India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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Vipul
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Vipul » 21 Dec 2011 19:59

India will need 5,057 tonnes uranium in 12th Plan.

India would require an estimated 5,057 tonnes of uranium during the 12th Five-Year Plan period from 2012-2017, government told the Lok Sabha today.

"The country's uranium requirement in the 12th Five-Year Plan period is estimated to be 5,057 tonne," Minister of State in the PMO V Narayanasamy said in a written reply.He said this includes 318 tonne of low enriched uranium for the Tarapur Atomic Power Station (TAPS) I-II and the Kudankulam I-II units.

As part of a long-term uranium procurement agreement, India would import 1,375 tonnes of natural uranium dioxide pellets from Russia and 1,150 tonne of natural uranium ore concentrate from Kazakhstan, he said.

On Australia's moves to lift the ban on uranium imports to India, Narayanasamy said, No formal communication has been received by the Government of India from Australia, so far.It is not possible, as yet, to provide the time by which uranium for our reactors would be available from Australia," he said.

In reply to a separate question, Narayanasamy said a decision has been made to invite IAEA missions - Operational Safety Review Team (OSART) and Integrated Regulatory Review Service (IRRS) - for peer review of safety of nuclear power plants and of the regulatory system respectively. "The central government is in touch with IAEA for scheduling the visit of OSART team in 2012," he added.

Bade
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Bade » 22 Dec 2011 00:12

Nuclear scientist PK Iyengar passes away
After graduating in physics from Trivandrum, Iyengar joined the famous Tata Institute of Fundamental Research in 1952 in Mumbai.

Three years later, he joined the then Atomic Energy Establishment, Trombay and was assigned to Chalk River Laboratories of the Canadian Atomic Energy Establishment.

After his return from Canada, Iyengar was involved in building several experimental facilities.

He was engaged in the design and setting up of the country's first fast reactor critical facility, Purnima-1, which achieved its first criticality May 18, 1972, paving the way for India's first peaceful nuclear experiment exactly two years later, on May 18, 1974, at Pokhran.

After serving in various capacities at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) Mumbai, Iyengar took over as its director in 1984.

During this time, he provided crucial leadership in resolving many technical challenges encountered in the commissioning of the indigenous research reactor Dhruva and directed the Indian Atomic Energy program during his tenure as AEC chairman.

Iyengar was conferred with various awards and honours in India and abroad, including the prestigious Bhatnagar Award in 1971 and the Padma Bhushan in 1975.
Last edited by Bade on 22 Dec 2011 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

Muppalla
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Muppalla » 22 Dec 2011 00:16

P K Iyengar sir - Rest in Peace. India lost one of its greats today.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Sanku » 22 Dec 2011 00:42

Muppalla wrote:P K Iyengar sir - Rest in Peace. India lost one of its greats today.


Indeed India lost a noble soul and great son today.

May he return soon. We need all of them back.


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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Philip » 22 Dec 2011 08:29

The pioneers of our path to nuclear self-reliance are almost all fallen like autumn leaves.We will not see their like again.Their names will be written forever in gold and when we one day-sooner rather than later,we have mastered FBT,and have begun building such plants across the country,will we realise the immense and priceless contribution and sacrifice that they have made for the nation.PKI,RIP.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arnab » 22 Dec 2011 08:45

I wonder if there is a Xian or 'pick your favourite minority' angle here as well?

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111222/j ... 914143.jsp

Nuclear protest, now in Karnataka
K.M. RAKESH
Bangalore, Dec. 21: A Kudankulam-type protest is building up in Karnataka where farmers in six villages around the functioning Kaiga nuclear power station have been staging a sit-in, demanding relocation to a “safe zone” and scrapping of plans to add more units.

The agitation, which has united rivals BJP, Congress and the Left, has come at a time the proposed Kudankulam plant in Tamil Nadu has run into a wall of protests over radiation fears.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby svinayak » 22 Dec 2011 14:01

Let us see if the 'church' wants to show 'concern'

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Prem » 23 Dec 2011 02:23

Church ho Yaa Chruch Walle carrying White Man's Burden
On Our Radar: India’s Growing Nuclear Sector
The rapid expansion of India’s nuclear energy sector, which is expected to triple in size by the end of the decade, is stirring anxiety about insufficient regulatory safeguards, construction in quake zones and the displacement of farmers and other landowners. [The Sydney Morning Herald]
A Texas environmental agency has rejected a request from the oil company Valero for up to $92 million in tax breaks that would have come from school and municipal budgets. [Associated Press]
Researchers at Notre Dame have developed a “solar paint” that uses semiconducting nanoparticles to produce energy from sunlight, the university reports. But it is not ready for commercial use; for one thing, it has less than one-tenth the efficiency of typical silicon solar cells, the researchers say. [UPI.com]

Prem
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Prem » 23 Dec 2011 02:26

Coincident

NRC Approves New Nuclear Reactor Design
WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal regulators have approved a nuclear reactor designed by Westinghouse Electric Co. that could power the first nuclear plants built from scratch in this country in more than three decades. Approval of the design is a major step forward for utility companies in Georgia, Florida and the Carolinas that have billions of dollars riding on plans to build AP1000 reactors in the Southeast. Without NRC approval, the utilities could not have gotten a license to build their plants. Federal officials approved an earlier version of the AP1000 reactor in 2006, but it was never built in the United States. Four AP1000 reactors are now under construction in China. Aris Candris, Westinghouse president and CEO, said the road to receiving design certification of the AP1000 "has been long and sometimes arduous." The NRC vote brings the U.S "one step closer to constructing AP1000 units and putting thousands to work to ultimately provide future generations with safe, clean and reliable electricity," he said. Utilities in Georgia and South Carolina have been waiting for the design certification so they can move ahead with applications to build two reactors in each state.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 23 Dec 2011 08:20

X Posted from the Pakistan Nuclear Proliferation thread.

Claim that A.Q. Khan proliferated centrifuge technology to India:

AQ Khan gave nuclear tech to India: US arms expert

The referenced article by Joshua Pollack in Playboy of all places:

The Secret Treachery of A.Q.Khan

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 23 Dec 2011 08:27

^^ Someone invite the Pollack chap to BRFATA. I would love to GUBO him with my own hands . He ll forget what nookular means by the time we are done with him (ie if he knows a thing about it) . Does he intend to create controversy in order to be famous ? Join the league of Kim Kardashian . or perhaps get invited to the big boss house in India .

DDM as usual got the cannon fodder it needed. Giving so much emphasis to a non-entity . and that too reporting from the playboy , of all sources .

arun
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 23 Dec 2011 08:40

Jeffrey Lewis at Arms Control Wonk on the Joshua Pollack article claiming that A.Q Khan proliferated centrifuge technology to India:

India Was Khan’s Fourth Customer

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby JE Menon » 23 Dec 2011 18:09

^^I've posted a comment there, which is "awaiting moderation"... Maybe it will be up tomorrow. Here it is:

While the possibility that AQ Khan (and basically this means Pakistan) sold nuclear technology to India is totally counter-intuitive, practically unthinkable really, it is not totally inconceivable. The Indians, if nothing else are generally mild and non-confrontational but also ruthlessly realistic. Consider:

1. The strategic environment in those days was extremely restrictive. India was sanctioned heavily in the nuclear sector, with certain arrangements having been arrived at amongst the NPT signatories specifically targeting India.

2. At the same time, the US due to its own strategic exigencies, was turning a blind eye to the fact that Pakistan was busy developing a nuclear capability of its own. The US did this because it wanted to keep the anti-Soviet Jihad in Afghanistan going.

3. Obviously, the Indians knew what AQ Khan was up to. The Pakistani nuclear program was certainly closely tracked by Indian intelligence. They also knew they could do next to nothing to prevent it, given the American posture on the matter.

4. In such a situation, in view of the fact that India was still developing its own capability, is it inconceivable that New Delhi decided that it would use the only proliferation network that was “protected” by the US? This would have been a subtle way of (a) getting back at Pakistan, i.e. making them provide the rope which Indians would use to hang them (at least in Pakistani minds); (b) use the Pakistani key to unlock the American firewall around Pakistan’s nuclear activities; and (c) keep an inside track of what Pakistan was up to in the proliferation business.

On the Indian side, it cannot have been anything but a state operation, and almost certainly an intelligence operation. There is a certain subtle elegance in getting your enemies to provide you with the capability that they themselves firmly believe you would use to exterminate them, and more deliciously get it with the support of the Pakistani military establishment, whose raison d’etre is the destruction of India. And the approach would be typically Indian. (Suggestion: read the Arthashastra by Kautilya – from approximately 300 BC, to get an idea of what I’m talking about. It is the ancient Indian treatise on Politics).

Having said that, there is nothing that can remotely pass as evidence (at least in the public domain) that such transactions did occur. Josh Pollack's article raises the possibility, and certainly it will be examined in more critical detail in the coming weeks if the buzz lasts that long. If not, it will lie dormant, until someone from India sheds light on this. Fat chance of that.
______________

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 23 Dec 2011 18:32

arun wrote:The referenced article by Joshua Pollack in Playboy of all places:

The Secret Treachery of A.Q.Khan


As somebody pointed out already, India could not have been the fourth country. The fourth country was China. There was a two-way proliferation between these two and it is open and acknowledged.

If it is this Pollack guy's contention that only four countries were involved in Pakistani proliferation, then India is certainly not in the list. The story falls flat on its face then and there.

OTOH, Indian intelligence services which are not usually credited much, might have staged an operation to really understand how far the Pakistanis had proceeded technologically, if there was some truth in the story (leaving aside the '4' error). However, I strongly discount the possibility that AQK would have had anything to do with that. He has a pathological hatred for his mother land, India, and would (most probably) never descend to that level to help the evil kafir Hindus, to fill up his personal (and the associated Army Generals') coffers or build Ghori's tomb. The Indian intelligence might have approached some Pakistani Army Generals who later shifted the blame to AQK now that the 'national hero' is a convenient punching bag.

Added later: I just read the whole article. The story is based purely on conjectures. There is absolutely no shred of evidence. It seems to me to be an attempt by Pakistan to now shift the blame on an associate of AQK, a person who is claimed to be of Indian origin. Nothing delights a Pakistani heart more than depicting an Indian as an evil bania Hindu.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby vic » 23 Dec 2011 19:13

I have postulated repeatedly that Centrifuge tech was false road to nuclear weapons created by CIA to keep wannabee nations on wrong track. It is my guess that Centrifuges cannot enrich Uranium to weapon grade

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby ldev » 23 Dec 2011 23:00

On the Indian side, it cannot have been anything but a state operation, and almost certainly an intelligence operation. There is a certain subtle elegance in getting your enemies to provide you with the capability that they themselves firmly believe you would use to exterminate them, and more deliciously get it with the support of the Pakistani military establishment, whose raison d’etre is the destruction of India. And the approach would be typically Indian. (Suggestion: read the Arthashastra by Kautilya – from approximately 300 BC, to get an idea of what I’m talking about. It is the ancient Indian treatise on Politics)


:D Very well put!!. If there is any truth to this, I would have to say that this operation ranks right up there with anything Mossad has done. The delicious irony would be if AQK was informed about the identity of "the customer" after the "sale" happened, thereby tying him and his network to secrecy for ever, never able to mention the "customer's" name, because he would be lynched by public opinion in Pakistan, and this great secret protected by the Pakistan armed forces!! :rotfl:

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby vera_k » 24 Dec 2011 02:13

I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. When the USA can proliferate Soviet N-sub technology from India, stands to reason that India could also proliferate European centrifuge tech from Pakistan. :wink:

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 24 Dec 2011 07:58

Mean while-

Yindia firmly in the grip of 123 agreement , :P not to mention the 456 agreement. Reliance buys minority stake in amreeki nu-kular power company.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -fukushima


MUMBAI: Reliance Industries has joined hands with Bill Gates, Vinod Khosla and Nathan Myrvhold — the former Microsoft tech honcho, maths whiz and master French chef — to fund the development of a nuclear reactor with the potential to revolutionise power generation.

The Mukesh Ambani-promoted company has bought a minority stake in Terra Power LLC, based in Washington, US, and founded by Myrvhold's Intellectual Ventures. Gates is the primary investor and chairman in the company, and Khosla and Charles River Ventures are investors.



As you can see Yindian companies are buying amreeki companies stake. This could not have been possible without the N-DEAL.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 26 Dec 2011 01:06

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ro/891712/

“We were always against the plant but had failed to convince other villagers of the dangers. But that changed after Fukushima. Scientists are arguing that there won’t be any accidents, but what if something happens? They can perhaps control an explosion or a fire, but certainly not radiation like the one in Japan,” says Peter Milton, a fisherman who is one of the organisers of the agitation.

As the protests caught on, there were allegations that they were backed by foreign money. The setting—the St Lourdes Church as venue and with priests of the local parish and their superiors backing the protesters—fuelled the charges.

“Those raising charges of this being a communal agitation have no idea about the demography of the region or the communal equations here. The majority of the people here are from the Nadar community that has Hindus, Christians and Muslims. Religion is secondary to the identity provided by the community. How can this be a Christian agitation then? The authorities are trying to mislead people who don’t know the region well,” says Raj Leon, one of the organisers.

Stanley, a fisherman who has been made the cashier at the protest site, shows his account book to disprove the ‘foreign money’ charge. After the first phase of protests, during which 127 men, women and children sat on an indefinite hunger strike, the organisers realised that they were in for a long haul. In the beginning, they collected a few hundred rupees from every household but they soon realised that the money wouldn’t keep a long-term struggle going. Thus, villagers began contributing 10 per cent of their income from fishing to the protests.

In Idinthakarai alone, there are 460 fishing boats attached to 12 cooperatives. Stanley shows receipts of contributions from each of the societies to prove his claim. The collections range from Rs 50,000 and above, sometimes running into several lakhs if the catch is good. The others, beedi rollers, traders and daily wage workers, donate what they can, sometimes in cash, at other times volunteering at the protest venue by distributing water packets and putting up tents. “We don’t need much money to sustain this. After all, how much does it take to organise a hunger strike,” asks S P Udayakumar, the coordinator of the struggle committee.
........
Among the protesters are Joseph J Sunder and his relative Joseph Kishore. Sunder works as an IT consultant in Singapore while Kishore is an accounts manager with a firm in Oman. Both have come home to spend Christmas with their families as always; only this time they are part of the protesters.

“They are portraying us as illiterate and hence ignorant fishing folk to claim that we are being misled. There are poor among us, but not idiots,” says Sunder.


Unlike the facility in Fukushima, the Koodankulam plant has a series of safety features, all designed to kick in automatically in case of a failure. For instance, there is a primary containment structure of 1.20 metres thick concrete, the inner part of which is lined with leak-proof steel plates. Then, a second containment structure that is 0.60 metres thick. To prepare for any eventuality such as a tsunami, the facilities have been designed much above the expected water level.

In the event of a shutdown, there are four diesel generators to cool each reactor where only one is needed as per design. These generators have been kept in flood-and-storm-proof structures at very high levels to prevent losing power (the generators were flooded in Japan). And if these generators fail, there is a unique Passive Heat Removal System, which, in layman’s terms, is a sophisticated system of cooling the reactors using air, without any external power supply.

Again, to prevent a situation similar to Fukushima, where the hydrogen build-up inside the containment led to an explosion, there are passive catalytic hydrogen re-combiners which would convert it to water. To prevent the reactor from over heating, massive tanks holding 12 lakh litres of borated water are kept inside the containment which would be automatically released to flood the reactor core.

“There is no chance of contamination of water as the pressurised water inside the reactor, the demineralised light water that is used to run the turbine, and the cold ocean water that is used to cool the light water, are contained in three independent closed loops with no direct contact with one another other than heat transfer,” says Banerjee.

“We have an incredible track record of commissioning and maintaining 20 reactors for power production, spanning four decades. We have the capability and have matured the technology. This is something we are proud of and it pains us to face these allegations,” says B C Pathak, the chief construction engineer of the plant.

Even as the protest continues, it is clear that the issue is much bigger than Koodankulam. Any setback here would have its effect on all future programmes. Those in favour of nuclear power generation point out the example of an electric switch that enables an equipment to function even while protecting the user from a shock. And those opposed point to the windmills and images from Japan and Chernobyl. At Koodankulam, it is science versus fears and an end is not in sight.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 26 Dec 2011 01:11

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -officials

India and Pakistan to talk on Nuclear CBMs this month

In an apparent bid to strengthen its case for access to civil nuclear technology, Pakistan has been pressing the issue of civil nuclear cooperation with India, including a proposal to discuss measures to cope with a Fukushima-like situation, the sources said.

Prem
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Prem » 26 Dec 2011 02:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9M__yYb ... r_embedded
Watched this guy few months ago. He thinks he owns Thorium USage

LFTR in 5 Minutes – THORIUM REMIX 2011

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby RoyG » 26 Dec 2011 06:26

The concept seems superior to the fast breeder reactor we've developed. A prototype LTFR was constructed decades ago and worked pretty well. Does India plan to start any research on a similar type of reactor?

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby arun » 26 Dec 2011 08:15

Joshua Pollack has responded to an invitation to comment on this thread at BRF regards India being the “Fourth Customer” of the A.Q.Khan network at Arms Control Wonk.

See his post of Dec 24, 2011 responding to post of Dec 21 by poster “gak”:

Clicky

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 26 Dec 2011 12:23

arun, in a reply to one of the comments, he admits he is not sure about India being the fourth customer. He also admits that the Indian intelligence had penetrated AQK.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 26 Dec 2011 13:34

RoyG wrote:The concept seems superior to the fast breeder reactor we've developed. A prototype LTFR was constructed decades ago and worked pretty well. Does India plan to start any research on a similar type of reactor?


India has invested tremendously into the 'Fast' reactor concept which has a superior breeding capability. LFTR is not a Uranium breeder. India lacks fissile material such as U-233 which will be required to 'prime' the LFTR. India does have Pu-239 which can prime a fast reactor but not a LFTR. Also the PFBR is very similar to the US concept of IFR and both can run on Uranium as well as Thorium. This too is an enormous advantage.

That said, the LFTR is a safer concept as it avoids liquid sodium. There is also the LCFR which is a chloride fast reactor which could be used for breeding without the Sodium problem, though it has its own issues. Indias thermal breeder is the AHWR-700 based on Canadian Candu. Again selected by Homi Bhabha and still running program 50 years later despite not producing much electricity yet.

There are zero plans to stray even the slightest from Homi Bhabha's plan from the 1960's. No course corrections are planned or thought necessary.

Of course the real bottom line is that the LFTR boosters never talk about on item - Cost. It will not be cheaper or less time to build one of these in the 1000 MW range. If you start development right now, you may be able to get the first kw of commercial power in about 2035-2040. More likely 2040, just because of the fluorine @ 700k 'chemical' plant. Mr Kirk Sorenson is speaking so fast to try and bait and switch in his need for public funds.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 26 Dec 2011 17:39

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/09/15 ... onfession/

Photochor to his dutch Bibi wrote:
(1)You know we had cooperation with China for 15 years. We put up a centrifuge plant at Hanzhong (km250 south-west of Xian). We sent 135 C-130 plane loads of machines, inverters, valves, flow meters, pressure gauges. Our teams stayed there for weeks to help and their teams stayed here for weeks at a time. Late minister Liu We, V. M. [vice minister] Li Chew, Vice Minister Jiang Shengjie used to visit us.




By Joshua's own admission , AQ Khan claims that China is the 4th customer.

Here is my take.

Xerox Khan is a complete fraud. The centrifuges did not even work for Pak , leave alone for any other country.

There has been a speculation that the Paki 98 tests were Pu-239 based and not U-235 based . So there is a strong possibility that China supplied completely assembled warheads to Pak in 98 for them to conduct the blast. This was discussed here in the past. Can any one post links to the article ? There were some articles which based such claim on radionuclide iirc. Can anyone post the links ?


>>India has invested tremendously into the 'Fast' reactor concept which has a superior breeding capability. LFTR is not a Uranium breeder. India lacks fissile material such as U-233 which will be required to 'prime' the LFTR. India does have Pu-239 which can prime a fast reactor but not a LFTR. Also the PFBR is very similar to the US concept of IFR and both can run on Uranium as well as Thorium. This too is an enormous advantage.

Actually India is looking at other designs too. The CHTR design is in advanced phase. That design is safer then most other design. India is also beginning to work on the travelling wave design .

>>Mr Kirk Sorenson is speaking so fast to try and bait and switch in his need for public funds.

Agreed . There are many such people in the energy market. He is either looking for bakra gov't to halaal or some poor investor to halaal. There are plenty such people . Claims have ranged from cheap solar power to fusion reactors . none verified of course .

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Philip » 26 Dec 2011 23:31

Gak,if you remember,here were reports to the effect that long before P-2, China conducted a test of a Paki n-weapon on its soil,whose design and perhaps key components too, had been given to the Pakis.This way the Pakis could have the secret satisfaction that their bomb would work if it needed to be used.It was at that time kept hidden in the basement.P-2 forced the Pakis to carry their bomb out from the basement and test it.Even here the speed with which the Pakis rushed to Beijing after the tests of P-2 indicated that the PRC was the "overlord" of the Pani N-deterrent.Immediately after Pak tested ,the profuse statements made by Paki leaders thanking the PRC left no one in doubt that the Paki tests had a Chinese "godfather".It was not possible for them to have responded to India's P-2 tests without direct Chinese assistance,or as many have surmised to have tested a Chinese made N-device/devices on Paki soil. In fact,one theory is that China used the advantage of the so-called "Paki" tests to test a few of their warheads.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby sum » 27 Dec 2011 09:24

Good article on the process for training in our N-establishment:
The making of a nuclear scientist

The orientation course conducted at BARC Training Schools provides a wonderful launching pad for candidates to realise their dreams of a career in nuclear research.

After a 30-year pursuit of excellence in nuclear research that includes a number of research papers, scientist M. Sai Baba, says scientists like him have started to play an “integrating role.”

The upcoming competitive exam for the one-year Orientation Course for Engineering Graduates and Science Post-Graduates (OCES) conducted at BARC Training Schools is likely to be yet another opportunity.

Dr. Sai Baba's team has been shouldering the responsibility of mentoring selected students who are future scientists at Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research in Kalpakkam. “The young scientists are from various parts of the country. We have to integrate them. This is the most fulfilling experience,” says Dr. Sai Baba.

Stressing the need for collective efforts in the country for research in strategic and civilian uses, he says “There are only around 300 world class research papers pertaining to nuclear research in the country every year. We want to inspire more students towards a rewarding career in nuclear research.”

The OCES conducted at BARC Training Schools is likely to be a stepping stone for such students.

In the backdrop of protests in various parts of the country against nuclear plants, the exam is likely to generate more enthusiasm among students of engineering and postgraduate programmes in physics and chemistry.

Those selected would also have the opportunity to be part of a team that tries to balance the energy needs of our developing nation and safety concerns of the common man pertaining to nuclear installations, say scientists who are part of Dr. Sai Baba's team that shaped the training module for young scientists.

“When we address safety concerns of the young scientists we say that the training is an opportunity to make nuclear technology safer for the common man,” said a scientist.

According to a statement from IGCAR, an aspirant who scores a minimum of 50 per cent aggregate marks on completion of the training programme is declared to have passed the course. Successful trainees would be posted as scientific officers in any of the units of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) such as the Atomic Minerals Directorate of Exploration and Research (AMD), Hyderabad; Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Mumbai; Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Ltd (BHAVINI), Kalpakkam; Board of Radiation and Isotope Technology (BRIT), Mumbai; Raja Ramanna Centre for Advanced Technology (RRCAT), Indore; Heavy Water Board (HWB), Mumbai; Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR), Kalpakkam; Nuclear Fuel Complex (NFC), Hyderabad; Uranium Corporation of India Ltd (UCIL), Jaduguda; Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd, (NPCIL), Mumbai, and Variable Energy Cyclotron Centre (VECC), Kolkata.

Allocation of a successful OCES trainee to a DAE unit is done based on the merit at the end of the OCES programme.

They also earn a Post-Graduate Diploma of Homi Bhabha National Institute, a Deemed-to-be University. This could also be an opportunity for earning a Ph.D for young scientists who are motivated.

The successful students would get an opportunity to work in various branches of basic, applied and engineering sciences that have a bearing on Nuclear Technology. This includes structural mechanics, heat and mass transfer, material science, fabrication processes, non-destructive testing, chemical sensors, high temperature thermodynamics, radiation physics and computer science.

The trainees would also get to lead research teams in various frontier subjects like quasi crystals, oxide superconductors, nano-structures, clusters, SQUID fabrication programmes, exopolymers and experimental simulation of condensed matter using colloids.

They would in future emerge as key contributors to vital sectors such as defence and space to develop techniques for reliable solutions to specialised problems. They would also have to prepare for collaborations with educational, research and development institutes.

A few of the successful young scientists would steer the country's High-Technology Nuclear Programme.

The success of the second stage of Indian Atomic Energy Programme, which is aimed at preparing the country for utilisation of the extensive thorium reserves and providing means to meet the large demands of electrical energy in future, depends on the teamwork of such bright young minds.

The details of the exams and training programme are available at www.igcar.gov.in.

Aspirants can have direct interaction with mentor scientists through email at msb@igcar.gov.in and tcpas11@gmail.com.

Even though the programme is rigorous, the mentors say they will be with the young scientists through the programme.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 27 Dec 2011 10:19

gakakkad wrote:Actually India is looking at other designs too. The CHTR design is in advanced phase. That design is safer then most other design. India is also beginning to work on the travelling wave design .


Last I heard the CHTR is still very experimental. They can't seem to settle on the correct coolant even and the size is still sub MW. Also the CHTR is not an electric power reactor. High temperature is used to produce Hydrogen & ammonia.

First I'm hearing about the traveling wave.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 27 Dec 2011 18:26

CHTR (pebble bed ) is in an advance stage of development. An 18 mw electricity generation prototype is planned . There is no coolant related problem.(coolant will be Molten Pb-Bi eutectic alloy (44.5% Pb and 55.5% Bi) ) There was some problem of getting the fuel into pebble design. That is settled. Large scale Commercial production can be planned by 2020. Prototype construction will begin in 2 years as per my friend. I had already posted the design details before.

The last official update from the site .(Jan 26 2011.)


http://www.barc.ernet.in/press/2011/1.html



Compact High Temperature Reactor (CHTR) and 600 MWth High Temperature Reactor (HTR) for Hydrogen Production

Solid modeling of CHTR systems and components was completed. CHTR fuel rod simulator costing about 1% of the imported option was developed. Fabrication of molten salt loop and corrosion test facility for high temperature reactor application has been completed.

The challenging task of treating the double heterogeneity effect created by lumping the fuel into particles and those into pebbles has been done using the Reactivity equivalent Physical Transform (RPT) method. The results were compared with reference results from Monte Carlo simulation of a pebble, in which double heterogeneity has been treated explicitly.

CHTR physics design simulations were performed with new design modifications such as use of thinner control rods for finer control, Reduction in the available locations (18 to 12) for control rod etc. Efforts were made to minimise the single CR worth at criticality by varying the content of burnable poison.


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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby SSridhar » 27 Dec 2011 19:03

Gak/Philip, The Pakistani efforts at possessing nuclear weapons predate the "Smiling Buddha" test by a decade. PAEC chief Dr. Munir Akram recalls FM Ayub Khan saying in late 1965 that ‘ . . . if needed, Pakistan could get it from China’, referring to the nuclear weapons. As early as circa 1965, Pakistan had concluded a secretive agreement with China wherein it was rumoured to have promised to help Pakistan acquire nuclear capabilities. Z.A. Bhutto’s papers from his death cell confirm this.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 27 Dec 2011 21:19

Yup .. that was well known ..that they would rather eat grass , then not have a nuclear weapon .



TSP did not have the capability to assemble a bum from scratch. Most probably , it still lacks the capability . The warheads were china supplied.

Here is Ramana's excellent analysis dated 9th december 1999 . (that's over 12 years now )


viewtopic.php?t=189


It is possible this has vented, and the US plane detected the PU sample.<BR>Origins of PU sample<BR>However Pakistan’s Khusab reactor, which can provide PU went critical in October 1999, much later after the tests and could not have provided the PU for the Chagai tests. The source of PU detected at Chagai can only be from outside Pakistan. <BR>China, which has provided significant help to the Pakistani nuclear program, could have provided the PU in the following ways:<BR>One, the triggers for the devices were Chinese designs using PU and as one of the tests vented it released the PU sample. This explanation would account for the small quantity detected. It must be from the second test as it is a shaft as opposed to a tunnel. And the seismic signature is small compared to the first indicating it is a different design.<BR>Secondly, they could have provided the actual device itself. This could explain the flurry of flights of Pakistani officials from Islamabad to Beijing prior to the tests. If this is so, then, the Chinese have tested at Chagai. This would be a violation of the CTBT Article I and II already. For the doubters, please check fas.org for description of the last Chinese test- yield, seismic signature etc. It is similar to the signature at Chagai- low 4s or so





My conclusions-

Photochor is a complete fraud. His centrifuge designs are useless. He duped NoKo . And his own awaam .

Paki bombs don't exist. They are panda bums.

Panda played along with photochors fraud because it wanted to hide its involvement in directly giving Pak assemble warheads

India penetrated the AQK network , to gauge the extent of the Paki capability. It had no intention to learn anything from it. There was nothing to learn in any case.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 27 Dec 2011 22:42

gakakkad wrote:CHTR (pebble bed ) is in an advance stage of development. An 18 mw electricity generation prototype is planned . There is no coolant related problem.(coolant will be Molten Pb-Bi eutectic alloy (44.5% Pb and 55.5% Bi) ) There was some problem of getting the fuel into pebble design. That is settled. Large scale Commercial production can be planned by 2020. Prototype construction will begin in 2 years as per my friend. I had already posted the design details before.


First the original question was why alternate 'Thorium' designs are not being considered in the three step. Second it is not an electricity reactor and not intended as an option for the three step program. Finally the CHTR does not breed Thorium and also requires a massive amount of U-233 which India does not have. A commercial CHTR would need 100 pounds or so of the stuff and even the USA only has about 500 pounds. The plan is to get it from the three step breeding, so ergo this program will have to wait for the three step to complete. Right now full three step is may be 2035, more likely 2040, esp. as the PFBR continues getting pushed back. Remember PFBR is still part step 1. Actually more like Step 1.33 as Thorium is not being bred, just more Pu-239 for more PFBR's. So commercial CHTR is probably in the 2050 range.

The prime problem for India, as has been pointed out repeatedly here, has always been fissile material. We have Pu-239 but it does not work with LFTR, which would allow us to transition to Thorium or CHTR, which would not. The whole point of the three step is to get U-233 fissile which would finally allow us to transition to Thorium. Traveling wave would have same problem.

Also note Three-stage is specifically outside 1-2-3, so we can't get foreign fissile for it. This is why we are forced to buy $10 Billion foreign reactors. Also why reprocessing is denied to us. Lots of thought has gone into 1-2-3 to keep India's access to fissile very very controlled.

WRT the coolant, it is not fully decided yet, they are not sure what the best one would be. That is what the prototype is all about. Lead-Bismuth is the best suggestion so far, but it has its own challenges as Bismuth attacks most piping material. Several navies have experimented with Lead-Bismuth reactors and the experience has not been a good one. There have been many strong suggestions of CHTR moving to a gas cooled one.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Philip » 28 Dec 2011 08:59

Culling through the media today,one report has anti-N fuhrer Udaykumar mentioning that in the key hamlet where there are max protests about "3600 families" of mainly fisher folk are all Xians.Just 50 families are Hindus,who revolted/converted over the issue of offering sharks fins to the Church if caught).These 50 families built a small temple opposite the church where the main demos are held.
This revealing statistic gives one an idea why the locals are adopting a "lemming like" attitude,as just like the mullahs in extremist mosques preach their hardline extremist policies,here too the locals similarly have to obey the diktats of their priests of the "Church".Its influence cannot be ignored.

A second report about 2crores worth of heroin caught from an LTTE sympathiser,who is a middle-man for "several drug-dealing gangs in SL",say the police.The method was using the newly-started ferry service to smuggle drugs in,one route.Apart from the drugs,"communication eqpt." caught from him also revealed his LTTE connections.

Pres.Rajapakse has also given a lengthy interview to the Deccan Chronicle,in which he says that the "Tamil diaspora do not want a political settlement for fear of being returned to the island once total peace returned.He also said that the armed forces were still discovering LTTE arms caches and much demining work still remained.There is a lot for food for thought in the interview, best debated in the SL thread.
Last edited by Philip on 28 Dec 2011 09:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 28 Dec 2011 09:22

Theo - Bhabha's 3 step was conceived back in 60s . Conditions are a lot different now.

Back than we had-

1) limited uranium
2)no reprocessing capability
3largest usable thorium .

Now we have more uranium . More may be found..

>>Also note Three-stage is specifically outside 1-2-3, so we can't get foreign fissile for it. This is why we are forced to buy $10 Billion foreign reactors. Also why reprocessing is denied to us. Lots of thought has gone into 1-2-3 to keep India's access to fissile very very controlled.

Au contraire , our reproceesing capabilities are rapidly expanding. So is our wgpu. By 2020 we ll be able to reprocess 2000 tons . I have already posted the links to these before. That ll give us enough weapons grade fissile material every year for 50 + warheads .

Right to reprocess is very clearly mentioned in the 123 agreement. We have the right to reprocess.

http://www.state.gov/p/sca/rls/139194.htm


ARTICLE 1 - NOTIFICATION AND EFFECTIVENESS OF RIGHT TO REPROCESS

1. The Government of India shall notify the Government of the United States of America in writing that it has established a facility (“the Facility”). The notification shall contain:

a. the name of the owner or operator of the Facility;

b. the name, type and location of the Facility and its planned capacity;

c. confirmation that pursuant to Paragraph 14(a) of the India-Specific Safeguards Agreement, as referenced in Article 10(2) of the Agreement for Cooperation, India has notified the Facility to the IAEA for application of IAEA safeguards and that relevant safeguards arrangements have been agreed pursuant to the India-Specific Safeguards Agreement with the IAEA;

d. such information as is available to the Government of India on the IAEA safeguards approach that is not classified as “Safeguards Confidential”; and

e. a confirmation that physical protection measures as required by Article 8 of the Agreement for Cooperation will be applied at the Facility.

Both Parties confirm that the provisions of this Article or any subsequent Article of these Arrangements and Procedures shall not be used to secure any proprietary or commercially sensitive information about the Facility.

2. The Government of the United States of America shall provide an acknowledgement to the Government of India no later than thirty days after receipt of the notification. This acknowledgement shall be limited to a statement that the notification has been received.

3. It is understood that the phrase “the Facility” throughout these Arrangements and Procedures is intended to refer to two new national reprocessing facilities established by the Government of India to reprocess U.S.-obligated nuclear material and any other safeguarded nuclear material and dedicated to the reprocessing and, as required, other alteration in form or content of safeguarded nuclear material under IAEA safeguards, as well as any additional new national facilities established and agreed to in accordance with paragraph 4 of this Article.

4. The Government of the United States of America and the Government of India understand the need for sufficient indigenous Indian capacity to reprocess or otherwise alter in form or content, under IAEA safeguards, U.S.-obligated nuclear material subject to the Agreement for Cooperation. Based on this understanding, the Parties agree to pursue the steps necessary, consistent with their national laws, to permit reprocessing or alteration in form or content of nuclear material subject to the Agreement for Cooperation at one or more new additional national facilities in India, (beyond the two facilities provided for in these Arrangements and Procedures) established by the Government of India and dedicated to the reprocessing and, as required, other alteration in form or content of safeguarded nuclear material under IAEA safeguards. These Arrangements and Procedures shall apply to such facilities upon successful completion of these steps, unless otherwise agreed by the Parties.





I ll get back on pebbles bed reactor tomorrow. feeling sleepy.

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 28 Dec 2011 12:45

G,

Yes, lots of things have changed since Bhabha but the AEC continues on that same path to this day, 50+ years later. The vast bulk of resources are directed to the Three-stage effort leaving very little for other research.

I think some of the components of that agreement may have been revised/amended/canceled recently when Congress balked on giving us re-process/enrichment equipment. I believe we are not allowed to reprocess using our equipment. Only NSG approved/inspected equipment which has conveniently been denied us.

The key thing to note is with reprocess we get Pu-239. Unfortunately Pu-239 can not easily prime our Thorium stockpile. We are investing in increasing reprocess technology which should give us a lot more Pu-239. But we only plan to burn that Pu-239 in more PFBR type reactors. There is a vague idea that the PFBR at some point will breed U-233 from Thorium but all present designs call for breeding U-238 to Pu-239. Meaning we still are not really getting closer to priming our Thorium.

What we really need is enriched or pure U-233 or U-235. Both can be used to prime Thorium, though U-233 would be preferred. For this we need enrichment technology and access to 'cheap' mass enrichment plants. Enrichment is very very energy intensive and we don't have enough for commercial power plants. For instance the enrichment plant in Tennessee uses 3800 MW of electricity to process roughly 15,000 tonnes of natural uranium a year. Enough for about 80 reactors of 1000 MW each. That is the sort of capacity we need access to.

Please do comment on pebble bed. I'm always learning new things.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby gakakkad » 29 Dec 2011 16:58

>>I think some of the components of that agreement may have been revised/amended/canceled recently when Congress balked on giving us re-process/enrichment equipment. I believe we are not allowed to reprocess using our equipment. Only NSG approved/inspected equipment which has conveniently been denied us.

Not true. Bilateral agreements cannot be modified without consent of both the parties. What the media was talking about is the amendment in NSG to prevent transfer of enrichment/reproc. technology from NSG members to outsiders. It had nothing to do with indigenous technology. No international reule can prevent that. There is a catch however . US never agreed to give India or anyone else ENRT. Before the amendment India had already signed b/l agreements with Russia and France that included the transfer of ENRT. Now NSG is a "voluntary" body . Amendment in NSG cannot alter previously signed b/l agreements. So Indian agreement with france and Russia holds good .


Regarding pebble bed reactor , Its basic principle is similar to thtr-300 in germany in 1980s . That design had flaws which have been rectified in the Indian version. Many people criticise germany for stopping the reactor.(decommissioning will cost billions.running it would have been cheaper) Over all this is considered safer than the existing designs.Hydrogen is a by-product. Main purpose is electricity.

I disagree with some of your calculations . Get back later . prof saab is coming to take round in ICU.I better start staring at the patient multi para monitors . don't want a fatwa against internet in the ICU . (it helps us keep in touch with latest treatment guidelines :P )

Theo_Fidel

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Dec 2011 23:10

gakakkad wrote:Not true. Bilateral agreements cannot be modified without consent of both the parties. What the media was talking about is the amendment in NSG to prevent transfer of enrichment/reproc. technology from NSG members to outsiders. It had nothing to do with indigenous technology. No international reule can prevent that. There is a catch however . US never agreed to give India or anyone else ENRT. Before the amendment India had already signed b/l agreements with Russia and France that included the transfer of ENRT. Now NSG is a "voluntary" body . Amendment in NSG cannot alter previously signed b/l agreements. So Indian agreement with france and Russia holds good .)


I don't think this is true at all. It certainly is not what all the analysts have pointed out. NSG agreements clearly supersede 123. Not just by a little but by a lot. During MMS recent vacation in Russia, even the Russians refused to supply ENR/Processing equipment without NSG say so. You really want to trust the French? Read this editorial for instance in The Hindu. I don't see how there can be any quibbling.

The Nuclear Suppliers Group may well have been trying to tighten the general rules for the international transfer of enrichment and reprocessing equipment and technology (ENR) but its insistence on membership of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty as a condition of supply has effectively punched a hole in the historic waiver India negotiated with the cartel in 2008.


If I understand BARC correctly the CHTR is meant for providing fuel in far flung areas. So far mostly liquid/gas type fuels. The key is the word 'compact'. I guess you could make electricity as well but what would be the point in far flung ares with no grid or access to electric equipment.

The THTR-300 was producing electricity at 35 cents a kw back in the 80's. The German govt. got tired of paying the subsidy. This is a common problem with all non-conventional, i.e. non BWR/PHWR type reactors. Due to additional activity required to keep it operational it quickly becomes un-economic. If one did the math on what the electricity from the PFBR is going to cost, we would all be staggered by the numbers involved. When I get the time I'll take a stab at it. Should not be too difficult.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Postby Tanaji » 30 Dec 2011 02:58

I believe we are not allowed to reprocess using our equipment.


I am curious: if indigenous uranium is used in a non safe guarded reactor, why cannot we reprocess?


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