India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Cosmo_R
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 20 Dec 2013 20:22

vic wrote:I am astounded by clearance given to C-130 deal, the munna could not wait even a few days? No more posts from me, am aghast at this shameless corrupt government.


I realize emotions (mine included) are running high. However, the C-130s are something the IAF/SF desperately need. To delay/derail this would be no different than losing arty vendor suing MoD and delaying induction. LM and Boeing are our friends and they have far more clout with the US Congress than we will ever have.

Let us not cut off our nose to spite our face. There are enough reciprocal measures that GoI (if it wants to) can take.

As Rajeev Malhotra says: "Good cop/ Bad cop.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 20 Dec 2013 20:23

Times Now was talking about the "mysterious" aircraft that flew in the night taking Sangeeta Richard's family. Was it a regular commercial flight? I know several flights bound to Europe/USA depart from Indian cities around midnight. Or was it specially chartered or some clandestine operation?

Looks like after chest thumping, India is softening its stance.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sridhar » 20 Dec 2013 20:25

The crux of the problem is that the US has arbitrarily made a distinction between consular officials, who are not subject to local laws, and personal staff who are according to the US (and in contravention of Article 47 of he Vienna conventions). It provides them different categories of visas, and has created the untenable situation where maids and janitorial staff are expected to be paid more than diplomats and other GoI employees (office staff, for instance) at the consulate. It is a pity that instead of fighting this on the basis of the Vienna conventions, GOI decided to let the diplomats deal with it, under the understanding that the US would not implement its law strictly.

If GOI wanted to really operate on the principle of reciprocity, they would revoke the visas of everybody in the US missions other than diplomats and office staff, and for full measure, prevent them from employing Indians in these positions, and create a new category of visas for these employees (maids, gradeners and security personnel) with our own arbitrary restrictions. Let's see how they run their missions under these conditions.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mahesh_R » 20 Dec 2013 20:29

rajithn wrote:I believe that it is the IFS cadre that is keeping the heat on.


If DK convicted of the charges..the whole of IFS cadre should mass resign...even better if they should do it before mms and kurshid bows down ..we had started seeing the statements of kursh ...i had expected atleast 1 month for GoI to act but its just been 8 days..we started backing down..another 4 days ...on our knees...i pity the babu's who work for the country expecting GoI support ...
poor chaps..
Even if DK was released after paying a fine (which will be footed by GoI) it's still a stigma that DK will carry thru out her life...had been convicted... no matter who ever pays the fine..

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 20:29

rohitvats wrote:
chetak wrote:<SNIP>
They may not even allow retrograde upgradation to full diplomatic status from the present consular status, per some reports.<SNIP>


One rediff article that I read quoted unnamed US sources that while the immunity may not apply from retrospective effect, they cannot ask or get a person with full immunity to appear in the court. We may have a case of in-absentia hearing and verdict. But I think this will destroy any chance of her working on US soil ever. In official or personal capacity.

And the US State Department is bound to receive load of flak from domestic audience if they give full immunity with retrospective effect and basically allow her to go 'Scot free'.



Was working in US such a desirable ultimate objective over promoting interest of India?? But if India wants to cock a snook and post DK in UN assignment with full diplomatic immunity US can do a zilch uless they choose to violate fullfledged diplomatic immunity.

Secondly , there is no such thing called retrospective immunity.
I heard this crap talk for the first time from Americans and we are lapping it up. Once she is accredited nothing can be done to her person. Immunity lasts as long as she is Diplomat with UN. She is free to live in US, roam around freely, not appear in courts and may be even commit murder ( not that I suggest she do). She would also be free to leave US whenever she chooses. That is the reason she has been transferred to UN Mission with status of Diplomat. The only hitch would be that her case will be referred to US State Dept for consent before accredited by UN. US may deny consent and prevent accreditation citing pending court cases.But if she gets holed up in Indian Mission with Husband working out of mission etc US can do nothing. They cant enter Indian Mission without getting paid in same coin.( the current govt has no such intention or guts though)

So talk of retrospective immunity is to be trashed and it is crap talk from idiot amrikhans. Show them Middle finger. DK would safe and secure in Indian Mission whether accredited after change of status or not. Nothing is going to happen on Jan 13 or any other date. Yes America has lost lot of goodwill ( except with congis who are trying to GUBO which they practice daily with US ) and it has to decide where it wants to take US-Indian Relations in future. For betterment they would have to make lot of amends.
Last edited by chaanakya on 20 Dec 2013 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 20 Dec 2013 20:30

the time for apprehending US diplomats is already over. They should have been apprehended immidiately. Now Congis are looking for a face saver and even that is not coming. Somehow their predicament is at the expense of India, and that is my only lament. Stop picking up the phone and speaking to sundry Americans, and just hunker down and do not let them in on anything. Since this is such a spineless bunch .. silent resolve also has a weight of it's own, especially if it's a comes from a giant.

Reciprocity in this case has been a damp squib.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 20 Dec 2013 20:30

Sridhar spot on.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 20:35

SwamyG wrote:Times Now was talking about the "mysterious" aircraft that flew in the night taking Sangeeta Richard's family. Was it a regular commercial flight? I know several flights bound to Europe/USA depart from Indian cities around midnight. Or was it specially chartered or some clandestine operation?

Looks like after chest thumping, India is softening its stance.

AI 101 leaves Delhi 1.35 Am regular flight of Air India to New York. Mystery is created by TimesNow.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 20 Dec 2013 20:39

This explains a lot


Newsmaker: Devyani Khobragade





When Murli Deora, then petroleum minister, visited Pakistan in 2008, the first person that Muhammad Mian Somroo, caretaker prime minister of Pakistan at the time, enquired about was Devyani Khobragade, a little-known Indian diplomat who served in the Indian mission in that country. Obviously, she had impressed the Pakistanis enough to get the attention of even the prime minister. But Khobragade, now 39 years old, had always been a spunky woman, adventurous and a go-getter. At the time that she was posted in Pakistan (2007-2010), there was internal strife and bomb blasts had become routine. The government gave her the option of returning home after a year of service in that country. She refused and insisted she would complete the full tenure of three years. "She always asked for challenging postings. She left quite an impression in Pakistan," says her father, Uttam Khobargade, a former Indian Administrative Officer of the Maharashtra cadre.

Given her spunky nature, there naturally were concerns when she talked of an experience that she said had driven her to tears. Overnight, she became a cause celebre when law enforcers in New York arrested her and allegedly treated her as a common criminal, strip-searched her and put her behind bars with drug addicts on the charge of underpaying her maid, Sangeeta Richard. Khobragade, however, has pleaded not guilty and has been granted bail.

Khobragade joined the Indian Foreign Service in 1999, and has so far served in political divisions of the Indian missions in Pakistan, Italy and Germany. New York was her last posting where she served as a deputy consul general before being transferred to the United Nations on Wednesday.

The arrest has had a bizarre aftermath, with the Indian government taking an unprecedented series of steps, like deciding to review diplomatic status of US staff in India, withdrawing certain import privileges of the US Embassy, even dismantling the concrete barricades around the American mission in New Delhi.

"I am overwhelmed with your support and words are not enough to describe it," she told Business Standard over the phone in her first reaction after her release on bail.

It is not for the first time, however, that Khobragade finds herself in the limelight. Her name was mentioned in relation to the Adarsh scam, in which she faced accusations of having purchased property in the housing society despite being the owner of one in another society, a contravention of laws in Mumbai. "She has done nothing wrong. We got the property under the reserved quota. I had applied in her name and made the payments from her bank accounts. We sold the property at Oshiwara and bought another at Adarsh because of its better location," says her father, an aspiring politician.

Media reports have listed the numerous properties existing in her name, though equally, they have said most of them are "inherited" properties. The senior Khobragade says he is very fond of his elder daughter when explaining how the diplomat came to own so many inherited properties.

The petite diplomat is married to Prakash Singh Rathore, a professor of philosophy, who taught at the University of Rome. She met him in Germany. They have two daughters, Amaya Singh Khobragade, 7, and Shaira Singh Khobragade, 4. "My daughter is very caring of her parents and has given my family name to her two daughters," says the former IAS officer of his granddaughters' surnames.

Khobragade has always loved adventure and relished sports such as horse riding, river rafting, bungee jumping and skiing. She was also a brilliant student, having cleared the civil services exam at her very first attempt. Tushar Behera, one of her batchmates during training for the civil services, remembers her as a lively and outgoing person. And while Khobragade regularly updates her status on Facebook with news of herself in newspapers and television channels, she is not overly gregarious and has a small friends' list on the social networking site.



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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 20:42

Mahesh_R wrote:
Even if DK was released after paying a fine (which will be footed by GoI) it's still a stigma that DK will carry thru out her life...had been convicted... no matter who ever pays the fine..


Why Stigma. We should then award her Padma and invite US Amby to attend the ceremony. Allow her to contest election and make her Cabinet Minister in charge of US affairs and see the fun. If Laoo getting convicted on serious charges attract no stigma and congis want to alliance with them then DK need not worry about all this. She is not at fault at all. She is victim of deeper conspiracy. Don't forget she has Dalit status here though US may not realise it. This point can be stressed upon to reduce the bargaining power of Missionaries with SCs.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 20 Dec 2013 20:43

chaanakya wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Times Now was talking about the "mysterious" aircraft that flew in the night taking Sangeeta Richard's family. Was it a regular commercial flight? I know several flights bound to Europe/USA depart from Indian cities around midnight. Or was it specially chartered or some clandestine operation?

Looks like after chest thumping, India is softening its stance.

AI 101 leaves Delhi 1.35 Am regular flight of Air India to New York. Mystery is created by TimesNow.

The word "evacuation" is being thrown around by Preet. http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 477828.ece This is serious if they are Indian citizens. No?

How many protocols and rules have been broken? And India will back out like all the time it does.

chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 20:47

habal wrote:the time for apprehending US diplomats is already over. They should have been apprehended immidiately. Now Congis are looking for a face saver and even that is not coming. Somehow their predicament is at the expense of India, and that is my only lament. Stop picking up the phone and speaking to sundry Americans, and just hunker down and do not let them in on anything. Since this is such a spineless bunch .. silent resolve also has a weight of it's own, especially if it's a comes from a giant.

Reciprocity in this case has been a damp squib.


Not necessary . They can be arrested even at a later date (When DK is in India Mission ). Reciprocity means immediate and not after one week. So let the storm pass and then arrest. But seriously do you really think that Congis are going to resort to that and carry it through??

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 20 Dec 2013 20:55

chetak wrote:This explains a lot


Newsmaker: Devyani Khobragade





When Murli Deora, then petroleum minister, visited Pakistan in 2008, the first person that Muhammad Mian Somroo, caretaker prime minister of Pakistan at the time, enquired about was Devyani Khobragade, a little-known Indian diplomat who served in the Indian mission in that country. Obviously, she had impressed the Pakistanis enough to get the attention of even the prime minister. But Khobragade, now 39 years old, had always been a spunky woman, adventurous and a go-getter. At the time that she was posted in Pakistan (2007-2010), there was internal strife and bomb blasts had become routine. The government gave her the option of returning home after a year of service in that country. She refused and insisted she would complete the full tenure of three years. "She always asked for challenging postings. She left quite an impression in Pakistan," says her father, Uttam Khobargade, a former Indian Administrative Officer of the Maharashtra cadre.

Given her spunky nature, there naturally were concerns when she talked of an experience that she said had driven her to tears. Overnight, she became a cause celebre when law enforcers in New York arrested her and allegedly treated her as a common criminal, strip-searched her and put her behind bars with drug addicts on the charge of underpaying her maid, Sangeeta Richard. Khobragade, however, has pleaded not guilty and has been granted bail.

Khobragade joined the Indian Foreign Service in 1999, and has so far served in political divisions of the Indian missions in Pakistan, Italy and Germany. New York was her last posting where she served as a deputy consul general before being transferred to the United Nations on Wednesday.

The arrest has had a bizarre aftermath, with the Indian government taking an unprecedented series of steps, like deciding to review diplomatic status of US staff in India, withdrawing certain import privileges of the US Embassy, even dismantling the concrete barricades around the American mission in New Delhi.

"I am overwhelmed with your support and words are not enough to describe it," she told Business Standard over the phone in her first reaction after her release on bail.

It is not for the first time, however, that Khobragade finds herself in the limelight. Her name was mentioned in relation to the Adarsh scam, in which she faced accusations of having purchased property in the housing society despite being the owner of one in another society, a contravention of laws in Mumbai. "She has done nothing wrong. We got the property under the reserved quota. I had applied in her name and made the payments from her bank accounts. We sold the property at Oshiwara and bought another at Adarsh because of its better location," says her father, an aspiring politician.

Media reports have listed the numerous properties existing in her name, though equally, they have said most of them are "inherited" properties. The senior Khobragade says he is very fond of his elder daughter when explaining how the diplomat came to own so many inherited properties.

The petite diplomat is married to Prakash Singh Rathore, a professor of philosophy, who taught at the University of Rome. She met him in Germany. They have two daughters, Amaya Singh Khobragade, 7, and Shaira Singh Khobragade, 4. "My daughter is very caring of her parents and has given my family name to her two daughters," says the former IAS officer of his granddaughters' surnames.

Khobragade has always loved adventure and relished sports such as horse riding, river rafting, bungee jumping and skiing. She was also a brilliant student, having cleared the civil services exam at her very first attempt. Tushar Behera, one of her batchmates during training for the civil services, remembers her as a lively and outgoing person. And while Khobragade regularly updates her status on Facebook with news of herself in newspapers and television channels, she is not overly gregarious and has a small friends' list on the social networking site.




The petite diplomat is married to Prakash Singh Rathore, a professor of philosophy, who taught at the University of Rome. She met him in Germany. They have two daughters, Amaya Singh Khobragade, 7, and Shaira Singh Khobragade, 4. "My daughter is very caring of her parents and has given my family name to her two daughters," says the former IAS officer of his granddaughters' surnames.


Or maybe caring of the reserved quota which may disappear with a surname like Rathore.
And why should they still be under the reserved quota. Sigh!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ManjaM » 20 Dec 2013 20:55

Good god, why is the very senile Meghnad Desai invited to the 2X4 split-screen panel discussion? The channels seem to be taking the onus of providing an viewpoint that is alternate to the GoI one, while that responsibility is entirely that of US Government. There was one discussion where Mr Parthasarathy was making good points and taking on some US foreign service person, but had to suffer persistent sneak attacks from this Desai buffoon, the attacks being comparable to what some posters are indulging in here.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 20:56

Well Congis are just bending over. MSM is now twisting the same statement and fact to indicate conciliatory tone. See the spin in the headline to the story.
Devyani Khobragade’s arrest: India talks of conciliation, says it will find a solution; BJP praises govt for ‘courage’



External affairs minister Salman Khurshid sounded hopeful of finding a way out when he told reporters here, "We are going to find a solution. And I hope that we will find a solution."

A day after he demanded dropping of charges against Khobragade unconditionally, Khurshid on Friday said, "I am conscious of the fact that this is a valuable relationship between two countries" while dealing with the "hurtful" and "unacceptable" treatment meted out to our diplomat.




BJP praises govt New Delhi, Dec 20 (PTI) Government today earned a rare praise from senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha who said it had shown "some courage" in dealing with the US over diplomat Devyani Khobragade issue.

Sinha, former external affairs minister, advocated tough action against US diplomats in India if they were found violating rules and laws, as a tit-for-tat measure.

"They (government) have shown some courage in taking some of the steps and there is commitment of the external affairs minister (Salman Khurshid) in Parliament to take further steps," he told PTI.



Victor
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Victor » 20 Dec 2013 20:57

Does any of this make sense:

* Sangeeta Richards absconds from her legal employer in NYC and in effect becomes an "illegal" in US. Indian embassy tips off US legal machinery including immigration authorities.

* Under normal circumstances, US legal system and immigration authorities will come down like a ton of bricks on such a person and at minimum deport them or hand them over to Indian embassy for deportation. Instead, the US legal system accepts the illegal abscondee as a "trafficked" person based solely on her version of events, files charges against Devyani, arrests her in the open for all to see and humiliates her, the Indian foreign service and all Indians in the most egregious way.

* Not just Sangeeta but her family also is put under legal proceedings in India.

* US follows this up by taking it upon themselves to remove Sangeeta's family from India in order to "protect" them from Indian law and bring them forcibly under US law citing "human trafficking". It's like India taking some black murder suspect in Chicago to India to "protect" him from US law in the name of "racial prejudice & human rights"!

None of this makes any sense if taken at face value so we need to look at the net effect: Sangeeta Richard and family is out of reach of Indian law and cannot be questioned or touched--just like David Headley. So it's very likely that they are as dangerous to India as David Headley was and the US has as much to hide here as they do with David Headley.

There is something really big behind all of this and in order to divert attention, the US has shifted the focus onto a public humiliation and a custodial rape after they slapped a bogus "human trafficking" charge so anything India says can and will be linked to an "inhuman record on religious and social justice".

Sangeeta Richard and her family were already "Americans spies" for all practical purposes before she left India. My suspicion is that she was being used to snare Devyani with promises of huge money and US citizenship for her entire family. A senior Dalit officer being recruited by an Indian Christian maid would give the Americans a major lever against India when Modi comes to power and perhaps even during the elections.

Whatever the truth, if the Indian government knows the real reason, they should spill the beans now and take Bharara and the NYDA to the ICJ where all the American sleaze can be inspected by Euros who might be very happy to do so.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 20 Dec 2013 21:00


SwamyG
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 20 Dec 2013 21:04

ManjaM wrote:Good god, why is the very senile Meghnad Desai invited to the 2X4 split-screen panel discussion? The channels seem to be taking the onus of providing an viewpoint that is alternate to the GoI one, while that responsibility is entirely that of US Government. There was one discussion where Mr Parthasarathy was making good points and taking on some US foreign service person, but had to suffer persistent sneak attacks from this Desai buffoon, the attacks being comparable to what some posters are indulging in here.

The two Times Now buffoons tried to interrupt what Parthasarthy was saying on NewsHour, he had to tell them to not interrupt him (right?). Later they tried to ignore his points, I sensed exasperation on Parthasarthy's face. Maybe I was reading too much into the affairs of media. But it is hard to not call media buffoons name, when guests/speakers are making coherent logical points and all they care is sensationalizing the news.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan Dixit » 20 Dec 2013 21:15

What I am saying in this post is not triggered by the current incident with Devyani Khobragade. However, this could have prevented such incident(s).

Indian diplomats in the US do not get the kind of privileges India accords the US diplomats in India. I do not know how long this has been going on but this is the root cause of the problem. Congress party could hardly conceal its glee when Modi was denied visa. They did not even seem to understand the sophistication and motivation of such US policy. It is truly sad.

Is GoI aware that Indian citizens are photographed and finger printed each time they enter the US?
Is GoI aware that Indian diplomats (even ambassador) are frisked when they pass through airport security?
Is Indian embassy (and consulates) allowed to erect barricade to protect itself from would be terrorist attacks in the US?
Do Indian diplomats enjoy immunity in the US?

If answer to those questions is no then why is GoI providing all those 'amenities' to the US diplomats and citizens?

This is what needs to be fixed without any fanfare and emotion. The US is a friendly country and we should not engage in unnecessary meaningless rhetoric against a friendly country.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22872 » 20 Dec 2013 21:18

Wasteful mental masturbation, move on...GUBO from India ->logical conclusion. in other words Chanikian way of dealing with massa.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 21:20

Karan Dixit wrote:

If answer to those questions is no then why is GoI providing all those 'amenities' to the US diplomats and citizens?
.

The answer to all your questions is a loud YES. Now tell , why congis are providing non reciprocal amenities. The answer is that they get private benefits to their wards/themselves.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ManjaM » 20 Dec 2013 21:20

SwamyG wrote:
ManjaM wrote:Good god, why is the very senile Meghnad Desai invited to the 2X4 split-screen panel discussion? The channels seem to be taking the onus of providing an viewpoint that is alternate to the GoI one, while that responsibility is entirely that of US Government. There was one discussion where Mr Parthasarathy was making good points and taking on some US foreign service person, but had to suffer persistent sneak attacks from this Desai buffoon, the attacks being comparable to what some posters are indulging in here.

The two Times Now buffoons tried to interrupt what Parthasarthy was saying on NewsHour, he had to tell them to not interrupt him (right?). Later they tried to ignore his points, I sensed exasperation on Parthasarthy's face. Maybe I was reading too much into the affairs of media. But it is hard to not call media buffoons name, when guests/speakers are making coherent logical points and all they care is sensationalizing the news.


Those 2 anchors, they are monkeys nothing else. Lightweight monkeys with little constuctive to offer to the debate, but take great pleasure in being the "Devils Advocate" which is nothing but a euphemism for having a blindly contrarian view while blissfully ignoring facts. These 2 anchors monkeys+buffoon Desai were doing the Amrican diplomats job for him. The American had a smug smile each time Desai managed to sneak a punch in on Mr Parthasarathy. Again, the onus of providing an alternate viewpoint is not on us. This needs to sink into the brains of news editors. I would like to see hour long programs on other such incidents of highhandedness by USMS, DAs office and NYPD and how the high and mighty are INDEED getting away with murder contrary to the claims of Bharara. Bharara needs to clean up NY before evacuating people from India.
Last edited by ManjaM on 20 Dec 2013 21:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ManjaM » 20 Dec 2013 21:27

I think its time to move on to looking into the legal aspects of the case itself. It appears that the charges will not be dropped, in spite of the feeble murmurs from GoI. One can get away with anything in the US, depending on how good a lawyer one can afford. GoI should seriously consider suing the DAs office and USMS and then punitive diplomatic and economic actions back in desh. Further, DK needs to file a defamation suit against the Richard woman and ensure wages get garnished for the next 10 years.
Can the lawyers on the board please educate some of us on how the case will proceed now?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Lilo » 20 Dec 2013 21:27

What a bunch of ball less buffoons @Yashwant Sinha and @Salman Kursh*t
Re : The C 130 deal - guess MMS heading the panel is more worthless to allow even a whiff of this selection to be outed till this diplomatic stand off was brought to a closure.

If country's leaders don't stand up for our diplomats wonder what incentive they will have to stay true to their mission in the future.
This weak kneed quaking in its pants response by GoI will sap the morale of the IFS cadre as a whole and Massa would have achieved its goal of demoralizing the one service in India that consistently defended Indian interests against Massa (and Western) encroachment jealously to the point of being a perpetual thorn to the foggy bottom c**ksu*kers.

BTW the personal antecedents of the Diplomat are not germane to the illegality and humiliation subjected on one of our Diplomatic corps. Wonder why people are still bringing that stuff which has no relevance.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22872 » 20 Dec 2013 21:29

Any Malayalees?, please translate:
http://marunadanmalayali.com/index.php? ... l&id=28537

says Mr. Richard is a Pakistani? Lord no bounds to what we are hearing on this issue.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Lilo » 20 Dec 2013 21:37

First of all why is Briturd Lard Meghnad Desai (who is as nonindian as one can be) and an obvious pegboy for Briturd interests is being parachuted into a discussion of such National Importance ?

Why is it that all our "celebrity" media buffoons lack even a minimum semblance of self worth allowing outsiders to lecture us on our National affairs that too in primetime ?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 20 Dec 2013 22:11

Who's your daddy Omar

12:22 pm: Omar questions removal of US embassy security barriers

Welcoming withdrawal of privileges to the US embassy officials in New Delhi, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has, however, cautioned this should not lead to compromising the security of the US embassy in New Delhi.

Reacting to India's response to the inhuman treatment meted out by the US to an Indian diplomat, Omar Abdullah said on his micro blogging Twitter site, "By all means withdraw all the special privileges bestowed on the US embassy in Delhi. Security has to be above political/diplomatic scraps."

"I'm all for reciprocity but removal of US embassy security barriers is taking things too far. These barriers weren't a privilege, were they?"

Also Read: Indian diplomat’s arrest: Omar questions removal of US embassy security barriers

merlin
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby merlin » 20 Dec 2013 22:14

I can't believe the mofos went and ordered the additional jerkules after all this!

pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 20 Dec 2013 22:28

Treat our diplomats as we treat yours: Foreign Secy tells US
Amid the row over the arrest and strip search of Deputy Consul General in New York Devyani Khobragade, Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh today said the US should extend courtesies to Indian diplomats on par with what are enjoyed by their American counterparts in India.

"We expect our diplomat to be given exactly the same courtesies that we extend to American diplomats or diplomat of any other country," Singh said.

I think the thinking behind the statement is wrong. What is wrong with the above statement?

...
...

The thinking has to change to "We will extend exactly the same courtesies to you that are given to our diplomat and no more". Why extend courtesies first and pray/beg for reciprocity?

KJo
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KJo » 20 Dec 2013 22:44

All we do is beg and plead and threaten and back down. We need to take concrete steps.

member_22733
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 20 Dec 2013 22:47

The last 10 years are a barometer that can predict the actions of GOI, we can throw the proverbial towel and move on. Except that the fallout of this case is going to be massive and long term for India.


-----------------

That mallu link has been proven to be pure BS. Mallus do have some very tabloidy newspapers.

habal
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 20 Dec 2013 22:49

Enough already ! Time to send RSS Karyakartas and Darul Uloom Deoband & Jamiat-e-Ulama Hind mujahids to US diplomatic posts. Rest of the posts to be filled by retired SPG/Garud/Para types only.

Samajwadi Party Naresh Aggarwal types shall also be frontrunners to any vacant diplomatic posts in US. Now cavity search that !

The last few pages have been full of ****** posts and rebuttals, so much so that one loses track of what is actually posted. To all those who would like to question India's position, please select another thread for your queries. It would be nice not to clutter this one that it is not even possible to update oneself of the latest.

don't twist a poster's username.
- Rahul
Last edited by Rahul M on 20 Dec 2013 23:21, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: edited

chaanakya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 20 Dec 2013 22:50

Safe Horizons, an Organisation whose Lawyer Dana Sussman is helping SR, has a tip sheet on Human Trafficking

Their Tips are as below:
Trafficking Indicators
http://www.safehorizon.org/images/uploa ... ipcard.pdf

Is the victim in possession of identification and travel documents; if not, who has control of the documents?
She was having official passport and came as IBDA.

Was the victim coached on what to say to law enforcement and immigration officials?
Dk or anyone was not present in the Interview. In fact her FIL was working in Embassy, such coaching seems to be impossibility. Hubby is also with another embassy. She was not satisfied with Hubby's salary in he beginning of her marriage and left home but returned only after she discovered that she was pregnant.

Was the victim recruited for one purpose and forced to engage in some other job?
From all accounts she was engaged for the purpose she was recruited. In fact she asked permission to moonlight and was denied. Could have been a trap.

Is the victim’s salary being garnished to pay off a smuggling fee? (Paying off a smuggling fee alone is not considered trafficking.)
There was no need to pay smuggling fee since she came on Official passport and Visa on Note Verbale.

Was the victim forced to perform sexual acts?
Not even claimed by any account so far.

Does the victim have freedom of movement?
She was moving freely , going to market , beauty parlours and churches etc.


Has the victim or family been threatened with harm if the victim attempts to escape?
No, in fact Indian legal system and US legal system were approached by the family.

Has the victim been threatened with deportation or law enforcement action?
Not till she absconds/disappears and does not return to work.

Has the victim been harmed or deprived of food, water, sleep, medical care or other life necessities?
Answer is no. In fact better facilities were available.

Can the victim freely contact friends or family?
She was in touch with family through modern means of communication. It was provided by the Family of Dk with Ipad and Sim with a facebook account and yahoo email ID.

Is the victim a juvenile engaged in commercial sex?
She is a mature adult and presumably not engaged in commercial sex

Is the victim allowed to socialize or attend religious services?
She was reportedly attending Church.


These are the probable answers , by all accounts in the media, and Safe Horizons Lawyer concludes that SR is a victim of Human trafficking


Now look at the Board of Directors and Companies they are associated with

Steven C. Parrish, Chair
Founder, Steve Parrish Consulting Group, LLC

Pamela N. Hootkin, Vice Chair & Treasurer

Michael C. Slocum, Vice Chair, Audit Committee Chair
President, Commercial Banking, Capital One Bank

Linda Fairstein, Secretary
Former prosecutor and best-selling crime novelist; legal expert on crimes of violence against women and children

Paul Germain
Global Head of Prime Services, Credit Suisse

Stephen McCandless, Investment Committee Chair

Cheryl Abel-Hodges
President, Calvin Klein Underwear

Sil Lai Abrams
Founder, Sepia LLC

Celia Goldwag Barenholtz
Partner, Litigation Department, Cooley LLP

Jeffrey S. Brodsky
Chief Human Resources Officer, Morgan Stanley

Nancy Clark
Senior Vice President, Operational Excellence & Process Transformation, Verizon

Joy Jones
General Counsel, Palm Restaurant Group

Monica A. Keany

Stephanie Kugelman
Founder Chairman A.S.0. A Second Opinion, Serves on Whole Foods Board and HSN Board

Linda Lam
Partner, Professional Practice Quality and Regulatory Matters, Ernst & Young

Joann Lang

Rohit Menezes
Partner, The Bridgespan Group

Martin D. Newman, Esq., Real Estate Committee Chair
Real Estate Investment Advisor and Consultant

Samantha Saperstein
Head of Card Strategy, Consumer and Community Banking, JPMorgan Chase

Mark C. Smith
Financial Advisor/ Account Vice President of Investments,
UBS Financial Services Inc.

Lauren Breitman Tanen
Vice President and Associate General Counsel, Employment, PVH Corp.

Emeriti

Brooke McMurray
Susan Solomon
Most Reverend Joseph M. Sullivan


Now you know whom to catch in India and squeeze their balls without causing diplomatic issues.

a_bharat
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 20 Dec 2013 22:54

Now the primary goal should be forcing the US to back down. Getting DK back is secondary and should not be done by groveling. India should send a clear signal to US that we are ready to martyr DK, but if it comes to that will take down one US diplomat also.

vera_k
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 20 Dec 2013 23:06

12:22 pm: Omar questions removal of US embassy security barriers

"I'm all for reciprocity but removal of US embassy security barriers is taking things too far. These barriers weren't a privilege, were they?"


If the security barriers weren't a privilege, there should be records of how much the embassy was paying or being billed for those barriers. Have the barriers been paid for going back to the time they were first placed?

Dipanker
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Dipanker » 20 Dec 2013 23:07

habal wrote:Enough already ! Time to send RSS Karyakartas and Darul Uloom Deoband & Jamiat-e-Ulama Hind mujahids to US diplomatic posts. Rest of the posts to be filled by retired SPG/Garud/Para types only.

Samajwadi Party Naresh Aggarwal types shall also be frontrunners to any vacant diplomatic posts in US. Now cavity search that !

The last few pages have been full of Defunker's posts and rebuttals, so much so that one loses track of what is actually posted. To all those who would like to question India's position, please select another thread for your queries. It would be nice not to clutter this one that it is not even possible to update oneself of the latest.


Mr. Habal let keep the conversation civilized, you didn't need to twist my moniker, you could have just used Dipanker instead.

Hopefully the MODS take notice of this and ask you to edit your post. Thanks,

Prem
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 20 Dec 2013 23:08

Pratyush wrote:And give in to US bullying tactics. Hell no, this must be allowed to play it self out. As it will set a judicial precedent. The thing is that international relations are governed by reciprocity. If the stupid yanks are not following Vienna convention. It will remove the onus from the rest of the world to to follow the convention WRT, the Americans.
Say bring it on.

++
Sentencing her will make her Hero, darling of Billions of people and finally Congress Mukt Bharat. GOI should defend as per the law or Vienna Convention but not make a plea. OTOH, now we know Modi Visa issue is solved as no Indian leader will be making official visit for the next decade or so. DK's scarifice will appreciated like that of Khemka. People who habitually shit on you are not necessarily enemy.

member_22733
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 20 Dec 2013 23:12

OT: and the last from me on this tangent.
Dipanker ji,
You and hulaku were busy derailing the thread even after repeated requests for reading the last 20 pages (its a bit of a hard work but worth it). We keep going around in circles here. There is no new information/value by being in an echo chamber with big horn, you will only go deaf.

Your POV is valid, in another context. The context of this entire thread is about India as a single unit, against another entity. United we stand divided we fall. Is that so hard to grasp?

habal
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 20 Dec 2013 23:14

What you see in India from politicians is just posturing. It seems only IFS/babu lobby is hell bent on striking back, but the politicians are letting them down by going soft and assisting Philip Richard's escape, the politicians are trying to posture themselves as the saviors of US honor, just like Brajesh Mishra, an ex-babu, did with Rabinder Singh. Again it was the IFS that prevented the Bangladesh spring from taking off, just as the logjam in Siachin and SIr Creek stuff. So the Americans are hitting back at them and have acquiesced help from the Army Chief, NSA & various political leaders to stay quite and not give in to the babus beyond a point. I think the Govt of India by not taking reciprocative action against US diplomats is playing into the hands of US.

I think this is a clear case of US State Dept hitting back at the IFS lobby for failures in pivot/Siachin/Sir Creek/Afghanistan plans. Sangeeta Richard seems to be a compromised asset who is acting upon instructions of some diplomat who was posted in India but is now high up in the State Dept. She just happened to be the convenient face at the right time to execute this insult at India.

If the politicians were together with the babus, we would have seen a situation where India 'hunkers down' and battens down the hatches and prepares for a full scale assault against US interests which does not seem to be coming for 4 days now. Firstly the strike would be directed against western media in India and CIA assets and secondly a surprise signal to Iran or Russia immidiately would have proven to the US beyond doubt on what India's intentions going forward were.

That nothing of that sort has yet happened, only means that the the US is playing around with the compromised sections of Indian polity in the hope and expectation that they can get away with a hit job on the IFS. Now if a key US CIA handler like Headley could plan and implement 26/11 in what definitely was intended to be shock & awe and they could exfiltrate their asset safely back into their custody, they now feel emboldened enough to do a hit job on the IFS, since they have compromised large sections of the polity. This was a result of their long term operation. And has been in planning right from Indira's death to Rajiv's assasination and J. N. Dixit's untimely death. They now positively believe that there is no power in the the Indian political system to retaliate effectively and thus they have gained in confidence to carry out this latest act.

Prem Kumar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 20 Dec 2013 23:15

NaMo should go ballistic on the UPA for signing Hercules deal days after an Indian woman diplomat was subject to custodial rape in a US jail


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