Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

The Wikileaks sharing of supposed comments between RG and the US diplomat should point to the following core severe logical problems:

(1) If RG clubs "Hindu terror" as the greatest threat and the US diplomat thinks it is important enough and realistic enough to pass on as info back to his bosses [this angle in admin is not trivial. An info becomes important if the provider is say seen as an opinion maker, or a good reader of politically determining public opinion, etc. A good diplomat or a spy also has to filter and assess the reliability or representativeness or actionability of what he is sending back to his bosses] - then it implies a convergence of US ears/eyes objectives/thoughts/desires/conclusions with that of political leadership.

If US relies or gives such importance to utterances by one leader on a subject on which US has sufficient handle to gather independent information, then we have to wonder as to what information does the US really base its foreign policy decisions on? Is it also based on perceptions of individuals like RG? In that case the US can not only make blunders that go against Indian interests but also against US interests in the long run!

There are enough historical indicators that US does not rely on independent assessment of popular feelings or tries to understand the real cultural/civilizational/ideological processes in a foreign country. It listens to individuals who toady up to US interests apparently, and almost inevitably such toadies turn out to be incredibly corrupt - in power or monetary sense. Over the long run it makes only for increasing hatred and ultimate rejection of "America" from that populace.

If US listens to or gives RG such importance - it will one day lose India.

(2) Apparently the US or RG and his party officially claim that there is no Islamic terror but only fringe groups who misinterpret a peaceful and nonviolent theology. An added Marxist vulgar economism that even out and out capitalists seem to subscribe to is that any "terrorist" activity is a result of past trauma at the hands of others and lack of development and repressive exploitation.

If that is true - then any supposed Hindu terror must be the product of past trauma, repression and lack of development. It is a terrible horns of dilemma. If the apologetics for terror do not extend to Hindus - and tries to prove that terror is not dependent on such trivia as memories of trauma/lack of development and could be sourced in a belief-system then why should not similar arguments be applied to Islam?

If the apologetics used to whitewash Islam extends to supposed "Hindu terror" then there comes the question as to what past records of trauma the Hindus are reacting to? what repressions they are fighting against? If it is claimed that Hindus do so based on false or invented memories, why is a similar questioning of falsity or invention of memories in the muslim not undertaken?

(3) If RG really makes such remarks - he is binding himself in a spot. Of course his meetings or question hours will be closely stage-managed so he will never really face an intelligent questioner.

But here is the fundamental problem : if it is "Hindu terror" which has provoked barbaric atrocities by Islamic groups in India always - then what "Hindu terror" did his Congress ancestor - JLN and his party which was the sole representative of all Indians on the eve of the partition according to Congress claims and therefore included majority of Hindus - perpetrate on the then Muslims of India for the rapine and massacres of the partition undertaken by the ML? Which Hindu terror provoked the rape and massacre of Kashmiri non-Muslims at the hands of Kashmiri muslim in 1989 - three years before the disputed structure incident at Ayodhya?

(4) He is clearly saying as per the reported comment that he is not a "Hindu", for those raising doubts on this - for otherwise he becomes a member of terror himself. He has classified "Hindu" with "terror" and has not specifically made the distinction between belief and terror.
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

ramana wrote:OK no more blue on blue. And folks try to convey thoughts in clear language. And others, no one is more holy than the others. Reduces suelss chatter and bandwidth.

Meanwhile google cache of Delhi Police infiltrated by a mole


Isn't Delhi Police run by Home Ministry?
ramana ji,
sometime ago we discussed about a mole close to IG in the '71 days, who supplied info to the Americans on a meeting by meeting basis. You should expect similar informants at almost all levels. It is a long tradition from the Brit period. AIWCC closed door meetings and discussions were reported verbatim in a 1943 white paper published by the then British gov of India.

Why should it be surprising if similar moles work and report even now? I always had a feeling that MKG stayed from Delhi and Congress and spent more time at his ashram after the 20's to keep moles away from himself and keep his own intelligence on who were moving around him.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16267
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

From Bharat Rakshak perspective, we should be concerned if a leader is a well wisher of the country or not. His or her in-actions and actions should be studied. His or her religion should be in focus only if that is used to harm the country.
Mauli
BRFite
Posts: 371
Joined: 12 Jul 2010 21:08

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Mauli »

WikiLeaks: Chidambaram pleaded with US to be seen as having access to David Headley

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_wi ... ey_1482479
Mauli
BRFite
Posts: 371
Joined: 12 Jul 2010 21:08

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Mauli »

Wikileaks cable on Rahul may mar Congress gala

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/wiki ... 101217.htm
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

Mauli wrote:Wikileaks cable on Rahul may mar Congress gala

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/wiki ... 101217.htm
Vinod Sharma's comments are even more fantastic - in defense of RG's supposed statements - he thinks there will be civil war only when "Hindu terror" happens. So there will be no civil war - that is no opposition if terrors are continued by non-Hindus?

Oh, why , why dont they talk more often! it would be such great fun!
surinder
BRFite
Posts: 1464
Joined: 08 Apr 2005 06:57
Location: Badal Ki Chaaon Mein

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by surinder »

deleted by moderator
Last edited by archan on 18 Dec 2010 00:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please see your last post above. And desist.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Mauli wrote:Wikileaks cable on Rahul may mar Congress gala

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/wiki ... 101217.htm

Halfway through the artcle I thought looks like Sheela Bhatt's drivel and lo and behold it was! Note how many times she takes a Paki stance of "if the cables are real"!
Mauli
BRFite
Posts: 371
Joined: 12 Jul 2010 21:08

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Mauli »

Meanwhile Dynasty is back to time tested (when it comes to pulling the wool over Hindus) Mantra of "Ishwar-llah tero NAam"
After Wikileaks blushes, Cong to strike middle path on terror

http://www.hindustantimes.com/After-Wik ... 39674.aspx
So from 2+2 =4.5 (in the days of Mahatma of Truth &...) congress moved to its natural state i.e 2+2=5 (Under Rajmata & Yuvraaj). But looks like, time is not ripe hence back to 2+2=4.5.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16267
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

Don’t confuse, Rahul Gandhi is no “Bacha”
Sorry the essay is very good, imo, so posting in full, with all emphasis and numbering being mine.
The latest Wikileaks expose on Rahul Gandhi’s conversations with US envoy have come as a shocker for many. Here the ‘crowned prince” of ruling Congress party, meets up with Timothy Roemer, the US ambassador to India at a party hoisted by Congress president Sonia Gandhi. The US diplomat use this opportunity to probe on Rahuls’ perception of Lashkar threat to India. And Rahul, interestingly drifts from the topic mooted and instead focus on something that he perceives to be the real threat to India. Lashkar-e-Tayeba, that has promised to bleed India for another thousand years is nowhere in picture. Nor the Maoists whom incidentally the PrimeMinister of India described as gravest threat. The Christian militia groups holding many north- east states to ransom also fail to prick Rahul’s conscience. For him, India, and probably the US should focus on Hindu terror groups rather than wasting time on petty issues like Indian Mujaheedin, LeT and. the ISI!!

By making this nonsensical remarks, Rahul Gandhi has done what other Congress leaders could only partially achieve in the past- {1}he has diluted Indian government’s position against Pak sponsored terrorism in the country, thereby considerably weakening India’s declared war on terror. {2}He has also tried to confuse Indian agencies working round the clock to thwart external and internal threats, leaving them wondering what the actual target is. But more importantly, Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi {3}has actually humiliated the memories of thousands of martyrs who went down fighting terrorists during the last few decades in different parts of our country.

There will be many in this country who may try to dismiss or dilute Rahul’s remarks by pointing out his inexperience and lack of understanding of world affairs. Even BJP, in its initial reaction by Ravi Shankar Prasad, has said that it shows “how little has Rahul understood India”.

Though inadvertent, does Rahul deserve this kind of white washing? A look into the functioning of the Congress party since Sonia took over the reigns will show whatever that happens at the higher echelons of that party is no coincidence. It is all part of a well orchestrated drill to achieve the real goals, the Congress masters are aiming at. Even if the signals emanating from the top levels of the party may seem contradictory, it is not so, as we have seen in the infamous remarks of P Chidambaram in Parliament on Saffron Terror, and the party subsequently taking a different stance.

Hence Rahul’s remarks on Hindu terror groups must be seen in this light. It is not out of sheer inexperience or immaturity that Rahul Gandhi constantly engages himself in this shadow fighting. For some unknown and inexplicable reason, Rahul wants everyone, including the US, to focus on so called Saffron Terror. In this modern world of Cable gates, it won’t be long before we come to know about Rahul’s intention or at least US assessment on that. But we don’t have to wait to assess the consequence of this mockery of hard facts.

{1}First of all, as rightly pointed out by many, it will give leverage to Pakistan and take them much ahead in the PR war that they have successfully fought with India in the past. Despite all the hardcore evidence pointing towards Pakistan, that country has always put India far behind in diplomatic ,behind the curtain, dramas enacted on world arena. This exercise has ensured that Pakistan is hailed as a ‘partner’ in the War on Terror rather than partner in the making of terror, which is more close to the truth.

Now with Rahulspeak, Pakistan’s stand will gain more credence. As security experts have pointed out in the past, India need to ensure by all means that the onus is on Pakistani establishment for their patronage of terror. Only such consistent pressure would yield desired results. But now that has been thwarted and Pak’s predicted stand would be “Don’t preach us, you have a bigger problem.”

{2}The second direct impact will be at home, on Congress establishment. The Congress party enterprise has always nurtured courtesan politics and nomination culture, despite all tall claims to the contrary. Thus all important party positions as well as government posts are today occupied by ‘pygmies’ whose proximity to 10 Janpath alone been ‘their passport to glory’.

Following the Wikileaks, the cronies and attention mongers in the party, having understood what the crown prince wants, would predictably put even Digvijay Singh and P Chidambaram to shame. They will now talk more about ‘Saffron terror’ and less about national security concerns. Their intention could be plain - getting noticed by the high and mighty party bosses. But the consequence of this shift could be fatal for the nation. It will invariably help anti-national forces, both within and outside the country and even energize them to take on India with more vigor.

As pointed out earlier, this will {3}also deflect the focus of Indian security establishment including the army and intelligence agencies. Till now, there was at least no confusion on what the real threat was, though perceptions deferred on how to face and tackle Islamic fundamentalist threat aimed at the disintegration of Indian nation.

With Rahul’s real concern now in the open, those engaged in the war on terror for the country, are now literally left in the lurch. If LeT is no real concern, what are they doing in the high ranges of Kashmir, in the treacherous terrains of western India and in the innumerable cities and metros where threat of a Mumbai model attack always looms large?

{4}Another major impact of this episode is that it will send wrong signals to the friendly nations, including the US. To make it more clear, Rahul comments can also be construed as an open suggestion to foreign intelligence agencies, prominently the CIA, to form its futuristic agenda for India with so called Hindu terror groups in the centre stage, as against Islamic terror. The disastrous consequence of such a scenario is left to one’s imagination.

One thing is crystal clear. Rahul’s comments, as brought into open by Wikileaks, are in no way innocent or inadvertent observations emanating from thoughts of an immature politician. On the contrary, it is part of a larger ploy aimed at diluting our national conscience in general and our cultural pride in particular. A Plot within. On whose behalf? Only future hold the answers.
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7101
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by shyamd »

ramana wrote:
Mauli wrote:Wikileaks cable on Rahul may mar Congress gala

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/wiki ... 101217.htm

Halfway through the artcle I thought looks like Sheela Bhatt's drivel and lo and behold it was! Note how many times she takes a Paki stance of "if the cables are real"!
Thats what I thought when I was reading the articles. Also, note the pro-congress articles that she put out today about how great congress rule is (I think its called 10 points of why people vote Congress or something like that). LOL! She just exposed herself.
SwamyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16267
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 09:22

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SwamyG »

A different take on the issue http://www.hindu.com/2010/12/18/stories ... 860100.htm
Interestingly, the cable makes it clear that Mr. Gandhi is comparing Hindu radical groups coming up in reaction to the LeT's activities with a section of Indian Muslims for the LeT. The impression that the Congress general secretary said Hindu terror groups are more dangerous than the LeT was created in political circles by The Guardian's telegraphic headline, which summarised his more nuanced argument as “Ambassador warned that Hindu radical groups may pose bigger threat than LeT in India.”
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Chindu's job just like Sheelq Bhatt's is same to whitewash first family wrong doings and lull the gullible.

What RG did was despicable to the memory of the 26/11 dead at a bare minimum. It was his party instructions(Digvijay SIngh admits talking ot HK about the subject even thoguh there is no evidence!) that the primary point of response(ATS Mumbai) to terrorist attacks on Mumbai was chasing phantom ghosts of Hindu terror and got killed by LeT terrorists.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

It is time beef up security to Raul G, so that he doesn't blame again on Hindu Extremists (Appun ka Terrorists) [HEAT].
Manny
BRFite
Posts: 859
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 22:16
Location: Texas

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Manny »

deleted by moderator
Last edited by Gerard on 18 Dec 2010 04:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: user warned
shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7101
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by shyamd »

But the Hindu's are the majority.. Why target, break and attack the majority? Isn't that a recipe for disaster in the elections?
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

Other outlet mirror Rahul Gandhi thought process. Wonder which came first, and if there is coordination between the two.

US lawmakers ...
Given the recent experience with religiously inspired terrorism, we're concerned that if Hindu extremists can act with impunity toward religious minorities in India, these extremists and their ideologies will begin to affect international security as well
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

We are already concerned about Christian fundamentalist extremists in the USA and their attitudes towards non-Christian religions which are numerically minorities globally. We are worried that these extremists whose language often uncannily seem to reflect the exact same views as expressed by a section of US lawmakers, and their ideologies have already begun to affect international security as well.....
brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by brihaspati »

Sometime ago there was a great deal of discussion about Pakipee mimicking of Wikipee and planting false news about India and the threat of "Hindu terror". But then Guardian does bring out something concrete isn't it? So were some Pakis given earlier access to some selected portions of Wikipee by Guardian?
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Moderation note:

BRF is not a free for all where all sorts of libel and defamation of character are allowed. The moderators will protect the forum from members who abuse their posting privileges in this manner.
Mauli
BRFite
Posts: 371
Joined: 12 Jul 2010 21:08

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Mauli »

The extent to which the Congress has been rattled by the leak and the nature of some of the public discourse it has sparked was evident in Tiwari’s attempts to drag in the “sacrifices” made by the Nehru-Gandhi family.

He said: “Those who are pointing fingers at a family which has given so much sacrifices in the fight against terror have not themselves shed even a drop of blood ever. They escorted terrorists to Kandahar and were found wanting in defending India’s integrity when Parliament was attacked.”

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101218/j ... 316684.jsp
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Arjun wrote:
My view is whatever the importance or otherwise of what he said, it has not bearing on that old photograph of him watching a cricket match with is former Colombian girl friend. And more so when there seems to be an attempt to link the photo to his comment on saffron terror. Is that so difficult to understand?
That's not difficult to understand.

But my question was different. I wanted your take on Doggy Raja and Rahul's foot-in-mouth statements.....I wanted to know if you found those to be 'below the belt' and objectionable as well, or only the picture that you brought up in double-quick time.
The thread is moving very fast but Arjun I think I owe you (and others) a response.

I think both comments by Digvijay and Rahul are stupid, harmful to Indian interests and generally unbecoming of the ruling dispensation. But one needs to remember that the two comments were made at different times and to different audiences.

In that respect I think Digvijay's comments were, in addition to the above adjectives, mala fide and in very poor taste. That guy should be hauled over the coals. He clearly made that comment with an eye to vote bank politics and made a mockery of the sacrifice made by a brave police officer.

However, Rahul's comment is perhaps more harmful to India than Digvijay's remark. That's because willy nilly he's considered a future ruler of India and if the US Amby can get him to talk like this then we can well imagine what kind of impression that the US gets about the situation in India. It would be interesting if we could do a timeline analysis to see if after this discussion the Pakis ratcheted up their discourse on "Hindu terror". All said and done this is behavior unbecoming of someone who's been put in that seat by virtue of being a member of the Gandhi family. His grandmother, for all her faults, would have been very displeased IMO.

However, having said all that I fail see how calling Digvijay a Dog (your comment Doggy Raja) or splashing an old picture of Rahul with his sexy ex girl friend in hot pants and linking that with "safforn terror" comment furthers what should be and (thankfully despite all the distractions) is a serious discussion going on here.

I also find it interesting that you needed to ask me if I found the comments below the belt. What gave you the idea I didn't find them objectionable? Does one need to establish one's credentials here with either a chest beating post or one filled with invectives? The less pious being asked by the more pious to prove their loyalty, perhaps?
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

I consider Rahul's statement is not just worse but anti-national. Will there be any action by mananeya Pradhanmantri? Here is my logic -

LeT, PWG or say SIMI etc. are bannned organization. Hafeez, Amanullah Khan etc are absconders in India's law. One may not like at a personal level but RSS, VHP and even Ram sena are not even banned by even his own party's government. Narendra Modi is not an absconder from law. His comparision of India's organizations with internationally banned orgs just because there adhere to different ideology than what he has is treason and should be treated like Arundhati Roy.

For such persons there is no concept of below the belt. Why should BRF treat Rahul Gandhi any different from Arundhathi Roy?
Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Dipanker »

If Congress has any shame left then it needs to kick RG and DS out of the party. In any case it has lost all credibility.
Mauli
BRFite
Posts: 371
Joined: 12 Jul 2010 21:08

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Mauli »

..We Hindus are facing a veritable military-style onslaught, with the
Catholic heir apparent to virtual kingship in India suggesting that Hindus
are a greater danger to their own motherland than Islamic terrorists
emanating from Pakistan and his factotum, Digvijay Singh, opining that
Hindus may have killed a senior ATS Mumbai police officer...


--Dr. Gautam Sen
http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2010/12 ... dical.html
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Muppalla wrote:For such persons there is no concept of below the belt. Why should BRF treat Rahul Gandhi any different from Arundhathi Roy?
Sigh!

There's no question of treating him differently. Go ahead and bash him but about his public life as a political leader. Again my point is - one final time - there's no benefit to discussion by publishing an old picture of him sitting and watching a cricket match with an ex-girl friend.

Bash him as a politician who's let India down. But why drag his personal life into it?

Arundhati Roy is a punching bag on BRF on account of her views which are considered harmful for India. But I don't recall that anyone has made a comment or published pictures of people she may be sleeping around with have they? That's her personal space. And that's precisely my point. There's no need to bring in Rahul's personal life as long as that doesn't affect India and does not bring any value to this discussion.

Is that so difficult to understand.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Prem »

5. (C) FS Rao was careful to note that it would take some time to move from the latest round of talks to the formal Composite Dialogue between India and Pakistan that had been paused following Mumbai. Such talks “can’t just be switched on” and India needed “a climate of confidence” in order to proceed to a resumption of the full dialogue. She speculated that Pakistani COAS General Kayani was likely to tell the Senator that India’s military doctrine continued to pose a threat to Pakistan and observed that the Pakistani military was “hypnotically obsessed” with India’s military posture despite constant reassurances from India about its intentions.
No U.S. Help Needed on Peace Talk Process——-

6. (C) Senator Kerry asked if there were ways the United States could engage differently that would support the talks, perhaps through a regional approach that offered security guarantees with other interested states that would promote stability. Rao urged that the U.S. use it “enormous power” to encourage Pakistan to move forward in a productive way to create a positive climate for discussions. On process, Rao assured Kerry that India and Pakistan had established bilateral processes that should be used. As to Kerry’s suggestion of a regional approach that also involved outside powers, Rao said her instinctive reaction was that India and Pakistan needed to engage more effectively to create a level of trust that would support bilateral talks first.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

amit wrote:
Muppalla wrote:For such persons there is no concept of below the belt. Why should BRF treat Rahul Gandhi any different from Arundhathi Roy?
Sigh!

There's no question of treating him differently. Go ahead and bash him but about his public life as a political leader. Again my point is - one final time - there's no benefit to discussion by publishing an old picture of him sitting and watching a cricket match with an ex-girl friend.

Bash him as a politician who's let India down. But why drag his personal life into it?

Arundhati Roy is a punching bag on BRF on account of her views which are considered harmful for India. But I don't recall that anyone has made a comment or published pictures of people she may be sleeping around with have they? That's her personal space. And that's precisely my point. There's no need to bring in Rahul's personal life as long as that doesn't affect India and does not bring any value to this discussion.

Is that so difficult to understand.
After the leaks, what difference is there between Mushy and RG? In Mushy's case we talked about Mushy's soujorns with Turkish prostitutes with full wit on TSP thread. Why should there be a big heartburn if an aquaintance of RG wearing cheer leader dress is shown?

PS: I am not interested in such filth anyway but by making it as a bigdeal, I feel you are making unnecessary point. Let the folks have their fun, we had it with Mushy.
Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Arjun »

amit wrote:However, having said all that I fail see how calling Digvijay a Dog (your comment Doggy Raja) or splashing an old picture of Rahul with his sexy ex girl friend in hot pants and linking that with "safforn terror" comment furthers what should be and (thankfully despite all the distractions) is a serious discussion going on here.

I also find it interesting that you needed to ask me if I found the comments below the belt. What gave you the idea I didn't find them objectionable? Does one need to establish one's credentials here with either a chest beating post or one filled with invectives? The less pious being asked by the more pious to prove their loyalty, perhaps?
I was interested in your take to understand whether you were just singing to a standard political tune of support Congress / run down BJP come what may, or if you do use principles....anycase your response passes the test.

I don't think the picture was relevant either....as regards Doggy Raja, I would rather we continue using the term, with the moderator's permission. Some characters are so offensive that using their given Hindu names is just way too incongruous. Using Digvijay to refer to DS would be an insult to a fantastic Hindu name.
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Arjun wrote:...anycase your response passes the test.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I suppose now all my past alleged and imagined misdemeanors are now forgiven.
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Muppalla wrote:PS: I am not interested in such filth anyway but by making it as a bigdeal, I feel you are making unnecessary point. Let the folks have their fun, we had it with Mushy.
Sorry boss but it's you who's making such a big deal about the picture, especially with your comparison with Mush going to Turkish prostitutes with Rahul watch a cricket match with his girl friend at a time when he was not in politics. And also by bringing in Arundhati Roy, knowing fully well that I've been one of her most trenchant critics.

(Wasn't it Zardari going to Turkish escort girls and not Mush? But anyways...)

If you care to look back on the post you'll see a I made a total of two posts that were directly related to the picture before you and Arjun jumped in.

After the picture was posted I responded with my below the belt comment. The poster responded with a justification. In response I wrote that he was trivializing the discussion on the leaks and that I found it pointless to continue the discussion with him on this.

And you call that making a big deal about such "filth"?
Last edited by amit on 18 Dec 2010 09:53, edited 1 time in total.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

Okay fine. Let's leave. I enjoyed the pic. It was like some cheer leader taking timeoff with the celebrity. I never even knew that was his GF. My point was if you did not write that post as some ex-GF, there would be several of members like me who would have ignored and enjoyed the pic and moved on. We see such pics often while browsing TOI and Rediff even if we don't want.


Added later - Come on!! Mushy and Turkish prostitutes was discussed in detail during Kargil war. Zardari was discussed recently.
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Muppalla wrote:Okay fine. Let's leave. I enjoyed the pic. It was like some cheer leader taking timeoff with the celebrity. I never even knew that was his GF. My point was if you did not write that post as some ex-GF, there would be several of members like me who would have ignored and enjoyed the pic and moved on. We see such pics often while browsing TOI and Rediff even if we don't want.
OK my bad. Good to know you enjoyed the picture. Could I hazard a guess that your enjoyment was also because of the caption that was posted with the picture link.
Rahul Gandhi's Saffron threat-
I suppose I shouldn't have been so uptight. I should have realised it's all a big laugh, including the association between that picture and Rahul's saffron threat comment to Rommer in the presence of the PM.
Last edited by amit on 18 Dec 2010 09:57, edited 1 time in total.
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10195
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by sum »

Disgusting to see as to what levels our clown princes can stoop just to stay in power....have a tell-all session with the Amriki amby and bait the religion which makes up 80% of the country....
Ack thooo....
vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3989
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

I think its a good idea to make fun of Rahul. That should be much better at keeping posters out of trouble. In any case, the guy starts digging just when you think he's hit bottom :D.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

amit wrote:
Rahul Gandhi's Saffron threat-
I suppose I shouldn't have been so uptight. I should have realised it's all a big laugh, including the association between that picture and Rahul's saffron threat comment to Rommer in the presence of the PM.
See there is an anology that can be drawn from theat pic to that of what told to Rommer. He is sending a message. The Caption should be "See folks if I am not a celebrity and take a girl with this dress to B'lore club Ramsena would have attacked us but LeT would never attack. You see.. who is the biggest threat? LeT of Hindu orgs? " It is his way of giving proof with peaceful protest. :)
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

By the way any Tibet-Dalai Lama wiki leaks? We are concentrating too much on this joker. When he becomes PM it will be like Rabri Devi's Bihar.
Dhiman
BRFite
Posts: 527
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 13:56

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Dhiman »

Rahul's comments are so stupid that it wouldn't fool anyone not even himself. If he was telling this to a BJP leader or speaking at a rally one could think that he is trying to get Muslim votes, but to say it to an American ambassor???? For what purpose? Maybe the guy is plain stupid as his resume indicates.

A wise man once said: don't assume malice where stupidity can explain things, so in this case, I think Rahul is just a plain retard rather than a conniving politician.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7113
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Muppalla »

Cables show India's Tibet “balancing act”
Leaked cables from the United States embassy in New Delhi have shed light on the delicate balancing act India faced following widespread Tibetan riots in China in March 2008, as the government came under pressure to weigh “the sympathy of the Indian public” against Beijing's concerns over protests in India.

A dispatch from the U.S. embassy filed in March 26, 2008, two weeks after riots began in Tibet and several Chinese provinces with Tibetan populations, quotes the then foreign secretary — and current National Security Adviser — Shiv Shankar Menon as telling the U.S. Ambassador the Tibetan movement had “the sympathy of the Indian public.” India, he said, had been “a generally supportive home” to Tibetan exiles and the Dalai Lama, the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader.

Yet officials acknowledged the tough balancing act the government faced, as they came under increasing pressure from Beijing to clamp down on protests as the Olympic torch prepared to make its way through New Delhi.

The cable, part of the latest batch of documents released by WikiLeaks, indicated that the U.S. believed that the Indian government would ultimately favour “the side with greater public support.”

“While the GoI [Government of India] will never admit it, we expect New Delhi's Balancing Act with India's Tibetans to continue for the foreseeable future, with the caveat that a rise in violence — either by Tibetans here or by the Chinese security forces in Tibet — could quickly tip the balance in favour of the side with greater public support,” the embassy's political counsellor wrote.

The U.S. believed India would continue “to walk the razor's edge between Beijing and Dharamsala.” “It cannot afford to antagonise the former, but it has a sacred obligation to the latter,” the cable said.

The cables also highlight the prominent role played by U.S. officials in liaising between exiled Tibetan groups, the Indian government and Beijing. U.S. officials regularly met with envoys of the Dalai Lama, who advised the U.S. government on whether or not to pressure India to take a harder line on China.

In one meeting, Mr. Menon assured the U.S. Ambassador that arrested Tibetan protesters, some of whom tried to scale the walls of the Chinese embassy in New Delhi in the lead-up to the Olympic torch relay, would be released.

In another, the Dalai Lama's special envoy Lodi Gyari advised U.S. officials “to positively react” to India's measured statement in the aftermath of the protests, saying that India had “understandable compulsions, and it's better than the past when no statements were issued.”

Another cable, issued on April 10, illustrated the Dalai Lama's increasing desperation over Tibet's future, following the March violence. “Tibet is a dying nation. We need America's help,” he told U.S. officials.

The exiled Tibetan leader did, however, express confidence that China was still open to having dialogue with him, citing his interactions with an unnamed Chinese scholar.But in a later meeting in New Delhi in August with U.S. Ambassador Timothy Roemer, the Dalai Lama said the political issues in Tibet could wait and “should be sidelined for five to ten years.” Addressing environmental issues was a more pressing issue for the international community. His changed message, U.S. officials noted, “may signal a broader shift in strategy to reframe the Tibet issue as an environmental concern.”
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12197
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Getting back to the topic in hand.

Breaking News:PM outreach to Pak had opponents within govt

The question is knowing that TSP had doen othing on terror & the opposition within the GOI. The need to reach out to TSP.
The US embassy cable mentions finance minister Pranab Mukherjee among the "heavyweights" who opposed Singh's outreach to Pakistan even when terror threats continued
Post Reply