Wikileaks Diplomatic Cable Dump - News and Discussion

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Dec 2010 10:57

abhishek_sharma wrote: I think it follows from the fact that people just care for economic growth.
Evidence: (a) UPA won after 26/11 (and BJP did talk about terrorism and other issues at that time). (b) BJP won in Bihar with Nitish where they just talked about development.

Whether this a good phenomenon or not is a different question.

Its not a bad phenomenon if TSP minds its own business even as it stews in its own juice. But if its a ruse to white was TSP terror, then by the time people realize it, it may be too late.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:07

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=08STATE23763
SUBJECT FOLLOWING-UP WITH INDIA ON THE XXXXXXXXXXXX GRAPHITE
DATE 2008-03-07 15:03:00

US looking for India to block shipment of nuclear-grade graphite blocks to Iran from Indian company.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:08

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=08NEWDELHI3025
SUBJECT MUMBAI TERROR ATTACKS: GOI HEADS BEGIN TO ROLL
DATE 2008-11-30 16:04:00

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:09

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=07NEWDELHI909
SUBJECT SCENESETTER: INDIA COUNTER-TERRORISM JOINT WORKING
DATE 2007-02-23 11:11:00

Additionally, India’s police and security forces are overworked and hampered by bad police practices, including the wide-spread use of torture in interrogations, rampant corruption, poor training, and a general inability to conduct solid forensic investigations. India’s most elite security forces also regularly cut corners to avoid working through India’s lagging justice system, which has approximately 13 judges per million people. Thus Indian police officials often do not respond to our requests for information about attacks or our offers of support because they are covering up poor practices, rather than rejecting our help outright.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:12

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=07NEWDELHI1051
SUBJECT INDIANS OFFER BLEAK ASSESSMENT OF AFGHANISTAN AND
DATE 2007-03-02 14:02:00

The most worrisome new trend in Sri Lanka was the onset of some Islamic jihadist activity. The Indians had fragmentary information at this stage. There were open questions about whether Pakistan had a role in this new development, if only at the tactical level. Irrespective of this fact, however, India still remained concerned. If Islamic extremism were to take hold in Sri Lanka, yet another port of call in the larger Indian Ocean region could become a threat to India.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:16

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=08NEWDELHI3031
SUBJECT MUMBAI TERROR ATTACKS: POLITICAL FALLOUT CONTINUES
DATE 2008-12-01 13:01:00

The facade of all political parties coming together to present a united front to confront the tragedy lasted only a day.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 20 Dec 2010 11:18

Can't compare RSS with Nazis: Israel

Meanwhile, the Embassy of Israel in an official statement has said that no comparison can be made with the Nazi holocaust in which six million Jews were massacred.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cant-compare ... ml?from=tn

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:18

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=07NEWDELHI2142
SUBJECT IRAN MANIPULATING INDIAN ELITE OPINION-MAKERS
DATE 2007-05-04 11:11:00

Ambassador K.V. Rajan, former Secretary of the Ministry of External Affairs and current Chairman of the Prime Minister’s National Security Advisory Board (NSAB), called Charge May 4 for an urgent meeting in which he told Charge that he had been invited by the Iranian Embassy for an all expenses paid trip for “politicians, scholars and commentators.”....
...
Rajan told Charge that this trip was part of an effort on the part of the Iranian government to encourage anti-American, pro-Muslim scholars and think-tankers in India to influence Prime Minister Singh’s supporters to take a more pro-Iranian, anti-U.S. view, and that his presence on the delegation would have handed Iran a PR coup. In light of his suspicions, Rajan canceled at the last minute, citing a sudden family emergency. Following is the invitee list, which Rajan provided to Charge:
-- XXXXXXXXXXXX
India Seeks U.S. Help
------
¶4. (C) To counter this new and worrying effort to reach out to Indian opinion makers, Rajan proposed a visit to the United States starting May 14 in his NSAB capacity for five to seven days to talk to officials, think tanks, and the intelligence community to discuss ways to understand better U.S. assessments of Iran. He would expect this to feed into NSAB discussion of Iran policy options.

¶5. (C) Rajan’s analysis of Iranian intentions to influence PM Singh’s domestic constituencies is deeply worrying and spot-on, and confirms what we have been reporting. Rajan also noted stepped up Iranian funding to sympathetic Shia clerics. The United Progressive Alliance government is deeply interested in appeasing its Muslim and Left Front supporters, and is concerned about the outcome of elections in Uttar Pradesh state, where a large number of Muslim constituents reside. We see evidence that Iran has been buying off journalists, clerics and editors in Shia-populated areas of Uttar Pradesh and Kashmir, doling out large sums to stoke anti-Americanism. Now, it seems Iran is focusing squarely on influential elite audiences in Delhi, with a view to shaping the debate of India’s IAEA policy and the nuclear deal.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:20

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=07NEWDELHI2621
SUBJECT KASHMIRI PARAMILITARY SEEKING US VISA
DATE 2007-06-04 11:11:00

S) Summary: Kashmiri paramilitary leader and J&K State MLA Usman Abdul Majid is seeking a U.S. visa to attend functions hosted in Washington by the United States Institute of Peace starting on June 7th. Majid is a leader of the pro-GOI Ikhawan-ul-Musilmeen paramilitary group, which is made up of former Kashmiri terrorists who have surrendered to the GOI. Beginning in the early 1990s, India’s security forces used Ikhwan to combat terrorism in the Srinagar Valley. Known for its brutal and corrupt practices, Ikhwan is notorious for its use of torture, extra-judicial killing, rape, and extortion of Kashmiri civilians suspected of harboring or facilitating terrorists. In the interest of remaining balanced in our approach tothe Kashmir issue following Embassy New Delhi’s denial of Sayeed Ali Shah Geelani’s visa request, Post recommends denying this visa application as well. End Summary.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:21

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=09NEWDELHI1624
SUBJECT REACHING OUT TO RAHUL GANDHI AND OTHER YOUNG
DATE 2009-08-03 14:02:00

C) Summary: In a candid conversation with the Ambassador during the July 20 lunch hosted by Prime Minister Singh for the Secretary, Indian Congress Party General Secretary Rahul Gandhi described his focus on upcoming state and local elections, expressed concerns regarding the challenges surrounding the UPA coalition’s ability to implement its programs, and speculated about radicalization among Hindus and Muslims. Gandhi was interested in engaging with the Ambassador and could become a key interlocutor, along with other young members of Parliament, as we pursue a Strategic Dialogue with India. End Summary.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Dec 2010 11:27

A_Gupta wrote:http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=07NEWDELHI2142
SUBJECT IRAN MANIPULATING INDIAN ELITE OPINION-MAKERS
DATE 2007-05-04 11:11:00
Ambassador K.V. Rajan, former Secretary of the Ministry of External Affairs and current Chairman of the Prime Minister’s National Security Advisory Board (NSAB), called Charge May 4 for an urgent meeting in which he told Charge that he had been invited by the Iranian Embassy for an all expenses paid trip for “politicians, scholars and commentators.”....
...
Rajan told Charge that this trip was part of an effort on the part of the Iranian government to encourage anti-American, pro-Muslim scholars and think-tankers in India to influence Prime Minister Singh’s supporters to take a more pro-Iranian, anti-U.S. view, and that his presence on the delegation would have handed Iran a PR coup. In light of his suspicions, Rajan canceled at the last minute, citing a sudden family emergency. Following is the invitee list, which Rajan provided to Charge:
-- XXXXXXXXXXXX

And the reactions:

Carrying anti-Iran tales, top official angled for U.S. junket

Mr. Rajan was unavailable for comment and it is not known if the proposed trip materialised. But Indian government officials speaking to The Hindu on background said it was most inappropriate for an NSAB member to have approached the U.S. embassy in this way.

M.K. Rasgotra, the actual chairman of the NSAB at the time — Mr. Rajan having been a mere member of the board, it is not known why Mr. Pyatt described him as its head — reacted angrily to the revelation that a board member had approached the U.S. embassy to provide information and propose a trip for himself. “Firstly, I was chairman and there was never any mention of this bloody nonsense. I never sought to go out on any one's account nor did any member approach me to discuss this. He was clearly acting on his own. I am really surprised.”

Mr. Rasgotra, a former foreign secretary, said that all NSAB members take an oath of secrecy. Speaking on background, a former official of the National Security Council Secretariat said NSAB members are meant to provide reports only to the Government of India. “They are not meant to approach foreign embassies/governments. It is not their job to be doing diplomacy.”

The names of the respected Indian commentators who visited Iran in April 2007 are blacked out in the cable but their identities are no secret: Vikram Sood, former head of Research and Analysis Wing, India's external intelligence agency; A. Gopalakrishnan, former head of the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board; Anuradha and Kamal Chenoy from Jawaharlal Nehru University; Bharat Karnad from the Centre for Policy Research; and Amit Baruah, the then Diplomatic Correspondent of The Hindu.

Correspondents from this newspaper and other publications routinely visit foreign countries on official invitations. Asked for his reaction to Mr. Rajan's apprehensions about the Iran trip, Mr. Sood said he was amused at his presumption that seasoned commentators and ex-officials would be unable to form their own opinions on places they visited.

[/quote]
Scary that we dont know what our NSAB members are upto!!

Also, would the US not know the chairman of NSAB and call another person( Rajan in this case) as a chairman??

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:28

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=09NEWDELHI412
SUBJECT INDIAN NSA SHARES DESIRE FOR COOPERATION WITH
DATE 2009-03-04 13:01:00

Summary. In a cordial March 3 meeting with FBI Director Robert Mueller, Indian National Security Advisor M.K. Narayanan:
-- recognized the importance of the improved cooperation between the U.S. and India since November’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai;
-- identified Lashkar-e-Taiba as the number one threat to India, while acknowledging that al Qaeda was the most dangerous threat to most other countries;
-- agreed on the need for India to integrate its intelligence and law enforcement operations as it builds preventative counter-terrorism institutions;
-- described today’s extremists as differing from those of the past; they are less likely to be from the economically downtrodden, but now include professionals and affluent religious extremists;
-- suggested that Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) was the root of India’s terrorism problems, adding that major reform of ISI was needed to stop Pakistan’s terrorist problems; and
-- dismissed the notion of conducting a joint investigation into the Mumbai attacks with Pakistan, also noting that the existing bilateral Joint Anti-Terror Mechanism had not yielded any tangible results.
End Summary.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 20 Dec 2010 11:33

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=10NEWDELHI355
SUBJECT NSA MENON DISCUSSES REGIONAL SECURITY AND TRADE
DATE 2010-02-25 12:12:00

Menon welcomed the condolences offered by Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) for the February 13 bombing in Pune that killed 10 and injured dozens. The bombing was “a shock, yet not shocking,” considering India’s familiar experience as a terrorist target. Menon credited intelligence shared by the United States with helping prompt the Indian government to protect targets in the vicinity of the attack, such as the Chabad House and Osho Ashram, perhaps leaving the terrorists no alternative but to go after a soft target instead. Three groups had claimed responsibility, but the government had not come to any conclusions about the perpetrators. In India’s long history of dealing with terrorism, Menon said, “Most attacks lead back to Pakistan.”
“Many Pakistans”
- - -
.....
Menon shared his perspective that “We are dealing with many Pakistans, so we need to run many Pakistan policies at the same time.”

(emphasis added)

McCaskill noted that if there is one issue with regard to India that makes Americans “cranky” it is that India was stealing our manufacturing base.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Dec 2010 11:41

Gents,let's get things into perspective reg. this thread,the leaks and afll-out.We needn't descend into politicking as the main parties are doing for various reasons.

Firstly,what the leaks have brought out so far is truly enlightening.JUst a few examples.

1.PC's desperate plea to the US to allow our team to sit in the next room -where headley was so that he could LIE to the I(ndian public that we had "access" to him! I suppose the "access" was through the keyhole!

2.The US statements about other parties and the N-deal.Its clear interference in India's internal affairs.This interference is at every level,wthing the adminsitration too,shockingly,at the MEA level,NSA level and at the PMO level.The pressure upon the Def. Min. is too well known.

3.Rahul G's statement about "Hindu terror",going against the official party line.Does it truly reflect his thinking,or was he cosying upto the US ambassador in a larger issue about Paki terror.It had to be part of a alrger discussion,in what context were his remarks made? His backtracking at the party session shows that he has realised that he made a mistake,but his party loyalists,like his Don Quixote,Digvijay are now tilting at windmills!

5.The US's Indian role for Afghanistan,only role for us is for Boillywood to entertain the Afghans! Why don't they send in Hollywood stars ,are they too scared?!

The raging war now on between the BJP and Congress is a very clever attempt by the Congress to defelcet the public's attention to the greatest theft in Indian history,not by a foreign invader but by the rulers themselves.This is the core issue which the Opposition should stay focussed on and not descend into petty trading of the communal tag.Rahul's silence with the US ambassador on 26/11 should be highlighted and he should be called upon for an explanation to give him a fair chance to defend himself.

There appears to be only one man left in the Congress Party,Sonia G.The rest are all pygmies.She has seen the writing on the wall for the Party and is taking emergency measures,"pot calling the kettle black" (Karnataka).The BJP should also make sacrifices if only to retain the moral high ground.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 20 Dec 2010 17:17

Sorry, if this has been posted before.........

Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange

By Michael Moore <http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/michaelmoore>

Tuesday, December 14, 2010

<http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/signup>

Friends,

Yesterday, in the Westminster Magistrates Court in London, the lawyers for WikiLeaks co-founder Julian Assange presented to the judge a document from me stating that I have put up $20,000 of my own money to help bail Mr. Assange out of jail.

Furthermore, I am publicly offering the assistance of my website, my servers, my domain names and anything else I can do to keep WikiLeaks alive and thriving as it continues its work to expose the crimes that were concocted in secret and carried out in our name and with our tax dollars.

We were taken to war in Iraq on a lie. Hundreds of thousands are now dead. Just imagine if the men who planned this war crime back in 2002 had had a WikiLeaks to deal with. They might not have been able to pull it off. The only reason they thought they could get away with it was because they had a guaranteed cloak of secrecy. That guarantee has now been ripped from them, and I hope they are never able to operate in secret again.

So why is WikiLeaks, after performing such an important public service, under such vicious attack? Because they have outed and embarrassed those who have covered up the truth. The assault on them has been over the top:

**Sen. Joe Lieberman says <http://middletownpress.com/articles/201 ... 770342.txt> WikiLeaks "has violated the Espionage Act."

**The New Yorker's George Packer calls <http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/g ... crecy.html> Assange "super-secretive, thin-skinned, [and] megalomaniacal."

**Sarah Palin claims <http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=465212788434> he's "an anti-American operative with blood on his hands" whom we should pursue "with the same urgency we pursue al Qaeda and Taliban leaders."

**Democrat Bob Beckel (Walter Mondale's 1984 campaign manager) said <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/0 ... 93467.html> about Assange on Fox: "A dead man can't leak stuff ... there's only one way to do it: illegally shoot the son of a bitch."

**Republican Mary Matalin says <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CXAiOmAJKs> "he's a psychopath, a sociopath ... He's a terrorist."

**Rep. Peter A. King calls <http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2 ... se_of.html> WikiLeaks a "terrorist organization."

And indeed they are! They exist to terrorize the liars and warmongers who have brought ruin to our nation and to others. Perhaps the next war won't be so easy because the tables have been turned -- and now it's Big Brother who's being watched ... by us!

WikiLeaks deserves our thanks for shining a huge spotlight on all this. But some in the corporate-owned press have dismissed the importance of WikiLeaks ("they've released little that's new!") or have painted them as simple anarchists ("WikiLeaks just releases everything without any editorial control!"). WikiLeaks exists, in part, because the mainstream media has failed to live up to its responsibility. The corporate owners have decimated newsrooms, making it impossible for good journalists to do their job. There's no time or money anymore for investigative journalism. Simply put, investors don't want those stories exposed. They like their secrets kept ... as secrets.

I ask you to imagine how much different our world would be if WikiLeaks had existed 10 years ago. Take a look at this photo <http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/16072 ... mages-News> . That's Mr. Bush about to be handed a "secret" document on August 6th, 2001. Its heading read: "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US." And on those pages it said the FBI had discovered "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings." Mr. Bush decided to ignore it and went fishing for the next four weeks.

But if that document had been leaked, how would you or I have reacted? What would Congress or the FAA have done? Was there not a greater chance that someone, somewhere would have done something if all of us knew about bin Laden's impending attack using hijacked planes?

But back then only a few people had access to that document. Because the secret was kept, a flight school instructor in San Diego who noticed that two Saudi students took no interest in takeoffs or landings, did nothing. Had he read about the bin Laden threat in the paper, might he have called the FBI? (Please read this essay <http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/15 ... s-20101015> by former FBI Agent Coleen Rowley, Time's 2002 co-Person of the Year, about her belief that had WikiLeaks been around in 2001, 9/11 might have been prevented.)

Or what if the public in 2003 had been able to read "secret" memos from Dick Cheney as he pressured the CIA to give him the "facts" he wanted in order to build his false case for war? If a WikiLeaks had revealed at that time that there were, in fact, no weapons of mass destruction, do you think that the war would have been launched -- or rather, wouldn't there have been calls for Cheney's arrest?

Openness, transparency -- these are among the few weapons the citizenry has to protect itself from the powerful and the corrupt. What if within days of August 4th, 1964 -- after the Pentagon had made up the lie that our ship was attacked by the North Vietnamese in the Gulf of Tonkin -- there had been a WikiLeaks to tell the American people that the whole thing was made up? I guess 58,000 of our soldiers (and 2 million Vietnamese) might be alive today.

Instead, secrets killed them.

For those of you who think it's wrong to support Julian Assange because of the sexual assault allegations he's being held for, all I ask is that you not be naive about how the government works when it decides to go after its prey. Please -- never, ever believe the "official story." And regardless of Assange's guilt or innocence (see the strange nature of the allegations here <http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207> ), this man has the right to have bail posted and to defend himself. I have joined with filmmakers Ken Loach and John Pilger and writer Jemima Khan in putting up the bail money -- and we hope the judge will accept this and grant his release today.

Might WikiLeaks cause some unintended harm to diplomatic negotiations and U.S. interests around the world? Perhaps. But that's the price you pay when you and your government take us into a war based on a lie. Your punishment for misbehaving is that someone has to turn on all the lights in the room so that we can see what you're up to. You simply can't be trusted. So every cable, every email you write is now fair game. Sorry, but you brought this upon yourself. No one can hide from the truth now. No one can plot the next Big Lie if they know that they might be exposed.

And that is the best thing that WikiLeaks has done. WikiLeaks, God bless them, will save lives as a result of their actions. And any of you who join me in supporting them are committing a true act of patriotism. Period.

I stand today in absentia with Julian Assange in London and I ask the judge to grant him his release. I am willing to guarantee his return to court with the bail money I have wired to said court. I will not allow this injustice to continue unchallenged.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com <http://www.michaelmoore.com/>

P.S. You can read the statement I filed today in the London court here <http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike- ... hael-moore> .

P.P.S. If you're reading this in London, please go support Julian Assange and WikiLeaks at a demonstration <http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/2187/1/> at 1 PM today, Tuesday the 14th, in front of the Westminster court.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 20 Dec 2010 17:42

The first batch of US embassy cables related to Bangladesh, released on whistleblower site WikiLeaks, has failed to reveal much that the public will find particularly enlightening or interesting, except maybe an affirmation that the “Minus 2” strategy to remove the leaders of the Awami League and BNP had in-fact been in place in 2007.

In probably the most damaging revelation contained within the handful of cables released so far that touch upon Bangladesh, the DGFI is implicated in an effort to absorb the banned terrorist organization, the Harkat ul Jihad, into mainstream politics through a misbegotten attempt at forming the Islamic Development Party (IDP), just before the December 2008 elections.

Hasina, Khaleda’s return put CTG at ‘crossroads’: The most intriguing cable as far as Bangladesh is concerned, originating from the US mission in New Delhi dated April 27, 2007, reveals the thinking between the US, the UK and India in the aftermath of the ‘1/11’ political changeover in 2007. This was four days after the arrest warrant out against Sheikh Hasina at that time was suspended, and two days after the ban on her re-entering the country was lifted.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Dec 2010 17:47

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/wikileaks-ch ... 950-2.html

WikiLeaks: China pays Nepal to arrest Tibetans

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 20 Dec 2010 17:57

@Raghavendra^^^

I'll wait for the 'pulao' but think it will be the usual 'khichdi'.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Dec 2010 21:34

BJP shouldn't reply to the saffron terror bogey raise by INC. INC is the Paki here and any response from BJP will consolidate the minority and pseudo-secular votebanks. Just as any movement from India will consolidate the Paki forces. So JEM concentrating on corruption is the right tactic.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Dec 2010 21:47

as the leaks said - indian politicians waste no effort and don't worry about the depths they'll stoop to for political gains...

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 20 Dec 2010 21:56

Sonia part of Opus Dei network: Singhal
Commenting upon whistleblower website Wikileaks expose, Mr Singhal said Ms Gandhi should also explain her son, who was a ''dim-witted child'' and did not know what to speak when and where.

Speaking about serious allegations levelled against the RSS by Congress General Secretary Digvijay Singh, he said, ''Now, only God will do something about him.'

http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/ful ... 08439.html

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Dec 2010 22:02

If BJP is wise enough, they will not take the 'saffron terror' bait. Like India does not take the bait of Paki activities, BJP should focus on the various scams. Meanwhile take time to clean its own stable as well. Now is the opportunity to strengthen and clean itself.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Dec 2010 22:21

SwamyG wrote:If BJP is wise enough, they will not take the 'saffron terror' bait. Like India does not take the bait of Paki activities, BJP should focus on the various scams. Meanwhile take time to clean its own stable as well. Now is the opportunity to strengthen and clean itself.

Yes, but I hope that some wise men/women in INC will counsel the likes of Rahul Baba, DS etc to restrain themselves, because if they continue their unnecessary provocations, some nut case will sure retaliate, and the viscous cycle thereafter may not be controllable. Thats my worry. The damage to India's interests by all this "hindu terror" nonsesne has been immense; "Hindu terror" >> >> >> TSP pigLeT is now the norm, and the likes of Bakara will actually start debating that. Can you believe it? At least the damage should not go further.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Dec 2010 22:25

On this allegation that US infiltrated BJP and influenced them on the nuke deal. Based on the cables alone, I don't see anything sinister. US used its lobbying power to change opinions. I am sure Indian diplomats do the same in US. So far so good. But what we don't know is if any bribes were paid etc. But there is no equivalence between BJP talking to US diplomats on the nuke deal, and Rahul Baba candidly revealing his & his mom's mind on the nature of the threat to India.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 20 Dec 2010 23:17

There is something to this concern of US making espionage/influence inroads into Indian babucracy, police etc. Given the massive Indian middle class and the prevalence of US immigrants in many families, it is not surprising that we hear of traitors being lured by the promise of Green Cards, jobs for wife/kids and a cushy lifestyle. In that sense, we may be better off with these guys making money of local corruption, in a perverse sense.

BTW, it looks like China and Iran are also using lucre to lure Indians.

arjunm · Post by **arjunm** » 20 Dec 2010 23:22

Subramaniam Swamy alleges Rahul G having connections with ISI.
He said one ISI man from Pakistani Consulate in New Delhi is seeing Mr.Rahul Gandhi.Mr.Swamy wants CBI to interrogate Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singh on this ISI connection.

Janata Party President Subramanian Swamy while addressing a press conference in New Delhi on Sunday accused Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi of having connections with Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency. Swamy said that CBI should investigate into this matter as it is a question of national security. While commenting upon Rahul's Hindu terror remarks published in WikiLeaks, he alleged that this may be one of the government's conspiracies to divert attention from the core issue of Islamic militancy to Hindu radicalism.

Here is the video of Press conference:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/audio-new ... ISI-links-

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 20 Dec 2010 23:35

ramana wrote:BJP shouldn't reply to the saffron terror bogey raise by INC. INC is the Paki here and any response from BJP will consolidate the minority and pseudo-secular votebanks. Just as any movement from India will consolidate the Paki forces. So JEM concentrating on corruption is the right tactic.

But boilerplate statements should be fine since Digvijay and friends are persisting with conspiracy theories. Like when talking about terror attacks, call on Pakistan and Congress to show better behaviour.

Mauli · Post by **Mauli** » 21 Dec 2010 00:29

Fatal attraction

Guided by Digvijay Singh, Rahul Gandhi has weakened India's political will to fight Pakistani terrorism, says N.V.Subramanian.

New York/ Torrance, California, 20 December 2010: India's rise is threatened by China and by Pakistan and by Pakistan and China acting in tandem. There are serious troubles in the manner that India addresses the Chinese threat and the joint challenges posed by China and Pakistan. But there are more fundamental problems in the way India faces up to Pakistani terrorism, which this piece tangentially will deal with.
The UPA government has always been suspect on the issue of Islamist terrorism. It directly derives from the Congress's votebank politics. There is no evidence that the Muslims vote en bloc for the Congress anymore if they ever did before. The spectacular victory of the JD-U/ BJP coalition lead by Nitish Kumar in Bihar grounded on considerable favourable Muslim voting advertises that the Congress's votebank politics is not delivering.
And yet, the Congress has become unable to embrace mainstream politics, a politics, in a phrase, of non-appeasement. Non-appeasement politically was first advocated by L.K.Advani in the late-Eighties and Nineties, and much of the BJP's early attractiveness drew from it. With the Advani-led Ramjanambhoomi Movement culminating in the bringing down of the disputed structure in Ayodhya, accompanied by the rightward Hindutva lurch of the BJP and the removal of the feeling of second-rate citizenship on the part of Hindus, the concept of non-appeasement lost its salience and traction.
This writer believes, as always, that non-appeasement is a better political method to reconcile the secular objectives of the Indian state with the deep faith that pervades and enriches Indian society. A parrot-like repetition of secularism won't fetch secularism, especially if it is mouthed by opportunistic and venal politicians like Laloo and Mulayam Yadav and Digvijay Singh.
Digvijay Singh is perhaps the worst example of the opportunistic politician. He is in the divisive mould of Arjun Singh{Here goes my CT of these Rajas screwing dynasty. Remember VP being dormant and pretending harmless before going for the final kill. Arjun Singh joined congress with promise to his mother of revenging the jailing of his father by Nehru. Two people immediately responsible DP Mishra and PC sethi were completely destroyed politically}. It is no coincidence that Arjun Singh promoted Digvijay Singh as a fellow thakur in the caste-ridden politics of Madhya Pradesh and that Digvijay backstabbed him. With Arjun Singh bowing out, Digvijay Singh has fully taken over as a leading advisor to the Congress shadow government, whose shadow prime ministers variably are Sonia and Rahul Gandhi. It is of course no longer ironic that they shadow their own government whose nominal prime minister is Manmohan Singh.
If the Congress party had been truly introspective and intellectually interpretative about its decline in the late-Eighties and Nineties, paralleled by the rise of the BJP and Hindutva politics, it would have returned to re-examining the concept of non-appeasement. Certainly, non-appeasement is easier said than done. It would loosely be analogous to the Supreme Court advancing case law with hits and misses on a particularly tangled aspect of the Constitution. But to this writer at least, there is no alternative to seriously, consistently and coherently building on non-appeasement to make India genuinely and solidly secular.
Unfortunately, the Congress is unable or unwilling to make long-term investments in this direction. The tragedy of power politics is that nobody will make investments in personal time on such matters (the Congress has no Surendra Mohan, for example). With the result, there is no escape from the viciousness of politicians like Digvijay Singh, who would do anything to advance themselves.
For example, as the propagator of "muscular secularism" like Arjun Singh, Digvijay has no compunction in repeating what increasingly appears to be a fabrication that Hemant Karkare hours before falling to 26/11 terrorists expressed to him his fear of so-called "Hindu terrorists". Let this be clear. A tipping point is reached when a community can be tagged terroristic when a substantial proportion of it embraces terrorism and fundamentalist ideologies. That is not so with the Hindus, manifestly among the most tolerant of religious communities. India as a secular democracy would have been impossible without the wholehearted consent and acceptance of the Hindu community.
Trust this writer, but Digvijay well knows this. But his entire politics is based on demonizing Hindus, and he thoroughly has infected the Congress with this deadly virus. Digvijay Singh is Rahul Gandhi's political tutor. Rahul Gandhi has as much intrinsic understanding of India as his mother, Sonia, which is zilch. Therefore, Digvijay probably has had an easy run of brainwashing Rahul Gandhi suspiciously to look at the Hindu community. How else would you explain Rahul Gandhi's controversial madcap statement to a US diplomat put out on Wikileaks that India faces a bigger threat from "Hindu terrorists" than the LeT?
At a stroke, it washes away India's campaign against Pakistani terrorism particularly post 26/11.
And Rahul Gandhi's statement cannot be more insulting to the victims in India of Pakistan-inflicted terrorism.
But the point is not only about Rahul Gandhi or Digvijay Singh but the Congress's fatal attraction to votebank politics. Votebank politics is an end in itself. But the Congress party is also using it to cover the present gargantuan governance deficit and the corruption of the Manmohan Singh government. The government is still in early life and, for their own reasons, neither the Congress nor the BJP want immediate elections. The BJP is waiting for the peoples' cup of woes to fill and overflow (and it is getting to there fast) while the Congress wants to postpone defeat until after the end of the government's term.
For the rest of us, there is more condemnation to suffer from a government which entirely has lost its moral authority. As the saying goes, things are going to get a lot worse before getting better. And then, they may not. If Digvijay Singh succeeds with his political tutoring of Rahul Gandhi, we will lose all will to fight Pakistani terrorism and surrender our rise to the forces of darkness lead in our region by China partnering with Pakistan.
N.V.Subramanian is Editor, http://www.NewsInsight.net, and writes internationally on strategic affairs. He has authored two novels, University of Love (Writers Workshop, Calcutta) and Courtesan of Storms (Har-Anand, Delhi). Email: envysub@gmail.com.

http://www.newsinsight.net/archivedebat ... recno=2080

As said earlier, Mulayam, Lalu are less of problem. Real culprits are the Rai-bahadurs and their progenies who deserved to be shot dead on the eve of independence.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Dec 2010 01:03

jee, rangudu.. what is happening to you? I thought you are gud analyst.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 21 Dec 2010 02:25

Muppalla wrote:
brihaspati wrote:JEM's criticism of the BJP is appropriate. BJP is not reacting fast enough on multiple fronts of verbal debate and conflict. I can see some sense in not responding to Digvijay Singh to give hime more importance than due. But not immediately bring up a press conference and lay down a comparative list of "terrors" - the timelines of starting of terror - the Maoist terror and Jihadi terror timeline both of which stretches right from 1947-48, is and was a serious lapse of media management. Rahul is not just any digvijay Singh, and whether BJP ignores him or not doesn't matter because the Congress has no other option than bringing him forward.
brihaspati ji, BJP not fast reacting or BJP not capitalizing may have certain reasons. Fundamentally they have the example of post 26/11 reactions. What happened in post 26/11 and during 2009 elections is simple, the more BJP talks about terror and related issues, the polarization also is more. What that means is that all the muslim voters vote to just one party. The urban middle class hindu voters of this generation (disco/pub gen) are not interested in this slug fest of debates of terror and POTA etc. That is where MMS and Rahul gained max mileage.

This entire Digvijay and Rahul opps are in the context of future UP elections. They are planning to repeat the past success by trapping BJP into this step. All it needs is a Varun Gandhi and Rajnath Singh type reactionary western UP leader. BJP better control the tounges of these folks and not utter any un-necessary statements.

I do not know if you are following the ground in UP these days. Probably you may not be hearing the voice of Amar Singh after he left SP. This fellow is a mole of INC and he is quitely working. He created a party called Peace party but he is not part of it. It is Muslims only party and did very impressively in the last five by-elections. In fact in all the elections it came either second or third but way above congress and also SP. Either BSP or Kalyan Singh's parties won the seats. Amar Singh probably may be trying to broker to make this peace party as an alliance partner with either SP or INC. It all depends upon who bids Amar Singh better. In addition it seems Thakur Digvijay Singh and Thakur Amar Singh are working to bring atleast Thakurs on one place so that they can do a Thakur+Muslim combo which could be a winning force in a fractured situation where even 20% of votes can fetch a seat.

BJP's game plan it to ensure the 18% getting split across SP, INC, Peace and probably BSP while bringing in Uma Bharati and have some understanding with Kalyan Singh. OBC+Bania+some Brahmin is their formula. BSP is purely Dalit+Some Brahmin. All in all it is possible that SP can become Yadav only. This is going to be almost same as Laloo's fate.

Taking all these factors into consideration and also "once bitten twice shy" stand, BJP is on a perceived realistic appraoch. They are not taking the bait.

I don't know if they are right or wrong but that is strategy that is visible.

Very perceptive. Excellent. The ahole Digvijay , moron Rahul and shroud Sonia are trying to provoke some low level RSS/BJP or VHP guys to come out and say some thing stupid. Then their agents in UndieTV like Burkha will go on a war path how RSS/BJP are flaming the wars. Their pants got wet after Bihar elections that Muslims even voted for Nitish and even BJP and ignored the CON crooks totally. They are basically pooping in their pants. What if the communal cauldron they established that makes people to vote communal basis disappears? They are horrified at the thought. So they are going tooth and nail trying to provoke BJP/RSS.

Modi gave a wonderful response.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/modi- ... 101218.htm

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi [ Images ] on Saturday alleged that inputs provided by Congress leader Rahul Gandhi [ Images ] -- that 'radicalised Hindu groups' could pose a bigger threat than outfits like Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ] -- were responsible for the 'pro-Pakistan policies' of the United States.

"Now it is clear who was prompting USA to speak in favour of Pakistan," Modi said, reacting to US diplomatic cables released by whistle-blower website WikiLeaks on Friday, which carried Rahul's remarks about radicalised Hindu groups.

"The whole world was convinced that Pakistan promotes terrorism. They train terrorists and terrorism is the biggest export industry for it," he said.

Modi said he used to wonder why Americans supported Pakistan all through despite the widely acknowledged fact.

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 101220.htm

I think this whole war on Hindus declared by Dogvijay and Prince idiot is turning a lot of moderate Hindus also angry. It is only matter of time this anger will turn into a tide the way it happened late 1980s after Shah Bano case. I think people are slowly learning about the poisonous Gandhi die-nasty. BJP has to set their house in order and keep pointing how DogVijay and DIE-nasty are helping Puke terrorists.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 21 Dec 2010 03:12

Most of this discussion will go OT :
So primarily in response to Muppalla-ji, very briefly : in my post the response I said was more needed, aimed at RG. I said I could understand reasons to ignore Digvijay Singh. Moreover, the responses I meant - I stated as immediate verbal quip, instant counter-points that do not leave much room for people like DS or RG to manoeuvre around. Certain responses cannot be made too late, then they become too serious.

ramana ji, not the bait, but posting a counter-bait was necessary. That would have deflected the "bait" and forced the political D(S)-company to defend in another direction.

Muppalla ji, DS does not matter. RG however is going to be backed by a section of US establishment. Not deconstructing his ideological stance, as obvious with US connections and support hinted at by the US diplomat in the Wikipee item - is not a good strategy for the future. The last time the US establishment backed up someone in India with specific Islamophile/Christianophile postures (never attacking them while criticizing or deconstructing Hindus) we had a leadership selected under MKG that led to the Partition of India. I simply wanted that foreign "support" angle to be exploited.

I am following up on UP. I have more info coming in nowadays actually. I am not too hopeful on that front either. Some other thread.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Dec 2010 03:40

brihaspati wrote:DS does not matter. RG however is going to be backed by a section of US establishment. Not deconstructing his ideological stance, as obvious with US connections and support hinted at by the US diplomat in the Wikipee item - is not a good strategy for the future. The last time the US establishment backed up someone in India with specific Islamophile/Christianophile postures (never attacking them while criticizing or deconstructing Hindus) we had a leadership selected under MKG that led to the Partition of India. I simply wanted that foreign "support" angle to be exploited.

I fully agree. There is a *vast* middle ground between dead silence (which could be interpreted as guilty silence by interested parties) and firebrand reactionary soundbites of Varun Gandhi or Rajnath Singh (which could polarize the UP Muslim electorate towards INC.)

There is no reason why the BJP could not put forward a detailed and systematic deconstruction of Rahul Gandhi's viewpoint, including point-by-point comparisons of LeT/Maoist terrorism vs. alleged "Hindoo" terrorism and their effects, without sounding in the least bit "reactionary" or "communal". There is no reason why they could not do this while consistently hammering INC on the 1.7 Trillion Rupee scam perpetrated by the 2Gs.

It does not have to be exclusively one tack or the other, unless one is incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, as the BJP's central leadership currently seems to be. There is no reason why, otherwise, Lap-Dogvijay can stand up before the AICC meet and make allegations of Hindoo terrorism even in the Samjhauta Blasts Case, which the US itself has conclusively ascribed to LeT operative Asif Kashmani (see http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 126714.cms)

Apparently the BJP itself is pathetically unable to respond even to such a blatant, cast-iron case of misinformation... so their lack of a comprehensive deconstruction of the Rahul Gandhi viewpoint is hardly surprising.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 21 Dec 2010 04:13

Much of the discussion here has treated the Rahul Gandhi Wikileak as either an issue of RG's stupidity, or as some kind of political theatre stunt. Both these interpretations reflect poor analysis, because in fact RG's statement was not made to any public political gathering, and was indeed never intended to be heard by the Indian public, Muslim or non-Muslim.

What the Wikileak reveals is that the ruling Maino family is prosecuting an undeclared, ongoing and ideological war against India's Hindu polity... no more and no less. The public declaration itself is an accident that Lap-Dogvijay and others are trying to paper over by bluster. The political theatre is ex post facto... long after the statement was made at a private and privileged gathering by Rahul Gandhi.

Indian news channels have not been far behind in taking up the "anti-Hindu-terror" crusade. Make no mistake, a Crusade is exactly what this is. And it has nothing to do with "terror" at all.

A story run on Headlines Today only minutes after the NaMo/Uma Bharti response to Rahul Gandhi's statement, paraded bullet-pointed text asserting atrocity after atrocity as having been committed by "RSS-linked groups"... including Samjhauta, Mecca Masjid, Ajmer Sharif, and plots for many more. None of these were qualified by the adjective "alleged"... they were simply stated as fact.

The source? Apparently the interrogation of Swami Aseemanand by the CBI.

Swami Aseemanand, one will recall, is a stalwart of the Ghar Wapasi program in the Dangs tribal region of Gujarat. His mission is to bring back to the dharmic fold, tribals who were hoodwinked or intimidated into embracing Christianity by predatory missionaries in the region. The only reason he is under CBI interrogation is a trumped-up link concocted by the INC's gestapo apparatus, citing certain "statements" of Lt. Col. Srikant Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur. We all know how sound the case against those two persons is... it involves public ATS allegations regarding the "Samjhauta Blasts", which were already known by the ATS to be LeT's handiwork at the time those allegations were made.

Think then of Swami Aseemanand. Another dedicated leader of the Ghar Wapasi movement, one might recall, was Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, pursuing the same cause of rehabilitating converted tribals in Orissa. Laxmanananda was, of course, murdered by "Maoist elements" at his Ashram... again a very convenient development for Missionaries thirsting to continue their depradations in that area.

The undeclared war on India's Hindu polity has been prosecuted in full swing for some time. Laxmanananda was murdered in January 2008; the trumped-up Malegaon charges date to late 2008. Only 26/11 brought the focus back to Pakistan for some time... otherwise the pogrom would have continued as planned. Now that 26/11 is receding from public consciousness, the Mainos are going after their real enemy once again, under the pretext of "fighting terror."

The Rahul Gandhi Wikileak has only blown the lid off the Mainos' Crusade, and exposed it to the full light of day. The import of this cannot be overstated. By comparison, Pakistan and China are no threats at all to the only Bharat we have.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 21 Dec 2010 04:18

Here is a documentary on Wikileaks. Long one, but worth watching if you track wikileak.

http://maxkeiser.com/2010/12/17/new-wik ... ocumentary

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 21 Dec 2010 04:31

@rudradev ^^:"It does not have to be exclusively one tack or the other, unless one is incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time, as the BJP's central leadership currently seems to be."

From India's standpoint, neither the INC or the BJP will get us intact to 2020 and beyond. The former is clearly anti-Hindu and the latter consisting of clowns.

A pox on both their houses.

The BJP seems to consist of clueless people like LKA, troubled Sadhvis like Uma and others whose collective IQ strains to exceed 100.

I am more and more convinced that India needs a new grass roots party like the Turkish Justice and Development Party created by Tayyip Erdogan and Abdullah Gul. It rose to power through governance at the neighborhood level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_an ... 8Turkey%29

Rudradev, you have the intellect and capacity. Would you consider starting a new thread that maps what a similar movement in India might start out with?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 21 Dec 2010 04:57

Rudradev wrote:Indian news channels have not been far behind in taking up the "anti-Hindu-terror" crusade. Make no mistake, a Crusade is exactly what this is. And it has nothing to do with "terror" at all.

A story run on Headlines Today only minutes after the NaMo/Uma Bharti response to Rahul Gandhi's statement, paraded bullet-pointed text asserting atrocity after atrocity as having been committed by "RSS-linked groups"... including Samjhauta, Mecca Masjid, Ajmer Sharif, and plots for many more. None of these were qualified by the adjective "alleged"... they were simply stated as fact.

You have the answer in this post for your previous post. BJP is running in complete enemy land as far as these things are considered. It is not just the RG or DS. They have the entire media, and also disco-generation of urban India that goes into twists of fashionable abuse. The traps are set in such a way where you either walk or does not get in. It is like abhimanu's padma vyuh. They paid very heavy price by walking into it. Actually being silent they will not lose anything. Just the English media will bark a while and that's it.

However, I agree with brihaspati's and your posts that something has to be done in response. I don't know how and who should.

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 21 Dec 2010 06:30

^^^ NaMo the old villian should re-enter and teach these secularists a lesson. He can sway public opinion. But the political situation is such that it will not be wise and not pay any political dividends. Only NaMo can take this rhethoric and drive a hole in their political agenda. But this is just a diversionary attack and we should not fall for this diversionary attack and unleash NaMo. We may blunt this attack but the final assault from Congress will then become lethal and very difficult to handle. We should concentrate on corruption, price rise and governance

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 21 Dec 2010 07:33

Just as Gandhi's assasination provided a cover for anti RSS operations, sections of Congress want to use "terror" charges to go after RSS.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Dec 2010 08:00

csharma wrote:Just as Gandhi's assasination provided a cover for anti RSS operations, sections of Congress want to use "terror" charges to go after RSS.

An old man told me once that in 47 all the rooftops were flying Kesri and Congrersi flag was no where to be seen. People knew who have scarificed to win the freedom. Then came along Bappu's untimely departure and Chacha became the heir of Gandhi's hard work and legacy . They are still playing the old game but no Gandhi to be eliminated to shine the fortune of royal Gastopodas of Dilli.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Dec 2010 08:36

It could very well be that prince etc actually believe in this hindu terror crap because that's the filtered opinion they get and they can't think outside of that. Hindu terror is now an accepted fact with these people and the majority of English media.