India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Hiten »

the IPHWR-700 at KAPS-3 is encountering issues with cooling-ventilation . Operation halted on account of that.
KAPP-3 achieved the milestone of first synchronisation with the grid on 10.1.2021 and, thereafter, started injecting infirm power into the grid. Reactor power was raised in steps to 50% of full power. In order to ensure the effective cooling of pump room air, several modifications were carried out in pump room ventilation system. For implementation of this modification work, KAPP-3 was shut down from 28.4.2021 and start up activities would commence after implementation of modification works.
via https://www.spansen.com/2022/04/at-indi ... clear.html
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Cyrano »

Found this excellent source of info, on India and other N countries. Posting a link for future reference.

https://world-nuclear.org/information-l ... india.aspx
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

French President Emmanuel Macron is likely to visit India in early 2023,... ways to speed up the setting up of the nuclear power reactors at Jaitapur.
Image

Indian statement:
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vimal »

^^ This is something I had alluded to in another thread. The only way for self reliance on energy for India is to go nuclear and then rapid electrification of infrastructure.
Although, I thought India was technologically self-reliant for nuclear power plant.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vera_k »

This is a way to get some tech and integrate more with a large operator of reactors while doing so. Doesn't look like it will be a large part of the energy mix no matter what.

France’s Nuclear Reactors Malfunction as Energy Crisis Bites
Twenty-six of France’s 56 nuclear reactors are offline for maintenance or because of corrosion on piping that cools the reactor cores.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

There has not been a single instance where the EPR has been on time and even in ballpark of its original budget. Not in Europe and not in China.

We need a lot of nuclear reactors, but not sure if EPR is the answer. NPC/AEC still has not come up with a > 1000MW design.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by kit »

Tanaji wrote:There has not been a single instance where the EPR has been on time and even in ballpark of its original budget. Not in Europe and not in China.

We need a lot of nuclear reactors, but not sure if EPR is the answer. NPC/AEC still has not come up with a > 1000MW design.

Isn't the new trend for smaller high capacity reactors rather than 1000 and 1200 mw single reactors, clusters of 700 mw reactors might be more efficient and less downtime ? Happy to be corrected!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Cyrano »

China has made 2 EPR reactors work. But EPR projects in Finland and France itself are still struggling.

One of the main reasons is a huge lack of skilled technicians in various trades including welding, concrete work, N engg and systems integration. After the Euro greens killed N power strategy a couple of decades ago, France had literally stopped investing in not just maximising the life potential of its N plants, even reduced students and trainees intake in all N related fields ! And now they are trying to reverse the trend and when a lot of plants need to be serviced and made fit for a few more decades its realising there are hardly any people who know this stuff and can still do it in the pool of working population.

China succeeded because they took charge of all the "execution" of the reactor building work once the design was finalised with the French and China mobilised all the skilled technicians needed on their side.

Just a few days ago, the Finland reactor about to be finally made operational, but had to be delayed since some additional welding work was needed and EDF had no resources, they are contracting technicians from Westinghouse for the job.

So if India goes with a French EPR design for Jaitapur, we will need to have a large pool of very skilled resources to deliver the project like the Chinese did. Perhaps we can get some Russian or Ukranian workers as well if needed. If we give a turn key contract to the French, it will be a blackhole of failure.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by kit »

And the French reactors come with their share of problems

https://futurism.com/the-byte/france-cr ... s-reactors


The nuclear fleet in question, owned by the energy provider EDF, is comprised of 56 reactors, of which 26 are currently out for the count.

The timing couldn't be better for them !!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by JTull »

Tanaji wrote:There has not been a single instance where the EPR has been on time and even in ballpark of its original budget. Not in Europe and not in China.

We need a lot of nuclear reactors, but not sure if EPR is the answer. NPC/AEC still has not come up with a > 1000MW design.
Only domestic designs that India has ever commercialised are PHWR based on CANDU reactors with natural uranium. Typical >1000MW reactors are LWR with slight enrichment. I was hoping there would have been some ToT from Russians, but India seems keen on newer western technology. There are not many large-scale new designs in the works. Infact, some are developing transportable small reactors.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by kit »

JTull wrote:
Tanaji wrote:There has not been a single instance where the EPR has been on time and even in ballpark of its original budget. Not in Europe and not in China.

We need a lot of nuclear reactors, but not sure if EPR is the answer. NPC/AEC still has not come up with a > 1000MW design.
Only domestic designs that India has ever commercialised are PHWR based on CANDU reactors with natural uranium. Typical >1000MW reactors are LWR with slight enrichment. I was hoping there would have been some ToT from Russians, but India seems keen on newer western technology. There are not many large-scale new designs in the works. Infact, some are developing transportable small reactors.
indeed i was thinking along the lines of "compact" 700 mw reactors , 4 or 5 of them could potentially have better uptime and better safeguards than a couple of giant 1200-1300 mw reactor ? maybe those in the actual business could comment on relative risk and benefit
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by JTull »

I don't expect these small reactor prototypes to be ready before 2035. Most new investment is going into Green Hydrogen at the moment.

Reference
Small Nuclear Power Reactors
Rolls Royce Small Modular Reactor
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Vips »

India govt approves 5 sites for new nuclear power plants.

India plans to build more nuclear power plants to increase the production of clean energy, the government said on Wednesday.

The government has approved five new sites for nuclear power plants and given the financial go-ahead to build 10 700-MW pressurized heavy water reactors, the statement said.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by nash »

20 new nuclear power plants to be commissioned in country by 2031
According to a written reply by Minister of State in the PMO Jitendra Singh, the 500 MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor at Kalpakkam is likely to be operational in 2024, followed by two 1,000 MW units at Kudankulam in 2025
This is not very encouraging.What are the chances world may see commercial Nuclear fusion plant before than our own 3 stage of nuclear power.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by gakakkad »

nash wrote:20 new nuclear power plants to be commissioned in country by 2031
According to a written reply by Minister of State in the PMO Jitendra Singh, the 500 MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor at Kalpakkam is likely to be operational in 2024, followed by two 1,000 MW units at Kudankulam in 2025
This is not very encouraging.What are the chances world may see commercial Nuclear fusion plant before than our own 3 stage of nuclear power.
Doubt we will see a commercial fusion plant anytime soon . Even the latest much hyped announcement from Lawrence is decades away from working out . Personally BARC should devote a portion of there efforts on fusion . Some of the best papers related to low energy fusion came from BARC .
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

The one thing about fusion that was true 50 years ago and still is today is that its 50 years away in the future.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Anujan »

There are some advances in Fusion because of technology enabled by superconducting magnets and Machine learning.

In the former case, there are companies like commonwealth fusion systems that is trying to build a 140MW prototype fusion reactor by 2025

In the latter case, there are companies like TAE, which use beam-driven field-reversed configuration.

Progress here will be exponential if and when it happens.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Tanaji wrote:The one thing about fusion that was true 50 years ago and still is today is that its 50 years away in the future.
Figure, IMO, is "30 years" in future...Still used by many of us... even with the latest break-through.
As I put in the other dhaga -
- Recent news/break through is quite remarkable. No doubt about it. But it is wrt to nuclear weapons design etc.. how to use this as a producing energy is still far away, IMO... as I shared in the other dhaga:
-US government to share this technology with academia and fast-track commercialization.
- Team used 2.15 MJ (Mega Jules) of laser energy to compress a deuterium-tritium target from the size of a basketball to the size of a pea.
Output energy was 3.05MJ (+41.8%.)

- But they used about 500 MJ of energy into those lasers ..(So as I posted in previous post, the efficiency - if you calculate for "clean power" is less than 1%)
A good 1 minute video to explain the basic of the breakthrough..
A good explanation of recent fusion breakthrough .. about 1 minute video
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Duplicate post - deleted by author.
Last edited by Amber G. on 15 Dec 2022 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Vayutuvan »

Amber G. ji, your posts are getting "repeat" posted, i.e. instead of one post, the same post is repeated once more. Is there a problem on your end? Just a heads up.

There is ~1 hour timestamp difference between the first and the repeat post (at least in this thread).
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Avid »

Fusion is definitely promising.

Things to note: hundreds of megajoules went into producing the 2megaj lasers, energy cost of deuterium and tritium isn’t accounted for.

By no means am I denying promise of fusion. Just the distance yet to go.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

Atomic Energy In India: Past, Present & Future by Dr Anil Kakodkar.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

India gets a new head of its nuclear energy program in Dr Ajit Kumar Mohanty. A thoroughbred scientist comes back at the helm.... augurs well as India gears up to celebrate the 25 th anniversary of Pokharan atomic blasts
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Surprised that there is no post here ... one time it was the most hotly debated topic in BRF.. (I joined BRF around that time).

India became Nuclear Weapons state 25 yrs ago this day on May 11, 1998.

Dr. Anil Kakodkar, one of the top four scientists in the Pokhran Tests of 1998 reveals the inside story.

Must Watch, IMO.!!!:
((I know AK was *much* maligned character in BRF... some even called him Prof; MWWoW - there are still pages and pages of threads in BRF archives)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

What is MWWoW?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by drnayar »

Vips wrote:India govt approves 5 sites for new nuclear power plants.

India plans to build more nuclear power plants to increase the production of clean energy, the government said on Wednesday.

The government has approved five new sites for nuclear power plants and given the financial go-ahead to build 10 700-MW pressurized heavy water reactors, the statement said.
would be interesting to know if they come under safeguards !
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Tanaji wrote:What is MWWoW?
[Man Who Walked on Water]. I think "WoW' was coined by a UC physics professor, who no longer - as far as we know - posts in BRF. AK (and a *many* other Indian Scientists) was mocked in BRF..- pages and pages of thread people insisting that "it was all fizzle.". AK - from what he told me - was unwaver that he was discussed vigorously here -- and when he came to know about this he was slightly amused :). (I don't think he ever looked at those threads)

-----

Interestingly, FWIW, I remember that day in US very well. I was a coach to our state's math-team for a national competition so we(our team) were visiting Washington DC and events hosted at the capital by our senator (Glenn). The things on that day became rather busy (Our senator was one of the key figure in working with US India relationships and Sanctions etc). Government to Government relations between US and India took a very big downward drive. I did spend some time with the Senator (and lot with f his staff) giving my perspective. Thinking back, all things considered, I think those discussion were helpful.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by disha »

Amber G. wrote:Surprised that there is no post here ... one time it was the most hotly debated topic in BRF.. (I joined BRF around that time).

India became Nuclear Weapons state 25 yrs ago this day on May 11, 1998.

Dr. Anil Kakodkar, one of the top four scientists in the Pokhran Tests of 1998 reveals the inside story.

Must Watch, IMO.!!!:
((I know AK was *much* maligned character in BRF... some even called him Prof; MWWoW - there are still pages and pages of threads in BRF archives)
You have to be very clear Amber. What is "Maligned" and "Maligned" by who and why? BRF does get opinionated and you as part of BRF also have opinions, some strong and some very very strong.

Hence in a event that changed the destiny of the nation, it will bring out sharp opinions. From minimalists, pragmatists and maximalists and of course the ultra-far-left-liberal fizzleists (it is actually a kind of a horseshoe between ultra-nationalists and ultra-communists in a wider world outside of BRF, since some fizzle'ists wanted that narrative so India has the option to re-test, and this narrative came from the deep love for the nation and some wanted to use the narrative to mock the then Indian government and their narrative came from their deep love for the Mao).

The good part is BRF carried the discussions and brought different insights not available in mainstream media.

Also the Khulke site: https://www.khulke.com/roundtable/recor ... bf6488b12b is pathetic. It is not discussed here since first the reach of the Khulke site is very minimal (it has what 6-11 views so far, and 1/3rd are mine) and the main interview is not even loading.

Since you have so much inside access, please help them out by downloading it and uploading it on YouTube. Before expressing your surprise!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

Ah I remember now. Those were fast moving threads with interesting arguments on both sides. I stayed out as I am not a physicist and my engineering degree does not extend to compressing things with explosives…

In the end it boiled down to a single question: do you trust GoI and its agents.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Tanaji wrote:Ah I remember now. Those were fast moving threads with interesting arguments on both sides. I stayed out as I am not a physicist and my engineering degree does not extend to compressing things with explosives…

In the end it boiled down to a single question: do you trust GoI and its agents.
:) ... Yes, those were fast moving threads.

I do have physics background and formally studied nuclear physics (at graduate level) in IITK so am familiar in Indian context too. Interesting but perhaps not surprising to see it described "equal-equal" 'arguments' from 'both sides'. (Honestly there were some interesting points but also a lot of silly nonsense peddled as 'arguments')

Anyway, other than NYT editorial staff, and such usual suspects for those people who mattered - trusted GoI, its scientists etc.

Interview is quite good. AK was a key figure in 1974, 1998 and even in later in Nuclear Deal so obviously the perspective was worth listening.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Vips »

India working on small, factory-built N-reactors, nod for 10 under 'fleet mode'.

India is working on new technologies such as the small modular reactors that can be factory-built and help make clean energy transition, Science and Technology Minister Jitendra Singh said in New Delhi.

Singh, in an interview to PTI, also said the government had opened up the nuclear power sector for joint ventures with public sector undertakings but not for the private sector.

Small Modular Reactors (SMR), with up to 300 MW capacity, are flexible in design and require a smaller footprint. Being mobile and agile technology, SMR can be factory-built unlike the conventional nuclear reactors that are built onsite.

A recent NITI Aayog report said, as many SMR designs were under various stages of research, development and licensing in different countries, global regulatory harmonisation, developing the manufacturing ecosystem and bringing in public as well as private capital would be the key for growth of the SMR industry.

"We are already working on it. I think as the time comes, we have to move with the global world. SMR may become the order of the day. We are open to these new technologies and we are also adapting to them very fast," Singh said. The minister said for the first time, the Modi government had approved a proposal to build 10 nuclear reactors under "fleet mode".

The State-run Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) builds and operates almost all of the atomic power plants in the country.

In 2015, the government amended the Atomic Energy Act to enable joint ventures between the NPCIL and public sector companies to build nuclear power projects. "Earlier, they were not partnering with anybody. So, we naturally had constraints on resources, finances. Now, we already have two important partnerships with Indian Oil Corporation and NTPC. We have moved in that direction, though not yet with the private sector," said Singh.

Earlier this month, the NPCIL signed a supplementary joint venture agreement with National Thermal Power Corporation (NTPC) to develop two 700 MW Pressurised Heavy Water Reactors at Chutka in Madhya Pradesh and four 700 MW PHWRs at Mahi Banswara in Rajasthan. The NPCIL has also formed joint ventures with Indian Oil Nuclear Energy and Nalco Power Company Limited for expansion of the nuclear power sector.

India's current installed nuclear power capacity is 6780 MW and it plans to add 21 more atomic power generating units with a total installed capacity of 15,700 MW by 2031.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by rahulm »

India's first domestically built 700 MW nuclear reactor starts commercial operations in Gujarat

"The Economic Times article reports that India's first domestically-built 700 MW nuclear reactor has commenced commercial operations in Gujarat. The reactor, known as the Kakrapar Atomic Power Plant (KAPP-3), was developed by the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) and is a significant milestone for India's nuclear power sector.

The KAPP-3 reactor is part of a two-unit project, with KAPP-4 currently under construction and expected to be operational in the near future. The project showcases India's efforts towards achieving energy self-sufficiency and reducing its dependence on fossil fuels.

The new reactor employs advanced safety features and the latest technology to enhance operational efficiency and ensure the highest safety standards. It is expected to significantly contribute to the country's energy needs, particularly in the state of Gujarat, while also reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The completion and successful operation of the KAPP-3 reactor mark an important achievement for India in its pursuit of clean and sustainable energy sources. This milestone highlights the country's progress in nuclear energy technology and its commitment to diversifying its energy mix for a more secure and environmentally friendly future."
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Mukhi »

Gentlemen and the Enlightened ones and Amberji

For a non Physicist, what does 700 MV signify. How Do I understand the significance or impact of this. How Much electricity it produces and how much of a weapon’s grade plutonium comes out of it in the end. How do I understand the impact of this one Reactor on country. Please provide some Gyan.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by pravula »

As the size implies, it produces 700MW of electricity. Technically, it will be lower as it will operate less than 100%. The article says something like 93%. Can’t answer the rest…
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by drnayar »

Just a thought ., I would suppose the design capabilities to build SMRs would translate to building compact reactors for nuclear submarines ?
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

India's first domestically built 700 MW nuclear reactor starts commercial operations in Gujarat

Imagevia economictimes.indiatimes.com

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... s?from=mdr
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanatanan »

An observation.
Cooling towers are generally employed in inland site of an NPP. Cooling tower rejects the heat in the water used for Turbine Condenser Cooling in the non-reactor secondary system, to atmospheric air. The vapour emanating from a cooling tower is wet air (like a cloud) and is generally colourless or white in appearance. So depicting it in reddish or any other darker colour as in the image may give an incorrect impression -- attempted to be created by some journals -- that it is "dirty" and possibly radioactive, which it is not.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by pravula »

Seems like a sunset shot. Look at the towers…There is twilight.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Aditya_V »

I guess the idea is to take shot against the sunlight background to give it a dirty polluting look.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 91202.html

Keen to engage with India on nuclear test ban treaty
CTBT Organization executive secretary Dr Robert Floyd defends US on subcritical N-tests, would like New Delhi to have observer status on Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty

Reading between the lines, he has been told to get lost.
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