Balwaristan

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shiv
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Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 15 Sep 2010 20:02

Where is Balwaristan?

Image

http://www.outlookindia.com/printarticle.aspx?216236
Interview - from 2002
'Treated By Pakistan As Virtual Slaves'
While we may hear about PoK, the so-called 'Azad Kashmir', every now and then, what do we know about the other, larger part of J&K, the Northern Areas?
Yoginder Sikand

Abdul Hamid Khan is the Chairman of the Balawaristan National Front, an organization struggling for the independence of Gilgit Baltistan, which he considers to be under the illegal occupation of Pakistan. He spoke to Yoginder Sikand on issues related to the Kashmir question and the quest of his own people for independence from Pakistan

Yoginder Sikand: Could you tell us something about the idea of Balawaristan and the aims of the Balawaristan National Front?

Abdul Hamid Khan: Balawaristan is a term which we use to refer to that area of the former state of Jammu & Kashmir which is now under the illegal occupation of Pakistan, consisting of Gilgit Baltistan. It has an area of 28000 square miles (in contrast to the rest of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, which comprises only 4000 sq miles).

Pakistan has illegally ceded some 2500 square miles of the territory of Balawaristan to China in the Shoomshall Hunza area. Balawaristan has a population of some two million, consisting of Shi'as, Sunnis, Isma'ilis and Nur Bakhshis. The Balawaristan National Front (BNF) was been established on July 30th, 1992. To free Balawaristan and its people from the occupation of Pakistan and make it as an independent country is the only aim of our party.

The party has presented a manifesto for a sovereign and independent Republic of Balawaristan for the people of this region are treated by Pakistan as virtual slaves and have been deprived of all basic human rights. Pakistan's occupation of our territory is not legal according to international or any other law.

Do you think your ideas have a strong appeal among the people of your area?

Unless an election or referendum is held in our region under an impartial authority such as the United Nations we cannot measure the degree of support that we enjoy. Yet, many people in Balawaristan seek freedom from Pakistan, of that there can be no doubt. In fact, our people are increasingly veering round to the idea of independence. The growing entry of Pakistani forces as well as terrorists into Balawaristan is ample proof of the fact that the Pakistani state is now facing a serious threat from nationalist groups like the BNF.

How has the involvement of Wahhabi-style Islamists impacted on inter-communal relations in Balwaristan?

A: This is difficult and dangerous question to answer, because of the Wahhabi terrorists' presence in many parts of the world, and in South Asia, in particular. I would like to elucidate my own experience. I had migrated from my native village (Bahrkohlti) of Yasen valley to Gilgit town in 1967.

At that time there was no sectarian problem at all, and one was not supposed to talk about sectarian differences. The majority of the population of Gilgit consisted of Shi'as, and Barelwi Sunni Muslims, who believe in revering the Pirs, the Sufi saints. Barelwis would freely attend Shi'a religious gatherings (majlis) and processions (julus) during the holy month of Muharram in Gilgit. There were a few Pathan Wahhabi traders and smugglers in the area, but, being only a small minority, they lacked the courage to promote sectarian strife.

But then, from Bhutto's rule onwards, sectarianism began growing, sponsored by the Pakistani state to quash growing demands for freedom for Balawaristan. Bhutto's government encouraged the Pakistani Pathan and other Wahhabis to strengthen themselves and create sectarian instability by providing them access to funds. This saw a further boost when Zia took over Pakistan in the name of Islam. Zia managed to get vast amounts of funds from Saudi Arabia, America and Europe, which were used, among other things, to strengthen Pakistani Wahhabism and marginalize the more tolerant Barelvi tradition.

Zia appointed Wahhabi fundamentalists to high ranks in the Pakistani Army and the civil administration. He also attacked the Shi'as of Balawaristan and made (Pakistan Occupied Gilgit Baltistan) it possible for Afghan and Pakistani Wahhabis to attack and kill innocent Shi'as. Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Sharif and Musharraf, all have consistently supported of Wahhabi fundamentalism by following the guidance of ISI and instructions of Pakistan Army.

In your proposed independent state of Balawaristan, you include Ladakh and Kargil as well, which are currently under Indian administration. Do you seriously believe that the Buddhists of Ladakh and other non-Muslim communities would be willing to join you in an independent state?

Before the treacherous occupation of our land by Pakistan, inter-communal relations in our region were exemplary, even during Sikh and Dogra rule. The Gilgiti Muslims have close historical, cultural and even racial bonds with the Kalash of Chitral, who are the last remaining non-Muslim group in our region. Pakistan has damaged the ancient heritage of Kalash by making all efforts to convert them to Wahhabi fundamentalism by force and by use of Saudi funds.

The Ladakhis and Kargilis are our brethren and we share much the same culture. We have great respect for our Buddhist brothers of Ladakh, because we have historical and cultural relations with Ladakh and Tibet. We know that because of Pakistani fundamentalism and because the so-called Azad Kashmir is actually even more badly enslaved than the Indian-held Kashmir, no Ladakhi Buddhist in his right mind would ever consider joining us as long as we remain under Pakistani occupation.

But if and when we gain our freedom from Pakistan it is quite possible that the Ladakhi Buddhists and the Kargilis would join us as we are essentially the same people.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 15 Sep 2010 20:04

http://www.indiatalkies.com/2010/09/bnf ... istan.html
Responding to Harrison’s August 26 article in the New York Times, in which he says China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan, Khan accuses China of being “the first occupier, even before Pakistan, of thousands acres of our land of Hunza by manipulating the then British Empire.”

According to Harrison, it takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

“China enters into our motherland without our will or permission. It only hatches conspiracies to occupy our land and our resources without giving back any benefit,” Khan further states.

Commenting on the construction of the strategic Karakorum Highway (KKH), Khan says: “A very meager amount was paid to the people who lost their land for KKH, but that was nowhere close to being sufficient as per international standard. KKH was built for China and Pakistan to benefit both these countries, not the people of Gilgit Baltistan(GB).”

He accuses both China and Pakistan of reaching an agreement on Shoomshaal, and adds that in return, Beijing has accepted Gilgit Baltistan as a disputed part of Jammu and Kashmir.

“Do the people of GB (Gilgit-Baltistan) know that China is actively looting our resources of gold, copper and uranium? Even during Attaabad disaster, China and Pakistan were involved stealing from our mines, minerals which are used in space technology, in Gojal, Hunza and Chhahlt Nagir and other areas while Pakistani forces were exclusively busy stealing gold and uranium in Gojal Hunza,” the BNF chief claims.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 15 Sep 2010 20:06

http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/give-ai ... bad-hunza/
I thank Mr. Ban-ki-Moon Secretary General of UN, for sending an expert for the assessment of the devastating water blockade in Hunza and its worst impact on the other areas along the river of Hunza, Gilgit and then finally Indus. I appeal to the United nations and Environmentalists to look into the matter of 4000 blasts done in Gindayi, Yasen of Gilgit and thousand other areas by Chinese mining companies which has resulted in this melting of great glaciers and huge mountain sliding in this area which has completely disturbed the natural balance and ecosystem of this part of the world. When local people protested against these blasts of Chinese mining companies , instead of hearing them, Pakistani occupying regime arrested them , tortured them, poisoned them and those 22 natives of Yasen, Gindaye are still being trialed for manifesting against the crime done to their motherland. These grave errors and crimes done in Pakistan Occupied Gilgit Baltistan are worse than Nuclear weapons, which only eradicate the humanity, while these blasts exploded the mountains and changed the climate of this beautiful land at dangerous level.

The 2000 leases for mining of precious metals have been given to foreign companies like Pakistani and Chinese by Pakistani colonial power, which themselves do not have any right on this land, it is totally illegal. Those foreign companies seem to be totally ignorant on environmental ill- consequences to this area and its neighboring world. I request to the UN and environmental experts to intervene and take up it seriously against human interference in natural phenomenon as an urgent issue. A live example of this abuse is the recently formation of Attabad, Hunza water dam, which has caused grave consequences to the existence of the whole region.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 15 Sep 2010 20:12

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... tistan-070

China to build two highways in Gilgit-Baltistan

Saturday, 10 Jul, 2010

BEIJING, July 9: China will build two highways in Gilgit-Baltistan at an estimated cost of Rs 45 billion —85 per cent of the amount will be borne by China and the rest by Pakistan.

One of the highways, having a proposed length of 165 kilometres, will link Skardu with Jaglot and the other, 135kms long, will link Thakot and Sazin.

The highway project was the highlight of four memorandums of understanding signed between the two countries on Friday. The other MOUs pertained to health and power generation sectors.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby chaanakya » 15 Sep 2010 20:12

http://www.balawaristan.net/
Their website
And the latest. Need to support in all ways possible.
This is a trick by our enemies to create misinformation in the Bazaar, which affects all the gullible people in the Market.

China has been the first occupier, even before Pakistan. It occupied thousands acres of our land of Hunza by manipulating the then British Empire. you can see this in revealed Secret documents on our website. The British empire gave our own land (Oshikhandaad and Nomel) to the people of Hunza as compensation for what it had given to China. After Pakistani occupation, again China got 2500 Sq Miles area of Shoomshaal, without taking our people into confidence.


And their version of Boundary. Includes Saltoro.

http://www.balawaristan.net/images/stor ... ristan.jpg
Last edited by chaanakya on 15 Sep 2010 20:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 20:17

Shiv, Thanks for opening this thread.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby thayilv » 15 Sep 2010 20:21

Sorry if posted before, but here is an interview carried out by paki tv channel of Nawaz Khan Naji. Topics cover the history of the BNF (Balawaristan National Front) and Balawaristan as well. On hand is a paki ex army type as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhRTfiCRCE

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2010 21:08

Isn't Balawaristan the same as Gilgit-Baltistan the same as Northern Areas of 'Pakistan' the same as PoK (almost)?

Would a particular angle be dealt with in this thread, which cannot be dealt in PoK Thread?

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 15 Sep 2010 21:14

shiv wrote:http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/china-to-build-two-highways-in-gilgitbaltistan-070
China to build two highways in Gilgit-Baltistan



One of the highways, having a proposed length of 165 kilometres, will link Skardu with Jaglot and the other, 135kms long, will link Thakot and Sazin.



Map:
Image

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 21:32

RajeshA wrote:Isn't Balawaristan the same as Gilgit-Baltistan the same as Northern Areas of 'Pakistan' the same as PoK (almost)?

Would a particular angle be dealt with in this thread, which cannot be dealt in PoK Thread?



POK is under TSP occupation.

Balwaristan is the aspiration/self-determination of the Northern Areas people.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2010 21:37

ramana wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Isn't Balawaristan the same as Gilgit-Baltistan the same as Northern Areas of 'Pakistan' the same as PoK (almost)?

Would a particular angle be dealt with in this thread, which cannot be dealt in PoK Thread?

POK is under TSP occupation.

Balwaristan is the aspiration/self-determination of the Northern Areas people.


So
PoK ............= geographical and strategic angles
Balawaristan = demographic, social and political angles

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2010 21:43

One way to look at it.

---

Its quite possible the Balwaristan National Front dudes are the ones that give Selig Harrison types hope that Kashmir Valley with Northern Areas as a viable independent state. Recall the two liner buried in his article about TSP brutality in Northern Areas and lack of media access was drawing a veil over it. And Outlook is a lifafa outfit.

And see his call for Ladakh eventually.

So the master plan is Uncle supported (KV+ Gilgit-Balwaristan+ Ladakh) state. Jammu is bonus.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Carl_T » 15 Sep 2010 22:09

The Burusho people of that area have little in common with the broader Paki public and splittist tendencies could be mined well.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Klaus » 16 Sep 2010 09:23

ramana wrote:One way to look at it.

---

Its quite possible the Balwaristan National Front dudes are the ones that give Selig Harrison types hope that Kashmir Valley with Northern Areas as a viable independent state.

So the master plan is Uncle supported (KV+ Gilgit-Balwaristan+ Ladakh) state. Jammu is bonus.


So do you suspect collusion of the local Shias with Unkil? Is the plan to get a Shia column and sympathies on Unkil's side (across CAR) to facilitate wider subversion activities (such as fomenting dissent in Iran for eg)?

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2010 21:05

Uncle needs a new base state. However is wary of creating new sunni state for its ramifications on Central Asia.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Lalmohan » 16 Sep 2010 21:50

a base state so far from the sea? even if unkil has gwadar, getting from there to balawaristan is no picnic if the way is beset with bandits

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2010 22:12

The bandits can be regularised as Balitstan scouts. The Brits showed the way with the Scottish Highlanders.

Anyway my thinking is based on the persistent theme running in US op-eds and chatterati that wants independent state in that area. Even Selig Harrison article if you cut out what we know (ie is restating facts), hyperbole, boils down to: PoK and Indian Kashmir both have things going bad under their respective govts and good US should step in. This is the same old mantra or refrain since 1955. Only PLA troops added for to show that PRC is doing the needful if US doesnt press ahaed.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 17 Sep 2010 16:47

Pervez Musharraf: £25,000 to protect him at London dinners by Adam Fresco: The Times

Why can't this a$$hole be indicted to India? He caused Kargil. Indian losses stand at 527 soldiers killed, 1,363 wounded, and 1 captured. He needs to pay. While he was President of Pakistan, India had to treat him like a President, but he is that no more.

But I think, a better strategy would be to indict him for his crimes against Gilgitian Shias.

Some Biography of Musharraf
In May,1988, the Shias, who are in a majority in Gilgit, rose in revolt against the Sunni-dominated administration. Zia put an SSG group commanded by Gen. Musharraf in charge of suppressing the revolt. Gen. Musharraf transported a large number of Wahabi Pakhtoon tribesmen from the NWFP and Afghanistan, commanded by bin Laden, to Gilgit to teach the Shias a lesson. These tribesmen under bin Laden massacred hundreds of Shias.

In its issue of May,1990, "Herald", the monthly journal of the "Dawn" group of publications of Karachi, wrote as follows: " In May,1988, low-intensity political rivalry and sectarian tension ignited into full-scale carnage as thousands of armed tribesmen from outside Gilgit district invaded Gilgit along the Karakoram Highway. Nobody stopped them. They destroyed crops and houses, lynched and burnt people to death in the villages around Gilgit town. The number of dead and injured was put in the hundreds. But numbers alone tell nothing of the savagery of the invading hordes and the chilling impact it has left on these peaceful valleys."

Gen. Musharraf started a policy of bringing in Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside and settling them down in Gilgit and Baltistan in order to reduce the Kashmiri Shias to a minority in their traditional land and this is continuing till today. The "Friday Times" of October 15-21, 1992, quoted Mr. Muhammad Yahya Shah, a local Shia leader, as saying: " We were ruled by the Whites during the British days. We are now being ruled by the Browns from the plains. The rapid settling-in of Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside, particularly the trading classes, has created a sense of acute insecurity among the local Shias."


Here is a precedence:
General Augusto Pinochet was indicted for human rights violations in Chile on 10 October 1998 by Spanish magistrate Baltasar Garzón. He was arrested in London in 1998.

Some more background about the case
There was a hard-fought 16-month legal battle in the House of Lords, the highest court of the United Kingdom.[5] Pinochet claimed immunity from prosecution as a former head of state under the State Immunity Act 1978. This was rejected, as the Lords decreed that some international crimes, such as torture, could not be protected by former head-of-state immunity.[6] The Lords, however, decided in March 1999 that Pinochet could only be prosecuted for crimes committed in or after 1988, the date during which the United Kingdom implemented legislation for the United Nations Convention Against Torture in the Criminal Justice Act 1988.[7][6] This invalidated most, but not all, of the charges against him; but the outcome was that extradition could proceed.


The United Nations Convention Against Torture came into force on 26 June 1987. Musharraf's crimes were in 1988 so he should be able to be prosecuted.

It would be best if the Gilgitians through some forum file a case against Musharraf in UK. Indian Govt. could help them in this venture.

Of course, the Gilgitians can approach the Indian Govt. as well to take the case. They could claim that they are legally Indians as J&K is legally an Indian State, so they would want the Indian Govt. to take up the extradition of Musharraf on their behalf and prosecute him in India on those crimes.

This would of course bring in the whole status of PoK to the fore, which is at the moment good.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby krisna » 17 Sep 2010 17:32

It would be best if the Gilgitians through some forum file a case against Musharraf in UK. Indian Govt. could help them in this venture.
Of course, the Gilgitians can approach the Indian Govt. as well to take the case. They could claim that they are legally Indians as J&K is legally an Indian State, so they would want the Indian Govt. to take up the extradition of Musharraf on their behalf and prosecute him in India on those crimes.
This would of course bring in the whole status of PoK to the fore, which is at the moment good.


looks like a good one.
But India should first contact the gilgitians and make sure they agree to us doing it. we dont want differences of opinion. Even without it we can file a case without their help as J&K is legally Indian territory occupied illegally.
Ukstan might ok it as there economy is down in the dumps and scotland yard could use some of the saved money. :lol:
Might require some pressure on UK by GOI. of course bakis will in trouble as they are divided in support to him.

OTOH why not some Indians(non state actors if they can be called so) file a case on him and ask for extradition. :wink:

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Sep 2010 17:39

OTOH Mushy might find himself with "severe head and neck injuries" next time he steps out for a shawarma to the Edgware Road kebab shops

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 17 Sep 2010 17:48

Lalmohan wrote:OTOH Mushy might find himself with "severe head and neck injuries" next time he steps out for a shawarma to the Edgware Road kebab shops


He should go to prison in India for his human rights violations in Gilgit against the Shias. It is time to put UK Govt. on trial for their incestuous relationship with dictators and Pakistanis of all hues, despite the blood-baths they may have caused.

Let's see the wheels of justice at work in UK.

I would rather that he gets his kebab in Tihar Jail, right after his daily GUBO for the other inmates.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Venkarl » 17 Sep 2010 17:57

Lalmohan wrote:a base state so far from the sea? even if unkil has gwadar, getting from there to balawaristan is no picnic if the way is beset with bandits


We could give them a base in Ladakh..not too hot for yankees you know :P

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 02 Oct 2010 18:10

The article has an out-of-place abstract at the start. Overlook it please.

Published on Sep 30, 2010
By Senge H Sering
Gilgit-Baltistan: The moment Of Truth For Pakistan: UNPO
Pakistan's attitude to take and take and give nothing in return continues as her demands multiply. As the country faces acute power shortages, the people of Gilgit-Baltistan are once again expected to take on an involuntary burden by allowing the construction of dams on their land. Pakistan's decision to construct dams in places like Diamer and Bunji has increased threat perception among locals, who see their homeland converted into a giant lake. Pakistan has refused to acknowledge that the Diamer dam will destroy villages and settlements. It will throw people off their ancestral land while submerging the graveyards of their forefathers and damaging cultural heritage. The farmlands, forest and pastures which are the backbone of the local economy will be inundated. Wildlife and their habitats will be lost, causing grave environmental catastrophe. The glaciers, which support the farming needs of hundreds of thousands of natives, will experience melting at breakneck speed. Through the Diamer dam, Pakistan is demonstrating its will and capacity to annihilate Gilgit-Baltistan.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby anupmisra » 02 Oct 2010 19:50

Anyone recall Gilgit Scouts and their role in the invasion of J&K in 1948? They are the same people who are now complaining about the purelanders from the plains of pakjab and the hills of pakhtoonistan.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Victor » 03 Oct 2010 00:14

anupmisra wrote:Anyone recall Gilgit Scouts and their role in the invasion of J&K in 1948? They are the same people who are now complaining about the purelanders from the plains of pakjab and the hills of pakhtoonistan.

IMO it would be a mistake to consider them anything other than anti-pakis and therefore more than worthy of our moral and diplomatic help. They are in fact nothing less than Indian citizens by virtue of being PoK natives. It is only our impotent leaders who have never acted like it and in the process, average Indians erroneously consider them to be pakis too. The entire mess in J&K to the present day is entirely of our own making. The pakis were just being normal mards, hats off to them.

At any rate, in 1947-48 they were being used by the brits to set up an outpost, something they are still trying to do (from wiki):
After the Partition of India, the Gilgit Scouts joined with the forces of the Pakistan Army in attacks against forces of the erstwhile princely state during the First Kashmir War. According to British Major William Brown, their commanding officer, there was a secret plan among the Gilgit Scouts (yeah, right) to set up a "Republic of Gilgit-Astor(e)" when they ousted the armed forces of the Maharajah of Kashmir's armed forces on November 1, 1947, but already on November 2, the Pakistani flag was raised in Gilgit.[4] After conclusion of the war, the Gilgit Scouts operated as a paramilitary force in the Northern Areas, until 1975, when it became amalgamated into the Northern Light Infantry Regiment.


Remember that the Maharaja's troops were probably 90% Sunni Muslims, so the brits were artfully leading these confused Shia troops up the garden path.

The solution to Balawaristan is in persent day J&K--trash Article 370, form Ladakh and Jammu into full-fledged Indian states. Then, using the Kashmiri ethnic cleansing of Hindus, create an enclave within the valley that includes Amarnath and other Hindu shrines and fill it with Indians of every stripe, armed to the teeth if necessary. Let the pigs stew in whatever is left. Unless we have these irrefutable facts on the ground now, we stand to lose not just PoK but also the Kashmir valley, Jammu and Ladakh. It appears that events are leading to some kind of end game and as usual, we show every sign of being sound asleep.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 17 Jun 2011 14:03

An old piece of news.

Published on May 31, 2008
By Alokesh Gupta
Kargil radio to broadcast news bulletin in Balti
The newly inaugurated and upgraded Kargil radio station of All India Radio in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) will soon broadcast daily news bulletin in Balti to encourage local and Pakistan’s Northern Areas’ audiences. Broadcasting Corporation of India Chief Executive Officer BS Lalli said the Balti service would go on air within the next two months.

The J&K chief minister has inaugurated the 200 kW high power transmitter of All India Radio at Kargil [on 684 kHz]. He said the transmission hours of the radio station would be extended from five hours at present to ten hours, with five hours of transmission in local languages and the rest for Urdu transmission.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 17 Jun 2011 14:16

Don't know if it was posted earlier:

Published on Dec 16, 2010
By Nishikant Khajuria
Chinese airwaves invading Ladakh; SOS to PMO: J&K Newspoint
The militancy infested and trouble torn Jammu & Kashmir is facing a new threat from across the border.
This time the threat is not from India’s arch rival Pakistan but China, which has waged a cultural invasion in the cold desert of Ladakh through its electronic media.

As the cultural invasion is feared to contain anti-India propaganda also, the matter is being taken up with the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) for necessary action plan to counter the same.According to official sources, the neighbouring country China has recently installed several high frequency television and radio reception transmitters along the border with Ladakh and is airing a number of programmes in the local languages, which include Ladakhi {similar to Balti}, Shina, Purgi, Shina etc. Because of high frequency reception transmitters, the Chinese radio and television signals are caught in approximately one lakh square kilometer area of Ladakh thus exposing the people there to cultural and ideological invasion from across the border, sources explained. As the officials in Doordarshan Kendra Ladakh and local radio station are unable to understand Shina, Purgi and other local languages, there are apprehensions that the Chinese programmes being aired by their television and radio stations may contain some anti-India propaganda also, sources said adding that some unofficial agencies have even confirmed that a hidden anti-India propaganda has been launched by the Chinese media. On the other hand, the Indian official media, Doordarshan and All India Radio, are finding it difficult to counter the Chinese invasion because of technical as well as resources weaknesses.

Signal of the HPTs (High Power Transmitters) and LPTs (Low Power Transmitters) of DD and AIR stations, installed in Ladakh area, is poor as compared to the Chinese transmitters with the result a number of people prefer to tune in the stations being operated from across the border. Further, non-availability of local language experts with Doordarshan and AIR stations is making it difficult for Indian official media to have effective counter propaganda.

Sensitivity of the matter can be gauged from the fact that the issue is being taken up by the concerned authorities with PMO for necessary action, disclosed highly placed official sources. The decision to take up the matter with PMO, which is directly monitoring media in J&K through a special cell, was taken up during a high-level Inter-media Coordination Committee meeting, held here today. The meeting was attended by heads of various official media in J&K and chaired by Director Doordarshan Kendra Srinagar, Rafiq Masoodi.

In the meeting, which was also attended by Director DD Kendra Leh Harjit Singh, the issue was discussed for immediate attention of the higher ups and emergency measures to counter the new challenge in trouble-torn state.

So far, Indian official media in J&K was concerned only about anti-India propaganda by Pakistan through its television and radio stations. However, the latest reports have revealed that China too has waged a hidden invasion in the India territories through its electronic media.


So the Chinese have started their propaganda directed at the people of Gilgit, with obvious expectations of taking over the area! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Narad » 17 Jun 2011 14:24

Please change the thread title to "Pak occupied Balwaristan".

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby RajeshA » 29 Jul 2011 02:30

Testimony of Senge Sering, Institute for Gilgit Baltistan Studies (IGBS)

Before

The Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission, United States Congress

July 26, 2011
Respected Chairman

I am thankful to the commission for this opportunity to represent the indigenous people of Gilgit-Baltistan, which is a UN-declared disputed territory under Pakistan's control. The worsening human rights situation of the indigenous people in Gilgit-Baltistan is a serious cause of concern and effective protection and promotion of their rights is urgently required.

Gilgit-Baltistan is home to more than one million people who belong to Balti, Shin, Burushu, Khowar and Wakhi ethnicity. They consider themselves different from predominant Pakistani groups and share strong cultural links with the Tibetans, Kashmiris, Tajiks, Uighurs and Mongols. The region is situated at the confluence of Central Asia, China and South Asia; and greatly helps China with access to the markets and energy strongholds in the Middle East and the Indian Oceanic Region. Gilgit-Baltistan is a resource-rich region where uranium, copper, and gold are found in abundance; and glaciated water bodies cover a catchment area equal to the size of South Carolina.

However, Pakistan and China's vested strategic and economic interests in Gilgit-Baltistan restrict the natives from benefiting from their own resources. Pakistan's unilateral decision to award mining licenses to the Chinese companies has endangered control of the natives over their land. Despite repeated local demands, Islamabad has failed to transfer legislative authority over trade and transit routes; and resource management to the indigenous political institutions, which limits access to revenue worth millions of dollars. Pakistan also denies natives the royalty and usage compensation over the rivers, which the Pakistani provinces currently receive on annual basis.

The disputed region remains in tight control of Pakistan's notorious secret service agency, ISI, and the situation forces the majority among the natives to remain silent and tolerate the oppression. As of now, more than one hundred and eighty activists remain behind bars for demanding political and religious rights and many face sedition charges for confronting Chinese and Pakistani companies.

Given the fact that more than half of the native population lives below the poverty line; majority of the valleys still lack basic facilities like clean drinking water, schools and health centers; and more than 300,000 educated youth remain jobless; it is vital for the natives to regain control over their land and benefit from the resources to enhance living standards.

According to the media sources, China would invest more than thirty billion dollars in Gilgit-Baltistan to construct large water storage dams which will displace hundreds of thousands of people and damage their link with their ancestral land. The situation will change social demography impacting indigenous languages, traditions and other traits of culture. It will also prevent the natives from accessing their resources like pastures, irrigation outlets, forests and minerals. The situation undermines regional security and creates environmental problems of great magnitude.

Without the consent of the natives, who are mostly Shias, Ismailis and Sufis by religious denomination, Pakistani secret service agents use Gilgit-Baltistan as a hide out and launch pad for the extremist militants who actively support Pakistan's Talibanization. On many occasions, natives clashed with these rogue elements but failed to oust them due to pressure from secret service agencies. In addition, native students of Gilgit-Baltistan are forced to learn religious courses, which contradict local secular traditions; lack regard for the local history and actively promotes Jihad and terrorism. The situation seriously undermines promotion of indigenous cultural beliefs and national identity.

The situation, in which thousands of Chinese personnel have assumed de-facto control of the region, poses serious political threats both for the natives and the international community. China's presence in Gilgit-Baltistan complicates the Kashmir issue and prolongs the dispute between India and Pakistan which is like oxygen to the terrorists and rogue elements within ISI. The situation could lead to a potential war between three nuclear nations creating political and economic instability at the global scale. Many among locals fear that Gilgit-Baltistan would end up like Tibet and East Turkestan if China's unwarranted interventions are not challenged. They emphasize that since both Pakistan and China lack constitutional rights and sovereignty over Gilgit-Baltistan; therefore international community must help in withdrawal of Pakistani and Chinese personnel and citizens from the region.

Protecting indigenous peoples' land rights serves U.S. interests in cost-effective conservation, mitigation of climate change, and global food security. The US should help prevent human rights violations caused due to these massive scale land grabs which pose threats to local livelihoods. It is once again stressed that social and cultural well-being of the indigenous peoples of Gilgit-Baltistan co-insides with U.S. national economic and security interests.

At the same time, USA must persuade both India and Pakistan to open channels of economic and cultural activity between Ladakh and Gilgit-Baltistan and enable the United Nations to take increase its role in Gilgit-Baltistan to protect the rights of natives. The Institute believes that substantial decrease in Pakistani influence in Gilgit-Baltistan will allow promotion of indigenous cultures and help neutralize extremism and Arab tribal influences that have been forced upon the natives in the name of Islamic values.

The Institute for Gilgit Baltistan Studies therefore calls for demilitarization of Gilgit-Baltistan, promotion of genuine autonomy and democracy, withdrawal of extremist elements, re-instatement of state subject rule and people to people contact between Ladakh and Gilgit-Baltistan. It asks Pakistani rulers to empower local political institutions including granting absolute legislative authority over the natural resources, tourism and trade to the legislative assembly in Gilgit.

I once again thank you Mr. Chairman for this opportunity.


Senge Sering
Institute for Gilgit Baltistan Studies
Washington DC, DC


:D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Airavat » 29 Jul 2011 07:33

Victor wrote:Remember that the Maharaja's troops were probably 90% Sunni Muslims, so the brits were artfully leading these confused Shia troops up the garden path.

Sunni Muslims in the J&K army (modern day JAK RIF regiment) were only about 10%. The majority were Dogras, who conquered Ladakh and invaded Tibet, creating the J&K State. Units of Sikhs, Gorkhas, and Jammu Muslims were added to this army later.

The Gilgit Scouts were under British control. By the way, the Gilgit Agency which was taken on lease from the J&K Maharaja by the British DID NOT include Baltistan, which was garrisoned by J&K troops. The Gilgit Scouts coup by Major Brown was followed by an Anglo-Pakistani invasion of Baltistan and Ladakh which they termed Operation Sledge. These huge regions were defended by a single battalion: 6 JAK RIF commanded by Major Sher Jung Thapa, a Gorkha officer in the J&K army.
anupmisra wrote:Anyone recall Gilgit Scouts and their role in the invasion of J&K in 1948? They are the same people who are now complaining about the purelanders from the plains of pakjab and the hills of pakhtoonistan.

They have a historic distrust and animosity with the Pashtuns in particular, while the Pakjabis are new kids on the block. Chitral can also be included in the list of anti-pak anti-pashtun regions.
The Chitralis, however, who are an Aryan race and not Pathans, have a deep-rooted hatred of the Afghans; and in 1878 Aman-ul-Mulk, being afraid of aggression by the Amir of Afghanistan, placed Chitral under the nominal suzerainty of the Maharajah of J&K, whose province of Gilgit borders upon Yasin. J&K being one of the tributary states of the Indian Empire, this brought him into direct touch with the Government of India, with whom from that time until his death he did all he could to maintain friendly relations. In 1885 a mission under Sir William Lockhart visited Chitral, and was very cordially received, and so too was Colonel Durand, who went there in 1888.

Image

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Airavat » 12 Aug 2011 07:43

Terrain of northern J&K

Skardu and Khapalu, the main towns of Baltistan, are spread over rock avalanche areas. At Skardu and Gilgit the airports lie on terrace levels related to former landslide dams. Taxiing from the runway at Skardu, you pass bluffs in fine-grained yellow sediments laid down in a vast lake dammed by the landslide at Katzarah. One can only marvel at the extraordinary range of resources and uses people have found for the landslides.

Although the region is nearly as difficult to cross as it is to inhabit, it has been the route for Buddhist pilgrims moving between the subcontinent, China and Tibet for at least 2,000 years. These travellers followed the Karakoram Indus valleys, and marked the way with images of the Buddha, stupas, hand prints and inscriptions.

Some of the earliest records of human presence, rock carvings and inscriptions, are found on rock avalanche boulders or rocks polished by the rivers cutting through them. This includes Ghoro Cho and Gol. It seems that indigenous peoples and ancient travellers identified these as special localities, often as sacred places. The greatest concentration of petroglyphs, possibly up to 5,000 years old, lies between Rakhiot Bridge and Shatial along the Indus River. Perhaps there are exceptional numbers of suitable sites, or the landscape inspired a special awe in early residents and travellers.

Either way, every part of the Indus valley here is shaped by large landslides and their interruption cycles. Thanks to them, land suitable for cultivation supports quite heavy settlement today, although plans for a major hydroelectric dam would drown much of it and the petroglyphs. Proponents evidently are unconcerned by the danger of great landslides.

Another famous site, the Sacred Rock of Hunza, is covered in pre- and post-Buddhist petroglyphs spanning thousands of years. It is located where a 1.5 cubic kilometre rock avalanche descended from precipitous mountain walls some 2,000 metres above. The rock avalanche now provides the foundations of Baltit palace, thought to be over 700 years old and recently restored as a World Heritage Site. In general, the classic landscapes of Hunza are adapted to features controlled by this and other landslides – the countless terraces, the fruit tree blossoms of spring, bright green crops in summer and orange expanses of apricots in Fall.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 19 Oct 2011 20:29

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/198 ... istan.html
Continuing turmoil in Gilgit-Baltistan
Gurmeet Kanwal

The people are demanding genuine democratic rule and the right to govern themselves.

Reports of a major Chinese presence in the Gilgit-Baltistan area have been pouring in. While Selig Harrison of the New York Times put the figure at 11,000, the Indian Army chief said recently that about 4,000 Chinese workers, many of them PLA soldiers, are engaged in construction and mining activities in the Northern Areas. This unprecedented Chinese presence is being deeply resented by the local people.

The Gilgit Agency and Baltistan in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK), that now comprise the Northern Areas, were part of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) at the time of partition. The woes of the people of the Northern Areas began on November 4, 1947, soon after J&K acceded to India in terms of the Independence of India Act. A young British major who was commanding the Gilgit Scouts overstepped his authority and illegally declared the accession of the Northern Areas to Pakistan. It shall remain one of the quirks of history that a Major of the British Raj could violate good order and military discipline and seal the fate of the people of an area almost as large as England.

Civil administration
Since then, the people of the Northern Areas have been denied all fundamental and political rights by Pakistan just like the Kashmiris in the rest of POK. They had for long been governed with an iron hand by a federal minister for Kashmir affairs and Northern Areas nominated from Islamabad and supported by the Pakistan army. Now, while the governor is still appointed by the president of Pakistan, there is a Legislative Assembly with 24 members.

The Assembly elects a chief minister. The judiciary still exists only in name and civil administration is virtually non-existent. The result has been that almost no development has taken place and the people live poverty stricken lives without even a semblance of health care and with only primitive educational facilities based primarily on madrasas run by Islamist fundamentalists.

These simple and hardy people have never reconciled themselves to their second-class status and have for long resented the tyrannical attitude of the Pakistan government. Consequently, there have been frequent riots and uprisings. The most violent political outbursts took place in 1971, 1988 and 1997.

In fact, it was General Pervez Musharraf, then a brigadier commanding the Special Service Group (SSG) commandos, who had been handpicked to put down a Shia uprising in Gilgit in 1988. He let loose Wahabi Pakhtoon tribesmen from the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) on the hapless protestors. These tribesmen invaded Gilgit and went on a deliberately unchecked rampage. They lynched and burnt people to death, indulged in loot, rape and arson, ransacked houses and destroyed standing crops and left the area smoldering for years.

The Pakistan army used the people of the Northern Areas as cannon fodder during the 1999 conflict with India. It refused to acknowledge the contribution of the Northern Light Infantry (NLI) battalions to Operation Badr. Of the 772 Pakistani soldiers, including 69 officers and 76 SSG personnel, who laid down their lives for a militarily futile venture, almost 80 per cent belonged to NLI battalions. Of these, over 200 were buried with military honours by the Indian army in graves at heights ranging from 15,000 to 17,000 ft because the Pakistan army had refused to take their bodies back. The people of the Northern Areas were extremely agitated by these developments.

The simmering discontent of the last 60 years and deep resentment against being treated as second-class citizens has led to a widespread demand for the state of Balawaristan. The people are demanding genuine democratic rule and the right to govern themselves. A large number of influential leaders of the Northern Areas have buried their political differences and joined hands to form the Balawaristan National Front (BNF), with its head office at Majini Mohalla, Gilgit.

Though some sops are now being offered to them, the people of the Northern Areas are completely disenchanted. Their alienation from the Pakistan mainstream is too deep to be ever reconciled and Balawaristan is quite obviously an idea they will pursue vigorously.

(The writer is director, Centre for Land Warfare Studies, New Delhi)

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Agnimitra » 19 Oct 2011 22:13

shiv wrote:http://www.deccanherald.com/content/198691/continuing-turmoil-gilgit-baltistan.html
Reports of a major Chinese presence in the Gilgit-Baltistan area have been pouring in. While Selig Harrison of the New York Times put the figure at 11,000, the Indian Army chief said recently that about 4,000 Chinese workers, many of them PLA soldiers, are engaged in construction and mining activities in the Northern Areas.

So Chinese entrenchment for mining prospects in the area extending into Afghanistan is underway.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby chaanakya » 25 Oct 2011 00:06

From Pamirtimes

Original report is from Express tribune

Under threat: Conversions threatening Pakistan’s ‘Macedonian’ tribe

threats being faced by people of Kalash Valley.

Nestled among the valleys of Pakistan’s mountainous northwest, a tiny religious community that claims descent from Alexander the Great’s army is under increasing pressure from radicals bent on converting them to Islam.

The Kalash, who number just about 3,500, are spread over three valleys along the border with Afghanistan. For centuries they practiced polytheism and animal sacrifice without interference from the Muslim majority.

But now they are under increasing danger from proselytising Muslim militants just across the border, and a hard line interpretation of Islam creeping through mainstream society – as it was discovered.

After falling unconscious during a car accident, a mid-20s member of the paramilitary Chitral Scouts woke to find that people with him had converted him to Islam.

“Some of the Muslim people here try to influence the Kalash or encourage them by reading certain verses to them from the Quran,” said his mother, Shingerai Bibi.

“The men that were with him read verses of the Quran and then when he woke up they said to him, ‘You are a convert now’. So he converted.”


The conversion was a shock for his family. But they were lucky compared with other religious minorities under threat from growing religious conservatism that is destabilising the country.



But the smooth co-existence between the Kalash and Muslims has been fading in recent months and the area is suffering from many of the religious tensions marring the rest of Pakistan.

The conversions are causing splits among the Kalash – converts become outcasts overnight, described by many as ‘dead to their families’.

“When a Kalash converts we don’t live with them in our houses anymore,” said farmer Asil Khan, sitting on a neighbour’s balcony.

“Our festivals and our culture are different. They can’t take part in the festivals or the way we live.”

Some in the area are so concerned that they believe[b] segregation is the only way to protect the Kalash.

[/b]
“We should move the Muslims out of the valley to make more room for the Kalash,” said Shohor Gul, a Kalash member who lives in Rumbur valley.


Is there a way to protect these people?

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby member_19686 » 25 Oct 2011 00:39

The Kalash, who number just about 3,500, are spread over three valleys along the border with Afghanistan. For centuries they practiced polytheism and animal sacrifice without interference from the Muslim majority.

Bullshit.

Kalash are related to Nuristani's and are the few remaining survivors of Abdur Rehman's 1895-1896 Jihad because they happened to live on the British side of the Durand line.

Muslims have been trying to wipe them out for centuries, Nuristan was formerly called Kafiristan and was renamed after their forcible conversion.

In Aug 2002 the Jihadis killed Jordi Magraner. His throat was apparently slit with a knife and he bled to death- the traditional method by which pious Muslims kill their victims. He was originally a Catalan zoologist, but he started pursuing the bizzare by searching for the yeti or the "hairy man" in Northern TSP. It was there that he became acquainted with the Kalash. The TSP newspapers considered his links with the Kafirs as "shady" connections for which he deserved death.
The last Arya

Through the corrupt gramophone recording we heard the voice of Kareik, the last devlole of the Kalash, reciting the ancient hymns of dishani, bhagiShT, sutarem, imra and mahandeu. These were recorded by Morgenstierne in 1929 and five years later the devalole was dead and with that the oral tradition of the Kalash was lost. Several decades earlier the Kalash had already faced the death blow from the Jihad of Abd-ar-Rahman, the murderous Ghazi from Afghanistan. Per say there was nothing new in the event — Islam and the cult of Jeshua ben Yusuf had annihilated, and were to continue annihilating, numerous religions and cultures of the world...

http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/20 ... last-arya/

In the wake of Mahmud's depredation came the Afghâns, who in the ensuing centuries expropriated the region's lowlands from their Indo-Âryan inhabitants. Population shifts in Laghmân, perhaps caused by the Tarkâṇi Afghân invasion in the mid 15th Century A.D., propelled other groups eastward into the Pech basin to become in part the ancestors of the Kalaṣa Nuristânis of today.
As Afghâns encroached on the region, relations between them and the Nuristânis grew more hostile. From the Nuristânis' viewpoint, they were surrounded by hostile peoples, bent on converting them to Islâm through force. Numerous holy-war expeditions against the "Kâfirs" (including the unconverted Indo-Âryan-speaking peoples of the region) were mounted by regional Muslim rulers, including those of Timur-e Lang (Tamerlane) in 1398 A.D. (Frazer-Tytler 1967: 58), Bâbur in the early 1500's, Akbar in the late 1500's, and Jahângir in the early 1600's (Kakar 1971: 186-87). The Nuristânis' response to such intolerant hostility was hundreds of years of incessant murderous raids on the lowland Afghân population, in compliance with their custom of blood revenge.
At the end of the 19th Century A.D. pressure on the Nuristânis mounted as they became pawns in the imperialist "Great Game" between Great Britain, Russia, and the Afghân Âmir ("Commander") Abdur-Rahmân Khân. Many Nuristânis voluntarily submitted to Islâm and agreed to pay tribute to the Âmir in order to prevent war, but he required total submission and spurned their offers of peace (Kakar 1971: 181 ff.). After he and the British agreed on a boundary (the "Durand Line") beyond which neither would advance, he had license to annex the independent polities east of his current empire up to the line, including those of present-day Nuristân. He mounted campaigns up the Laghmân and Kunar Valleys in 1895, and succeeded in overcoming all the "Kâfirs" by the end of 1896 (Kakar 1971: 197-200).4 His troops destroyed and plundered most of the temples and religious idols, and they compelled the men to submit to circumcision as a sign of their submission to Allâh. Thousands of Nuristânis from Laghmân were deported to other provinces of the Âmir's empire and only later allowed to return, but in general the conquered Nuristânis were treated well. Many deportees were inducted into the army, establishing an enduring tradition of integrating Nuristânis into national life through governmental service. Governmental mullahs were sent to educate the new converts in the requirements of their new God, and after two generations the populace was thoroughly Islamized...

Pre-Islâmic Religion: Before their conversion to Islâm the Nuristânis practiced a form of ancient Hinduism, infused with accretions developed locally. They acknowledged a number of human-like deities who lived in the unseen Deity World (Kâmviri d'e lu; cf. Sanskrit deva lok'a-). Certain deities were revered only in one community or tribe, but one was universally revered as the Creator: the ancient Hindu god Yama Râja, called imr'o in Kâmviri. The deities guided peoples' destinies and could be influenced through sacrifice, prayer, and dance. Supplicants communicated with the deities through shamans, who would go into a trance after the area was purified with juniper smoke to invite the deities' presence. Such communication often resulted in the disclosure of a transgression of purity against a diety, who demanded a sacrifice of livestock in appeasement. Some details of the former religion, as practiced by the Vasi, appear here.

http://users.sedona.net/~strand/Nurista ... anis1.html

As for saving them, that's "communal" and we are a "secular socialist republic".

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby Airavat » 25 Oct 2011 07:40

Thus by the basic conception of the Muslim state all non-Muslims are its enemies and it is the interest of the state to curb their growth in number and power. The ideal aim was to exterminate them totally, as Hindus, Zoroastrians and Christian nationals have been liquidated (sometimes totally, sometimes leaving a negligible remnant behind) in Afghanistan, Persia and the Near East. The last remnants of the descendants of Alexander's soldiers, settled in, northeastern Afghanistan, were ground down to accept Islam and their provinces name changed from Kafiristan to Nuristan (province luminious with Islam) in our own lifetime.

Whatever tended to strengthen the Hindus would ipso facts constitute a menace to Islamic predominance. The same was seen in the late lamented British Indian Empire, when a Bengali who learnt military science in Mexico or France immediately became a political suspect and was ever afterwards shadowed by the CID as a potential traitor. But the British, while curbing the martial spirit of our educated classes, did not try to crush the Hindu mind at its source: they did not forbid the study of Hindu philosophy and the practice of the Hindu religion, rather encouraged them and opened the gates of the Temple of Western Science to us. Not so, the orthodox Muslim rulers of India.


From a 1950 article by Jadunath Sarkar

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby chaanakya » 25 Oct 2011 17:23

Surasena wrote:
The Kalash, who number just about 3,500, are spread over three valleys along the border with Afghanistan. For centuries they practiced polytheism and animal sacrifice without interference from the Muslim majority.

Bullshit.

As for saving them, that's "communal" and we are a "secular socialist republic".


What do you expect from Pigs newspaper. It has to be bullshit. None can find a singular instance where polytheism and animal sacrifice can be practiced without interference from Muslim Majority.

By saving them I only mean to train them to protest against perfidy.... help them fight these atrocities. Its statecraft and secular.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby member_19686 » 25 Oct 2011 17:39

chaanakya wrote:
What do you expect from Pigs newspaper. It has to be bullshit. None can find a singular instance where polytheism and animal sacrifice can be practiced without interference from Muslim Majority.

By saving them I only mean to train them to protest against perfidy.... help them fight these atrocities. Its statecraft and secular.

How long do you think they will last in the midst of these nut cases?

There are only 3500 of them surrounded by millions of Muslims.

I don't think they have a chance in hell unless they are shifted to a non Muslim area/country.

Btw now Nuristan is one of the more dangerous areas for the Brits and Americans, their ancestors watched silently as Jihad wiped out Nuristanis and now the same Islamized Nuristanis are a thorn in their flesh.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby chaanakya » 25 Oct 2011 18:30

Surasena wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
What do you expect from Pigs newspaper. It has to be bullshit. None can find a singular instance where polytheism and animal sacrifice can be practiced without interference from Muslim Majority.

By saving them I only mean to train them to protest against perfidy.... help them fight these atrocities. Its statecraft and secular.

How long do you think they will last in the midst of these nut cases?

There are only 3500 of them surrounded by millions of Muslims.



If they lasted this long, I think they would last long enough.

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Re: Balwaristan

Postby shiv » 11 Feb 2012 16:34



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