The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby suryag » 21 Oct 2019 00:23

Kamlesh ji’s murder and the girl’s gangrape and video recording is all part of spoiling the environment and create disturbances before RJB so that the verdict can be delayed on counts of unfavorable situation. Hope yogiji is keeping a count and ensure appropriate payback

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Katare » 21 Oct 2019 03:16

Very detailed and fact based lecture, lots of authentic pictures of excavated artifacts ......Ram mandir part starts at 30 min.


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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby tandav » 21 Oct 2019 07:56

Is there any open source database of the excavation finding of RJB-BM site. All the resources so far shared are people speaking about it but never showing it. If someone can share some links it will be very useful

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Oct 2019 08:11

So when if ever is this verdict coming?

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 21 Oct 2019 11:36

[quote="UlanBatori"]So when if ever is this verdict coming?[/quote]
Sirji
The verdict is coming but I think the 'Troika' have factored in the aftermath of it I hope.
The things that come to my mind:
1. Neo-Khilafat movement re: Turkey-Pakis-Malay combo.
2. Possible 'Teleportation' of the jihadist forces 'at large' currently following Turkish action
3,Home grown targeted killings a la 'Tiwari' type attack
4. Collective outpouring of 'feculent fluids' by the leftist-jihadi combo presstitutes
5. Tight lid kept on cash-moor blown apart
6. slowing down economy further hit by social unrest
7.Big ticket budget spending put on hold
I am saying these will happen but I want some of the 'grey beards' and 'silverbacks' on the forum to debate but please don't put the newcomer to the 'guillotine' :lol:
I remember getting 'roasted' on the Paki-Turk-Malay issue :((

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby niran » 21 Oct 2019 12:34

tandav wrote:Is there any open source database of the excavation finding of RJB-BM site. All the resources so far shared are people speaking about it but never showing it. If someone can share some links it will be very useful

file for Allahabad case documents, (1 10wheel truck full) you can then search the report and read it.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby tandav » 21 Oct 2019 13:48

In absence of any official data I am posting the Wiki link which seems to have covered what is being mentioned in the the videos uploaded above in words

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayodhya_dispute

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 21 Oct 2019 14:07

Well the judgements are a great place to start - http://elegalix.allahabadhighcourt.in/e ... ingPage.do

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Sachin » 21 Oct 2019 15:00

'Ayodhya verdict will have consequences for polity'
Reading through the report, the stance of Muslim side looks more like a veiled threat than any suggestion, or statement of facts.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Oct 2019 18:06

Rsatchi wrote:The verdict is coming but I think the 'Troika' have factored in the aftermath of it I hope.
The things that come to my mind:

R u not risking the same error as the Classmate cited by my grandmother who was doing PG work in Angreji at Madras U back in the old dins? (my source for all Shakespearean and D1ckensian quotes: I never read the trash in the original myself).
Another Classmate:
Results published. Only TWO got First Class

Cited Classmate:
Who's the other?

I would say, given the tendencies of this SC, that the betting is not heavily in favor of an all-yindoos-happy verdict. UBCN refuses to cite precise details bcause v r not unbiased.
All these amateur Legal Eagles and Hysterians making YouTube presentations etc are just fa*ting, IMO. Most important thing is buy stock in Mohan Meaking Breweries if not Kingfisher (which is tastier) anticipating 10,000% demand spike from yindoos trying to counter depression. Think Sabarimala^25

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 21 Oct 2019 18:36

UlanBatori wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:The verdict is coming but I think the 'Troika' have factored in the aftermath of it I hope.
The things that come to my mind:

R u not risking the same error as the Classmate cited by my grandmother who was doing PG work in Angreji at Madras U back in the old dins? (my source for all Shakespearean and D1ckensian quotes: I never read the trash in the original myself).
Another Classmate:
Results published. Only TWO got First Class

Cited Classmate:
Who's the other?

I would say, given the tendencies of this SC, that the betting is not heavily in favor of an all-yindoos-happy verdict. UBCN refuses to cite precise details bcause v r not unbiased.
All these amateur Legal Eagles and Hysterians making YouTube presentations etc are just fa*ting, IMO. Most important thing is buy stock in Mohan Meaking Breweries if not Kingfisher (which is tastier) anticipating 10,000% demand spike from yindoos trying to counter depression. Think Sabarimala^25

Touche to that :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby khatvaanga » 22 Oct 2019 02:29

Most important thing is buy stock in Mohan Meaking Breweries if not Kingfisher (which is tastier) anticipating 10,000% demand spike from yindoos trying to counter depression.
back in engg days we used say.. pass hue to khushi mein piyenge fail hue to gham mein.. so either ways Mohan Mekin stock is good option.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Oct 2019 09:45

Sub.Swamy's suggestion that the GOI should nationalise the site in the nation's interests is sage advice. It is an historical fact that almost all Muslim mosques were in the early part of Muslim invasions built upon Hindu shrines.Look at the Qutub Minar's surrounding buildings.Built using the elements of former Hindu temples and structures! The " Babri" structure refers to Babur,who invaded, sacked and pillaged. Not to the later Moghuls who built magnificent new cities like Fatehpur Sikri and the two great forts at Agra and Delhi with their new mosques.

That a Hindu temple/ shrine is beneath the destroyed structure is without doubt. Therefore, in the interests of all, and many enlightened Muslims too feel, the land must be handed over to the Hindu community in order that a grand temple to Lord Ram may be built as it is common belief that the site is the location of his birth. They could be compensated with land elsewhere, as there is no sanctity of the structure according to their faith.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 23 Oct 2019 13:05

Philip wrote:Not to the later Moghuls who built magnificent new cities like Fatehpur Sikri ...


Not quite.

Fatehpur Sikri: A Jain Pilgrimage Centre

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 28 Oct 2019 18:34

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 792643.cms
Will this have any calming effect on the 'peacefuls' issuing veiled threats on the verdict.
I suppose as long as it is green on green action they don't mind.
https://youtu.be/D0k-23SCIyI
And listen to this Prof from 5.22 onwards that the peacefuls only followed the prevalent tradition in the subcontinent that victorious Hindu kings destroyed and looted the temples of the vanquished.
And he goes on expound on the destruction of the Buddhist temples by the dharmic folks!

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Oct 2019 23:55

This dhaga should be locked. So many times I have rushed here thinking that TheirHonners had actually got their musharrafs out of bed and delivered The Verdict, only to be disappointed. Maybe rename the thread to RamJanmaBhoomi Purana? Because if the verdict is reasonable it will be challenged and lead to another 20-year standoff.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby dnivas » 29 Oct 2019 02:02

Hopefully 2 more weeks and we can lock this thread

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby dsreedhar » 29 Oct 2019 03:27

Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/D0k-23SCIyI
And he goes on expound on the destruction of the Buddhist temples by the dharmic folks!

That Prof. Faizan Mustafa guy is going about and giving lot of talk around. I have seen several other leftist and sicular folks online blame of Buddhist temples destruction by dharmic folks. How much of that is true? What is the story behind it and what really happened, who, where, how and when? That is one topic i did not find much information from dharmic side.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby sudarshan » 29 Oct 2019 07:28

dsreedhar wrote:That Prof. Faizan Mustafa guy is going about and giving lot of talk around. I have seen several other leftist and sicular folks online blame of Buddhist temples destruction by dharmic folks. How much of that is true? What is the story behind it and what really happened, who, where, how and when? That is one topic i did not find much information from dharmic side.


That's going to open a can of worms for them if they persist. The Bamiyan Buddhas were just the latest instance. They destroyed Buddhist universities and libraries (not to mention Buddhists themselves)! For all we know they just blamed their own destruction of Buddha viharas on Hindus. Bengal in general and Bangladesh in particular is a prime example of their ravages.

Maybe dharmics did some of this, maybe not. Maybe it was a reaction to even earlier actions on the part of Buddhists, maybe not. The evidence is very sketchy. I started a thread on Hindu-Buddhist relations a while ago, it's still buried in there somewhere. The thread was based on my reading of Fa Hian and Hsuan Tsang. Primarily because there's very little material from India itself on what actually happened between Hindus and Buddhists. One moment (or century) Buddhism was going great guns, ruling 90% of the Indian landmass, and next thing you know, it's all back to Hinduism, nobody seems to know how that happened. Adi Sankara was the end-game in this, He didn't seem to be the initiator of the process back to Hinduism - by the time He came, it was all pretty much wrapped up and the Hindu side was already on the ascendant.

But if this is an issue, let the Buddhists bring it up, if court settlements are the way to go, let the Buddhists take Hindus to court, and we'll see what comes of it. Or let the Buddhists come up with archaeological evidence. Why are these folks, of all people, acting as spokesmen for Buddhists? Do they accept Buddhism as a valid path to Moksha?

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Oct 2019 08:27

^^^Prof. Mustafa is misleading viewers. It's a tactic similarly used by the Europeans with the AIT to justify looting India. The only part where he makes sense is the recent history of property records, and even then given continuous human civilization in the Ganges valley for tens-of-thousands of years, religious/historical sites takes precedence. I don't buy his argument that Hindus persecuted Buddhists as the Indo-China empires such as the Khmer empire which existed from the 7th to 14th centuries AD which were Hindu-Buddhist. There was no tension.

Not much is known as many of the places like Nalanda and Taxila were ransacked and mass murdered by the Islamic invaders followed by the subsequent establishment of the Delhi Sultanate. Prior to that what are known as the Huns who invaded the Gangetic plains around the 5th century AD were known to have ransacked and murdered Buddhist monasteries. The Gupta dynasty pushed them out and many remaining Huns were converted to Rajputs (this is what has been told to me and I have no evidence to support this). What is needed is a study of Indian forts and the Rajput clans prior to 1200AD. This may lead to more detail on Hindu-Buddhists relations.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby arshyam » 29 Oct 2019 10:45

This theory is propounded in order to whitewash the real reason for Buddhism's demise in the sub-continent: Islamic invasions targeted Buddhist monasteries and temples alike (to that extent, one can say that they were secular), not to mention universities all over. But unlike decentralized Hindu thought and practices, Buddhism was more dependent on the existence of these monasteries and universities, so when they were destroyed, Buddhism declined along with it.

If Hindusim were really antagonistic toward Buddhism, we would not have seen widespread acknowledgment of Hindu myths and philosophies in East/South East Asia, where Buddhism is still a widely followed way of life. There would have been some undercurrent of tension, and someone would have written something somewhere. As it stands, there is no mention of such tensions by contemporaries as well as by any of the earlier travellers to India, though they have written a lot about the society as they observed it. The absence of which goes to show that the Hindu-Buddhist tension is a creation of these "eminent historians" to aid their narrow self-serving ends.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 29 Oct 2019 11:55

Mort Walker wrote: Prior to that what are known as the Huns who invaded the Gangetic plains around the 5th century AD were known to have ransacked and murdered Buddhist monasteries. The Gupta dynasty pushed them out and many remaining Huns were converted to Rajputs (this is what has been told to me and I have no evidence to support this). What is needed is a study of Indian forts and the Rajput clans prior to 1200AD. This may lead to more detail on Hindu-Buddhists relations.


The same people who are pushing for AIT are also pushing that Rajputs somehow are not local to India and are Huns or Greeks etc etc. There is no basis for that argument. In fact this idea comes from the basic idea that somehow "Hindus" and Indians are not "Marshall" race or/and there are no original "Marshall races" in that is now Bharat. The word and name of Rajaputhra may be new one but these people are always there and are called one name or other from time to time.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 29 Oct 2019 12:18

arshyam wrote:This theory is propounded in order to whitewash the real reason for Buddhism's demise in the sub-continent: Islamic invasions targeted Buddhist monasteries and temples alike (to that extent, one can say that they were secular), not to mention universities all over. But unlike decentralized Hindu thought and practices, Buddhism was more dependent on the existence of these monasteries and universities, so when they were destroyed, Buddhism declined along with it.

If Hindusim were really antagonistic toward Buddhism, we would not have seen widespread acknowledgment of Hindu myths and philosophies in East/South East Asia, where Buddhism is still a widely followed way of life. There would have been some undercurrent of tension, and someone would have written something somewhere. As it stands, there is no mention of such tensions by contemporaries as well as by any of the earlier travellers to India, though they have written a lot about the society as they observed it. The absence of which goes to show that the Hindu-Buddhist tension is a creation of these "eminent historians" to aid their narrow self-serving ends.


Taking some prominent Buddhist places across India such as Bodh Gaya (Bihar), Sanchi (Madhya Pradesh), Ajanta (Maharastra), Nagarjuna Konda* (AP/Telangana) from 1-2 millennia ago, we don't see any violent conflicts as reasons for Buddhism to decline? Only Bodh Gaya is still flourishing but other centers declined over time as people in India never saw "Buddhism" as separate "religious" thought process. Over the years they put Buddha as God and moved on.

* Nagarjuna Konda(Hill) area was major Buddhist center, for most likely Madhyamika Buddhism of Nagarjuna Acharya, 2 millennia ago but only meme now from there is a caste name as that Buddhist area along Krishna River was once called

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rsatchi » 29 Oct 2019 12:53

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/decline_o ... m_in_india
The decline was multi-factorial
The decline and fall of Gupta empire and later invasion of Huns and Islam was the last nail.
Read the 'Kannauj Triangle'
The Karnataka based dynasties were staunchly Hindu=Shaivite or Vashnavaite. The only aberrant ones were partly the Gangas who patronized Jainism
And with the fall of Taxila, Nalanda , Pataliputra sounded the death knell of Buddhism in India.
Adi Shankara later led the revival of Hindism in the vacant/vacuum in the north

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2019 04:27

Ahead of Ayodhya verdict, RSS cancels several events in November, appeals everyone to accept the verdict and maintain peace

The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) has cancelled all its scheduled events lined up for the month of November and has asked its workers to cancel their respective touring schedules ahead of the Supreme Court’s verdict in the Ram Janmabhumi-Babri Masjid title dispute case slated on November 17.

Media reports quoting RSS sources have stated that the Sangh wants to be on alert during the crucial time of the verdict and after its announcement. “After the verdict, in case something happens, then the blame should not be pinned on them”, claimed reports.

Media reports also claimed that the organisation has also reportedly decided to call off a meeting scheduled from 31 October to 4 November in Haridwar, keeping in view the pending decision in the case. But RSS denied the reports and said that the meeting will take place as scheduled, but it has been shifted from Haridwar to Delhi.

RSS has also said that it is everyone’s responsibility to maintain peace in the country after SC verdict on Ayodhya. They said that the Supreme Court is expected to deliver its verdict on the Ram Janmabhoomi in the coming days, and whatever may be the verdict, people should accept it with open mind. They said that this matter will also be discussed in the meeting.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby KJo » 01 Nov 2019 07:31

^--- Looks like RSS already knows what the verdict is going to be. :twisted:

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 01 Nov 2019 07:59

How RSS welcomed sabarimala verdict, am not very hopeful about them, they've used same words as gandhi would.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 01 Nov 2019 08:23

We will win this one sir. That is what I strongly believe. So let us not worry too much.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 01 Nov 2019 08:31

Wonder about gas cylinder futures... (JUST KIDDING!!!)

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 01 Nov 2019 08:36

We need to be careful about the fallout - It will be there. A low-intensity Jihad is already on. So those living in India and even abroad better be careful

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2019 08:48

Dont count your chickens before they hatch. What if the verdict is against or ambiguous 50:50 ?

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 01 Nov 2019 10:03

Exactly.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 01 Nov 2019 22:07

dsreedhar wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:https://youtu.be/D0k-23SCIyI
And he goes on expound on the destruction of the Buddhist temples by the dharmic folks!

That Prof. Faizan Mustafa guy is going about and giving lot of talk around. I have seen several other leftist and sicular folks online blame of Buddhist temples destruction by dharmic folks. How much of that is true? What is the story behind it and what really happened, who, where, how and when? That is one topic i did not find much information from dharmic side.

The 'talk' is about blaming others (hindoo here) for what was clearly done by invaders. Check out intelectual kshatriya sitaram Goel s work on that.
Not much is known as many of the places like Nalanda and Taxila were ransacked and mass murdered by the Islamic invaders followed by the subsequent establishment of the Delhi Sultanate

If not much is known why blame hindoo. We (not brf or such) seem to be going weak on verify part of 'trust but verify' what is passed across.
Last edited by vishvak on 01 Nov 2019 22:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 01 Nov 2019 22:08

if it is against, would common people Hindus wake up and start demonstrations? i am not suggesting they do but there is that. It is better to demonstrate only after a week or two.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 02 Nov 2019 10:17

Respect SC judgment, say mosques across UP

In Lucknow, Imam of Aishbagh Eidgah and executive member of of All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) Maulana Khalid Rasheed Farangi Mahali made an emphatic appeal to this effect in his address before Friday prayers.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Santosh » 02 Nov 2019 10:56

The verdict is only limited to who owns that 2.66 acres of land. Vedict is not about
- whether it is the birth place of Shri Ram or not (it is our belief and article of faith. We don't need to prove anything to anyone)
- whether mandir existed there before masjid was built or not
- whether mandir can be built or not
Mandir will be built whether verdict comes in our favor or not. Worst case is we get 2/3 of the land as decided by Prayagraj high court. Best case is we get all of it. Mandir to wahin banayenge.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 02 Nov 2019 12:00

There is no worst case, should court give such an order, I'd expect BJP to bring in an ordinance IMMEDIATELY. They've milked RJB enough for nearly 2 decades. Not only that Kashi and Mathura as well.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 02 Nov 2019 13:31

Karthik S wrote:There is no worst case, should court give such an order, I'd expect BJP to bring in an ordinance IMMEDIATELY. They've milked RJB enough for nearly 2 decades. Not only that Kashi and Mathura as well.


IF BJP was not there and Kar Sevaks did not do the action on 6 Dec 1992 what would have happened, some patience. There is a network which needs to be dismantled first. You always want them to make a Bansai charge and die, while others use guerrilla tactics and survive.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 02 Nov 2019 15:32

^^
Absolutely.

Between a choice of getting nothing done vs getting something done, the choice always has to be to get something done. Someone has written a twitter thread on strange behavior of some claiming to speak for Yindu causes that is unthinking in many ways. Will try to locate and post it here.

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Re: The Ram Janmbhoomi Verdict: News and Discussion

Postby Vips » 02 Nov 2019 16:16

In 10 days, four Supreme Court rulings may change India as we know it.

In a span of 10 working days starting November 4, Supreme Court benches led by CJI Ranjan Gogoi will deliver four important judgments, including the verdict in the Ayodhya land dispute, which can potentially have far-reaching impact in the social, religious and political sphere of the country.

The Ayodhya case, which has been a pivotal point of India’s socio-religious cauldron since 1858 and litigation on which has been going on since 1885, will ink a new chapter in the lengthy history of the dispute.

Days ahead of what is going to be a landmark verdict, speculation is rife whether the five-judge bench will render a unanimous verdict? Unanimity over such a contentious issue, which has divided Hindus and Muslims vertically, would be welcome as it would remove any ambiguity that could arise in case of a 4-1 or 3-2 decision.

In 1934, a communal riot in Ayodhya had damaged the three domes of the Babri mosque and it had to be reconstructed by the British with money raised by imposing fines on Hindu residents of the town.

Litigation over the disputed structure resumed afresh in 1950 after idols were placed under the central dome on the intervening night of December 22-23, 1949. A Hindu devotee, Gopal Singh Visharad, had filed a suit in 1950 seeking the right to worship the idols under the central dome. Nirmohi Akhara, which seeks priestly rights, filed a suit in 1959 followed by Sunni Waqf Board in 1961. The deity, through next friend, filed a suit in 1989, three years before the mosque was demolished.

The CJI is heading three other benches which will deliver verdicts on petitions seeking review of the SC judgments allowing entry of women of all ages into Sabarimala Ayyappa temple, giving a clean chit to the government in the Rafale deal and a petition seeking to bring the CJI’s office under the ambit of RTI Act.

A five-judge bench headed by CJI Gogoi had on February 6 reserved its verdict on 65 petitions, including 57 seeking review of the SC’s September 28 judgment allowing entry of women of all ages into the Sabarimala temple.

The petitioners had argued that since Lord Ayyappa at Sabarimala was a celibate, the court must not interfere with the tradition of barring entry of women in the menstrual age group of 10-50 years.

Another five-judge constitution bench headed by the CJI had reserved its verdict on April 4 on an appeal filed by the SC registry against a Delhi high court judgment, on a petition by RTI activist Subhash Chandra Agrawal, allowing the CJI’s office to be brought under the ambit of RTI Act.

The other high-voltage case pending decision before a three-judge bench headed by the CJI is the review petitions challenging the SC’s decision last year giving a clean chit to the NDA government on purchase of 36 fully loaded Rafale fighter jets from France under an inter-governmental agreement.

The bench had on May 10 reserved its verdict on the petitions seeking a CBI inquiry into alleged corruption and irregularities in the deal.


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