India-US Strategic News and Discussion

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2013 11:41

habal wrote:then why did this unbeleevably powerful police force and DA with vast powers leave out the Russian diplomats from their due process. Who trembled and wet his pants for that omission to happen.

Because they have discretion, and they respect and fear Russia more than India. Isn't it obvious? Isn't that what this is all about?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Dec 2013 11:44

Theo_Fidel wrote:
I don't condone what happened but by behaving desi in NY she put herself in that position. T.

Well boss 99% of Americans may enjoy institutionalized rape of women, but I dont see why an officer of GoI who went there to serve India and not be yet another coolie in US should face it.

If it happens to one of the coolie gunga dins, that would be more than fair. It is sad that it has to happen to Indians on govt service, or business travel.

Indians are not obliged to share your dhimmitude about US.

habal · Post by **habal** » 18 Dec 2013 11:44

KLNMurthy wrote:
habal wrote:then why did this unbeleevably powerful police force and DA with vast powers leave out the Russian diplomats from their due process. Who trembled and wet his pants for that omission to happen.
Because they have discretion, and they respect and fear Russia more than India. Isn't it obvious? Isn't that what this is all about?

So discretion is always there, even you agree. The diplomat also enjoys discretion, in countries more civilized than US or Pakistan.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Dec 2013 11:46

KLNMurthy wrote: If necessary, yes. All the while diligenty sharpening the life, never forgetting.

Other option is to lash out in impatience and anger, and then forget all about it in no time, in a spurt of papi-jhapi.

Sorry waiting is not an option, just adds to the current image of ball less spineless country who will waggle hopelessly when their female diplomats are raped in a institutionalized manner.

There is no dichotomy between acting now and also acting in the future, that is a false choice. BOTH are needed. Starting now.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 11:47

Many people are confusing the issue. Whether Devyani was doing something illegal or not is for the court to determine. The problem lies with the way she was handled. No country would tolerate its diplomats being handled this way, even for grave crimes. Period. I do not know why this simple fact refuses to sink in.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 18 Dec 2013 11:47

KLNMurthy wrote:
Neela wrote:Wow. So many apologists. US laws. The way the US operates. US psyche. Modern society. Afghanistan, Pakistan, China what not.

Why exactly is a strip search done here?
Strip search exists as a way to mainly dehumanize the prisoner (and, with a small probability, find any contraband items that may be concealed in body cavities). US criminal justice system is extremely brutal and inhumane, and unhappily it is correct to say that strip search is "standard," though I have no doubt that there are always exceptions made at the discretion of the officials.

US is a peaceful and orderly society (mostly) due to an unbelievably powerful police system that uses the most unbelievably harsh methods and is very effective.

For normal Indians in India, where "arrest" even of hardcore terrorists usually consists of SDRE policeman holding the prisoner by the wrist, with the prisoner often free to "show little finger" and escape, the level of harshness and rigour in the US system is difficult to comprehend.

Fellow BRFite g.sarkar may have some first-hand light to shed on this subject.

I simply fail to understand why some junta are writing reams of posts to make Indians understand US laws and society ityadi.
Give me a break, Indians in India have understood the trespass and violation that has happened here. They dont need to know the US' laws and have understood that what was done is unforgivable and needs reciprocal action that will echo in the US foreign ministry for a long time to come.
When a diplomat's dignity is violated in this manner, WHY should normal Indians in India bother to comprehend the "level of harshness and rigour in the US system"?
And people who are asking WHY are being given evasive answers ranging from "why diplomat needs domestic help" to "good that this happened to babus".

She is a diplomat who should not have been violated by this "harshness and rigour in the US system".
Such techniques are not to be applied in this case. And yes, she is to be treated with respect and her body is inviolate. Period.
Quite a few people just can't seem to accept that and keep quoting US laws and how its justice system works for aam aadmi.

In this case, Indians dont want lectures about how US applies its laws to aam aadmi.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 11:49

chandrasekhar.m, well stated.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 11:51

Karan M wrote:>> theo fidel: don't condone what happened but by behaving desi in NY she put herself in that position. These things are done everyday to americans why should she get some special exemption.

wow, behaving desi??? what the heck is that supposed to mean...
does the fact that she was having a consular position mean anything.

incredible.

As has been pointed out earlier, MUTU ko ignore pe daal de.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Dec 2013 11:53

chandrasekhar.m wrote: In this case, Indians dont want lectures about how US applies its laws to aam aadmi.

People should not protect US. At least on BRF. What US did was some thing which will make Pakistan proud.

People are justifying Pakiness here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 11:55

Theo_Fidel wrote:
I don't condone what happened but by behaving desi in NY she put herself in that position. These things are done everyday to americans why should she get some special exemption. Just today in my area mom was arrested for shop lifting, strip searched and tossed into lockup in front of her 4 kids who went into social administration.

Americans are told to conform to local customs when they travel abroad. Indians should be told the same as well. The institution of domestic servitude is shameful and a collision with local laws was inevitable.

with all due respect, the sheer amount of stupidity and ignorance packed in this small post is astounding.

>> why should she get some special exemption

because she is a friggin' diplomat, that's why. why is it so difficult to wrap your head around that idea ?

she is not an american, not even by profession and has ZERO compulsion to act as an american. she does not earn her keep from uncle sam but from the GOI. she is there not to 'be an american' but to represent Indian interests there.
your comments apply only to people who go to US as tourist/student or to take up a job there.

Americans are told to conform to local customs when they travel abroad. Indians should be told the same as well.

what an asinine comment. that's for the tourists. the american diplomats get a very different set of instructions.

The institution of domestic servitude is shameful and a collision with local laws was inevitable.

more shameful than your sticking up for US authorities for uncivilized medieval behaviour ? and what exactly is shameful about people earning wages for hinest work ?

also, just FYI US diplomats engage in this shameful behaviour with enthusiasm, any US diplomat with family engages an army of domestic servants.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 12:01

SSridhar wrote:Many people are confusing the issue. Whether Devyani was doing something illegal or not is for the court to determine. The problem lies with the way she was handled. No country would tolerate its diplomats being handled this way, even for grave crimes. Period. I do not know why this simple fact refuses to sink in.

That is very well put SSridhar. The simple fact is that the US has treated India as a hostile nation and some people will go to any lengths to defend the despicable behaviour shown towards India.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Dec 2013 12:01

ramana wrote:SBajwa, Was the maid living in the diplomat's house and if so was room and board considered in the wage issue?
If not why not? And at $4500/month was the maid paying US taxes?

Inclusion of room and board will bring the compensation close to or even exceed the average pay. By the way lot of people do live on min wages even in NY. They may not necessarily be living on the island though. Certainly not on 67th street between 1st n 3rd avenues. I used to go there every weekend to spend time with an ex-relative family long time ago when a 1br was about 250k which probably is about a million or more.

Most ordinary people live in queens Jamaica Brooklyn or even take a ferry from Staten Island. Yes it is tough to live on minimum salary in NYC so is living in a crawl in central Mumbai textile district of Sion (sheev). Sure loved my stay in wakeshwar and no doubt would love to get a flat in Adarsh - but how if not a babu?

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 12:02

Just to ensure that there is clarity on the issue, there is unfortunately a distinction in international law between diplomatic agents and consular officials. They are dealt with under different Vienna conventions. Diplomatic agents (those who serve in the embassy in the national capital) enjoy absolute diplomatic immunity - they cannot be arrested or prosecuted even for major violations of the law. The most the host county can do is to declare them persona non grata and force them to leave the country. Consular officials do not enjoy absolute immunity, though the level of immunity they do enjoy also seems to have been violated in this case. This distinction is a bit absurd in modern times when the roles and duties of the two are not that different, but that is the reality of international law.

That said, many countries including India have been providing consular staff the same immunities and privileges that their embassy counterparts enjoy. The US has not. We should deal with the US on terms of reciprocity, and give them exactly the same immunities and privileges (or lack thereof) that they give us. The latest decisions go some way towards that, and should be made permanent. The negotiations henceforth should harp on reciprocity, which is central to diplomacy.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 18 Dec 2013 12:04

There have been suggestions here that Indian embassies are not mindful of harsh treatment of (ordinary) Indians. I'm an Indian professional who has lived in countries like Russia, Iran, Turkey and the UK and have interacted with embassy staff for personal & official work and socially.

I've found our embassy staff to be reasonably professional and competent. for e.g. foreigners get Indian visas faster and with far less hassle than Indians applying for visa's to that country (I'm talking Russia/Iran here and not US/EU). I once entered Uzbekistan (a dictatorship and police state) with an invalid visa, which the Indian embassy sorted out in a few hours. We once required an Iranian to visit India at very short notice to conclude a contract. Our embassy official accepted the visa application at night, in his residence and granted the visa in a few mins.

The shortcomings of our embassies are more due to GoI's neglect of foreign policy. For e.g. we don't have IFS staffers well versed in foreign trade, investment laws etc. Embassies tend to go overboard on cultural events and don't do enough of for e.g. establishing contacts among the Media/armed forces/key corporations of the host country.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 12:07

much of the so-called retaliation is silly. proper one would be when a couple of US diplomats are picked up from the consulates on a friday evening and they spend 2 days in custody due to courts being closed.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Dec 2013 12:08

ldev wrote: A quick disclaimer that without knowing the specifics of the case, the following is speculation. Under US law any hours worked in excess of 40 hours per week need to be paid at a premium rate of at least 1.5x the regular rate.

Not necessarily. 1x is also acceptable with prior contract. If there is no union involved, there need not be any overtime pay. Disclaimer: ianal

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 18 Dec 2013 12:10

Devyani Khobragade case: Why we must humiliate the Americans

In a limited sense, the transgressions of US minimum wages law by Khobragade will draw the usual Indian liberal nonsense: if we are in contravention of their law, we are the guilty party. Worse, some of us will also express sneaking admiration for the US's ability to enforce its own law, as opposed to our own inability - or systemic unwillingness - to enforce ours.

Not only is this a naïve view, but bull. Hear what Khobragade had to say about her arrest, and judge for yourself if this is the right way to deal with a brech of minimum wages law. The Indian Express, quoting from her email to colleagues, has this Indian Foreign Service (IFS) officer saying this about her horrifying experience. “I must admit that I broke down many times as the indignities of repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing, hold up with common criminals and drug addicts were all being imposed upon me despite my incessant assertions of immunity."

Our general assumption that the US law enforcers are merely doing their duty is rubbish. If alleged violation of US visa laws by Infosys can be settled with a fine, why couldn't the US have done so for Khobragade? Or is a woman diplomat fair game for US law enforcers? Indians are the most gullible goops in the world when it comes to discerning the difference between an honest effort to implement the law and using laws to project power and blackmail other countries. The American government is the most sophisticated legally illegal enterprise in the world when it comes to dealing with people from other countries. And Americans are one of the most sophisticated bigots in the world.

Lots more; read it in full.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2013 12:15

Sanku wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: If necessary, yes. All the while diligenty sharpening the life, never forgetting.

Other option is to lash out in impatience and anger, and then forget all about it in no time, in a spurt of papi-jhapi.
Sorry waiting is not an option, just adds to the current image of ball less spineless country who will waggle hopelessly when their female diplomats are raped in a institutionalized manner.

There is no dichotomy between acting now and also acting in the future, that is a false choice. BOTH are needed. Starting now.

Isn't that (acting now) already being done?

The point is, we should take a measured action that keeps our options open for prevailing in the long run.

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 18 Dec 2013 12:19

Folks,

Please take some time to read the wiki on Cavity Search to understand what the poor lady was subjected to. To quote some ghastly details,

In a thorough visual body cavity search, a flashlight is used to illuminate body orifices, including nostrils, ears, mouth, navel, penis (urethra and foreskin) or vagina, and rectum. Generally, the detainee is required to manipulate these body parts so that they can be examined.During manual body cavity searches, body orifices are probed using fingers or the entire hand

And mind you, she is a diplomat and not some drug peddler or mafia. If she had violated the rules, the US simply could have asked her to leave immediately - that would have settled the matters but what do they do? They subject her to the above treatment. As Sanku has said, in India we classify this as rape. That is how serious this matter is.

I think the repercussions of this event will be long term and US for all its Pakiness will pay a price.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 18 Dec 2013 12:23

I have also seen several cases (as this incident has demonstrated) where Indians posted abroad - not just in the diplomatic corps, want to get their domestic help from India, to join them and are 'economical with the truth' when filling out visa applications for them. This, even when local help is available at similar wages (e.g. the local lady hired to clean my flat in Moscow, was paid $200 / month). Quite often the treatment of Indian domestic help is not as per the cultural norms of the host country (though it would not be abuse).

In such cases though, it is for the host country to reject such visa applications, rather than react in the outrageous manner that the US did against our diplomat. Diplomats should also be encouraged to hire help locally for babysitting etc (as the Americans do) and get an allowance for that.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 18 Dec 2013 12:25

One question, who and where are the relatives of this DA guy in New York?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 12:27

Sridhar wrote:Just to ensure that there is clarity on the issue, there is unfortunately a distinction in international law between diplomatic agents and consular officials. They are dealt with under different Vienna conventions. . . . That said, many countries including India have been providing consular staff the same immunities and privileges that their embassy counterparts enjoy. The US has not. We should deal with the US on terms of reciprocity, and give them exactly the same immunities and privileges (or lack thereof) that they give us. The latest decisions go some way towards that, and should be made permanent. The negotiations henceforth should harp on reciprocity, which is central to diplomacy.

Good post. Yes, that is the difference between 1961 & 1963 Vienna conventions.

The US has gone to enormous lengths to extricate its citizens, forget about Consuls from foreign countries after committing very grave crimes. That's something we should appreciate. At the same time, those who pontificate on how local laws must be respected and therefore the law books must be thrown at DK, must ponder over the US methods and actions in foreign countries, however unequal the relationship was between itself and the other country. Depiction of the US as a paragon of virtue is strictly laughable.

Another issue that Amb. K.C.Singh brought up in the debate was that the US embassy/consular offices are aware of the need for domestic help by the Indian diplomats (I am using the word in the loose sense denoting both classes of staff) and have only insisted on an affidavit that the employees would return to India at the end of the tenure. This practice, he said, has been going on for decades.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 12:27

The Infosys visa issue was handled by fines. In this case she was deliberately humiliated. A message for sure was being sent. GoI and its assorted hangers on haven't got it (or don't want to get it).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Dec 2013 12:31

chanakyaa wrote:**partly DELETED in response to Rahul's post

On the topic of retaliation, what is the point of asking about the pay offered to Indian workers at the consulate? Isn't it going to be higher? And, even if they way paid in petty US dollars, isn't it going to beat ordinary Indian salary? Not sure I understand that part of so called "retaliation"?

Black money? If the assets far exceed what they earn in salary then the excess needs to be accounted for.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 12:32

a_bharat wrote:Devyani Khobragade case: Why we must humiliate the Americans

Check out the comments in there. GoI pulling out all stops and using eMGNREGA to the fullest to weasel out of this situation.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Dec 2013 12:36

rgsrini wrote:^^Rahul M
... even a large segment of mango Indian.

At least 70% of aam would not know nor care who dr. Khobragade is leave alone what is ifs and/or DCG.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Dec 2013 12:37

KLNMurthy wrote: Strip search exists as a way to mainly dehumanize the prisoner (and, with a small probability, find any contraband items that may be concealed in body cavities). US criminal justice system is extremely brutal and inhumane, and unhappily it is correct to say that strip search is "standard," though I have no doubt that there are always exceptions made at the discretion of the officials.
US is a peaceful and orderly society (mostly) due to an unbelievably powerful police system that uses the most unbelievably harsh methods and is very effective.
For normal Indians in India, where "arrest" even of hardcore terrorists usually consists of SDRE policeman holding the prisoner by the wrist, with the prisoner often free to "show little finger" and escape, the level of harshness and rigour in the US system is difficult to comprehend.
Fellow BRFite g.sarkar may have some first-hand light to shed on this subject.

I am not sure if you understood what I meant. She is a diplomat. Protocol is different. Period. Details of strip search are irrelevant.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Dec 2013 12:40

I dunno what behaving desi is.
I know what behaving like an American is.
Kill father of three in Kenya - probably DUI , & flee the country.
Modern society , justice , equalite , liberte, fraternite ! Viva! La! Amurica!

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 18 Dec 2013 12:41

Looks like this is appropriate time for Buddha to smile again for testing and for Surya to get dry run across Antarctica

. Successful testing of GSLV should put things to rest. We should be developing anything and everything we import on our own to be self reliant like France and increasingly china to have independent foreign policy and any spine in the world. GoI needs to spend more on R&D.

I also believe goi would have sent letters by now that companions faces arrest under Indian law soon and they can leave if they don't want to be subjected to Indian version of strip search.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Dec 2013 12:42

KLNMurthy wrote:It is a fine idea to say that they should do their own work etc., but it is not practical.

I agree with rest of your post but this part. It is eminently practical. Occasional once a week maid service may be unavoidable for busy couples, they can certainly make time - nay should make time to spend with their kids.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 12:44

matrimc wrote:
rgsrini wrote:^^Rahul M
... even a large segment of mango Indian.
At least 70% of aam would not know nor care who dr. Khobragade is leave alone what is ifs and/or DCG.

30% of 1.2 billion not large enough for you ? it's larger than american population.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2013 12:46

Neela wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: Strip search exists as a way to mainly dehumanize the prisoner (and, with a small probability, find any contraband items that may be concealed in body cavities). US criminal justice system is extremely brutal and inhumane, and unhappily it is correct to say that strip search is "standard," though I have no doubt that there are always exceptions made at the discretion of the officials.
US is a peaceful and orderly society (mostly) due to an unbelievably powerful police system that uses the most unbelievably harsh methods and is very effective.
For normal Indians in India, where "arrest" even of hardcore terrorists usually consists of SDRE policeman holding the prisoner by the wrist, with the prisoner often free to "show little finger" and escape, the level of harshness and rigour in the US system is difficult to comprehend.
Fellow BRFite g.sarkar may have some first-hand light to shed on this subject.
I am not sure if you understood what I meant. She is a diplomat. Protocol is different. Period. Details of strip search are irrelevant.

Maybe I did misunderstand your question. Of course I separate the insult to India from the individual case of DK (though my sympathies are with her, mostly). I thought you were expressing surprise at the use of strip search in the US prison system.

The US spokesperson is right in that strip search is "standard procedure." But that doesn't answer the question, why was it necessary to place an Indian diplomat in the arms of a system with such "standards."

There seems to be some misunderstanding that, if one delves into some of the sloppy practices of IFS personnel, it is the same as condoning the deliberate insult to India in this case. These are two separate things. I don't think this thread is only to discuss the inexplicable (yes, Paki-like) attack by the US on India, and not to touch on India's failure to know just what they are dealing with in Khan.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 18 Dec 2013 12:49

matrimc wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:It is a fine idea to say that they should do their own work etc., but it is not practical.
I agree with rest of your post but this part. It is eminently practical. Occasional once a week maid service may be unavoidable for busy couples, they can certainly make time - nay should make time to spend with their kids.

This is getting OT--yes that would be wonderful I am sure, but not everybody makes $300K or whatever for 30 hrs / week of work, leaving them plenty of time to be with the kids. Everyone's life situation is different and it would be better to have some empathy than to just prescribe to others how they should live. Reality of life for most middle class people in America is scrambling to make ends meet, keep kids in a decent school, pay the mortgage etc. One consequence of that is having to hire a low-paid domestic worker to look after the kids, keep the house in order etc.

Devyani may have done something wrong, and I have no idea whether she is arrogant or not, but one thing she is least at fault for is trying to have a domestic help to do housekeeping / babysitting etc. In this case it seems GOI is too stingy to give her proper allowance to maintain a domestic help without getting into legal problems (something that would be a requirement if she is supposed to do her sensitive job with peace of mind). Instead, GOI apparently just told her to go ahead and fill the visa form with whatever numbers are needed, as this is how it is done.

I am sure people will jump on me again for seeming to excuse American conduct (which I am certainly not doing), but again, similar cases have occurred in the past in the US. Americans are known for doing all sorts of salary irregularities with immigrant domestic help, but also jump self-righteously on such irregularities to get strategic advantage. Experienced IFS officers should have paid enough attention to US society to have known this, and not just gone on believing that fudging visa forms will be winked at, and is a good way to save money. The result now is that one lady diplomat who was just trying to do her job and be a mother had to suffer a horrible ordeal which hasn't ended.

And yes, I guess I do think lackadaisical attitude of senior IFS people--failing to recognize that USA is at best a frenemy, and therefore safeguarding their troops against potential vulnerabiities--is partly responsible for the insult India has had to suffer.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Dec 2013 12:55

I would suggest one exception for the American diplomats stationed in India .. We should follow their "standard procedure" on a couple of their diplomats to understand all appropriate procedures. Henceforth every opportunity should be used for such courtesy in the spirit of partnership and cooperation that marks our broad bilateral relationship.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 12:55

matrimc wrote:
rgsrini wrote:^^Rahul M
... even a large segment of mango Indian.
At least 70% of aam would not know nor care who dr. Khobragade is leave alone what is ifs and/or DCG.

It doesn't matter. If an Indian diplomat is insulted, whatever the 'alleged' crime is, and such insults are passed off as 'standard operating procedures', mango India must retaliate.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Dec 2013 12:56

KLNMurthy wrote: Maybe I did misunderstand your question. Of course I separate the insult to India from the individual case of DK (though my sympathies are with her, mostly). I thought you were expressing surprise at the use of strip search in the US prison system.

The US spokesperson is right in that strip search is "standard procedure." But that doesn't answer the question, why was it necessary to place an Indian diplomat in the arms of a system with such "standards."

There seems to be some misunderstanding that, if one delves into some of the sloppy practices of IFS personnel, it is the same as condoning the deliberate insult to India in this case. These are two separate things. I don't think this thread is only to discuss the inexplicable (yes, Paki-like) attack by the US on India, and not to touch on India's failure to know just what they are dealing with in Khan.

Sloppy practices, Indian failure to look into what they are dealing with in Khan - torn shirt/open fly.
What do you can the RaymondDavis incident? A LOWLY security contractor suddenly raises up the ranks & gets diplomatic immunity? What practice is that?
Or the Kenyan incident where after killing a father of 3 & leaving behind a pregnant wife? Not sloppy? US failure to dispense justice?
You cannot separate the insult to the case of DK.

habal · Post by **habal** » 18 Dec 2013 12:56

KLNMurthy wrote:and not to touch on India's failure to know just what they are dealing with in Khan.

you think the diplomats don't know what they are dealing with. they know all very well. US laws do not matter here because they are earning Indian rupees from the GoI and the GoI has certain quid-pro-quo arrangements with USG about how wages to maids etc will be adjusted at Indian pay levels.

Please do not further venture to edumacate us poor Indics about massa rules, because we just ain't interested. Nor do we care about it and we are not supposed to also. Maybe the mods should put some restrictions on this thread about spreading awareness about US laws.

We are truly a laughable bunch, if we were not so naive. Please do not even suggest or attempt to suggest explaining or promoting US pov on an Indian interests forum. What part of this is difficult to comprehend.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 18 Dec 2013 12:57

matrimc wrote:
rgsrini wrote:^^Rahul M
... even a large segment of mango Indian.
At least 70% of aam would not know nor care who dr. Khobragade is leave alone what is ifs and/or DCG.

They might not know what IFS or DCG is, but aam aadmi has the aam sense that comes with being aam, to recognise that it is inexcusable for US authorities to act like this.
They might not write posts in BRF, or go protest in the streets but they will feel outraged nonetheless.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 18 Dec 2013 13:07

habal wrote: you think the diplomats don't know what they are dealing with. they know all very well. US laws do not matter here because they are earning Indian rupees from the GoI and the GoI has certain quid-pro-quo arrangements with USG about how wages to maids etc will be adjusted at Indian pay levels.

Please do not further venture to edumacate us poor Indics about massa rules, because we just ain't interested. Nor do we care about it and we are not supposed to also. Maybe the mods should put some restrictions on this thread about spreading awareness about US laws.

We are truly a laughable bunch, if we were not so naive. Please do not even suggest or attempt to suggest explaining or promoting US pov on an Indian interests forum. What part of this is difficult to comprehend.

I agree. How we twist & turn to justify Amreeeki actions is truly incredulous. Bring in Dharma & all that irrelevant stuff. All in the garb of intelligent debate.
What Americans do to their own people by means of strip search, gun culture, killing, racial profiling etc is NOT relevant at all here.
Americans now have violated a woman diplomat . This is their way of saying this is what we will do .

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 18 Dec 2013 13:08

The whole episode reeks of a well prepared drama.

What it HAS achieved is that it has pushed the emerging scandal of Gen Bikram Singh receiving Legion of Merit from the US govt.
Why did he receive it? What service has he rendered to the US, or is he some big shot general of the stature of Manekshaw, etc?

Obviously, the latter does not apply to this arm-chair general, who has the ignominious distinction of having lost control of troops (mutiny) in at least two commands (Congo, Assam)?

So the obvious question is - is the Devyani Khobragade episode being used to hide the larger scandal of a pro-American COAS (with Pakistani-American relatives) receiving honour?