Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

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sanjeevpunj
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby sanjeevpunj » 29 Nov 2010 19:06

Wiki leaks will directly affect polarisation of nations which has been going on ever since 9/11 but at a slow pace, till now.Catalyst role of wiki-leaks is also enhanced by the fact that Jupiter is moving into Pisces on 5th December 2010, and a lot of things will change globally, altering the world order considerably then onwards. A lot of corrupt people in the world are being exposed and will become targets of "do-it-yourself" jihadists, doesn't matter what religion they represent.
Read more about the Jupiter transit that is impending 5th December, 2010, to get a clear picture of things to come, at this site http://www.astroved.com/planetarytransi ... to-pisces/
I know this is disconnected slightly from wiki-leaks, the topic in question, but I also take wiki-leaks as a bonus offer by Jupiter, for the thinking classes of the world.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 29 Nov 2010 19:09

R-man is correct. In fact according to this WAPO report that is discussed here:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions ... rica-4362/

An estimated 854,000 people, nearly 1.5 times as many people as live in Washington, D.C., hold top-secret security clearances. (3) In Washington and the surrounding area, 33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2001.

854K people with TOP SECRET clearance—I mean it's worse than asking high schoolers to keep it secret. And we we were fretting about the key drive espionage stuff in India a couple of years ago.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 29 Nov 2010 19:09

Raja Ram wrote:amit,

yes it is a possibility that these leaks were being engineered by the USG. But if we look at the extent of information, the time span, the coverage of nations etc., one needs to assign a lesser probability for this possibility.

Why would the time-span reduce the probability of engineered (or controlled) leaks?

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ashokpachori » 29 Nov 2010 19:14

Washington: The explosive WikiLeaks hit hard the Indo-US ties as one of the disclosures revealed that the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called India a ‘self appointed’ UNSC frontrunner and ordered spying of the country’s bid to become a permanent member of the body.



http://www.zeenews.com/news671196.html

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 29 Nov 2010 19:25

so far nothing has come out that was not already commonly known or assumed
if anything, hillary's comments on india are very mild

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 29 Nov 2010 19:30

Cosmo_R wrote:R-man is correct. In fact according to this WAPO report that is discussed here:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions ... rica-4362/

An estimated 854,000 people, nearly 1.5 times as many people as live in Washington, D.C., hold top-secret security clearances. (3) In Washington and the surrounding area, 33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2001.

854K people with TOP SECRET clearance—I mean it's worse than asking high schoolers to keep it secret. And we we were fretting about the key drive espionage stuff in India a couple of years ago.


This is what is called as exaggaration. It is easy to write this kind of news paper articles. There are several level of clearences. If you really apply jobs living in DC then one will get real glimpse of what it involves. In places where you need access to wide veritey of information, you have to go thru polygraph every six months. Even for some jobs (like janitor) that has no classified info requirements they ask for poly based clearences.

Clearence market is itself a multi-billion dollar market.

Now this joker can copy 250,000 diplomatic wires and also some tonnes of Afghan/Iraq war logs and also not yet caught. This is what one calls putting flowers in the ears of public (raw translation from a Telugu proverb). For the wiki leaks folks, to load all the info on the web it is taking several days. He has to copy these obviously not in one go. It is joke that no one caught him even in one instance.

It is simple un-beleivable.

US or India are not big nations for being that lethargic. Even one classified document goes we see arrests in India or in so called "lethargic-over confident-US". The pulp is being generated as articles.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Rangudu » 29 Nov 2010 19:31

A friend of mine who used to be in US Govt tells me that this is all due to the post-9/11 "sharing is necessary" reforms. Apparently, the State Dept is blaming the Pentagon for this mess because the Pentagon did not do a proper job of figuring out what job profiles need what level of compartmental access to diplomatic material.There's going to be major bureaucratic fighting in the coming days.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ashokpachori » 29 Nov 2010 19:53

krishnan wrote:not hacked , DDOS



Is it not the same?


Whistle-blowing website Wikileaks says it is under attack from a computer-hacking operation, ahead of a release of secret US documents.

We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack,” it says on its Twitter feed.



Hacker causes the DDOS....or not?


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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ashokpachori » 29 Nov 2010 19:57

Lalmohan wrote:so far nothing has come out that was not already commonly known or assumed
if anything, hillary's comments on india are very mild



Brace up for more damning stuff then IMO, including (involving) indian defense purchases....

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 29 Nov 2010 20:13



All I will say at this time is :) :rotfl:

We will discuss about the logistics of this leaks in 2025 when things may be out at that time. For now let us see what comes out which can be called as really a wow moment.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 29 Nov 2010 20:16

Rangudu wrote:However, some geniuses thought that there was no harm in letting counter terror related people getting access to all diplomatic material as long as they had the right clearance. In other words, if you have a "Top Secret" clearance for any wing of the government that deals with counter terror, you got access to all "Top Secret" State Dept material.

Apparently, this is what allowed a guy like Manning to be able to download State Dept stuff.


I worked in HSBC for a project. I copied a small code,just a couple of lines, and mailed to my own email address. I was almost fired. It was only because i had good relation with my project manager and HR which saved my ass.
We are talking about US Army,Its very difficult to believe that no one noticed a guy copying those documents in a CD. Even if one "user" accesses a folder/file,there will be history of it. There are system admins who check who accessed the documents and when.
My point is,It cannot be overlooked so easily.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 29 Nov 2010 20:24

Anything interesting in wikileaks that BRite minds have not exposed it indirectly?

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ShivaS » 29 Nov 2010 20:25

Never copy code copy psuedo code

Note the PSU in psuedo

so far. Nothing from the leaks that is ge changing
just teenager girlyman talk

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 29 Nov 2010 20:27

Altair wrote:I worked in HSBC for a project. I copied a small code,just a couple of lines, and mailed to my own email address. I was almost fired. It was only because i had good relation with my project manager and HR which saved my ass.
We are talking about US Army,Its very difficult to believe that no one noticed a guy copying those documents in a CD. Even if one "user" accesses a folder/file,there will be history of it. There are system admins who check who accessed the documents and when.
My point is,It cannot be overlooked so easily.


This is what is called a realistic way of thinking/analyzing as opposed to falling for all the chai-biskoot type articles.

It is not about just Army. For a given system say xxz gun, will have multiple systems at multiple locations with multiple Project leaders and a zillion checks and balances. Copying few stuff for that single system will put anyone in jail.

Now this young joker copied various diplomatic cables (obviously from multiple servers) and also war logs. it got to be a Tom Cruise movie and not US government.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 29 Nov 2010 20:28

^^^Altair. Most companies are very restrictive regarding IT consultants. Not always so with certain types of employees. Here's an ironic example:

"The bank said the trader responsible for the fraud had "in-depth knowledge of the control procedures resulting from this former employment in the middle-office".

"The transactions which involved the fraud were simple - taking a position on shares rising - but hidden using extremely sophisticated and varied techniques," chief executive Daniel Bouton said in a letter to the bank's customers."

And then, in an indescribably funny turn:

"Richard Fuld, the chairman of Lehman Brothers, told BBC News in Davos that "nothing stuns me, nothing really surprises me these days."

8 months later Lehman collapsed and Dick Fuld was indeed surprised.:)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7206270.stm

Just as a sidebar, US state penitentiaries show awesome security. Huge guards festooned with armament and devices that could be mistaken for instruments of medieval torture. Everything is checked--cavities included. All visitors are monitored via CCTV and so on. Yet on the inside, drugs, knives and assorted verboten stuff is routinely available. So how does this all get in? you ask. Well, it's the guards....:)

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2010 20:30

Altair wrote:
Rangudu wrote:However, some geniuses thought that there was no harm in letting counter terror related people getting access to all diplomatic material as long as they had the right clearance. In other words, if you have a "Top Secret" clearance for any wing of the government that deals with counter terror, you got access to all "Top Secret" State Dept material.

Apparently, this is what allowed a guy like Manning to be able to download State Dept stuff.


I worked in HSBC for a project. I copied a small code,just a couple of lines, and mailed to my own email address. I was almost fired. It was only because i had good relation with my project manager and HR which saved my ass.
We are talking about US Army,Its very difficult to believe that no one noticed a guy copying those documents in a CD. Even if one "user" accesses a folder/file,there will be history of it. There are system admins who check who accessed the documents and when.
My point is,It cannot be overlooked so easily.


I have disabled all cdrom/rw and usb access in my office since long as a matter of policy.

People need special permission to access these devices.

Unbelievable as to what the US govt has allowed it's sensitive organisations to do.

And we don't even deal with software or coding!!

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Sudip » 29 Nov 2010 20:50


shiv
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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 29 Nov 2010 21:12

Ho hum. Nothing much will come of this. I'm just hoping that Pakistan gets more sh1t smeared on its pious face.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Nov 2010 21:30

These leaks are to US SD what Abu Graib/GITMO was to US military standing in the world order.
Shows that US SD has the most undiplomatic corps in the world. Talk about hubris. They really see tehmselves as Roman imperators.

So:
- US military reputation gone
- US economy down Dollar on slide.
- US SD prestige down
What else?

BTW its in US that a State governor is convicted of selling the US President elect's Senate Seat! And they talk of mafia states!

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby krishnan » 29 Nov 2010 21:35

Wouldnt the sliding down of $ have mass effect on _one_ other economy?

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 29 Nov 2010 21:43

ramana wrote:So:
- US military reputation gone
- US economy down Dollar on slide.
- US SD prestige down
What else?

ramana,
I know many would disagree with me on this including yourselves but If i understood US and its history since WW2,i would bet US would Nuke a nation(NK or Iran or ???) to scare the whole world who is the boss. They have done it before and it worked for 50 + years. Frankly,Its the only way to reclaim its lost image.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 29 Nov 2010 21:47

Hilary's comment on India going gung ho solo on UNSC membership only confirms and reinforces this perception US India strategic relations are a lot of gas & no substance. I recall skimming through the juicy bits of that spiteful witch Barbara Crosette's rag in which she also makes the same claim, that other than Delhi elites conferring their self importance in world affairs, nobody else gives a rat's ass. If I recall correctly, she was particularly hard on KS. On some big world issue, apparently KS pontificated in an Indian newspaper that so & so resolution at UN will not pass without India's approval. She mocked the delusion.

All these useless boring details aside, I'd like to see if WikiLeaks has any diplomatic chatter on India's complaints of TSP terror against it. I am sure time & again Indians must have sought some pressure on TSP. I would be curious to get an explicit account of the mindsets of Hilary & Co, Colin & Co, Holbrooke & Co etc in this regard.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 29 Nov 2010 21:52

krishnan wrote:Wouldnt the sliding down of $ have mass effect on _one_ other economy?


if the yuan appreciates relative to the dollar then one_other feels a lot of pain, but unkil is happy
if the US gets into severe economic crisis and shuts off consumption and starts to default then the one_other will be in serious trouble as its primary export market is gone (and almost all prosperity is linked to exports) and almost all its reserves are in fed bonds
so... if there is a bubble in fed bonds and the market goes pop... then one_other_taller_and_deeper_friend is going to be in deep doo-doo

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 29 Nov 2010 21:58

Altair:

US won't blink an eye lid should they decide its worth obliterating Iran. I don't need WikiLeaks for this, but the reason why no attack on Iran has been forthcoming is because the Iranian regime is boxed into a corner internally itself. Ahmadinejaad other than bluster will probbaly go the Saddam way sooner or later. And like the Indian middle class, Iran has a middle class that is so enamoured by US and will be dependent on it for FDI, that once this hardline regime is deposed, US will get all its interests met. So, its bascially a wait & watch game with covert ops against the regime. Recall the recent Stuxnet virus attack on Iran's computer networks. Incidentally, does wikileaks have anithing on this virus attack?

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby arjunm » 29 Nov 2010 22:51

Pakistan Guides Afghan Insurgency according to WiKi-New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world ... .html?_r=2

While current and former American officials interviewed could not corroborate individual reports, they said that the portrait of the spy agency’s collaboration with the Afghan insurgency was broadly consistent with other classified intelligence.

Some of the reports describe Pakistani intelligence working alongside Al Qaeda to plan attacks. Experts cautioned that although Pakistan’s militant groups and Al Qaeda work together, directly linking the Pakistani spy agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, with Al Qaeda is difficult.

The records also contain firsthand accounts of American anger at Pakistan’s unwillingness to confront insurgents who launched attacks near Pakistani border posts, moved openly by the truckload across the frontier, and retreated to Pakistani territory for safety.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 29 Nov 2010 22:55

Let me state the obvious:
1. All leaks have reasons.
2. Most of the leaks are planted.

There seems to be at least two streams of thoughts in BRF when it comes to Unkil - and both of them cannot be confirmed. So we will hit upon these thoughts time and time again. But one cannot rule out the possibility of both to different degrees. It is the system that all players play.
1) Unkil the Mickey: Unkil has been compromised. Unkil is not as mighty as people thought. Unkil is fragile.
2) Unkil the Almighty: Unkil orchestrated this tamasha. Unkil has an agenda. What is it - dunno for now.

The consensus among BRFites on the content:
1) Nothing new for now.
2) We knew all this centuries ago.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 29 Nov 2010 23:02

even when the first leaks came out - it was mostly damning for pakistan
this time its pakistan and iran
strikes me that public opinion is being shaped
with some collateral damage along the way amongst poodles and assorted 'friends' for plausible deniability
er... i'm sounding like a CT nut... :)

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Rajdeep » 29 Nov 2010 23:29

could it be really a crusade like scenario? where America has been systematically been replacing the islamic leadership/neutering for all the middle eastern countries? Releasing information and forming public opinion that the nuclear material is not safe, hence justifying a invasion of pakistan in the next 5-7 years. A corrupted government given enough rope to hang itself, make a situation where the peaceful existence of the USA and economic friends like India and Israel being threatened by the pakistani/islamic nuke, so it will be only upto big bro sam to save us all by occupying pakistan like it did in iraq.

too far fetched?

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 29 Nov 2010 23:31

SwamyG:

My claim, at least based on what we know so far is NOT that Unkil is powerless or orchestrated this tamash, but it is that US knows exactly what was leaked, knows its not real potent stuff, but makes a huge song & dance anyway to paint itself as some kind of victim, grave damage caused to it, yada yada, a kind of self righteous posture as way of masking away the real juice, and excessively focusing on the so called "damage" caused by these leaks. No conspiracy or anything of the sort, just plain old information management, PR, and propaganda, and some livel of despair that information that is otherwise not in the open has been leaked out. Sometimes tit-bits of info without real context can cause some damage, be embarassing and time consuming to spin and repair.

LalMohan,

The only real thing damning about TSP would be if something that comes out directly implicating them on their crimes against India. It is then that both Unkil and TSP will run for cover. Nothing else, however damning it might seem otherwise matters to TSPA/ISI or even to US. Not even reports of TSP's collusion with Afghan Taliban. As we have been seeing, Unkil has not lost failth in TSP despite all those "revelations"; billions continue to pour in. For Unkil, TSP's stability is of paramount importance, and for that stability, TSP must be allowed to play harball against India: terror, nukes etc. If gory details of this policy of Unkil is exposed in broad daylight, and US media, at least the ones who have integrity and b@lls focus on it, then that would be damning allegation on the Pentagon/StateDept/CIA/TSPA/ISI combine.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 29 Nov 2010 23:31

pakistani regimes had been unkil friendly until the schism about 5-6 years ago when the leadership started to see that the bulk of the masses had gone against their wishes
unkil has to find other friendly regimes to manage the oil fields

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 29 Nov 2010 23:50

Why should it matter even if H. Clinton supposedly makes a claim about GOI/Indian elite/New Delhi elite having a self-inflated ego about UNSC? I should rather take it as a mark of the self-confidence of GOI/Indian elite that they think that they are worth it! [I am reserving my personal opinion about the importance and necessity of the UNSC permanent seat - but that is unrelated to the context].

Do we really need to feel let down by American opinion if it goes against something that Indian want badly? Do we really need to dance up in joy and feel energized or grateful if American opinion approves something favourably?

It is a matter of calm and cold calculation as to how much that approval or disapproval makes it easier or difficult or what concrete obstacles it puts in the way of our target. Moreover there are lots of things that Americans disapprove of, but which they have to swallow from others. The world really is far too complex and driven by myriad drives, people and agendas for one America to have a finger on it all.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ashokpachori » 30 Nov 2010 00:03

WASHINGTON/NEW DELHI: The first lot of WikiLeaks documents paints a flattering picture of India as a reliable, trusted and respected power in a world that worries itself sick about neighbouring Pakistan.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z16h8vjQUe

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 30 Nov 2010 00:18

something my father said today tickled me.
He said china would be laughing at all this mess it may itself have engineered at the cost of US power

Now recalling the massive chinese cyber hacking and targeting of secret docs, it may well be a possibility.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby ashokpachori » 30 Nov 2010 00:19

6. (C) Pakistan: the UAE has taken a leading role in the Friends of Pakistan initiative and has provided about $800 M in assistance in recent years. The Al Nahyan family had a long-standing relationship with former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, and this has transitioned to support for her husband, Asif Ali Zardari, but the UAE stays in touch with all elements on the Pakistani scene, including Musharraf. MbZ will be very interested in your dialogue with General Kayani.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby krish.pf » 30 Nov 2010 00:21

I wont be surprised if U.S sends(or already sent in case of previous leaks) a few millions(or other favors) to urge Assange not to reveal atleast the most damaging Cables. Which could explain why we are not seeing some really damaging stuff.

The theory that this entire leak is being orchestrated by the U.S for some grand chanakyan move, is bull$hit imo.

Regarding India, it shows perfectly at which level the so called "strategic relationship" is.


btw... nice comment:
"WikiLeaks did not disclosed any new information about Afghan war, but it is treason to disclose what we knew all along.

We knew that we losing the war in Afghanistan even before WikiLeaks said it, but we continue to fund it anyway.

We knew that mercs are killing innocent civilians even before WikiLeaks, but we hire more of them.

We knew that Pakistan is helping Taliban before WikiLeaks, but we decided to send 7 billion dollars extra money to Pakistan.

I wonder if these so called reporters and major media outlets do read their own garbage they produce as news."
Last edited by krish.pf on 30 Nov 2010 00:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 30 Nov 2010 00:29

My feeling is that:
1. The leak is not a one man job. There have to be a group of people with various clearences spread across various departments.
Perhaps one person helped organize everything, perhaps china hacked into some systems, but very low possibility of this being a one man show onlee.

Also possibility of this being fog and mirrors is high.
2. WRT pakistan, we are unlikely to see a smoking gun that will say that the Pakistani ISI planned 9/11 along with Al Qaida. The closest we are going to get is that line 'the ISI plans in parallel with AlQaida' and no more.
3. WRT ISI terrorism against India, we will likely see this said that the ISI was doing it, India was angry, and US interlocuters stressed on the pakis to tone it down (not shut it down). Thus massa come out of this looking quite like the leader managing the two errant brats and troubleshooting childish differences among the poor brown kids.
4. UNSC and India spelled together in the same sentences apparently has the US worried and worked up. I think this is good news, shows that there is indeed some substance to the idea. Hillary ordering surveillence on India's UNSC efforts is MUCH MORE significant than BHO stating that the US supports India at the UNSC.
5. In the end, Pakistan will have some more sh1t on its face, Iran, Ahmedinijad and the Revolutionary guard will come out looking like fools, even unstable. Russia, China will be dissed. And that will be it.
Remember that it is US GI Joe/American James Bond honchos writing all the stuff in the first place.
JMT

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Gagan » 30 Nov 2010 00:35

As far as the US taking out the uranium are concerned, the US DID take out the Enriched Uranium from Pakistan in the end.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 30 Nov 2010 00:49

The objective of the wikileaks seems to be that of building an element of credibility (not THE credibility) but something more than outright garbage. Obviously, an extension to their propaganda strategy.

In that endeavor, the first few "leaks" will be what people want to hear but the real damage (basically the US will have even more leverage on various countries and their politicians) to nations will be in future. Once it established the credibility of Wikileaks (anything more than garbage), US will use it to float any content that it desires at any time and place of its choosing. This is the real capability that WikiLeaks provides to US and its allies.

A willing enterprenuer with resources (of different kinds) has a ready made business case/model to field a competitor - essentially a counter strategy. I am sure there will be a lot of contacts and money to be made before/during/after any expose from future Wikileaks.

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Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Postby arjunm » 30 Nov 2010 00:51

What about based on this leaks the family of the US army men those who lost their lives in the Afghan insurgency should sue the US government for knowingly arming rouge state Pakistan, those arms are used against India and killing thier own soldiers. All these families should file a class cation Law suit against the government for killing and endangering innocent US and Indian lives.


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