India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Mort Walker
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 05 Jan 2014 04:09

^^^The DoJ can drop the case if the DoS insists it is in the national interest of the US to do so. All that needs to be done is to have Kerry, or better yet Ombaba, make a phone call to Eric Holder. The DoJ can simply say that during Discovery there wasn't enough evidence for a successful prosecution. A matter of she said vs. she said.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Yayavar » 05 Jan 2014 04:15

Would that then nullify the claim under which the T3 (or whatever) visa was granted to Sangeeta and family?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Nandu » 05 Jan 2014 05:32

anmol, the scenes in the video being posted as DK's strip search is not the same scenes as the Hope Steffey video, though both being forced strip searches, they are similar.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 05 Jan 2014 06:49

X-Post from Bangladesh thread. Illustrates the concern US has for India's security :roll:

Bangladesh votes today, India decides to back Sheikh Hasina

...
While Hasina has promised dialogue with other parties after she returns to power, the problem is that many Western countries, particularly the US, have voiced concerns over such elections lacking legitimacy.

In fact, sources said, some US interlocutors have even indicated to Indian officials that Hasina could have accepted opposition demands and resigned for the sake of upholding democracy.

The Bangladeshi prime minister, however, did not want to leave a vacuum that may allow a third force to seize power and wanted to fulfill this constitutional requirement. She has indicated that her party is agreeable to holding elections again if that is the outcome of the dialogue with other parties after the polls.
...
The fear in New Delhi is that many countries like the US may go to the extent of not recognising the Hasina government, leading to a host of negative repercussions. In 1996, Khaleda Zia was in the same situation as Hasina and at that point, no major power had raised serious concerns. However, the Zia government fell because of a massive popular unrest.

It is learnt that in several meetings between South Block and US interlocutors — at one stage the US ambassador to Bangladesh came here for talks — the main point of difference has been over the right wing Jamaat-e-Islami, a BNP ally.

US officials, sources said, have been more positive about the Jamaat, even conveying that it had begun to emerge as a legitimate Islamic party. But for India, the Jamaat is a security issue and its radical elements constitute a serious terror threat to Bangladesh and India.


In fact, for the past month or so, Indian interlocutors have been in touch with Bangladesh National Party leader Khaleda Zia urging her to participate in the elections and even assuring full Indian support as long as she moved away from the Jamaat.
...
...
But it is Washington from where New Delhi is expecting retaliation as this issue figured prominently during Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh's first visit there. It is learnt that there was significant divergence of views, one which reflected the concerns being voiced by the US post in Dhaka.
...



US is giving scant regard to Indian security concerns wrt Bangladesh. One wonders what the "strategic relationship" is all about if you don't care for each others security!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 05 Jan 2014 07:04

Khobragade arrest revealed real issues that bedevil Indo-US ties

...
Angering officials who drive foreign policy imperatives doesn’t augur well for Indo-US ties which, by many accounts, have lost the traction they had during the George Bush presidency and even during President Barack Obama’s first term.

Former foreign secretary Nirupama Rao, whose term as the country’s ambassador to the US ended recently, was giving voice to the general view when she tweeted: “The much vaunted defining partnership between the two countries is so inconsequential that the US decided to treat the whole case (of Khobragade) as routine?” The incident has snowballed into an issue in poll-bound India with Khobragade’s Dalit identity adding another political dimension to the case.
...
...
However, differences over a host of issues has ensured that the relationship has begun to lose its sheen. Washington has found faults with India’s nuclear liability law, which it believes comes in the way of beginning nuclear commerce with India. Though defence deals are being signed periodically, the US complains that the defence ties do not measure up to the expectations of a strategic partnership. The country also nurses a grouse against India’s intellectual property regime. Indians find their strategic partner differing with them on key regional issues such as peace talks with the Taliban in Afghanistan and Washington’s over-enthusiastic role in Bangladesh.
...
...
Prime minister Manmohan Singh was the first state guest of President Obama after the latter took over as the US President. In a sign of how things have changed, when Indian Prime Minister was visiting US last September, the US suggested a brief meeting with the President of less than twenty minutes and Vice President Joe Biden hosting a working lunch for Singh. After pressure from New Delhi, President Obama hosted a working lunch for Singh.

“The attention may be on the episode involving the humiliation of the Indian diplomat, but the real issues bedeviling the US-India relations go beyond it”, says Brahma Chellany, strategic affairs expert. He adds, “The row will settle if the US stops taking India for granted and agrees to treat it as a strategic partner and not as a client.”
...

...
“This (the Devyani case) is not an ordinary incident. While an incident or a set of incidences shouldn’t hold a relationship to ransom, addressing this issue is very important, considering the public opinion it has generated,” says Hardeep Puri, India’s former permanent representative to the United Nations. Experts like Bhadrakumar feel that while the future of the relationship between the two countries does not hinge on this one incident, efforts should be made to ensure that “US actions, such as this one, which reminds one of the Cold War era, are not repeated”.
...
...


Begging for a lunch meeting with Obama to impress others, thats what India's PM has stooped to now! No wonder they take India for granted :roll:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 05 Jan 2014 08:07

Someone should ask the legitimacy of US Presidential Elections since 2000 when the issue was settled by US Supreme Court and not the people. And the dubuious practice of calling the results before the voters have voted in Ronald Reagan's elections.
How about dead men voting in John Kennedy's election in Chicago!

People in glass houses should not throw rocks at others or
Pot calling the kettle black!!!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 05 Jan 2014 08:44

putnanja wrote:Khobragade arrest revealed real issues that bedevil Indo-US ties

So why has the incident cast a shadow on India-US ties? Addressing a joint session of the Indian Parliament in December 2010, President Obama, the first US president to visit India in his first term in office, had said, “It is my firm belief that the relationship between the United States and India — bound by our shared interests and our shared values — will be one of the defining partnerships of the 21st century”.

...


Once again, I speak as someone who has a vast experence in US, but the above quote (used car salesman talk) explains Indian anger and naivety at the same time. India expected to be treated like a real partner, and thats the naivety.

I think it was the brilliant Brahma Chellaney who said aeons ago that the India TSP equal equal has morphed from explicit equal equal to equal equal on parallel planes. Thus, US gives non-NATO all-lie status and arms to TSP, and this useless nuke deal and above used car salesman talk to India, and the elites in both India & TSP both lapped up that nonsense and unrealistic expectations set it.

Call me paranoid, call me conspiratorial, but I would watch for today's GSLV launch. US is not mighty thrilled at India mastering cryogenic technology. The guys at Langley and their vast network of spies, terrorist assets (from both within India and TSP) etc must be working overtime. Thats what India needs to watch for more than the "strategic partners" rubbish.
Last edited by CRamS on 05 Jan 2014 09:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 05 Jan 2014 08:48

ramana sir, the US is a key supporter of "democracy with a Sunni (preferably Wahabbi) (Note: not be confused with wasabi) characteristics" which is what the Jamaat in Bangladesh represents. Here is Shri Barrack Obama paying his respects to the most legitimate Sunni democrat-in-chief:

Image

And, here is Shri Dubya Bush also providing strong support for "democracy with wasabi characteristics" (did I get it wrong?):

Image

Nuff said, back to the square to watch the latest episode of stoning ....

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 05 Jan 2014 08:51

Guys, what are US interests in backing Jamaat in Bangladesh. I am behind the curve on this one. Is because like TSP pigLeTs, they are "good terrorists" from US PoV?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 05 Jan 2014 08:56

CRamS wrote:Guys, what are US interests in backing Jamaat in Bangladesh. I am behind the curve on this one. Is because like TSP pigLeTs, they are "good terrorists" from US PoV?

Total Sunni backing in the norther hemishpere.
THis will result in shia being put down along with Hindus and non muslims in the entire region. This clever social engineering is to keep the Sunni political leadership alive since the birth of the Muslim League in 1905 in Bangladesh. This is the long standing relationship between the Anglo British and Indian Sunni for more than 100 years

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby eklavya » 05 Jan 2014 09:11

Khaleda Zia is not fighting the elections basically because she knows that she will lose. The US is continuing to make statements doubting the legitimacy of the elections:

Bangladesh Ruling Party Poised to Cruise as Opposition Boycotts Poll
"We're disappointed that the major political parties have not yet reached a consensus on a way to hold free, fair, and credible elections," Marie Harf, a U.S. State Department spokeswoman told a briefing on Thursday in Washington.


Continued Concerns on Bangladesh Elections
Continued Concerns on Bangladesh Elections
Press Statement
Jen Psaki
Department Spokesperson
Washington, DC
December 22, 2013

The United States believes Bangladesh has an opportunity to demonstrate its commitment to democracy by organizing free and fair elections that are credible in the eyes of the Bangladeshi people.

The United States notes with disappointment, however, that the major political parties have not yet reached consensus on a way to achieve such elections, since more than half of the parliamentary seats are uncontested for the January 5 polls. In this context, the United States will not deploy observers for these elections. We remain prepared to reengage our observation efforts at a later time in a more conducive environment.

The United States urges the major parties to continue their dialogue and redouble their efforts to find a solution worthy of the people of Bangladesh.

The people of Bangladesh deserve the opportunity to elect their national representatives in a climate free of violence and intimidation. The nation’s political leadership – and those who aspire to lead – must ensure law and order and refrain from supporting violence, inflammatory rhetoric, and intimidation. The United States encourages all political parties and Bangladeshi citizens to participate peacefully in the political process. Violence is not acceptable because it subverts the democratic process.

The United States believes all parties and Bangladeshi citizens have the right to freely and peacefully express their views. The government is responsible to provide space for such activity; equally, the opposition is responsible to use such space in a peaceful manner.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 05 Jan 2014 09:24

CRamS
After the Beirut attack on Iranian embassy masterminded by Prince Bandar, the entire Sunni Shia conflict is wide open. Bangladesh is just another front for CIA sponsored program to divide the Islamic world along the Shia Sunni lines. Stupid Arabs never get that simple funda. Americans will destroy Arabs the moment they feel it suits them.India for all its naivete knows American intentions and does not want that Shia Sunni conflict close to our borders as it carries a high risk of spillover into India which has huge Shia population.India has its head out of sand at least in Bangladesh.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 Jan 2014 09:32

Indian diplomacy hostage to anti-piracy

BY RSN SINGH

In February 2012, Italian marines aboard an oil tanker MT Enrica Lexie, traveling from Singapore to Egypt, fired on a Indian fishing trawler St Antony, approximately 21 nm off the coast of Kerala, mistaking it as a vessel engaged in piracy. Two Indian fishermen Ajesh Binki and Valentine aka Gelastine were killed. The Italian defence ministry portrayed it as a successful anti-piracy operation. The Italian vessel had a crew of 34, which included 19 Indians. The two marines of the Italian Navy, Massi Milano Latoree and Salvatore Girone responsible for killing the fisherman were taken into custody. What followed was unprecedented bitterness and acrimony between India and Italy. No responsible authority in India explained to the people the Italian highhandedness in proper geopolitical and maritime perspective. Again on October 12, 2013 an American vessel MV Seaman Guard Ohio, belonging to the US firm AdvanFort, was apprehended by the Indian Coast Guard off Tamil Nadu Coast for unauthorized presence in India’s territorial waters. The crew and guard of the American vessel, which included Indians, were taken into custody. Thus in a matter of 20 months, two major incidents off the Western Coast of India have taken place, both triggering enormous diplomatic bad blood.

Some quarters attribute that the incident involving the American vessel in October 2013 has symbiotic linkage with the issue of maltreatment of the Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade. There are suggestions that the Devyani issue was contrived to pressurize India into releasing the crew and guards of MV Seaman Guard Ohio. The vicissitudes of the Devyani story have indeed fluctuated with India’s position on the release of the personnel onboard the American vessel. Finally on 26 December 2013 the said personnel comprising 22 foreigners and 12 Indians were granted bail (stayed by higher court). Concurrently the American rhetoric on the Devyani issue could be seen to undergo a sea-change. Suddenly Devyani the diplomat, from a ‘perpetrator of human right abuses’, became a ‘victim of misunderstanding’.

The change in posturing on part of the US was too stark to go unnoticed. Nevertheless, a section of our media, who were seen to be totally in sync with the US, did not report the news of the grant of bail to the personnel belonging to the American vessel.

These two incidents which caused massive diplomatic upheavals were actually triggered by an illogical and provocative maritime framework decided by the international community to prevent piracy. Besides these two incidents, many have gone unrecorded and unreported, in fact it has become an endemic feature. It is therefore imperative to comprehend the larger dynamics behind these incidents.

The case of the American vessel acquired gravity as it was not only being replenished with 1600 liters of high speed diesel by an Indian fishing trawler inside India’s territorial waters, but also because its 35 members (10 crew and 25 security guards), in contravention of law, carried 35 assault rifles and 5680 rounds of ammunition. The crew and the guards were of various nationalities, i.e. Estonians, British, Ukrainian and Indian. All the 35 members were arrested for illegally carrying arms in India’s water and lodged at Palayamkottai Central Jail in Tamil Nadu. Even though there was no US citizen on the vessel, three officials from the US Consulate General at Chennai visited them the very next day. The US authorities maintained that the vessel was engaged in anti-piracy operations for protection of American merchant vessels, and were well beyond the Indian maritime territorial limit of 12 nm.

The crew members and the guards of the vessel, the US authorities emphasized, were specialists in anti-piracy operations and had honourable antecedents, having served in the armed forces and security establishments of their respective countries. The Indian authorities have been steadfast on their stand that they would be tried as per the ‘law of the land’. The bitterness between the US and India over the issue only ratcheted in the subsequent days and reached the ‘snapping point’ in the first week of December 2013. Addressing a press conference on the Navy Day 3rd December the Indian Naval Chief Admiral DK Joshi warned: “Unregulated floating armouries carrying combatants of certain countries are a matter of concern and can have serious security implications for the including infiltration of terrorists that can lead to 26/11 type attacks.”

The Admiral also made an impassioned plea for “reversal” of high risk areas for merchant ships plying in the piracy prone zones. Two years back the longitude marking off high risk areas for piracy was moved from 65 degrees to 78 degrees in the Arabian Sea by the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) and the Contact Group on Piracy off the Coast of Somalia (CGPCS) constituted in 2009 following a UN resolution. The new longitude, although away from India’s territorial waters limit of 12 nautical miles, is dangerously close to the Indian coast. Ships in order to be safe from piracy tend to hug the Indian coast from Mangalore to Kanyakumari. The Enrica Lexie incident too was primarily because of the eastward advancement of the high risk longitude.

The change in the longitude has made fishing activities by Indian fishermen extremely contentious and dangerous because of intense international shipping activity close to the Indian coast. Indian maritime authorities like the Coast Guard have been lamenting that the shift in the longitude was unwarranted and based on exaggerated threat. From the perspective of overall maritime security of India, with the shift in ‘high risk area’ by the west dominated IMO, the threat is pernicious, causing endemic hostile incidents, including two major ones as mentioned. The protestation of the Indian Naval Chief is therefore more than apposite. No country with self-respect will tolerate such an international arrangement which impinges on its everyday legitimate maritime activity and is pregnant with terrorist misuse and hostilities.

It is under these circumstances that the US vessel MV Sea Guard Ohio was apprehended by the Indian Coast Guard. Notwithstanding the US pressure, Indian authorities would be amiss if they did not treat and investigate the vessel and its crew and guards as floating armouries.

It is our this very application of the ‘law of the land’ that disconcerted the Italians and now the Americans. It could also be the reason for incarceration of Captain Sunil James in Togo, an erstwhile French colony.

When the American vessel MV Seaman Guard Ohio with arms and ammunition was apprehended, there were any numbers of possibilities being bandied in India with regards to its illegal presence in Indian waters, ranging from — attack on Kudankulam Nuclear Plant — to armed assistance to Maoists — to intervention in Maldives. Such speculations were rife because the maritime authorities in India did not share with the people the simple reasons and details that had engendered these incidents. If the Indian establishment persists with its caginess there could be far more sinister and developments at sea causing animosity with other countries. The root to the solution lies in the rescission of the new high risk longitude in the Arabian Sea.

(RSN Singh is a former military intelligence officer who later served in the Research & Analysis Wing.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 05 Jan 2014 09:35

Someone said 1971 earlier. The government of Bangladesh is putting all the war criminals from 1971 on trial. Some US allies are likely going to be convicted, perhaps some Americans as well. One person who is probably a British citizen has been sentenced to death.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Kati » 05 Jan 2014 10:31

Amir Khan is under pressure from Saudis and Kuwaitis to give Jamaat legitimacy.
That is the crux of the matter.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 05 Jan 2014 10:47

Kati wrote:Amir Khan is under pressure from Saudis and Kuwaitis to give Jamaat legitimacy.
That is the crux of the matter.
And yet their pressure over Iran didn't work ? I don't think the the Gulf sunni sheikhdoms are big for the Jamaat in BD of all places. Something else must be afoot.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 05 Jan 2014 11:03

CRamS wrote:Guys, what are US interests in backing Jamaat in Bangladesh. I am behind the curve on this one. Is because like TSP pigLeTs, they are "good terrorists" from US PoV?

Sunni Islamism angle.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 05 Jan 2014 11:08

CRamS wrote:Guys, what are US interests in backing Jamaat in Bangladesh. I am behind the curve on this one. Is because like TSP pigLeTs, they are "good terrorists" from US PoV?


By keeping India off-balance, they will further US goals.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 05 Jan 2014 12:27

I should say India is sending the right message to western world after we canceled AugustaWesland deal for VIP choppers. This was a fallout of the Italian marines terrorism inside Indian waters. Augusta Westland has Italian Government stake. India sent a message to the Italian government in a way where it hurts most.
I think India can repeat it by canceling a major defense deal with US just before elections. The ensuing confusion will be enough to screw GOTUS. Nancy Powel will lose her job.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 05 Jan 2014 13:42

Preet Bharara’s views reflect disdain for Indian courts, Devyani’s father says
MUMBAI: Senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade's father submitted before the Delhi high court that US state attorney Preet Bharara's recent statements amount to interference with judicial proceedings pending in India and reflect his disdain for Indian court orders.

"In fact, the entire proceedings initiated against Devyani in the US fly in the face of a Delhi high court order of September 20," said Uttam Khobragade, Devyani's father, a former bureaucrat. Last September, Delhi high court had restrained Devyani's maid, Sangeeta Richards, and her husband Philip from initiating any action connected with her employment with the diplomat in any court or forum outside India. The court passed the order ex-parte, on a suit filed by Devyani.

<snip>

"Bharara's acknowledgment in media reports that a legal process was started in India to 'silence her (the domestic help) and attempts were made to compel her to return to India' clearly reflects his contemptuous views on the whole judicial system of India and amounts to scandalizing and lowering the authority of the court," said Khobragade. He cited recent media reports where Bharara said Sangeeta's husband and children were "evacuated" to the US as they were "reportedly... confronted in numerous ways regarding this case".

"The action of US state attorney and all such officers involved in the decision-making process of taking Philip Richard to the US during the pendency of proceedings (in India) clearly reflects their disrespect, disdain and disregard of orders passed by this court," said Khobragade.

On December 13, Delhi HC had observed that Philip did not appear before it despite being served a notice in Devyani's suit. The court ordered fresh summons to be issued to Sangeeta.


Khobragade said during pendency of the case in India, US initiated action and arrested Devyani on a complaint filed by Sangeeta over her remuneration as an India-based domestic assistant (IBDA). Sangeeta, employed since November 2012, had disappeared from Devyani's New York home last June.

Devyani's writ in the HC said Philip informed her only after repeated requests that Sangeeta had contacted him on June 28, but did not disclose the number she had called him from. She said she had received a call from a woman claiming to be Sangeeta's lawyer who said she had been "abused and made to work 19 hours". Devyani's case was that her maid wanted to extort money from her.

Sangeeta's husband moved Delhi HC first against Devyani with allegations of abuse and harassment. Delhi HC dismissed his plea last July and Devyani filed her suit in August where she sought and got orders to prevent her maid from invoking foreign court jurisdiction hence.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 05 Jan 2014 13:48

Devyani case: India mulling to shut American Embassy Club
In a move that will convey India's strong displeasure to Washington, the government is considering a proposal to shut the American Community Support Association (ACSA), which is the American embassy club in New Delhi, as part of measures to put pressure on the US in the Devyani case.

Highly placed sources told Mail Today that a deadline of 10 days will be given to the US which will also mean that it now has to decide if it will issue a G1 visa giving immunity to Khobragade or face more Indian action to bring diplomatic protocol strictly at par with other countries. The US is yet to grant the G1 visa to Khobragade.

ACSA has a restaurant, a swimming pool, a soccer field besides a host of facilities which are used by American diplomats and US nationals in India. It also has a tennis court the membership which is a privilege for few. To become a member, one has to be recommended by a US diplomat in India. The closure of the tennis facility will be a severe setback for not only US diplomats but some in the Capital's elite who have been invited to ACSA, which is a second home to the American expatriate community in New Delhi.

India has added to pressure on Washington by telling the US interlocutors that there will be severe strain in the Indo-US ties if the US public prosecutor Preet Bharara on goes ahead with the "indictment" of Devyani, which will make the Khobragade case even more complex.

Earlier US ambassador Nancy Powell had to cancel a scheduled trip to Nepal after the foreign ministry refused to extend her special privileges that usually come with the job. As reported by Mail Today earlier, the Indian foreign ministry has also prepared a fresh set of proposals to add pressure on the US. They include scrutiny of allegations of tax violations by the US mission.

There is also a specific mention of an air ticket purchased by the US embassy for the husband and family of Sangeeta Richard, Devyani's maid who along with her family is in the protection of the US Department of Home Land security.

Also under the scanner are the movie screenings at the American Centre in New Delhi and in its other centres. The proposal suggests that the US was organising these screenings without any permissions or even the censor certificate, and the Information and Broadcasting Ministry will be asked to examine this.

These measures form part of a set of proposals aimed at putting pressure on the US establishment to make them realise the seriousness of the situation.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who has been a huge backer of the Indo-US relations has also distanced himself from the entire affair and has clearly said that the matter has to be settled by the diplomats, clearly endorsing the tough response of the foreign office in the entire issuel

I think the embassy and the consulates should be forced to relinquish space in excess to that provided to Indian embassy and consulates. That will put a stop to a lot of non reciprocal stuff.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 05 Jan 2014 16:55

pankajs wrote:Devyani case: India mulling to shut American Embassy Club
India has added to pressure on Washington by telling the US interlocutors that there will be severe strain in the Indo-US ties if the US public prosecutor Preet Bharara on goes ahead with the "indictment" of Devyani, which will make the Khobragade case even more complex.

I think this is a signal that an US consul will be arrested here on tax evasion apart from unspecified other actions. The first time Nancy Powell opened her mouth on this issue a few weeks back, she hoped that the incident would not affect the relationship. I think that she was unmistakably told where the relationship would be headed if the issue was not resolved to India's satisfaction. What the Americans are doing now, in their infinite wisdom, is teasing India by prolonging the issue. There must be retribution for this prolongation too, apart. of course for the original sin itself. They are testing our resolve and trying to see if we blink at all.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 05 Jan 2014 16:57



I am surprised that India hasn't yet taken up the issue of SR and her family being escorted like that when court case is pending against them. US must be forced to give them back to us, we must not forget this while fighting for Devyani. This issue is also very important. What the f does US thinks of itself to decide whom to escort out or not ??? This transgression by US in Indian judicial matter is simply unacceptable.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Lilo » 05 Jan 2014 17:18

eklavya wrote:Khaleda Zia is not fighting the elections basically because she knows that she will lose. The US is continuing to make statements doubting the legitimacy of the elections:



Tomorrow there will be a clash of opinion on the legitimacy of Democratic elections in BD with "Worlds Oldest Democracy's" word directly opposed and contested by "World's largest democracy" .
World's largest Democracy wins :D .

Time for Massa to have a dose of its chilled coolaid it has been peddling all this time.
Key is to twist the balls of the Indian Media to project India's interests instead of its usual dance to the Massa tunes.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chandrasekhar.m » 05 Jan 2014 21:23

A few pages have gone by and a new year has come.
I request everyone who is not appalled at the rape of Devyani Khobragade by (what can be termed as) the US police, to reflect on why they are not alarmed at their lack of outrage at display of such inhuman behaviour.

There is only one victim here and one simple fact stands out like a gigantic pustule in the face of India-US relations and that is:
"She was set up and then raped by the suited-booted perverts in US law enforcement with the full connivance of the top officials in the State Department".

To all the naysayers who mention SOP, I question your lack of empathy and righteousness.
To all those who bring up irrelevant issues, you have forgotten that no one deserves to be raped, period (whether in custody or not).
And to those who still have a nagging doubt if she was indeed raped, I have no words to say.

If you still are not horrified, then maybe the penny will drop when you realise that this will happen sooner or later to you or your loved ones.

Maybe now you will understand why the Indian public and the government is incensed and in an unforgivable mood.
What was done to DK is 100% adharmam and makes me feel despondent, but the only hope is that atleast India still seems to have her soul in the right place.

I am not as articulate as this brave American who expressed his disgust when he came to know of the rape and other violations committed on a fellow American in New Mexico, USA. (Though I am not completely sure this guy will be as outraged if he hears about DK's case).
Please read and spend some time thinking about whether such rapist behaviour as meted out to DK or this guy in the article can ever be justified. Especially Americans (of every hue) and Indians in America need to do some more soul-searching. Substitute NM below with NY or the state you live in and go through the questions this American asks.

None of the emphasis is mine.

Live Or Travel In NM? What's Your Excuse?

Still not gonna stand up, are you?
4 On Your Side revealed how David Eckert rolled through a stop sign in Deming.

A K-9 named Leo alerted that it sniffed drugs on Eckert's driver's seat.

And, for the next 14 hours, those police officers, and doctors at the Gila Regional Medical Center performed eight medical procedures including x-rays, rectal finger exams, enemas, and finally a colonoscopy.

According to a federal lawsuit, officers Bobby Orosco and Robert Chavez were two of the officers involved, and they never found drugs inside Eckert.

Our investigation reveals another chapter. Another man, another minor traffic violation, another incident with Leo the K-9 and another example of the violation of a man's body.

Police reports state deputies stopped Timothy Young because he turned without putting his blinker on.

So we have not one instance of sexual assault by pigs and doctors on a NM person, we have two, both of which were perpetrated on innocent people?

Both perpetrated by the same dog, the same police department and the same hospital.

Exactly why, may I ask, are not both that copshop and hospital barricaded by the supposedly-law-loving citizens of New Mexico, who instead of doing so are consenting to and allowing random persons to be sexually assaulted at-will by both cops and doctors?

LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS: YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER WILL EVENTUALLY BE NEXT AND WHEN THEY ARE IT IS YOUR PERSONAL, JOINT AND SEVERAL FAULT AND PERHAPS THAT SON OR DAUGHTER WILL HOLD YOU PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALLOWING THIS CRAP TO CONTINUE.

This nation deserves what it gets; every person within a reasonable distance of those two entities who does not, right now, demand and enforce the immediate and permanent closure of both entities and the arrest, indictment, prosecution and imprisonment of every single person involved is in fact factually giving consent to what amounts to sexual assault under color of law -- that is, rape -- along with a raw and blatant violation of both 18 USC 242 and 42 USC 1983.

If you do not agree that this is tyranny defined why don't you try asking your wife or husband, say much less your teen daughter or son, if they would define forcible sodomy with foreign objects, literally at gunpoint, as tyranny.

I'm waiting for your thoughtful answer.

Karan Dixit
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan Dixit » 05 Jan 2014 22:05

I am just simply appalled.

NEW DELHI: A group of cybersecurity experts have questioned the Election Commission's move to tie up with Google for voters' registration, saying it could have possible impact on national security and democracy itself.

In the light of recent exposes about the penetrative and widespread intelligence gathering by the US agencies exposed by Edward Snowden, the activists also alleged that the EC's move was done without any strategic considerations and could have long-term repercussions.

"It is shocking that in a country like India which is called world's software superpower, Election Commission, instead of an Indian company, has chosen a foreign company like Google, which has colluded with American intelligence agencies like NSA (National Security Agency) for global cyberspying, to provide electoral registration and facilitation services by providing them the whole database of registered voters in India," the Indian Infosec Consortium said in the capital on Saturday.

"This will pose an unprecedented security risk to India, as this data is bound to be surely misused by Google and American agencies for cyberespionage and other surveillance operation by the United States," the group said.

According to reports, Google and EC have entered into an agreement under which the internet giant will help EC to manage online voter registration and facilitation services ahead of the 2014 elections.

Google will help manage online registration of new voters, allow the enrolled voters to verify their details, and get directions to the polling station. Voters' queries on the commission website are also to be managed by Google.

Jiten Jain, a member of the consortium, said the EC's move also raise questions if it is a violation of Public Records Act of 1993, which prevents official records from being stored abroad.

Rajsekhar Murthy, another member of the consortium, said the poll panel should have spoken to Indian companies such as Infosys or TCS before jumping into such a decision. "Cost wise it is not much," he said.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 411428.cms

vasu raya
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 05 Jan 2014 22:29

if the US ship seized in Tuticorin is a cause of this as Mr. RSN Singh says then piracy risk zone boundary would have to be pushed back upto the Indian EEZ else we would have to announce a Identification Zone for all ships plying in the EEZ including A&N island chain, Maldives and Sri Lanka. The enforcement part would stress the coast guard, yet investments have to be made since its impacting key diplomatic relations which could potentially cost us more. I wonder if coastal radars can be upgraded to 200km ranges.

Just for good measure include BD too, we are on a collision course on Maldives and BD with the US, there is a reason the Indian SSBN program is based on the east coast.

Amitava
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Amitava » 05 Jan 2014 22:46

PB's press statement says (emphasis added)
the arresting officers did not even seize her phone as they normally would have. Instead, they offered her the opportunity to make numerous calls to arrange personal matters and contact whomever she needed, including allowing her to arrange for child care. This lasted approximately two hours.


I would think that she would have called the Ambassador and/or the MEA during that time.

I am sure diplomatic staff are trained to handle emergency situations like attacks, accidents etc.

I am trying to understand what did they (amb, mea staff) do at that time?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 05 Jan 2014 23:37

Karan Dixit wrote:I am just simply appalled.

NEW DELHI: A group of cybersecurity experts have questioned the Election Commission's move to tie up with Google for voters' registration, saying it could have possible impact on national security and democracy itself.

In the light of recent exposes about the penetrative and widespread intelligence gathering by the US agencies exposed by Edward Snowden, the activists also alleged that the EC's move was done without any strategic considerations and could have long-term repercussions.

"It is shocking that in a country like India which is called world's software superpower, Election Commission, instead of an Indian company, has chosen a foreign company like Google, which has colluded with American intelligence agencies like NSA (National Security Agency) for global cyberspying, to provide electoral registration and facilitation services by providing them the whole database of registered voters in India," the Indian Infosec Consortium said in the capital on Saturday.

"This will pose an unprecedented security risk to India, as this data is bound to be surely misused by Google and American agencies for cyberespionage and other surveillance operation by the United States," the group said.

According to reports, Google and EC have entered into an agreement under which the internet giant will help EC to manage online voter registration and facilitation services ahead of the 2014 elections.

Google will help manage online registration of new voters, allow the enrolled voters to verify their details, and get directions to the polling station. Voters' queries on the commission website are also to be managed by Google.

Jiten Jain, a member of the consortium, said the EC's move also raise questions if it is a violation of Public Records Act of 1993, which prevents official records from being stored abroad.

Rajsekhar Murthy, another member of the consortium, said the poll panel should have spoken to Indian companies such as Infosys or TCS before jumping into such a decision. "Cost wise it is not much," he said.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 411428.cms


Please expand on the potential risks of knowing election registration info in conjunction with the US sending health data to India to be transcribed and tax prepration for US citizens plus all sorts of outsourcing of critical legacy IT system maintenance. What makes India so special? Mind you I discuss some of these problems with CIO's from major US corporations concerning controls and risks to their legacy systems maintenance.

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 06 Jan 2014 00:10

India is not in the business of outsourcing.
It has been put on sanctions and tech has been denied to India for many decades.

Indian mil and govt sources are hacked and spied upon by many countries and Indians dont want Indian govt to be vulnerable to outside countries. India has to create Indian version of ITAR

Gus
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 06 Jan 2014 00:16

Iceland has an older parliament. NZ has the earliest universal suffrage.

in massa, women and blacks got votes much later...not exactly a democracy with that.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 06 Jan 2014 00:22

TSJones wrote:Please expand on the potential risks of knowing election registration info in conjunction with the US sending health data to India to be transcribed and tax prepration for US citizens plus all sorts of outsourcing of critical legacy IT system maintenance. What makes India so special? Mind you I discuss some of these problems with CIO's from major US corporations concerning controls and risks to their legacy systems maintenance.

1) Private companies is different
2) US has explicit rules prohibiting any kind of sensitive data to be stored outside US. There is a reason why the Indian IT companies which have a good hold in private sector dont have as much hold in the US govt sector.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 06 Jan 2014 00:32

Virupaksha wrote:
TSJones wrote:Please expand on the potential risks of knowing election registration info in conjunction with the US sending health data to India to be transcribed and tax prepration for US citizens plus all sorts of outsourcing of critical legacy IT system maintenance. What makes India so special? Mind you I discuss some of these problems with CIO's from major US corporations concerning controls and risks to their legacy systems maintenance.

1) Private companies is different
2) US has explicit rules prohibiting any kind of sensitive data to be stored outside US. There is a reason why the Indian IT companies which have a good hold in private sector dont have as much hold in the US govt sector.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think they're using Google's cloud infrastructure to maintain that data and run an app on top to interact with it (the registration part). The question here is - What is the sensitive part about election registration info ? Ideally it should be all publicly available. I don't think it's an issue of private vs public companies as much as it is an issue of what kind of information do we think of as sensitive. For example credit card information and medical history are both sensitive. But are they in the same class ? What sort of information can be made available to companies of other countries and what cannot ? How should it be stored, what access controls instituted.

If there is nothing sensitive there because it will all be public anyways, using GOOGs infrastructure makes excellent sense. None of our IT majors are in that race and it will be a lot cheaper and easier to run on top of an existing infrastructure. We're going to take a while to get going with our own.
Last edited by KrishnaK on 06 Jan 2014 00:46, edited 1 time in total.

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 06 Jan 2014 00:34

Public does not mean foreigners have access to it

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 06 Jan 2014 00:37

KrishnaK wrote:What is the sensitive part about election registration info ? Ideally it should be all publicly available. I don't think it's an issue of private vs public as much as it is an issue of what kind of information do we think of as sensitive. For example credit card information, medical history are both sensitive. But are they in the same league ? What sort of information can be made available to companies of other countries and what cannot ? That article just makes some vague noise about sensitive information and google without even specifying exactly what service google provides.


Oh really maybe you should read the article again before giving your eggspurt opinion and what make medical history a "sensitive" information while the entire database of voters doesn't qualify under your eggspurt opinion ???

TSJones
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 06 Jan 2014 00:42

Acharya wrote:Public does not mean foreigners have access to it


I don't think you guys want a trade war. If you do, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

You want to sling mud at the diplomats, fine. Frankly, that's what they are there for. But a trade war won't just hurt the US.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ManjaM » 06 Jan 2014 00:52

TSJones wrote:
Acharya wrote:Public does not mean foreigners have access to it


I don't think you guys want a trade war. If you do, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

You want to sling mud at the diplomats, fine. Frankly, that's what they are there for. But a trade war won't just hurt the US.


A desire to keep sensitive Indian voter information within Indian control needs to be seen independent of the Devyani Khobragade episode. The former stands on its own merit.
I agree,however, that a trade war can be destructive for India. I sincerely hope we plan on stocking up on GE 404/414 engines for one. I believe the point has been driven home AGAIN on how fickle the US government and its bureaucracy can be, and this is a lesson I hope our planners, politicos and babus will imbibe and institutionalise.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 06 Jan 2014 00:54

TSJones wrote:Please expand on the potential risks of knowing election registration info in conjunction with the US sending health data to India to be transcribed and tax prepration for US citizens plus all sorts of outsourcing of critical legacy IT system maintenance. What makes India so special? Mind you I discuss some of these problems with CIO's from major US corporations concerning controls and risks to their legacy systems maintenance.


If you consider that US is sending "critical" information to India then US is the fool here not India since I don't remember India praying to US to do the same. So go ahead stop your country from being a fool. Why aren't you able to do that Mr. T S Jones ??? You "discuss" these problems with the right people no, help them to stop being a fool.

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 06 Jan 2014 01:01

Election commision and Voters information are govt of Indian dept and Govt information. Public means Indian citizens.

Foreigners means non Indian citizens including the online

TSJones
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 06 Jan 2014 01:13

Sagar G wrote:
TSJones wrote:Please expand on the potential risks of knowing election registration info in conjunction with the US sending health data to India to be transcribed and tax prepration for US citizens plus all sorts of outsourcing of critical legacy IT system maintenance. What makes India so special? Mind you I discuss some of these problems with CIO's from major US corporations concerning controls and risks to their legacy systems maintenance.


If you consider that US is sending "critical" information to India then US is the fool here not India since I don't remember India praying to US to do the same. So go ahead stop your country from being a fool. Why aren't you able to do that Mr. T S Jones ??? You "discuss" these problems with the right people no, help them to stop being a fool.


This may be off topic so it will be the last type trade war comment from me.

I do discuss this with the "right" people. We talk about their data being stored in the cloud and what measures they are taking to insure that their data does not give access to unwanted users while stored in the cloud, what contractual agreements thay have with the cloud, do they encrypt certain sensitive data when it is stored in the cloud, do they have an active privileged user access management program, does the encryption go through a single point encryption server before going to the cloud and *not* rely on the appplication to do the encryption, do they have a two tiered encypt key managment program, does the security measures go all the way through their data bases no matter where they're stored or does it stop at Windows Active Directory, what's their recovery plan, have they tested their disaster recovery plan and how often do they test, and most importantly do they realize that no matter what they do, if they have sensitive data some how linked to the internet, that data is subject to being copied and crossing foreign borders and rerouted foreign IPs? Well, that's some of the things, I discuss. Thanks for reading my rant.


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