Serial Blasts in Mumbai

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sum » 17 Jul 2011 13:50

After the Wednesday blasts, Abdullah Latif Rauf Shaikh went to the Mahatma Phule police station to inform policemen that he had overheard four men on Monday discussing plans to plant bombs in Mumbai at the Kalyan guest house hotel, opposite the railway station.

I feel this might just have been a IB exercise to test the Mumbai police alertness. Else, doubt that the real name of the informer would ever be revealed.

IIRC, IB used to send people dressed as LeT members asking for shelter into madarsas in Gujarat for a few years after the riots to check out the reaction of the Madarssa leaders.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sum » 17 Jul 2011 13:53

FWIW, a retd Deputy Dir of IB was on a show on TV yesterday about security and he mentioned right at the end of the show ( after all and sundry had spit venom against the agencies):
"Just to make people feel a bit happy in all this gloom but i can assure you that our agencies aren't the greatest in the world but they certainly aren't as bad as being portrayed in the media since last few days and the amount of work/info they have is simply mind-blowing."

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sum » 17 Jul 2011 14:11

Pratyush wrote:NDTV reports

Mumbai blasts probe: Man dies after questioning

His brother is currently in jail for another set of bomb blasts

Mumbai blasts: Faiz died of hypertension, says medical report

Mumbai: Hours after Faiz Usmani, the brother of Ahmedabad blasts suspect Afzal Usmani, died following interrogation by the Maharashtra ATS in the July 13 Mumbai blasts case, a preliminary post-mortem report said the man in question had no marks of external injuries.

Doctors have already said Faiz died of brain haemorrhage. Faiz died at 1:30 am while undergoing treatment for hemiparesis and hypertension, doctors at the Lokmanya Tilak Hospital here said.




Thanks heavens didn't happen in Gujarat and happened in a "secular state" else we all know what the news would have been for the next 1 week ( Hint: the words communal and fascist will turn up a lot)

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby abhishek_sharma » 17 Jul 2011 16:48

Probe role of terror groups, including Hindu outfits: Digvijay

Continuing his tirade against RSS, Congress leader Digvijay Singh on Sunday alleged that it was “making bomb factories” and demanded that role of all kinds of terror groups, including Hindu outfits, should be probed in connection with the Mumbai serial blasts.

“I have been saying that RSS was spreading terrorism in the country and it has been making bomb factories,” Mr. Singh told reporters.

When asked about his statement on Saturday not ruling out involvement of RSS in the Mumbai blasts, he said, “I only said that role of all kinds of terrorist organisations, including Hindu terror outfits, should be probed.”

The Congress general secretary had courted controversy on Saturday when he said that he does not rule out the involvement of Sangh in Mumbai serial blasts, evoking criticism and condemnation from BJP.

“I do not rule out anything. If they want evidence about Sangh’s involvement in terror activity, I have got evidence. But not in this case,” Mr. Singh had told the media.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Chandragupta » 17 Jul 2011 17:40

Good. This edit will take the entire CON party & the dienasty down pretty soon if he keeps on barking like this.
Last edited by archan on 18 Jul 2011 04:49, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Enough rope given. Banned. Anyone with a beating nationalist hearty, please vent your feelings but be prepared for mod action then.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Venkarl » 17 Jul 2011 17:49

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby gakakkad » 17 Jul 2011 18:05

During the cold war the British PM Harold Wilson was believed to be on USSR payrole. A french minister was also believed to be so. There were several defections also. It is quite possible that DOggy singh and several others are on ISI payrole. Sunramanian Swamy once twitted that PC is an agent himself. And that he does not say anything without any basis. How idiotic and left winged can one possibly be. And he surely knows he is making a fool of himself. Why would he persist with his nonsense? Maybe he gets paid for it. ISI will find it real tough to bribe an army guy. But bribing congress politicos is a piece of cake.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Arjun » 17 Jul 2011 18:51

Chandragupta wrote:Good. This bahanchod will take the entire CON party & the dienasty down pretty soon if he keeps on barking like this.

Why did the BJP not react by saying that Congress and Sonia's role in the blasts needs to be probed?....Why are they so pussy-footed in their response ?

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Chandragupta » 17 Jul 2011 18:58

Arjun wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Good. This bahanchod will take the entire CON party & the dienasty down pretty soon if he keeps on barking like this.

Why did the BJP not react by saying that Congress and Sonia's role in the blasts needs to be probed?....Why are they so pussy-footed in their response ?


And give the DDM the chance to do equal equal onlee?

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby ASPuar » 17 Jul 2011 19:00

This is so disgusting. This man is so antinational that I dont know what to say. He has dealt a death blow to our international stance that Pakistan is a state sponsor of terror. This entire UPA government with its Saffron Terror and Hindu terror bullcrap has ruined us. Thu!!!!

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby archan » 17 Jul 2011 19:11

So Diggy Singh has succeded in getting a user banned from BRF! :mrgreen:
Guys, cool down.
No bashing ANY faith.
No partisan politics.
This is about the blasts.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Arjun » 17 Jul 2011 19:19

Chandragupta wrote:And give the DDM the chance to do equal equal onlee?

I don't think so....the issue needs to be taken head on. And don't target Doggy who is obviously just a piece of excrement. Go for Sonia and accuse her of dragging the country down to the level of Pakistan, through the inadequacies of her government and the loose talk of her minions.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby hardeepsingh » 17 Jul 2011 19:19

ASPuar wrote:This is so disgusting. This man is so antinational that I dont know what to say. He has dealt a death blow to our international stance that Pakistan is a state sponsor of terror. This entire UPA government with its Saffron Terror and Hindu terror bullcrap has ruined us. Thu!!!!



Dont worry too much about our international stance. Internationally people know reality. Whether it is in their interest sometimes to not acknowledge reality is another matter. Digvijay's statements dont ruin our international stance. There were many cuky Americans, some fairly prominent, who actually disseminated similar statements after 9/11, that it was the US government that perpetuated 9/11. Did not dilute US's stance. Our stance is more damaged by our own internal weaknesses and weakness of the country as a whole, which gives the outsiders the feeling that they can say and do anything to India and get away with it. No one, internationally, pays any attention to Digvijay Singh or even the Gandhi family for that matter. The Gandhi family is a joke internationally and everyone knows how corrupt and self serving they are and even the Gandhi family themselves qutie shamelessly accept their status as corrupt buffons internationally. The leader of India, particularly in today's environment, should be considered at the same level as any European Head of State. Have you seen any kind of respect accorded to Sonia Gandhi in international circles or the press ?

I am new so I think I posted this in the wrong thread. I know cross posting is possible, but dont know how. Therefore, I am just pasting my post from the other thread here, as it is relevent to this discussion here.

Admins can feel free to remove anything they dont think belong in this thread.

Hello everybody.

Been going through the posts. Conventional wisdom on this forum seems to be as follows:

1) Pakistan's nuclear weapons deter us from retaliating overtly against it

2) Covert action is possible.

3) But it is largely due to American pressure that India doesnt retaliate, either covertly or in a limited overt fashion which doesnt have much of a chance to escalate into a nuclear flare up

Am I correct in my reading ?

What is the considered opinion here ? What weight would you assign to the following factors in India not retaliating.

1. US pressure to not retaliate

2. India lacking the specific military capability to retaliate in the manner which is both effective and not invite a nuclear escalation

3. India lacking even basic military capability because of massive corruption in the procurement process within the Defense department among both the civilian officers and high level military officers who oversee such procurements, year after year, decade after decade and retaliation will thoroughly expose it, like Kargil did to a certain extent (some say Kargil was not escalated into a wider war by India due to the lack of such capabilities and the fear of being exposed)

4. No proactive and strategic thinking among the politicians

5. Lack of proactive and strategic thinking among the Indian armed forces and intelligence officials and whatever little there is, is not listened to by politicians, as the armed forces have very little say in any kind of political decision making in India

6. Lack of genuine and sustained outrage among Indian populace in general, with only a few educated middle class, salaried or professional and nationalist "Macaulytes" (macaulytes come in two flavors, the traitors and the nationalists) feeling this extreme urge to "hit back" and in general the overwhelming "OBCs" and "Dalits" for lack of better terms (which together form roughly 70% of Indian population) being totally apathetic to any sense of nationalism and having no interest to hit back (I am stating reality as it exists, not as everyone would like for it to be, which is what explains Digvijay Singh's getting away with statements made on behalf of Sonia and Rahul which pander to this group)

7. Indian political leaders not wanting to risk losing their positions of power and disrupt their "business as usual", which is bribe taking, more bribe taking and then even more excessvie bribe taking, thus using the Pak nuclear weapons as a very welcome and convenient excuse for not striking back and then blaming the bad old US for pressuring them into restraint, with a gullible Indian public ready to believe anything about the Americans

Also, how many feel that the Indian nationalists are the most inept nationalists anywhere in history and have completely failed to grasp the causes of India's failure time after time and thereby failing to come up with strategies to reverse the trend.

Also, there seems to be another conventional wisdom here. That India is a young country and one should have patience and wait. Things will fix themselves over time. How many of you are comfortable with the idea of waiting another five years, ten years, twenty years, or even longer ? Waiting will be a much more paletable idea if one saw strategic thinking among policy makers and had faith in a strategic plan even if the plan is a 50 year plan. Problem with waiting right now is that no one has any strategic thinking and there is no plan and therefore it is very difficult to have faith in nothing. Waiting will therefore, simply result in more of the same, actually worse by the day and getting nowhere, while the gullible keep parroting the talking points of those narrow ruling elites whose interest it is in to continue more of the same.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Lalmohan » 17 Jul 2011 19:27

sonia gandhi is not an elected official nor civil servant, so she would not qualify for inclusion in state visits abroad and would not receive any protocol. however, all foreign visitors to india do make it a point to meet with her at some stage of their itenerary. meeting senior politicians including the opposition is generally considered normal

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Arjun » 17 Jul 2011 19:29

archan wrote:No partisan politics.

Archan ji,

No partisan politics would have been fine before Diggy's comment, but now that the INC has itself indulged in partisan politics over the blasts - don't you think Diggy's comments need to be discussed, either here or on another thread?

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby archan » 17 Jul 2011 19:30

Arjun wrote:
archan wrote:No partisan politics.

Archan ji,

No partisan politics would have been fine before Diggy's comment, but now that the INC has itself indulged in partisan politics over the blasts - don't you think Diggy's comments need to be discussed, either here or on another thread?

Sure, feel free to discuss as much as you want, but keep this thread about blasts not about Congress.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby ramana » 17 Jul 2011 19:45

Discuss Doggy Singh but not his party.

Then its a person and his personality and not his party.

Note Archanji did not edit the post.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby gakakkad » 17 Jul 2011 19:47

Arjun wrote:
archan wrote:No partisan politics.

Archan ji,

No partisan politics would have been fine before Diggy's comment, but now that the INC has itself indulged in partisan politics over the blasts - don't you think Diggy's comments need to be discussed, either here or on another thread?



I have started a thread in GDF where this might be discussed. Unless of course someone IB4TL's it. However the title is logical and abides by rules of posting.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6020

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sanjeevpunj » 17 Jul 2011 19:52

^^^Nice try, but Forum Mod TLed it before anyoneone even said IB4TL! You could do all this in the Whines thread anyway, so why start a new one!

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby gakakkad » 17 Jul 2011 20:06

^^ yup the thread met its 72 before even before it learnt the facts of life. Wonder how it will fare in Jannat. (trash can :) )

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby vera_k » 17 Jul 2011 20:10

hardeepsingh wrote:Dont worry too much about our international stance. Internationally people know reality. Whether it is in their interest sometimes to not acknowledge reality is another matter. Digvijay's statements dont ruin our international stance. There were many cuky Americans, some fairly prominent, who actually disseminated similar statements after 9/11, that it was the US government that perpetuated 9/11.


Digvijay Singh and A R Antulay are interesting only because of the official positions they have held and hold now. Both have been Chief Ministers and Singh is the political manager for Rahul Gandhi and an aspiring home minister. So dismissing them merely as crazy kooks is wrong, since what they say WILL become India's official position when they (specially Singh) assume office.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Arjun » 17 Jul 2011 20:14

hardeepsingh wrote:Dont worry too much about our international stance. Internationally people know reality. Whether it is in their interest sometimes to not acknowledge reality is another matter. Digvijay's statements dont ruin our international stance. There were many cuky Americans, some fairly prominent, who actually disseminated similar statements after 9/11, that it was the US government that perpetuated 9/11.

Did these American kooks' statements ever get lead story status on NY Times ? Check out timesofindia.com

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sunnyP » 17 Jul 2011 20:28

Arjun wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Good. This bahanchod will take the entire CON party & the dienasty down pretty soon if he keeps on barking like this.

Why did the BJP not react by saying that Congress and Sonia's role in the blasts needs to be probed?....Why are they so pussy-footed in their response ?



Because they are dinosaurs with no direction. One day a party 'leader' will claim the PM is an 'honest man' and Sonia 'ji' deserves the utmost respect. The next day we'll hear them proclaiming that the current Congress government is the most corrupt in the history of India. No wonder the people are confused when the opposition themselves are confused.

And round and round we go.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2011 20:33

I think it is important not to confuse politics with truth. Digvijay Singh says things deliberately to aggravate and provoke the very people whom he wants to aggravate and provoke. Reactions to that are normal and to be expected. The country actually listens to its voters and if, for example a majority of Indians (say over 30% in a poll) want all Muslims to be killed then that can be made national policy because that is how one man one vote democracy and the "first past the post" system works.

The difference between an individual and a politician is that the politician has a better sense of what 30% of the people are likely to agree with, or at least not disagree and will say things to please that group. To hell with anyone else.

Getting banned from BRF is an indicator of the most ineffective manner of voicing an opinion. Retaining a voice on here is a bit better - but a bit of political horse-sense is required to say things in a way that does not rub too many people up the wrong way. That means that when you smell a fart don't say instantly "Who farted" lest everyone say "You did!"

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Arjun » 17 Jul 2011 20:53

shiv wrote:I think it is important not to confuse politics with truth. Digvijay Singh says things deliberately to aggravate and provoke the very people whom he wants to aggravate and provoke. Reactions to that are normal and to be expected. The country actually listens to its voters and if, for example a majority of Indians (say over 30% in a poll) want all Muslims to be killed then that can be made national policy because that is how one man one vote democracy and the "first past the post" system works.

The difference between an individual and a politician is that the politician has a better sense of what 30% of the people are likely to agree with, or at least not disagree and will say things to please that group. To hell with anyone else.

Getting banned from BRF is an indicator of the most ineffective manner of voicing an opinion. Retaining a voice on here is a bit better - but a bit of political horse-sense is required to say things in a way that does not rub too many people up the wrong way. That means that when you smell a fart don't say instantly "Who farted" lest everyone say "You did!"

Thankfully there are Indians who are not as cynical about the system as you are...and more power to them ! Idealism is what will eventually change this country, including the idealism of the gentleman who got banned. All in a good cause ...

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby hardeepsingh » 17 Jul 2011 21:07

Thankfully there are Indians who are not as cynical about the system as you are...and more power to them ! Idealism is what will eventually change this country, including the idealism of the gentleman who got banned. All in a good cause ...


Banning ? People get banned on this forum ? Why ? That is akin to a medeival method, isnt it ?

Let people's ideas and words be countered by better ideas and words. In worst case scenarios, very very rarely, moderators can delete the posts that make blatant personal attacks on other posters. Personal attacks against public figures should be alright, I guess.

There is no reason to ban..........which is uncomfortably reminiscent of book burning or worst, witch buring.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby ASPuar » 17 Jul 2011 21:08

Lalmohan wrote:sonia gandhi is not an elected official nor civil servant, so she would not qualify for inclusion in state visits abroad and would not receive any protocol. however, all foreign visitors to india do make it a point to meet with her at some stage of their itenerary. meeting senior politicians including the opposition is generally considered normal


I dont know what your point is, but Sonia Gandhi is an elected member of parliament from the Rae Bareilly Lok Sabha constituency...

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Mort Walker » 17 Jul 2011 21:08

Lets not get too sidetracked with Digvijay Singh, as former CM of MP, had he made statements like this while CM he would have caused a ruckus in the state assembly. DS is a wannabe protege of the now dead Arjun Singh who used communal divide and corruption to get where he got as a bigwig in the Kangress. Recall AS role as CM in the Bhopal gas tragedy, reservation controversy, Churhat lottery case and Kerwa Dam palace. Finally falling out with PM PVNR. DS is trying to do the same, but in the near future no one will care about him politically as his political life is much shorter than AS.

More importantly, if the authorities don't get to the bottom of this case - in terms of finding out who and when this was planned, there will be big trouble next time. Why? Next time will be a dirty nuke bomb. There is enough medical nuclear waste and Co60 floating around in metal scrap yards in large metro areas for terrorists to gather up. The bombs being small may not kill many, but they will spread radioactive material over a large area and make clean up a big mess. It will be a major radiological hazard. If these types of scooter bombs go off, then the crowded business areas of Mumbai would be closed off for months resulting in significant financial loss.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sanjeevpunj » 17 Jul 2011 21:13

Reminds me of the film Rambo where Sylvester Stallone uses nuke tipped arrows.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Rahul M » 17 Jul 2011 21:35

gakakkad wrote:^^ yup the thread met its 72 before even before it learnt the facts of life. Wonder how it will fare in Jannat. (trash can :) )

the 'facts of life' aka proofs come first and the accusations come after. not the other way around which is a nice way to set up BR for a legal defamation case. don't think that the do's and don'ts of real life don't apply to the internet.

people can still open a thread on similar lines as long as the proofs come before the accusations.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby gakakkad » 17 Jul 2011 21:38

Rahulmullah I get your point. No way should anyone involve BR in a lawsuit. However "facts of life" was meant in a humorous context in the above post. :)

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Mort Walker » 17 Jul 2011 21:41

sanjeevpunj wrote:Reminds me of the film Rambo where Sylvester Stallone uses nuke tipped arrows.


This is not a joke or comparison to any crappy fictional film. Low level nuclear waste is reality.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby abhijitm » 17 Jul 2011 21:54

I wonder why RSS is not suing Digvijay Singh?? He keeps on making baseless provocative claims and nobody is doing anything about it!

RSS making bomb factories

"I have been saying that RSS was spreading terrorism in the country and it has been making bomb factories," Singh told reporters.


sometimes inaction or ignorance can get translated into acceptance.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby sanjeevpunj » 17 Jul 2011 22:01

Mort Walker wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:Reminds me of the film Rambo where Sylvester Stallone uses nuke tipped arrows.


This is not a joke or comparison to any crappy fictional film. Low level nuclear waste is reality.

Of course, it is not a joke, i didn't laugh. The memory got triggered, so out came a response. Dirty nuke tipped bullets are a reality by the way.Depleted uranium based weapons are a reality. These so-called "depleted uranium" shells are used to augment the destructive power of certain ordnance. While depleted uranium is not capable of undergoing atomic fission (ie. in a nuclear weapon), it has chemical properties that are useful for the military. Uranium tipped shells are extremely dense (uranium is the heaviest naturally occurring element), which makes it useful to destroy tanks and similar structures. Uranium also bursts into a hot flame upon impact, which has the side effect of generating lots of radioactive dust.
Last edited by sanjeevpunj on 17 Jul 2011 22:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby abhijitm » 17 Jul 2011 22:07

archan wrote:No partisan politics.
This is about the blasts.

I respectfully disagree. DS comments were about mumbai blast and, in my opinion, if this thread is dedicated to recent mumbai blasts then all investigations, politics (including partisan) and other repercussions around this events should get consolidated and discussed here. Thats the only way we will be able to cover the event in full, and will help us to comprehend how India as a country is responding disaster in all different angles. Although I agree that restrain to be maintained while responding emotionally so that entire thread is not derailed.

JMT.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2011 22:20

Arjun wrote:Thankfully there are Indians who are not as cynical about the system as you are...and more power to them ! Idealism is what will eventually change this country, including the idealism of the gentleman who got banned. All in a good cause ...


Idealists are the martyrs behind whom politicians hide.

The idealist says : "This is bad". The politician latches on to that saying, "He says this is bad, and I agree"

Chandragupta has martyred himself on BRF over the words of a despicable politician. I think he did himself a disfavor. I am sure not one of us agrees with Divijay Singh's political opprobrium opportunism - but retaining a voice is the act of a mullah. Martyrdom is for mujahids.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby CRamS » 17 Jul 2011 22:22

I agree that DogSingh should be ignored. And I would hope that DDM plays their role than feeding his nonsense. Reason being that if DogSingh's poison assumes a life of its own, at some point, however much passive Hindu nationalits have been to date, somebody is going to physically harm him, and in response, as per all the gaming they have undertaken, Kiyani/Paasha will activate their boys in India to start revenge attacks and we will have a communal flare up. So, unless the Mumbai cops come up with susepcts, most likley Kiyani/Paasha proxies like IM, which would then automatically silence Doggy, or Doggy is ignored, I see a dangerous path ahead by giving too much credence to him.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby shiv » 17 Jul 2011 22:32

CRamS wrote:Kiyani/Paasha proxies like IM,


For Pakistan the happiest, most "ideal" scenario is a genuine Indian group with a grievance whom the Pakis can support. Over the last two decades the Pakis found such groups twice and created havoc in India, but eventually botched it because Pakis are morons. Khalistanis were the first group and the hurri-rats are the other group.

There is a possibility that there are disgruntled Indian Muslim groups. These would be ideal fodder for Kiyani and co. But we need to differentiate between people with a fundamental grievance in India being supported by Kiyani versus a group set up by Kiyani and co and infiltrated in by Pakistan (like Kasab). Kasabs have a smaller following in India but local groups with grievances can develop a bigger following. It is necessary to know what is going on.

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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby abhijitm » 17 Jul 2011 22:33

^ ignore if he is nomad. If he is former chief minster, current general secretary of the ruling party then thats a serious stuff. A nonsense at that level must be stopped.

Karna_A
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Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai

Postby Karna_A » 17 Jul 2011 22:56

abhijitm wrote:^ ignore if he is nomad. If he is former chief minster, current general secretary of the ruling party then thats a serious stuff. A nonsense at that level must be stopped.


What Kangress is trying to do is to be all things to all people and that's where DS comes in picture. There are already raids happening to all SIMI members and they will continue and Kangress will not stop these.
However to blunt the backlash from IM as surely there will be some innocent IMs also trapped in this roundup, Kangress has this idiot robot in DS who will burt out whatever Ahmed Patel will tell him.
So Kangress is trying to give something to all its constituencies.

There is no point in taking him seriously, though his statements border on being traitorous.
It's better to ignore what is being said and try to analyze what action is happening, as actions matter more than mere statements.
He is just a toy in hands of higher command.
"Jitne chabbi bhari ram ne, utna chale Khilona"


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