India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 17 Dec 2013 23:38

rsingh wrote:
putnanja wrote:India should also revoke visas of the teachers in American school within the US embassy area. If they want, let them send their kids to local schools! There are more than one way to skin the cat. Just keep at it till the US realizes its folly

Cant do that. What they are looking for is do the drama teacher do extra earning like being guide for the Americans or taking extra English classes for locals etc


er, I didn't get what you are trying to say. What is it exactly that the US citizens working in american school do that their visa can't be revoked?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 17 Dec 2013 23:40

paramu wrote:India removes barriers to...

Comment section


if anyone has a reuters comment, they should respond there saying that the maid was on an official passport, so the rules of US minimum wage doesn't apply

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 17 Dec 2013 23:42

Bade wrote:^^^ This has deeper reasons to send India a message. Everything is not out in the open. It is not a case of babus using their clout either. Removing all those safety barricades has deeper significance, India has never done any such thing before.

All CT theories should limit to those that involve US interests or their pov to make sense. Even the Bharara dude is just being the water-boy in this case.


the maid was 'missing' since june (read somewhere). this is happening almost 6 months after that. there's definitely something else going on.

also read somewhere but can't recollect clearly, it seems that there was stonewalling from DG side on diplo grounds and this is a 'show of force' ...maybe something personally nasty went between the two on the lines of 'you can't touch me' and bharara side responds with this?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 17 Dec 2013 23:45

paramu wrote:India removes barriers to...

Comment section

smacc wrote:
It seems,by way of India’s history of mistreatment and abuse of it’s Women,that this indignation over this women’s arrest is hypocritical to the extreme.This is a first for Indian men,standing up for a lowly women?
Dec 17, 2013 8:00pm IST


DeepakNanda wrote:
As an Indian-American (who happens to work at another consular mission in the U.S.) I am extremely upset at what Ms. Devyani has done. This level of hypocrisy is unbelievable for an ‘ambassador’ who supposedly supports women rights.
It is well know in the Indian community that we hire ‘servants’ and pay them next to nothing wages while forcing them to endure hard working conditions. This exploitation of household-workers is a pandemic problem in the Indian community. Rich and entitled land-owners and business owners may treat their servants like slaves in India, but in this country, America, things are a little different. Here we work for ourselves and honor our obligations
...
twitter: @deeunlimited


Someone mentioned the term "House Nigger" (somewhat similar to BRF's MUTU) that applies to PIOs like the above. From Wikipedia:

"House Negro" (also "house Nigger") is a pejorative term for a black person, used to compare someone to a house slave of a slave owner from the historic period of legal slavery in the United States. The term comes from a speech "Message to the Grass Roots" (1963) by African American activist Malcolm X, wherein he explains that during slavery, there were two kinds of slaves: "house Negroes", who worked in the master's house, and "field Negroes" (also "field Niggers"), who performed the manual labor outside.
He characterizes the house Negro as having a better life than the field Negro, and thus unwilling to leave the plantation and potentially more likely to support existing power structures that favor whites over blacks. Malcolm X identified with the field Negro. The term is used against individuals,[1][2] in critiques of attitudes within the African American community,[3] and as a borrowed term for critiquing parallel situations.[4]

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 17 Dec 2013 23:47

Indian-american + Our nation = does not compute. Matters of the case involving the domestic help aside, what is the legality of her arrest and confinement?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 17 Dec 2013 23:48

a_bharat, rsangram does not actually have a point, other than a misplaced schadenfreude at India's humiliation by an act that goes beyond all standards of diplomatic relations, however that might be spun.

just FWIW, Indian diplomats, barring the very senior ones do not enjoy any special treatment in India, there are numerous IFS officers who take the delhi metro to work when posted at delhi. IFS, for all its faults is not IPS or IAS. IFS has never had anything to do with 'other sources of income' and lastly, salaries of India officers posted abroad to the developed world are quite low, given the job they have to do and certainly compared to salaries of officers from other countries.
to sum up, the job has few perks, no ostentatious power, requires you to live outside the country and little financial benefit to offset all that. consequently, the only people who opt for IFS are the people who are really motivated by the idea of representing India. the rest opt for easier and lucrative services like IRS etc.

now, it might well be that Indian diplomats do not do all that we want of them (to be frank, there's a huge structural problem too, the numbers employed by foreign service are miniscule f.e) but that does not in any way justify expressing glee at the loutish and perverse behaviour meted out to an Indian diplomat.
that is unless one is a lout or pervert himself, or a MUTU.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 17 Dec 2013 23:50

Bade wrote: If the house-hold helps are on diplomatic passport, how can local wages be applicable at all. This was not revealed in the media before even in India. If that is the case then there is no violation in principle. It is like saying the diplomat's themselves are being underpaid on US soil by the GoI. :-) Does not make sense.


But if she was taken there on an A-3 visa, they do, don't they? You can travel on a diplomatic passport but a non-diplomatic visa no? Aren't terms of visa which govern law applicability?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 17 Dec 2013 23:53

goto ToIlet videos and listen carefully to what her dad says before he brakes down. there is a significant one liner about sonia-mms's gov and certain visa issues.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 17 Dec 2013 23:54

Actually filling the VISA form with wrong information is perjury.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1546


Whoever knowingly forges, counterfeits, alters, or falsely makes any immigrant or nonimmigrant visa, permit, border crossing card, alien registration receipt card, or other document prescribed by statute or regulation for entry into or as evidence of authorized stay or employment in the United States, or utters, uses, attempts to use, possesses, obtains, accepts, or receives any such visa, permit, border crossing card, alien registration receipt card, or other document prescribed by statute or regulation for entry into or as evidence of authorized stay or employment in the United States, knowing it to be forged, counterfeited, altered, or falsely made, or to have been procured by means of any false claim or statement, or to have been otherwise procured by fraud or unlawfully obtained; or
Whoever, except under direction of the Attorney General or the Commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, or other proper officer, knowingly possesses any blank permit, or engraves, sells, brings into the United States, or has in his control or possession any plate in the likeness of a plate designed for the printing of permits, or makes any print, photograph, or impression in the likeness of any immigrant or nonimmigrant visa, permit or other document required for entry into the United States, or has in his possession a distinctive paper which has been adopted by the Attorney General or the Commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service for the printing of such visas, permits, or documents;

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Bade » 17 Dec 2013 23:55

Gus wrote:the maid was 'missing' since june (read somewhere). this is happening almost 6 months after that. there's definitely something else going on.

also read somewhere but can't recollect clearly, it seems that there was stonewalling from DG side on diplo grounds and this is a 'show of force' ...maybe something personally nasty went between the two on the lines of 'you can't touch me' and bharara side responds with this?


Missing for 6 months is too long and US was asked to do something about it. But nothing happened.

My CT limited to Bharara is (if it does not involve any other higher US authorities) that it is probably something to do with the other cases involving prominent Indian Americans which he dealt with recently. Maybe the consulate has a stand on that too, and Bharara's office did not like it. He may have never thought it will snowball out of control to have effects in Dilli.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby paramu » 17 Dec 2013 23:58

OU812ISEE at 10:25 AM December 17, 2013
I'm glad that India stood up for their diplomat.
Last week it was the Chinese,this week the Indians.
We've managed to alienate more than 50% of the worlds population in a few weeks time.
I'm glad to see that they are not afraid to hand it to us.


http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/l ... z2nl7NW3UF

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 17 Dec 2013 23:59

Here is something about Preetinder Singh Bharara

Bharara was born in 1968 in Firozpur, Punjab, India, to a Sikh father and Hindu mother.[11] He grew up in Eatontown in suburban Monmouth County, New Jersey[12] and attended Ranney School in Tinton Falls, New Jersey, where he graduated as valedictorian in 1986.[13][14] He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College in 1990 and Columbia Law School in 1993, where he was a member of the Columbia Law Review.[11]

Bharara served as the chief counsel to Senator Chuck Schumer and played a leading role in the United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary investigation into the firings of United States attorneys.[15] He was assistant United States Attorney in Manhattan for five years, bringing criminal cases against the bosses of the Gambino and Colombo crime families and Asian gangs in New York City

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Bade » 18 Dec 2013 00:03

Prasad wrote:
But if she was taken there on an A-3 visa, they do, don't they? You can travel on a diplomatic passport but a non-diplomatic visa no? Aren't terms of visa which govern law applicability?


That is a good question. Hope someone can clarify. There were reports that it was a personal contract between the diplomat and the maid...or there were two different contracts. How can you get a diplomatic passport unless you are on government assignment for the maid. :-?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Dec 2013 00:14

Gus wrote:
rohitvats wrote: Further, the insurance, travel to/from India and other charges are paid officially and together account for much higher value than the minimum wages being thrown about.


insurance runs a max of 400 or 500 a month. travel is 2000 giver or take.

minimum wage is certainly more than all these things included.

food and lodging was also provided for, wasn't it ?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 18 Dec 2013 00:21

Rahul M wrote:food and lodging was also provided for, wasn't it ?


yes..at the bare minimum levels, I guess you can shack with roomies for about 1000 and food for about 500..not sure of NY rates.

but I am not sure if nannying was the only thing she did or how many hrs she did etc..

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 18 Dec 2013 00:26

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/in ... es/1208846
Subsequently, Khobragade narrated her ordeal in an email to her colleagues.

“I must admit that I broke down many times as the indignities of repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing, holed up with common criminals and drug addicts were all being imposed upon me despite my incessant assertions of immunity,” the 1999-batch IFS officer wrote.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 18 Dec 2013 00:29

Gus wrote:
Rahul M wrote:food and lodging was also provided for, wasn't it ?


yes..at the bare minimum levels, I guess you can shack with roomies for about 1000 and food for about 500..not sure of NY rates.

but I am not sure if nannying was the only thing she did or how many hrs she did etc..

If she was staying with the DCG, the lawyers can rack that up and add it to her wages and claim she was being paid enough and more. There is no way she could've afforded to live elsewhere.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 18 Dec 2013 00:32

Gus wrote:
Rahul M wrote:food and lodging was also provided for, wasn't it ?


yes..at the bare minimum levels, I guess you can shack with roomies for about 1000 and food for about 500..not sure of NY rates.

but I am not sure if nannying was the only thing she did or how many hrs she did etc..


Living in Manhattan is virtually impossible with the minimum wage. I think she was a live-in maid, with food and accomodation taken care of.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 18 Dec 2013 00:33

Gus wrote:
rohitvats wrote: Further, the insurance, travel to/from India and other charges are paid officially and together account for much higher value than the minimum wages being thrown about.


insurance runs a max of 400 or 500 a month. travel is 2000 giver or take.

minimum wage is certainly more than all these things included.


And how much would accommodation and food cost in New York? And the travel which she did not have to do? And electricity and other utility bills which did not have to pay?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 18 Dec 2013 00:38

it is hard to estimate living cost vs payment deserved for services rendered without knowing more details.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 18 Dec 2013 00:38

rsangram wrote: The Indian babu had it coming - the Indian aam aadmi could not get him/her, we should be grateful, Massa got em.

The American diplomats and babus do not get any special treatment at home. They are the same as everyone else on American soil.

To be honest, I am rather enjoying this Indian babu's plight. Perhaps, that is my guilty pleasure.


I can only conjecture that this is probably what Mir Jaffar also wanted to do. I cannot get em, so I will use the Brits to get them.

There are so many instances where American diplomutts and co have literally gotten away with murder. Dick Cheney's hunting accident is a good example.

EDIT:I have to wonder why :- Why in the world can we indic folks not work together? Why do we have to self-flagellate and pray of "outsiders" to teach us a lesson? Why do we have to thank the massa for doing their "White Man's Burden" duty of civilizing colored folks? Have we not learnt anything?
Last edited by member_22733 on 18 Dec 2013 00:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 18 Dec 2013 00:41

Prasad posted this in nukkad

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/diplo ... 131217.htm
November 2012: Richard arrived in the US and started to work for Dr Khobragade on November 23, 2012.

March 2013: Problems started with Richard, according to Dr Khobragade's lawsuit against her in the Delhi high court. It said that Richard wanted to work outside on her off days, but she was told that it was illegal according to her visa status, and also because she had an official passport.

June 23: Richard left DR Khobragade's home to buy groceries, and did not return. Dr Khobragade informed the matter to the consulate general, who informed the concerned authorities.

July 8: Richard visited an immigration attorney's firm in Manhattan, New York. A person present there told Rediff.com then that four individuals from the consulate soon arrived at the attorney's office.

There were discussions, and reports indicated Richard demanded a sum as her wages, and an ordinary Indian passport.

Meanwhile, her husband and child in India were taken into custody, according to the witness. A scared Richard spoke with them, and refused to leave the attorney's office premises.

The consulate officials remained outside. Later in the evening, the police were called and they took Richard away.

The Indian government revoked Richard's official passport the same day, which made her status illegal in the US.

The Indian embassy in Washington, DC requested the US State Department to locate Richard and return her to India.

September: The Delhi high court issued an order to restrain Richard from instituting any action or proceedings against Dr Khobragade outside India on the terms or conditions of her employment, according to a statement issued by the Indian embassy.

In his order on September 20, Justice Jayant Nath noted that any grievance about the terms of employment, salary or ill-treatment could only be adjudicated by an Indian court, since Richard and Dr Khobragade worked for the Government of India.

The high court also issued notice to Richard's husband Philip in Delhi. The case is scheduled for hearing in February.

Meanwhile, an arrest warrant was issued against Richard by the metropolitan magistrate of the south district court in New Delhi under Sections 387, 420 and 120B of the Indian Penal Code, according to the Indian embassy.

These are related to extortion, cheating and conspiracy.

If Richard enters India, she will be arrested.
Last edited by rohitvats on 18 Dec 2013 00:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: highlighted relevant parts

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 18 Dec 2013 00:44

by LokeshC
I can only conjecture that this is probably what Mir Jaffar also wanted to do. I cannot get em, so I will use the Brits to get them.


It is Indian State Dept. Vs. US State department. Calling/comparing villains to normal comments is unwanted for.

Dick Chaney was not a Diplomat. He was U.S Vice President. His shotgun accidentally went off shooing his friend on the hunting expedition., he did not did it voluntarily.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 18 Dec 2013 00:45

"It said that Richard wanted to work outside on her off days, but she was told that it was illegal according to her visa status, and also because she had an official passport.

June 23: Richard left DR Khobragade's home to buy groceries, and did not return. Dr Khobragade informed the matter to the consulate general, who informed the concerned authorities."

This happens a lot! people jump trying to get immigration to USA (false wedding, illegal work, etc).

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 18 Dec 2013 00:51

So the picture emerging is this: The maid had ulterior motives (immigrate to the US). Plan did not work out with existing legal constraints. Hired immigration attorney and turned into an illegal immigrant. Attorneys in the US are known to play dirty. The fact that the labor laws were violated on an non-immigrant work visa (a criminal offense for the employer) were used by the attorney and this turned into a criminal case. Enter Preet Bahara (uncle tom) and NYPD (ruthless racist). The rest is history :).

I dont know why her husband is being harassed for her actions. Now she can claim asylum claiming she fears for her life in India.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 18 Dec 2013 00:55


Attorneys in the US are known to play dirty.


A criminal case (perjury on the visa form) is State vs. the person and is not "Attorney playing dirty"

Preet Singh is actually a State Attorney what we call in India a "Sarkari Vakil" .

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 18 Dec 2013 00:57

SBajwa wrote:
It is Indian State Dept. Vs. US State department. Calling/comparing villains to normal comments is unwanted for.

Dick Chaney was not a Diplomat. He was U.S Vice President. His shotgun accidentally went off shooing his friend on the hunting expedition., he did not did it voluntarily.


It was a response to a commenter who wanted the US to teach a lesson to our "babus", and I think that line of thought deserves a comparison to the many traitors who sold us out throughout our history. I did not compare the commenter to Mir Jafar. I mentioned that his line of thought appears to be the same.

Dick Cheney is just an example. A cursory reading of Wikileaks should tell you what the real deal is.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Dec 2013 00:58

SBajwa, India does not have a 'state department'. it's called the foreign ministry or the ministry of external affairs if you want to be 100% accurate.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 18 Dec 2013 01:01

SBajwa wrote:

Attorneys in the US are known to play dirty.


A criminal case (perjury on the visa form) is State vs. the person and is not "Attorney playing dirty"

Preet Singh is actually a State Attorney what we call in India a "Sarkari Vakil" .


Please read my post.

I do know that criminal cases can only be taken up by the state attorney. I have been in the US long enough to know that fact. The thing is, someone has to file a complaint and provide evidence to Mr. Preet. Who could that be? The maid or an immigration attorney she hired?

Question is, at the moment this was complaint was filed and evidence provided. What did Mr. Preet and NYPD do? Instead of trying to work this out diplomatically, they chose to make an "example" of what could happen "anyone" including a state representative of India. Civilizing the savages eh? This is the reason why I am saying Mr. Preet acted like uncle Tom.
Last edited by member_22733 on 18 Dec 2013 01:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 18 Dec 2013 01:01

SBajwa wrote:

Attorneys in the US are known to play dirty.


A criminal case (perjury on the visa form) is State vs. the person and is not "Attorney playing dirty"

Preet Singh is actually a State Attorney what we call in India a "Sarkari Vakil" .

The DA picks which cases to take on or let slide. There is enough choice available there to play politics, especially if one has political ambition. So its not a case of In america, everyone is equal before law and everyone gets prosecuted. It does not work that way.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_23692 » 18 Dec 2013 01:02

Rahul M wrote:a_bharat, rsangram does not actually have a point, other than a misplaced schadenfreude at India's humiliation by an act that goes beyond all standards of diplomatic relations, however that might be spun.

just FWIW, Indian diplomats, barring the very senior ones do not enjoy any special treatment in India, there are numerous IFS officers who take the delhi metro to work when posted at delhi. IFS, for all its faults is not IPS or IAS. IFS has never had anything to do with 'other sources of income' and lastly, salaries of India officers posted abroad to the developed world are quite low, given the job they have to do and certainly compared to salaries of officers from other countries.
to sum up, the job has few perks, no ostentatious power, requires you to live outside the country and little financial benefit to offset all that. consequently, the only people who opt for IFS are the people who are really motivated by the idea of representing India. the rest opt for easier and lucrative services like IRS etc.

now, it might well be that Indian diplomats do not do all that we want of them (to be frank, there's a huge structural problem too, the numbers employed by foreign service are miniscule f.e) but that does not in any way justify expressing glee at the loutish and perverse behaviour meted out to an Indian diplomat.
that is unless one is a lout or pervert himself, or a MUTU.



That may be true. But the IFS still treats ordinary Indians in Indian embassies and consulates very poorly. No, there is no kinship between an ordinary Indian and an IFS or an IAS in general, just as there is none between an ordinary Indian and an MLA or an MP or even a corporator, in general.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_23692 » 18 Dec 2013 01:06

LokeshC wrote:
rsangram wrote: The Indian babu had it coming - the Indian aam aadmi could not get him/her, we should be grateful, Massa got em.

The American diplomats and babus do not get any special treatment at home. They are the same as everyone else on American soil.

To be honest, I am rather enjoying this Indian babu's plight. Perhaps, that is my guilty pleasure.


I can only conjecture that this is probably what Mir Jaffar also wanted to do. I cannot get em, so I will use the Brits to get them.

There are so many instances where American diplomutts and co have literally gotten away with murder. Dick Cheney's hunting accident is a good example.

EDIT:I have to wonder why :- Why in the world can we indic folks not work together? Why do we have to self-flagellate and pray of "outsiders" to teach us a lesson? Why do we have to thank the massa for doing their "White Man's Burden" duty of civilizing colored folks? Have we not learnt anything?


This is what I meant by wacko bird. Anyone who is not sympathetic to an Indian babu is a "Mir Jafar". So, what does it make anyone who is not sympathetic to Sonia Gandhi, of she is ever humiliated abroad ? The Devil Himself ! I am a bad bad boy, who is after your soul. Beware !

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby krithivas » 18 Dec 2013 01:10

Question - Can GoI declare US Marshall's if there are any in India as persona non grata? At the end of the day apparently they processed (what constitutes as rape by Indian Law) the diplomat.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 18 Dec 2013 01:11

rsangram wrote:
This is what I meant by wacko bird. Anyone who is not sympathetic to an Indian babu is a "Mir Jafar". So, what does it make anyone who is not sympathetic to Sonia Gandhi, of she is ever humiliated abroad ? The Devil Himself ! I am a bad bad boy, who is after your soul. Beware !


rsangram: You are missing the point. Indian Babu vs Indian commoner is an INTERNAL Indian Issue. The actions of the NYPD and NYDA is a violation on the rights of the Indian state, i.e. an attack on the Indian state.

If you think that an attack on the Indian state by an external entity is the way to solve the issues between Indian Babu and Indian commoner, then it means you have no faith in Indian democracy and want us to be ruled by an external entity. That is what you mean by saying that, whether you intend to really say that or not.

I have been warned (twice in a row) by Mods for simpler offenses. I am surprised that you have been let go :). You are one lucky man.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_23692 » 18 Dec 2013 01:19

rohitvats wrote:Well, as per a panel discussion on NDTV comprising of Mr. Sibal and Lalit Mansingh, the practice of taking domestic staff to US is known to Americans. The Americans and Indians both knew the issue about minimum wages in US and had devised a means to counter that - the domestic help does not travel on a common/personal passport but on an official passport.

Therefore, by extension, the maid/domestic help is not an immigrant to US and hence, the minimum wage law does not apply. And this was a mutual understanding between US and India. Further, the insurance, travel to/from India and other charges are paid officially and together account for much higher value than the minimum wages being thrown about.

In short, this act of belittling the Indian diplomat was done on purpose - the Americans knew of the arrangement but still went ahead with the whole drama. This is premeditated with the ulterior intentions.


Why do Indian diplomats need to take servants from India ? In fact, why do they need servants at all ? 80% of the Indian population has no servants. Why should 80% of us identify with these virtual slave masters and get offended when they get into legal trouble elsewhere ? Why is our Indian pride associated with this kind of nonsense ?
Last edited by Rahul M on 18 Dec 2013 01:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: user warned for thread derailment.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 18 Dec 2013 01:21

It would appear that the GOI has some nasty dope on the personal lives of some US embassy/consulate personnel. To be released at the next stage of escalation.

It probably has to do with 'vacationing in Goa'.

Both sides need to cool off. We have bigger fish to fry than each other.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 18 Dec 2013 01:24

rsangram, these points have been all covered in depth in this very thread. by your series of posts I am of the opinion that your intention is to disrupt the discussion by flaming rather than add to it. you are being warned.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_23692 » 18 Dec 2013 01:26

LokeshC wrote:
rsangram wrote:
This is what I meant by wacko bird. Anyone who is not sympathetic to an Indian babu is a "Mir Jafar". So, what does it make anyone who is not sympathetic to Sonia Gandhi, of she is ever humiliated abroad ? The Devil Himself ! I am a bad bad boy, who is after your soul. Beware !


rsangram: You are missing the point. Indian Babu vs Indian commoner is an INTERNAL Indian Issue. The actions of the NYPD and NYDA is a violation on the rights of the Indian state, i.e. an attack on the Indian state.

If you think that an attack on the Indian state by an external entity is the way to solve the issues between Indian Babu and Indian commoner, then it means you have no faith in Indian democracy and want us to be ruled by an external entity. That is what you mean by saying that, whether you intend to really say that or not.

I have been warned (twice in a row) by Mods for simpler offenses. I am surprised that you have been let go :). You are one lucky man.


You are the one missing the point. I would accept your argument about this being an internal matter and an Indian pride issue, if in addition to being outraged at this incident, the Indian government, Indian embassies and regular Indians got equally offended at the ill treatment suffered by ordinary Indians while they are abroad, at the hand of foreign governments. But what I object to is that no one, not the Indian government, not the Indian embassies, not even the media or ordinary Indians bat an eyelid and none of them get their pride hurt when ordinary Indians suffer these humiliations on a daily basis in foreign countries. And to top it off, it is these IFS babus, who rub salt on their wounds, when instead of helping they further victimize these ordinary Indians. Where is Indian pride then ? Why does Indian pride only come into play when a babu is violated ? It is this double standard, one for ordinary Indians and one for babus, that causes me to be not sympathetic to babus, even when they are victims. I am sorry, but I am rather enjoying this.

You can say what you like about the Americans, but they treat each American victim abroad as an attack on their national pride, babu or no babu - even a drug addicted good for nothing hobo, as long as he carries a US passport.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sanku » 18 Dec 2013 01:27

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 1217.htm#4

Sheela Bhatt
What Khobragade has gone through in the US has made senior government officers, both serving and retired, furious.

Former Secretary E A S Sarna has written to Prime Minister Mnamohan Singh demanding that the ‘government immediately call off the proposals to set up nuclear power projects at Mithi Virdi (Gujarat), Kovvada (Andhra Pradesh) and any other location, based on US-supplied nuclear reactors, as those reactors would only help the US at the cost of India’.

‘If India has any self respect, it will act on this forthwith,’ he said.

He also demanded that, ‘India should review its purchase portfolio with the US and trim it drastically to send a strong message that we accord the highest priority to respecting our own laws and our national interests.’

K C Singh, former ambassador to Iran and well-known commentator, told rediff.com, “Does Devyani belong to the Al Qaeda? The Americans have gone nutty. This is done under the watch of the US State Department under Secretary of State John Kerry. The Americans want to teach India a lesson. This is the signal given to India for its Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran policies.”

Singh added, “Foreign Secretary Sujata Singh was in Washington last week, why didn’t the Americans bring up the issue and ask for clarifications? What was the need to spring a surprise as soon as Singh left for India?"

In fact, many observers believe that Singh has taken a firm stand being a lady diplomat herself.

Devyani’s father Uttam Khobragade was once a very powerful bureaucrat in Maharashtra. He is now retired.

Being a Dalit also makes him politically powerful. He has worked closely with former Maharashtra Chief Minister Vilarao Deshmukh and current Union Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde, who played a major role on Tuesday in formulating stern policy on the issue.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prasad » 18 Dec 2013 01:29

State Dept says the consulate was warned of impending legal action -
Asked if the matter could not have been resolved in any other way outside an arrest, Desai-Biswal made a significant disclosure that could change the contours of the debate. She said the US state department had alerted — in writing — the Indian embassy as early as September this year that there were allegations against the diplomat concerning underpayment of minimum wages and non-compliance, and that action could be imminent under US laws.

Asked if she and her colleagues were aware that detention of the diplomat was imminent while they was engaged in talks with India's foreign secretary Sujatha Singh, Desai-Biswal said the state department was not the only agency involved, although the bureau of diplomatic security at Foggy Bottom did sign off on the arrest. She referred questions about the reported treatment after the arrest to US marshals who took over once the arrest had been made.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 547650.cms


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