India-US Strategic News and Discussion

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 20 Dec 2013 03:57

US must have warned their diplomutts. All of them will be extra careful now not to let us get any excuse to arrest them.

If you have ever worked in an organisation or committee of any sort, the rules of survival and promotion are predicated on having a little black book of indiscretions, misdemeanours and incompetence. One never waits for a crisis to start collating the goods.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Dec 2013 03:58

Someone ask Nirupama Rao & TP Sreenivasan what relationship?

And do IFS seniors feel for the outrage or just keep the think tank gravy train going?

saip · Post by **saip** » 20 Dec 2013 04:00

This will shut the door on India claiming immunity for DK after being posted to the UN mission.

But as long as she enjoys diplomatic immunity she should be safe from arrest and summons even for those acts that happened before her acquiring the immunity. (Like it happened for Paki president Zardari). Just my opinion.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 04:01

There are a couple of brown sahib MUTUs and useful idiots going at it on my FB wall. I tore a new one for a couple of them. Waiting for un-friending

.

My FB wall statistics are not good, we have way too many Mir Jafars amongst us.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Dec 2013 04:12

Time to start revoking visas of some of the people in US embassy and consulates, especially the family/partners. Give them 2-3 days to leave so that they are not in a position to celebrate christmas with their families. Will hurt them where it matters

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 04:24

hate crimes and corruption are ~~uni~~multiversal cross cutting all human established boundaries

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 20 Dec 2013 04:26

In the end, if the "relationship" mandates that it is OK for the US to fund/arm the Pakistanis to high heaven, endangering every single Indian - then it is time for a massive rethink.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 04:29

you know what.. if one country hates us, hit the country that befriends the country that hates us. this is silly, but it will work..as it gives advanced notice to the country that hates us. this will also improve our capability and maturity to strike.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 20 Dec 2013 04:33

krisna wrote:RD what you are saying makes sense in larger scheme of things, but the present epiosde has potential to torpedo this very scheme of uncle.

elephant getting pissed is no funny thing. with elections looming near it is a near stupid and failed mission.

They could have done in a usual behind the scenes show of bringing the elpehant with their vision which is easier than public humiliation.
even if congis accept it others (in India) will up the ante.

somehow I am not convnced with this arrognace from uncle.

They need to be put down a few notches from their pedestal. The question is how incluidng the reasons for this behaviour.

jmts.

Krisna it is very simple.

Over the past decade, especially from 2004 onwards, the US has nurtured very many proxy assets at all levels of GOI, Sonia's NAC, "civil society", the bureaucracy and NGOs in India.

Using all these assets they have had some successes at influencing Indian policy towards US interests, and against Indian interests. Sharm-el-Shaikh, Aman ki Asha, Uninterruptible Dialogue on Siachen/Sir Creek, Non-response to 26/11, votes against Iran in UN, softpedalling the Headley extradition, betraying our commitment of strategic support to Karzai, keeping a low profile in Afghanistan etc.

However they have had some failures as well. Nuke Liability Bill, EULA, CISMOA, MMRCA deal, pan-Asian alliance against China, disapproval of intervention in Syria, and most recently-- Myanmar and Bangladesh, where we continue to pursue a policy that is (thankfully) in our own interests and contradicts US interests.

Now the whole gravy train on which these assets were riding is coming to its final stop. Congress will be OUT in 2014. Whoever comes in (unless it is Kejriwal) will change things sufficiently to end the utility of the US' investment in cultivating assets from 2004 onwards.

So now it does not matter. It is the final few rounds of the game. You play the cards in your hand without planning too far into the future, because the cards will anyway be of no use to you when the game is over, no? The US' objective now is to solidify whatever short-term gains are possible because long-term gains are off the table. The assets are not going to be useful for much longer anyway, so what is to be lost by becoming arrogant in your (ab)use of them?

India is waking up to its "used c0nd0m" moment, like every non-white US ally in history has ever had. That is all.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 04:38

ramana wrote:Someone ask Nirupama Rao & TP Sreenivasan what relationship?

And do IFS seniors feel for the outrage or just keep the think tank gravy train going?

She was busy justifying free power to Pak as well.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Dec 2013 04:40

Rajiv Malhotra wrote two months back on NGOs and human trafficking. Wish GOI had paid attention to it.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/10/15/m ... 46233.html

Dramatic scandals routinely fill India’s media headlines about some poor victim from a remote area being exploited by upper strata Delhi elites. Yet there is no investigative journalism to uncover the inconvenient facts about certain NGOs that operate what amounts to a human trafficking industry. One reason for this conspiracy of silence is that the traffickers are linked with some politically connected NGOs that make noises in the metros ostensibly on behalf of the victims. In reality the noise made serves to cover up the sinister role of NGOs in this industry that brings Christianity to the remote villages in exchange for maids to Delhi.

The elaborate scheme works as follows. Christian missionaries in adivasi (indigenous, “tribal”) areas offer poor families an inducement that is hard to resist: If the family converts to Christianity, one of its young daughters will be sent as a domestic servant to Delhi or another metro.

The affiliated “agencies” in the metros collect placement fees up to Rs 50,000 per maid from the household that hires them. In between the point of “recruitment” and the point of placement there are intermediaries that “sell”, transfer and move the young, vulnerable person through the supply chain. Money is exchanged at each stage.

The agencies keep relocating the same girl from one employer to another every few months in order to collect their placement fee repeatedly. This disruption adds to the trauma of the young girl. The agency becomes, by default, her only hope of security, and in the process she becomes even more vulnerable to the agency’s exploitation. Delhi alone is estimated to have several thousands of such girls being brought every year.

The cultural gap between India’s adivasis and its metro elites is larger in many ways than the gap between people living in Delhi and New York. The victim often gets duped into thinking that she is headed for the good life of an Indian metro, and her parents are often hand in glove in selling her into such a scheme. The money given to the parents is a “down payment” to convert them, their daughter’s placement as maid being part of the transaction. Many churches also provide safe transfer of the girl’s monthly salary back to her parents, with a certain “donation” charged by the church for its services. All this is a package deal for “being saved”.

This end-to-end system functions like the old slave trade from Africa to America and other continents — in which the church had also played a major role. Today’s racket hides behind the mask of helping the downtrodden by finding them employment in a faraway place. By no means do I wish to imply that all abuses of maids from villages are the result of this system, but that fact that such a system exists outside the bounds of investigative scrutiny is noteworthy.

In the most recent episode of this tragedy, a woman executive working for a French multinational in Delhi has been arrested on charges of committing atrocities against a girl from the Santhal tribe of Jharkhand state. The maid comes from Sahibgunj, one of India’s poorest districts. The media is having a field day sensationalising this as child labour, even after the police confirmed that documents in her village show her to be over the age of 18. The girl had worked for this executive for only 3 months, prior to which she had worked in numerous other households in Delhi since age 15. So the child labour stage of her exploitation was done under several previous employers. But there is no investigation of the previous employers. Why?

The reason for authorities not pursuing the earlier employers is that the girl is a Christian convert from a very poor family; and uncovering the entire chain of events and parties involved would expose the nexus of the Jharkhand church, the political parties that use these poor folks as their vote bank, and various NGOs involved in so-called “human rights” programs. The placement agency in Delhi is run by a Christian woman with likely links to the Jharkhand Church. The media sensationalises the matter as an isolated, localised episode when in fact it deserves to be investigated as a system of mafia-like underground network.

Brinda Karat, the rabid voice of the Communist Party of India, swung into rapid action targeting the maid’s employer, but not wanting a broader inquiry into the supply network that originates in the remote villages where her party seeks support from the church and NGOs.

Many other political leaders also saw opportunity in this scandal to show support for dalit communities whose votes can swing elections. These remote villages are also infested with Maoists seeking to topple the Indian state. The political stakes are high and NGOs compete to prove their worth by claiming to champion the plight of the poor. The same NGOs also raise funds under various “noble” pretexts.

The media ought to act more responsibly than selling us Bollywood-style action drama. To expose the large criminal networks and attack the roots of the problem, they should emphasize some systemic changes. First and foremost, it should be declared illegal to offer employment or other material inducements for religious conversion of poor and vulnerable persons. In particular, the church, parents and agencies that are involved in peddling the labor of a person under age 18 should be prosecuted. This is the nexus where the focus of prosecution should be targeted when incidents of abuse are discovered.

At the same time, one should recognise the legitimate need for domestic servants in Indian metros. To serve this demand, agencies should have to be certified periodically that they are in compliance with all laws. This must include transparency of disclosure of the full details concerning every employee and employer served. There must be a mechanism by which the legal age of a potential maid can be formally ascertained and the agency must bear this burden prior to offering her as a candidate. All commissions and salary payments must be legalised.

The media must start educating the metro employers about the laws concerning minimum wages and others aspects. Right now most Delhi households lack such awareness, as the media has focused on sensationalism without its shouldering social responsibility or due diligence.

There are also many instances of exploitation in the reverse direction that should be noted: Elderly persons in Delhi are too often being criminally attacked by their domestic servants who threaten legal action with the help of NGOs, and thereby prevent the crime from being reported. I know of cases where a youth gang has repeatedly burglarised the house of an elderly woman living alone. The police have been reluctant to file charges because of the threat by NGOs that these youth criminals are protected as “minors”. This means tougher juvenile crime laws need to be enacted and enforced.

I have anticipated such NGO-backed crimes within India since the 1990s when I first became aware of foreign nexuses intervening in India’s so-called tribal areas. It was a Harvard Roundtable Conference on Indology sponsored by Infinity foundation where I found that Western scholars had become very interested in Indian communities belonging to the “Munda” family of languages. The thesis formulated was that the Munda people were the only indigenous peoples of India. They were first invaded by the “foreign Dravidians” coming from the Middle East, and later on both the Munda and the Dravidians got invaded by the “foreign Aryans”. Thus, Indians were classified into layers with the intention of empowering one group against the others. In my earlier book, Breaking India, I mention some important US based interventions through this type of anthropology and linguistics work.

The Santhal community where the maid in the latest scandal comes from is one of the largest communities in what is called India’s “tribal belt”. Most anthropological studies on them were done by Christian missionaries since British times. The colonial-evangelical lens used was the same as for other non-Christian peoples that were encountered outside Europe, and many of its prejudices have become accepted by modern Indians. The “tribals” are considered “pagans” because they believe in “animism”, meaning that they consider all of nature as inhabited with divine spirit. (Ironically, the latest trend among Western thinkers is to appropriate these very ideas into Judeo-Christianity, using fancy new terms like “panentheism” and “immanence” after studying Hindu philosophy on which such ideas are based.) These villages have been a hotbed for missionary activities for the past few centuries, and this intensified in 1914 when the first complete translation of the Bible into the Santali language was finished by a Norwegian missionary.

Clearly, the battle for fragmenting Indians has entered a new phase. “Tribal” Indians will be increasingly exploited in various ways in the guise of bringing them human rights. The media’s framing of such episodes as “secular” crimes of an isolated kind is a shallow and inadequate treatment of what is much deeper and multilayered. This issue has far reaching implications.

Read the comments where a raging war similar to here between smart people is going on.

---
Anyway how did Devayani Khobargade end up hiring Sangeeta Richards for maid job in US? And what background check was made before that?

Are the Richards family fitting the profile that RM talks about?

-----------------

RD what if its a US move to clean break before the baloon goes up?
And did you think of the China heating up angle?

Indian MUTUS like Manjo Joshi are braying in India Today about war in East China Sea as if it is theri father's business.

Meanwhile read and cry a shaden fraud article in niticentral

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/12/19/k ... 70589.html

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 04:41

LokeshC wrote:There are a couple of brown sahib MUTUs and useful idiots going at it on my FB wall. I tore a new one for a couple of them. Waiting for un-friending .

My FB wall statistics are not good, we have way too many Mir Jafars amongst us.

Unfortunately, some people conflate their dislike for babus with current issue. Others will figure US is so lawful onlee and ignore how it treats other nations.
Mega confusion allowing for diversion.

Basically, link the images/vids of those strip searches and ask point blank, what if this was somebody known to you? People find it easy to think this is all some small airport style check pockets onlee sort of stuff.

--
Seeing Ms NSs comments above, I doubt anything will be done by great sarkaar as well. Our outrage will remain outrage. But at least we have that.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 04:45

ramana wrote: Meanwhile read and cry a shaden fraud article in niticentral

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/12/19/k ... 70589.html

Completely disagree with this article. Gave up midway. Irrespective of how IFS is and claims against Mrs DK, this is an Indian national issue.

Ramu · Post by **Ramu** » 20 Dec 2013 05:03

Rudradev, that is a well articulated summary.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 05:05

Actually it has reached a point where I dont care much about how the "image management" and justification of the issue is done anymore. NYDA house sepoy and his co-horts will not listen, neither will SD. They want to make an example out of DK.

All I care about is that DK not serve time in prison and safely returns to India. If GOI can do that much, it will be a great achievement. Prison in the US is extremely dehumanizing, prison anywhere for that matter.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 20 Dec 2013 05:08

Lokesh - the only way this thing ends with DK returning quickly, if the US has to do a prisoner exchange. The arrest of a US diplomat on similar trumped up charges is mandatory.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 20 Dec 2013 05:13

Not only that but order a bond of $1 million

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 20 Dec 2013 05:55

Where did rumor of cavity search start?

http://www.thestatesman.net/news/30760-india-us-talk-steps-to-end-stand-off.html?page=4

The US Marshals Service has, meanwhile, denied that Ms Khobragade was subjected to a cavity search, as is being alleged.
“In reference to your question about the cavity search, the answer is no,” Ms Nikki Credic-Barrett, spokesperson of the US Marshals Service, told PTI in Washington tonight. She, however, confirmed that Ms Khobragade was subjected to a strip-search.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 20 Dec 2013 05:59

Where did rumor of cavity search start?

Oh yeah they stripped her forcibly and peered up her cavities. So much more civilised. Dipanker should give the US Marshals a medal.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:00

The programming is strong here.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 20 Dec 2013 06:14

I thought that Indian leftist libtards in India were bad, but the very worst ones appear to be NRIs and PIOs in the US, with their whole hysterical outrage over the $3 bucks an hour the poor maid was being paid, with the remaining $6 presumably hidden in DK's various orfices, and the sanctity of US "law". What a nauseating spectacle.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:18

So Devyani managed to wrangle a flat in Adrash as well.

Strong political connections she surely has.

No like.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 20 Dec 2013 06:25

@haluku - Are you justifying sexual assault by a foreign government because she has political connections?

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:27

Some interesting facts about Divyani and her father and their properties and holdings

http://moneylife.in/article/who-is-devy ... 35684.html

FWIW

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:28

Madhusudhan wrote:@haluku - Are you justifying sexual assault by a foreign government because she has political connections?

Its hulaku.

A cavity search =/= sexual assault.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 06:29

Dipanker wrote:Where did rumor of cavity search start?

http://www.thestatesman.net/news/30760-india-us-talk-steps-to-end-stand-off.html?page=4

The US Marshals Service has, meanwhile, denied that Ms Khobragade was subjected to a cavity search, as is being alleged.
“In reference to your question about the cavity search, the answer is no,” Ms Nikki Credic-Barrett, spokesperson of the US Marshals Service, told PTI in Washington tonight. She, however, confirmed that Ms Khobragade was subjected to a strip-search.

Yes, DK was lying and the above folks are speaking the truth. As always.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 06:30

hulaku wrote:
Madhusudhan wrote:@haluku - Are you justifying sexual assault by a foreign government because she has political connections?
Its hulaku.

A cavity search =/= sexual assault.

Pray, elaborate the differences. Also please tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 20 Dec 2013 06:32

Poor UPA is forced to show balls in service of the tricolor it doesn't particularly seem to care for anyway... explains their pious grumpiness in this case.

On the whole, one can see the Indo-US relationboat going downhill and pretty fast too. Good, I reckon, as long as it is govt-to-govt relations that take a hammering.

Way past time that GoI keep an arms length and then some vis a vis GoUnkil. RD sir's argument regarding unkil playing its cards in a finite horizon game nearing its last stage is plausible at multiple levels.

As for unkil wanting to use downgraded relationboat as a bargaining chip for which India must make concessions to regain 'normalcy' (classic old style 'creating a pressure point' tactics), I wish them well trying it on a NM administration.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:35

The programming is really strong here

I know this is cryptic oneliner, but man some of us have the gungadeenitis so ingrained into our heads that there is absolutely zero cognitive dissonance. We just start trying to slander the crap of our own in order to justify an action of an external entity on the Indian state. Its like an automatic reaction that "there must be something wrong with her", because the US justice system cannot be wrong. And I know one of them is in the wrong... therefore it must be her. Its like a light switch that does only one thing... no critical thinking of what is being implied.

Must give it to Macaulay and his self-perpetuating children.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 06:36

Good points as always Hari saar. I find Ms Nirupama Sub.'s comments in this case to lack any clear sense of outrage or anger. Its more "ho hum".
More worried about "maintaining relations" than getting justice.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:38

Karan M wrote:Pray, elaborate the differences. Also please tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Is that a serious question ?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 20 Dec 2013 06:40

And Sangeeta Richard is not our own?

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:41

Dipanker wrote:And Sangeeta Richard is not our own?

This. Nailed it.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:41

Sure she is and that is why the issue is an internal Indian matter.

hulaku · Post by **hulaku** » 20 Dec 2013 06:44

LokeshC wrote:Sure she is and that is why the issue is an internal Indian matter.

Internal Indian matter being played out in New York ?

The "so-called" crime was committed on US soil so their rules apply.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 20 Dec 2013 06:45

We can discuss Sangeetha the instant she surrenders. She absconded, she parted with a foreign government.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:45

----del

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:45

hulaku wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Sure she is and that is why the issue is an internal Indian matter.
Internal Indian matter being played out in New York ?

The "so-called" crime was committed on US soil so their rules apply.

Maybe you should read the past few pages of the thread before trolling?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 20 Dec 2013 06:47

Every ew pages some guy comes up, asking us to repeat the whole argument for him

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 06:48

~~Its like a river.. nay an avalanche of MUTU Gungadeens... non stop. And this is BRF...~~

I am saying this one final time. No name calling will be tolerated against posters on BRF. You can disagree with their POV and counter them. Or ignore them. If someone is trolling, leave it to mods to sort that out. This thread has multiple mods participating in the discussion. But no name calling. Anyone doing so will get a warning. - rohitvats