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India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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Amber G.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 02 Oct 2017 07:43

^^^ (Dr Bhabha with Einstein)
Princeton! Other two are Hideki Yukawa and John Wheeler!
And this Wednesday, as I am predicting, winner of Physics Nobel will be awarded to LIGO team (see physics dhaga)..and all above four will be happy to see this happen!

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2017 03:08

Richard Feynman was Wheeler’s student.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 03 Oct 2017 03:20

^^^Yes, and also he is the one who coined the term "black hole" :)

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 03 Oct 2017 16:03

Uranium supply to power Uzbek-India growing ties:

Economic Times

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 04 Oct 2017 02:27

Some interesting discussion in Physics and US/India dhaga.. but a short comment..
Mort Walker wrote:Richard Feynman was Wheeler’s student.

Amber G. wrote:^^^Yes, and also he is the one who coined the term "black hole" :)

BTW, Thorne (This year's nobel winner) was also his student.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2017 03:20

You’re right. Kip Thorne and Feynman were good friends. Too bad Feynman had to pass away so early. I really miss him. He made all the NASA people squirm during the Challenger investigation.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby disha » 04 Oct 2017 06:57

^^ Any insights on to Feynman on Challenger investigation?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 04 Oct 2017 07:43

*Extremely* nice book is "What do you care what other people think" by him about Challenger investigation (last chapter).. Feynmon's other most popular auto-biography book about his adventures related to Manhattan Project and other aspects is "Surely, You are Joking Mr. Feynman". Highly recommend these books.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby shiv » 04 Oct 2017 10:09

Another is "Genius" - a biography by James Gleick. I was recetly searching through all the Feynman literature I sould get because I recall reading somewhere about Feynman predicting the Hiroshima yield by saying that it has a 10% probability of yielding something as low as 1 kiloton , 20% of 5 kilotons, 70% of yielding 15 kt, etc Was trying to find that quote. Unsuccessfully

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 04 Oct 2017 19:41

^^^
I was not that impressed by James Gleick's book but it is very compressive.
Shivji - I hope you have "Six Easy Pieces" ( Essentials of Physics which does not require too much math taken from his lectures).. There is "Six not so easy pieces" by him too, covering some more subjects. (I gave that as a gift to my DIL, a medical doctor :) - it does require more math. )

For your trying to find the quote -

Good reference may be: famous/standard history of these events - Richard Rhodes "The making of the atomic bomb".
Another good source is from the historian of physics Peter Galison's article " "Feynman's War" (looking closely at what Feynman doing in those years)
A standard reference is Robert Serber's "Los Alamos Primer", which you can now buy at Amazon - for looking up some of the formula's used.

One of the work he did then was in formulas relating to criticality/efficiency (I think Bethe-Feynman formula remain classified for a long time - used to fine-tune critical mass

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Vips » 09 Oct 2017 01:31

Indian-American entrepreneur offers fast track mini nuclear reactors to India.

An Indian-American entrepreneur has pitched for fast track mini nuclear reactors, saying they are economical and could be constructed within two years. Negotiations on mega nuclear power plants with US companies Westinghouse and General Electric are either in doldrums or moving at snail’s pace.

“The new generation Small Nuclear Reactor uses light water technology to produce 160 MW and is the future of nuclear energy reactor because of its unconditional safety and economy,” Kris Singh, founder and CEO of New Jersey-based SMR LLC and Holtec International told PTI in a recent interview.

New Jersey Governor Chris Christies inaugurated a multi million dollar manufacturing facility last month in Camden. The state government had awarded a $260 million and land to develop an SMR construction facility. Singh, who came to the United States more than four decades ago and has multiple patents to his name, said the new SMR reactors require only few acres of land.

And because it is air cooled, it can be put in a desert, unlike the traditional reactors which requires huge amount of water for cooling purposes. Constructing each of these small nuclear reactors costs $1 billion. But if made in India, the cost could be far less, he said. “The Indian labor is cheaper so the construction cost would be less.

You should reasonably expect between 20 to 30% reduction in cost as we go forward,” said Singh, who earned his engineering from BIT Sindri, which is now in Jharkhand. The company has written a letter to the Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the SMR 160 with the offer to have it constructed in India under the Make in India program.

“You can build these reactors in large numbers and distribute them across the country,” he said arguing that such reactors can be a best solution to addressing the energy problem of India. Asserting that it is better to put five of these modular reactors than a large 800 MW reactor, Singh said his company is being considered for both the Canadian and British SMR program and is at the forefront of the SMR technology.

He said it will be much cheaper in price per MW and will be much faster to build. “We have also started Holtec Arabia for SMR deployment in the middle east countries. Many of these SMR parts will be manufactured in India and exported to Middle East,” he said. Holtec Asia, a wholly owned subsidiary of Holtec International, recently has finished constructing a facility in Dahej, Gujarat to develop components of Small Modular Nuclear Reactor (SMR-160), he noted, adding that this $100 million project is just a small beginning of his long-term plan of manufacturing in India.

Singh said this facility would initially export critical nuclear facility components including air cooled condensers, spent fuel storage and others to USA and other countries. Holtec expects the export to be $400 million dollars in a year or so. According to Singh, the proposed SMR 160 reactors are far superior in safety as compared to Large Nuclear Reactor in case of earthquake, tsunami or terrorist attack as the nuclear activity in their SMR is underground.

“In case of any disaster, it shuts itself for indefinite period, thus we call it walk away and unconditional safe,” he said in response to a question. Big rectors are a thing of past, argued Sanjay Gupta, SMR executive director. “Safety issues, excessive costs and untimely completion led to the financial crisis and bankruptcy of the makers of big reactors.

“I can foresee our small nuclear reactors being used as the cheapest and most reliable source of green energy worldwide,” said Gupta who has been in talks with Indian government officials in this regard. “We have already started the ground work in few countries including UAE, Canada, and Ukraine in this direction,” he said. Holtec has a back log of orders of $6 billion. From its Gujarat site, it expects around $470 million exports over next year.

“We plan to invest around $2 billion in South East Asia Corridor next few years and some of this can be in India,” he said. Responding to a question, Singh said while solar energy is another alternative renewable energy option, but small nuclear reactors like SMR-160 are a more viable and economic option.

“Solar definitely has the future, but solar is a you know it’s not a reliably constant source of power. If the sun is not shining the power disappears,” he said. Singh has his PhD in Mechanical Engineering from the University of Pennsylvania, has more than 70 technical papers, one textbook and numerous symposia volumes.

He has over 70 patents to his name. Over 120 nuclear plants around the world employ Holtec’s systems and equipment in safety-significant applications, many based on Dr Singh’s patents. He has donated money to develop the nanotechnology center at University of Pennsylvania and the center is named Singh Center for Nano technology. He also recently completed building 700 toilets in Bihar

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Amber G. » 01 Dec 2017 01:26

xpost
Construction of Bangladesh's first nuclear power reactor, Rooppur 1, has officially begun with the pouring of the first concrete for the VVER-1200 reactor's basemat. Work on the Russian-designed and supplied plant was ceremonially started by Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina.

India is close to sign its tripartite Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) involving Russia and Bangladesh for Rooppur Nuclear Power plant near Dhaka — Delhi’s first such civil nuclear document!


Link: Construction under way at Rooppur 1
India closer to signing nuclear pact with Russia, Bangladesh

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Avtar Singh » 01 Dec 2017 04:35

RR is also talking about small reactors

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... ctors.aspx

If India has built its own sub reactors, why cannot India design its own?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Sanatanan » 01 Dec 2017 11:12

^^^^
At the outset I apologize for this rather long response and request your patience to read through it.

My two cents regarding India and SMR:

1) Neutrons, particularly those having just the right energy (velocity) are quite hard to come by.

2) India needs to garner, save and use as many neutrons as possible for conversion of nonfissile Thorium to fissile U233. Because India has large deposits of Thorium, Th to U233 Breeders, when developed, would promise energy independence over a long time.

3) In any design of a nuclear reactor, some amount of non-fissile and 'unproductive' absorption / loss of neutrons is inevitable. For a few examples:

• 'leakage' out of the reactor core -- larger the core, lesser the leakage, smaller core has greater percentage of neutrons escaping into the reactor vessel walls and neutron shields;
• absorption in the materials of construction in the core such as coolant, moderator, various structural materials such as fuel clad; 'ash' in the form of fission fragments inevitably generated in the fuel that tend to compete and absorb neutrons thus depriving their availability for fission;
• absorption in neutron 'poisons' deliberately introduced in the core for purposes of reactor control.

3) Reactor designs, (particularly Thermal Neutron reactors) that use enriched U235 are wasteful of neutrons which can otherwise be more usefully used, for breeding other fissile nuclei such as Plutonium or U233 etc. SMRs and LWRs use enriched U, and as a result, are very compact, but are inherently more wasteful of the 'extra' neutrons (over and above that required for maintaining the chain reaction) that are generated in fission. One would like to have as much of these extra neutrons as possible for harvesting Pu or U233 rather than being 'lost'/leaked.

4) Following Dr Bhabha's reasoning, for India, which has only limited resources of naturally available fissionable nucleus U235 in Natural Uranium to serve as a source / vehicle of neutrons for conversion of U238 to Pu and Th 232 to U233, Canadian CANDU and India-developed PHWRs are ideal designs as nuclear reactors operating in the thermal spectrum, which in turn will be stepping stones later for Pu+U238 FBRs and Thorium Breeders (Fast or Thermal).

Having a larger core, use of Heavy Water (low non-fissile neutron absorption) as moderator and coolant, physical separation of cold moderator from the hotter coolant (leading to better neutron utilization), on-power refueling to periodically remove the spent fuel (in which 'ash' referred to earlier has accumulated more than an optimum amount) are some of the major reasons for better utilization of neutrons with this design. Simpler requirements of industrial infrastructure, and lower costs are added advantages. Lesser energy density in a PHWR core helps in having greater safety margins during severe loss of core cooling events. Of course, this line of thinking, posits that apart from mastering 'head-to-toe', the PHWR and its on-power refueling technology, an equally robust reprocessing technology is also developed and put in place to extract Pu and other fissile isotopes in the spent fuel for use in FBRs. I believe India has achieved these goals in good measure.

Keeping above in view, I feel, it does not make sense for India to mine Nat U (in India itself or anywhere else), spend energy in enriching it to concentrate the U235 isotope, use it in thermal neutron reactors and finally waste a fair portion of the neutrons produced during fission. India will for ever be dependent on importing Uranium to supply fuel for these reactors.

All in all, I feel continuing to pursue Dr Bhabha's Route 1-2-3 is the ' चक्कनि राज मार्गम् ' (wide Royal Road, as sung by Sant Thyagaraja) is the best suited policy for India as lot of advancements in this direction have already taken place. Development of indigenous land-based LWRs and SMRs (and even importing costly, big, LWRs) are sidetracks (' सन्दु ') which will take equal number of decades (as PHWRS did), besides diverting meagre available resources and hence should be shunned.

Yes, LWRs are perhaps an unbeatable option at present for submarines and other transport applications; but surely India will have only a limited number of these. At present, LWRs or multiple numbers of SMRs are not ideal, in India's case, for large-sized, land-based nuclear power plants.

Aside of the above, it may be mentioned that in a nuclear power plant running on the Rankine Cycle, the size / foot print of paraphernalia required for rejection of heat to the atmosphere from the condenser of the Turbine is much larger than the space required for the nuclear reactor itself. SMR people, while highlighting the small size of the reactor to be set up in multiple units at a location, do not say much about heat rejection requirements. Not likely to be possible in one's backyard, even for a single unit SMR of only a few MWe capacity!


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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gerard » 04 Dec 2017 17:54

Inder Gujral: an accidental PM, too decent for the job
Gujral admitted to having had a curious conversation with his Pakistani counterpart Sahibzada Yakub Khan. Sahibzada had come to India ostensibly to defuse tensions in those fraught weeks. But he said, as they walked down the South Block corridor, “Gujral sahib, this will not be like any of the decent, clean wars we have fought in the past. Your rivers, mountains, cities, will all be on fire, a fire of the kind you cannot imagine, and on the first day itself.”
This much I was able to confirm with V.P. Singh himself, on the record. The implicit, and shocking story is, that if India did have a credible, deliverable deterrent then, its armed forces had not even seen it. More likely, India did not. We can say with certainty that this is when India finally dropped nuclear ambiguity and pushed for full-fledged weaponisation. Whether the Pakistani nuclear blackmail then worked, whether it intimidated V.P. Singh’s weak government, and if so, into what, is what we do not yet know. It is one of the most important questions Gujral has left unanswered

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 04 Dec 2017 19:37

It's hard to believe that India had no nuclear deterrent in the period of 1992-1997. The lowest estimates from those days put the number at about 30 " Hiroshima type" devices. And the upper figure would be 100, probably not credible. What was missing was a developed missile delivery capability, apart from a small handful( 5-10?) of AgniTD missiles, which may or may not have been deployed. Agni-2 had not been tested as yet, let alone deployed.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Supratik » 04 Dec 2017 23:21

That article on Gujral reads like a Lutyens mutual back-patting orbituary. I remember regular threats of India slicing Pak into two being issued through media outlets during tha period. Also gurus will know better but India had toss bombs. Don't know whether the Air force was kept in dark or not. Would seem counter intuitive. Situation was not as dire as being made out. Gujral doctrine or whatever it is can be called a failure inspite of all the Urdu poetry. Among other things he liquidated RAW assets in Pak and withdrew support to the Shanti Bahini without any tangible benefits that I can think of.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Prem » 05 Dec 2017 03:28

Gujral told Yakub Khan not to forget "Humne Bhi Unhi Daryaon Ka Pani Piya Hua hai " i.e Paki will get the similar treatment.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Austin » 07 Dec 2017 11:57

India’s credentials for NSG membership are impeccable: Russia’s Sergey Ryabkov
New Delhi: Russia deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov on Wednesday said India’s and Pakistan’s application for membership of the elite Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) cannot be compared.

India, he acknowledged, had an impeccable non-proliferation record while Pakistan could not claim the same qualifications for membership of the club that sets the rules for global nuclear commerce.

The comment is significant given that India’s membership is opposed by China—now close to Russia. In recent years, Moscow, seen as close to India, has been cultivating ties with Pakistan. China and Pakistan, on their part, are declared “all weather friends.”

In India for foreign office consultations, Ryabkov said India could, meanwhile, gain admission into the Wassenaar Arrangement as soon as Thursday. The multilateral grouping, with 41 members that sets the rules on export controls for conventional arms and dual-use goods and technologies, is currently meeting in Vienna with deliberations set to conclude on Thursday.


“We have discussed India’s prospective NSG membership during our exchanges this morning (Wednesday). Russia is a firm proponent of India’s membership,” Ryabkov said, adding India’s credentials are very “impressive” and “impeccable.”

“We are talking on this to everyone including the Chinese,” he said, adding that India’s entry into the grouping should happen “sooner than later.”

“We recognize the fact there is for the moment no prospect for any unanimity with respect to the Pakistani application. So I don’t think it would be ever possible to interlink the applications of India and Pakistan to become members of the NSG,” Ryabkov said.


But the Russian deputy foreign minister stressed on the need for consensus on admission of new members—in seeming agreement with the Chinese position. “We don’t think the removal of the consensus rule will help any of the substantial issues but it may well rock the fundamentals of this (NSG) structure. So the only way forward is to make sure that the Indian case is addressed fully and everyone is convinced that there can be no question put before the issue of the NSG membership of India,” he said.

India has been seeking entry into groups like the NSG and the Wassenaar Arrangement in a bid to join the rule-making bodies rather than being a bystander. Membership to these groups is by consensus, as in the NSG. India had applied for NSG membership last year, but its bid is primarily being blocked by China, which maintains that the signing Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) is a prerequisite for entry into the bloc.

India is a member of the 35-member missile technology control regime or MTCR, which it joined last year. Membership in other groups like Wassenaar and the Australia Group would give India a chance for closer interaction with member states and also hold up its credentials, despite not being a signatory to the NPT.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Vips » 07 Dec 2017 18:11

Ha the Russian is indulging Blah Blah Blah and cares two hoots about India remaining outside NSG. Knows pretty well China is going to Veto it. He is speaking with a forked tongue. Remember the Russians supported UK against India in Security Council voting for the ICJ Judge. Cannot be trusted at all.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby kit » 07 Dec 2017 18:42

Avtar Singh wrote:RR is also talking about small reactors

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... ctors.aspx

If India has built its own sub reactors, why cannot India design its own?


Building one does not necessarily give you the technical capability to design and test one !

India at present can build a wide range of products based on tested designs .. r and d is what is missing .. we don't spend much and is mostly an after thought except for some niche areas ..where we are indeed at world class levels.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Neela » 07 Dec 2017 19:17

Vips wrote:Ha the Russian is indulging Blah Blah Blah and cares two hoots about India remaining outside NSG. Knows pretty well China is going to Veto it. He is speaking with a forked tongue. Remember the Russians supported UK against India in Security Council voting for the ICJ Judge. Cannot be trusted at all.


Not sure if you have your details correct.

There has been a palpable feeling of distrust between UNSC and UNGA with the latter accusing former of power consolidation. This is a ongoing battle and the UK ,w hich is part of P5,
was sacrificed for India at the ICJ , to appease UNGA ( at the least, this is partially true. I am not trying to discredit Sri. SushmaSwaraj's work)

And Russia signaled very early on it will back India at the UNGA round vote stage followed by France.

The matter did not reach the final voting stage. By the end of round 3, India had more than 150 UNGA members voting for it. As it became evident, Greenwood pulled out.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Vips » 08 Dec 2017 03:41

Check the Security Council voting status in round 1 that took place when all the security council members voted for UK.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ramana » 08 Dec 2017 05:03

Supratik wrote:That article on Gujral reads like a Lutyens mutual back-patting orbituary. I remember regular threats of India slicing Pak into two being issued through media outlets during tha period. Also gurus will know better but India had toss bombs. Don't know whether the Air force was kept in dark or not. Would seem counter intuitive. Situation was not as dire as being made out. Gujral doctrine or whatever it is can be called a failure inspite of all the Urdu poetry. Among other things he liquidated RAW assets in Pak and withdrew support to the Shanti Bahini without any tangible benefits that I can think of.


After the tests, ACM Mehra(R) came to stan madrassa and worked on a command and control document.

Some of us Bay Area members had the great privilege to talk to him and we had two dinners with him.

I got an extra lunch at Amber.

I asked him how was he sure the maal would work.

So he said he had his best young officers with physics and engineering background (some had Phd) go over the whole design and the conventional side and was sure of what it could do. He needed this for targeting purposes.

It was toss delivery.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Vips » 09 Dec 2017 19:29

Mumbai duo held in first case of Osmium smuggling.

In the first case of its kind in the country, two men from Jogeshwari have been held for trying to smuggle osmium metal dust into the country. What has set alarm bells ringing is the fact that osmium has limited nuclear weapons applicability, which means that it can be used to make nuclear weapons more powerful . Osmium dust sells for Rs 14 lakh per kilo in the international market.

Huzefa Motorwala and Feroze Penwala were caught by Directorate of Revenue Intelligence (DRI) officials on Thursday.

The duo were found with two kilos of powdery dust of the bluish grey metal along with 4.5 kg gold outside a courier company office. The two are suspected to be part of an international cartel. Top DRI officials told Mirror that this is the first osmium smuggling case recorded in India. Probe is on to determine the final destination of the smuggled material.

Osmium, the densest naturally occurring element, has anti-corrosive properties and is resistant to acid. According to the US based Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI), an organisation working to secure the world against nuclear, radiological and chemical dangers, Osmium is dense and so it can be used to 'stabilise' nuclear explosive material to stay compact for a relatively long period of time, thus increasing the explosive yield.

Russian security agency FSB had red-flagged osmium smuggling sometime back with potential 'production of nuclear weapons connotations' after it was discovered that Chechen terrorists were smuggling osmium into Russia from neighbouring Kazakhstan. There have also been reports of consignments of osmium being sold in Iraq and a few other middle-eastern countries after being sourced from Azerbaijan.

According to DRI officials, the osmium dust seized from the Jogeshwari duo was packed together with gold biscuits inside steel canisters. The DRI has also detained a delivery boy working for a global courier company in connection with the incident.

"The money made through the sale of osmium may have been remitted out through hawala channels. We have reasons to believe that the osmium smuggling funds may have been parked at a few globally known tax havens," said a senior DRI official requesting anonymity.

The sprawling international cartel, controlled from Hong Kong by a Pakistani, has been successful in routing osmium dust through the two accused in Mumbai on at least 10 occasions before, say DRI sources.

They were arrested under Sections 104 and 135 of the Customs Act for smuggling, misdeclaration of values and evasion of duties, said a top DRI official. Primary interrogation of the duo has revealed that Motorwala runs a second-hand car business in the western suburbs while Penwala runs a watches store in Jogeshwari.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the Interpol is known to often devise strategies to curb illicit trafficking and smuggling of strategic material which means radioactive and nuclear substances. "However, osmium by itself is not radioactive. If you talk of its application in nuclear weapons, it is not direct but only by way of being a catalytic agent when a new technological acquisition happens," said a nuclear physicist with the Saha Institute of Nuclear Physics (SINP).


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