Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in Af-P

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54776
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in Af-P

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2010 01:17

I would like to explore the options for India to provide direct relief to flood victims in Afghanistan and TSP due to the recent floods. This is needed as TSP state govt refuses Indian assitance. So how can india provide relief for the suffering flood victims.

Note most seriously affected are in
- Khyber-Pashtunwa which is Ghilzai area.
- next come the Balochistan
- further downstream are the Sindhis.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54776
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2010 01:18

X-posts...
RajeshA wrote:I think India is missing out on a golden opportunity by not opening a relief center distributing relief aid worth the 5 million USD from our Jalalabad Consulate to the various warlords and Taliban, instead of giving it to Pakistan.

Important is to have "From the People of Hindustan for the Pakhtun People as a token of Friendship" in Pushto and Dari on all relief supplies.



and..
ramana wrote:I agree and had suggested it in the TSP thread. It can be opened for Afghan flood victims without need to check the domilicty.

viewtopic.php?p=928452#p928452

RajeshA, Can you open a thread to collect ideas and logistics for such a center operating near Jalalabad or another good location. It can also be in Iranian Balochistan. Maybe the US scholar's nigthmare might come true about Zaranj!

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 01:57

Ramana garu,

This thread is most opportune. Thinking that those who are suffering from these floods are Pakistanis only, it has desensitized us to the suffering of many sections of the populace there, who could be friendly towards India. We have to consider that there are many Pushtuns, Baluchis and Sindhis who are also suffering and not just India's avowed enemies sitting in Pakjab.

The problem is that Indian relief supplies either may not be accepted by Pakistan, or even if they accept may not be distributed with any acknowledgement of those relief supplies being a gift of India.

We have to find ways to go around the various obstacles that have been created by the Pakjabis in Islamabad and the Army in Rawalpindi in the smooth distribution of Indian relief supplies.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 02:46

I'll try to give some initial suggestions here.

Aid to Baluchistan: The best way to reach Baluchistan would be through Qandahar. India has a Consulate there. India could build an air-bridge to Qandahar. There is the Kandahar International Airport, which is managed by the Canadians. India can use the Airport to both land the transport aircraft there or also for the relief supplies to be flown out of the airport.

India could also serve Qandahar through the Iran route over Chabahar Port and the Zaranj-Delaram highway.

At the moment, Qandahar has a Governor named Tooryalai Wesa, who was an expatriate in Canada and lived there for 13 years. He is an educated man and he is well connected with Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai. The USA has also pinned their hopes on him to bring about change in Qandahar. He can also be quite helpful in this endeavor.

Qandahar is connected to Quetta by road. That road could also be used to transport relief supplies to the border of Pakistan. From there the relief supplies could be transported by enterprising private transporters, by the Taliban, by various Baluchistan Freedom Organizations, or by the Baluchistan Govt. to the affected areas.

The Baluchistan Govt. is at the moment headed by a PPP Chief Minister Mr. Aslam Raisani of the fame: "A degree is a degree! Whether fake or genuine, it's a degree! It makes no difference!". He could be persuaded to distribute Indian relief supplies, to his people. After all as a politician he would also want to be seen as helping the affected. If he needs to be roped in, perhaps he could be invited to India to both commemorate some Balochistan Studies Dept. in some Indian College, and to be conferred an honorary degree. While in India, he could make a direct appeal to the Indian Govt. for relief aid.

After all, most of Baluchistan was flooded in order to save Sindh and Jacobabad by creating breach in Tori Bandh. Deputy Speaker of Senate, Mr. Jan Jamali (a Balochi) has already demanded suo moto notice to the Chief Justice of Pakistan, Iftikhar Muhammed Chaudhry on this issue. Justice Chaudhry had worked in Baluchistan between 1989 and 2000, so he is sympathetic also to the Baluchis.

Considering what the Establishment has done to Baluchistan, they would be wary in rejecting Baluchistan's insistence on taking direct aid from India through Afghanistan.

Should the Canadians and the British having their headquarters in Kandahar International Airport be willing to distribute Indian relief aid to Baluchistan using aerial means, one could also use that route. After all, Indians and David Cameron have meeting of minds.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby brihaspati » 25 Aug 2010 03:19

GOI can create an autonomous or public limited body, on a non-profit basis to manage international disaster relief. Its budget can be decided in the parliament witha roll-over option for unused funds. Such a body could have a charter of what constitutes "disaster" and which may include so-called "slow" or "below-the-radar" human tragedies like general famine conditions, some disease outbreak, etc. including floods, earthquakes etc.

This will put distance between political colour of the concurrent GOI, and the org itself, and will allow the org to function as a dedicated research and intervention body and plan or prepare for human tragedy on the international scale instead of an ad-hoc reactive basis.

Such a body could have established contacts with border-crossing networks that are present all along the western frontier of AFPAK - but of course would have needed Iranian cooperation. There are of course strategic and security advantages and disadvantages. :mrgreen:

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21172
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Prem » 25 Aug 2010 03:27

We missed the first oppertunity in last Zalzala in POK. But Allah be Praised, with weather pattern changing , many more "floody" oppertunities in near future will be at GOI's disposal to be utilized to punish Poakistan.
Just Like BD, extend credit line to Afghanistan Government with the understaning that $ amount will be written off and all the material to be used for Pushtun/ Baloch flood victims across the artificial line. This will help Pakhtuns to get together and get rid of Pakjabi control over them. Initiate this economic warfare with Poaks and make Pushtuns aware of the benefits they can enjoy being part of Afghan renaissance . The idea is to make Pushtuns equal to their Kashmiri parasites thus putting addedd strain on Poak Dekhonomoney already reliant on foreign aid.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 03:41

Aid to Sindh: Between India and Sindh there is a direct train - the Thar Express. It runs between Jodhpur and Karachi (not quite, as there are follow on trains, that are used). So it must not be too much of a problem getting the relief supplies through to Sindh.

Again, it would be better if the Sindh Govt. takes up the task of coordinating with the Indian Govt.

Disclaimer: I am not quite sure how international aid is being routed! This needs some clarification. So here some assumptions -
Most of the international aid that Pakistan is receiving, is being routed through Federal authorities, most probably the Pakistani Armed Forces. The relief supplies arrive at Karachi, and are lifted straight into the custody of the military. There is little that others can do. The provincial governments thus become dependent on the generosity of the military. And military would only give the supplies further only after their needs have been first satisfied.

In the case of India, the Sindh Govt. can directly take custody of all the aid, because it is not coming through the Pakistani Navy controlled Karachi Port, but rather arrives at Karachi in a train at the Railway Station.

Should Pakistan be apprehensive of allowing so many Indian security staff to travel on the multiple trains into Pakistan, perhaps some security forces of some third country in SAARC can take over the security duty - from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, etc.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54776
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby ramana » 25 Aug 2010 04:03

Keep thinking. Good ideas....

I like third party escort or even TSPA escorts but don't let the aid supplies stop. I might ask the head of Deoband to be on the committe..

Maybe MMS can get on the phone and make the offers to the Zardari to provide relief supplies. This is no to time nit pick.

I also would have aid distribution centers run from Zaranj and Jalalabad.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3524
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Rudradev » 25 Aug 2010 08:35

Remember the Turkish "aid flotilla" to Gaza?

There is a lot that can be accomplished by large, visible missions of aid (don't have to be seaborne)... especially if attended with lots of media fanfare and including many foreign, particularly gora, activists/volunteers among their personnel.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby shiv » 25 Aug 2010 08:53

Well Muzaffarabad is PoK and badly affected and the first to be affected. What aid can be sent across the LoC? Can families be a allowed in as refugees?

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8727
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Aug 2010 09:21

It is in India's interests that the floods in Pakistan are exacerbated to the fullest as it will create an economic crisis which will lead to the decline of the Pak economy.
See:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100823-713781.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575448773669357704.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

There is also a component of TSP lying about the severity of the floods. Just today, a TSP minister was commenting that it will take only 3 years to rebuild.
See B. Raman's article:
http://sify.com/news/is-pakistan-exaggerating-flood-damage-news-international-kixnhqhdeii.html
Something smells rotten here.

Cash and material aid will only go to the TSPA rats and cronies of Mr. Duspercenti. Any additional on the ground aid will put to risk Indian personnel. If this was not the case, I can assure you the west with the evangelical jihadis would have descended on TSP by now with lots of suffering imagery like the Haiti earthquake.

Carl_T
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2533
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 02:37
Location: anandasya sagare

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Carl_T » 25 Aug 2010 10:01

Rudradev wrote:Remember the Turkish "aid flotilla" to Gaza?

There is a lot that can be accomplished by large, visible missions of aid (don't have to be seaborne)... especially if attended with lots of media fanfare and including many foreign, particularly gora, activists/volunteers among their personnel.



I propose a BRF sponsored Azadi Caravan to deliver various relief items to the suffering people of Muzaffarabad.

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby derkonig » 25 Aug 2010 10:09

IB4TL....
Let them flood "victims" stew in the open air bakstan. Nothing we do will ever remove their hatred. Its therefore best that we leave them alone.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 10:30

derkonig wrote:Nothing we do will ever remove their hatred. Its therefore best that we leave them alone.

The purpose is not primarily to make them love us, but rather for the Pakistani provinces to lose their faith that any Pakistani institutions are there to help them - Army, Pakistani Govt. or even Pak-pyaare Militant organizations. With Indian relief supplies in hand, many organizations in Pakistan who are not smitten by the Army can try to win influence amongst their people. This would loosen the Center's hold on the Periphery.

The second reason surely remains, that the people of these provinces would be lesser motivated to hurt India than the Pakjabis would want to hurt. If the Pushtun can say, that the war between Pakistan and India is a Pakjabi problem, then we will be making some progress.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8286
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Pratyush » 25 Aug 2010 10:49

Carl_T wrote:
I propose a BRF sponsored Azadi Caravan to deliver various relief items to the suffering people of Muzaffarabad.


I second that.

The discussion in this thread could also take place in the oppressed minorities or the liberating the Indic peoples thread.

So IB4TL :P

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby derkonig » 25 Aug 2010 10:49

^^
^^^
Sir, if there is one thing that unites these barbarians, its the hatred of India. The aam paki has had 63 years to see the incompetence of its rulers & the lack of institutions in their beloved fort of islam. If that cannot open their eyes & reverse the brainwashing/paki propaganda, little else can. Didn't K Subranamyam write about how would the pakis spin Indian offer for aid like tarnishing food/medical supplies of questionable quality? Heck, how much longer before allegations of Indian medicines being used to sterilize pakis emerge? The point is that we have to move on, these people are truly lost. Nothing we ever do will please them or reduce the hatred. Its all futile. The only way hatred in pak land will be gone is when there are no pakis left.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8286
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Pratyush » 25 Aug 2010 10:53

Since, the thread is going to remain for the moment any way. Let me point out that the Pakis have returned the truck loads of Indian patatos that were sent to TSP.

Why?

Because, they had spoiled awating the unloading at the Pakistani mandi. Now the pakis want India to compensate them as well as take back the Patatos.

Keep the above in mind while discussing any Indian aid to TSP.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1978
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby AdityaM » 25 Aug 2010 12:04

perhaps IndiaPost can launch a postage stamp in solidarity with the lovable and affable people of paksitan.

this single act above all will be much appreciated. The WKK can then send mails & flyers with the stamp affixed to Pakistan

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Lalmohan » 25 Aug 2010 12:46

have a relief column form up on the approach road to the neelum valley. it can wait there in full media glare, ready to cross and provide humanitarian aid, but be prevented by the TFTA-TSPA. surely the aazadi loving stone throwers would like to volunteer to provide aid and succour to their poor birathers across the yellow sea?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24153
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby SSridhar » 25 Aug 2010 12:52

A significant proportion of the trade between India & Pakistan is through the smugglers' route. Almost over a billion dollars worth of trade happens this way (almost all of it one way, from India to Pakistan). We must use this channel to send in our aid. The smugglers will be paid by Indian agencies with strict instructions to distribute the goods free, lest they be caught for smuggling and punished. Of course, the aid material will carry appropriate labels in Pushto, Urdu, and Balochi proclaiming our love for the suffering people.

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5829
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby krisna » 25 Aug 2010 16:08

Baloch people want direct flood relief aid, not via Islamabad: Minister
Fed up by the federal government's negligence over the plight of flood affected people in the province, Balochistan's Communication and Works Minister Mir Sadiq Umrani has urged donor countries to give funds 'directly to the people of the province and not via Islamabad.'


"We want direct aid from neighbouring countries and not via Islamabad", he said, adding that if immediate relief does not arrive, people would start dying of hunger.

Umrani, whose party-the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) is heading the coalition government in the country, also urged countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and other Middle-East nations to help the people of Balochistan, who are finding it hard to cope with the country's worst floods.


1) Though India is not specifically mentioned, India could send supplies through friendly countries and through balochi organisations present abroad. baki may be sensitive to allow any aid to Balochis from India.

2) Indian WKKs have contacts with RAPEs in bakistan, why cant these useful idiots be employed to help in sending aid to the needy bakis. They can push through red tape :?: ease visas,may be help in sindh. sort of track II pissful diplomacy with crates of Indian medical supplies food packets etc with made in India labels etc. names are like sandeep pandey and salman haidar, swami agnivesh in saffron robe, twisted setalwad ashok mander etc must be encouraged. They can have their biriyani and also work for poor , not just chai biskoot sessions with RAPEs.

3) About help from across afghanisthan, I am not sure as the areas involved are deep in bakistan territory- nowshera and charsadda etc. the areas bordering afghanisthan are hilly and less affected. they are also taliban strongholds. Indian medical missions have opened across afghanisthan it can always be explored and exploited after all we are only helping poor and distressed bakis.

4) Edhi foundation is a good samaritan in times of crisis in bakistan. can something be done to allow aid to it dierctly :!:
5) vehicles like ambulances- etc with TATA or other Indian made vehicles can be sent across.
6) Perishable food items should be avoided as RAPEs will allow it to rot and conveniently blame India hence will backfire(already has happened)

7) Media blitz--Foremost of all DDM should be forced to highlight in front pages for some time about Indians helping them.
It will soon be picked by everyone- today or tomorrow.

JMT

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 16:14

derkonig wrote:Sir, if there is one thing that unites these barbarians, its the hatred of India.


Raja ji,

One could counter that and say that, if not all of them hate India, the whole place could fall apart! :)
But that would a semantic argument mostly.

The thing is, there is enough potential in the current flood situation in Pakistan, to advance disenchantment of the non-Pakjabi people towards their government and state. That is an opportunity India can avail of.

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby derkonig » 25 Aug 2010 16:29

RajeshA wrote:
derkonig wrote:Sir, if there is one thing that unites these barbarians, its the hatred of India.

The thing is, there is enough potential in the current flood situation in Pakistan, to advance disenchantment of the non-Pakjabi people towards their government and state. That is an opportunity India can avail of.


This disenchantment has been around since '47, it is entirely upto the GoI to exploit it. The need of the hour is to build upon the existing disenchantment & stir the paki pot. Sending aid will not help.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1978
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby AdityaM » 25 Aug 2010 16:52

krisna wrote:1) Though India is not specifically mentioned, India could send supplies through friendly countries and through balochi organisations present abroad. baki may be sensitive to allow any aid to Balochis from India.


Are you guys serious? :-?
In good times or bad times, the Paki army is always in control of having the last word.
Can everyone stop these 'wet' dreams of giving aid & winning brownie points?

They dont want you there. Period.
It doesnt matter what the balouch think. We consigned them to their Paki fait long ago against their will. (Tibet wasn't our first mistake)
And as MMS said- We have nothing to hide in balouchstan. How do you expect him to go against every cell and sinew in his body to open direct relations between Balouch & india.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Lalmohan » 25 Aug 2010 16:53

I am appalled at the discrimination being shown towards disenfranchised haris who are disproportionately affected by the floods - they being the poorest have the least facilities and the worst of everything, and now the state is denying them and their co-citizens are fleecing them

Long Live Free Haristan!

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5829
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby krisna » 25 Aug 2010 21:36

AdityaM wrote:
krisna wrote:1) Though India is not specifically mentioned, India could send supplies through friendly countries and through balochi organisations present abroad. baki may be sensitive to allow any aid to Balochis from India.


Are you guys serious? :-?
In good times or bad times, the Paki army is always in control of having the last word.
Can everyone stop these 'wet' dreams of giving aid & winning brownie points?

They dont want you there. Period.
It doesnt matter what the balouch think. We consigned them to their Paki fait long ago against their will. (Tibet wasn't our first mistake)
And as MMS said- We have nothing to hide in balouchstan. How do you expect him to go against every cell and sinew in his body to open direct relations between Balouch & india.


It doesnt matter what balochis think. precisely.
we have to create conditions for them to part away from the abominable rump called pakjabi. . The resentment should be allowed to fester and consume the resources of the rump.goal should be to make balochistan independent.

Once independent balochistan will have to look for friends in the world. It requires lot of investments,economy etc etc. Reality will change their mindset towards India. Remember as long as India is strong economically and militarily you cannot ignore however you try to hate it.
Yeah I am dreaming, but hey no harm in it as long as it helps balochis. :wink:

About MMS-- he does according to his advisers etc. I am in no position to comment due to non availability of full data. :)
One thing for sure, I am :D regarding opening of medical missions in afghanisthan(see my previous post)

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 25 Aug 2010 21:46

India can also provide relief supplies to any international aid agency, which is willing to enter Pakistan and be on the ground there, and has a go ahead from the Pakistan Government.

Preferably the international aid agency should be working in non-Pakjabi affected areas.

As in all other cases, all relief supplies should carry the India's Friendship Message.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21172
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Prem » 25 Aug 2010 23:14

RajeshA wrote:India can also provide relief supplies to any international aid agency, which is willing to enter Pakistan and be on the ground there, and has a go ahead from the Pakistan Government.
Preferably the international aid agency should be working in non-Pakjabi affected areas.
As in all other cases, all relief supplies should carry the India's Friendship Message.


Persia can help but first GOI must be shaken from deep slumber. But worry not, its the beginning of Poak problem . Flooding, drought ,flogging ,begging gonna be a yearly festivities and many oppetunities in near future to serve the needs of non Pakjabis in Pakudia.

A_Gupta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11639
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31
Contact:

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby A_Gupta » 26 Aug 2010 01:19

If Indian choppers go to help,
a. must have Indian pilots (can have Paki crew also)
b. must have the Indian flag (can have UN flag also).

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 08:58

RajeshA wrote:India can also provide relief supplies to any international aid agency, which is willing to enter Pakistan and be on the ground there, and has a go ahead from the Pakistan Government.

Preferably the international aid agency should be working in non-Pakjabi affected areas.

As in all other cases, all relief supplies should carry the India's Friendship Message.



You saw the reaction to the aid that we offered.

You saw and heard the views of the so called erudite and educated pakis holding forth on evil India on our own DDM channels.

Why then are we hell bent on offering unwanted help on bended knees??? When did we become the supplicant??

This is exactly why we have not been able to solve the kashmir problem or any other problem for that matter.

If they kick you, kick them the hell back.

They are speaking in one language and ourselves in an another. We need to speak in their language and give a harder kick in return for every one they give us.

This nonsense of " we are all human beings onlee, ram rahim bull**** " logic has failed and shamed us.

All other countries are keeping quiet and bar a few, have kept out of the scene after throwing some meager amount of cash into the kitty.

Do we have shit for brains that we are slavishly hard wired to behave like this and send futile"messages of friendship"??

If they do not want our aid, why then are we persisting on applying our lips to their slimy bottoms??

Or is it that we know no other way??

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 09:01

A_Gupta wrote:If Indian choppers go to help,
a. must have Indian pilots (can have Paki crew also)
b. must have the Indian flag (can have UN flag also).


What a wonderful idea.

They also fly the same Mi helos that we do.

Why not simply hand over the helos to them at wagah at a wistful candle lit ceremony.

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1978
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby AdityaM » 26 Aug 2010 09:05

this is an insane thread.
also the floods are in pakistan. So how are the victims in "Af".

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 09:10

SSridhar wrote:A significant proportion of the trade between India & Pakistan is through the smugglers' route. Almost over a billion dollars worth of trade happens this way (almost all of it one way, from India to Pakistan). We must use this channel to send in our aid. The smugglers will be paid by Indian agencies with strict instructions to distribute the goods free, lest they be caught for smuggling and punished. Of course, the aid material will carry appropriate labels in Pushto, Urdu, and Balochi proclaiming our love for the suffering people.


SSridhar ji

Smuggling becomes an offence when undeclared goods cross some international border.

Why do you expect the pakis to appreciate some high minded moral dimension to what is essentially a lawless act?

These very "appropriate labels in Pushto, Urdu, and Balochi" will get a lot of people killed.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8727
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby Mort Walker » 26 Aug 2010 09:12

^^^I agree. TSP will recover quickly. TSP was always an agrarian feudal state where the top 100 families control most of the wealth. The poor there are never going to see their lives improve and the TSPA rats will still control the wealth.

IB4TL NOW.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 09:19

AdityaM wrote:this is an insane thread.
also the floods are in pakistan. So how are the victims in "Af".



I agree with you.

I do not see our own Indian flood victims singing hosannas on our streets because the MMS government has has completely rebuilt their lives after the floods.

The people of ladakh will also have a lot to say but alas they are mostly Buddhists and not........

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54776
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2010 09:23

You have expressed you views. Why rush to IB4TL.

The idea is how to break the RAPE-TSPA stranglehold and bring down the barriers like Reagan did when he said "Gorbachev, bring down the wall!"

I am no WKK but when I see the SDRE suffering I feel empathy for them. Maybe the ABV' insanniyat bug is in me. I see these floods as a way to release the SDRE from the oppression if the RAPE-TSPA coterie.
There will be no one else but Indians who will feel for their fellow SDRE who but for the hand of the devas would have been on our side of the border.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 09:42

ramana wrote:You have expressed you views. Why rush to IB4TL.

The idea is how to break the RAPE-TSPA stranglehold and bring down the barriers like Reagan did when he said "Gorbachev, bring down the wall!"

I am no WKK but when I see the SDRE suffering I feel empathy for them. Maybe the ABV' insanniyat bug is in me. I see these floods as a way to release the SDRE from the oppression if the RAPE-TSPA coterie.
There will be no one else but Indians who will feel for their fellow SDRE who but for the hand of the devas would have been on our side of the border.



Ramana ji,

What ever happened to that aman ki asha diarrhea??

Don't see much of it in the news any more.

Or have even these morons wised up??

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23287
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby chetak » 26 Aug 2010 10:00

derkonig wrote:^^
^^^
Sir, if there is one thing that unites these barbarians, its the hatred of India. The aam paki has had 63 years to see the incompetence of its rulers & the lack of institutions in their beloved fort of islam. If that cannot open their eyes & reverse the brainwashing/paki propaganda, little else can. Didn't K Subranamyam write about how would the pakis spin Indian offer for aid like tarnishing food/medical supplies of questionable quality? Heck, how much longer before allegations of Indian medicines being used to sterilize pakis emerge? The point is that we have to move on, these people are truly lost. Nothing we ever do will please them or reduce the hatred. Its all futile. The only way hatred in pak land will be gone is when there are no pakis left.



There is simple jealousy among the common abduls and the educated middle class that India has completely out striped them in all aspects nation building.

The overt hatred of the paki army and their bureaucracy for India finds covert expression among the abduls because of the ummah factor and natural cultural cussedness.

In their minds they continue to be the "Rulers" but are perplexed as to how mere "Hindus" and previous "vassals" can actually be better than them. That is why so many of them have now begun to question the history that they have been force fed all these years.

The hard reality is that in their heart of hearts they know that they will never catch up with us. Flawed democracy warts and all is immeasurably superior to what ever sharia soaked future they will be allowed to have.

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15995
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby RajeshA » 26 Aug 2010 11:04

chetak wrote:There is simple jealousy among the common abduls and the educated middle class that India has completely out striped them in all aspects nation building.

The overt hatred of the paki army and their bureaucracy for India finds covert expression among the abduls because of the ummah factor and natural cultural cussedness.

In their minds they continue to be the "Rulers" but are perplexed as to how mere "Hindus" and previous "vassals" can actually be better than them. That is why so many of them have now begun to question the history that they have been force fed all these years.

The hard reality is that in their heart of hearts they know that they will never catch up with us. Flawed democracy warts and all is immeasurably superior to what ever sharia soaked future they will be allowed to have.


In the last decade, India has visibly moved far ahead of Pakistan, with some Pakistanis now openly agreeing that their country has no chance of keeping up with the race. Pakistan has continued with its policy of a 1000 cuts (its been much more already) and want to instill fear in Indians through terrorism. We have taken the blows and are not trembling in fear.

The Pakistanis are getting sufficient fear of their own by the crumbling administrative infrastructure and their terrorism. India cannot really add to that. Where we can give them the 1000 cuts is in their misplaced sense of superiority, we can pour oil to their fires of jealousy, we can further tear down their self-respect. Giving aid is turning the blade.

The above is however a secondary reason. The primary reason however should really be to support centrifugal forces in Pakistan.

derkonig
BRFite
Posts: 952
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 00:51
Location: Jeering sekular forces bhile Furiously malishing my mijjile @ Led Lips Mijjile Malish Palish Parloul

Re: Options for India to provide relief to flood victims in

Postby derkonig » 26 Aug 2010 11:28

Giving aid is not turning the blade, it will be interpreted as jaziya. The right thing to do is to ignore pak or even better if GoI goes on an offensive against the pak aid begging by highlighting how the money will simply go to terrorists. If the idea is to hurt them, then let no aid reach them.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 72 guests