Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 17 Dec 2010 13:44

Remember, Strobe Talbott was also very worried about Hindu extremism.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 14:00

arjunm wrote:
SNIP.........

Another Kangressi Gl.Secretary Janardan Diwedi smells Conspiracy against Rahul

"Let us verify the truth. May be there is some conspiracy behind the pattern with which this all is being done," party general secretary Janardan Diwedi said when asked about his reaction to the WikiLeaks release.

: WikiLeaks cable: Congress suspects conspiracy, BJP slams Rahul Gandhi - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... z18MB2KmNs

Poor fellow, his brain is overheating.

Should I cut Rahul Baba some slack. If members approve will do. Its too much fun attacking him.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 17 Dec 2010 14:00

Obamas not being invited to the prince Williams wedding. Anything to do with wikileaks?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 14:02

Why should they invited to the royal wedding. TO show that they are the new rulers and the UQ the ruled.

Hain Ji

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 17 Dec 2010 14:11

Did you folks see this?
http://in.news.yahoo.com/wikileaks-indi ... 9-888.html

London, Dec 17 (IANS) US diplomats were concerned that India could be the target of a biological terror attack, with fatal diseases such as anthrax being released into the country before spreading around the world, according to diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks.
The confidential cables revealed that a senior Indian diplomat told the US in 2006 that concerns about biological weapons were 'no longer academic', adding that intelligence suggested terror groups were increasingly discussing biowarfare, the Guardian reported Friday.
'(Diplomat Y. K.) Singh reported that Indian intelligence is picking up chatter indicating jehadi groups are interested in bioterrorism, for example seeking out like-minded PhDs in biology and biotechnology,' a cable from the US embassy in New Delhi sent to Washington said.

The cable focused particularly on the lack of preparedness of Indian authorities for such an attack, assessing Indian government assurances that the country could defend itself against bioterrorism to be 'unconvincing'.
Scientists attached to the US embassy had been shown photographs taken by a senior Indian army officer from 'frontline field laboratories for diagnostics of infectious diseases' which 'demonstrated a host of poor laboratory security and safety practices, including families sleeping in labs and disposable gloves being washed for re-use or being disposed of as non-hazardous biological waste', the cable reported.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2010 14:14

kangressi spokesman abhisek manu singhvi is a super well paid lawyer it seems. an article in india today had bios of a few of them. the general trend was
3.5L for each DAY in court
25L for a full DAY package
most drive bentleys, collect art and have second homes in goa
all are based in mumbai or delhi
even the old ram jethmalani who is 87 yrs old and still practising law, at above rates. he has reportedly made a indoor badminton court at home that 'is the envy of lutyens delhi'

and I thought i-bankers were well compensated. these guys make them look like upstart newbies at the 'great game'

read and enjoy.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... awabs.html

a tidbit:
With wealth come perks. In 1992, Karanjawala and Desai were chatting in the Supreme Court car park when former law minister Ashoke Sen zipped by in his Fiat. "What Ashoke, small car?" asked Desai to which Sen replied, "In Bangla we have a saying: known Brahmins need not wear the sacred thread."

Now the car park is filled with Bentleys, Mercedes and at the very least, an upmarket Toyota. The symbols of success include a holiday home in Goa, Souzas on the office walls, shopping expeditions to Bond Street (where they can expect to bump into other lawyers).

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Dec 2010 14:15

Jan 28, 2010
Holbrooke, Nirupama Rao discuss Af-Pak
http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=10NEWDELHI163

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 14:18

Rahul stands by his comments on Hindu terror

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rahul-stands ... ml?from=tn

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 14:22

krishnan wrote:Obamas not being invited to the prince Williams wedding. Anything to do with wikileaks?

Obama was also not invited in Chelsea Clinton's wedding.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 17 Dec 2010 14:25

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 116621.cms

WikiLeaks cable: Congress suspects conspiracy, BJP slams Rahul Gandhi

PTI, Dec 17, 2010, 12.54pm IST

Congress on Friday suspected a conspiracy behind the release of the WikiLeaks cable which says Rahul Gandhi had told US ambassador Timothy Roemer that growth of "radicalised Hindu groups" could pose a bigger threat to India than activities of groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba.

"Let us verify the truth. May be there is some conspiracy behind the pattern with which this all is being done," party general secretary Janardan Diwedi said when asked about his reaction to the WikiLeaks release.

According to a secret US diplomatic cable from New Delhi released by WikiLeaks, at a luncheon hosted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at his residence in July 2009, the Congress general secretary was asked by the US ambassador about LeT's activities in the region and immediate threat to India.

"Gandhi said there was evidence of some support for the group among certain elements in India's indigenous Muslim community," the cable notes.

"However, Gandhi warned, the bigger threat may be the growth of radicalised Hindu groups, which create religious tensions and political confrontations with the Muslim community," it says.

Meanwhile the BJP condemned Rahul Gandhi's remarks and said "in one stroke", he has given a "big leverage" to the propaganda of all terror groups in Pakistan.

Strongly objecting to the remarks made to US ambassador Timothy Roemer, as claimed by a WikiLeaks cable, BJP spokesperson Ravishankar Prasad said, "It is irresponsible. It is in the public domain and the US government has neither denied nor confirmed it. Therefore, it has sanctity."

"In one stroke, Rahul Gandhi has sought to give a big leverage to the propaganda of all terror groups operating from Pakistan and certain segments of the Pakistan establishment," he told reporters here.

Prasad said such remarks impinge upon India's strategic security and fight against terrorism.

"If he sees a fringe radical Hindu group as the biggest threat in spite of so many terrorist attacks including 26/11 in which involvement of Pakistani groups is confirmed, then it only underscores how ignorant he is about India and its problems," the BJP leader said.

The party also attacked him for making such remarks to a foreign diplomat and not before Parliament and said the opposition would take up the issue in next Parliament session and also before the people.

Prasad said the statement "underscores how little Rahul Gandhi knows about India. The PM has publicly acknowledged that Maoism and terrorist threat from across the border are the biggest challenges before India and Rahul Gandhi says certain lunatic, marginalised Hindu radical groups are the biggest threat?"

Senior opposition leader Prakash Javadekar said the statement shows "crass communalism and jaundiced world view".

I wonder what conspiracy congress is suspecting? Its a conspiracy that Yuvraj kumar is a dud, who should not be allowed to speak out in public without a minder near him? Perhaps the conspiracy is that Amrikhans distracted his minders with a well placed "Tammie Sue", leading to this disaster.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 14:32

“Narendra Modi poster boy of anti-Muslim Hindu nationalist ideology”
By Japan K Pathak
Ahmedabad, 17 December, 2010

This Wikileaks cable of year 2007(from American ambassador in India to the U.S. department of state) is interesting. Though the Gujarat part of this cable is mostly in reference to Gujarat’s 2007 assembly election, the important and interesting part is that the cable shows how America looked at Gujarat, Gujarat Congress, and Narendra Modi. Another interesting observation is that the United States was closely monitoring Gujarat assembly election in 2007.

How America looked at Gujarat in 2007

-Gujarat election result are crucial to whether Congress Party moves forward with the nuclear agreement.
-Gujarat is a large state, with 26 seats in Parliament.
-Gujarat is a prosperous state which is leading the Indian economic resurgence.
-Gujarat is one of the most “saffron” states in the country.
-Narendra Modi is the poster boy of anti-Muslim Hindu nationalist ideology.
-The Gujarat unit of the Congress Party is weak and poorly organized.
-It is because of the importance the Congress Party attaches to Gujarat that it is bringing in its top leaders to campaign in the state.
-Gujarat Elections Holds the Key

Complete text of the Gujarat part of the leaked cable

Tuesday, 06 November 2007, 13:18
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 NEW DELHI 004881
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
EO 12958 DECL: 11/05/2017
TAGS PREL, PARM, TSPL, KNNP, ETTC, ENRG, TRGY, IN
SUBJECT: PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE, GUJARAT ELECTIONS KEY TO GOI
APPROACH ON US-INDIA NUCLEAR DEAL
REF: A. NEW DELHI 4857 B. NEW DELHI 4842 C. NEW DELHI 4835 D. NEW DELHI 4823 E. NEW DELHI 4803 F. NEW DELHI 4764 G. NEW DELHI 4763 H. MUMBAI 604 I. NEW DELHI 4720 J. NEW DELHI 4638 K. NEW DELHI 4616 L. NEW DELHI 4589
Classified By: Ted Osius for Reasons 1.4 (B and D)

Gujarat Elections Holds the Key(title of the Gujarat part of the cable)

——————————-

9. (C) Embassy agrees with many observers who believe that if the Parliamentary debate is a draw, the Gujarat election result in December are crucial to whether Congress Party moves forward with the nuclear agreement. Gujarat is a large state, with 26 seats in Parliament. It is a prosperous state which is leading the Indian economic resurgence. It is also one of the most “saffron” states in the country. The BJP has won the last five state assembly elections. It crushed the Congress in 2002 in a lop-sided win in the aftermath of the 2002 riots. By most accounts, Narendra Modi, the poster boy of anti-Muslim Hindu nationalist ideology, has an edge to retain his Chief Minister position for a third straight time (Ref C and H). The state unit of the Congress Party is weak and poorly organized.

10. (C) If the Congress Party can put in a healthy performance to make a dent in this BJP bastion, observers believe the Congress Party will feel politically strong to risk (or even call) a mid-term national poll. In this case, the Prime Minister and the Congress Party would challenge the Left parties by moving forward with the IAEA on the safeguards agreement. It is because of the importance the Congress Party attaches to Gujarat that it is bringing in its top leaders to campaign in the state. Sonia Gandhi launched the campaign over the weekend in Anand, Gujarat. Rahul Gandhi is expected to campaign in the state. If, on the other hand, the Congress Party is trampled again in Gujarat and fails to improve on its 48 seats (out of 182 total seats in the assembly), it will feel vulnerable and will not be tempted to risk early elections. It will then require extraordinary political courage for the UPA to carry out the IAEA talks, which place its full term in office in jeopardy.

http://deshgujarat.com/2010/12/17/naren ... -ideology/

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 17 Dec 2010 15:02

Personally, i don't get all this fuss about latest statement from Rahul. Isn't he just repeating the old wisdom of Chacha ji that majority communalism is more dangerous than minority Communalism?

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 15:31

amit wrote:
arjunm wrote:Rahul Gandhi's Saffron threat-

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O8dgmi58k-Y/S ... 00/veronic
Don't you think that's a bit below the belt? That picture is from a time before he had entered politics and at that point of time there was no much talk of him doing so. In fact his sister seemed to be the candidate of choice then.

Below the belt ? What is wrong in that Photo? It shows how humble he looks when there is no "saffron terror" around, and about his political career, has anything changed ?

amit · Post by **amit** » 17 Dec 2010 15:42

arjunm wrote:Below the belt ? What is wrong in that Photo? It shows how humble he looks when there is no "saffron terror" around, and about his political career, has anything changed ?

I hope you realize that your just trivializing the entire discussion which is a very serious one.

If Rahul Gandhi sitting at a cricket match many years ago with his Colombian (ex) girl friend wearing hot pants is the best you can pull up to criticize him for what he said about "Hindu terror" being greater threat than LeT then I'm afraid you either don't understand the import of what he said or you don't think the issue is important enough to discuss seriously.

Eitherway it's pointless talking to you on this. You are just adding to the noise level here.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 15:50

Baba clarifies says he is against all forms of terror

Meanwhile BJP hits back Saying

Rahul dividing India, speaking for Pakistan, says BJP

Posting in full as is full of quotable quotes

Reacting to Rahul Gandhi's conversation with US ambassador Timothy Roemer that home-grown Hindu extremist groups are bigger threat to India than Muslim militants, BJP spokesman Tarun Vijay on Friday said that Rahul is "dividing India again on communal lines". "He and Digvijay Singh are speaking the language of Pakistan and Kasab and helping Lashkar-e-Taiba. What Rahul is doing is going to make Pakistan happier," he told CNN-IBN.

"If he thinks if he speaks against Hindus Muslims will vote in UP it is most unfortunate for the country in future."

"I must say Rahul is trying to help Kasab to win votes in Uttar Pradesh and this should be properly replied."

"This is a strategy that Congress is using since independence by dividing Hindus and Muslims and creating a phobia of Hindu organisations before the Muslims to make them feel that Congress is the only ones who can help them," he added.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 17 Dec 2010 16:15

amit wrote:
arjunm wrote:Below the belt ? What is wrong in that Photo? It shows how humble he looks when there is no "saffron terror" around, and about his political career, has anything changed ?

I hope you realize that your just trivializing the entire discussion which is a very serious one.

If Rahul Gandhi sitting at a cricket match many years ago with his Colombian (ex) girl friend wearing hot pants is the best you can pull up to criticize him for what he said about "Hindu terror" being greater threat than LeT then I'm afraid you either don't understand the import of what he said or you don't think the issue is important enough to discuss seriously.

Eitherway it's pointless talking to you on this. You are just adding to the noise level here.

I can pull many things on this guy but let's not start another useless diversion on him whose reckless comment is a "pointer" here, and that is also to a foreign ambassador. about a "community"as prospected future terror threat greater than LET, deserve no better than this.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Dec 2010 16:33

Why not take it to the OT thread and see exactly whats on Rahul Baba.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 17 Dec 2010 16:50

Rahul and such episodes have two spins
1) Diverting people's attention from the real issues regarding corruption, bekaar administration of dhongi congi etc.
2) Garner left-over fundamentalist votes in upcoming elections. (ye congi dhongi log kabhi nahi sudharenge).

Also not to allow other guys to come up ever from the present level of spokesmanship. diggi now can not be minister etc he knows well. manish tewari though may be a good spokoesperson from dhongi point of view, will never rise.

Folks
Always remember, modi, muslims and malegaon are only remembered when elections are nearby. congress has now lost hope of winning many elections it seems. once the elections are gone they will be gala-doob in creating new versions of scams.

Cong-dhongi and muslims have shamma-parvana relationship. congress is burning itself as they see the shining muslim vote-bank but muslims are showing a big thenga to congi dhongi.

Wait for a couple of months there will be no malegaon, modi and muslims unless an election is approaching.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2010 16:55

amit wrote: ..... what he said about "Hindu terror" being greater threat than LeT then I'm afraid you either don't understand the import of what he said or you don't think the issue is important enough to discuss seriously.

What are your views of the import of what Raul said?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2010 17:01

Murugan wrote:Rahul and such episodes have two spins
1) Diverting people's attention from the real issues regarding corruption, bekaar administration of dhongi congi etc.
2) Garner left-over fundamentalist votes in upcoming elections. (ye congi dhongi log kabhi nahi sudharenge).

Also not to allow other guys to come up ever from the present level of spokesmanship. diggi now can not be minister etc he knows well. manish tewari though may be a good spokoesperson from dhongi point of view, will never rise.

Folks
Always remember, modi, muslims and malegaon are only remembered when elections are nearby. congress has now lost hope of winning many elections it seems. once the elections are gone they will be gala-doob in creating new versions of scams.

Cong-dhongi and muslims have shamma-parvana relationship. congress is burning itself as they see the shining muslim vote-bank but muslims are showing a big thenga to congi dhongi.

Wait for a couple of months there will be no malegaon, modi and muslims unless an election is approaching.

Explanation does not work. This was a wikileak of Rahul where he made his statement during a dinner with the US ambassador. Obviously this has nothing to do with votes. Lets not delude ourselves - this is a deep-seated neurosis about Hindus that has been revealed, on the part of Rahul and possibly Sonia as well.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Dec 2010 18:15

Let's assume for the sake of argument,that RG is right and that there is a threat from the so-called "Hindu Right".Now,both most senior Congress and BJP leaders in recent times have reiterated that "terrorists have no religious identity",even though they might try and justify their acts accoring to their religion.Therefore there are no "Hindu terrorists" or Muslim terrorists",just plain and simple "terrorists".
Rahul G is therefore going against the grain here.But why has he made this statement?Let's examine a poss. reason.

The big Q is why have these (alleged by the H-Right) acts of terror appeared? Terrorism is a symptom of the disease not the disease itself.Paki terror has swamped India because pakistan as many expert analysts have pointed out,CANNOT capture Kashmir through military force! This is why for two+ decades,Pakistan has been manipulating religious extremists in its land,orchestrated through the Paki army/ISI,to wage a proxy terror war against India using religion (Islam) as a motivating factor for the terrorists.Funding for these terror groups have come from the Saudis,the Chinese and the CIA.If at all there has been a backlash from certain "right-wing" Indian entities ,it is because the Indian state/GOI has failed the nation in protecting its citizens.The growth of the so-called "Indian Mujahideen",SIMI,etc.,(whose funding mainly comes from abroad Pakis/Saudis) has taken place because the GOI has allowed it to grow unchecked,turning a blind eye to these treasonable activities for the sake of vote-bank politics.
Rahul G knows this very well ,and his statement actually reflects his unique front-seat/grandstand perspective of the issue and the abdication of the current GOI in protecting the nation from Paki sponsored terror and its inability to check its growth.When he talks of the "threat",this threat is actually subconciously to him a threat to "himself",because of the Sonia/MMS regime's failure in containing and defeating Islamist terror! Scared that the nation holds his family and his party responsible-and rightly so,he has uttered these words.As the famous saying goes,"the guilty flee when no man pursueth"!

amit · Post by **amit** » 17 Dec 2010 19:01

Arjun wrote:
amit wrote: ..... what he said about "Hindu terror" being greater threat than LeT then I'm afraid you either don't understand the import of what he said or you don't think the issue is important enough to discuss seriously.
What are your views of the import of what Raul said?

My view is whatever the importance or otherwise of what he said, it has not bearing on that old photograph of him watching a cricket match with is former Colombian girl friend. And more so when there seems to be an attempt to link the photo to his comment on saffron terror. Is that so difficult to understand?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2010 19:30

amit wrote:My view is whatever the importance or otherwise of what he said, it has not bearing on that old photograph of him watching a cricket match with is former Colombian girl friend. And more so when there seems to be an attempt to link the photo to his comment on saffron terror. Is that so difficult to understand?

That's not difficult to understand.

But my question was different. I wanted your take on Doggy Raja and Rahul's foot-in-mouth statements.....I wanted to know if you found those to be 'below the belt' and objectionable as well, or only the picture that you brought up in double-quick time.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Dec 2010 20:34

RG should be made the PM as quickly as possible. The quicker the better. He will be forced to open his mouth and in public frequently. What a great gift for India's future. The more he speaks and opens his mouth, the quicker it becomes clearer to the people of India - as to which side the regime really stands.

Of course there are large interested groups which will go on shouting his name, but we will see the pattern of loud voices increasingly getting confined to certain large metropolises - with deep entrenched business and crime networks.

We should encourage the Congress to bring him on as PM as much as possible. This is a heaven-sent.

As to the American diplomat's gullibility - that also should not come as a surprise. Look at the exquisite short-sightedness and self-delusions that have characterized American foreign policy - only explicable if we accept that ambitious elite Americans are deeply inherently prejudiced on racial, religious and imperialist biases. They tried to destroy Vietnam and fled, oiled up Mao and now face China and North Korea, helped to remove the Shah and supplied Khomeini with resources in order to thrash Nicaragua and now face Ahmedinijad, greatest achievement - supported Pakistan, helped AQ and Talebs and now face Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Dec 2010 20:46

brihaspati wrote:RG should be made the PM as quickly as possible. The quicker the better. He will be forced to open his mouth and in public frequently. What a great gift for India's future. The more he speaks and opens his mouth, the quicker it becomes clearer to the people of India - as to which side the regime really stands.

Aaap ka muh mae ghee shakkar. I am desperate to see Rahul G as PM as opposed to this power without responsibility. Rule without masks is better than the current several masks.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Dec 2010 20:48

one consistent theme coming out of wikileaks is a stubborn doggedness of GOI on core interests
(stands back with fire retardant suit on...)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 20:50

abhishek_sharma wrote:Remember, Strobe Talbott was also very worried about Hindu extremism.

However Strobe Talbott is a US citizen and not discussing it with Indina ambassodor in DC. Please don't bring irrelevant examples unless you think in terms of World citizen psy-ops.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 20:57

Mauli wrote:Personally, i don't get all this fuss about latest statement from Rahul. Isn't he just repeating the old wisdom of Chacha ji that majority communalism is more dangerous than minority Communalism?

1) Please go thru the slideshare presentation linked in this post to get why he is talking to US about Indian local issues.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 92#p995792

2) BTW, thanks for the deshgujarat link on Modi wikipees. What comes out is that US blocking his visa is a delibrate attempt to get involved in local Indian politics by chosing sides. The visa action was to help bolster INC prospects. see the line about Pralimentary debate and 26 Lok Sabha seats from Gujarat!

Any "mai ka lal" Indian Political scientist can do a political analysis of US perception of internal India as shown by these cables.

3) India already faced a bio-terror attack in Surat in 1993 wehn there was the plague attack. The DRDO labs confirmed the plague bacteria molecular structure was augmented with heavy weight elements to make it more contagious by cough not flea bites. Most likely the stuff was got from labs in collapsed FSU and used by TSP. Dr. Kalam never made the report public but did not deny the news reports.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Dec 2010 21:00

Now that leaks concerning India are out....we should remember Thiruvalluvar's words.
Kural 588
Before believing one spy's espionage,
have another spy espy the information.

Kural 589
See that informants do not know one another,
and accept their findings only when three reports agree.

I expect BRFites to treat all these leaks with a pinch of salt and cynicism. Unkil and others could be using these as part of their psy-ops and to their advantage.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Dec 2010 21:11

ramana wrote:
Mauli wrote:Personally, i don't get all this fuss about latest statement from Rahul. Isn't he just repeating the old wisdom of Chacha ji that majority communalism is more dangerous than minority Communalism?

1) Please go thru the slideshare presentation linked in this post to get why he is talking to US about Indian local issues.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 92#p995792

2) BTW, thanks for the deshgujarat link on Modi wikipees. What comes out is that US blocking his visa is a delibrate attempt to get involved in local Indian politics by chosing sides. The visa action was to help bolster INC prospects. see the line about Pralimentary debate and 26 Lok Sabha seats from Gujarat!

Any "mai ka lal" Indian Political scientist can do a political analysis of US perception of internal India as shown by these cables. {expand this to social engineering and various small parties that sprungup in the last election. Why US ambassodor met Chiranjeevi of all in AP. Why is there an US consulate in HYD instead of IT capital Bangalore?}
3) India already faced a bio-terror attack in Surat in 1993 wehn there was the plague attack. The DRDO labs confirmed the plague bacteria molecular structure was augmented with heavy weight elements to make it more contagious by cough not flea bites. Most likely the stuff was got from labs in collapsed FSU and used by TSP. Dr. Kalam never made the report public but did not deny the news reports.

These have to be like stickies in the minds of all Indians (at least BRFites) and these are axioms of new calculations. If we don't get these we won't get anything else.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2010 21:13

SwamyG wrote:Now that leaks concerning India are out....we should remember Thiruvalluvar's words.
Kural 588
Before believing one spy's espionage,
have another spy espy the information.

Kural 589
See that informants do not know one another,
and accept their findings only when three reports agree.

I expect BRFites to treat all these leaks with a pinch of salt and cynicism. Unkil and others could be using these as part of their psy-ops and to their advantage.

Lets take India alone...that means Rahul, MKN and several others need to be in on the whole charade otherwise they would deny the quotes attributed to them. Multiply this by what is required for all the various countries mentioned in the leaks....& the fact that if any of these folks in the future expose the charade, the US will be in deep shit. Considering these factors, the CT theory seems to be pretty far-fetched.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 21:21

Arjun, What ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Dec 2010 21:26

Well, wikileaks does takes some respect cause even the solo super power is fr'ing going crazy over the reports. They are damn scared of the outcome even before anyone could read them. Somebody taking lightly the wikileaks information, then it has to be one or a country who has low morale or have lowest ethics.

Let it be wrong or right, we know about our politicians and how much faith we can have on them to tell the truth. I am sorry, this is becoming worse that a political leader can't trust his country men and their main culture.

Why is Rahul not concentrating on his drug lord girl friend in columbia? Things would have been so good for k-angrezies. Again, there is a leadership black holes and worm holes with this party. Not that BJP is any mr. clean party, but relative evil should matter to all in general.

The hatred towards hindusim lies within every one in some form to accept such leaders and parties.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Dec 2010 21:26

Arjun:
What is the easiest way to feed lies or poison? Mix it with truth or food, right? Apply the 80/20 or its variation 90/10 rule. If somebody wanted to feed say 10 lies, then the best way is to mix it with 90 truths.
Rahul's views on "hindu terror" is really not a big sensation; did we not know that already? Has he not said, implied or behaved in such a manner? Fake data (or cables) can be induced or fed into the system different layers. Do not rule out any possibility.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Dec 2010 21:30

I disagree here little bit. If it is not wikileaks, we would be sitting in chalta hai attitude for ever, and don't care what he says. It may be the 10 lies, with 90 truth but for the 10 lies (again you are just hypothesizing), there exists truth value here.

You are finding reasons not to react and create a big issue out this. I say, make a big issue of this, and make him realize he can't say such things.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 21:32

SwamyG wrote:Now that leaks concerning India are out....we should remember Thiruvalluvar's words.

Kural 589
See that informants do not know one another,
and accept their findings only when three reports agree.

....

Wow the ref to "three reports" is awesome.

Von Mises said if one can afford to take one extra sample, then it is going from two samples to three, as the amount of information/probabiility increase is the largest for a single increase in sample.

Hats off to Thiruvalluvar for articulating math wisdom as folk wisdom centuries before it was formulated.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 21:38

Nihat, its a case of telling their* Western interlocutors "after me the deluge" in other words support us of the "bad" Hindus will take over.

* Taking the totality of the picture presented by the leaks, the INC and the GOI stalwarts like Rahul Gandhi and MK Narayanan both on different occassion harped on the Hindu terror to the US.

And the desh gujarat link shows that US indircetly tried to help them by denying the visa to Modi and thus became a particiapnt in the politicial process.

Before cable leak they could clai to be doing it based on morla and human rights prinicples. However the cable shows that they were concerned about Lok Sabha elections and took active steps by denying the visa.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 17 Dec 2010 21:45

deleted by moderator

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Dec 2010 21:57

SaiK wrote:You are finding reasons not to react and create a big issue out this. I say, make a big issue of this, and make him realize he can't say such things.

The BIGGEST mistake you are doing is thinking or connecting my words of caution to the leak pertaining to Rahul. My post had nothing to do with him or leak pertaining to him in particular, because to me, personally, that is almost like one of the truths we knew. As I said he has acted and quacked like a duck for a long time. So he is a duck. My quoting the kurals was for the rest of the information that is (and will) pouring out.

INC using caste/religion to win elections is NOT A BIG NEWS to any discerning Indian. INC or any other leader selling out the country is more sensational and dangerous. The connections with foreign media, government and corporations can be beneficial and/or sinister.

For us Rahul is a big fish, but for others he is a small fish. The BIG fish that all try to catch is the INDIAN POPULATION. That is why people like Modi or Nitish are dangerous to those folks who want to build a grand narrative to sell it to the Indian population. Modis and Nitishs and scores of others are like bones in the kabab.

What Rahul said is not as important as "why he said it" and "to whom he said it". Like I said, we know he is a duck and he is going to quack whenever possible. Pointing to Hindu or Saffron aathankvaadis to the Indian public is no big deal....it is appeasing techniques. If the leaks are true, then why and whom become the important, the what is secondary - only because we already knew that. It is like we knew the langot is clean; yet he chooses to wash the langot in the public street.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2010 22:18

OK no more blue on blue. And folks try to convey thoughts in clear language. And others, no one is more holy than the others. Reduces suelss chatter and bandwidth.

Meanwhile google cache of Delhi Police infiltrated by a mole

Isn't Delhi Police run by Home Ministry?

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As you already know Delhi Police Special cell is really IB(Per MK Dhar's book) and what this means is uncle is interested in knowing who the IB is going after. In other words did they(IB) find out about David Headley types?

Also I find it very interesting the insistence that India should share info with US when US is neck deep in terrorist plots with ISI(David Headley). Most plots on US are from TSP and not one to date from India. Further most of the info the US give to India in return is useless or vague. Recall they gave a general coordinate in Arabian sea and the Indian Navy was chasing phantom boats there whiel the real terrorists came by a small craft.