Poll: Renaming of Pakistan thread (pls read and vote)

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 10 May 2011 15:58

Since Pakistan has not yet parted ways with terror, I see no reason to change.

brat · Post by **brat** » 10 May 2011 16:16

ManishH wrote:
Nesoj wrote: "Terrorist State of Pakistan (TSP)"
Yes. Simple and to-the-point.

+1 for TSP

pemmaraju_s · Post by **pemmaraju_s** » 10 May 2011 16:24

State of Terrorism/Terrorist Processing Outsourcing/Terrorist Processing State/Liberation of State Terrorism.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 10 May 2011 16:51

This is a chance to to bring delusion, terrorism and failed state together:

"Pakistan: Failed State with Delusional Ideology/Agenda of Terrorism"

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 May 2011 17:55

Whatever we do the words pakistan & terrorism have to be together for chacha to pick up.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 May 2011 18:22

(Pakistan ) International [Islamist] Terrorist Camp ( Of Pakistan )

Very few words to play with for defining Poaka-lota.

wamanrao · Post by **wamanrao** » 10 May 2011 18:23

Google/Search engines are the deciding factor. BR is no longer just a hangout for desis to vent. It's becoming more prominent amongst opinion makers and intelligentsia in many parts of the world.

Our influence arises out of the usage of English and the simplicity of the premise. "Terrorist Islamist State of Pakistan" makes perfect sense to everyone.

I would go further to ask members to drop board-isms such as "echandee" etc. which are not immediately clear in meaning to first timers visiting. Our language should be clear and lucid. I know we've had certain BRFisms percolating out to the media such as the now-famous "non-proliferation ayatollah". There is a reason this particular idea-meme succeeded. It is because it is a portmanteau of words people *already* know. So, we need more of that and less of Hindi/Urdu/Tamil/Telugu on the board. JMTP.

My point : It ain't broke, so please don't fix it.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 10 May 2011 18:53

I think a change is required but for Kabila or Kalifa or such terms that an average American potato farmer or redneck in Vermont cannot understand, should he find it in Google. They have trouble finding Alaska in the map. Jihad (thanks to Jihad Jane and other such pioneers) is just about the only non-English word usable in this context.

It would be nice if the the name makes a nice acronym that is even easier to remember...TSP is nice but meaningless in of itself.

Some suggestions:

Fanatic Barbaric Terrorist of Pakistan (seems logical but may be a bit strong for non-brf mujahid types)..
Jihadi Terrorist Swamp of Pakistan (drain the swamp is a often used American phrase)
Global Outpost of Anarchy & Terrorism - Pakistan (GOAT-Pak)

If I think of more shall contribute...

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 10 May 2011 20:08

^^^^wamanrao just gave me a fantastic idea! (IMHO -- thanks wamanrao!)

On every page of the ‘BRF Dictionary’ there should be the BRF linking syntax that is needed to take readers to that page, so that when a BRF member wants to use the word ‘echendee’, for example, he or she would insert the linking syntax shown here inside the quotation marks, such as...

"[ url = http://sites.google.com/site/brfdiction ... sary/h/h-d ]'echendee'[ / url ]"

(Only he/she would do so without all the spaces inside the square brackets -- which I've included here for illustrative purposes).

Alternatively, BRF members should be encouraged to generate this linking syntax on their own (it is simple enough, after all).

This will accomplish three things. It will popularize the use of the BRF Dictionary and the terms in it, and will help everyone to understand the threads and these arcane terms better. Secondly, it will draw readers deeper into the BRF lexicon, because some people will inevitably click-through to the rest of the glossary. Thirdly, it will improve search engine rankings, because search engines will score BRF thread pages higher, because they will have more outbound links. As a corollary, the BRF Dictionary itself will also score higher, because it will have more inbound links.

I think BRF posters should be encouraged to make use of as many outbound links to the BRF Dictionary as possible, in order to serve the objectives outlined above.

BRF mods/webmasters: What do you think about this idea?

A FEW AFTERTHOUGHTS: I have already expressed my opinion that the words "Islamic" and "Islamist" should not be included in TSP-related thread titles, because it is based on the TSP's narrative and lends them the Islamic credibility they covet. I also don't think the word "militant" should be used either, for similar reasons. Call them "terrorist" or "extremist" or if you must, or call them "Jihadi", but not "Islamic" or "Islamist". ALSO, I can see people's point about removing the term "State" (even though the TSP is a "State Sponsor of Terrorism", which is a legalistic term that has some weight, and which certainly applies). While I myself am inclined to support the use of the word "State", if this absolutely must be done away with; I would suggest instead to use either the word "haven" or "hub", as in "Terrorist Haven of Pakistan" or "Terrorist Hub of Pakistan", which would both include the two most important terms in this branding exercise, being "Pakistan" and "Terrorist". These two terms are essential. Also, once again, I'd like to underscore the importance of sticking with English exclusively in thread titles. JMT

(ONE LAST THING: What the H-E-double-hockey-sticks does "CT" stand for? It is not in the BRF Dictionary, and the phrase 'counter terrorism' does not fit with the apparent usage. Please advise. Thanks, RK)

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 May 2011 20:17

CT means conspiracy theories. Eg: Osama is not dead onlee. I saw him playing poker with Elvis in Juhu beach etc.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 May 2011 20:36

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: (ONE LAST THING: What the H-E-double-hockey-sticks does "CT" stand for? It is not in the BRF Dictionary, and the phrase 'counter terrorism' does not fit with the apparent usage. Please advise. Thanks, RK)

Now it is in the dictionary.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 May 2011 20:52

Militarily Administered Terrorist Areas {MATA for short}

A rough draft explaining what MATA is....

MATA prior to 2011 was called Pakistan. However, the World recognized what the areas truly represented - An area tyrannized by a military elite. The military elite colluded with various foreign powers, chiefly USA, to survive and drain the natural and human resources of these vast areas. The military in order to emotionally unite the oppressed humans used India as a bogey man. In 1948, this establishment managed to wrest military control of an Indian State and shoved the humans into more misery. MATA is home to several ethnic tribes and sub-cultures. As of 2011, people in these territories are fighting the military elite to gain the basic human right to life, political and cultural freedom. The military elite hosted a virulent form of political Islam on to the unsuspecting population, spent 10 times more on military than health, hosted terrorist camps inside these territories, provided services to any foreign power that was ready to pay thereby causing health, economic and political crisis in these areas. The World is working to redraw the boundaries and reduce the human suffering caused by the military elite.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 May 2011 21:14

Pakhandi (Pak H&D)?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 May 2011 21:18

Arrey saars... this new name should make sense to mango aadmis outside this forum also, no? No point in choosing a name which is MBTB (more BRFite than a BRfite himself).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 May 2011 22:23

Pakistan: Nuclear Terrorist Kabila

We need Pakistan - to associate the Kabila with a geographical location. Kind of coordinates for future geronimo-Ops
We need Nuclear - to raise the Terror alert exponentially
We need Terrorist - to illustrate the mindset
We need Kabila - to illustrate the supporting structures

We need to change the name of the thread to take our readership to the next level of consciousness.

JMHT

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 10 May 2011 23:05

Amreekistan might be a good name?

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 10 May 2011 23:16

###How about "Begger terrorist state of pakistan"
###Military own/run state of pakistan
###terrorist heaven state of pakistan
##Place where al-quida finds safe heaven(place alquida finds safe heaven)

RSoami · Post by **RSoami** » 10 May 2011 23:52

How about `Pakistan - Terrorist training centre`

I still cant vote

Khujli sey main mar hi jaaoonga!
Regards

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 11 May 2011 00:14

I am not sure that there is enough clarity on any new objectives that the owners, moderators or members here may have to justify a name change.

For example: Is there a need to target google searches more effectively? Are we trying to target a new online demographic? Is there a new reality in Pakistan that needs to be described?

How will a name change accomplish these more effectively, if these indeed are our objectives?

I am not saying BR does not have or should have new objectives, just that a change in name (something not to be taken lightly) should accomplish stated objectives efficiently.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 11 May 2011 01:01

Bhyphor EVMs being used for nefarious activities ?

I'm not a fan of name change but if at all the gurus of the forum have decided for a name change then here is my 2 asharfis

Pakistan :Nuclear proliferating terrorist islamist genocidal basket case banana republic of cousin marrying, sister f0rnicating, goat buggering cave men

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 11 May 2011 01:29

/ thread.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 May 2011 01:45

Consistency is priceless, and not to be underestimated, IMO

I know at least two US senators, and a few US congressmen who understands right away when TSP is use.

Even http://www.abbreviations.com/TSP
has this definition..

Even the French Philosophers use the term:French Philosopher Quote on The Terrorist State of Pakistan (TSP)

The well-known philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy wrote last week in an op-ed in the French daily, Liberation:

“The world in general and more particularly the United States are discovering what many observers were shouting themselves hoarse since years: if there is a rogue State today amongst the rogue States, if there is a State at the same time despotic, terrorist, eroded by fundamentalist Islam, and marked with the seal of a distressing fragility, it is Pakistan

Kid you not, one of the funny uses, I once heard "TSP" from some one from TSP. (Long story but the person though that it meant "Top Supplier of Pakistan")

My vote is Keep it simple - TSP.. Brand name has its value.

Heck even Pakistan today can't resist the headlines such as:
TSP count rises alarmingly in Lahore, Islamabad, Pindi

ISLAMABAD - With TSP's in the air in Lahore, Islamabad and Rawalpindi exceeding the WHO standard by 4.4 to 7.5, the Pak-EPA) has failed to maintain air quality control....

Don't forget, even fertilizers.com has this ad:
Fertilizer Suppliers - TSP Fertilizer in Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 May 2011 05:47

Clearly there is overwhelming support for status quo.

But I must point out that some of the reasons for maintaining status quo are shaky at best, The idea that "English speaking peoples" will not understand something and fail to click is, in my view an American centric view that fails to explain how "TSP" is hardly a popular abbreviation.

After a decade of calling Pakistan "TSP" that is no more popular than "Kabila" on a Google search. Both do not make it to page 1. But nobody on BR fails to understand the terror-connection. BR's titles are relevant to BR - not so much the world. Calling Pakistan is terrorist state is now preaching to the choir. Nobody needs convincing - but I would say that a large number of people who come to BR are still aware of the way the military has positioned itself to govern while maintaining a facade of "democracy". The Pakistan military is particular problem that we need to separately address with teh feeble power in our hands (as forum members). One method is to change a name. And if the name does not work it can be changed to something else or back top the original. Calling for a "freezing" of the current name is IMO a desire to sit in a comfort zone when we really should be moving

I am not saying that the word "Kabila" should be used if that is found objectionable - but the idea of a name change is not merely to get some unknown Americans to click on the link. BR's words do not even make it to page 1 of Google when it comes to Pakistan. The object is to make Indians and others who frequent Bharat Rakshak get used to the idea that the Pakistani army needs special attention for the way it functions. While we on BRF were among the first to spred the word among mango Indians that Pak is a terror nation we must move ahead and popularise the meme that the Pak army is a special problem within terrorist Pakistan.

Come on folks. Have a rethink. Re voting is allowed.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 11 May 2011 08:16

Pakistani Undertaking of Khalifa Establishment ... PUKE .. very appropriate.

niran · Post by **niran** » 11 May 2011 09:49

them arguing Indics! can't decide on a name without debate of almost 100 posts.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 11 May 2011 10:59

if the idea is for bots to pick up the thread for searches, the current name is better.

Voted -vely.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 11 May 2011 11:43

"Pakistan - Terror Incorporated"

... or...

"Pakistan - Terror Unlimited"

... or...

"Pakistan - Terror Central"

... or...

"Pakistan - Worldwide Terror"

... or...

"Terror Exports of Pakistan"

... or the classic...

"Terrorist State of Pakistan"

Just to reiterate; 1] all English, 2] no mention of "Islam" or "Islamic" (for political reasons, but also so as not to overlook the role of Pakistan WRT Khalistanis), 3] all options include "Terror/Terrorism" and "Pakistan".

JMT

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 May 2011 11:57

Terrorist State of Pakistan is just fine IMHO.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 May 2011 13:14

The most important reason that would justify a name change is if we can push the notion that it is not just that Pakistan is swarming with terrorists, because most of the world is already aware of that, but rather that Pakistan is being ruled by a terrorist army.

Nobody should doubt that the Pakistani Army cannot be used to restrain terror, that Pakistani Army is a two-faced double-crossing treacherous viper!

If one can convey that message in the title of the thread, while keeping the title search engine optimized, then one should go for a new name, otherwise there is no need.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 May 2011 13:38

Baikul wrote:
just that a change in name (something not to be taken lightly)

Not really. When I was adminullah the threads used to change more often and I have myself played with a lot of new names. We started with Pakistan news and discussion. Went on to Terrorist State of Pakistan. There was a hue and cry from the secular sentiment of thie forum when we included the words "islamic Republic" - yes it was my inclusion, but I pushed it through because "islamic Republic of Pakistan" is the real name of Pakiland. It was even Terroristan for a short while. We seem to be stuck in a rut now.

This is the first time I am calling for a name change after my adminullah days ended. We need a name change.

Google will pick up any thread. If it has the word "Pakistan" and "terror" the two are already linked. But the worrd "Military" and terror need to be associated with Pakistan somehow. Status quo is NOt the way to do that.

A name change is not a big deal. We ned a name change. Lots of good suggestions have been made that do not include the word "Kabila"

Lalmohan's "Pakistan: the Military-Jehadist-Mafia Complex" sound good to me
Dilbu's "Terrorist Military State of Pakistan" also does the trick.
A modification of SwamyGs "Militarily Administered Terrorist Areas" of Pakistan?

Pakistan, military and terrorism need to come together.

"Pakistan Jihadist Military Terror inc?"
Pakistan-Jihadist-Military terror complex?

Come on folks. We need bots to see a new updated association without discarding the old if that is what is desired. We have had the current name for far too long.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 11 May 2011 14:08

'Pakistan:Republic of Military with Terrorists ' or simply

'Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistani Military'

Both these reach to similar meanings

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 11 May 2011 14:16

Pakistan will always be a republic of terrorists so we can call it

Pakistan:Islamic Republic of Terrorists (PIRT=dirt)

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 11 May 2011 23:08

^^^Dear shiv,

shiv wrote:… some of the reasons for maintaining status quo are shaky at best, The idea that "English speaking peoples" will not understand something and fail to click is, in my view an American centric view that fails to explain how "TSP" is hardly a popular abbreviation.

Actually, it isn’t like that at all. Rather, the way search engines work is based on ‘keywords’, and English-language keywords are tremendously favoured by Google and other major search engines. The fact is that if someone goes to Google and types “Pakistani Terrorist Cabal” the results they will see will not include pages where the word “Cabal” is missing, in lieu of “Kabila”. Moreover, odds are relatively few people around the world will type-in “Pakistani Terrorist Kabila” who were not already looking for a BRF thread, and knew it. It is for this reason that I have argued that all the words in thread titles should be in the English language.

Let’s not get nationalistic about it: After all, English is an Indian language too, and in the past couple of decades, some of the most splendid English language literature has been penned by Indians or Indian-origin writers.

shiv wrote:After a decade of calling Pakistan "TSP" that is no more popular than "Kabila" on a Google search…. nobody on BR fails to understand the terror-connection….. Calling Pakistan is terrorist state is now preaching to the choir. Nobody needs convincing - but I would say that a large number of people who come to BR are still aware of the way the military has positioned itself to govern while maintaining a facade of "democracy". The Pakistan military is particular problem that we need to separately address… One method is to change a name. And if the name does not work it can be changed to something else or back….. Calling for a "freezing" of the current name is IMO a desire to sit in a comfort zone when we really should be moving

…… The object is to make Indians and others who frequent Bharat Rakshak get used to the idea that the Pakistani army needs special attention for the way it functions. While we on BRF were among the first to spred the word among mango Indians that Pak is a terror nation we must move ahead and popularise the meme that the Pak army is a special problem within terrorist Pakistan.

Although I had initially voted for the status quo “Terrorist State of Pakistan”, shiv’s arguments above have won me over. I now think that a name change for the TSP-focussed thread could yield benefits at this particular juncture in the sordid story of the TSP. Before I offer new proposals, I would like to reiterate my personal basis for title selection, if it were entirely up to me (and I know it’s not – actually I rather hope that the ‘top contenders’ will feature in another poll here on BRF).

1. All English language, for the purposes of ‘SEO’ (search engine optimization), and also for the greater promulgation of the intended meme (which is very important – more so for non-BRF-initiates).

2. No mention of "Islam/Islamic" (to deny them that ‘fig leaf’, and for political reasons, but also so as not to overlook the role of the TSP WRT Khalistanis and Naxalites, not to mention the likes of ‘D-Company’). ***NOTE TO ADMINS: ‘D-Company’ should be explained in the BRF dictionary.***

3. All options should be built on the established brand including the words "Terror/Terrorism" and "Pakistan/Pakistani".

4. To the greatest extent possible, the thread title should seek to divide India’s enemies/adversaries/opponents WRT the handling of the TSP – while bringing together like-minded/allies/partners who would like to see this danger diminished and destroyed – not only for the benefit of India, but for the sake of the whole world. If this effort is going to bear the maximum benefits that it can, it must clearly underscore the dangers posed to the whole world, not just to India. Of necessity, under ideal(istic?) circumstances, this would even include forward-thinking PakLurks.

5. IMHO, the thread title length limit should be longer than 60 characters. If the BRF ‘Powers that be’ can extend the thread title character limit, that would be best, IMHO. In fact, this issue should be formally settled and announced before we all try to bust our heads to come up with titles that are 60 characters or less (which seems to be the current limit). ADMINS, PLEASE LET US KNOW: How long can a thread title be?

6. The perfect thread title will fit with all of the above, plus play-up the following themes/facts; i) the root of the problem is the TSPA, which; ii) draws sustenance from US/UK/Western Military Aid (ignoring China), while; iii) sheltering under a nuclear weapons umbrella (the real implication of the TSP’s “too big to fail” status among Western observers), which includes; iv) trafficking in nuclear materials (the greatest danger, in the opinion of Western Observers), plus; v) trafficking in narcotics (which is decidedly un-Islamic, let no one forget), thereby, altogether; vi) embodying the epitome of a ‘Rogue Nation’.

And now for my suggestion, in view of all of the above:

“Pakistani Army Complex - Terror-Nuke-Narco Nexus of Evil” which can be abbreviated from these 56 characters as “PACTN3oE”.

This is admittedly rather cumbersome, but yet the suggested abbreviation does bring a certain cache, because it does roll off the tongue, as in “Pact enn three oh eee”. (I can only hope our esteemed enqyoob doesn’t take any offense, as no inference is intended by the “N3”, most assuredly.)

I like this suggestion for the following reasons (stated here in no particular order).

>>> It focuses on the TSPA, rather than the entire country, and so it might find favour among those (few?) ordinary Pakistanis who would rather their country were more like India – democratic, increasingly-prosperous, safer, more progressive, etc.

>>> The word “Complex” is immediately more nefarious-sounding than “State” ever was.

>>> The threats posed are clearly in the title, encompassing “Terror-Nuke-Narco”; with “Terror” carrying more weight among Indians, “Nuke” carrying more weight among Americans (perhaps), and “Narco” carrying more weight among Russians/Europeans and Muslims (owing to large numbers of drug addicts hooked on AfPak-origin heroin, in the former case, and for religious reasons, in the latter case – remember, “divide your opponents”). Also, the ‘Narco’ angle re-ignites the DCH saga, which inevitably embroils the USA, with only the slightest bit of scratching beneath the apparent surface (or more precisely, the ‘façade’). ***NOTE TO ADMINS: ‘DCH’ should be explained in the BRF dictionary.***

>>> During the Bush-43 administration, one of his speechwriters named ‘David Frum’ famously (and idiotically) coined the phrase “Axis of Evil”, which ostensibly included Iraq, Iran and North Korea (ignoring the fact that Iraq and Iran had been at war, and North Korea had only tangential dealings with these two countries, when compared to NoKo’s dealings with Pakistan). My suggestion above, includes a play on this mistaken moniker “Axis of Evil” with the very accurate “Nexus of Evil” – which has great potential to really catch-on in the MSM, IMO. Indeed, the most important aspect of my suggested title above, may proove to be the “Nexus of Evil” part of it.

Once again:
Pakistani Army Complex - Terror-Nuke-Narco Nexus of Evil
PACTN3oE

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 11 May 2011 23:16

Pakistani Army Complex - Terror-Nuke-Narco Nexus of Evil

Could be modified to

Pakistani Army - Terror-Nuclear-Narco Nexus of Evil

or

Pakistan - Terror-Nuclear-Narco Nexus of Evil

Anything to associate the paqcuis with commonly used words for negative connotations.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 11 May 2011 23:23

Sanku wrote:Kabila is too technical. Wont be picked by google name searchs.

"Kabila" (i.e., Qabilah) is Arabic, has a cognate in Hebrew, and found in English as "cabal" - easily understood.

Suggested name: Narco-Terrorist Cabal-State of Pakistan - the lair of the jihadist genie

This name change can bring the focus to the snakes within the patch of grass known as Pakistan. India has no beef with the mango abduls who are brainwashed and manipulated by the military, feudal and psychopathic religious overlords who took that part of the country hostage.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 May 2011 01:39

It's important we have "Terrorist State of Pakistan" . Why the need for Brand dilution or worse Brand confusion? Like someone suggested, why mess with success.

We could have "The Pure Islamic terrorist state of Porkistan".

I am open to adding/working in "Porkistan" , Nuclear black mail, satan etc somewhere in there. Moreoever, how many people out there knows "Kablia"? I don't.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 May 2011 03:01

TSP is still classic Old is Gold.
Onlee 2 editions possible are Islamist and Nuclear.
Islamist Nuclear Terrosist State of Pakistan.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 May 2011 03:35

^^ +1
do not mess up with the acronym TSP. if other terms have to be added add those around the words that make up TSP.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 12 May 2011 03:41

The word "Military" will not be good - it'll lend it a spartan aura.

Praetorian

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 12 May 2011 03:48

I voted for TSP - Terrorist State of Pakistan. It is Islamist, Praetorian etc but TSP portrays the essence of the land of the pure.

The name of the Pakistan discussion thread should be changed