretext. So even the signature of the Khan of Kalat taken under the barrel of the gun, was not viable, because the parliament had rejected the accession and the accession was never mandated by the British Empire either, who had given Balochistan under Kalat independence before India. The sovereign Baloch state after British withdrawal from India lasted only 227 days. During this time Baluchistan had a flag flying in its embassy in Karachi where its ambassador to Pakistan lived.
The true history of Balochistan is never shared or talked about among the general public of Pakistan. Our textbooks and other publications narrate a rhetoric which is far from the truth, and which has made the general public believe in a lie. It is the responsibility of the intellectuals, the teachers and the professors to learn and reveal the real facts according to non-tempered historical documents.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby Prem » 07 Dec 2015 00:38

RajeshA wrote:This is crimea model.

Independence for Sindhudesh from PakistanJun 13, 2015


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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2015 12:13

Right. Another Bangladesh on the West. So we help create Sindh. And then wait another 60 years for it to dutifully follow in the Jihadi path, cursing the next 2-3 generations with another Jihadi protectorate in the Subcontinent...

A knowledgeable commentator has said that Hindus have a peculiar penchant for recursively tracing their own history. I'm starting to realize he probably wasn't wrong.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby johneeG » 07 Dec 2015 12:29

devesh wrote:Right. Another Bangladesh on the West. So we help create Sindh. And then wait another 60 years for it to dutifully follow in the Jihadi path, cursing the next 2-3 generations with another Jihadi protectorate in the Subcontinent...

A knowledgeable commentator has said that Hindus have a peculiar penchant for recursively tracing their own history. I'm starting to realize he probably wasn't wrong.


Bangladhesh is better than East-Pakistan. Its a question of choosing the lesser evil.

When you try to solve a problem, you break it down into manageable portions. Divide & rule. Hindhus would be fools to not help Sindh.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RoyG » 07 Dec 2015 12:29

Bangladesh is a minor nuisance now. We're now on the same page wrt jihadis. There is a great deal of cooperation between intelligence agencies, bengali culture including language is a diluting force for Islamism, good working relationship with the PM, etc. I would say that the experiment is working. Illegal immigration is as much our fault as it is theirs. Moreover, we've only started thinking seriously about our comprehensive strength and foreign policy. Independent Balochistan and Sindh can only be a good thing b/c it curtails influence of the Pakjabis and cuts them off from the sea and natural resources.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby deWalker » 12 Dec 2015 07:59

Pakistan's economy will disappoint again this year

SBP finds weaknesses in economic policies

Pakistan likely to miss GDP growth target: SBP

From the article:
The SBP report said that the GDP growth rate of the current financial year will settle between 4 to 5 percent, whereas the inflation rate will conclude below the target of 6 percent between 3.5 to 4.5 percent.

So..... GDP growth rate (not per capita, to be precise) is at the inflation rate. Since the population is growing, the average Paki is poorer this year than the last year - by about 3%, the assumed population growth rate.

Diwakar

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 12 Dec 2015 17:39

Brahui Nadu

I have a question: Why is a Dravidian region under occupation of Pakistan? Isn't it India's responsibility to liberate the Dravidians from the captivity of Pakis?

Yes, I speak of Brahui Nadu, also known as Balochistan!

Brahui Nadu should be a part of India, where Brahuis and Baloch can together experience freedom and empowerment.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby devesh » 13 Dec 2015 13:19

johneeG wrote:
devesh wrote:Right. Another Bangladesh on the West. So we help create Sindh. And then wait another 60 years for it to dutifully follow in the Jihadi path, cursing the next 2-3 generations with another Jihadi protectorate in the Subcontinent...

A knowledgeable commentator has said that Hindus have a peculiar penchant for recursively tracing their own history. I'm starting to realize he probably wasn't wrong.


Bangladhesh is better than East-Pakistan. Its a question of choosing the lesser evil.

When you try to solve a problem, you break it down into manageable portions. Divide & rule. Hindhus would be fools to not help Sindh.


how would it be manageable? without dealing with the core problem of Islamic theocracy, there is no "solution". only way to deal with theocracy is is you gain sovereignty over the land. do we have sovereignty of BD? how do you intend to solve the problem of theocracy in Sindh once it separates?

This is a critical failure to understand Islam.

Let us remember: Under Bajirao's intense attack on North India, the Mughals did crumble, but the political expression of Islamist interest simply morphed into a bunch of subehdars. It did not make the task of crushing these subehdars any more "manageable". Also, the Islamist infrastructure of theocracy did not vanish with the crumbling mughals.

This is a critical failure to understand Islam. There are 2 dimensions to defeating Islam in the long run: inflicting crushing military defeats which shows that their vaunted Allah is no where to be seen, and then the liquidation of the theocracy. These 2 have been the only ways that Islam was rolled back.

"separate Sindh" under the current rubric: you'll see that it achieve neither of the above 2 dimensions. On the contrary, the Islamist virus simply another secular-pretending State to hide in and regenerate Jihad in a future generation, while continuing it internally anyway.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby devesh » 13 Dec 2015 13:25

in a way perhaps it is better to keep talking of Balochistan and Sindh to keep Paki focus there. as a purely tactical move. not actually supporting "separatism" in any concrete way. the actual focus will be the opposite area from those 2. once that corridor is cleared, then next phase of achieving "sovereignty" over the entirety of Pak in a single sweep. not piecemeal.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby krishna_krishna » 10 Jan 2016 20:11

krishna_krishna wrote:Guru'sWe need also some discussion on current "sau - irn " conflict and TSP nuts getting cracked. We can get a lot done if we become creative wrt TSP. Think NS life was saved by them but now he is is at the top and not able to deliver even not openly saying that they are against "IRN". Many possibilities

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 07 Apr 2016 23:37

Sub-conventional War with Pakistan

Cross-posted from the "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Jan 24, 2016" Thread

shiv wrote:I do agree that some raids across the border and some visible retribution would be satisfying to me and to everyone else. But if I put myself in Modi/Doval's shoes I would expect the result of such punishment to only goad Pakistani jihadis and the army to continue more attacks and terrorism as "retribution for Indian aggression" apart from using Indian aggression as a call to the international community to take note.


The trick is to conduct subconventional war like the Pakistanis are doing. It is a war where the attacker can shrug one's shoulders and smile at the same time, whereas the attacked party has to feel the pain and just stuff it and not be able to raise the level to full-scale conventional. All the attacked party can do is to run from one superpower to another and cry, "cheating"!

So what is our sub-conventional war?

I think the answer to that is pretty clear:

- Bad Taliban (supari)
- Baluchistan (arms supply & diplomatic support)
- Border firing (uninterrupted and uninterruptible)

That is all subconventional stuff, but it is more than enough to make Pakistan bleed from its musharraf!

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby RajeshA » 08 Apr 2016 13:39

Let's Ignore Mirage of Army-Civilian Faux-Divide and Explore Real Divides

Cross-posted from the "Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Jan 24, 2016" Thread

Published on Apr 07, 2016
By Jyoti Malhotra
Modi Has Won Round 1 Against Pak Army. He Must Keep At It.: NDTV

SSridhar wrote:Rajagopal, Jyoti Malhotra is another one in the Mani Shankar Ayyar mould of 'uninterruptible & uninterrupted' relationship with Pakistan. What a turn of events that such people, diehard venom spewers against Modi, have started to sing tunes of praise !

She wants more concessions to be given to Pakistan. She feels that would sharpen the divide between the Army Generals the People of Pakistan.

Now, that is where she makes the mistake, by equating Nawaz Sharif with the People of Pakistan. Then, what does she expect the People to do? Rise in revolt against the Generals for having misled them for 68 years?


This is the kind of divide State Dept, Western media and Thinktank chatteratti like to look for in "unpleasant" countries in order to further color revolutions - looking for a divide between an authoritarian military regime and the "PEOPLE" represented by a few civilian faces and then using a people's movement a la Tahir Square, bring about electoral democracy.

It is intellectual laziness. In Pakistan, people have been given so much of "electoral democracy", that I don't think they are interested anymore. Sure after a few years, people's hopes of Army solving any problems would fade, like it always does, and they may start hoping for another round of civilian govt., but all that is still time pass and for all purposes, useless for India, as it doesn't change the dynamic. The Army has and would continue to hold all controls over security and aggression.

Every once in a while, Army takes a back seat to frontal rule, so as to renew its strength and popularity among the people. This is no different. It doesn't change the dynamic.

What India needs to do is to overwhelm the Pakistani Army, and not allow it any room for taking a break. Pakistani Army needs to implode.

The divide we are looking for is not between Army vs Civilian. That is a mirage.

We should be exploiting ethnic divides - Balochistan, Gilgit, Pushtunistan, Sindh, Ahmadi-non-Ahmadi, etc. These are the serious divides.

GoI should stop investing time and energy on playing some useless Army-Civilian chess.

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Re: Managing Pakistan's failure

Postby member_29350 » 08 Apr 2016 22:22

We should be exploiting ethnic divides - Balochistan, Gilgit, Pushtunistan, Sindh, Ahmadi-non-Ahmadi, etc. These are the serious divides.


This.

Take the paki appalam(popudom for angrezi folks), smash it into smithereens. & Take the bits that you want. East Pakiland was cleaved. next is Sindh and balochistan


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