News reports saying It was not a remote-controlled blast. So timers it is. Curious about the timer design now. Shades of German Bakery bombing in Pune here.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 10:17
by gakakkad
PratikDas wrote:
Sravan, I'm sorry, you cannot pay people to be patriotic. It is common knowledge that people can be paid to be unpatriotic and dogma can be fed to the ignorant to make want to sacrifice their lives.
Fear is a good demotivator, but even the fear of Guantanamo keeps the only rational at bay. The dogma-fed irrational will still be ready to strap bombs to his chest and head for his honeymoon.
it is not true. Why does that happen ? Because we fail to indoctrinate concept of India as a nation.We fail to inculcate the feeling of nationalism. Look at Israel and how they manage to get people serve IDF voluntarily and efficiently. As Dr Shiv pointed out our textbooks are filled with crap about the benevolence Aurangzeb. I remember my class 9th social science text . They did not label Muslim league the scum they were. The section of Kashmir is viewed from the PAKI perspective. In economics explanations were given as to why india cannot achieve 5.5% growth rate. (even though we achieved the same) . I found loop holes in the airport security of Baroda. I reported it to airport authority. And my uncles and elders said "shu jamelaa ma pade chhe. taara baap nu shu. TU TO america ma safe havano" . (WHY DO U GET INVOLVED , WHAT goes your father .U will be safe in the US). In US if I write mails to senator on paki related issues or email sections of br forum discussion( like the one on balochistan) my relatives tell me why do I take the pain. They feel that I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because I had a close shave once. But it is crap. I have been lurking in BR for a decade now. Some unknown factors made me a nationalist. Somehow those factors failed to touch the rest of my acquaintances. Thats because they have not been educated.
The signs were already there, that jehadi elements were active in Mumbai. Emails received after the Jama Masjid firing in Delhi (September, 2010) Varanasiblast (December, 2010) were mailed from Mumbai, a strong indication that a new group of jehadis had been in existence in the financial capital of the country.
...
According to sources, it could be conclusively said that at least two groups of jehadis are active-one in north India, which carried out the Jama Masjid firing and Varanasi blast and the second in western India.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh spoke with Maharashtra Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan and directed him to keep the PMO posted on the developments. Singh also spoke with Union Home Minister P Chidambaram and asked him to do “everything needful in the matter”.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 10:44
by PratikDas
gakakkad wrote:
PratikDas wrote:
Sravan, I'm sorry, you cannot pay people to be patriotic. It is common knowledge that people can be paid to be unpatriotic and dogma can be fed to the ignorant to make want to sacrifice their lives.
Fear is a good demotivator, but even the fear of Guantanamo keeps the only rational at bay. The dogma-fed irrational will still be ready to strap bombs to his chest and head for his honeymoon.
it is not true. Why does that happen ? Because we fail to indoctrinate concept of India as a nation.We fail to inculcate the feeling of nationalism. Look at Israel and how they manage to get people serve IDF voluntarily and efficiently. As Dr Shiv pointed out our textbooks are filled with crap about the benevolence Aurangzeb. I remember my class 9th social science text . They did not label Muslim league the scum they were. The section of Kashmir is viewed from the PAKI perspective. In economics explanations were given as to why india cannot achieve 5.5% growth rate. (even though we achieved the same) . I found loop holes in the airport security of Baroda. I reported it to airport authority. And my uncles and elders said "shu jamelaa ma pade chhe. taara baap nu shu. TU TO america ma safe havano" . (WHY DO U GET INVOLVED , WHAT goes your father .U will be safe in the US). In US if I write mails to senator on paki related issues or email sections of br forum discussion( like the one on balochistan) my relatives tell me why do I take the pain. They feel that I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because I had a close shave once. But it is crap. I have been lurking in BR for a decade now. Some unknown factors made me a nationalist. Somehow those factors failed to touch the rest of my acquaintances. Thats because they have not been educated.
gakakkad ji, if I may, you feel patriotic either because of how you were raised by your family (and God bless 'em), or because of some event(s) which led to some greater realisation. Neither of those are the result of what was written in the history books. A movie was recently made in China to further the nationalistic spirit. You can read about how that panned out here. Indoctrination doesn't work for too long.
Parents will tell their children what they believe in, which may not be what they were taught. By the time people become parents they might've long forgotten what they learned in their history books but they will remember the sum of their experiences and they will teach their children how not to make the same mistakes they made. As an example, being an Indian patriot might be considered a mistake by some 'Indians'. These would be the people in some parts of Delhi, and who knows where else, who openly fly the Pakistani flag in broad daylight at all times of the year. I don't have high hopes for any indoctrination strategy benefiting their children.
In your interactions with Chinese, probably the educated middle class, you might've found that they genuinely believe that China is forging ahead. That would be because, at least in their major capitals, there are visible and genuine improvements. You have to give people reason to believe, borne from positive life experiences, resulting from better infrastructure (physical, social, economic, etc.)
Patriotism must be a reward in itself. The moment you start paying me for it, I might choose to be a rotten b@$t@rd and report my innocent Muslim, Sikh or Assamese friend with false evidence of him being a terrorist, Khalistani or ULFA member, basically exploit any stereotype, just for the bounty. I become corrupt.
Admitting that there was no credible intelligence input on the Mumbai attack, Home Minister P. Chidambaram on Thursday did not rule out any angle, including the possibility of an attempt to derail Indo-Pak talks, behind the blasts.
Expressing “deep regret” to the people of Mumbai over the incident, he said the probe will not start on any “pre-determined assumptions” and will cover every terror group that has the capacity to carry out such strikes in the country.
Mr. Chidambaram said there wasno intelligence failureon the part of Central and state agencies.
“There was no specific intelligence input on this...whenever there is an intelligence, we share it with the states,” he told a 70-minute press conference here.
“We are not ruling out any angle. We will probe (the involvement of) every terror group...The investigations into the attack will not start on pre-determined assumptions,” he said.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 10:50
by Sanku
Boss, this is not about institutions, India has the ability to protect its own, it has done so in the past, it has also obtained vengenance.
The question is the INTENT.
No humint, no face recognition software no blah blah will play a role as long as Indians keep feeding the snake milk.
Its quite simple -- first fix that and then maybe it makes sense to talk about other stuff.
In spite of massive investments in investigation and counter-terrorism intelligence capabilities since 26/11, police forces across the country have made little progress in identifying the perpetrators of the five major urban attacks which have taken place since then.
The attacks include the February 2010 bombing of the German Bakery in Pune; the April 2010 serial bombings at the Chinnaswamy stadium in Bangalore, the drive-by shooting at Delhi's iconic Jama Masjid in September 2010, and the December 2010 bombing at the Shitla Ghat in Varanasi.
In May this year, a car bomb planted outside the Delhi High Court, mercifully caused no loss of life, apparently because the electronic circuits in the explosive device malfunctioned in the extreme heat.
The National Investigation Agency, set up with fanfare in 2009 to assuage public anger over a similar series of failures leading up to 26/11, has been assigned three of these cases — but it is yet to register success.
In 2010-2011, the latest annual report of the Union Home Ministry records, large investments were made in “new measures to meet the grave challenges posed by global terrorism.” The report says the MHA's major achievements include the establishment of new rapid-response hubs for the National Security Guard special forces, and the establishment of an online National Intelligence Grid.
Experts say the poor dividends from these measures were predictable. “Even though both State and Central governments have been scrambling to set up all kinds of special counter-terrorism forces,” says Dr. Ajai Sahni, Director of the Institute for Conflict Management in New Delhi, “there has been no real effort to improve intelligence-gathering and investigations capabilities from the bottom-up.”
“No computer,” he points out, “is going to help you solve a case if you've got no worthwhile data to feed into it”.
Flailing investigation
Investigators believe all the five attacks are linked to members of the Indian Mujahideen — the Lashkar-e-Taiba linked terrorist group responsible for a string of attacks in several Indian cities between 2006 and 2008. Little hard evidence, however, has emerged to support the claims, though police say the available intelligence suggests that the organisation has been attempting to regroup.
Part of that evidence, the Gujarat Police say, came from Danish Riyaz, a software engineer arrested earlier this year on charges of having participated in the Indian Mujahideen's 2008 strikes in Ahmedabad.
Mr. Riyaz, the Gujarat Police claim, left his job with a software firm in Hyderabad soon after the bombings, and moved to Ranchi. There, he is alleged to have helped harbour several fugitive Indian Mujahideen figures — key among them being Abdul Subhan Qureshi, who liaised among the multiple jihadist cells which carried out the organisation's urban bombing campaign.
Police say that Qureshi left Ranchi for Nepal in 2008, tasking Mr. Riyaz with finding new recruits for the organisation. He, however, did not, according to investigators, have any success. “Local members of the Students Islamic Movement of India,” an official associated with the investigation said, “did not want anything to do with his efforts.”
Eight other alleged Indian Mujahideen operatives, three of them linked to the 2008 attacks in Gujarat, were recently arrested by the Madhya Pradesh police. Investigators say interrogation of the three men, Mujeeb Sheikh, Muhammad Faisal and Mehboob Malik, did not throw up any specific information that fresh attacks were being planned.
Police have been accused, with some reason, of attempting to manufacture evidence in an effort to conceal the lack of progress.
In May 2010, Mangalore resident Abdul Samad Siddibapa was arrested on charges have having carried out the attack — an apparent breakthrough that led the Union Home Minister to publicly congratulate State and Central authorities on “apprehending the prime suspect within hundred days of the incident.”
The Hindu, however, first revealed that Mr. Siddibapa, who had been interrogated several times for his possible connections with the Indian Mujahideen, had no connection with the incident.
Fabrication of evidence
Later, Mumbai Police investigators claimed to have evidence linking Latur resident Mirza Himayat Baig to the Pune bombing. In a charge sheet filed in December, the investigators said Mr. Baig was ordered to carry out the attack by Muhammad Zarar Siddibapa — Mr. Siddibapa's younger brother, who closely resembles a man captured carrying the bomb by closed-circuit television cameras.
The charge sheet also states that Mr. Baig was trained by fugitive Lashkar operatives Fayyaz Ahmad Kagzi and Zabiuddin Ansari, who are alleged to have been responsible for a series of strikes
Lawyers for Mr. Baig have, however, since said that Mr. Baig was in the custody of the Maharashtra's anti-terrorism police at the time the German Bakery was bombed.
Fabrication of evidence by the police forces is alleged to have undermined past investigations into several Indian Mujahideen attacks. Investigations by The Hindu, for example, revealed credible evidence that Indian Mujahideen operatives likely carried out the 2006 bombings of Mumbai's suburban train system — an offence for which several other suspects are now being tried.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 10:56
by gakakkad
what does chidu mean by every terror group ?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:16
by PratikDas
Sanku wrote:Boss, this is not about institutions, India has the ability to protect its own, it has done so in the past, it has also obtained vengenance.
The question is the INTENT.
No humint, no face recognition software no blah blah will play a role as long as Indians keep feeding the snake milk.
Its quite simple -- first fix that and then maybe it makes sense to talk about other stuff.
Sanku ji, you are right in a way. We have to first fix the problem and get vengeance. However, the very next day we'll need all the HUMINT and other institutions working properly, with civilians aiding these institutions as well perhaps, to ensure we don't suffer a retaliatory attack, wouldn't you agree?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:16
by Ambar
shiv wrote:
Ambar wrote:
I disagree. US is safe because of micro-intelligence,
You mean they got that for free?
Define "free" ? If jihadi Somalians in the west-coast or jihadjanes,Zazis and Farooq Ahmeds on the east-coast are captured and severely prosecuted before they could do any damage, it is a testament to US internal intelligence, and a never-tiring attitude of hunting down terror perpetrators.
It would be incredulous to believe we can go on an all out war with Pakistan and hope terror attacks would stop when our intelligence and law-enforcement is in shambles! We have questions about how a rogue army major's hard-disk gets "erased" while in the custody of military intelligence that never gets an answer and then we wonder how did Pak manages to blow us up at will.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:20
by IndraD
If bigger attacks are on way as suggested by many, Mumbai has to be most alert followed by ahmedabad then Delhi. I hope our sea surviellance across west coast is on vigil. Some how getting Modi's state involved in whole thing will benefit TSP.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:23
by Sanku
PratikDas wrote:wouldn't you agree?
I believe that just as in case of laws we already have a lot that we dont use.
Lets first fully utilize the pieces we have.
We are actually in a regression mode, going after pieces which work (like Vanzara et al).
In this situation, what point to even discuss "improvements"
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:38
by PratikDas
Sanku wrote:
PratikDas wrote:wouldn't you agree?
I believe that just as in case of laws we already have a lot that we dont use.
Lets first fully utilize the pieces we have.
We are actually in a regression mode, going after pieces which work (like Vanzara et al).
In this situation, what point to even discuss "improvements"
Better to have vengeance than nothing at all (in the form of improvements, which are unlikely in the near future).
I'd have to agree. We've been silent for too long and too many times.
Added later: Vengeance itself would be an improvement.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:52
by Sravan
Let's look at this scientifically.
There is one person on Dawood's paycheck or at the most there will be a 100,000 goons. I can benefit 1 billion Indians and use that information sphere to focus the anger of the Indian public on the entire D-Company.
The idea is that you have a farmer - worker strategy and use data fusion concepts to check for consistency.
You cannot just simply accuse your friend of something to get money, but rather completely orthogonal metrics about that person need to confirm that behavior. meaning his involvement with x,y,z nodes which are reported as suspicious from nodes a, b, c independently coupled with your report will raise a flag.
There is no way you can exploit the system if I'm looking for orthogonal data.
An example could be how I verify train speeds on the inertial system in my company.
One sensor is a doppler sensor and uses sound based technology.
One sensor is a dual six axis accelerometer which calculates offsets from a GPS coordinates
One sensor could be directly GPS calculating offset in position.
The idea is that the data collection is completely independent of each other, yet if they are examining the same situation, they will spit out the same results.
As a node you can contribute information to the system, but if the system fails to confirm that information it will just throw it out as noise or junk.
PratikDas wrote:
Sravan wrote:
Why shouldn't I be rewarded to be patriotic, what's wrong with making a system that benefits those who are patriotic and punishes those who hurt India?
Haven't you heard of a person leaving one job for another one that pays more?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:56
by gakakkad
@ sravan which company ? how do u propose to market? the intelligence agencies already have this stuff. your idea is good but how many people own smartphones ?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 11:57
by Sravan
Of course you can. You get a salary in the army.
Patriotism can go hand in hand with success. The mentality that it doesn't is actually flawed. The goal should be to align the vectors of the country and the individual. That is achieved through systemic optimization, and this works reasonably well in a democracy.
In fact, I consider it patriotic when Indians get rich, start huge industries and dominate the market. Drop the dhimmi attitude and we'll beat Pakistan. We will get no where being self defeatist. Get the courage to stop Dawood and we can.
PratikDas wrote:
Sravan wrote:This is not true. D company can pay one individual 200 times the financial reward. Therefore he incurs the favor of one individual. I can pay a million Indians with valuable information, I will effectively saturate D-company.
Not only will I have more information that D-company, D-company will be confused on whom to attack or influence to break the system as it has no leader or centralized decision maker.
Sravan, I'm sorry, you cannot pay people to be patriotic. It is common knowledge that people can be paid to be unpatriotic and dogma can be fed to the ignorant to make them want to sacrifice their lives.
Fear is a good demotivator, but even the fear of Guantanamo keeps the only rational at bay. The dogma-fed irrational will still be ready to strap bombs to his chest and head for his honeymoon.
50 million and supposedly 180 million by 2015 with high concentrations in metropolitan areas. Trust me if you can prove that carrying a smart phone will help save your life in Mumbai, people will go out and buy it right away. You can't put a price on life. If we give them mechanism to beat terrorism, they will gladly use it. Let's tap into the Mumbai spirit and amplify how people help each other and move to a prevention based strategy in comparison to a reaction based one.
Solfice Research.
Here is the product video:
The idea is you have a network that can be polled for information by any node. Having an intelligent decentralized solution will give you the ability to quickly triangulate on suspicious individuals or individuals who don't belong. Also you get quick data on who was around the place, picked up passively as raw video or a person with a biometric fingerprint. You quickly eliminated who's suspicious from 10 thousand candidates to a couple hundred.
Any problem is much easier if you put filters to simplify the optimization required.
i'm the CEO
In this case my success has a direct correlation to possibly increasing safety for Indians.
gakakkad wrote:@ sravan which company ? how do u propose to market? the intelligence agencies already have this stuff. your idea is good but how many people own smartphones ?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 12:03
by gakakkad
when is it in market ?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 12:08
by Sravan
gakakkad wrote:when is it in market ?
4-5 months from now. you can just download it as an app free of charge, and as more people use it, it will get more accurate.
Some use cases for the tool:
Wiki tours, user submitted tours of cities.
Information exchange through biometric hashes
Matching individuals passively based on geo-filters
Facilitating meeting individuals who have mutual interests
Self marketing with augmented ads
Viral marketing of consumer products with rewards for participating in presence based marketing.
You earn credits for doing crowd sourced tasks, which you can use towards products / services / buying data.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 12:18
by Sravan
also if you have issues which you think need addressing. I have started my first stream to capture some import issues. Simply email [email protected] and it gets posted to our site. We scan through the emails and look at problems which can be solved using technology.
crowd source the tasks of finding out the names of the editors. Find out the investors of the company that help publish this book.
Do a background check on all financial transactions involving this company. Document and correlate patterns and then expose if you find any nexus.
Rinse... Repeat...
gakakkad wrote:
PratikDas wrote:
Sravan, I'm sorry, you cannot pay people to be patriotic. It is common knowledge that people can be paid to be unpatriotic and dogma can be fed to the ignorant to make want to sacrifice their lives.
Fear is a good demotivator, but even the fear of Guantanamo keeps the only rational at bay. The dogma-fed irrational will still be ready to strap bombs to his chest and head for his honeymoon.
it is not true. Why does that happen ? Because we fail to indoctrinate concept of India as a nation.We fail to inculcate the feeling of nationalism. Look at Israel and how they manage to get people serve IDF voluntarily and efficiently. As Dr Shiv pointed out our textbooks are filled with crap about the benevolence Aurangzeb. I remember my class 9th social science text . They did not label Muslim league the scum they were. The section of Kashmir is viewed from the PAKI perspective. In economics explanations were given as to why india cannot achieve 5.5% growth rate. (even though we achieved the same) . I found loop holes in the airport security of Baroda. I reported it to airport authority. And my uncles and elders said "shu jamelaa ma pade chhe. taara baap nu shu. TU TO america ma safe havano" . (WHY DO U GET INVOLVED , WHAT goes your father .U will be safe in the US). In US if I write mails to senator on paki related issues or email sections of br forum discussion( like the one on balochistan) my relatives tell me why do I take the pain. They feel that I suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because I had a close shave once. But it is crap. I have been lurking in BR for a decade now. Some unknown factors made me a nationalist. Somehow those factors failed to touch the rest of my acquaintances. Thats because they have not been educated.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 12:42
by nikhilarora
gakakkad wrote:
it is not true. Why does that happen ?
Gakakkad sir,
agreed 100 %. My cousin elder brother was involved in active politics in one of the top universities in India. I used to help him by running small errands. The look and feeling our parents gave us was "Politics is for dirty people, its for people who are corrupt". What most people gave was a disgusting look, and if you do well, like telling a person who is wetting the streets to stop, he would more often than not raise this "Young indecent people", in bengali called rockbaaj and create a ruckus. And people have accepted it, it is a norm now, its somewhere in the attitude to live with this system, wven if you are blown to bits by a bomb, what the hell, India is so big, it has so many people, who cares if someone gets blown somewhere as long as it is not in my backyard. The same thing applies everywhere from wetting the streets or doing any thing in public life. Finally, my cousin had to leave politics when he joined a plush job and nearly the whole party died down. Why do the most brilliant people shy away from politics?? Why isn't it an attractive thing as it is supposed to be the most patriotic thing?? Why is that the society insists on earning more money rather than being a nationalist and think about the nation, why?
Answer make it easier to earn more money in Politics by being patriotic and following rules.
Exponentially increase transparency by making social media the medium. Wikileaks for people who pee...
Police have already started to crowd source traffic violations. People need fear of prosecution, it doesn't have to be civil or institutional. The most effective method is social ostracism.
nikhilarora wrote:
gakakkad wrote:
it is not true. Why does that happen ?
Gakakkad sir,
agreed 100 %. My cousin elder brother was involved in active politics in one of the top universities in India. I used to help him by running small errands. The look and feeling our parents gave us was "Politics is for dirty people, its for people who are corrupt". What most people gave was a disgusting look, and if you do well, like telling a person who is wetting the streets to stop, he would more often than not raise this "Young indecent people", in bengali called rockbaaj and create a ruckus. And people have accepted it, it is a norm now, its somewhere in the attitude to live with this system, wven if you are blown to bits by a bomb, what the hell, India is so big, it has so many people, who cares if someone gets blown somewhere as long as it is not in my backyard. The same thing applies everywhere from wetting the streets or doing any thing in public life. Finally, my cousin had to leave politics when he joined a plush job and nearly the whole party died down. Why do the most brilliant people shy away from politics?? Why isn't it an attractive thing as it is supposed to be the most patriotic thing?? Why is that the society insists on earning more money rather than being a nationalist and think about the nation, why?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 13:08
by Sudip
My 2 cents:-- I had said this during 26/11 on BRF too:-- We need to deploy atleast two dozen weatherproof satellites with the highest possible resolution to monitor every square mile of indian territory, exclusive economic zone in the ocean and every square mile of every SAARC country 24X7X366 hours with heat, water, chemical signatures. I say ****** the moon mission. Moon can wait another 100 years. Deploy an entire battalion of people just to sit and stare at screen 24 hrs on sensitive zones. I see so many private 'guards' sitting and idling outside the gates of private properties so I am sure there is no dearth of manpower for this job. When chidu employed the national security database did he pursue this with NTRO and ISRO too? Any inputs by NTRO gurus?
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 13:11
by merlin
shiv wrote:
merlin wrote:What actually got my goat was that on the election day of the first state elections after 26/11, Mumbaikars actually voted the Congress-NCP coalition back into power! I mean WTF, don't people learn any lessons?
Which parties lost? Clearly the party that won has a better reputation than those that lost. Perhaps we can see what is considered good if we see who lost. Mumbaikars may have a choice between bullshit and worse than bullshit
And then the vultures....err politicians descend. With their NSG bodyguards.
If they do descend, they are damned, if they don't they are damned.
But the problem rests in the fact that their thick skins cannot let them comprehend why they are damned any which way.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 13:18
by Sravan
This approach is not scalable. The reaction time to process and analyze data of that throughput is ridiculously expensive. As we are finding out with twitter, you can get news much faster through crowd sourcing.
Ex. When Osama was killed, we got the news at a basketball game (the whole crowd went in a roar) before it even was broadcasted.
What you want is to leverage situational awareness at the moment to have a feedback loop that can react to the situation. Any data that is analyzed by an institution is useless by the time it is going to be leveraged.
Sudip wrote:My 2 cents:-- I had said this during 26/11 on BRF too:-- We need to deploy atleast two dozen weatherproof satellites with the highest possible resolution to monitor every square mile of indian territory, exclusive economic zone in the ocean and every square mile of every SAARC country 24X7X366 hours with heat, water, chemical signatures. I say ****** the moon mission. Moon can wait another 100 years. Deploy an entire battalion of people just to sit and stare at screen 24 hrs on sensitive zones. I see so many private 'guards' sitting and idling outside the gates of private properties so I am sure there is no dearth of manpower for this job. When chidu employed the national security database did he pursue this with NTRO and ISRO too? Any inputs by NTRO gurus?
An electronic circuit has been found from one of the victims. Perhaps it was used to explode the bombs.
3 people (seen in CCTV video) are suspects.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 13:20
by nikhilarora
Sudip wrote:My 2 cents:-- I had said this during 26/11 on BRF too:-- We need to deploy atleast two dozen weatherproof satellites with the highest possible resolution to monitor every square mile of indian territory, exclusive economic zone in the ocean and every square mile of every SAARC country 24X7X366 hours with heat, water, chemical signatures. I say ****** the moon mission. Moon can wait another 100 years. Deploy an entire battalion of people just to sit and stare at screen 24 hrs on sensitive zones.
Unfortunately we are not the decision makers. The decision makers are the Babus and Corrupt Netas. They will continue to have India in sucha state and act Deaf and Dumb. Can we discuss startegies to make them hear us?? or Atleast if we can contribute somehow to make the Internal state in India better?? Shiv sirjee, if you are there lurking somewhere, would you be interested in politics?? IMO, we need people sho can act and merely showing our corrupt babus their inefficiencies won't work cos they know themselves better than we do, they are more busy making money!!!
And our Home Minister says that there has been no intelligence failure. I guess we saw an example of "success" yesterday.
Re: Serial Blasts in Mumbai
Posted: 14 Jul 2011 13:37
by SRoy
shiv wrote:
Ambar wrote:
Cognitive dissonance prevents us from admitting that we live in a deeply corrupt society - where the corrupt are often patriotic. They will cheat you but they will not allow that Ammonium Nitrate through. But the system fails once in a while. A man accepts a bribe for a load of bleaching powder to pass a checkpost - but the bleaching powder is ammonium nitrate.
The system will not allow ammonium nitrate through. But for money, the system will allow bleaching powder through after payment of a bribe.
Allow me to add to this. First of I think you are giving too much due to GoI agencies.
Let me explain (all this based on numerous experiences with GoI procurement...many that deals with security).
Say one of the departments float a tender to procure a (hypothetical) device that can detect ammonium nitrate in bags, wooden crates, suitcases and what not...by a mere swipe of the device, just like metal detectors.
5 vendors bid go for the bid. 3 vendors comply with the requirements. The rest of the two vendors not just comply, but also show extra detection features i.e. they cover scenarios the GoI department had not even thought of, some outlier example.
However, the 2 vendors with extra product features will not pay bribes, but the 3 with just the necessary compliance shall readily pay with zar, zoru and zamzam.
Do you know what happens next? Who gets to supply "security infrastructure"?
Should we be surpised that your "ammonium nitrate" trucks slips through in an one in a million scenario?
CCTV's in highly sensitive/riot prone areas that goes off network, reboots or worse simply hangs everyday...to give you an example.
I never said, this will be a fool proof way to solve all problems of the world, but this could certainly solve 99.9% problems.
Sravan wrote:Ex. When Osama was killed, we got the news at a basketball game (the whole crowd went in a roar) before it even was broadcasted.
If you have been following news, sat and drone intelligence was fundamental in killing osama, i know flying drones over india or any other country would be hard and expensive but stationing a geo-stationary satellite is not. Using satellites data feed from previous days feed, one could have seen the people visiting the area on a daily basis and corroborated that with other humint sources and that would have been vital. this not only significantly complements surveillance cam based intelligence but can also act as a replacement. I remember reading a news some weeks back of how half the surveillance cams installed in delhi shopping areas went malfunctional or the police was simply unable to monitor them 24X7. satellites wont go malfunctional that often. satellites technology today can read number plates. we need it bad. isro's first goal was development of the country and then scientific exploration. remember US drones and sat tech monitored a 'tall man' walking about inside the walls of his compound for days before they finally decided to nab him. This could have helped in tracing back to the perpetrators and negating their existence but we again lost that chance.
nikhilarora wrote:Unfortunately we are not the decision makers. The decision makers are the Babus and Corrupt Netas. They will continue to have India in sucha state and act Deaf and Dumb. Can we discuss startegies to make them hear us?? or Atleast if we can contribute somehow to make the Internal state in India better?? Shiv sirjee, if you are there lurking somewhere, would you be interested in politics?? IMO, we need people sho can act and merely showing our corrupt babus their inefficiencies won't work cos they know themselves better than we do, they are more busy making money!!!
What decision is needed to blast away 20 sats? how is it related to corruption? did corruption have anything to do with launching chandrayaan? For this one needs flush money:- we got that, good space resources:- we got that. I understand critical optical instruments for surveillance might be off-limits due to export control on ISRO, but I dont think that should be hard to procure. This is one of the most cleanest, least riskiest steps we can take without any sides on the table having any problem. and it will go a long way in boosting security.
This needs to be done on a war footing. We are a country of engineers. We thump our chest about reaching the moon and we couldnt launch a dozen geo-stationary satellites yet? Israel mastered drones for their national security. What did we do? Make the enemy know that we are watching every district every gali nukkad of theirs 24X7. Even if ass-faq kiyani wipes his ass, he should know we are watching him from the sky.
Hours after Chidamabaram's statement, union home secretary RK Singh briefing media persons in Delhi, said that the IEDs used for blasts in Mumbai were not crude and showed a certain degree of sophistication.
The home secretary also gave details of the places were the bombs were kept by the terrorists.
The bomb at Opera House was hidden under garbage while at Dadar, it was placed over a bus shelter, he said. At Zaveri Bazar, the bomb was concealed under an umbrella near a motorcycle, he added.
Earlier addressing a press conference in Mumbai, Chidamabram had said the explosion at Dadar was of low intensity but the other two at Opera House, Zaveri Bazar were of high intensity.
He also revealed that the blasts were not remote-triggered.
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He refused to accept any intelligence failure and said that there was no specific or credible input about the Wednesday terror strikes.
