Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5337
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby vishvak » 01 Jun 2016 21:50

From earlier posts, viewtopic.php?p=859895#p859895

Search for word "minerals".

mody
BRFite
Posts: 320
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby mody » 03 Jun 2016 13:55

The construction of prototype reactor for AHWR will be starting soon. Seems like we are still a few years away from the Thorium fuel cycle.
Even if we can get the AHWR started, that would be a big step. The reactor is supposed to be smaller and cheaper then current PHWR and hence will reduce the cost of nuclear energy. However, as the prototype is now being constructed, I would assume commercial AHWR reactors will only start coming up after 2020-21 at best.

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 372
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby V_Raman » 05 Jun 2016 01:58

From one of the retired retired kalpakkam scientist involved in the reactor programme - we are at least 30 years away to realizing the thorium cycle.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15608
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby chetak » 05 Jun 2016 08:39

No Exceptions for a Nuclear India



No Exceptions for a Nuclear India

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD

JUNE 4, 2016


America’s relationship with India has blossomed under President Obama, who will meet with Prime Minister Narendra Modi this week. Ideally, Mr. Obama could take advantage of the ties he has built and press for India to adhere to the standards on nuclear proliferation to which other nuclear weapons states adhere.

The problem, however, is that the relationship with India rests on a dangerous bargain. For years, the United States has sought to bend the rules for India’s nuclear program to maintain India’s cooperation on trade and to counter China’s growing influence. In 2008, President George W. Bush signed a civilian nuclear deal with India that allowed it to trade in nuclear materials. This has encouraged Pakistan to keep expanding a nuclear weapons program that is already the fastest growing in the world.

Now, India has Mr. Obama’s strong support in its bid to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a 48-nation body that governs trade in nuclear-related exports and aims to ensure that civilian trade in nuclear materials is not diverted for military uses. Membership would enhance India’s standing as a nuclear weapons state, but it is not merited until the country meets the group’s standards.
Photo
President Obama and Prime Minister Modi meeting last November. Credit Stephen Crowley/The New York Times

All group members have signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, either as nuclear weapons states (the United States, Britain, France, Russia, China) or as non-nuclear weapons states (everybody else). India has refused, which means it has not accepted legally binding commitments to pursue disarmament negotiations, halt the production of fissile material for nuclear weapons and not test nuclear weapons.

President Bush squandered an opportunity to demand more of India when he signed the 2008 deal, which opened the door to American trade in nuclear technology for civilian energy, something India had insisted was a prerequisite to more cooperation and lucrative business deals.

As part of the 2008 deal, the Indians promised they would be “ready to assume the same responsibilities and practices” as other nations with advanced nuclear technology. But they have fallen far short by continuing to produce fissile material and to expand their nuclear arsenal.

The Nuclear Suppliers Group is to discuss India’s application later this month. Mr. Obama is lobbying for India to win membership through a special exception. If he succeeds, India would be in a position to keep Pakistan, which has also applied for membership, from gaining membership because group decisions must be unanimous. That could give Pakistan, which at one time provided nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran, new incentives to misbehave.

Opposition from China, which is close to Pakistan and views India as a rival, could doom India’s bid for now. But the issue will not go away. India is growing in importance and seeking greater integration into organizations that govern international affairs. If it wants recognition as a nuclear weapons state, it should be required to meet the nuclear group’s standards, including opening negotiations with Pakistan and China on curbing nuclear weapons and halting the production of nuclear fuel for bombs.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

A version of this editorial appears in print on June 5, 2016, on page SR8 of the New York edition with the headline: No Exceptions for a Nuclear India. Today's Paper|

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9088
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 09 Jun 2016 11:05

X Posted rtom the “India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II” thread.

Alyssa Ayres thrashes New York Times June 4 Editorial Board article that called for the US to oppose India’s membership to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). Ayres dismisses the NYT article by saying “the American paper of record should ground its arguments in an appraisal of the complete facts”.

India, Global Governance, and the Nuclear Suppliers Group

The referenced New York Times June 4 Editorial Board article is linked below:

No Exceptions for a Nuclear India

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1991
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JTull » 09 Jun 2016 19:10

Two of world's biggest nuclear proliferators, Pakistan and North Korea, call China as their best friend which wasn't in NSG until 2004. Now it is taking the moral high ground. Give me a break!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47301
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ramana » 09 Jun 2016 21:38

Nobody will give a break.

We need to deal with it.
Either we break NSG or get China to accept.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6794
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JE Menon » 09 Jun 2016 21:48

^^exactly right. And a Brahmos sale to Vietnam is just an example...

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47301
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ramana » 09 Jun 2016 21:50

Of the ~35 NSG members, how many have agreed to India being in it?

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4956
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 09 Jun 2016 22:44

ramana wrote:Nobody will give a break.

We need to deal with it.
Either we break NSG or get China to accept.


Our previous discussions on the matter prove that China truly lacks strategic acumen.

All their ancient texts were too focused on winning tactical battles efficiently.

They lack the comprehensive strategic and governance outlook that we posses.

India's actions are more akin to a python slowly encircling the haughty dragon.

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1991
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JTull » 10 Jun 2016 01:52

ramana wrote:Nobody will give a break.

We need to deal with it.
Either we break NSG or get China to accept.


"Give me a break": used to express exasperation, protest, or disbelief.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21352
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jun 2016 05:06

ramana wrote:Of the ~35 NSG members, how many have agreed to India being in it?

ramana, in the earlier NSG plenary, 6+1 countries had objected to India. It is assumed that the same will continue their opposition this time too. They are Mexico, New Zealand, South Africa, Turkey, Switzerland & Austria plus China. Of these, Mexico, Switzerland have certainly changed their stance. New Zealand has given all indications of doing so. Turkey would need an assurance that Pakistan would not be left behind. India has said that it wouldn't object to Pakistan's application and the US has said that its application would be considered on merits. This leaves SA & Austria. I think both can be managed by India and the US, leaving only China out.


kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2045
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby kit » 10 Jun 2016 11:04

Even without NSG things will happen for India..and probably make it stronger .. NSG would rather *invite * India in a decade if it is not in already . Or risk obsolescence

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1991
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JTull » 10 Jun 2016 15:32

kit wrote:Even without NSG things will happen for India..and probably make it stronger .. NSG would rather *invite * India in a decade if it is not in already . Or risk obsolescence


After more that 20 years of trying, we're still waiting for that argument as concerns UN Security Council. Nations which go out and get what they want to achieve their strategic goals, get respect from the world. A pacifist is always waiting for someone to trample over him. Everyone is friendly when he's not a threat, but only when he needs something, he finds out who are his allies.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16987
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Philip » 10 Jun 2016 15:42

If China votes against us and encourages others to dio the same,then we should punish China most severyl economically.The trade imbalance is supposed to be approx $50B in China's favoutr.An immediate hike by sev hundreds of % for all Chinese goods plus a ban on may items will save India $50B a yr.half of that could go to ramping up the modernisation and lethality of the armed forces and the other half for Ind industry and agriculture. Plus stapled visas for all Chinese. The shaorp pointe dend of the lathi must be shoved up XI Gins a*se repeatedly until China backs off from its decades of chicanery and conspiracy to wound India.

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1991
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JTull » 10 Jun 2016 15:53

Exactly. Our nuke tests brought Pakis out of the closet. One thing China hates is to come out of the shadows. Let's call their bluff.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9088
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 11 Jun 2016 07:41

X Posted from the “Tracking India's Admission into International Groups” thread.

Extraordinary session at Vienna comes to a close without India getting the nod for Nuclear Supplier Group (NSG) membership. Matter of membership for India (and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan) now moves to Seoul plenary on June 20. China as expected is leading the charge to block India’s entry into the NSG assisted by Turkey, Kazakhstan and Ireland. Surprised at seeing Kazakhstan on the list of blockers as we have a nuclear agreement post IAEA waiver with them for uranium.

Meanwhile the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have a chance of sliming into the NSG without doing any of the heavy lifting of IAEA waiver that India had to go through and piggybacking on Indian efforts :

India senses a chance at NSG after Vienna meet

member_29350
BRFite
Posts: 119
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby member_29350 » 11 Jun 2016 12:43

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 716272.ece

With the completion of the loading of enriched uranium fuel assemblies into the second unit of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Station, commissioning of the reactor is in the final stages. “We are in the advanced stage of the commissioning of the reactor,” said S.K. Sharma, Chairman and Managing Director, Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL). The Russian reactor, VVER-1000, built by the NPCIL, has a capacity of 1,000 MWe. The first unit, with a similar capacity, reached criticality on July 13, 2013.

Loading of 163 enriched uranium fuel assemblies into Kudankulam-II began on May 11, 2016 and it was completed on May 19, 2016. Light water is the coolant in the reactor.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19448
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Austin » 12 Jun 2016 11:32

Russia eyes manufacture of nuclear power components in India

Two countries plan to build 12 reactors in next two decades
ussian atomic power corporation Rosatom is looking forward to participating in the Make in India programme and assembly of fuel rods and control system components appear to be on the cards, an official said.

Oleg A. Grigoryev, Vice President of TVEL, Rosatom's fuel company, told IANS in an interview on the sidelines of the Atomexpo 2016 that it was looking forward to assembling fuel rods in India.

On similar lines, Andry Butko, Director of Rusatom Automated Control Systems (RASU), said that some components for nuclear power plants can be assembled in India. Gradually, components can be produced in India for use at home, by Russia and for exports.

This comes as an India-Russia joint venture, the nuclear power plant at Kudankulam, which has two of its reactors up and running while four more are in the pipeline. The two countries also plan to build 12 more reactors in the next two decades.


Grigoryev said his company is open to the proposal for localising some production in India, but added that it will be feasible only when more nuclear reactors are commissioned.

"We understand India has a strong desire to localise; we are open for such cooperation. We can localise the assembly," Grigoryev said.

"The fuel rods can be assembled in India using the fuel pellets we supply. We have already developed and signed a roadmap with schedule and specification of what has to be done, but much depends on the number of units," he said.

"A facility for assembly of fuel rods with just two reactors functioning in the present situation will not be profitable," he said.


Butko, on similar lines, said that India and Russia have a programme for localisation of manufacturing in the field of nuclear power.

"The other aspect is that of deep localisation, when we produce in India some components for India, Russia and also other countries," he said.


RASU is official business integrator of comprehensive industrial automation solutions provided by Rosatom for the international market. It builds the control systems for nuclear power plants, which can be called the brain of the plant.

"Currently India and Russia have a programme for localisation of components of nuclear power plants. There is an intergovernmental agreement on localisation and we are ready to become a part of it with our systems as well," Butko said.

A 'Programme of Action' for localisation of manufacturing in India for Russia-designed nuclear plants was signed between India's Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) and Rosatom in December 2015.

The programme includes joint machinery production, especially for nuclear power plants, as well as cooperation in the fields of joint development, mastering and technological support for heavy and power engineering industries.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9088
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 16 Jun 2016 14:36

X Posted from the “Managing Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)” thread.

Fu Xiaoqiang a “research fellow with the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations” writing in the P.R. China Government Controlled paper Global Times on India’s Nuclear Supplier Group aka NSG membership.

Presuming Fu Xiaoqiang is parroting the Communist line, P.R.China seems happy to accept India’s NSG membership in exchange for India subordinating her foreign policy to toeing P.R.China’s line:

As long as all NSG members reach a consensus over how a non-NPT member could join the NSG, and India promises to comply with stipulations over the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons while sticking to its policy of independence and self-reliance, China could support New Delhi's path toward the club.


Beijing could support India’s NSG accession path if it plays by rules

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9088
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 16 Jun 2016 14:54

X Posted from the "Tracking India's Admission into International Groups" thread.

Despite staunch support of India to liberate Non-Whites from the horrors of Apartheid, South Africa is playing spoiler regards India’s Nuclear Supplier Group membership. This despite a prior assurance in May 2015 by South Africa to support India. IDSA on the subject:

India’s Entry into NSG: Why is South Africa holding out?

sivab
BRFite
Posts: 838
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sivab » 16 Jun 2016 19:51

https://twitter.com/airdefencenews/stat ... 8207362048

AIR Defence Alerts ‏@airdefencenews 18m18 minutes ago
#Namibia invites #Indian companies to directly mine #uranium from the country.


Image

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2995
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Kakkaji » 17 Jun 2016 22:41

Why India’s NSG entry is no big deal

Examine the issue closely, two facts emerge. One, India’s NSG membership is very unlikely to happen, and, two, it does not matter.

Now, what does NSG membership mean to India’s nuclear programme? Nothing. Two former chairmen of India’s Atomic Energy Commission BusinessLine spoke to, MR Srinivasan and RK Sinha, expressed themselves almost identically: “Heavens are not going to fall if India does not get NSG membership.” India has access to technology, thanks to the waiver granted in 2008. No foreign nuclear reactor supplier is waiting for India to get a NSG membership.

In fact, a long list of deal-breaker challenges hamper progress of foreign companies selling their hi-tech reactors — nuclear liability issue, Japan’s distaste for nuclear (both GE and Westinghouse are today Japanese-owned), local opposition and pricing. ‘NSG membership’ has never shown up in the list.

Indeed, with the sole exception of Russia’s Rosatom, it is difficult to see any foreign companies selling their reactors to India, even assuming that local opposition to nuclear plants could be overcome.

According to an India-briefing document of World Association of Nuclear Operators, Areva was seeking a tariff of ₹9.18 a kWhr, while the Department of Atomic Energy would not go beyond ₹6.50. In contrast, Kudankulam units three and four are expected to sell at ₹3.90 a kWhr. Energy from India-built nuclear plants are much cheaper. For GE-Hitachi and Westinghouse-Toshiba, the liability issue is a big risk, and if they factor the risk in costs, their energy will also be pricey.

It is difficult to see any foreign reactors other than the Russians’ coming up in India. India’s nuclear roll-out will most likely be limited to Nuclear Power Corporation’s 12 Pressurised Heavy Water Reactors (including four under construction), a few fast neutron reactors and whatever the Russians supply at Kudankulam.


What NSG can offer
These are the bigger issues in India’s massive expansion of its nuclear capacity, not NSG membership. Nor is NSG likely to matter materially in terms of uranium supply. India has hammered out agreements with Canada (April 2013) and Australia (November 2014), and other countries such as Kazakhstan have been supplying too.

NSG membership is an assertion of right. When the one-time NSG waiver was granted to India in 2008, India agreed that it would abide by any rules that NSG may make in the future. Being inside would mean participating in that rule-making.

Besides, NSG membership will give India a chance to expose Pakistan’s terrible proliferation record.

In a recent editorial, the New York Times observed that if India gets the membership, it will forever block Pakistan. It observed that Pakistan once provided nuclear technology to North Korea and Iran, and giving India a membership and denying it to Pakistan will give “new incentives to misbehave”. Now, such talks are reward enough for India.

In the unlikely event of India getting in, it will be in a position to use its veto to hamper Pakistan. If it doesn’t get in, India can keep the spotlight shining on Pakistan and show China as a supporter of it. Either way, it is a victory.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3518
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 Jun 2016 23:41

Misbehaving Pakistan is somehow India's problem? NYT needs to study the role of the US and China in enabling this global menace. Or is that filed under self-censorship?


In the unlikely event of India getting in, it will be in a position to use its veto to hamper Pakistan. If it doesn’t get in, India can keep the spotlight shining on Pakistan and show China as a supporter of it. Either way, it is a victory.



Fair enough, this is going to be uncomfortable for the Chinese. There is also the small matter of MTCR entry for China without which it remains an outlaw. With India in the MTCR, China-North Korea-Pakistan missile proliferation can be publically scrutinised as well. China really cannot afford to be identified as the sole hinderance to India's entry to the NSG. They need to think carefully about India pulling a China with Vietnam. Indeed India needs to initiate a series of nuclear plants there now so they can also be grandfathered by the time NSG is entered.

member_29172
BRFite
Posts: 375
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby member_29172 » 18 Jun 2016 00:23

lol no need to get angry, its another western rag thats posted here from time to time to just keep an eye on the western media and thought processes prevalent there. Although this is no big surprise from the retarded westerners and their deluded view of nuclear proliferation (or anything else happening in the world really).

They don't have balls to criticize their own govt. and the mess they have created in the middle west, slinging mud on a country half way across the world is much much easier, especially when your audience is a bunch of "USA #1!!!" types.

MTCR is done, NSG is left... lets see how that turns out.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 21352
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2016 06:55


There are a few comments rebutting that author and I post one of them here:
I disagree with the author. He says that NSG membership does not materially alter our nuclear power generation as we have the waiver and foreign companies are willing to set up in India. This is true but we must remember that it is just a one-time waiver and what future holds we cannot predict now and therefore it is better to be inside NSG as a full member. While we need to quickly & massively expand nuclear power generation, NSG membership is also needed simultaneously. It is a political instrument for India which will de-facto establish us as a nuke power, something denied to us de-jure by NPT. After all, NSG was created solely to target us! As we take its our legitimate place in the high table among nations, these positions matter. Pakistan is no longer in our larger scheme of things. It is China and it knows it and therefore wants to bog us down within the quagmire of Indian subcontinent by equating with Pakistan. We cannot be like Hanuman oblivious to our own strength.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10470
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gagan » 18 Jun 2016 08:01

In MTCR, India should do an == between China and Vietnam, phillipines, indonesia, cambodia, taiwan etc
India should say that giving China MTCR membership will be taken very deeply in all these countries. India should propose that membership be given simultaneously on the basis of principles and criteria-based approach, and unless all these countries don't qualify, none of them be admitted.

Afterall there is a risk of upsetting the regional military balance in the Indo-China sea area, if China is given a free ride into MTCR.

abhik
BRFite
Posts: 1981
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby abhik » 18 Jun 2016 17:09

Is China in a hurry to join MTCR? Don't think so.

Picklu
BRFite
Posts: 1604
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Picklu » 18 Jun 2016 17:33

While importing is ok with waiver and every seller will compete for hard cash, exporting is not possible without full membership of NSG.

That is where the game is and we are being myopic pooh-poohing ...

The whole strategy of China is to delay our entry while it masters the manufacturing of low level high volume components and get a strong foot hold in the nuclear market ahead of us.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6794
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JE Menon » 18 Jun 2016 20:43

>>exporting is not possible without full membership of NSG.

If we play by the rules. If the NSG members don't, why should we?

Picklu
BRFite
Posts: 1604
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Picklu » 18 Jun 2016 22:52

1. 'cause we are dharmik
More importantly,
2. breaking rules need both buyer and seller to be on the same page. No buyer within NSG will buy from us voiding all warranty jeopardizing all finance if we are outside and our items are not NSG certified

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10470
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Gagan » 19 Jun 2016 05:02

We aren't capitalist enough or mercantile enough to market out hard work well to make money for ourselves.
Hopefully that will be a shortcoming that will be fixed in the new era

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19448
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Austin » 19 Jun 2016 07:13

Russian President Vladimir Putin reveals to India Today he is positive of finding a solution to India's entry into NSG and has been in touch with China about it

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/worl ... 95321.html


member_29350
BRFite
Posts: 119
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby member_29350 » 20 Jun 2016 06:41

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/t ... 748864.ece

Lot of scare mongering in it; the only thing one can agree is the high cost of power much like Enron. other than that, it's a wash

There are several disturbing aspects to this agreement that deserve close public scrutiny. These include the arbitrary use of executive authority in selecting Westinghouse as a supplier, the international legal commitment made by the government to indemnify Westinghouse in the event of an accident, and the high expected cost of electricity from these reactors.


Notice he doesn't mention China though it's not like we have to follow the Chinese but still honesty requires who does and who doesn't want AP1000

In April, Toshiba, which acquired Westinghouse in 2006, announced a $2.3 billion write-down in its value, largely because of persistent concerns about the economic viability of Westinghouse’s AP1000 design. Of more than a dozen orders that Westinghouse expected from within the U.S. a decade ago, only four have materialised. Just last month, a utility called Florida Power and Light postponed its plans for two AP1000 reactors by at least four years. And in February, the Tennessee Valley Authority, a U.S. government company, cancelled its plans for two AP1000 reactors explaining that this was “the fiscally responsible action”.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6644
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Anujan » 20 Jun 2016 09:18

SSridhar wrote:

There are a few comments rebutting that author and I post one of them here:
I disagree with the author. He says that NSG membership does not materially alter our nuclear power generation as we have the waiver and foreign companies are willing to set up in India. This is true but we must remember that it is just a one-time waiver and what future holds we cannot predict now and therefore it is better to be inside NSG as a full member. While we need to quickly & massively expand nuclear power generation, NSG membership is also needed simultaneously. It is a political instrument for India which will de-facto establish us as a nuke power, something denied to us de-jure by NPT. After all, NSG was created solely to target us! As we take its our legitimate place in the high table among nations, these positions matter. Pakistan is no longer in our larger scheme of things. It is China and it knows it and therefore wants to bog us down within the quagmire of Indian subcontinent by equating with Pakistan. We cannot be like Hanuman oblivious to our own strength.


The second issue with NSG membership is that most high tech becomes commercially viable only if it is exported (and the export has high markups which in turn fuels more R&D). This is especially true in high tech and defence. The examples are numerous. For example, we subsidized Jaguars, Sukhois, Tanks from Russia and even MBB tried out their new designs on our Dhruv.

To bring the cost of N-power down, we need to be more than just consumers. Westinghouse reactors for example need to be manufactured in India, with joint development, ownership of IP and export contracts. Yes, the waiver gives us the ability to buy stuff, but we need to think beyond and need to make and export stuff.

Secondly, I think it is a net positive if Pakistan joins NSG. So far, they have not faced consequences (and indeed they had no incentive) to behave well. If joining NSG holds them to a higher standard of non-proliferation, it squeezes them strategically (no free nukes to Saudia for example, their mischief potential for nuke cooperation with Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Burma etc get gets stymied). As if now, they are happily proliferating, happily building more nukes. Let them get into NSG and show everyone what a farce this whole non-proliferation regime is.

Every outcome is favorable for India, if India gets into NSG. If NSG gets strengthened, gets serious and excludes Pakistan, its a win. If NSG gets demolished because Pakistan gets in and makes a mockery of international non-proliferation regime, that is a win too.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9029
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Jun 2016 09:43

Anujan wrote:


Secondly, I think it is a net positive if Pakistan joins NSG. So far, they have not faced consequences (and indeed they had no incentive) to behave well. If joining NSG holds them to a higher standard of non-proliferation, it squeezes them strategically (no free nukes to Saudia for example, their mischief potential for nuke cooperation with Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Burma etc get gets stymied). As if now, they are happily proliferating, happily building more nukes. Let them get into NSG and show everyone what a farce this whole non-proliferation regime is.



Tell me one instance where Pakistan has played by the rules or has been punished for breaking the rules, has China ever been punished for literally pissing on NSG, NPT etc.... Its better Pakis are out for H&D, they never follow rules and are never punished for Breaking rules.

By all logic for the Genocides from 1947, 71 and continuing today thier Miltary and bureaucrats should have been executed for crimes against humanity.

Every outcome is favorable for India, if India gets into NSG. If NSG gets strengthened, gets serious and excludes Pakistan, its a win. If NSG gets demolished because Pakistan gets in and makes a mockery of international non-proliferation regime, that is a win too.


I think you are just pulling our leg and trying to get us worked up with these lines.

Only win for us if we exponentially increase our capabilities that no one should be ignoring our sensitivities.

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1326
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby srin » 20 Jun 2016 11:04

A question - what's the relative advantage of reserving sites for specific countries/companies (like Jaitapur for Areva) instead of auctioning sites for nuclear parks with competing bidders ? For solar parks, the auctioning system has resulted in good price discovery, so wondering what prevents us from doing that for nuclear sites too ?

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6644
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Anujan » 20 Jun 2016 12:23

As far as official position is concerned, India should not have any objections to any other countries joining NSG provided they have impeccable non-proliferation credentials. We are not competing with anyone here, certainly not Pakistan.

Whats the disadvantage Pakis have in not being part of NSG? China already supplies them with reactors. They already have the bomb. They havent signed FMCT or CTBT. The only stick everyone can beat them with is to deny western reactors (which they cannot afford to buy or interested in buying anyway).

If they are part of NSG and still continue their nuclear shenanigans, one of two things will happen: Either Pakis face consequences for that or NSG loses all its credibility and gets exposed as the sham cartel that it is.

Our objectives of joining NSG and Pakistan's objectives of joining NSG are totally different. We have requirement for nuclear power, a serious program to build and operate nuke reactors and an industrial base to produce nuke components and conduct nuclear research. Pakis just want equal==equal. India dropping its objection to Pakis joining NSG now forces China's hands, they can now gravely insist that Pakistan's application be considered on merit (have they separated civil/mil facilities with inspections for civil reactors? Have they provided full accountability for each and every one AQ Khan supplied materials to? there is quite some distance to cover there).


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anindya and 19 guests