India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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SSridhar
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 31 Dec 2013 13:24

If this was overzealousness on the part of low-level officers, this case would not have been allowed to go this far. It would have been sorted out before X'mas holidays. It is a well-calculated move on the part of GotUS. The motive though, is still mysterious, at least to me.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Dec 2013 13:49

>> SR offered to drop legal proceedings for 10k but not so bright DK tried to file a case of blackmail and extortion.

why did she deserve the 10K ? was she abused or mistreated or not given what was in the contract ?
what is the basis of that figure and not 20k or 30K?

it just looks like she needed living expenses to carry on her get-GC plan and supplement whatever aid was being provided by her coaching NGO.

nuclear engineering - germany is phasing out all of its plants in a time bound manner and japan's future on that line looks uncertain. they could recruit students from these places. france & sweden also have big nuclear power sectors and could provide surplus. they dont need to bug india for that.

if all else fails there is always cheen and TSP those all-weather fliends.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_28369 » 31 Dec 2013 14:02

Singha wrote:>> SR offered to drop legal proceedings for 10k but not so bright DK tried to file a case of blackmail and extortion.

why did she deserve the 10K ? was she abused or mistreated or not given what was in the contract ?
what is the basis of that figure and not 20k or 30K?

it just looks like she needed living expenses to carry on her get-GC plan and supplement whatever aid was being provided by her coaching NGO.


I am not saying the maid demand is correct - maybe it is maybe it is not. but how is that black mail or extortion. The only thing the maid is "threatening" is to go to justice not kidnap or kill anyone.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Dec 2013 14:04

If you dont deserve any money from the employer whom you abandoned without notice one fine day, but show up 6 months later and threaten to go to court (with a case) if the employer does not pay you 10k - is that not extortion? her going AWOL had already been informed to the GOTUS but probably efforts to trace her with help of her husband was stonewalled. to help her keep under cover, the husband even filed a missing persons case briefly in delhi but later withdrew it saying she was ok.

10k$ is not pocket change.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 31 Dec 2013 14:06

Case against DK on firm footing: US - ToI
Making it clear that visa fraud charges against Khobragade will not be dropped, US sources here said, "The strength of the fraud in the case is very strong."

Sources also added that Khobragade's domestic help Sangeeta's family was evacuated to the US because the justice department was compelled to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families were safe and secure while cases were pending.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 31 Dec 2013 14:09

SSridhar wrote:If this was overzealousness on the part of low-level officers, this case would not have been allowed to go this far. It would have been sorted out before X'mas holidays. It is a well-calculated move on the part of GotUS. The motive though, is still mysterious, at least to me.

Could it be to please TSP in the context of US pullout from Af-pak? For this to be true, the State Dept should have anticipated the Indian reaction.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby amit » 31 Dec 2013 14:17

adhkiran wrote:
amit wrote:
JEM,

It's almost certain that they gamed it. Look at the time line. SR went missing in June. There was an extortion attempt by a freelance lawyer hired by SR. The Indian govt reacted and then revoked her passport and initiated a court case in India and then informed SD..


When has an offer for out of court settlement became an extortion attempt. i read about it too and was puzzled by reaction of Indian govt characterizing it as blackmail. SR offered to drop legal proceedings for 10k but not so bright DK tried to file a case of blackmail and extortion.


I've been reading your posts. Being a long time BRFite I knew your agenda would come out sooner or later.

You have already decided that DK was/is guilty even before the court case. And that is why she should have taken an out of court settlement?

Have you noted DK had been saying all along that she has committed no crime. And yes please spare us the bull shit about both being Indian and all such sentimental stuff. SR lost that sympathy the moment she colluded with SD to spirit away her husband and children. Unless proven otherwise this is just a sham to get a green card by destroying the career and life (DK's husband is American) of a promising Indian official.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby amit » 31 Dec 2013 14:26

SSridhar wrote:Case against DK on firm footing: US - ToI
Making it clear that visa fraud charges against Khobragade will not be dropped, US sources here said, "The strength of the fraud in the case is very strong."

Sources also added that Khobragade's domestic help Sangeeta's family was evacuated to the US because the justice department was compelled to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families were safe and secure while cases were pending.



Sridhar I think this could be last ditch bluster by SD to see if the Indians blink and go for Ayn out of court settlement. The effort is to see who blinks first.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 31 Dec 2013 14:46

Cui Bono: in one word, Pakistan.

This entire affair is the handiwork of pro Pakistan SD officials.

How could Nancy Powell (36 years foreign service experience) allow this to happen, unless she wanted it to happen for some reason.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby prashanth » 31 Dec 2013 14:49

SS Ji, agreed. We can't support pak. But at the same time, we cannot rejoice over Davis incident. Last time one 'David' visited Mumbai and we know what happened. As you have rightly mentioned, existence of davis type figures in the subcontinent is a cause of worry for all countries in the region.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 31 Dec 2013 15:14

It is rumoured BD elections, Afghan agreement caused serious difforences. But I think khan is unruly now as Obama is an idiotic fellow with no vision and administration hasn generally gone to dogs. Ngo types rule most of the things now. It is quit possible khan never expected us to show guts as we never did that before to serious breach by khan.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RKumar » 31 Dec 2013 15:32

How the fuc* they can evacuate Indian national from India?
Will they evacuate other Indian families if someone find a claim against US firm?
What sort of human rights they fighting for?

At any rate. no matter what is the real reason, which we might never know or at least for couple of decades. One thing is clear, we can't trust USA in our security calculus. India must not buy Apache, Anti Tank Missiles and light artillery guns from US.

As we don't have anything similar to Chinook in development so that can be an exception.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 31 Dec 2013 16:03

eklavya wrote:Cui Bono: in one word, Pakistan.

This entire affair is the handiwork of pro Pakistan SD officials.

How could Nancy Powell (36 years foreign service experience) allow this to happen, unless she wanted it to happen for some reason.

And Kerry is the biggest one. I said the same thing earlier. The SD has always been inherently pro-pakistan. Their problem was that not all sec-states shared their love for pakis. They found a kindred spirit in Kerry however and once he took charge, it was only a matter of time. They saw a chance to sabotage the whole relationship and took it. And they even found a way (Bharara) to ostensibly keep their hands clean.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 31 Dec 2013 16:34

eklavya wrote:How could Nancy Powell (36 years foreign service experience) allow this to happen, unless she wanted it to happen for some reason.

She was the earlier Ambassador to TSP. But, I still do not get it. Certainly, TSP cannot take US to the point where diplomatic relations are frayed between it and India.

We have never experienced such a dramatic downside turn in our relationship with the US even at the height of their antipathy with us. Not during the days when n-fuel supply was threatened to be cut off, not in the Nixonian 1971, not during the reign of the evil Robin Raphael, not in 1998. So, what is driving the US to the point where it says that the case would go on after having seen the reaction from India and it does not even involve any serious issue ?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 31 Dec 2013 16:48

SS
Let's objectively see who benefits in India. Please let us first see in our own backyard. I don't want to start a flamewar or witch hunt here but I want to rule out vibishana.
Extreme Left: CPM type
Moderately Left: AAP, Congress types
Moderately Right: BJP types
Extreme Right: RSS, Bajrangdal types

Who among the four benefits by a totalled US-India bilateral relationship.
We can then dig further.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Dec 2013 16:52

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

Maybe AmirKhan is playing 11-dimensional chess. Maybe it is a colossal screw-up, because of incompetence and only lip-service regard for India.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 31 Dec 2013 16:54

SSridhar sir,

Once our officer is UN accredited, the case against her has to stop anyway. Not withdrawn, but stopped. Now that they have charged her, its become an H&D issue for the SD, especially if Kerry and Powell were in the loop all along. If they are prepared to eat humble pie (which will be the true test of the partnership), they should just restore the status quo ante i.e. no charges.

The bigger issue is, and leaving legalities and the manner in which our officer was maltreated to one side, is how can you even commence criminal legal proceedings against an officer of a friendly country? You simply don't treat an official from a 'friendly' country in this way. The wise path would have been to simply declare DK a persona non grata and be done with it.

Knowing the way bureaucracies work, it is simply not possible for the maid's kin to have received tickets and visa from the US embassy two days before our officer's arrest without Nancy Powell having full information about the case, including the fact that our officer would shortly be arrested, and therefore the urgency to get the maid's kin out of India and into the US.

The maid would not have cooperated with the US authorities if her husband and children were still in India. So, for the SD to proceed with their case and to have the key witness cooperating with them, they had to get the husband and kids into the US.

Nancy Powell must have been fully briefed on this matter. Otherwise no embassy official can just go and spend Rs.100,000 on a ticket, etc.

This is no low level goof up. The arrest of DK and the flight from India of the maid's family has happened with the full knowledge and planning of very senior US officials.

The US has scored a huge hit on its own foot through this action. In diplomacy terms, they have quite royally effed it up.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Dec 2013 17:08

Question to posters:

What would your reaction be if the court throws out the case on the grounds of immunity without ruling on the issue of the charge and no apology from DoS?

Win/win?
Lose?
?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 31 Dec 2013 17:13

Lose for India.
Win for US
A safety exit for both parties

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby amit » 31 Dec 2013 17:18

In a way the SD statement today means they have called India's bluff. The Babu's here will have to take it a step further, if they want to taken seriously by Amir Khan in this issue. Note the Khan Amby's statement expressing "regret" after so many days is the carrot to the SD's stick. It's becoming a game of brinkmanship to see who blinks first. Given India's reputation of weakness SD mandarins are confident that it will be India.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 31 Dec 2013 17:31

Cosmo, once DK has diplomatic immunity, the court proceedings cannot continue. But the case will always be hanging over DK's head, and she will not be able to return to the US (unless she feels her case is strong, and fights the good fight in court).

Sir, both the US and India are potential losers from this ridiculous case. The potential winners are countries that would like the improvement in the relationship between India and the US to be arrested / reversed.

The maid has also got what she wanted: an opportunity to work in the US, and her family besides her! Once DK had started proceedings against her, she anyway could not return to India without facing arrest, etc.

Once emotions have settled down, there is a big repair job to be done on India-US relations. We may have to wait until Kerry and Powell are done with their respective stints. In the meantime, the US has lost a lot of its influence in New Delhi, and to be quite honest with ourselves, India never had much influence in DC anyway. But we still need to make sure that the India-US military relationship and the India-Israel military relationship (AWACS, etc.) are not disrupted.

The next big diplomatic issue / banana skin may well be how the US wishes to treat Shri Narendra Modi, if he becomes PM of India after the general elections.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svenkat » 31 Dec 2013 17:33

amit wrote: The Babu's here will have to take it a step further, if they want to taken seriously by Amir Khan in this issue.


Its no longer in the babus hands.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 31 Dec 2013 17:38

eklavya wrote:Cosmo, once DK has diplomatic immunity, the court proceedings cannot continue. But the case will always be hanging over DK's head, and she will not be able to return to the US (unless she feels her case is strong, and fights the good fight in court).

Sir, both the US and India are potential losers from this ridiculous case. The potential winners are countries that would like the improvement in the relationship between India and the US to be arrested / reversed.

The maid has also got what she wanted: an opportunity to work in the US, and her family besides her! Once DK had started proceedings against her, she anyway could not return to India without facing arrest, etc.

Once emotions have settled down, there is a big repair job to be done on India-US relations. We may have to wait until Kerry and Powell are done with their respective stints. In the meantime, the US has lost a lot of its influence in New Delhi, and to be quite honest with ourselves, India never had much influence in DC anyway. But we still need to make sure that the India-US military relationship and the India-Israel military relationship (AWACS, etc.) are not disrupted.

The next big diplomatic issue / banana skin may well be how the US wishes to treat Shri Narendra Modi, if he becomes PM of India after the general elections.



I don't think that the SD or even the GOTUS has any rigid and official stand on Modi.

It is various sidey and fundoo EJ and malsi organisations in the US and our own desi and videsi coconuts ( brown on the outside and white on the inside!! ) that have it in for Modi.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 31 Dec 2013 17:43

This is a hijack. I want to know the identity of hijacker. Why is it so difficult unless hijackers only want to crash into tall structures.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 31 Dec 2013 18:02

Nancy Powell statement:

Ambassador Nancy J. Powell wishes India a Happy New Year

Alongside these impressive developments, this forward movement has been jolted by very different reactions to issues involving one of your consular officers and her domestic worker. I join Secretary Kerry in expressing our regret for the circumstances of the consular officer’s arrest, but we believe that we can look forward to continuing to expand our bilateral relations.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FY3Q0J4xJL ... Y3Q0J4xJLg

They are only expressing "regret" (which is short of an apology) for the way in which DK was maltreated, not for launching criminal proceedings against our officer (which, of course, happened with Kerry and Powell's sign-off), nor for the ticket and visa the US embassy in India granted to the maid's husband and kids (which happened with Powell's sign-off).

It will probably be for the best if Powell is given another job soon; as the most senior US government official 'on the ground' in New Delhi, it was her responsibility and well within her powers to make sure that things did not reach this sorry stage.
Last edited by eklavya on 31 Dec 2013 18:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 31 Dec 2013 18:03

Don't want DK issue to negatively impact India-US relationship - Business Line

The United States does not want the arrest of senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade to negatively impact its important bilateral relationship with the country, a top US administration official has said.

“We don’t want this to negatively impact our relationship, that we work on a broad range of issues together, our bilateral relationship is too important. And we’ve said repeatedly that we don’t want it,” State Department Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf told reporters at her daily news conference yesterday.

Harf was responding to questions about the impact on India-US relationship the arrest of an Indian diplomat has had.

Khobragade, 39, was arrested on December 12 on charges of making false declarations in a visa application for her maid Sangeeta Richard. She was released on a $250,000 bond.

Subsequent revelations that she was strip searched and held in jail with drug addicts and criminals triggered a row between the two sides.

“We had some good conversations with our Indian counterparts. And that’s why what we’re doing right now is letting that process play itself out and focusing from our end on moving the relationship forward, on the ground and here as well,” Harf said.

The Indian Government has transferred Khobragade to the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations, with the view that this would give her the necessary diplomatic immunity from arrest.

Harf said the State Department is still reviewing the application for her transfer and issue the necessary documents for full diplomatic immunity.

“We have received the paperwork from the United Nations. It is currently under review, and I don’t have anything further for you on that except that we’re taking a look at it, and when we have something more, we’re happy to share it,” she said.


The State Department spokesperson, refuted reports coming in the Indian media that the US Embassy is paying less wages or violating any local law in the country.

“Our standard practice — and I have no reason to believe that’s not the case here — is to pay folks that work for us in countries around the world in conjunction with local law, with local practice,” she said.

“I’m happy to look into those specific reports...It’s my understanding that at a minimum, it comports with local law and local practice. But that doesn’t mean that it’s not beyond that. So I’m happy to check and see what our practice is across the board,” she added.


“I have no reason to believe that our folks have done anything wrong on that,” Harf added.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vishvak » 31 Dec 2013 18:05

Isn't it strange how propaganda of new York network is silent suddenly when official recommendations for USA diplomats mention wages below par. For decades EJ propaganda is berating yindoos and suddenly are silent when diplomats of supwepower USA seem to rely on all-in-one local maids and pay even less than much berated heathens pagaans nomads jungle people of India. May be this is going on for decades and still there is silence for decades. Its the same for the maid. The propaganda in USA is silent on how diplomat whose husband is USA citizen, and so are the children, is trapped in rather barbaric fashion while propaganda goes on about yindoos this and yindoos that. Such friendly relationship and cover of selective propaganda only doing their bit - have to be in shock and awe only.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 31 Dec 2013 18:07

eklavya wrote:. . . They are only expressing "regret" (which is short of an apology) for the way in which DK was maltreated, . . . .

ekalavya, I do not even believe that she is expressing 'regret' for the maltreatment of DK. This is a general ambiguous statement. Are the US ambassadors in India in the habit of wishing Indians on New Year's eve ?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 31 Dec 2013 18:17

SS, I think this statement is essentially an admission from the US government that their actions have unnecessarily damaged the relationship between our countries.

Frankly, it was good of Nancy Powell to issue a renewed statement of "regret", even if it is not everything that we want.

Now that the matter is "sub judice", I wonder if the US government even has an option to withdraw the case, without massive loss of H&D at the very least (it may even mean that Kerry's career is holed below the waterline).

They will give DK diplomatic status, and then the matter will basically go away.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 31 Dec 2013 18:35

NancyPowell wrote:I join Secretary Kerry in expressing our regret for the circumstances of the consular officer’s arrest, but we believe that we can look forward to continuing to expand our bilateral relations.

Golf Foxtrot Yankee
(Go F*ck Yourselves)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 31 Dec 2013 18:39

Let us wait till 13th Jan 2014, the day the court proceedings move ahead. If there is no resolution till then to our satisfaction, the same courtesies should be extend to one US consular lady official along with the standard procedure followed by a regret of course. If we have to act, we should leave the 377 sword hanging for now and follow up on salary disparity and tax evasion.

GOI (represented by the cursed) is on record in the parliament on the expected resolution and if it falls short and no reciprocal courtesies are extended, the discourse in India will move into the political domain. I hope it does not come to that for the sake of our diplomat but if things do go that far, I think NM will start targeting CON on this.

So perhaps 15 days more for this to be either resolved or it becoming a big political issue in India. If apology/dropping of case does not happen and NM wants to make an issue out of this, CON and the US can do nothing about it.

Added Later: In any case, if an Indian consular officer can be subjected to so called courtesies followed by standard procedure in US, these same courtesies and standard procedure can be extended to US consular officer in India anytime in the future even if the present GOI chooses not to reciprocate at the present time.

If the case in US is not withdrawn, the precedence will be established and the door will have been opened for any future GOI with enough balls.
Last edited by pankajs on 31 Dec 2013 18:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svenkat » 31 Dec 2013 18:56

Nanny Powell looks like long lost sister of Madam Jalebi.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 31 Dec 2013 19:30

Khobragade case: India awaits authorised US response, to pursue privilege issue
NEW DELHI: Ignoring assertions by unnamed US officials that the case against senior diplomat Devyani Khobragade will not be withdrawn, India today said it would continue to "seriously" pursue any misuse of diplomatic privileges by the US diplomats in India.

Dismissing reports from New York quoting US officials to say that they are going ahead with the indictment of Khobragade on charges of visa fraud, the Spokesperson in the External Affairs Ministry said in "pluralistic democracy" there were many voices but the government will respond to "designated channel" which was US State Department in this case.

He said the US State Department has conveyed that a process was on to look into the entire arrest incident and India was "awaiting for an authorised response" and asserted that there was a "reflection of regret" which was conveyed both by US Secretary of State John Kerry and the State Department.

Asked about delay in submission of details by the US Embassy about the Indian staff employed by its missions and individual US diplomats, he said, the government was still awaiting details required the Embassy, which has requested some more time in view of the holiday season.

"We are processing lot of information and variety of thoughts and make no mistake, we are serious about processing and pursuing this matter," he said.

India's demand for these submissions was made in the wake of the arrest and strip-search of Khobragade, the 39-year-old 1999-batch IFS officer, on December 12 on the charges of underpaying her maid.

Meanwhile, the ministry was also investigating the "leads" it has got on the misuse of diplomatic privilege in signing-off the tax exemption for the air ticket purchased to "evacuate" from here to New York the family of Khobragade's absconding maid Sangeeta Richard.

I am sure NM is keenly waiting US/GOI response .. US response will be clear by 13th Jan and I believe it will be impossible to withdraw the case beyond this date. Continuance of the case beyond this date will give him a stick to beat CON on one of its assertions in the parliament.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 31 Dec 2013 19:37

svenkat wrote:Nanny Powell looks like long lost sister of Madam Jalebi.


Twins actually. Got separated i the Dumbh mela aeons ago...

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 31 Dec 2013 19:40

Let's not forget that India still needs the US too. The Mangalyaan mission is dependent on the US deep space network and India will need it for the next mission as well. The C-17 and C-130J are simply the best and most efficient aircraft in its class and both Boeing and LM can deliver at cost and ahead of schedule. Don't forget the Indian Navy's P-8i that were delivered which are world class naval surveillance aircraft. India needs to purchase a few hundred more GE-404 and Ge-414 engines and have several squadrons of the Tejas LCA to replace all of the Mig-21s and 27s. IMO, the French Rafale will never fly in IAF colors because of delays and simply the French can't produce it in quantity, nor do I see it being as reliable.

There does need to be reciprocity. No more duty free BX run by US missions in India, nor should there be any VVIP passes at airports or anywhere else. The barricades at the US embassy in Delhi will only go up if adjacent embassies do not object AND the public parking adjacent to the Indian embassy in Washington is removed.

BTW, Nancy Powell was ambassador at one time to TSP. She looks like a lesbian. Need to see if her "spouse" is violating Indian law.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2013 19:40

ramana wrote:SS, Sorry to say this but maybe it was one sided all along and India never acknowledged the signs of disarray once Ombaba took over.
By kowtowing too low MMS's India never saw the sneers on the visage.


I was going thru the KS tribute thread to glean some wisdom on the current situation.

I was struck that even KS went by the big picture moves of US need to engage India against China which BK repeats even today.

What if all this is fake as Acharya keeps saying?

What if vinsha kale vipariti buddhi is takinng over US elites.

There is no Monyihan like in the 1990s to tell them to cool it when Robin Raphael went on a rampage confident of Billary connections to avenge her pet peeves.


Actually KS himself and his shishyas went overboard with this entire partnership with khan business. He had a soft corner for khan thanks to his kith and kin succeeding there and became sentimental. I remember a western analyst once noting that PRC is willing to fight India down to the last Pakistani. Similarly, its no skin off the Khans nose if India and PRC slug it out. There are many sources of tech & economic growth beyond Khan alone - unfortunately KS & his entire generation grew up on a perspective shaped by their unique circumstances where west was the owner and provider of power & hence their perception went that way.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 31 Dec 2013 19:42

Mort Walker wrote:Let's not forget that India still needs the US too. The Mangalyaan mission is dependent on the US deep space network and India will need it for the next mission as well. The C-17 and C-130J are simply the best and most efficient aircraft in its class and both Boeing and LM can deliver at cost and ahead of schedule. Don't forget the Indian Navy's P-8i that were delivered which are world class naval surveillance aircraft. India needs to purchase a few hundred more GE-404 and Ge-414 engines and have several squadrons of the Tejas LCA to replace all of the Mig-21s and 27s. IMO, the French Rafale will never fly in IAF colors because of delays and simply the French can't produce it in quantity, nor do I see it being as reliablE


All of these could have had equivalents sourced from Russia or Europe, which even if not 100% as capable would have provided similar capabilities. Unfortunately, many of these deals seem to have been driven with a political flavor to them, as a quid pro quo for the nuke deal. This decision by the MMS Govt, is one which is going to be worth watching in terms of its impact, in years to come.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 31 Dec 2013 19:45

pankajs wrote:I am sure NM is keenly waiting US/GOI response .. US response will be clear by 13th Jan and I believe it will be impossible to withdraw the case beyond this date. Continuance of the case beyond this date will give him a stick to beat CON on one of its assertions in the parliament.


NM is keeping quiet. If the US decides to prosecute, the Indian middle class, those who came out in droves to support NM, will ask he take a tougher stand with the US. The US may have lost a lot of good will of the India middle class - those who can and will make a difference in the future.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 31 Dec 2013 19:47

Karan M wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Let's not forget that India still needs the US too. The Mangalyaan mission is dependent on the US deep space network and India will need it for the next mission as well. The C-17 and C-130J are simply the best and most efficient aircraft in its class and both Boeing and LM can deliver at cost and ahead of schedule. Don't forget the Indian Navy's P-8i that were delivered which are world class naval surveillance aircraft. India needs to purchase a few hundred more GE-404 and Ge-414 engines and have several squadrons of the Tejas LCA to replace all of the Mig-21s and 27s. IMO, the French Rafale will never fly in IAF colors because of delays and simply the French can't produce it in quantity, nor do I see it being as reliablE


All of these could have had equivalents sourced from Russia or Europe, which even if not 100% as capable would have provided similar capabilities. Unfortunately, many of these deals seem to have been driven with a political flavor to them, as a quid pro quo for the nuke deal. This decision by the MMS Govt, is one which is going to be worth watching in terms of its impact, in years to come.


I disagree. Russia and Europe don't have viable alternatives and some European countries are operators of the same US weapon systems. Let's leave this discussion for another forum.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 31 Dec 2013 19:50

Mort Walker wrote:
pankajs wrote:I am sure NM is keenly waiting US/GOI response .. US response will be clear by 13th Jan and I believe it will be impossible to withdraw the case beyond this date. Continuance of the case beyond this date will give him a stick to beat CON on one of its assertions in the parliament.


NM is keeping quiet. If the US decides to prosecute, the Indian middle class, those who came out in droves to support NM, will ask he take a tougher stand with the US. The US may have lost a lot of good will of the India middle class - those who can and will make a difference in the future.

The longer this incident is dragged, via a court case, the more it will become embedded in the memory of the current generation. US should have taken the easy way out right at the outset but that is just my opinion.


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