Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

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Vasu
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Vasu »

What a trove The Hindu is getting out to the masses. Waiting to see the television media go all out on these, which I haven't seen till now. This morning on DD News they did mention some of the headlines from the Hindu leaks in a section where they read the notable headlines from that morning's paper.

Meanwhile, back at the pigsty....

‘Elitist Congress leadership unwilling to engage with masses'
The “elitist leadership” of the Congress, including party president Sonia Gandhi and her children, are unwilling to go into the countryside in the Hindi belt to engage with the masses and regain their loyalty. Besides, there are the problems of “overreliance on the Gandhi brand to solve all problems” and sycophancy, which is seen as a licence to “backbite and squabble behind the scenes.”

This is the candid assessment of the internal state of the ruling party conveyed to Washington by the U.S. Embassy in January 2006.

The cable sent on January 27, 2006 (50883: confidential), reported that Congress weaknesses had become evident after the party gained power in 2004: “In the crucial Hindi belt, its elitist leadership (including Sonia Gandhi and her children) are unwilling to go into the countryside to engage with the masses and regain their loyalty. Inside the party, there is an over-reliance on the Gandhi brand to solve all problems. The insistence on outward displays of loyalty to the Gandhis has prevented the emergence of a strong and credible second tier leadership capable of mounting effective state-wide campaigns in crucial states like Uttar Pradesh and Karnataka.”

“The coterie surrounding the Gandhis believes that public loyalty to ‘Madam' gives them a license to backbite and squabble behind the scenes.

“The party leadership in Karnataka arrogantly dismissed JD(S) attempts to share power, insisting that Congress should predominate,” the Embassy cabled.

Referring to the All India Congress Committee's January 22, 2006 plenary session in Hyderabad, it noted how 10,000 party leaders and workers went to “extraordinary lengths to demonstrate their sycophantic loyalty to the Gandhi family.” Although Sonia Gandhi herself had requested that such demonstrations be held to a minimum, “participants staged disruptive demonstrations demanding that the party induct Rahul Gandhi into the leadership and provide him a space on the podium.”
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan No. 1 Partner against Al Qaeda: Nicholas Burns
“The U.S-India relationship was far more advanced in the private sector than government. India was not an ambivalent power, but one without a clear sense of global identity, with one foot still in the non-aligned camp and the other foot in the global actor camp.” That is how the then U.S. Under Secretary of State, R. Nicholas Burns, characterised India and its equation with the U.S. in a meeting held in Canberra on December 4-5, 2007. This is revealed in a cable, dated January 3, 2008, from the U.S. Embassy in Canberra ( 136155: secret/noforn).

Mr. Burns gave this assessment to his Trilateral Strategic Dialogue counterparts from Australia and Japan “at the TSD senior officials meeting (SOM).” Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Secretary Michael L ‘Estrange and Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister Mitoji Yabunaka represented their countries.

According to the cable, Mr. Burns stated that “Pakistan was our number one partner in the fight against al Qaida, and we supported the Musharraf government. Therefore, what happened in Pakistan was fundamental to our national security. U/S Burns also noted we are also paying attention to the Pakistan-India Composite Dialogue; while a hoped-for movement on Kashmir had been ‘put on ice' by recent developments in Pakistan, the situation was markedly better than 1998 or 2001-2002.”

The Japanese Deputy Foreign Minister was less enthusiastic. “Yabunaka shared his personal judgment that Musharraf was out of touch with the rest of Pakistan.” Yabunaka also “expressed concern about command and control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.”

The cable also summarises the presentation of Peter Varghese, who is currently Australia's High Commissioner in India but at that time holding another office. “Delivering an intelligence assessment, Australian Office of National Assessment Director General Peter Varghese said India was undergoing a historic transition, especially in regards to economic policy. Politically, while the nation had some sense of its intentions vis-a-vis China and South Asia, it had yet to articulate a strategic worldview. Much of India's future would be defined by its competitive relationship with China, which would shape its relations with the rest of East Asia. India would probably be less patient in its diplomatic relations than China, Varghese noted, but believed its ultimate interests lay with the forces of democracy and democratic change. India, Varghese concluded, viewed democracy as both a values-based and strategic asset.”
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

How India missed the bus for the top FAO slot
India missed a unique opportunity to place one of its leading lights in the field at the head of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) as their candidacy was offered too late for the 2005 election, a leaked cable dated July 28, 2004 ( 19191: confidential) from the U.S. Mission to the United Nations has revealed.

The names of Dr. M.S. Swaminathan, the driving force behind India's Green Revolution, and Dr. Amrita Patel, veterinarian and Chairman of the National Dairy Development Board, were proposed for the post of FAO Director-General by India's Permanent Representative Himachal Som at a private meeting with U.S. Ambassador to the Agencies for Food and Agriculture Tony P. Hall, on July 26, 2004.

In Mr. Hall's view, the proposals were “welcome,” but they came too late and were too disorganised. “Som had not done his homework to assess the current state of play, and was probably at too early a stage in his thinking to be able to table a serious initiative,” he wrote.

“This was a discussion we should have had four months ago.”

Dr. Jacques Diouf of Senegal, who was elected the FAO's first Director-General on November 8, 1993, had run the FAO for 12 years by the time of the 2005 election.

In comparison, “Som's seeming unawareness of Diouf's recent successes in lining up Caribbean and Islamic countries' endorsements, his lack of information about vacillation on term limits within the EU, and his failure thus far to even approach tentative Indian candidates,” Mr. Hall wrote, made India's “trial balloon … fairly limp.”

Two terms later, Mr. Diouf is still FAO Director-General. His tenure will be over in 2012.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

They look like EIC and other companies reports to directors back home!
In addition they reek of their own biases.

Most Indian interlocutors are what are called informers. They probably regret having said what they are quoted.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

I liked the response of Shri. Mohan Kumar, MEA Joint Secretary. Push back.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:They look like EIC and other companies reports to directors back home!
In fact, it is their duty to do so. I am pretty sure that Indian consular officials & diplomats also do the same.
In addition they reek of their own biases.
That is the part we must discard in these cable leaks. We must simply concentrate on exactly what transpired and quoted.
Most Indian interlocutors are what are called informers. They probably regret having said what they are quoted.
The term 'informers' has a wrong connotation. Many of them may well derive pecuniary and other benefits from being 'informers'. The fallout of the expose is that people might be extremely careful from now on at least in the short to medium term.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by sum »

SSridhar wrote:
I liked the response of Shri. Mohan Kumar, MEA Joint Secretary. Push back.
Yup..straight out of a BRF book of quotes :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Overall, seems like we are holding our own positions on most issues against the US except MMS on Pak issue and the INC ideological position when it comes to Israel...
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

But we must be, at the same time, careful to recognise that the INC's commitment to the Palestinian cause is no stronger than its real commitment to "secularism". In short, it will play all sides of the game... The Israeli response is simply a reflection of their own "surprise" probably perhaps by the degree of vehemence with which Sikri articulated his position. Most likely a case of poor message modulation, and nothing in the nature of long-term discord...
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

It is a relief to actually see a bit of how our MEA functions... While there may be soft-pedallers in there, it is not the case that people in gora-facing bureaucracies are simply lying down to be walked over...
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

JE Menon wrote:It is a relief to actually see a bit of how our MEA functions... While there may be soft-pedallers in there, it is not the case that people in gora-facing bureaucracies are simply lying down to be walked over...
Absolutely. I have always felt that 'trouble' comes from political leaders especially when they are in one-on-one meeting with their counterparts (goras or non-goras) without the reassuring presence of the bureaucrats.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Fortunately, at least where policy is concerned, that does not happen often... Recall the situation with Vajpayee and Musharraf, the latter being pissed that the "low level" Vivek Katju was sitting in and guiding the discussion :D
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

SSridhar wrote: Sum, it also shows the extensive contacts the American consular officials maintain. In Chennai at least that I know, these officials have become extremely proactive in the last six years that I have been living here. David Hopper earlier and Andrew Simkin later have been participating in functions all over Tamilnadu varying from Sanskrit classes, to iftaar parties to Carnatic music concerts etc. Very active indeed.
SSridhar guru, Please refer the US statements all the way to 1998 Nuke tests timeline. US has decided to invest several notches up to instil humanint for the future of South Asia. In that persuit they really had engaged Left and Right everywhere. We see this more prominently in the states that are/were cosidered as modern economic powerhouses. If you remember, US Ambassador met Chiranjeevi of AP post 2009 elections. I do not think that US is driving several policy initiatives of Indian Government is a CT anymore. In fact some day we will get the news that Kamalnath was replaced with Anand Sharma as Commerce Minister and Ramesh as Env minister also at the insistence of some Robert Clive. Kamalnath was very articulate in dealing with Doha and other rounds on emissions.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:They look like EIC and other companies reports to directors back home!
In addition they reek of their own biases.

Most Indian interlocutors are what are called informers. They probably regret having said what they are quoted.

PC's son claims he never said that!
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Satish Sharma aide showed U.S. Embassy employee cash to be used as ‘pay-offs’ in confidence vote
Five days before the Manmohan Singh government faced a crucial vote of confidence on the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal in 2008, a political aide to Congress leader Satish Sharma showed a U.S. Embassy employee “two chests containing cash” he said was part of a bigger fund of Rs. 50 crore to Rs. 60 crore that the party had assembled to purchase the support of MPs. The aide also claimed the four MPs belonging to Ajit Singh's Rashtriya Lok Dal had already been paid Rs. 10 crore each to ensure they voted the right way on the floor of the Lok Sabha.

In a cable, dated July 17, 2008, sent to the State Department (162458: secret), accessed by The Hindu through WikiLeaks, U.S. Charge d'Affaires Steven White wrote about a visit the Embassy's Political Counselor paid to Satish Sharma, who is described as “a Congress Party MP in the Rajya Sabha ... and a close associate of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi considered to be a very close family friend of Sonia Gandhi.”
...
...
Lest this should be construed by the visiting diplomats as an empty boast, Mr. Sharma's aide put his money where his mouth was: “Kapur showed the Embassy employee two chests containing cash and said that around Rupees 50-60 crore (about $25 million) was lying around the house for use as pay-offs.”
...
...
Independently, Mr. Sharma told the Political Counselor “that PM Singh and others were trying to work on the Akali Dal (8 votes) through financier Sant Chatwal and others, but unfortunately it did not work out.” He said “the Prime Minister, Sonia Gandhi, and Rahul Gandhi were committed to the nuclear initiative and had conveyed this message clearly to the party.” Efforts were also on to try and get the Shiv Sena to abstain. Further, “Sharma mentioned that he was also exploring the possibility of trying to get former Prime Minister Vajpayee's son-in-law Ranjan Bhattacharya to speak to BJP representatives to try to divide the BJP ranks.”
...
...
“Another Congress Party insider told PolCouns that Minister of Commerce and Industry Kamal Nath is also helping to spread largesse. ‘Formerly he could only offer small planes as bribes,'” according to this interlocutor, ‘now he can pay for votes with jets.'”
...
...
The fact that Congress politicians could speak so freely to American diplomats about their bribing spree during the run up to the confidence vote — and that the latter could be so blasé about the subversion of democracy — underlines the all-encompassing but ultimately corrosive nature of the “strategic partnership” the two governments were trying to build.
...
Wasn't Sant Chatwal given padma award last year? For services to the congress party :roll:

So, the dirty linen of PM too is coming out. When the BJP MPs brought in cash and dumped inside the parliament, there were cries of having "defiled the parliament". Looks like they are vindicated now

Added later: Expect parliament to be again disrupted from today with no business taking place. Anyway, the session was coming to an end
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

^^^

I wonder if this explains the laxity in putting a lid on fake Pakistan printed Indian currency.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by suryag »

All involved people named would say that they didnt say it, some might even produce doctor's ceritificate that they had throat infection that day or some might say they dont understand english or they are dumb(like the impotent excuse offered by influential rapists). Why no bhajpa names coming out ? are they untouchables to embassy officials too ? Good for the country if thats the case
Last edited by suryag on 17 Mar 2011 08:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

JE Menon wrote:Recall the situation with Vajpayee and Musharraf, the latter being pissed that the "low level" Vivek Katju was sitting in and guiding the discussion :D
That's true, JEM. But, there were troubling indicators even then that far too much was conceded before the situation was retrieved and hence the Musharraf angst against Vivek Katju. Of course, Musharraf had Vivek katju's earlier involvements in dealing with Pakistan in his mind as well (Kandahar and Al Faran kidnap). Anyway, this should probably be discussed elsewhere.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

^^^ Wasn't LKA too blamed for it? After the agra meeting, mushy said a senior minister on Indian side opposed the deal after he and vajpayee had agreed on some stuff
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

suryag wrote:All involved people named would say that they didnt say it, some might even produce doctor's ceritificate that they had throat infection that day or some might say they dont understand english or they are deaf(like the impotent excuse offered by influential rapists).
that they had throat infection that day :)

MK Narayanan, Patturajan, Karthi Chidambaram . . . all have denied this. As I said, their denial should be discarded. We should assume the ad verbatim quotations as truths and discard the analysis and conclusions of the US diplomats..
Why no bhajpa names coming out ? are they untouchables to embassy officials too ? Good for the country if thats the case
Oh, no. Nobody is an untouchable for the Americans. In their Realpolitik mode, they even talk to the Taliban nowadays and soon probably also Al Qaeda. Untouchability was long since eradicated as an evil practice. So, the BJP names will surface at some point. Currently, somehow I see a lot of animosity against the Congress among The Hindu barons. So, they are taking it out against the Congress first.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Muppalla wrote: I do not think that US is driving several policy initiatives of Indian Government is a CT anymore. In fact some day we will get the news that Kamalnath was replaced with Anand Sharma as Commerce Minister and Ramesh as Env minister also at the insistence of some Robert Clive. Kamalnath was very articulate in dealing with Doha and other rounds on emissions.
Muppalla, what you say is especially true with the present government. Kamalnath's removal from Commerce Ministry could be a suspicious case, as you say.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by sum »

So, the BJP names will surface at some point. Currently, somehow I see a lot of animosity against the Congress among The Hindu barons. So, they are taking it out against the Congress first.
Only difference is that even the mention of any BJP guy in any cable will make it as headlines in any MSM channel ( with calls for the person in question to quit politics) whereas these blatant criminal stuff which the "secular" parties have boasted about to the US will not even get a mention in any MSM and will be swept over.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

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Satellite launch in India torpedoes Italy-US relationship
The launch of the Italian satellite AGILE on board an Indian-built rocket from Sriharikota threw U.S.-Italian relations out of kilter in 2007, after the U.S. maintained that Italy had re-exported classified U.S. defence technology to India without a proper licence.

In a confidential cable ( 110065: confidential) sent to the Secretary of State's office and U.S. embassies in India and Paris, U.S. Ambassador to Italy Ronald P. Spogli revealed that AGILE carried on board a reaction wheel assembly that was included on the U.S. munitions list and subject to U.S. export controls. The Americans, the testily worded May 26 cable showed, had engaged with Italy in Washington and Rome for up to a year before AGILE's April 23 launch, advising Rome that it would have “potential negative consequences for economic bilateral negotiations” but that the Italians had “disregarded” their council.

Italian response

Minister Giovanni Manfredi, Head of Office VI (Energy, Space, S&T Cooperation, Information Society, and Nuclear Issues) of Italy's Directorate General for Multilateral Economic and Financial Affairs gave a phlegmatic response to the delivery of “a strongly worded protest” by U.S. ECMIN Thomas Delaware.

“Manfredi,” wrote Mr. Spogli, “made little attempt to defend ASI and/or the Ministry of Universities' decision to authorize AGILE's Indian launch, disregarding MFA's counsel. He explained that the MFA has no authority over either the Agency or the Ministry.” He also told the U.S. the satellite “probably did not deliberately violate U.S. export control regulations,” given efforts to remove other defence components originally ordered for AGILE. He said the U.S. had handled Italy's Carlo Gavazzi Spazio's export licence requests in a “confusing” way and Italy had relied upon the assurances of the U.S. company Goodrich regarding the reaction wheel component.

The successful launch of AGILE put India among an exclusive group of nations whose space programmes were to commercial use. The Italian media, to Washington's chagrin, reported “little but tough” Italy resisting an American attempt to restrict Italian research.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

A quiet India-Pakistan meeting on 26/11
Pakistan and India cooperated in the 2008 Mumbai attack investigations far more than they publicly disclosed.

India suspended the Composite Dialogue after the 26/11 attacks and dismissed the Pakistan proposal for a joint investigation. While both sides publicly engaged in mutual recrimination and accused each other of non-cooperation in bringing culprits to book, behind the scenes they were sharing information through the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

But the cooperation could have gone further than that. A cable accessed by The Hindu through WikiLeaks indicates that Indian and Pakistani intelligence officials may have even held a trilateral meeting with U.S. officials to discuss the case.

It is not known for certain if the meeting was held. But it is clear from the June 2, 2009 cable ( 209723: secret/noforn), sent by U.S. Embassy Charge d'Affaires Peter Burleigh, that a trilateral meeting was scheduled for July 6, 2009, in the U.S.


The cable mainly conveys Indian anger at the release of Laskhar-e-Taiba/Jamat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Saeed after the Lahore High Court struck down his detention as “illegal” on June 2, 2009.

The release would fan suspicions in India about Pakistan's willingness to crack down on India-focussed terror groups and the sincerity of the Mumbai investigation, the U.S. official wrote. It would also “nearly certainly” set back efforts to get the two sides to hold bilateral talks at a political level, he predicted.

Despite this, the cable noted, Indian officials were looking forward to a planned July 6 trilateral meeting in the U.S.

“In meeting with LegAtt [Legal Attache, an FBI post in U.S. diplomatic missions] on June 2, Indian Joint Directors of the Intelligence Bureau reiterated that they hope to meet with their Pakistani counterpart investigators at a trilateral meeting in the US on July 6,” Mr. Burleigh noted.

But it is clear India continued to mistrust Pakistani intentions despite the backroom cooperation.

The IB officials, who are not named in the cable, told the Legal Attache that they “believe the FIA is trying to do the right thing, but predict they will be stopped by other elements in the Pakistani government if they get close to achieving successful prosecutions.”

According to the cable, the Indian officials stressed that Pakistan had shared no information with India and pointed out that not even the FBI had been able to gain access to the detainees in Pakistan.

It noted that the FBI had obtained extensive access to Ajmal Amir Kasab, the surviving 26/11 gunman. “Reported claims by Pakistani officials that Saeed's releasewas due to a lack of cooperation from India will rankle even more in this context.”

The idea of the trilateral meeting appears to have originated in a conversation between National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan and FBI Director Robert Mueller in New Delhi on March 3.

A cable that U.S. Charge d'Affaires Steven White sent on March 4, 2009 ( 195175: secret) on that meeting, detailed that Mr. Narayanan called for “broader, real-time, effective co-operation, to include work between [Indian and U.S.] intelligence agencies” rather than just the existing “good liaison work” between their law-enforcement agencies.

When the FBI chief raised Islamabad's suggestion to conduct a joint investigation with India into the Mumbai attacks with Pakistan, the NSA “dismissed the idea” saying the “timing is not right” given the levels of mutual suspicion.

He sounded off on how the existing Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism between the two countries was meant to be a vehicle for information-sharing but had not yielded tangible results.

NSA suggestion


Mr. Narayanan felt that Pakistan could conduct its own investigation, asserting that if the government was not complicit with the terrorists, it should want to investigate and prosecute those responsible. As India gets “two to three” intercepts a day on possible terrorist activity, the NSA added that the joint investigation the Pakistanis were offering should be “across the board,” and not just in response to Mumbai. In any case, he ruled out sharing the information with Pakistan at that time.

“Rather than joint investigations, Narayanan encouraged the U.S. to continue to play the role of honest broker in the Mumbai investigation. In response to the Director's suggestion that perhaps India and Pakistan could send investigators to Washington to work together, rather than in India, Narayanan said he could consider it,” the cable noted.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Sanku »

putnanja wrote:Satish Sharma aide showed U.S. Embassy employee cash to be used as ‘pay-offs’ in confidence vote

Wasn't Sant Chatwal given padma award last year? For services to the congress party :roll:
And why the need to tell Americans that buy out plans were in place? Clearly it was their own money their hired minions were showing them to explain the sell off was in place.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by saket »

BJP is going to raise the cash for votes in the no-confidence vote in the Parliament.

And the congress-bootlicker NDTV reports it as "BJP going to raise a stink in Parliament."
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

Size of Lok Sabha should be increased. Money will reach greater number of people and cost can be raised 8)
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Raghavendra »

saket wrote:BJP is going to raise the cash for votes in the no-confidence vote in the Parliament.

And the congress-bootlicker NDTV reports it as "BJP going to raise a stink in Parliament."
NDTV keeps licking congress feet, so its natural their mouth stinks.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

Sanku wrote:
putnanja wrote:Satish Sharma aide showed U.S. Embassy employee cash to be used as ‘pay-offs’ in confidence vote

Wasn't Sant Chatwal given padma award last year? For services to the congress party :roll:
And why the need to tell Americans that buy out plans were in place? Clearly it was their own money their hired minions were showing them to explain the sell off was in place.
Going by the various wikileaks reports on South Indian elections, this cash for vote scam etc, it appears that some of these politicians want to brag about their clout to the foreigners, showing off how they do things here. That is the only reason I can think of. Smart politicians keep their mouth shut, but some people want to brag.

Maybe the US expressed concerns about the government going to fall, and this politician instead of just saying "all iz well", decided to spill the beans on the entire operation to assure them that things were under control :mrgreen:
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Sanku wrote:
putnanja wrote:Satish Sharma aide showed U.S. Embassy employee cash to be used as ‘pay-offs’ in confidence vote

Wasn't Sant Chatwal given padma award last year? For services to the congress party :roll:
And why the need to tell Americans that buy out plans were in place? Clearly it was their own money their hired minions were showing them to explain the sell off was in place.
That was to show proof to the Americans that they have put their money where their mouth was as far as the Nuclear deal went. They never foresaw that a certain Bradley Manning would access these cables and release through Assange.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

SSridhar wrote: That was to show proof to the Americans that they have put their money where their mouth was as far as the Nuclear deal went. They never foresaw that a certain Bradley Manning would access these cables and release through Assange.
We have to bring back the likes of Arun S. Nuke Deal support is either deliberately or unknowingly supporting snake oil sale. I am not saying that all are sell-outs. They are like the Acharya-Rakshash (a.k.a Kartikeyan) of Chanakya story with added egoes. Good, very knowledged and unwilling to see the facts. At least now BRF should bring back the best and stop the snakeoil peddling.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by munna »

Muppalla wrote:We have to bring back the likes of Arun S. Nuke Deal support is either deliberately or unknowingly supporting snake oil sale. I am not saying that all are sell-outs. They are like the Acharya-Rakshash (a.k.a Kartikeyan) of Chanakya story with added egoes. Good, very knowledged and unwilling to see the facts. At least now BRF should bring back the best and stop the snakeoil peddling.
At the risk of earning a warning or ban I support this. Enough of this new age peddling of CDS and RMBS equivalent of National Security and Strategy policy, we have to lock the gate and baton down hatches. India cannot afford to experiment on the shoulders of such weak polity and on sale parliament. Otherwise we are headed for a Global Financial Crisis equivalent in the field of national security and sovereignty. Period
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

SSridhar, I see that verbatim MKN says something and the cables have their own editorials! He suggests something and the US side adds to interject themsleves and now these leaks give credence. I wish some one trained in legal analsysi goes thru the cables and sees what Indian side said and what the US sider is reported to have suggested. At superficial level these cables are similar to colonial trading companies factor reports to directors back home. They have biases and stuff that the directors want to hear. And mostly highlevel dilli billi party gossip with classified labels attach to it. Indian anger at TSP perfidy after 26/11 can be seen by just reading the BRF. No need for fancy labels on that.

A big question why would Satish Sharma aide show the cash to a US diplomat? Was the cash from them? Its appears good faith effort to show US that funds are provided are not being siphoned off.

Further at that time, it was the Samajwadi Party with Amar Singh doing the cash for votes deal and INC took a high moral stance. So what are these cables painting a different picture? Amar Singh even went around to US and claimed to have collected funds.
Also recall CNN_IBN or NDTV was suppsoed to record the cash for votes transaction and did something else. Were theses guys also reproting to embassy folks?
And any comments on the huge brouhaha on K.Santhanam's disclosures at that time? If the cables are absent about that aspect then these leaks are bogus and highly selective to influence policy.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Again I don't get why would an Indian politican brief a foregin diplomat about the steps he is taking to subvert a parlimentary vote? Isn't he afraid it will be used to blackmail him later? And why would he show the money? And big question why would a US diplomat from a country with a strong belief in Constitutonal system be talking to a guy who shows him a plan of subverting the his country's Constitituion? He doesn't see the dichotmy? Unless its all part of a plan where they both are in it together.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

The apparent arrangement to leak from "The Hindu" should be the key. A media group which in general appears to have favoured the "Left" and hence the Congress as long as the Left sided with the Congress. But could such favour be part of a bigger game that chooses voices to back as per strategic requirements of external interests? GOI recently has not been playing ball promptly over ME and made a statement with two other aspiring powers over the no-fly zone in Libya connecting the whole thing to solutions about Palestine. So a leak could be appropriate warning.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Vipin_Upadhyay »

there was recent news of Anthony not giving to US pressure on mega defense deal. this cash for support leak could very well be a warning.
so far whole selective leaks and timings all raises serious doubt about wikileak itself.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by RoyG »

Wonder if this is going to sway the mmrca deal in America's favor. GoI needs one giant reboot with a new operating system.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

SSridhar wrote:Currently, somehow I see a lot of animosity against the Congress among The Hindu barons. So, they are taking it out against the Congress first.
Hmmm...CPI(M) and CPM are against DMK led alliance. Could that be a factor?
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

It could be the Hindu is not happy with the 2G and other scams. Gives psecs a bad name.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

It is not TN Left. The Left is fighting its back to wall. It needs a campaign points for WB and Kerala. In addition add the Pranab Da comments ("I cannot accpet this or deny this" ) into mix.
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Rupesh »

f there is something surprising about the WikiLeaks related to India, it is the low esteem in which “responsible” American officials, including their Ambassador plenipotentiary, held some of the key colleagues of the Prime Minister, whom they called “Kerala mafia”. For that, too, the Prime Minister cannot absolve himself of the responsibility. While an equal gets respect, a supplicant is often taken for granted. India was never equal to the US in any respect, save in matters of foreign policy when it was guided solely by its robust national interest. It was never scared of taking a foreign policy decision which was at variance with that of the US. But under Manmohan Singh, the nation lost its distinct identity in international relations. This was the price he paid for a few nuclear reactors, the very mention of which now scares the whole world.
Edit in New Indian Exp.
WikiLeaks exposes PM
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