Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

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RoyG
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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 22 Oct 2015 21:06

ramana wrote:X-Post...
deejay wrote:With reference to protests in POK (TIFWIW):

Recently my brother was going on a holiday to Leh area. He had a planned visit to Turtuk. I asked him to get a ground view from locals on their perception of India. More than 12 years ago, when I was there, I knew that the Indian Gov. was working hard in pampering the local populace to help them integrate with India after we captured it from Pakis. Even in 2003, there was at least a partial pro paki view there.

My brother went there and spoke to some older gents who he thought would have seen the days under Pakistan. He specifically asked the following (not in exactly same words):
a) Do you remember the time Turtuk was with Pakistan?
- Yes.
b) Do you miss being with Pakistan?
- No.
c) Is the living situation better in India or was it better in Pakistan?
- Beta, relatives come from the other side to visit us. We give them our old woolens. Situation is very bad there. No one is happy there. No jobs, nothing. But a lot of trouble.
___________________

It seems the message that things in Indian Kashmir is dramatically better has gotten across to the 'awam' of POK loud and clear and they are getting really impatient with Pakistan.

A similar impact is happening in India. The local Kashmiri is fairly well connected with people from POK. That POK folks are not well off and are unhappy is now loud and clear to the aam abduls. This whole Kashmiri "intefada" jihad and the gun based terrorism is under threat.

Pakistan may be trying to stir up Punjab but they are fast facing a hostile Kashmiri on both sides of the border in Kashmir
.


One more data point.....


If we can't deal with political situation in Nepal, how exactly are we supposed to deal with a full blown secessionist movement in PoK?

IMO, as long as we are unable define ourselves as a dharmic state and lack a strategic culture to protect and project it, all we can do is really sit and stare from a distance.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Oct 2015 21:15

While we work on those aspects the world doesn't wait.
Let POK be free regardless whether we develop a strategy or not.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 22 Oct 2015 21:21

ramana wrote:Folks please use this thread to document the gory details of POK treatment. We haven't given up on them
IDSA has a news digest published almost monthly since 2008 on PoK. http://idsa.in/poknewsdigest

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby arun » 24 Oct 2015 06:35

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Transcript of our Ministry of External Affairs comment on the US visit of the Prime Minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Questions on US supply of F-16’s, US funding of Diamer Bhasha dam construction on territory of India occupied by the Islamic Republic, Islamic Republic sponsored Mohammadden Terrorism, and threat of Nuclear weapons deployed by the Islamic Republic etc:

Transcript of Media Briefing by Official Spokesperson (October 23, 2015)

Excerpt:

Question: In the same joint statement between Pakistan and the United States of America there is a mention of US extending help in funding projects such as Diamer-Bhasha dam which is in Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Comments by India, Sir.

Official Spokesperson: On this our position has been very clear and consistent. We oppose any developmental projects in an area which belongs to India but which is under the forcible and illegal occupation of Pakistan. We have made this clear to all countries.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2016 22:38

X-Post....

wig wrote:China firm to build mega dam in PoK despite India's strong opposition

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... as-strong-
opposition/1/565359.html
excerpts

A Chinese state-run company on Thursday announced plans to go ahead with a mega dam in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), the latest indicator of Beijing moving forward with major projects in the region despite India's strong opposition.

One of China's biggest state-run hydropower companies, the China Three Gorges Corporation (CTGC) which manages the 22,500 MW Three Gorges Dam on the Yangtze river - the world's largest dam - has signed an agreement to develop the Kohala hydropower project in PoK, the firm said in a statement posted on its website.

This 1,100 MW dam will come up on the Jhelum River, downstream from Muzaffarabad in PoK. The total investment in the project is estimated at $2.4 billion. Both countries had agreed on a 30-year tariff for the dam, according to Pakistani media reports.
The deal for the dam underlines China's willingness to go forward with major projects in PoK, despite India's consistent opposition.
Indian officials have pointed out China's objections to joint exploration projects between India and Vietnam in the South China Sea, most of which is claimed by Beijing.

Beijing, however, has said the 'purely commercial' projects were without prejudice to the Kashmir issue and that it was not taking a position on territorial disputes between India and Pakistan.

The Kohala dam has been billed as a key project in the new China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) venture that envisages widening the Karakoram Highway, exploring a railway link and a number of energy and infrastructure projects in a corridor connecting Kashgar, in China's far western Xinjiang region, through PoK, to the Gwadar port in Pakistan on the Arabian Sea that is built and managed by China.



So in case of war this dam could be burst.
No hard feelings as its simply a commercial venture.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 10 Jan 2016 09:28

Why wait for war time, we can do what we want to regardless of what others say.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 16 Feb 2016 14:28

X-post from STFU-TSP thread

Provocation in AJK POK - Edit in DT
Following the deadly clash between workers of the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) and the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) in Kotli, Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) that left one activist dead and at least eight others wounded, tensions between the two parties are high. The situation worsened with the PPP’s announcement of Monday as a black day to protest against the wrongful killing of its worker. The PPP’s AJK Prime Minister (PM) Chaudhry Abdul Majeed added that this was a protest against the unreasonable meddling of and provocation by federal ministers. The AJK PM attacked the federal government, claiming that it has neglected this issue despite requests to take notice and now he would write to the Army chief and other heads. The AJK information minister too has similarly criticised the PML-N for resorting to violent tactics in an attempt to steal victory in the upcoming elections. On the other hand the PML-N has called for a judicial inquiry to unearth the facts regarding the clash, stating it was being wrongly accused. Significantly, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s adviser Dr Asif Kirmani has asked the AJK premier to step down since he has failed to maintain order in AJK, while corruption is rampant in government departments. Kirmani also made a stark allegation against the AJK PM stating that he was in Nakial and giving directions to his party activists during the clash, an action which betrayed his ‘ulterior motives’ that also explain why he had conveyed wrong information to the leaders of his party. Meanwhile a protest was arranged outside the Lahore Press Club by the PPP and MNA Faryal Talpur has summoned a meeting of the PPP’s parliamentary party. On Monday, the PPP staged a walkout from parliament in protest.

In political struggle, while contention and rivalry is valid, provocation and violence is not. While reports state that the clash was instigated by PML-N’s provocations during PPP’s procession, only an inquiry can determine and enable apprehending the culprits of the unfortunate incident, which has not done AJK or the democratic system any good. Instead, a spectacle has been created that not only sullies claims of democratic integrity by the political parties, but also makes doubtful the smooth running of the approaching elections. The PM’s adviser’s statement is also inappropriate at best, since AJK’s autonomous status does not allow for such dictation from Pakistan’s federation. Rather than issuing ultimatums, the federal government must exercise restraint and focus its attention on defusing the increasing tensions between the two leading parties. The government’s adoption of an uncooperative demeanour that PPP leaders say reflects a return to the vengeful politics of the 1990s, does not bode well for the PML-N itself. By vexing the PPP leadership that has supported the PML-N rule and by extension the democratic system, the leadership is only strengthening the opposition against it, the effects of which it may soon begin to witness.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 16 Feb 2016 19:45


Sushupti Ji :

NEVER SIR! Cwapistani or not they are all Terrorists of the same Heather.
Cheers Image

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Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 21 Mar 2016 00:54

The Kashmir squeeze

Kashmir is one of the most intractable international territorial disputes. For 70 years, there is no resolution in sight as neither India nor Pakistan is willing to recognise the other’s claims. British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond recently said in Islamabad that Kashmir should not be a precondition to the Pakistan-India dialogue. Predictably, there were howls of protests in the country over Hammond’s remarks. But realistically can Pakistan afford to keep its head permanently buried in the sand on Kashmir? Self-deception can lead to delusional beliefs. This essentially explains Pakistan’s plight caught in its Kashmir squeeze.

Hammond’s remarks should not come as a surprise to Pakistan’s policy makers. They ought to have come to terms with global realities by now. It is quite evident that Pakistan’s insistence that Kashmir is at the core of its relationship with India does not resonate with the international community. Countries like the U.S. recognise that India has a stake and responsibility in finding a resolution to the Kashmir dispute. They understand that the dispute has bedeviled relations between Pakistan and India and its resolution would certainly reduce regional tensions. This does not mean, however, that they agree with Pakistan’s near-fatal obsession with Kashmir. The fact is that Pakistan is unable to force a military solution in Kashmir, and there is a lack of international interest in third-party mediation. Mostly for domestic consumption, Pakistan can continue to ignore reality and hope it can force India to the negotiating table through international pressure, but this does not seem feasible with India’s growing international clout.

Arguably the Kashmir dispute has added to Pakistan’s political and economic dysfunctionality. Keeping Kashmir central in its bilateral relationship with India has cost Pakistan dearly. Successive political leaders and generals have sought to exploit Indian belligerence on Kashmir as a strategic threat to Pakistan. This has masked the rampant problems of patronage, corruption and incompetence of the country’s governing structures. These are the real threats to a prosperous and stable Pakistan. Moreover, Pakistan’s average growth rate has been about three percent in the last twenty years and its tax: GDP ratio is nine percent. By this measure — GDP growth and tax: GDP ratio — Pakistan’s annual defence budget should be no more than one to two billion dollars and certainly not the staggering almost eight billion presently. Pakistan needs huge foreign investment and sharply lower its defence spending to attain high growth rates that will stabilise the country and create a barrier to internal violence. Being drawn into an unsustainable arms race with a stable and growing India over Kashmir is a certain recipe for disaster for Pakistan. Focusing on growing trade and commerce with India seems the more logical way forward for Pakistan.

On its part, India cannot ignore the genuine alienation of the people of Kashmir from years of Indian misrule. This is reflected in the Kashmiri people periodically revolting against the brutal repression by Indian forces. However, in the present day, the calls for independence and revolution in Kashmir have little to do with Pakistan. Pakistan’s own poor human rights and democratic record, the failed Kargil adventure, which nearly resulted in another Pak-Indo war and state support for terror groups operating in the region, have diminished Pakistan’s moral standing on Kashmir.

Ultimately, the policymakers in Pakistan and India must find the political will and have a vital role to play in any Kashmir solution. Probably, the first step towards the resolution of the dispute is for both Pakistan and India to abandon their past power-centric approach to the conflict and involve the people of the territory in dispute resolution. Secondly, the proxy war between Pakistan and India in Kashmir must come to an end. Security cooperation between Pakistan and India should sustain the present abatement in cross-border terrorism and ensure that terrorist elements are not able to re-establish the environment of fear and violence. This should remove the need for large permanent deployments of Indian troops to provide security in the region, a major cause of friction with the local population.

While the forces in Pakistan and India that have benefited from decades of violence in Kashmir will create maximum obstacles, the peace dividend from the resolution of the longstanding dispute will accrue to all parties. With its near-mortal preoccupation with Kashmir removed, Pakistan can focus on better controlling its borders, improving its economic fundamentals and regaining the trust of the international community. A resolution of the Kashmir issue would help in bringing about a stable and prosperous Pakistan, which would be in India’s interest as well. It remains to be seen whether Pakistan will continue to contest the status of Kashmir, spend significant resources on conventional deterrence, and posit India as a major threat or that it will accept that a fundamental change in its Kashmir posture is in the national interest, and not merely a response to international cajoling.

Cheers Image

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 09 May 2016 19:58

X-posted from STFU-TSP thread

Rethinking India’s approach towards Pakistan-occupied Kashmir - S.Kalyanaraman, IDSA
Since 1948, the Indian approach to the Kashmir issue has been to seek a settlement on the basis of the territorial status quo, albeit with minor territorial adjustments. Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru first proposed such a solution to his Pakistani counterpart, Liaquat Ali Khan, in November 1948 at the Commonwealth conference held in London. Subsequently, he reprised the offer during his May 1955 discussions in Delhi with the visiting Pakistani prime minister and interior minister, Mohammad Ali Bogra and Iskander Mirza. Similar proposals were advanced by India during the Swaran Singh-Zulfiqar Bhutto foreign minister talks held under US-UK pressure in 1963-64. Nehru’s successors have persisted with this approach. At the 1972 Simla conference held in the aftermath of the 1971 War, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi proposed to President Zulfiqar Bhutto that the LoC be transformed into an international border as part of structuring a durable peace. More recently, the back channel talks during the 2000s were conducted on the basis of maintaining the territorial status quo, albeit by making borders irrelevant in Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s formulation.

Notwithstanding this broad continuity in its approach towards a Kashmir settlement, India has on occasion highlighted the fact that the only unresolved issue is Pakistan’s continued occupation since 1947 of a substantial portion of Jammu and Kashmir’s territory. The most significant in this regard is the February 1994 resolution passed by parliament, which demanded that Pakistan vacate those portions of Jammu and Kashmir territory under its illegal occupation. And one recent statement to this effect was Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj’s assertion in the UN General Assembly in October 2015 that if Kashmir is indeed under foreign occupation then “the occupier in question is Pakistan.”

Nevertheless, the fact remains that India has not made a concerted and consistent effort to assert its claim to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). The general impression both within and outside the country is that India is reconciled to ceding this territory as part of arriving at a modus vivendi with Pakistan. But this approach of ceding PoK as part of a final settlement does not comport with India’s national and strategic interests, especially in terms of dealing with the challenge posed by China-Pakistan collaboration. Two aspects of this collaboration are of critical importance in the current context:

1) China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC): While there are purportedly multiple motives behind the envisioning of this corridor, the most important from the Indian perspective is China’s wish to overcome what former Chinese President Hu Jintao referred to as the ‘Malacca Dilemma’ – the fear of its sea lanes of communication running through the Indian Ocean being disrupted at this choke point. Once the CPEC becomes fully operational, what little strategic leverage India may have vis-à-vis China in the naval realm is likely to be lost. From this perspective, China gaining direct overland access to the Arabian Sea is not in India’s interest. Further, the entrenchment of Chinese economic and geopolitical interests in PoK is only likely to increase China’s interests in perpetuating the territorial status quo including through military intervention.

2) China-Pakistan Security Collaboration: Since the 1960s, China has made conscious and concerted efforts to sustain and use Pakistan to keep Indian power constrained and Indian energies confined within the subcontinent. From the Chinese perspective, such a policy prevents India from adopting a hostile policy towards China. As one Chinese analyst bluntly put it, an improvement in the adversarial relations between India and Pakistan “would be a precondition for India adopting more aggressive policies toward China.” But from the Indian perspective, China’s support for Pakistan has had the effect of not only making Pakistan even more intransigent but also, by bogging India down within the subcontinent, prevents it from acquiring a larger role in Asian and international affairs. The Chinese security commitment to Pakistan will only increase with the fruition of the CPEC.

A key factor in China’s ability to pursue the CPEC as well as security collaboration with Pakistan is the territorial contiguity the two countries enjoy – a contiguity made possible by Pakistan’s control over Gilgit-Baltistan. Admittedly, the contiguous border is more important for China’s objective of gaining access to the Arabian Sea than it is for keeping India diplomatically and militarily constrained within the subcontinent. After all, China-Pakistan security collaboration can flourish even in the absence of a shared border, so long as each shares a border with India. Nevertheless, the advantages of a shared border for China-Pakistan military collaboration against India cannot be completely dismissed as irrelevant. Indeed, it is this direct territorial link, especially the potent symbol that is the Karakoram Highway, which has contributed to the realisation of a friendship characterised as higher than the highest mountain.

In the light of these factors, it is in India’s interest to seek to reclaim PoK in its entirety even if that takes several decades more. Regaining this territory would also provide India a direct land link to Afghanistan and thence to the Central Asian Republics, both of which are increasingly falling into the Chinese sphere of economic and political influence.

This ideal is, however, not attainable under existing circumstances. A war is impossible to envisage, especially a war to recover large swathes of territory in mountainous terrain, against a reasonably strong adversary that is moreover a nuclear weapons power. Nor is China likely to remain quiet if India were to make an effort to recapture territory that it views as strategically and geopolitically important. India therefore appears destined to live with the extant territorial status quo into the foreseeable future. Under these circumstances, what really are India’s options vis-à-vis Gilgit-Baltistan in particular, Pakistan’s ongoing efforts to incorporate it, and China’s determination to use it for geopolitical purposes?

The most obvious course of policy is to begin asserting claims to this territory as frequently as necessary, as vocally as possible, and in as many forums as needed. But adopting a diplomatic narrative based on legal claims is unlikely to make a major difference. As the saying goes, possession is nine-tenths of the law, and India has not had possession for 69 years now.

The legal claim has to be reinforced by, indeed rest upon, the mobilisation of public opinion in PoK, in India and especially in Jammu and Kashmir, as well as in the rest of the world and particularly in Western countries – a vital task to which inadequate attention has been paid so far. As Hans Morgenthau observed decades ago, international politics is “in a specific sense a struggle for the minds of men.” Therefore, within PoK and among the PoK diaspora, public opinion needs to be mobilised in favour of India’s democratic polity, inclusiveness, and economic and social progress and contrast these with Pakistan’s history of regressive militarism, sectarianism and sponsorship of terrorism. Within India and particularly in Jammu and Kashmir, public opinion needs to be generated about the plight of PoK residents as well as in support of India’s claims to, and vital national interests in, that region. And in the rest of the world, and particularly in Western countries, public opinion needs to be informed about Pakistan’s state-sponsored sectarianism, terrorism and human rights violations in PoK, on the one hand, and China’s ulterior geopolitical objectives, on the other. A pre-requisite for all this is the reasonably widespread dissemination of news about the goings-on in PoK, which is practically non-existent at present and about which there is inadequate consciousness in the minds of both the Indian and global public.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby wig » 09 May 2016 20:50

the state subject law in J&K must be deleted from the statute books. Pakistan has abrogated the state subject law in the areas of J&K that it occupied post the 1947-1948 period as far back as 1970. That was when Z A Bhutto was in power. This obsolete law has contributed considerably in the empowering of the state polity which gets its sustenance from the Indian taxpayer and abuses this largesse most shamelessly

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Luxtor » 10 May 2016 10:36

Peregrine wrote:The Kashmir squeeze

Kashmir is one of the most intractable international territorial disputes. For 70 years, there is no resolution in sight as neither India nor Pakistan is willing to recognise the other’s claims. British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond recently said in Islamabad that Kashmir should not be a precondition to the Pakistan-India dialogue. Predictably, there were howls of protests in the country over Hammond’s remarks. But realistically can Pakistan afford to keep its head permanently buried in the sand on Kashmir? Self-deception can lead to delusional beliefs. This essentially explains Pakistan’s plight caught in its Kashmir squeeze.

Hammond’s remarks should not come as a surprise to Pakistan’s policy makers. They ought to have come to terms with global realities by now. It is quite evident that Pakistan’s insistence that Kashmir is at the core of its relationship with India does not resonate with the international community. Countries like the U.S. recognise that India has a stake and responsibility in finding a resolution to the Kashmir dispute. They understand that the dispute has bedeviled relations between Pakistan and India and its resolution would certainly reduce regional tensions. This does not mean, however, that they agree with Pakistan’s near-fatal obsession with Kashmir. The fact is that Pakistan is unable to force a military solution in Kashmir, and there is a lack of international interest in third-party mediation. Mostly for domestic consumption, Pakistan can continue to ignore reality and hope it can force India to the negotiating table through international pressure, but this does not seem feasible with India’s growing international clout.

Arguably the Kashmir dispute has added to Pakistan’s political and economic dysfunctionality. Keeping Kashmir central in its bilateral relationship with India has cost Pakistan dearly. Successive political leaders and generals have sought to exploit Indian belligerence on Kashmir as a strategic threat to Pakistan. This has masked the rampant problems of patronage, corruption and incompetence of the country’s governing structures. These are the real threats to a prosperous and stable Pakistan. Moreover, Pakistan’s average growth rate has been about three percent in the last twenty years and its tax: GDP ratio is nine percent. By this measure — GDP growth and tax: GDP ratio — Pakistan’s annual defence budget should be no more than one to two billion dollars and certainly not the staggering almost eight billion presently. Pakistan needs huge foreign investment and sharply lower its defence spending to attain high growth rates that will stabilise the country and create a barrier to internal violence. Being drawn into an unsustainable arms race with a stable and growing India over Kashmir is a certain recipe for disaster for Pakistan. Focusing on growing trade and commerce with India seems the more logical way forward for Pakistan.

On its part, India cannot ignore the genuine alienation of the people of Kashmir from years of Indian misrule. This is reflected in the Kashmiri people periodically revolting against the brutal repression by Indian forces. However, in the present day, the calls for independence and revolution in Kashmir have little to do with Pakistan. Pakistan’s own poor human rights and democratic record, the failed Kargil adventure, which nearly resulted in another Pak-Indo war and state support for terror groups operating in the region, have diminished Pakistan’s moral standing on Kashmir.

Ultimately, the policymakers in Pakistan and India must find the political will and have a vital role to play in any Kashmir solution. Probably, the first step towards the resolution of the dispute is for both Pakistan and India to abandon their past power-centric approach to the conflict and involve the people of the territory in dispute resolution. Secondly, the proxy war between Pakistan and India in Kashmir must come to an end. Security cooperation between Pakistan and India should sustain the present abatement in cross-border terrorism and ensure that terrorist elements are not able to re-establish the environment of fear and violence. This should remove the need for large permanent deployments of Indian troops to provide security in the region, a major cause of friction with the local population.

While the forces in Pakistan and India that have benefited from decades of violence in Kashmir will create maximum obstacles, the peace dividend from the resolution of the longstanding dispute will accrue to all parties. With its near-mortal preoccupation with Kashmir removed, Pakistan can focus on better controlling its borders, improving its economic fundamentals and regaining the trust of the international community. A resolution of the Kashmir issue would help in bringing about a stable and prosperous Pakistan, which would be in India’s interest as well. It remains to be seen whether Pakistan will continue to contest the status of Kashmir, spend significant resources on conventional deterrence, and posit India as a major threat or that it will accept that a fundamental change in its Kashmir posture is in the national interest, and not merely a response to international cajoling.

Cheers Image


I agree with Mr. Hammond. The British should set an example to India and Pakistan by entering into negotiations with Argentina over the Melvinas/Falkland Islands. What is a country doing with a territory that is 8,000 miles away on another hemispheres than its own? Surely Argentina has better claim to Melvinas as it is only 300 miles from its shores. So in good faith the British should start negotiations with the Argentines as soon as possible and decide the ownership of the islands. India should be willing to lend its "good offices" as an intermediary between the UK and Argentina or they can request the U.N. to help with this intractable problem that has plagued the two countries as they have even went to war with each other over these islands. There isn't a moment lose.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 10 May 2016 22:55

It is nice to see fourfather baring fangs. Wonder how these people talk about Kashmir and not about Kashmiri Pandits and other Hindu communities, or for that matter Balochistan.

It is inhuman but these people seem to be well trained in ignoring human rights certain way.

I think Indians are the only ones sticking to UN resolution of Kashmir after one-sided ceasefire when Pakis were losing. On the other hand, Pakis have renegaded everything they signed on, including Simla agreement and even fought wars.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby prahaar » 10 May 2016 23:07

In keeping with line with GOI terminology, would it make sense to rename the thread Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir?

--------------

Added later: Thanks.
Last edited by prahaar on 11 May 2016 14:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir: News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 11 May 2016 13:07

prahaar, tks for pointing it out. Title is now changed.

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Re: Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir: News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 11 May 2016 18:04

Inserting PoK into the Kashmir Conundrum - Priyanka Singh, IDSA
Enwrapped in the conventional atmospherics of cautious optimism at one level and politico-diplomatic acrimony at another, the recent meeting between the Foreign Secretaries of India and Pakistan ended on the well beaten note — Kashmir. Breaking established protocol, Pakistan issued a statement even before the talks concluded, yet again reiterating Kashmir as the core issue by noting that “it was vital to find a just solution to this long standing issue, as per the UN Security Council resolutions and wishes of the Kashmiri people.”1

Lately, the euphoric sense of vindication, especially as India had managed to secure primacy for terrorism over Kashmir in the Ufa statement, i.e., no talks without action on terror by Pakistan, stands somewhat diluted. India-Pakistan ties witnessed significant momentum at the cusp of 2015-16. The intense political elation generated by Prime Minister Modi’s visit to Lahore got quickly dissipated by the Pathankot attack. Despite the visit of the Pakistan JIT (Joint Investigation Team), India has raised the ante against Jaish-e-Mohammed and its chief, Masood Azhar. The subsequent arrest of an alleged Indian RAW agent by Pakistan, which has accused him of brewing trouble in restive Balochistan, is perceived as an attempt to neutralize India’s growing demand for tangible action against terror. Coinciding with that, Pakistan raising the Kashmir bogey once again has pushed negotiations back to square one.

Pakistan’s Kashmir gambit is neither new nor surprising. Un-substantive as it is, it nevertheless adds some energy to the mostly bound-to-fizzle media frenzy in both countries, resulting in exchange of statements and counters from both sides. Pakistan’s core strategy each time it brings up the Kashmir issue has been to put India on the defensive. Perceptibly, India has been portrayed as looking edgy each time the Kashmir card is played by Pakistan. But the fact remains that the basic contention between the two countries lies in the order of priority in which negotiations are carried out — India wants terrorism to be discussed in a substantive manner ahead of other issues, while Pakistan unfailingly raises Kashmir as the core issue.

In this context, certain concrete and viable options need to be explored and tested by India to blunt Pakistan’s propaganda, vital among which could be raising the issue of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) in an assertive manner. Apart from sticking to its principled stand on persuading Pakistan to act against terrorism, India needs to proactively buttress its broader position on the issue of PoK every time the issue of Kashmir comes up in bilateral discussions. By doing so, India will be adhering to its official stance on PoK governed by the Parliamentary resolution of 1994. Whether India likes it not, Pakistan will never forgo an opportunity to rake up the Kashmir issue, bilaterally or otherwise. Hence, parallel to supporting the dialogue and peace process, it is imperative that that India thinks in terms of formulating an alternate strategy— a plan B in which PoK is pivotally and strategically positioned.

Pakistan’s J&K, India’s PoK

Pakistan has optimized gains vis-a-vis Kashmir by investing considerable political and diplomatic capital on the issue. It has manipulated global realities to its advantage and rallied hard to ensure international receptivity, which appears somewhat inclined towards the Pakistani position on Kashmir. India, on the other hand, has traditionally avoided making major pronouncements on PoK. While it has never explicitly spelt out the idea of converting the Line of Control into a permanent border, its muted policy on PoK has shaped common perceptions that India has bypassed its claim to the region i.e., the remainder of the erstwhile princely state of Jammu and Kashmir under Pakistan’s occupation since 1947. Besides, India’s episodic reactions to infrastructure building and Chinese activities in PoK have not accrued much strategic vantage.

Sifting through joint statements and press notes, it is hard to ascertain whether PoK has ever effectively figured in the India-Pakistan bilateral agenda, though the possibility of it being discussed or alluded to during backchannels cannot be categorically ruled out. Nonetheless, gross neglect and lack of robust policy articulation spanning decades calls for course correction in the Indian approach, in terms of gradually shifting the policy thrust on PoK and graduating from a reactive to proactive mode, generating greater awareness through public statements and checking public misperceptions at large. Backed by government pronouncements, PoK related issues should be disseminated much more in the public domain than ever before. This could potentially shore up media coverage of PoK— a region more or less under a state of virtual media neglect within India, unlike in Pakistan’s mainstream and vernacular media where Kashmir consistently features as the predominant byte.

Retain J&K, Claim PoK


Discussing India’s “progressive neglect” of PoK, the Non Alignment 2.0 document posits that India needs to proactively pursue its claim on the PoK region to impede perceptions that the ultimate resolution of the Kashmir problem will be premised on a “LoC plus solution”, based on the LoC as the “starting point” of negotiation.2 It is, therefore, in India’s larger interest that it strengthens its negotiating strategy by prudently pinning PoK to the bilateral agenda dealing with Kashmir. Adding PoK as a potential strategic leveller could diminish Pakistan’s Kashmir propaganda during and after the talks. Additionally, India could possibly leverage the fact that there is a democracy-deficit in PoK which could dent Pakistan’s international support base.

The two sides of J&K have been separated for decades during which both parts have undergone transitions of various kinds, the most significant being the demographic transformation in PoK. Nonetheless, there still exists a degree of political cohesion and unanimity vis a vis the broader issue of Kashmir’s future. This was manifest recently in the Hurriyat’s (All Parties Hurriyat Conference) expression of unequivocal reservations on Pakistan’s attempt to subsume Gilgit Baltistan as its fifth province. Such circumstantial realities existing in J&K need to be taken into account while India firms up its policy course on PoK.

The latest statement from the Pakistani side advocates a solution of Kashmir through UNSC (United Nations Security Council) resolutions. Notably, these resolutions apply to PoK as well, and therefore, cannot be implemented in Indian J&K in isolation. India needs to reaffirm the demilitarization clause as an essential pre-condition preceding the proposed plebiscite that requires Pakistan to first withdraw its military forces from areas belonging to the erstwhile princely state of J&K, which are currently under its control. The stigma of Indian non-compliance is based on a selective reading of the UNSC resolutions. India needs to gradually set things right in this regard by adopting an inclusive, concerted and coherent approach on PoK and all related issues.

PoK: An Effective Counter-balancer?

India’s high rates of economic growth and global aspirations have given rise to innumerable pressures and expectations from all quarters. While India prepares to deal with such pressures, both in the medium and long term, ceding territory in any form could be construed as a sign of weakness. This could potentially affect India’s regional and global ambitions. India has no option but to uphold its territorial integrity. In this regard, inserting PoK in the bilateral agenda could be a useful long term strategic investment. Leveraging PoK as a bargaining chip would help sustain India’s geopolitical interests against an arch adversary, uphold territorial limits and enhance negotiating capability during crucial talks on Kashmir. Pakistan may resist or ignore talking about PoK, which would only bolster India’s position on the broader issue.

Re-asserting claims on PoK will accord further legitimacy to India’s reservations on the upcoming strategic China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), a critical portion of which cuts through PoK (read Gilgit Baltistan). As India continues to be boxed by the Chinese-led region-wide infrastructural juggernaut, and now getting hemmed in by the very concept of a multi-billion dollar CPEC, it is time that India thinks about ways and means to tide over the stratagem unleashed by Pakistan together with China. Stepping up the ante on PoK is a positive and concrete step to begin with in this regard.


Only India would have kept silent about POK including GB all these 69 years. Any other country in a similar situation would have gone hammer and tongs against the occupying nation. India not only conceded territory but also kept quiet with its tail between its hind legs when it was militarily, economically and politically several times stronger than its puny breakaway piece of real-estate.

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Re: Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir: News & Discussion

Postby vishvak » 11 May 2016 18:10

India can cancel unilateral ceasefire to begin clearing out invading rabid dogs. If pakis want to threaten with nukes then project Pakistan can be dismantled too i.e. another problem solved.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 02 Oct 2016 15:42

In Kotli, Pakistan-occupied Kashmir residents take to streets against atrocities by ISI and Pakistani army - ToI
Kotli residents in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) recently took to the streets to protest against the atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army+ and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). The agitation was launched against extra-judicial killings, fake encounters and brutalities committed on pro-Azadi leaders, who disagree with the Pakistan State.

The angry mob raised slogans such as "Butcher of Kashmiris, Pakistan Army", "Dogs are more loyal than ISI".

The protesters demand an independent investigation into the murder of Arif Shahid, a major Kashmiri nationalist leader, chairman of the All Parties National Alliance (APNA), and president of the Jammu Kashmir National Liberation Conference (JKNLC).

Shahid fought tooth and nail against Pakistan's oppression in PoK before he was shot outside his residence in Rawalpindi on May 14, 2013. He was 62. Investigation into Shahid's murder is still inconclusive, and there is no closure in the cold-blooded murder, so far. The ISI is blamed for conspiring and executing Shahid's murder.


According to an estimate by the All Party National Alliance based in Muzaffarabad, more than one hundred pro-freedom political activists have been killed by the ISI over the past two years.

There is growing resentment among PoK residents over the killings as well as the continued army clampdown.

Earlier, PoK witnessed a series of protests by residents against rigged polls that saw Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's party, the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz), coming to power.

The United States' State Department has recently also expressed concern over human rights violation in PoK, maintaining that it has always been urging parties in Pakistan to settle their differences "peaceably and through a valid political process".

U.S. States Department spokesperson Mark Toner+ said he could not agree with the view that nobody knew about human rights violations in PoK before Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi highlighted that in recent times.

"Sure, Well, I would respectfully beg to differ. We do have concerns about the human rights situation there, have reported it for several years in our Human Rights Report, and we've obviously - are always urging all parties in Pakistan to work out their differences peaceably and through a valid political process. And with respect to Kashmir, our policy there is well known," he said.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Kashi » 06 Oct 2016 09:46

ANI ‏@ANI_news
Residents of Muzaffarabad, Kotli, Chinari, Mirpur, Gilgit, Diamer & Neelum Valley (PoK) say life made a living hell by terror training camps.
Image


ANI ‏@ANI_news
‏Local people and leaders in various parts of PoK protest against terror camps which they confirm are thriving there.
Image

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 06 Oct 2016 13:02

Why Pak has failed all along in attempts too internationalise the Kashmir dispute. Veteran Brit journo OBJ has this to say.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1288199/blip-on-the-radar
Blip on the radar
OWEN BENNETT-JONES
The writer is a British journalist and author of Pakistan: Eye of the Storm.
FOR years, Pakistani bureaucrats, politicians and army chiefs have wondered: ‘how can we get the world to take an interest in Kashmir?’ The state’s diplomats have presented the case to their counterparts in foreign capitals. The military men have raised it with their opposite numbers abroad and the spin doctors have implored foreign journalists to write about the issue. And yet it never seems to happen.

After all, other national causes do attract international sympathy. Islamabad’s close relationship with Beijing may mean that the Tibetans don’t enjoy much support from Pakistanis, ?but around the world there is significant moral backing for Tibetan rights. Similarly, the Kurds have managed to convince many that they have suffered a historical injustice. Others such as the East Timorese, the South Sudanese, the Bosnians and the Kosovans have managed to break free of those who they believed were oppressing them. Why is Kashmir different?

Certain characteristics of the Kashmir dispute are unusual. First and foremost, Kashmir is the subject of an international bilateral dispute. Many of the currently active independence movements around the world — take for example the Scots, the Uyghurs and the Baloch — consist of local nationalists using various tactics, violent and peaceful, to struggle against their govern­ment. And although many Kashmiris may see their campaign in those terms, the involvement of Islamabad and New Delhi has always made it more complicated. Were the Kashmiris to achieve some of their objec­tives, New Delhi would not only suffer the loss of territory but also a defeat at the hands of Islamabad. Put another way, the juxtaposed interests of Islamabad and New Delhi have made it more difficult for Kashmiris who want to break free of India to couch the demands as a straightforward battle for their rights.

Why isn’t the world interested in Kashmir?
The long-standing ambivalence of Kashmir’s leading political family reveals another aspect of the problem. In their less idealistic moments, some Kashmiris fear what independence would look like. I once asked Farooq Abdullah why he was not more supportive of those Kashmiri youths who refused to give up on their commitment to Kashmiri self-determination. With a sense of world-weary resignation he outlined his perspective, sitting in Srinigar. Kashmir, he explained, was a small landlocked country surrounded by three nuclear powers; it was impossible to go it alone.

The economic disparity between India and Pakistan is also important. Most Western governments crave access to the Indian market. The more the Indian economy powers ahead, the more acute the craving. If Pakistan’s 200 million consumers had the wealth to buy significant amounts of Western goods then the country’s diplomats would find it easier to get heard. Perhaps understandably, given the number of short-term crises it has faced, the Pakistani military has never understood that the advancement of Pakistan’s national interests lies as much in reforming the economy as it does in securing big defence budgets. Pakistan’s projection of power on the world stage depends not so much on its stock of guns as on the excellence of its schools and the ability to produce citizens who can generate economic growth.

The Kashmiris face yet another problem. Independence movements associated with violent jihadism run counter to the post 9/11 policy of the great powers — Russia included — to resist Islamic extremism wherever they see it. Back in the late 1980s when the Kashmiri insurgency began, it was led by the predominately nationalist JKLF. Be­cause the latter was committed to Kashmiri inde­pendence rather than union with Pakis­tan, the security establishment decided to switch its support to a group with more pro-Pakistan sentiment and which it could more easily control: Hizbul Mujahideen. While the move made sense to those pro­moting the interests of the Pakistan state, it has coloured the Kashmiri movement ever since. And few in the inter­national com­m­u­nity are going to be very enthu­siastic about transferring power from the secular Indian government to local politicians in Kashmir who may, at some stage, be unable to resist the jihadists in their midst.

In the weeks after 9/11, when the US needed Pakistan’s support, Islamabad’s generals and diplomats were successful in deftly managing to decouple Kashmir from the rest of the so-called war on terror. Despite occasionally going off script — Donald Rumsfeld, for example, said in 2002 that Al Qaeda was training in Kashmir — US officials took great care to avoid describing the Kashmiri struggle as part of the same phenomenon they were combating in Afghanistan, northwest Pakistan, the Middle East and North Africa. But even if the Kashmiri movement has never been directly in the Pentagon’s sights, it is quite another thing to expect Western capitals to back a movement that uses jihad to fire up some of its supporters. And to those who indignantly argue that it is exactly what the US did when it paid the mujahideen to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan comes the obvious riposte: once bitten, twice shy. :mrgreen:

The writer is a British journalist and author of Pakistan: Eye of the Storm.

Published in Dawn October6th, 2016

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby pralay » 06 Oct 2016 14:06

RoyG wrote:IMO, as long as we are unable define ourselves as a dharmic state and lack a strategic culture to protect and project it, all we can do is really sit and stare from a distance.

I can't really see how announcing India as Land of Dharma, will make masses understand and act as per our national interests. Rather, it will make the nation stuck with "Morally High" behaviour.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 06 Oct 2016 14:50

Terrorists training camps are making our life hell, say PoK residents - Shailaja Neelakantan, Economic Times
In a damning indictment of Islamabad, protesting residents of Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir (PoK) said their lives have been made a living hell by the presence of terrorist training camps thriving in the area, ANI reported.

Comments made by residents of Muzaffarabad, Kotli, Chinari, Mirpur, Gilgit, Diamer and Neelum Valley, in PoK - who protested there today - have given the lie to Islamabad's pronouncements denying the existence of such camps and the Pakistani state's support for them.

"Banned organisations, terror camps are provided food and ration here, we condemn it," a local leader in Muzaffarabad, PoK, told ANI. Another local, from the Gilgit area, said that "if management doesn't end Taliban's terror camps and 'no-go' areas in Diamer, Gilgit, Baseen and others, then we'll take action."

Last week, India conducted surgical strikes on seven terrorist launch pads across the Line of Control (LoC) in PoK. Commandos killed at least 38 terrorists there. Pakistan has continued to deny any surgical strikes took place.

PoK residents also said "terrorism needs to be eliminated (as) giving shelter to terrorists won't solve the issue."

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ashbhee » 10 Oct 2016 05:42

Is it possible or feasible to take back POK by force?

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby K Mehta » 10 Oct 2016 15:17

Not yet

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 17 Oct 2017 05:45

PAKISTAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR ON INDIA’S POLICY MAP
GEOPOLITICAL DRIVERS, STRATEGIC IMPACT

Lately, there is perceptible change in the general tenor of India’s foreign policy especially vis a vis calibrated efforts towards making gripping policy pronouncements. In the context of the overall approach to foreign policy and as an issue of immediate strategic relevance, it is hoped that PoK refigures on the agenda of the Government of India— this time forcefully and meaningfully. The present dispensation in New Delhi has taken certain concrete steps which indicate a possible desire to shed past policy inertia on PoK. In order to ensure a more robust approach on PoK, some long and medium term measures need to fructify before one can conclusively gauge whether a fundamental shift in India’s approach on PoK is underway. Nonetheless, Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s proclamation from the ramparts of the Red Fort is a positive beginning. While carefully evaluating the geopolitical environment, especially China’s intent and forays into PoK, it is high time India draws a roadmap regarding how to secure India’s territorial and strategic interests vis a vis China and Pakistan’s persisting collusion on Kashmir.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby arun » 08 Feb 2019 19:21

X Posted from the Terroristan thread.

Jammu & Kashmir has more freedom than Pakistan, says US report

Not the first time that Freedom House in their annual report titled “Freedom In The World” has rated the level of Freedom in Jammu & Kashmir as greater than that in the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Excerpt from Eco Times:

In its recently-released annual report, Freedom in the World 2019, the watchdog said Jammu & Kashmir scored 49 on the 100-point Freedom House Index, while Pakistan scored 39 and PoK a paltry 28. The report also labelled PoK as “not free” in terms of freedom enjoyed by its residents and the functioning of local institutes.

The US was rated 86 on the index, closely followed by India at 75.


For the rankings of countries and territories see here on Freedom House Website:

Freedom in the World Countries

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby venug » 08 Feb 2019 19:40

Terrorists training camps are making our life hell, say PoK residents


We should act and win the hearts of PoK residents, after all they are Indian citizens and we have the right to protect our citizens and strike the camps again at will.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Feb 2019 20:06

^^A free trip to Indian kashmir or rest of India might be a good start. of course they have seen enough of baki rule

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby JayS » 08 Feb 2019 20:15

venug wrote:
Terrorists training camps are making our life hell, say PoK residents


We should act and win the hearts of PoK residents, after all they are Indian citizens and we have the right to protect our citizens and strike the camps again at will.

GOI haven't gathered enough courage to even offer a seat to these citizens in LS and do you really expect we will act as you wish..?

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby venug » 08 Feb 2019 20:43

True sir.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Feb 2019 21:30

JayS wrote:GOI haven't gathered enough courage to even offer a seat to these citizens in LS and do you really expect we will act as you wish..?

I have strong suspcion that there is some secret non public deal between the two countries. This issue was not touched in '47, '71 and was done not done in agra. That's why pakis keep asking for more. Modi govt didnt touch beyond making some rhetorical noises

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 23 Oct 2019 00:32

https://twitter.com/JQ_plaintalk/status ... 7495023617

Peaceful protests in Pakistan Administered J&K against Pakistan's invasion of J&K. Demands raised for freedom.

Pakistani State uses brute force. Dozens injured and two killed.

Yet, we Kashmiris believe that Pakistan is fighting for our freedom.

How does this work ?



https://twitter.com/Taimur_Laal/status/ ... 4744011776 (Video)

People’s National Alliance in Mazafarabad Kashmir protest lathi charged by police. Tear gas and also aerial firing.


https://twitter.com/arifaajakia/status/ ... 9506079744 (Video)

Pakistani Fojiyon .. chorr do Kashmir ko..

Gher Mulki (Pakistani) Jihaadiyon .. Chorr do Kashmir ko..

This is of today.. In PoK..

Kashmiris are fed up of Pakistani Lollipop

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Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Peregrine » 23 Oct 2019 01:10

X Posted on the Trroristani Thread

Pakistan must dump terror for talks with India: US - Chidanand Rajghatta | TNN

WASHINGTON: The foundation of any successful dialogue between India and Pakistan is based on Pakistan taking sustained and irreversible steps against militants and terrorists in its territory, a key administration official told US lawmakers on Tuesday, amid expressions of deep concern and sharp criticism during a Congressional hearing over New Delhi’s handling of the human rights situation in the Kashmir Valley.

In written testimony presented at a hearing on human rights in South Asia, Alice Wells, the US assistant secretary for the region, while welcoming Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s “recent unambiguous statement that terrorists from Pakistan who carry out violence in Kashmir are enemies of both Kashmiris and Pakistan,” nevertheless asserted that “Pakistan’s harboring of terrorist groups like Lashkar-eTaiba and Jaish-e-Muhammed, which seek to foment violence across the Line of Control, is destabilising, and Pakistani authorities remain accountable for their actions.”

“We believe that direct dialogue between India and Pakistan, as outlined in the Shimla Agreement, holds the most potential for reducing tensions. Restarting a productive bilateral dialogue requires building trust, and the chief obstacle remains Pakistan’s continued support for extremist groups that engage in cross-border terrorism, ” Wells said in testimony submitted to the House subcommittee, where several lawmakers sought to discern the administration’s policy while expressing concern about both the human rights situation in the region and the geopolitical aspects of the issue.

Although the hearing was purportedly on “Human rights in South Asia, ” questions from lawmakers, reflecting complaints brought to them by their Kashmiri constituents, centered most on the situation in Kashmir Valley. Several lawmakers, including Washington state’s Pramila Jayapal and Virginia’s Abigail Spanberger, questioned Wells and her counterpart from the human rights bureau Robert Destro about the abnormal situation in the Valley, including alleged detention of children, the curtailment of communication and lack of medical access for the needy, saying it was unacceptable.

Acknowledging that there had been some lifting of restrictions but the situation was far from normal in the Kashmir Valley, the officials told lawmakers that New Delhi had to balance the everyday needs of people and the malafide intention of terrorists as it weighed restoring the full spectrum of communications. They also promised to get back to lawmakers on reports on a number of unlawful detentions while acknowledging that US officials had not been allowed full access to the Valley.

“The security situation in Kashmir remains tense. We are concerned about reports of local and foreign militants attempting to intimidate local residents and business owners in order to stymie normal economic activity. The United States supports the rights of Kashmiris to peacefully protest, but condemns the actions of terrorists who seek to use violence and fear to undermine dialogue,” Wells said in her written testimony, even as lawmakers chose to only reflect the concern of constituents.

At least one lawmaker, Somali-American Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, also excoriated the Modi government for what she described as its “Hindu nationalism project” that involved a broader anti-Muslim approach in India while suggesting the Trump administration had accepted the threat to common values that the strategic partnership was previously based on. But Wells rejected the notion, pointing out that the Indian electorate had twice elected the government, its actions in Jammu and Kashmir were approved by Parliament, and the institutions of India’s democracy were still working.

Asked by another lawmaker what “economic tools” Washington had in its kit to influence India’s behaviour, Wells responded, “With due respect Congressman….this is not a relationship of dictation, it is one of partnership.”

Although several lawmakers expressed concern about the human rights situation in the Valley, the striking feature of the hearing was that there were few questions on India’s action in scrapping the so-called special status for Jammu and Kashmir. Wells said the United States regards the Line of Control as the de facto line of separation between India and Pakistan and recognises the de facto administration on both sides.

Acknowledging that what India had done in J&K was an internal matter, Wells, however, said tension following New Delhi’s actions, much of it because of the long history of support by Pakistan for terrorism and terrorist outfits.

“We have called for the elimination of non-state actors and terrorist proxies so they cannot act in J&K. The more irreversible action we see from Pakistan…the more imperative the dialogue. So we urge circumstances for a constructive dialogue,” Wells told lawmakers.

Cheers Image

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby Kashi » 23 Oct 2019 06:14

This should be here,

Amiruddin Mughal @MughalAmiruddin
Clashes between Police and activities of Pro indipenden kashmir org peoples national Alliance #PNA during a march toward #AJK Assembly many Protesters and police men injured. In #Muzaffrabad the capital of #Pakistan Administered #Kashmir


About the tweeter:
Broadcast journalist 25years @EastWestCenter Fellow CEO @KashmirImage independent filmmaker & Journalist based in Muzaffarabad Pakistan side of Jammu Kashmir

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby menon s » 23 Oct 2019 15:43

The Terror Training camp belonging to the JKLF that was busted on Sunday was in the village of Lamnian, about 30 kms from Chakothi.
You drive along Srinagar Muzaffrabad highway and there is a turn towards Lepa valley road .
The training center was completely demolished, but no casualties report is coming in because they are admitted to CMH Muzafarabad or buried without
sending their body to loved ones.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby menon s » 23 Oct 2019 16:22

do we have artillery that can travel 40 kms?

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby menon s » 23 Oct 2019 16:22

this proves that howitzers were used.

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby menon s » 23 Oct 2019 16:23

[

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Oct 2019 17:33

menon s wrote:The Terror Training camp belonging to the JKLF that was busted on Sunday was in the village of Lamnian, about 30 kms from Chakothi.
You drive along Srinagar Muzaffrabad highway and there is a turn towards Lepa valley road .
The training center was completely demolished, but no casualties report is coming in because they are admitted to CMH Muzafarabad or buried without
sending their body to loved ones.

this is new or old news? we are returning to 90s...

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Re: Pak Occupied Kashmir News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Oct 2019 22:31

menon s wrote:this proves that howitzers were used.

Actually I think precision weapons were used. What exactly is a "launch pad" for terrorists? It says that each LP can accomodate some 10 terrorists at a time. So they must be very small, mostly concealed bunkers or pakistans. 3 were hit when they were probably full of terrorists, hence the shock and number of deaths. (no "hospitalization" and nothing to take back to relatives, IMO). You know what this reminds me of?

During the Donbass festivities in east Ukraine, there was a story from the city of Mariupol.

3 (UkBapZi Ukraine Govt) tanks came and parked inside the school courtyard, behind the high walls. A minute later, one missile came in and struck one tank, totally blew it up. Pieces of the crew were hanging from the trees outside.
Within seconds, another missile hit another tank, and blew that up.
The crew of the 3rd tank scampered out and ran for their lives. No missile came.


India is using precision missiles, and the event demonstrated that India can blast the terrorist camps whenever India pleases. Anywhere along the LOC, and deep inside.

No wonder the Pakis felt the Diwali sweets tasted bitter.


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