Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

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Dilbu
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Dilbu »

Stocks slip despite Saudi loan extension
Stocks fell on Monday as rupee’s relentless degradation versus dollar, which has been driving investors deeper into the sidelines, offset the optimism from a rollover of $3 billion deposits by Saudi Arabia, traders said. Brokerage Arif Habib Ltd, in its post-session analysis, said, the PSX closed lower after having failed to cross 42,000 points level despite a bullish open. “The rupee continued to lose ground versus the even after SFD (Saudi Fund for Development) rolled over deposits of $3 billion for another year,” it reported.
kit
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by kit »

Paki army is self-sufficient anyway and not worried about floods or whatever, so on with the jihadi stuff and foreign militant nexus in UK stan and Canadian Khalistan, very soon they wont have a viable state anyway
Manish_P
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Dilbu wrote:Looks like no additional assistance is going to come from IMF for flood assistance.
IMF to support Pakistan's flood relief, reconstruction efforts 'under current programme'
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) on Sunday said it would support flood relief and reconstruction efforts in Pakistan under the current programme agreed to between the two, according to a statement from the IMF's resident representative in the country, Esther Perez Ruiz....
Ditto for the ADB?

ADB to provide ‘significant’ relief, rehabilitation package for flood-hit Pakistan
..
For the short and medium-term,the bank said it would use ongoing projects to repair damaged infrastructure, including roads and irrigation infrastructure, and to support the development and financial stability of the agriculture sector to boost food security.
Manish_P
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Incidentally i wonder if Paki watcher BRFites have noticed a peculiar thing..

In the Paki English media almost all the photos of the flood hit baki's feature non-burkha clad women - what's more they are wearing attire very similar to like Indian traditional Rajasthani attire - bangles and all

Looks like the Baki's are cleverly taking care to not let negative connotations affect their begging... trying to invoke to the positive memories associated with India.

A sample .. one of the many seen in the past few days

Image
Dilbu
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Dilbu »

Govt in anxiety over rupee’s slide
According to official documents and background discussions with people involved in the process, Prime Minister (PM) Shehbaz Sharif has taken numerous meetings in recent days and also set up a committee under the chairmanship of Finance Minister Miftah Ismail “to stabilise foreign currency markets”.

Despite taking input from the intelligence agencies, :?: :roll: however, the authorities have failed to arrest the free fall of the currency. Continuing with the downtrend, the rupee on Monday closed at Rs237.91 to a dollar in the interbank. The rate in the open market was far above, trading around Rs244 to Rs246 to a dollar.

The constant downfall of the local currency has also eroded the gain of reduction in crude oil prices and people are forced to pay the highest rates in the country’s history.
However, some of the participants of the meeting were of the view that these small steps would not help to soothe the nerves of the markets, as the government needs to make bold steps to address the situation. They said the central bank and government were not willing to crackdown on bankers, who have made billions betting on the rupee.

Similarly, the government’s targets for the exports, imports and current account deficits were also unrealistic and need to be revised to bring some realism in the numbers and then it could plan the inflows and outflows accordingly.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

What is this 'debt-climate adaptation swap' swap exactly? The west tries to force China-India & others to pay the bakis compensation for emissions.. Which the baki politicos and jernails promptly re-invest in properties, pizza chains and F16s ?

Yawn - World leaders join Pakistan for SOS on flood and debt
Mr Guterres repeated the appeal he first made during his recent visit to Pakistan where he urged lenders to consider debt reduction to help those nations that were facing a possible economic collapse. “Creditors should consider debt reduction mechanisms such as debt-climate adaptation swaps,” he said again at the UNGA. “These could have saved lives and livelihoods in Pakistan, which is drowning not only in floodwater, but in debt.”
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Dilbu »

Rupee closes at record low of 239.65 against dollar
KARACHI: The Pakistani rupee continued to fall for the 14th consecutive session on Wednesday and hit a record historic low against the US dollar, with analysts expecting further depreciation of the local unit.

The rupee has been one of the worst performing currencies in the emerging markets and has fallen by nearly 9% so far this month owing to wide-ranging factors.

In the interbank market, the rupee plunged to 239.65 after losing 0.74, according to the data from the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP), down in value from the previous session's close of 238.91.

The dollar now stands only Rs0.29 short of the all-time high level of Rs239.94 on July 28, 2022.
g.sarkar
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/pak ... 56765.html
Pakistan: Petrol prices near ₹240 per litre after latest revision
21 Sep 2022

In another jolt to the inflation-hit Pakistani citizens, Shehbaz Sharif's government on Wednesday hiked the petrol price by ₹1.45 per litre. With this the new revised petrol rates have surged to ₹237.43 per litre from ₹235.98 per litre in India's neighbouring country.
In a notification by the finance division of the Government of Pakistan, the price of light diesel ha sbeen reduced to ₹4.26 per litre, and the kerosene oil was reduced by Rs8.30 per litre on September 31.
However, the price of High-Speed Diesel remains unchanged.
The latest price of petroleum products in Pakistan are:
Petrol: ₹237.43/litre
Diesel: ₹247.43/litre
Kerosene: ₹202.02/litre
Light diesel oil: ₹197.28/litre
The Pakistani government said the increase in prices of petroleum products is due to the fluctuating global oil prices and exchange rate variation.
......
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-gas-bill
Why should we in Pakistan pay for catastrophic floods we had no part in causing?
Sherry Rehman, 21 Sep 2022

The climate crisis has accelerated at pace. When temperatures crossed 53C in Pakistan, the summer of 2022 turned our southern towns into the hottest places on the planet, melting our glaciers, burning our forests, scorching our crops. But nothing prepared the country for the biblical flooding that saw a third of Pakistan inundated by an ocean of water, surpassing even the 2010 disaster in magnitude and frequency.
Scientific modelling now attributes the extreme flooding in our country to the climate crisis, and the catastrophe presents a clear warning to all those who have set their climate clocks to another few decades. Previously unthinkable doomsday scenarios began to look like the inevitable: Sindh and Balochistan provinces transformed into horizon-free planes of unbroken water, with no land to pitch tents on, no rooftops left to huddle on. More than 33 million people were rendered destitute; 1,500 people died while the country struggled, in shock, to pick up the pieces.
Aside from the map of human misery that this climate emergency presents, the costs of rebuilding and adapting to such new extreme weather is a cause for anxiety. While the world begins forgetting, Pakistan still must wade through the relief stages of the crisis, with a new generation of climate migrants looking for shelter. Just providing for baseline disaster needs such as shelter and food requires immediate funding, leaving us no space to rebuild livelihoods or preserve crops.
......
Gautam
Manish_P
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Bidenwa trying to up the economic warfare pressure on Cheen using rent-boy

Yawn - Biden urges world to help ‘underwater’ Pakistan
President Biden called on “major global creditors including the non-Paris Club countries to transparently negotiate debt forgiveness for lower income countries to forestall broader economic and political crises around the world”.

He said that instead of infrastructure projects that “generate huge and large debt without delivering on the promise advantages,” consider other ways to help developing nations.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Dilbu »

Pakistan’s economy to slow down to 3.5pc in FY23 due to climate headwinds: ADB
The Asian Development Bank (ADB) said on Wednesday that while Pakistan’s economic growth reached around six per cent in FY22, it was expected to slow down in the current fiscal year to 3.5pc because of double-digit inflation, climate headwinds and policy efforts.

In the latest Asian Development Outlook update, the ADB revised Pakistan’s growth estimates from 4.5 to 3.5pc amid devastating floods, policy tightening, and critical efforts to tackle sizeable fiscal and external imbalances.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by rsingh »

I think this is Chinese tlik to save face fol lil blades. Electricity is extreme expensive, infrastructure is crumbling , surviving on IMF handouts, exports are low, corruption,almost zero foreign investment, dollar is running fast towards 300 , floods,lack of medicine.......and they will grow 3%. That is a joke.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Vips »

Yes. Consider also that there is going to be a massive shortfall in production of Wheat, Rice and Cotton and this will be having a multiplier effect on Pakistanis as more then 50% of the population is directly/indirectly dependent on Agriculture.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by neeraj »

Amounts pledged and delivered to Pakistan for flood relief are 'peanuts'

The cold, hard truth is that developed states can spend billions of dollars on waging war, yet are quite stingy when it comes to helping developing states cope with catastrophes. Both the US and EU have funnelled billions of dollars into the Ukraine war, while the cost of America’s Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns is in the trillions. Yet both these foreign actors have given only a few million dollars for Pakistan’s flood relief. :((

It should be reiterated that Pakistan is not asking for charity, but justice :rotfl: , as the prime minister has stressed. There is wide consensus that the floods were exacerbated by climate change, and Pakistan has hardly contributed to greenhouse gas emissions, and is paying the price for the ecological negligence of others.

While the global economy may be slowing down, our foreign friends can certainly do more to help Pakistan rebuild. Moreover, Pakistan’s elite must loosen their purse strings and help fellow citizens in this time of dire crisis.

The middle class is hard-pressed and cannot donate much due to economic stagnation; but those with means can certainly make a greater contribution to the rehabilitation effort.

Further, foreign creditors should also consider the UN secretary general’s appeal for debt reduction and debt-swap mechanisms. Pakistan is at this point in no position to immediately repay heavy debts, and the focus should be on rebuilding.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Very insulting indeed considering Pindi chana is the staple..

Meanwhile the floods have really come as a god-sent and given jihadistan a chance to bring out all sorts of sialkoti stats to increase the size of the begging reimbursement bowl..

yawn - Govt sees growth rate falling to 2pc amid floods
The official estimate for a revised GDP growth rate at 2pc is in sharp contrast to the 3.5pc growth rate forecast by the Asian Development Bank (ADB) a day earlier on Wednesday. The State Bank of Pakistan had earlier projected 2.4pc growth rate, while the government had been estimating a 2.2 to 2.3pc growth rate for the current year.

As a consequence, Pakistan would need to have “continuous and constant engagement” with the development partners, lenders and donors :rotfl: to meet the financing needs of rehabilitation and reconstruction
Sticking point seems to be this..
He said preliminary damage needs assessment had put the total losses and reconstruction costs of the flood-related damages to about $30bn that was subject to change following on-ground verification — a mandate given to a core group of international agencies and development partners like UN organisations, the World Bank and Asian Development Bank, European Union and friends like Turkiye.
Even ummah birather Turkiye is demanding verification.. :((
ricky_v
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by ricky_v »

ft article, disgust is too mild a word
https://archive.ph/OwI3S
Flood-hit Pakistan should suspend debt repayments, says UN policy paper
The memorandum, which the UNDP will share with Pakistan’s government this week, argues that creditors should consider debt relief so Islamabad can prioritise financing its disaster response over repaying loans.
Pakistan’s payments could be “suspended at the earliest to free up fiscal space for urgent disaster response and recovery, social protection and development needs in the country, which have been aggravated by the catastrophic floods”, the draft says.
It also proposes some restructuring or debt swaps, whereby creditors would forgo repayments in return for Pakistan agreeing to invest in climate change-resilient infrastructure.
“Without China, there would be no deal,” said Sakib Sherani, head of research firm Macro Economic Insights in Islamabad, adding that it would be in Beijing’s self-interest to assist Pakistan. “When a particular debtor is not in a position to pay, then sometimes it makes sense for the lender . . . to go softer for a while,” he said.
The UNDP and Pakistan’s government are also jointly preparing a series of initiatives to attract private climate financing, such as green bonds. The agency is preparing a “technical assistance facility” to help Pakistan raise debt and equity from capital markets to invest in climate change resilience.
A silver lining probably, china gets shafted as well.
This is something that should be hardcoded into every policy-makers' psyche, if not already, pakistan will always have external support, debts, nukes nothing matters. Cutting that cancer into manageable chunks is a hard enough task already, but much like its pakistaniyat, the cancer will never be cured by conventional means.
S_Madhukar
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by S_Madhukar »

Afghanistan is dry and Bakistan is wet with floods. May be population should just move to Afghanistan or merge with them ?! 1 - 1 = 2 says my madrasa math which is also how Baki economy growth is calculated. Also to convince ummah Brother of the bird kind Bakis should change the flag background to red. :rotfl:
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by g.sarkar »

There is nothing in Afghanistan to look forward to, so no one is going there. The Mard-e-Momin would prefer to come to India with all excess population and start Gazwa-e-Hind. Their leaders would prefer to continue to retire in the West with all the aid money.
Gautam
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Atmavik »

pkr up to 243 now as dollar strengthens.
Deans
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Deans »

Atmavik wrote:pkr up to 243 now as dollar strengthens.
Triple century is near, Inshallah !
Last edited by Deans on 26 Sep 2022 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
Deans
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Deans »

rsingh wrote:I think this is Chinese tlik to save face fol lil blades. Electricity is extreme expensive, infrastructure is crumbling , surviving on IMF handouts, exports are low, corruption,almost zero foreign investment, dollar is running fast towards 300 , floods,lack of medicine.......and they will grow 3%. That is a joke.
If GDP growth is 3% (let us humor them and assume so). The top 1% grow at around 4% and the bottom 99% by 2.6%
The official population growth is 2.6%
So 99% of the country have 0 increase in per capita income (compared to 5+ in India)
This is before the impact of floods - which has affected 50% of their exports (cotton).
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Elites feeling the pinch - 'Editorial' in Yawn

Debt deferment
PAKISTAN is seeking deferment of its bilateral debt of nearly $10bn for a few years, which, if approved by the wealthy Paris Club creditors, will save it $1.1bn in loan repayments this fiscal year. That will ease pressure on the nation’s dwindling foreign exchange reserves, that have already dropped to $8.3bn, and generate some space for the government to rehabilitate and reconstruct after the floods.

An announcement to this effect was made by Finance Minister Miftah Ismail a day after the prime minister said in an interview that all hell would break loose if the rich countries did not immediately provide Pakistan debt relief to help it get back on its feet. # SOP of blackmail by Jihadistan - Pay us or we will create headaches for all
..

The experience of recent months shows that bilateral and multilateral creditors are reluctant to advance fresh loans due mainly to our constant craving for their money and failure to put our house in order. But the world must help Pakistan in its tough times.
Dilbu
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Dilbu »

The guy has finally given up.
Pakistan: Miftah Ismail steps down as finance minster
Islamabad: Pakistan's finance minister Miftah Ismail said on Sunday he planned to formally resign from the role.

"I have verbally resigned as Finance Minister," Ismail said in a Tweet, adding that he had signalled his plans to the country's Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif during a meeting. "I will tender a formal resignation upon reaching Pakistan," he added.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by CalvinH »

30% of Paki external debt is of Chinese origin. Most of it tied up in Commercial contracts with PSEs and Chinese financial institutions. Pakis should ask their tallel and deepel friends to write this off before asking other lenders.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by g.sarkar »

CalvinH wrote:30% of Paki external debt is of Chinese origin. Most of it tied up in Commercial contracts with PSEs and Chinese financial institutions. Pakis should ask their tallel and deepel friends to write this off before asking other lenders.
Please Sirji, there are just 2 laws that can not be broken under any circumstance:
1. China does not give any thing for free.
2. Pakistan never returns any loan it has received.
Gautam
CalvinH
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by CalvinH »

Pakis have solved this inherent contradiction. Pakistan doesn't return the loan but offers many other things and services in return.

The gradual and now accelerating decline in Paki economy is directly related these substitute payments provided to the loan owners.
Manish_P
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

CalvinH wrote:Pakis have solved this inherent contradiction. Pakistan doesn't return the loan but offers many other things and services in return. ..
Pakistan offers one thing above all - a nuisance value to try and tie up India

A value used by all the powers that be - US, China, Russia (FSU), UK, the Gulf, France, ...
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by yensoy »

Hillary Clinton's famous "You can't keep snakes in your backyard..." quote is not only relevant to Pakistan cultivating terrorists and terrorism as state policy.

Time will prove that countries cultivating Pakistan and Pakiness as a policy of restraining and confining India should and will suffer similar consequences from the blowback which is certain to happen. Some have already tasted Paki medicine, others have yet to do so.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Deans »

CalvinH wrote:Pakis have solved this inherent contradiction. Pakistan doesn't return the loan but offers many other things and services in return.

The gradual and now accelerating decline in Paki economy is directly related these substitute payments provided to the loan owners.
The substitute payments are - 1000 cuts war against India (for which they are overbilling) & export of donkeys and wimmens.
Balance amount, Pak pays back the Chinese with IMF loans.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Bart S »

yensoy wrote:Hillary Clinton's famous "You can't keep snakes in your backyard..." quote is not only relevant to Pakistan cultivating terrorists and terrorism as state policy.

Time will prove that countries cultivating Pakistan and Pakiness as a policy of restraining and confining India should and will suffer similar consequences from the blowback which is certain to happen. Some have already tasted Paki medicine, others have yet to do so.

Moreover, the much hyped (in typical Pakjabi 'badke marna' fashion; nothing seems to insult Pakjabis more than the notion that India is dismissive of them or doesn't take them seriously) anti-India value is proving to be quite negligible at the end of the day, if you consider the overall scheme of things. The differential is just beginning and will continue widening, and it is already at the point that every blow that Pakis attempt to strike India with ends up weakening themselves or their sponsors rather than India.

Also, with the Modi govt, especially after the Article 370 withdrawal, Pakis (but to a larger extent India itself) have been exposed in the sense that 90% of Pakis ability to 'hold India back' has been proven to be Indians holding themselves back, much like an elephant that was chained as a baby thinking that it can't be free or take action or is weak even when grown and powerful enough that no chains can hold it. Examples would be Article 370, allowing Hurriyat to function, allowing terror funding, allowing Pakis to meet Hurriyat separatists, succumbing to nuclear blackmail and threats, the delusion that we need to be deferential to Pakis and put up with their crap because 'trade is in our interest' and 'a strong and prosperous Pakistan is good for India' etc.

So Pakis are becoming more and more of a useless investment even if they come at a low price or free.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

Bart S wrote:..
anti-India value is proving to be quite negligible at the end of the day, if you consider the overall scheme of things. The differential is just beginning and will continue widening, and it is already at the point that every blow that Pakis attempt to strike India with ends up weakening themselves or their sponsors rather than India.
Yes. and we have to maintain the pace and make it more and more costlier for the sponsors, till they give up using the w%@#e or become impotent themselves ..
Bart S wrote: ..90% of Pakis ability to 'hold India back' has been proven to be Indians holding themselves back..
and
Bart S wrote: So Pakis are becoming more and more of a useless investment even if they come at a low price or free.
Exactly why we see the sponsors investing more and more in Resident Non-Indians
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by mody »

There have been some noises about pakis wanting to resume trade with India and especially given their food situation, they would love to import food articles from India. I hope such a thing does not come to pass and neither do we offer them any aid or respite due to the flood situation.

However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:

1). Grant MFN status to India. This is a low hanging fruit and the pakis might agree to it. This will allow us to flood their markets with better goods then cheap Chinese trash.

2). Resolve the Sir Creek issue, as per our stand. Our stand is vindicated by the latest published maps before independence and also by all standard international norms. If this is resolved, it would open up the sector for oil and gas exploration, which is much needed at the moment.
Also, with the new UN law, we would gain much more area in our continental shelf and would open up our relatively shallow continental shelf on the western coast for exploration of oil and gas which can be a big help.
It would also show that issues can be resolved bilaterally between India and Pakistan. This is something that the pakis have been opposed to a for a long time and have been clamouring for third party involvement for years. If this issue is resolved bilaterally, we would always be able to point this out and say that other issues can also similarly be resolved bilaterally only.

3). Get Maulana Masood Azhar to be handed over. Reportedly he is ailing since a long time and does not really look after the day to day operations of JeM. Getting him would be a big propaganda and moral win for India.
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Larry Walker »

mody wrote: However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:
Regrettably this 'bania' attitude of Hindu civilization has been a bane for its sustenance and well-being. Pakistan was not created because Hindus oppressed Muslims rather it was created because Muslims could no longer oppress and subjugate Hindus and rule over them. And this idea of Pakistan had and still has overwhelming support of every Jihadi on this subcontinent. I am certain that provided any opportunity every Jihadi will be happy and feel pious duty to harm or conquer the Hindu kafir.
Now that we have a karma-cycle where Jihadi's are down and out and struggling for thier existence - some of our banias or bleeding-hearts want to pull them out of their quagmire for few gold coins !! Just think what would Pakis have done if situation was reversed ??!!
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Manish_P »

mody wrote:..

However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:

...
1. Land
2. Land
3. Land

Minus the momeens, of course

Bakistan had sold/ceded Land to China earlier hadn't they...
(Probably thinking that they would get it back when the US would take China down, with their geo strategic location)

Of course Baki enchandee will ensure they will never accept this condition..
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by Neela »

mody wrote:
3). Get Maulana Masood Azhar to be handed over. Reportedly he is ailing since a long time and does not really look after the day to day operations of JeM. Getting him would be a big propaganda and moral win for India.
I have a feeling this handing over (to the 72 virgins) will be done by us in 2023...early 2024 . We have democratic compulsions in 2024 you see. :rotfl:
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by g.sarkar »

It will not be safe to incorporate parts of Pakistan back into India (concept of Akhand Bharat) if we have to take in the Pak population. It would be far better to break Pakistan into small manageable parts and ensure that they feud among themselves. At the most India should take care of defense and foreign relations appointing a resident as the British did for the princely states. We may live to see this if there is a big war in Asia.
Modyji, I do not see trade restarting with Pakistan any time soon, under Modiji. We at BRF tend to name other countries a sort of Pakistan. For example White Paki for Australia, European Paki for Turkey etc. But that is unfair to Pakistan. Pakistan is way high up in the absolute Pakiness, if you compare it with other countries. It is the only country that will actively act to harm itself if that action were to harm India more. No other country is willing to go to that length. That is the reason why other powers will help Pakistan to survive, as it is a cheap way to check India's progress.
Gautam
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by ritesh »

Larry Walker wrote:
mody wrote: However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:
Regrettably this 'bania' attitude of Hindu civilization has been a bane for its sustenance and well-being. Pakistan was not created because Hindus oppressed Muslims rather it was created because Muslims could no longer oppress and subjugate Hindus and rule over them. And this idea of Pakistan had and still has overwhelming support of every Jihadi on this subcontinent. I am certain that provided any opportunity every Jihadi will be happy and feel pious duty to harm or conquer the Hindu kafir.
Now that we have a karma-cycle where Jihadi's are down and out and struggling for thier existence - some of our banias or bleeding-hearts want to pull them out of their quagmire for few gold coins !! Just think what would Pakis have done if situation was reversed ??!!
+100 well said.
Its Sadgun vikruti...haven't we suffered enough since Pritiviraj times?
yensoy
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by yensoy »

There is no "bania attitude" if we can get land minus people in return. That is exactly what should be our goal; unfortunately they will never take that deal because it will be the unraveling of pakfauj and pakistan as we know it. But in the future as the country disintegrates there may be great opportunities.
souravB
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by souravB »

mody wrote: However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:

1). Grant MFN status to India. This is a low hanging fruit and the pakis might agree to it. This will allow us to flood their markets with better goods then cheap Chinese trash.
Only & only IF the trade is done exclusively in INR. No dollar-shollar or INR-PKR swap BS.
3). Get Maulana Masood Azhar to be handed over. Reportedly he is ailing since a long time and does not really look after the day to day operations of JeM. Getting him would be a big propaganda and moral win for India.
How does that serve INDIA? Another Abdul will just take his place & India will have to spend considerable amount of diplomacy to put him into sanctions list, again.
If India is really on an asking spree & have an upper hand, why not ask for anti-terrorism "surveillance" op pass in POK & GB on the line of US doing in KP?
S_Madhukar
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by S_Madhukar »

Xiden will be very happy for us to be in GB quagmire will give them another leverage to torture us. We should simply close shop for these Bakis until 2047. Just a single dogged mission to make us the sone ki chidiya with bristling talons. We have too many internal issues to resolve before that. We could not cajole our internal Bakis to accept us what hope we can have from the outsiders.
mody
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Re: Pakistani Economic Stress Watch

Post by mody »

souravB wrote:
mody wrote: However, in the unlikely event that some trade relations are restored, we should demand something tangible in return, without which the process should be a non-starter.
I would like us to bargain for the following points before we re-start trade relations:

1). Grant MFN status to India. This is a low hanging fruit and the pakis might agree to it. This will allow us to flood their markets with better goods then cheap Chinese trash.
Only & only IF the trade is done exclusively in INR. No dollar-shollar or INR-PKR swap BS.
3). Get Maulana Masood Azhar to be handed over. Reportedly he is ailing since a long time and does not really look after the day to day operations of JeM. Getting him would be a big propaganda and moral win for India.
How does that serve INDIA? Another Abdul will just take his place & India will have to spend considerable amount of diplomacy to put him into sanctions list, again.
If India is really on an asking spree & have an upper hand, why not ask for anti-terrorism "surveillance" op pass in POK & GB on the line of US doing in KP?
Well out of the three points that I had put up...no.2 is the most desirable from my point of view.
The MFN status and trading in either INR or USD would be good.

Point no.3, is just to rub the paki noses in the dirt. It hardly matters to us. Instead I would much rather prefer a surgical strike to take out vermins like him.

All in all, I would much rather prefer that we let them stew in their own juices till the country implodes. The points that I putup were only IF the Indian Govt. does, against all good sense, decide to re-start trade, then we should get something more tangible in returns apart from just the trade money.
The poinst that I mentioned are something that I think would be able to pull off, in such a scenario.
Offcourse we could ask the pakis to cede land, say perhaps in Baltistan, but the paki fauj would never allow that, even if that means that all the aam abduls would be forced to start eating grass.
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