Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

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Vikas
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Vikas »

How would someone know about the Navy seals which took part in the mission ? After all it is not in public knowledge so why expression of concern by those involved in the Ops.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

I've wondered what it must feel to be the guy who actually shot and sent OBL to Jahannum (hell).

wow! Must be a great feeling.

But I doubt that the world will ever know his name.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Vikas »

Gagan wrote:I think the next to go will probably be an Al Q no. 3 like previous times.

Then Mullah Omar will kick the bucket.

I don't think that the Pakistanis will dare a big terror strike now. But a bomb blast series would be on.

shyamd mentioned that India has deployed on the border? Anticipating something?
GaganJi, OBL was a terrorist and was opposed by KSA itself. So his death went without any event in major Islamic countries. Fun would start when Mulla O meets his maker by US forces. He is Afghan, Amir-ul-Momeen and not assumed to be involved in any terror activity against western world. Once he is bumped off, that might cause some reaction in Paki world. Rest of the Islamic world cares 2 hoots for Non-Arabic/Persian leaders or their death.
Never count on Pakistan and its non state actors. If they were such Einstein, they would not be in the $hit hole that they are in though the action not necessarily be against India. Other targets too are pretty tempting. With MMS, every Paki can bet that there won't be any reaction other than few more dossiers so that would hardly serve the purpose.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

Saar,
WE think that OBL was a terrorist.

The abduls in Pakistan, the Middle East, North Africa think he was a Herrow.
OBL is several steps higher than Mullah Omar for the abduls.
Pakistanis as aspiring Ummah Leaders can't be unmindful of the feelings of the rest can they?

I think that the Pakistanis are too shocked to react right now. We will have to wait for them to come out of this shock. Then we will be treated to their full spectrum of bigotry.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Rangudu »

Guys,

Read this

Larry Johnson is ex-CIA counterterror guy and is considered very credible. He says that:

* It was not the courier/phone link that led to OBL but an ISI "walk in" i.e. an ISI person basically gave up the info. Could be a Shia perhaps?

* They knew from Day 1 that it was an ISI safehouse

* CIA higher ups were very skeptical about this info but Pannetta wanted to follow up and ordered the surveillance unit to report directly to him

* Obama's leftie political advisors did not want to do anything but Hillary and Pannetta pushed hard and essentially forced Obama to say yes. Obama is known to basically avoid decisions, so if any group confidently pushes hard for some decision, he tends to go with that

Read more and enjoy!
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Vikas »

Gagan - Ordinary Abduls across Islamic world don't matter. It is what ruling RAPE thinks which matters and for them OBL was a terrorist and was trying to throw over KSA royal family which can be construed as Kuffar-e-azeem.
Mullah Omar on the contrary has led pretty uneventful life and is a local hence my reaction.

As far Pakis, I mean haven't they already shown all the faces and phases of their bigotry to the world. What more can they bring on other than killing each other.but wait..they already are doing that.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

Its most likely stuff Kiyani used to bring over for reading material while waiting on OBL.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Klaus »

Rangudu wrote:Guys,

Read this

Larry Johnson is ex-CIA counterterror guy and is considered very credible.
And he looks like he reads BRF! From the above article:
And who was behind this?

Leon Panetta. I have been critical of Panetta of late and must eat some crow
:D
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by pgbhat »

Klaus wrote:And he looks like he reads BRF! From the above article:
And who was behind this?

Leon Panetta. I have been critical of Panetta of late and must eat some crow
:D
I think it is a commonly used English expression. :-?
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by sum »

ramana wrote:Its most likely stuff Kiyani used to bring over for reading material while waiting on OBL.
I feel that just a couple of water-boarding sessions on Kayani and/or Pasha and 90% of US most wanted guys( 100% in Indian case) locations and bank balance will be in Unkil's hands.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by putnanja »

Rangudu wrote:Guys,

Read this

Interesting. That article included another link, which describes in more detail what Larry posted. Clinton definitely has more balls than big 'O' :mrgreen:
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by A_Gupta »

^^^ The mission simply had to go wrong, and Obama would have a Democratic challenger in the 2010 race (hint, initials H.R.C.). It is a heads I win, tails you lose situation for her.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by putnanja »

^^^ From what I read in a few reports, it appears that Gates and HRC have a good working relationship, and have pushed obama on quite a few issues on which he was either dithering or wouldn't agree. HRC, if I recall, has said he won't run for any public office after this term
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Nandu »

Just a Nature documentary on mountain goats. All halaal.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by SaiK »

AoA! waha-bi hai! is may tak leaf kya?
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ The mission simply had to go wrong, and Obama would have a Democratic challenger in the 2010 race (hint, initials H.R.C.). It is a heads I win, tails you lose situation for her.

Thats why he wanted one more helicopter as back up.

One of the regrets that Jimmy Carter expressed on TV shows was his failure to demand one more heli for that raid on Tehran. The rest is history.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by VikramS »

Heard in a forum that TSPA is planning a response to the events in Abbotabad.

Knowing their history, TSPA will follow a Look East policy.

I was sorry to hear about the TTP attack on the FC trainees. That is like killing your own brothers. They need to hit the TSPA/ISI combine in the PakJab heartland. The TSPA would not shed a tear for the non-Pakjabis killed in the FC blast. Who knows, many be they sponsored it.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

Congratulations Rangudu.

You were the first to say that it must have been an ISI mole who ratted out.
You did this on the 5th of May on your blog. I wrote a piece on BRF on the 10th (I hadn't read your blog until even later).

But guys, I was the first to say that they will find P*rn in the DVDs they have captured.

Now here is another prediction: 400% chance that they found a DVD of Hasina Atim Bum in there.
The CIA are finally found WMDs from OBLs lair. :mrgreen:
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by KJo »

The smear campaign has begun. They first claimed Osama tried to hide behind his wife, now this.

US is trying to damage Osama's H&D onlee to diminish his standing among the momeen
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

Yeah really,
What is with the TTP guys soosai bumming the FC? Aren't they all Pashtoons at the end of the day hain?

OK I see, the batsmen and bowlers are from the same team, which is why so many runs are scored.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

Wait till they release some romantic photos of OBL with his wives.
THAT'LL hurt his image.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110513/j ... 976919.jsp

US blow to Pakistan’s Afghan designs

K.P. NAYAR

Retaliation
Washington, May 12: The Obama administration yesterday dealt what it expects will be a severe blow to Pakistani designs to insidiously gain control of Afghanistan in the post-Osama bin Laden era as the Americans pull out of Kabul.

Under an Executive Order, which targets terrorists and those providing support to terrorists, US secretary of state Hillary Clinton imposed sanctions on the Haqqani network and its commander Badruddin Haqqani.

His two brothers, Nasiruddin Haqqani and Sirajuddin Haqqani, are already “Specially Designated Global Terrorists” under US laws.

No sooner had news broken out last week about Osama’s killing, a low key, soft lobbying campaign had begun on behalf of Pakistan in cities like Riyadh and Ankara in support of the Haqqani network sharing power in Kabul in the long run as part of a reconciliation process.

The Haqqani Network, which is a proxy of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence and operates out of North Waziristan taking orders from the more radical elements in the ISI, is seen in Islamabad as a protector of its strategic depth in Afghanistan in any future government of national reconciliation in Kabul.

The other guarantor of Pakistan's eventual remote control of Afghanistan would be the Taliban, which is already designated as a terrorist organisation by the US.

Under Clinton's orders yesterday, all "US persons are prohibited from engaging in any transactions with" Badruddin Haqqani. "All property subject to US jurisdiction in which Badruddin Haqqani has any interest is blocked," a state department announcement said. "This action will help stem the flow of financial and other assistance to this dangerous individual."

What yesterday's order implies is that any Pakistani hopes of including the Haqqani Network in the future of Afghanistan has been dashed "for now." No American, including America's covert operatives who strike dirty deals in messy situations to protect US "interests" can have any contact with the Haqqani Network under law.

However, in the past the US has been forced by changing political maps of the world to deal with outfits it had designated as terrorists.

In Afghanistan itself, despite the sanctions on the Taliban for its terrorist activities, the US has had to accept the political reality in recent years that the Taliban, or at least elements of it, will have to be accommodated in a future set up in Kabul.

Indeed, recently, Afghanistan's president Hamid Karzai, publicly held out a threat to join the Taliban out of frustration with Washington.

New Delhi has been extremely concerned in the days following the killing of bin Laden that Islamabad would soon go into overdrive to realise its dream of acquiring strategic depth in Afghanistan.

An objective of prime minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Afghanistan today is to get a first hand assessment of the lay of the land in Kabul in the post-bin Laden scenario in the light of such Pakistani designs.

Soon after bin Laden's killing, a top Indian official, briefing reporters on background, expressed New Delhi's hopes that the US will now keep the ISI out of its dealings in Afghanistan. Keeping the ISI out, meant, by extension keeping the Haqqani Network and the Taliban out of any future set up in Kabul.

The prime minister will also make an assessment today, based on his talks with Karzai and others, the chances of Americans fast-tracking their pullout from Afghanistan.

Yesterday's sanctions on the Haqqani network are viewed by intelligence sources here as US retaliation for the naming of the Islamabad Central Intelligence Agency station chief in the Pakistan media, suspected to be at the instance of the ISI.

Typically, the process of imposing sanctions on a foreign terrorist network takes about six months in the American system. It is possible that measures against the Haqqani Network have been in readiness for some time.

But the timing of Clinton's order, which came amidst a lot of pushing and shoving by the CIA and the ISI to create more space for each other in Afghanistan, was not lost on intelligence analysts here.

Predictably after the new sanctions, the US ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter, was summoned today by Pakistan's foreign secretary, Salman Bashir, who protested that the Abbottabad raid on the night of May 1 was an attack on his country’s security and sovereignty.

According to reports emanating from Islamabad the meeting was heated with Munter telling Bashir that Pakistan must account for bin Laden's long presence on its soil. There were differing accounts from US and Pakistani sources about what transpired at the meeting. :mrgreen:

Serious differences have also surfaced within the Pakistan government over giving the Americans access to bin Laden's widows. Pakistan's interior minister Rehman Malik told CNN and other news outlets that Americans will be allowed question the women.

But he has been contradicted by Tehmina Janjua, spokesperson of Pakistan's foreign ministry. Obviously with sanction from Bashir, Janjua has said that no formal request had yet been received from the Americans for meeting the widows.

She also said that the countries to which the widows belong will have to give written permission for such interviews to be granted.

Amidst such worsening conditions within the Pakistani establishment, Pakistan's prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani admitted in an interview to (italics) Time (unitalics) magazine today that "continuing to work with the US could imperil his government, unless Washington takes drastic steps to restore trust" among Pakistanis.

Explaining his plight in the interview, Gilani appeared to be pleading with the Americans to save his government. "I am not an army dictator. I am a public figure," the Prime Minister wailed. "If public opinion is against you (America), then I cannot resist it to stand with you. I have to go with public opinion."

This may be a reference to opposition leader Nawaz Sharif, who today called
for a judicial commission with the chief justice of the Supreme Court and judges from provincial high courts to inquire into the US raid that killed bin Laden
.

Sharif rubbished the military inquiry now under way by a mere lieutenant general. His demand may fray the alliance of convenience between the civilian government and the army which has been forged so that they can both ride over the current crisis. :mrgreen:

Not unsurprisingly, Gilani was not forcefully critical of the US raid which will feed into the belief that Pakistan knew something about plans to kill bin Laden. :mrgreen:

In contrast to his defiance in parliament on Monday, Gilani told (italics) Time (unitalics) that Pakistan "wondered why (Washington) went unilaterally. If we are fighting a war together, we have to work together. Even if there was credible and actionable information, then we should have done it jointly." :lol:
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Venkarl »

putnanja wrote:
Rangudu wrote:Guys,

Read this

Interesting. That article included another link, which describes in more detail what Larry posted. Clinton definitely has more balls than big 'O' :mrgreen:
wowww.....absolutely wowww.....that valerie reminds me of SoD in the movie Independence Day.....I guess Mr. Jack Bauer got a nice script for his next season

but seriously....if the guy was really from ISI.....what'd stop Larry & Ulsterman mentioning that in their articles? that'd really stirrup things in Pukestan....especially ISI's so called integrity will be publicly dipped in goat ka dung....
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by SaiK »

good digging rangudu.. that also shows the coverup on the guantanmo questioning techniques leading to obl.

now, why such an open cover up just for keeping the ISI-CIA facebook neater?
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Nandu »

It is one blog, linking to another blog, with no real attribution. Let us not start building a castle of theories on top of such flimsy evidence.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Tanaji »

The story about Obama being pressured may be true for all we know but that site is also pushing this book prominently

http://www.amazon.com/Gangster-Governme ... 521&sr=8-1

So make of it what you will
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Gagan »

Something else catches my eye.
Pakistan by outing the CIA station chief's name seems to be stalling US's access to OBL's wives.

I suspect this has to do with where all they travelled to with OBL.

I suspect that the name of Haripur, which came out when the wives were in ISI custody after the raid is not the full story.
There were reports of Gilgit, Chitral etc also as places where the ISI had safehouses close to military cantonements where OBL is supposed to have found refuge.

That Haripur is possibly a quick and dirty lie/half-truth that the ISI came out with, and they'll be bargaining that the other names don't come out.

They will also want to hide any facts about military doctors (like their army doctor neighbour who's suddenly missing since the night of the raid) visiting them to provide them with medical care. Some proof will surely emerge into possible ISI / military liason men visiting that compound that the wives might be aware of.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by SaiK »

also, wondering why would not the khans start using micro/nano-technology tagging and establishing advanced snooping techniques, having to deal with ISI operatives on 1-1 basis. The CIA has tremendous devices wrt this kind of intel.

they might have, and have more information that is not revealed yet. all classified.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by RajeshA »

Gagan wrote:Wait till they release some romantic photos of OBL with his wives.
THAT'LL hurt his image.
Yes there are a few of his wives with strapons!
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by saip »

Reg the p$$orn found, what can a poor guy do? I mean he has three wives quarreling for one missile. No amount of polishing would keep it ready. He also had herbal ****$ra with him. So many problems for a multiple married man!
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Ambar »

Gagan wrote:Something else catches my eye.
Pakistan by outing the CIA station chief's name seems to be stalling US's access to OBL's wives.

.
I thought they already got access to his wives a couple of days ago and found them "hostile" ( ISI must have trained them to be hard nuts) ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13394736

About the stash of p0rn, i was infact surprised that it took this long for the Americans to reveal this 'information'. In case of Salvador Allende and Noriega, pictures of 'p0rnographic material and Nazi paraphernalia under his desk' surfaced in American media within a couple of days after their deaths.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

Op-Ed in Reuters;
REUTERS COLUMN
Southern Asia's nuclear myths revisited post bin Laden

Friday, May 13 , 2011

By C. Uday Bhaskar


Thirteen years ago to the day, on May 13, 1998 India conducted its second nuclear test -- the first series having been conducted on May 11 that year.

Finally, after 24 years of ambivalence, India opted to become a state with nuclear weapons -- an SNW. Global opprobrium followed in intense measure and New Delhi with Atal Bihari Vajpayee at the helm as the Prime Minister was ostracised. The U.S. led by President Bill Clinton gravely warned India that it had dug itself into a huge hole by going 'nuclear' -- for Pakistan would soon follow suit and that South Asia would become the most dangerous place in the world.

However, contrary to the popular and assiduously nurtured view, held then -- and now -- India was only catching up with Pakistan and redressing the nuclear asymmetry between the two that had grown in Rawalpindi’s favour since May 1990.

Pakistan's army had acquired credible SNW status on May 26, 1990 and this development has been documented in rigorous detail by two respected U.S. authors, Thomas Reed of Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and Danny Stillman of Las Vegas Laboratory in their book "Nuclear Express" published in January 2009.

The authors corroborated the view held among some nuclear experts that China had tested a weapon design for Pakistan on May 26, 1990 and that this was part of a complex and deliberately tangled nuclear proliferation lattice among Cold War rivals that had its genesis in the U.S. nuclear enormity of August 1945.

Thus two myths have to be revisited. South Asia had become nuclear well before May 1998 and China, the first Asian nuclear weapon power (1964) had created a ‘southern’ Asian nuclear grid that enabled Pakistan and led to the A.Q. Khan nuclear Wal-mart.

Secondly, since 1990, Rawalpindi -- the GHQ of the Pak Army had become the sole custodian of Pakistan’s nuclear weapon capability -- and was introducing a very dangerous 'out-of-the-box' strategy that leavened nuclear weapons with terrorism.

In May 1990, the Pakistan army embarked upon a high-stakes gamble against India that utilised its covert nuclear weapon capability as a firewall to step up terrorism and low intensity conflict in the Kashmir valley
.

In retrospect, it may be averred that this was the period when the Pak Army introduced the concept of NWET -- or nuclear weapon enabled terror -- which was far removed from the pristine concept of the 'core' mission of the nuclear weapon that was predicated on the rectitude of the 'responsible' state that had deified nuclear deterrence as the one and only mission of the abominable nuke.

Pakistan had audaciously rewritten the nuclear rule book and was successfully pursuing a revisionist agenda which involved the redrawing of borders and wresting contested territory a la Kashmir. NWET was the means and while May 1990 was aborted for reasons that still remain opaque -- this strategy was adopted again in May 1999 in the Kargil War with General Musharraf directing the charade for the Pak GHQ.

For the U.S. and the world at large, the spectre of terrorism became a reality only after September 11, 2011 and Osama bin Laden (OBL) its more recognisable face and symbol. The worst case scenario was the exigency of the non-state entity acquiring nuclear weapons through a deviant state and using the same to advance a terrorist agenda.

Iraq became the target in 2003 and even at the time, more objective voices within the U.S. and elsewhere pointed out that like OBL in Abbottabad - the NWET elephant in the drawing room was the Pak army - but there were no takers. The true believers {NPA!}drew their certitude about matters nuclear in southern Asia from a different narrative and marched to a different drum.

The 'treasure trove' of data and information retrieved from OBL's mansion in Abbottabad may contain some definitive clues about how determined and close the al Qaeda was to the nuclear weapon or material and the degree to which the Pakistani state was complicit.

The 10th anniversary of the twin tower collapse in September 2011 was laden with multi-textured import for OBL -- pun unintended -- and NWET the most attractive and effective option.

OBL has been interred to a watery grave but the malignancy of NWET is a reality that has to be dealt with adroitly. The Pak army has created a virtual reality of cultivated paranoia, where it is the eternal victim of external perfidy, and Galahad-like valour as savior of the state and the Islamic faith -- a domain that it inhabits in menacing isolation.

Rawalpindi has to be weaned away from the nuclear weapon capability that it acquired in May -- covertly in 1990 and overtly in 1998 and the corrosive strategy it has chosen
.

And this can be done only if the many nuclear myths and related narratives apropos southern Asia are revisited with honesty and humility.


(C. Uday Bhaskar is Director of the New Delhi-based National Maritime Foundation. The views expressed in the column are his own. )
Excellent strike by CUB! Worthy of his guruji!
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by SaiK »

We should lobby with all countries to remove "southern asia" reference to pakistan, and make them as a terror la la land, where anyone is free to do special ops. This nuke terror will be the next, India can say: "we told you so!", but it may be too late before some millions of life is lost.

Better get this going right away..

perhaps this is a separate discussion topic ?
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

Please think over the meaning of CUB's article. He clearly links TSP nukes, OBL and TSPA.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by ramana »

These 72 versions of OBL's death and whether US informed and when the informed are quite intriguing. First time they said that after the US helis left TSP space they were informed. And a few days later they said after 15mins into the raid TSP was informed.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by RamaY »

Looks like they are still figuring out how they got OBL in Abbatobad. That cartoon where gila-nahi says he seriously doesn't know how OBL ended up in his bed applies to Massa too.

Looks like my (confidential) source is correct after all :mrgreen:
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Harish »

Is this a real photo of OBL's dead body?

Image
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by Muppalla »

ramana wrote:These 72 versions of OBL's death and whether US informed and when the informed are quite intriguing. First time they said that after the US helis left TSP space they were informed. And a few days later they said after 15mins into the raid TSP was informed.
The versions could be to help restore H&D of Pakis and could also to conceal some lies and also India specific.

Possibilities:
(1) Concludes that the nooks are also taken out like Osama. The cover may be the Bali bomber. The entire ops is to take them out in the name of this Bali bomber.
(2) If a smoke screen of "Pakis were informed" is not created then question of why did Pakis did not bombout India with 100 nukes that it possess. (assuming that Pakis would have known what's going on while the attack is underway). Some say Pak has no capability but I cannot imagine that situation as OBL being high profile
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan-2

Post by shiv »

Gagan wrote:I've wondered what it must feel to be the guy who actually shot and sent OBL to Jahannum (hell).

wow! Must be a great feeling.

But I doubt that the world will ever know his name.
Gagan - I have just finished reading a piskology of soldiers book. Chances are the man feels "i was there to do a job. I did my job"
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