Managing Chinese Threat

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2212
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby manjgu » 20 Aug 2013 20:25

regular civilian flts should land at DBO..need to develop tourism in the area. get trekking companies to start treks..climbing...adventure tourism !!

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby shyamd » 21 Aug 2013 01:54

All newspapers are playing up the news when the PRC guys are in Dilli. Clearly China Group in Dilli planned this to send a message. I personally don't think its a credible or strong enough message - but PLA did complain about aircraft in DBO.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 21 Aug 2013 13:30

shyamd wrote:I personally don't think its a credible or strong enough message - but PLA did complain about aircraft in DBO.

Yes, India very cautiously, too cautiously for us here in BRf, calibrates its response. Because of India's over cautiousness, China (and other nations too) misconstrue(s) this as weakness. That is why PRC objects to C-130 at DBO. A little more muscular response is needed.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby harbans » 21 Aug 2013 13:37

This calibrated response after n number of discussions is nothing but crap. There must be a plan, and India does not have one. What if half a dozen Chinese helicopters land off DBO. What will be the Indian response for example? Have we planned for that? I doubt it. When that happens they will hurriedly call of some talk at some 5 star hotel on some non issue and discuss again what calibrated response to make. OR maybe they wont even do that, till some mud is raked up in the media.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 21 Aug 2013 13:54

LIVE! China provokes India again: Troops entered Arunachal, camped for 3-4 days
And this is in spite of globe master being there? Now may be MMS himself will visit the forward posts to boost the morale of our soldiers. May be we should also open travel information kiosks to enable the Chinese soldiers in sight seeing, These days we are getting too many Chinese travelers in those parts.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20427
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Philip » 21 Aug 2013 13:58

Igzackly! Unless DBO and its environs is heavily defended ,the Han hordes will simply saunter in for their usual "picnics" at their pleasure.
Our infrastructure is going to take donkey's years to develop,while the PRC talk about building 200KM tunnels through the Himalayas to Pak,we haven't even improved our mule tracks.

I wonder when our Jawans will be allowed to also go into N.Uttaranchal,N.Ladakh,N.Arunachal,aka Tibet ,for their weekend picnics?

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby shyamd » 21 Aug 2013 22:01

US announce military deployments in Trivandrum - base to be operated by India and in coordination. .. Curious why Trivandrum...

Part of defence against PRC
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/pos ... tary_bases

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 21 Aug 2013 22:18

What about our so virginity?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 22 Aug 2013 18:46

shyamd wrote:US announce military deployments in Trivandrum - base to be operated by India and in coordination. .. Curious why Trivandrum...

Because Trivandrum is the HQ for SAC (Southern Air Command)

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20427
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Philip » 22 Aug 2013 18:57

So now matters regarding Indian defence is announced in Washington! Ha!Ha! Anyway,this servile regime is firmly on its way out cometh the hustings.Well,Trivandrum is the best air base from which to interdict Chinese maritime shipping and their naval forces in the IOR as their tankers transit the Gulf ,around Lanka.

The astonishing clips showing the Chinese indulging in argy-bargy in Ar.Pradesh pushing Indian troops physically in crossing over a wakll which determines the LAC,NOT open land is the clearest indicator of aggression.With surrender-monkeys in charge of the nation's security,unless the Opposition gets its act together and takes the issue to the streets,forcing the regime to get tough..if it can,we will soon find ourselves watching the replay of '62.

vinod
BRFite
Posts: 708
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby vinod » 22 Aug 2013 19:00

shyamd wrote:US announce military deployments in Trivandrum - base to be operated by India and in coordination. .. Curious why Trivandrum...

Part of defence against PRC
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/pos ... tary_bases


why Trivandrum?

Padmanabhaswamy temple with billions of wealth! :)

Garooda
BRFite
Posts: 544
Joined: 13 Jul 2011 00:00

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Garooda » 22 Aug 2013 19:12

shyamd wrote:US announce military deployments in Trivandrum - base to be operated by India and in coordination. .. Curious why Trivandrum...

Part of defence against PRC
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/pos ... tary_bases


Panda_Presence

Possibly remain close to Diego Garcia (Long range bombers & Re-supplies from Trivandrum?) and the Arabian Sea (Gwadar, Karachi and Hambantota which have panda presence)?

Image

On February 18, the Pakistani government transferred operational control of its strategically-located deep-sea port at Gwadar, Balochistan province to China. India, a rival of Pakistan and of China, has expressed concerns over the deal—highlighting the increasingly complex geo-political rivalries stoked by the Obama administration’s policy of “pivot” to Asia.

Gwadar is situated on the Arabian Sea, just 180 nautical miles (330 kilometres) from the Strait of Hormuz, through which a third of the world’s oil supply passes. It offers a prime location to monitor shipping passing through the Strait of Hormuz from the Persian Gulf, as well as access to cheap land routes or Middle East trade through Pakistan into western China and Central Asia.

The agreement to transfer the port to the state-owned China Overseas Port Holding Company was signed in a ceremony attended by Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, several ministers, and Chinese Ambassador Liu Jian. The previous operator, the Port of Singapore Authority (PSA), withdrew after Islamabad refused to provide large land allotments the PSA wanted for development work around the port.

On February 6, after Pakistan announced its decision to hand over the control of the port to China, Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony, expressed “serious concerns” at a news conference, revealing his government’s displeasure over the deal. “In one sentence, I can say that it’s a matter of concern to us,” Antony said.

India’s External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said that India should not “overreact” to the agreement. However, Khurshid indicated what is at stake: “There is a delicate balance in the entire region and I think none of us should be doing something which will upset that balance.”

Downplaying India’s concerns, Pakistan foreign ministry spokesman Moazzaam Ali Khan said no “other country should have any reason to be concerned about [this agreement].” He dismissed Antony’s reaction as “unwarranted.”

Similarly, Chinese Ambassador Jian said the bilateral agreement was “in the economic interest of the people of China and Pakistan.” The Pakistani daily The Nation reported that Jian dismissed “thinking China would use this port for military purposes [as] absolutely baseless.”

However, New Delhi is suspicious about China’s presence in the Indian Ocean and sees its relations with Pakistan as a threat to India’s strategic and economic interests. This rivalry has intensified as Washington seeks to promote India as a world power in its strategy to counter China and to defend its hegemony in Asia.

The US was silent on the port transfer. However, expressing the US elite’s long standing concerns on China and the Gwadar port the New York Times wrote: “Some American strategists have described it as the westernmost link in the ‘string of pearls,’ a line of China-friendly ports stretching from mainland China to the Persian Gulf, that could ultimately ease expansion by the Chinese Navy in the region.”

Indian media and analysts wrote in the same vein that the stretch of Chinese port connections including Chittagong in Bangladesh and Hambantota in Sri Lanka together with Gwadar was part of a Chinese plan “encircling India.”

The US has also elevated India to a special status in the world nuclear regulatory regime, as a nuclear weapons state and non-signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. This luxury was denied to Washington’s long-time ally, Pakistan.

The US “pivot” presents Pakistan with a geo-political dilemma: it has depended on the US and China since the mid-1960s. Pakistan responded to the strengthening of its arch-rival India’s ties with the US by strengthening its ties with China. However, such moves by Islamabad would cut across its relations with Washington, upon which the Pakistani bourgeoisie traditionally relied to base its class rule.

The Pakistan People’s Party-led government signed the Gwadar agreement with China even though Pakistan’s former military dictator, Pervez Musharraf, opted in 2007 for the PSA not to upset Washington. Musharraf did this even though China provided 75 percent of the $US250 million cost of construction.

Soon after the US raid killing Osama Bin Laden in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, Pakistan offered the port to China in May, 2011. Though China reportedly turned down the offer, then-Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar also offered to build a naval base in Gwadar for the Chinese.

The US’ growing global rivalry with China has become caught up with Pakistan-India tensions and is intensifying them. The “comprehensive peace dialogue” between them has effectively been suspended since November 2008. Last month, deadly clashes erupted over the Line of Control in the disputed Kashmir region.

For China, the port agreement provides vast potential benefits. Lin Boqiang, director of Energy Economics Research centre at Xiamen University, explained: “I do believe China will build the port at the astonishing ‘Chinese speed’ to materialise the port’s strategic values.” Gwadar offers a shorter route to western China—via the recently expanded Karakoram highway across Gilgit-Baltistan in northern Pakistan—and an alternative route to vulnerable sea lanes through the Strait of Malacca.

Sixty percent of oil imports to China come from the Persian Gulf while 80 percent of total oil imports have to cross the Strait of Malacca before reaching the mainland—putting China, the world’s biggest energy consumer, in significant jeopardy from the threat of a US Navy blockade of the Strait of Malacca. Choking point with base in Singapore ?The race to secure energy supply routes by China and India is driving a naval arms race for so-called “blue-water navy” capabilities. The US backs India’s projection of its naval power in the Indian Ocean and encourages it to be assertive in the region.

India has joined the US in cutting across Chinese interests in the South China Sea under the guise of “freedom of navigation.” Referring to Chinese opposition to joint Indian oil exploration with Vietnam in the South China Sea, Indian Naval Chief Admiral D.K. Joshi warned last December that when the “country’s interests [are] at stake, we will be required to go there and we are prepared for that.”

Attempts were made later to downplay the significance of the comment, but it underscores the hair-trigger military tensions building up in Asia. These tensions include the deep internal conflicts within Pakistan itself.

Gwadar is located in politically volatile Baluchistan Province, which has poor infrastructure and is gripped with the insurgency of separatist Baluchi nationalist groups. These groups are fighting the Pakistani military and demanding autonomy. Some have appealed to Washington for support and have opposed China’s building of the port at Gwadar.

The US has refused Pakistani requests for the Baluchi insurgents to be placed on a list of terrorist organizations. Sections of the US political establishment have even raised the possibility of supporting “Baluchi self-determination” to warn Islamabad not to tie itself too closely to Beijing.
Last edited by Garooda on 22 Aug 2013 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 19:18

US plan to station military aircraft in India? Govt denies

The General's views have created a sort of unease here. Top Defence Ministry sources said the Ministry is not discussing with the US any plans to base its assets on Indian soil.

"India is not going to allow any foreign country to establish any military base on it's soil," the sources said.

"India carefully maintains ties with countries in the world. As a policy, we are not part of any military and do not intend to be part of any in future as well," they said.

Reacting critically to the US move, the CPI-M said the remarks of the US Air Force General reveals the Pentagon's plans to draw India into its strategic alliance in Asia.

The US has been keen to use our air and naval bases. It is based on the India-US military framework agreement signed in 2006, CPI-M General Secretary Prakash Karat said in his reaction.

He asked the UPA government to publicly state whether it was agreeing to such an arrangement.

"India cannot become a military ally of the US," he said.

Garooda
BRFite
Posts: 544
Joined: 13 Jul 2011 00:00

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Garooda » 22 Aug 2013 19:22

venug wrote:US plan to station military aircraft in India? Govt denies
The General's views have created a sort of unease here. Top Defence Ministry sources said the Ministry is not discussing with the US any plans to base its assets on Indian soil.
"India is not going to allow any foreign country to establish any military base on it's soil," the sources said.
"India carefully maintains ties with countries in the world. As a policy, we are not part of any military and do not intend to be part of any in future as well," they said.
Reacting critically to the US move, the CPI-M said the remarks of the US Air Force General reveals the Pentagon's plans to draw India into its strategic alliance in Asia.
The US has been keen to use our air and naval bases. It is based on the India-US military framework agreement signed in 2006, CPI-M General Secretary Prakash Karat said in his reaction.
He asked the UPA government to publicly state whether it was agreeing to such an arrangement.
"India cannot become a military ally of the US," he said.

Remains to be seen how long they'll play the media game for the rest of the world of not supporting USAF presence/base in India.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SwamyG » 22 Aug 2013 19:44

Times Now, has a video footage of Indian soldiers negotiating with the Chinese solders who intruded into the Indian territory. Beijing lies exposed. There is video, and clear audio of an Indian soldier explaining the issues. Massive political failure.

Brave Indian Soldier. Hats off to the Major.
Last edited by SwamyG on 22 Aug 2013 20:37, edited 1 time in total.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 19:54

SwamyG garu, links please

kuldipchager
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:35
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby kuldipchager » 22 Aug 2013 20:05

This is pro Western propaganda on Indian sovernity. India will never allowed foreign bases.We never did before.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 20:08

Every thing is possible when one is impotent and servile.

SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16102
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SwamyG » 22 Aug 2013 20:39

venug wrote:SwamyG garu, links please

Watch Times Now, if you can right now. Arnab is shouting and calling the Indian Government out.

OT: My mother-in-law who was watching the footage, thought MMS or Anthony should have been in the Indian soldier's position. The video footage is 21 minutes long.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 20:40

Thank you.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20427
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Philip » 22 Aug 2013 20:52

This regime specialises in "back-door" entry! Throughout its rule we've seen the "back door" being used as the main route to serve US interests,whether it was to surrender to Paki interests over Baluchistan,Kashmir,Siachen, Sir Creek,whatever.As the saying goes,"no smoke without fire". From the initial report,it is clear that Indian foreign policy is being shaped by the Pentagon and US State Dept.The same is then transmitted via the rear opening,in stealth,by PMO/NSA "chauffeurs",without the knowledge of all barring the PMO's core conspirators,the quislings and lackeys.Unfortunately,discretion is not part of the Yanqui mentality.It likes to show the world who the boss is. Perhaps this was also a trial balloon,to prepare the nation,preoccupied with scams and the eco crisis,slipped in quietly not to attract much controversy.A de-facto operational status would then take place ,whereby US armed forces would "use" Indian territory like it has with a rent-boy Pak.The actual surrender of Indian sovereignity hidden within the fine print of various FMS acquisitions.Moral of the story,we're bending over waiting to be "shafted".

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 21:00

Worse is we are already shafted, but we don't know. Ignorance is bliss till it explodes in our face in the form of losing our land or "so virginity".

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4069
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Lilo » 22 Aug 2013 21:15

venug wrote:US plan to station military aircraft in India? Govt denies

The General's views have created a sort of unease here. Top Defence Ministry sources said the Ministry is not discussing with the US any plans to base its assets on Indian soil.

"India is not going to allow any foreign country to establish any military base on it's soil," the sources said.

"India carefully maintains ties with countries in the world. As a policy, we are not part of any military and do not intend to be part of any in future as well," they said.

Reacting critically to the US move, the CPI-M said the remarks of the US Air Force General reveals the Pentagon's plans to draw India into its strategic alliance in Asia.

The US has been keen to use our air and naval bases. It is based on the India-US military framework agreement signed in 2006, CPI-M General Secretary Prakash Karat said in his reaction.

He asked the UPA government to publicly state whether it was agreeing to such an arrangement.

"India cannot become a military ally of the US," he said.


Though I am incensed by this development , the anti-US space cannot be ceded to these CPI-M turn coats - one should never forget the role of Sitaram Yechury, Karat's comrade in arms - in pleading with US president to grant political favors.

abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2597
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby abhik » 22 Aug 2013 21:24

venug wrote:Every thing is possible when one is impotent and servile.

Yup, we have done that before and will do in the future too. All a factor of how much s*it has hit the fan.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby harbans » 22 Aug 2013 22:07

Indian troops were physically holding Chinese troops and pushing them away. That kind of thing can easily lead from one thing to another. The Indian Major was saying you can't say this Land is ours. The Chinese was saying Arunachal is ours. That is the on the ground contention. The Indian troop is weighed in by the fact that his Govt is casual, considers this not clearly demarcated land, meanwhile the Chinese soldier believes he is absolutely right and that India is the occupying country in Arunachal. He will only withdraw with reluctance. He is much more convinced of the sanctity of his aggression than possibly the Indian soldier who is being told this land is contentious. Thus our only option is to raise Tibet and it's freedom and openly talk to the Chinese about implementing a plebiscite in accordance to numerous UN resolutions. That is the correct course to chart.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby shyamd » 22 Aug 2013 22:12

SSridhar wrote:Because Trivandrum is the HQ for SAC (Southern Air Command)

Thanks - was wondering what the geo strategic reason for Trivandrum. My feeling is that it is less of a immediate threat to PRC. Strategists prob thought Basing in Kalikunda might ruffle PRC feathers too much... In 2001, the NDA allowed US troops to have presence in NE - which was a signal to PRC.

Incidentally, NSA menon after his trip to the US said we can't rely on the US for defence against PRC and will have to do it ourselves.

member_22872
BRFite
Posts: 1873
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby member_22872 » 22 Aug 2013 22:45

If only GOI held on and never recognized that Tibet as an autonomous part of China, the Boundaries of China would have been somewhere else. Now since we recognized Tibet as it's part now they contend it's boundaries. A self goal. No idea why we make self goals and then repent later. This can be scaled back with aggression alone.

If History is what dictates boundaries not the ground realities, then we should lay claim to Afghanistan to the west, Burma to the east, and also parts of Tibet. I dream of some Indian leader with a spine say these and see what unfolds...I have the freedom to dream no?, we are free and democratic country after all.

rajrang
BRFite
Posts: 415
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 08:08

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby rajrang » 22 Aug 2013 23:18

Question for All:

What should India do if Chinese aircraft or helicopters land at DBO?

Should there be some physical barriers to doing so - which can be temporarily removed each time an Indian aircraft is using the air strip?

kuldipchager
BRFite
Posts: 117
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 20:35
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby kuldipchager » 22 Aug 2013 23:33

rajrang

Post subject: Re: Managing Chinese Threat

PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013 23:18



Offline
BRFite

Joined: 24 Jul 2006 08:08
Posts: 356

Question for All:

What should India do if Chinese aircraft or helicopters land at DBO?

Should there be some physical barriers to doing so - which can be temporarily removed each time an Indian aircraft is using the air strip?



What kind of q? is?

Well, we should kiss there feet.
Or we should shoot them down so they don't try to do it again.


rajrang
BRFite
Posts: 415
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 08:08

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby rajrang » 22 Aug 2013 23:48

My question is serious.

Six months ago someone could have asked a question such as - what will India do if a group of Chinese soldiers entered 20 km into India and camped there for weeks. It may then have seemed like a silly question - off course India will throw them out. In reality it took a lot of diplomatic efforts to get them out.

After all DBO is only a few km from LAC and an aircraft could travel that distance in a short time. I doubt India will shoot the intruding aircraft. They may wish to underline that DBO is also "disputed."

Most likely, ITBP, army will surround the aircraft after it has landed and allow diplomatic actions to resolve the matter.

Perhaps India could take physical procession of the aircraft and "allow" the intruding personnel to leave? (Honestly I have not thought this question out myself.)

But the point of the question is that should India take some pre-emptive measures in anticipation of a Chinese move along these lines. Something like this could happen at any of India's airfields close to the border, not just DBO.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21111
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Prem » 23 Aug 2013 00:05

Stratgeic Review in order now.

Time to test the Wadda Patakha in Himala to observe if the NSA shock waves touches the right shores, boundaries and big dams across the area.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 23 Aug 2013 03:06

Uneasy Partners, Japan & South Korea, Join US Air Drills - Business Line
Japan and South Korea’s unprecedented joint participation in air force exercises over the state of Alaska shows that America’s two staunchest Asian allies are willing to cooperate on security despite their political differences.

Their aircraft have been flying the annual Red Flag Alaska training drills that end on Friday, along with US and Australian forces. The exercise has included simulated combat maneuvers in which Korean fighter jets helped secure air space for military transport planes from Japan and other nations.

In recent years, Seoul and Tokyo have taken tentative steps to improve security cooperation. They have exchanged observers during military exercises and engaged together in naval training drills. But this is the first time their fighter jets have flown in the same exercise.

Jim Schoff, a former Pentagon adviser for East Asia policy, said that’s a sign Japan and South Korea are not letting their bilateral frictions prevent a slow and steady improvement in their military cooperation. But he said the cooperation remains limited, and is no cure for their political differences that last year derailed a bilateral agreement on sharing military information.

The tensions are rooted in Korean anger over Japan’s attitude toward its colonial past and use of Korean sex slaves during World War II. The two nations also have conflicting claims to tiny Korean-administered islands in the seas between them.

Last week, two Japanese Cabinet ministers visited a shrine dedicated to 2.5 million Japanese war dead, including war criminals. Such visits anger Seoul and Beijing, which also suffered under Japanese colonial occupation. However, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, known for his hawkish views, stayed away from the Yasukuni Shrine.

On the face of it, Japan and South Korea have many of reasons to work together on security. Both are prosperous democracies and host to tens of thousands of American forces.

They share a common interest in deterring a nuclear-armed and unpredictable neighbor: North Korea.

The two-week Alaska exercise, which ends Friday, involves about 60 aircraft and 2,600 personnel, including from the US Air Force, Navy and Marines. Japan and Australia have participated in the annual exercise before, but it is South Korea’s first time.

The exercise is a chance for participants to sharpen their combat skills in a realistic threat environment and integrate various forces in joint training, US Air Force Capt. Joost Verduyn said in an emailed response to questions.

Leonard
BRFite
Posts: 157
Joined: 15 Nov 2000 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Leonard » 23 Aug 2013 03:18

Video of the Chinese --

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 979719.cms

My uncle spent 35 years on this border, and the "kangress" has made our soldiers appear powerless & handicapped !!

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby habal » 23 Aug 2013 08:12

Philip wrote:The astonishing clips showing the Chinese indulging in argy-bargy in Ar.Pradesh pushing Indian troops physically in crossing over a wakll which determines the LAC,NOT open land is the clearest indicator of aggression.With surrender-monkeys in charge of the nation's security,unless the Opposition gets its act together and takes the issue to the streets,forcing the regime to get tough..if it can,we will soon find ourselves watching the replay of '62.


It is part of a move of sequenced escalations. Recall Lt Gen G.D. Bakshi saying that same thing (pushing & shoving i.e.) was happening at Nathu La in 1967 when Indian soldiers were tasked to barb wire a section of the border, and were opposed by the Chinese. That had then escalated to full-blown conflict when one Chinese commissar gave orders to his troops to 'retaliate' and 'avenge the humiliation', upon receiving radio instructions from HQ, the pushing & shoving troops went into their bunkers, opened the hatches and started shooting. On that day 70 Indian soldiers were killed. And then as retaliation 400 Chinese had died in that same sector flaring into full-blown conflict. He said this is the initial stages of a process of setting up the opposition for a dramatic "self-defensive counter-strike operation" (in chinese words) in which the chinese go for the kill and occupy territory using heavy weapons.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 23 Aug 2013 08:36

That scenario by Lt. Gen. Bakshi is the most likely one. When we say, China is likely to attack us, we may not mean a full scale war which neither side would want at this juncture for different reasons. But, the Chinese are certainly planning to go one notch up in their usual plan of incrementally occupying our land (or laying claim to our land) by going in now for a more determined effort that may see a very localized confrontation. Both sides would be determined to limit to a local level but the Chinese may be hoping to gain in the bargain because India will be only defending. By all accounts, it was more physical in the latest incident. The Chinese intentions are more obvious now. The Chinese are setting up a trap for 'self-defensive counter-offensive'. Their actions in Senkaku or for example, the Hainan incident with an USAF intel gathering a/c in 2001 are of a similar nature. Injured innocence. The GoI, it appears, has woken up now or so it seems by sending in a C-130J. But, artillery is still a weak point. We *must" give the Chinese a real bloody nose in what appears to be a skirmish about to happen.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2411
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby Prem Kumar » 23 Aug 2013 09:25

In Karate, this concept is known as "Sen Sen no Sen", which is one of the fighting techniques. The idea is to provoke, elicit a response and counter attack.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby svinayak » 23 Aug 2013 10:12

Leonard wrote:Video of the Chinese --

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 979719.cms

My uncle spent 35 years on this border, and the "kangress" has made our soldiers appear powerless & handicapped !!

Only way to handle this is to land some planes in Lhasa Airport.

Have free incursion inside Tibet by Land and Air and keep doing it.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby svinayak » 23 Aug 2013 10:18

SSridhar wrote:That scenario by Lt. Gen. Bakshi is the most likely one. When we say, China is likely to attack us, we may not mean a full scale war which neither side would want at this juncture for different reasons. But, the Chinese are certainly planning to go one notch up in their usual plan of incrementally occupying our land


We *must" give the Chinese a real bloody nose in what appears to be a skirmish about to happen.


India needs a different plan. We need response of a threat directly on Beijing or east coast of PRC for every incident in the LAC border. There is no other way. All borders of PRC has to become vulnerable for every incident by PRC. But this will need planning

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23779
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby SSridhar » 23 Aug 2013 10:24

Acharya, that kind of asymmetrical response is not possible by India at present. We do not even do it to TSP, forget about China. We neither have the wherewithal nor the political power (even if we have the wherewithal) to do so.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Managing Chinese Threat

Postby svinayak » 23 Aug 2013 10:50

SSridhar wrote:Acharya, that kind of asymmetrical response is not possible by India at present.

Who said it is not possible. India has to plan for the possible.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Atmavik, Cain Marko, Google [Bot], nithish and 59 guests