India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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RoyG
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 15 Apr 2016 20:51

PHWR, MSR, and laser enrichment is the only route we should be taking at this point.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 03 May 2016 09:03

As I predicted, India will soon be throwing the bulk of its weight behind molten salt breeder reactors instead of AHWR. Good news for third stage.

https://inis.iaea.org/search/searchsing ... =45100369#

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Austin » 05 May 2016 10:12

Second Kudankulam NPP unit planned for June launch

http://in.rbth.com/economics/cooperatio ... nch_590311

The Kudankulam nuclear power plant’s second unit is likely to be launched in June, the website of the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd (NPCIL) has stated.

The launch of the second unit of KNPP that is under construction in India, with Russian collaboration, is due in June this year. This is the beginning of a controlled nuclear chain reaction in the VVER-1000 second unit reactor and its transfer to the minimally controlled power unit level (CPU). This power level is sufficient to monitor a self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction. The transfer of the new power unit to the CPU is one of the most important steps in preparation for the unit’s operation.

In accordance with the intergovernmental agreement of 1988 and the supplement thereto of 1998, Russia is building the Kudankulam NPP in India. The first unit with a 1000 MW power station is reportedly the most powerful and safe in India and meets the most modern safety requirements. Power from the first KNPP unit flowed into the national power supply grid in 2013.

The Kudankulam NPP is located in Kudankulam town in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu.

Russia and India signed a general framework agreement in the spring of 2014 on construction of the second stage (the third and fourth units) of the nuclear power plants, and in December that year, they signed the documents enabling the construction to begin. A framework agreement on construction of the fifth and sixth units of the Kudankulam NPP is being prepared for signing.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 05 May 2016 13:57

We are almost into mid-2016. What happened to the FBR at Kalpakkam?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby prashanth » 05 May 2016 14:04

SSridhar wrote:We are almost into mid-2016. What happened to the FBR at Kalpakkam?


Waiting for seed fuel perhaps? I remember reading somewhere that they had to have an initial set of pu fuel rods for the FBR to start operation.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 05 May 2016 20:38

fbr was suppose to achieve criticality by now..

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SaiK » 05 May 2016 20:44

RoyG wrote:As I predicted, India will soon be throwing the bulk of its weight behind molten salt breeder reactors instead of AHWR. Good news for third stage.

https://inis.iaea.org/search/searchsing ... =45100369#


a better document is here
http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/uploa ... stract.pdf

but, never understood the 45% thermal efficiency -> in IMSBR
Last edited by SaiK on 05 May 2016 20:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby chetak » 05 May 2016 20:46

Gyan wrote:There does not seem to be any massive movement to order huge number of domestic PHWR reactors after Modi Govt came to power. I was hoping to see at least 20-30 new PHWR reactors in the range of 500-1000 MW being ordered by Modi Govt.

French Reactor costing may work out if they give us 60 year Euro loan with interest of Minus 0.5% per annum to balance out their costly reactors.


the frenchies will part with anything but not money or anything that can be converted to money on such a vast scale.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gagan » 08 May 2016 03:11

The site of the NPCIL 4x 700 MW PHWRs to be built in Haryana in Fatehabad Distt, next to Gorakhpur town.
Two reactors are believed to have started construction.

Image

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 08 May 2016 03:41

SaiK wrote:
RoyG wrote:As I predicted, India will soon be throwing the bulk of its weight behind molten salt breeder reactors instead of AHWR. Good news for third stage.

https://inis.iaea.org/search/searchsing ... =45100369#


a better document is here
http://www.thoriumenergyworld.com/uploa ... stract.pdf

but, never understood the 45% thermal efficiency -> in IMSBR


Not sure but if it is indeed the case it will give it a huge advantage over the sodium fast breeder. It will also be significantly safer and you can do on sight reprocessing and tritium extraction. Wonder if they have also started R&D on closed cycle gas turbine. May push the efficiency even higher.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Kakkaji » 08 May 2016 05:50

NPCIL 700MW is likely a lot more economical than the French or American mega reactors in terms of cost per unit of electricity generated.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Ashokk » 12 May 2016 23:17

China and Pakistan join hands to block India's entry into Nuclear Suppliers Group
Talking about the China - Pakistan grand strategy to stall India's admission into the NSG , well placed US sources who work with the NSG said that from all counts it does appear that China and Pakistan are coordinating closely to stop the Indian entry.

The sources pointed to the fact that when India sought an information session with the NSG Participating Governments (PGs) at the recent NSG Consultative Group meeting on April 25 and 26, where it would have made a formal presentation to the NSG Group in support of its membership, Pakistan requested for a similar discussion slot with the NSG PGs.

Sources said that even though Pakistan was fully aware that its request would be rejected, it made its application at the cue of China, in order for Beijing to look even-handed when it sought the rejection of both requests on grounds of parity.

Providing an insight into the China-Pakistan plan to stall India, sources say that Pakistan is now going to write to all the NSG PGs about its wish to join the group. This is being done in anticipation of an application by India for NSG membership at the forthcoming plenary session of the group in June.

The Pakistani application, added sources, is "just a decoy" for China to reject both applications on grounds of parity. China knows that Pakistan does not stand a chance at the NSG, and most of the states will reject Islamabad's application.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sukhish » 13 May 2016 02:33

china and pakistan are nothing in front modi's foreign policy. with muscular policy these threats will be taken car of.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ramana » 13 May 2016 02:53

Agree. I think its US ploy to let China do the rejecting.
What role Pak has in NSG? Zero.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 13 May 2016 08:31

Fuel loading begins at Unit II of Kudankulam nuclear plant - P.Sudhakar, The Hindu
Power generation in the second reactor of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Project is likely to commence before the first week of June as loading of enriched uranium fuel in the reactor began on Wednesday night.

Sources in the KKNPP told The Hindu that robotic loading of 163 enriched uranium fuel assemblies, each measuring about 4.57 meters and weighing about 705 Kg, began on Wednesday and the exercise was likely to be completed in 10 days.


‘Hot run’

“If it is completed as planned, the reactor will be ready for criticality, which will be taken up after getting mandatory nod from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board,” the sources said.

After preparing the second 1,000-MWE VVER reactor, being built with Russian assistance, for the ‘hot run’, the KKNPP started the exercise last year. During this test, the second reactor, its associated closed primary coolant pipelines, secondary coolant circuits, and the concrete reactor containment building demonstrated the strength and integrity prior to reactor start-up.

The reactor pressure vessel, the main coolant pipelines and every part of the reactor were tested during the ‘hot run’ by sophisticated robotic systems to ascertain whether these could withstand extreme factors as per the design specifications.

After an analysis by the Russian and KKNPP experts and the representatives of AERB at the KKNPP complex, the data obtained during the ‘hot run’ and subsequent inspections were forwarded to the AERB for its final nod for removing the dummy fuel assemblies and loading the 163 uranium fuel assemblies.

Since the experts were satisfied with the hot run data, the dummy fuel assemblies were removed and the AERB gave permission for actual fuel loading.

Safeguards

Officials added that this was the first nuclear power plant in the world where the post-Fukushima safety enhancement requirements had been implemented and were being operated successfully.

Russia is building the KKNPP under a 1988 intergovernmental agreement. Unit 1 of KKNPP, India’s most powerful nuclear reactor till date, was commissioned in autumn 2013 and was restarted after a scheduled preventive maintenance on June 23, 2015. India and Russia had agreed to set up six VVER-1000 type reactors of 1000MW each at Kudunkulam to be supplied by Rosatom State Corporation of Russia.

Russians have emphasised that theirs is the only active civil nuclear cooperation as nuclear cooperation with the U.S. and France has been repeatedly delayed.


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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby chanakyaa » 14 May 2016 03:40

ramana wrote:....ploy to let China do the rejecting.
What role Pak has in NSG? Zero.

+1

From the other thread, it seems like defense co-operation with India is being elevated to NATO -like level, but only if India can be forced/threatened to sign NPT, not that signing it matters, by indirectly using Chinese to create artificial opposition. China is as much a puppet state, may be bit more independent, as South Korea. It is unbelievable. India is willing to open its economy of billion population to the world, but at the same time being forced to accept terms others have shown complete disregard to....Hope Modiji can strike prudent balance. Tragedy of being part of WTO...

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Peregrine » 14 May 2016 22:51

US disagrees completely with China, says India ready to be in Nuclear Suppliers Group

WASHINGTON: China and Pakistan may not agree, but the United States believes - completely - that India is ready to enter the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG).

Hours after China defended its blocking India from becoming part of the NSG, the US on Friday said that India does in fact meet the missile technology control regime requirements for entry into the NSG.

In fact, State Department Spokesman John Kirby last night reminded the media that US President Barack Obama said as much in 2015.

"I'd point you back to what the President said during his visit to India in 2015, where he reaffirmed that the US view was that India meets missile technology control regime requirements and is ready for NSG membership," Kirby told reporters at his daily news conference.

Kirby's remarks yesterday about India's eligibility for the NSG came in response to a question about reports that China and Pakistan have joined hands to oppose India becoming a member of the NSG.

"I'm going to refer you to the governments of China and Pakistan with respect to their positions on India's membership," Kirby said.

US sources recently told news agency ANI that they are disappointed with Chinese tactics of "using Pakistan's non credentials with the NSG to settle scores with India".

China made claims yesterday that many members of the 48-nation NSG share its view that signing of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) is an "important" standard for the group's expansion.

They said that India's non-proliferation credentials can never be compared with Pakistan's, as Pakistan has a history of "selling Nuclear technology to rogue states like Libya". They point to the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, Dr A.Q. Khan, and his global nuclear trade.

The NSG is a body concerned with reducing nuclear proliferation by controlling the export and re-transfer of materials used to make weapons.

The NPT is an international treaty whose objective is to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons technology.

India has said it won't ever join the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state, because those weapons are integral to its security. In addition, India has maintained that the NPT is very discriminatory.

Aside from India, Pakistan, Israel and South Sudan are among four UN member states that have not signed the NPT.

In fact, China and Pakistan are closely coordinating moves to block India's entry into NSG, the group's sources have told reporters.

Beijing is using Pakistan's non-starter position with the NSG - as Pakistan, too, hasn't signed the NPT- to block India's application by saying that it would either support NSG entry for both India and Pakistan, or for none of them.

Last month, Pakistan prime minister's advisor on foreign affairs Sartaj Aziz said as much that China has helped Pakistan to stall India's bid to get NSG
Cheers Image

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gyan » 15 May 2016 10:06

Corrupt Indian Babus will continue preventing any Economic Action against China even though It has USD 70 Billion dollar trade surplus with India. I wonder why GATT did not prevent the economic measures and USA+EU vs Russia were able to sanction each other during Ukriane Crisis?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JE Menon » 15 May 2016 10:24

Interesting assertion Gyan.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 21 May 2016 07:06

“India’s Nuclear Options and Escalation Dominance” by Toby Dalton & George Perkovich:

Carnegie Endowment For International Peace

Since the early 2000s, Indian strategists have wrestled with the challenge of motivating Pakistan to demobilize anti-India terrorist groups while managing the potential for conflict escalation during a crisis. The growing prominence of nuclear weapons in Pakistan’s national security strategy casts a shadow of nuclear use over any potential military strategy India might consider to strike this balance. However, augmenting its nuclear options with tactical nuclear weapons is unlikely to bolster Indian deterrence in convincing ways. ………………………

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 23 May 2016 04:06

udaym wrote:
ramana wrote:....ploy to let China do the rejecting.
What role Pak has in NSG? Zero.

+1

From the other thread, it seems like defense co-operation with India is being elevated to NATO -like level, but only if India can be forced/threatened to sign NPT, not that signing it matters, by indirectly using Chinese to create artificial opposition. China is as much a puppet state, may be bit more independent, as South Korea. It is unbelievable. India is willing to open its economy of billion population to the world, but at the same time being forced to accept terms others have shown complete disregard to....Hope Modiji can strike prudent balance. Tragedy of being part of WTO...


India won't sign NPT. NSG membership is coming.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sanjaykumar » 23 May 2016 04:39

NPT- what's that? There's a responsible nation with second strike and anti-ballistic capability, one with anti satellite mechanisms on the drawing board, deploying its on Global Positioning System.

NPT has no meaning as currently constituted. India can smirk with some satisfaction.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby rgosain » 24 May 2016 01:43

If as seems likely China's opposition results in India being black-balled from NSG membership, could India make a case for taking China to the WTO. No one has actually challenged these cartels via the WTO, but it could set a precedent.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 24 May 2016 03:36

rgosain wrote:If as seems likely China's opposition results in India being black-balled from NSG membership, could India make a case for taking China to the WTO. No one has actually challenged these cartels via the WTO, but it could set a precedent.


I doubt it. Just the expected noise. India will roll in.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby rgosain » 24 May 2016 11:54

RoyG wrote:
rgosain wrote:If as seems likely China's opposition results in India being black-balled from NSG membership, could India make a case for taking China to the WTO. No one has actually challenged these cartels via the WTO, but it could set a precedent.


I doubt it. Just the expected noise. India will roll in.


I wished I shared your optimism. China is not waging this histrionic campaign against India unless it knew it had the support of certain European countries, and others such as New Zealand. What is almost certain is that China is working behind the scenes to ensure the election of HC this November, who is more enamoured of China as well the various Taqqqia cults.
My forecast for the June meeting are the following:

A) One or more Eu countries and NZ votes against India, in which case China can claim deniability
B) China votes against: no surprise there
C) China vote for india: loss of face
D) India is forced to make concessions to get a second class status : most likely

The winner in all of this is Obama, who has managed to see the BRICS crumble to dust thanks to the PRC.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Lisa » 24 May 2016 12:56

There is one more possibility, India can sign the NPT an a weaponized state. :D

(Evlyboldy happy even lizard!)

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby rgosain » 24 May 2016 13:23

Even less likely as it requires a security council and UNGA vote. Not possible.
In all likelyhood the NSG will fall if US industry feels that it is preventing trade with India.
What India should be doing right now is absolutely thrashing and traducing PRC's proliferation credentials past and present. Force them to vote against India in June.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gagan » 25 May 2016 05:46

NSG might have to wait for a republican to come to the office of POTUS.
The same goes for UNSC permanent seat.

India won't sign NPT, it is adhering to it in 'spirit' onlee

Meanwhile the economy grows. For me, the first step would be when the GDP becomes Japan sized - 4th largest onlee.
These things - NSG, UNSC will happen, it is a question of when onlee

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby rsingh » 25 May 2016 19:25

If China continues to be china...........may be it is time for another NSG group. All other parties join hand to abandon the group and join a new group same day. This is how China will learn onlee. Out of box thinking. As simple as that.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ashish raval » 27 May 2016 10:02

I am disappointed that we have not made headway into commercialising thorium based nuclear reactor and tell all other nations to f off. I would have thought modi would make this high priority and tell me nations that it will not be bounded by pollution laws if developed world is not able to share nuclear and solar technology with India..how hard it is to get ten geniuses out of a nation of 20 million+ engineers?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 28 May 2016 08:20

Mark C. Toner
Deputy Spokesperson
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
May 27, 2016 ................................

QUESTION: Jahanzaib Ali from ARY News. Sir, it is reported that NSG, the Nuclear Suppliers Group, meeting soon in early June to consider membership of India, that U.S. supports. So is the forthcoming meeting being organized by the U.S. or was it already on NSG calendar?

MR TONER: You’re talking about the Modi visit or the meeting of the Nuclear Suppliers Group?

QUESTION: I said NSG. NSG.

MR TONER: Look, deliberations about the prospects of new members joining the Nuclear Supplier Groups are an internal matter among the current members. I don’t have much to say beyond that other than that I think they meet regularly. This I not a specific meeting, I believe – not set up to particularly talk about this issue.

QUESTION: So does the – State Department confident that it has already generated a consensus in NSG in favor of India?

MR TONER: Well, look, all I can say is that during his visit to India in 2015, President Obama did affirm the U.S. view that India meets missile technology control regime requirements and is ready for membership. But it’s a consensus body, so we’ll wait and see how the vote goes.

QUESTION: So in the Foreign Relations Committee a couple of days ago, one of the senator says that guaranteeing exemptions to India for the NSG membership would affect Pakistan’s nuclear choices and it can produce further battlefield nuclear weapons. So the question is that, sir: Except giving pace to the nuclear arms race in the region, what really the United States is gaining in getting India into NSG?

MR TONER: Into the Nuclear Suppliers Group?

QUESTION: Yeah.

MR TONER: Well, again, it’s – this is not about an arms race and it’s not about nuclear weapons. This is about the peaceful civil use of nuclear energy, and so we would certainly hope that Pakistan understands that.

QUESTION: Sir, Pakistan also desires to become the member of NSG.

MR TONER: That’s right.

QUESTION: The United States support Pakistan for that?

MR TONER: They have made public their interest, and certainly any country can submit its application for membership. And we’ll consider based on a consensus decision.


Link here:

Clicky

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby disha » 28 May 2016 23:30

I came across this unattributed quote on wiki:

American General Leslie Groves would become one of Truman's most trusted co-workers through a series of events. In 1946 he headed the Murray Hill Program where they signed contracts with seven foreign governments in order to obtain Uranium and Thorium. He misled those governments to believe that the United States would be using these resources for other things. He made sure they did not suspect that it would actually be used to create Nuclear Weapons. With Russia in mind, Groves began to develop a virtual monopoly on nuclear resources. He did this because he knew that it would soon be public knowledge that the United States had been conducting research and experiments. Groves was aware that the U.S. no longer held this monopoly. Because of the threat to power the U.S. chose to bomb Hiroshima. Consequently, the Murray Hill Area would end because foreign nations understood how their resources were being used.


My question is., which were those seven foreign governments who supplied Uranium and Thorium? Canada/UK/Australia/France. That is four. Which are the other three?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby vishvak » 28 May 2016 23:48

Some of the Uranium came from Africa, in particular Congo and prolly SA.
Tracing the Congolese mine that fuelled Hiroshima
Also, see second result in this link link.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby disha » 29 May 2016 08:15

Thanks Vishvak., I do remember now that the belgian congo mine producing uranium was "sold" to US!!! And with your link it is evident that bootlegged Uranium is still leaking into the world market ...

Assuming Belgian Congo and S. Africa., there still remains one more nation! India!? Americans did want to clandestinely control the Thorium from India.

I do have a theory., implausible - but not completely out of the ordinary! Since India was under colonial British rule., Indian thorium may have found its way into US and helped US jump start its nuclear research!

Interestingly it was US that blocked India's entry into NSG and stymied India's use of peaceful nuclear energy.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 29 May 2016 18:02

On the FBTR at Kalpakkam, which was said to attain criticality last year,
A 500 MW prototype fast breeder reactor is in an advanced stage of completion at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu and will be operational next year, he [former AEC Chairman M.R.Srinivasan] said.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sivab » 29 May 2016 20:02

SSridhar wrote:On the FBTR at Kalpakkam, which was said to attain criticality last year,


SSridharji, that should be PFBR. FBTR has been in operation for 30 years.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby vishvak » 29 May 2016 21:55

disha wrote:I do have a theory., implausible - but not completely out of the ordinary! Since India was under colonial British rule., Indian thorium may have found its way into US and helped US jump start its nuclear research!

Interestingly it was US that blocked India's entry into NSG and stymied India's use of peaceful nuclear energy.

In the link in my post above, see the 3rd result too. Not sure though if USA could obtain anything out after independence. In this thread, there are several posts on exporting mineral rich sands.
From another thread,
viewtopic.php?p=1770624#p1770624
"Monezite" is stored, so doesn't look like exported to USA unless exported indirect.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby svinayak » 29 May 2016 22:29

disha wrote:

I do have a theory., implausible - but not completely out of the ordinary! Since India was under colonial British rule., Indian thorium may have found its way into US and helped US jump start its nuclear research!

Interestingly it was US that blocked India's entry into NSG and stymied India's use of peaceful nuclear energy.


There are information around this in strategic books
After India independence west made sure there was alternate source of zinc and various minerals from other countries.

Indian source for precious metals, nuclear material and various resources are sought after secretly by various western govt or their entities.Even PRC is into this now.


Now they are interested in the new source of precious metals from Indian locations which they want to exploit.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 30 May 2016 03:40

sivab, thanks for correcting.



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