India-US Strategic News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Dipanker » 10 Jan 2014 06:31

RCase wrote:Can the US declare a someone with the UN immunity as PNG? Wouldn't it be the UN that will need to ask her to leave?

If DK's immunity is from UN, then why would the US ask her to leave in 72 hours?



US indicts Devyani Khobragade, asks her to leave the country as India refuses to waive diplomatic immunity

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20905
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 10 Jan 2014 06:32

No apology,no compensation,she was just kicked out! If the MEA and UPA (final fling) want to restore their reputations,they will reciprocate and kick out a prominent US diplomat of higher rank than DK,and usher in diplomatic sanctions (that could extend in other areas) that will not be lifted until Headley/Gilani,Warren Anderson,RAW traitor (mentioning his name is sacrilege),return of the Richards,etc., are completed.There is a whole raft of options open to the MEA until the US apologises and compensates the outraged diplomat.

Yayavar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4786
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 10:55

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Yayavar » 10 Jan 2014 06:33

Good news but only half done. The indication of non-reciprocity is the size of embassies and location. See corresponding embassies and consulates India has in US or other European nations - snuck away in some corner; tiny and unimposing. It was probably in the enthusiasm after Independence that such allocations were made. Maybe it is time for full reciprocity for India to earn some self-respect in general.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54716
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2014 06:35

Also try to bring to trial the next spy and not hush it up and let them seek happy retirement.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 06:40

ramana wrote:Indina media from Shekar Dupatta onwards were in Mir Jaffer mode.

That's the problem. It can be assured that plenty from every walk of life, politician or bureaucrat or actor or businessperson or newsperson, are in collaboration with the American embassy/consular officers and do their bidding.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Jan 2014 06:41

RCase wrote:Can the US declare a someone with the UN immunity as PNG? Wouldn't it be the UN that will need to ask her to leave?

If DK's immunity is from UN, then why would the US ask her to leave in 72 hours?


She hasn't left the country and as of now it is not clear whether she will leave the country.

Earlier in the day, in a letter to a federal judge, District Attorney Preet Bharara said the diplomat would not be arraigned on the charges because she had left the country. Later, the U.S. Attorney's Office withdrew the claim, saying it had been informed by the State Department that she "was to have left the United States this afternoon."
One of Khobragade's attorneys told CNN late Thursday afternoon that she was still in the United States, but declined to say whether she planned to leave later.
"Despite Preet Bharara's reports to the contrary, Devyani Khobragade has not left the country. She is at home with her children," attorney Roselvin Sanchez told CNN. "This is her status as of now."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/09/politics/ ... diplomacy/

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 06:43

This is no resolution at all. GoI must reflect deeply on what sort of relationship that the US is imposing on us. Her ill-treatment stays without apologies. She has not been freed from charges. The 'evacuation' stays. All in all, the US is telling us 'take it or leave t'.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 10 Jan 2014 06:46

FWIW, my take on this is:

1. DK could leave the US and if she returned in a private capacity (w/o immunity) , the case would be restarted.

2. She can however, return to the US as part of the Indian UN delegation with full immunity and the case could not proceed

3. The DoS would have to re-grant her UN immunity which since they've already done so, should not be a problem

4. She goes back to the US after 6 months. The case is still in abeyance. She gets to be Hubby and kids.

Net net, the DoS clings to its stance about not granting 'retroactive immunity' which effectively means they won't call out the the Diplo Security force which goofed and PB because DK had immunity as of 8/26/2013.

The DoS has not admitted that Consular Corps have default immunity. Which while tortuously correct, screws up any defense of violations by US consular and non-immune staff in India.

The maximalist posture in DoS is that they don't 'apologize' (bad press). They however, are willing to cut all sorts of deals so that each party can claim media victory.

JMT, US is on the back foot here. They will seethe but play along as Clubgate proceeds in ND and grit teeth even if one of their homeys get caught and cavity searched.

I don't know if India have the ballons, but this latest turn was entirely predictable and unsatisfactory. DK had immunity as of August 26 and for DS to admit is to throw a lot of people under the bus and they won't do it.

JMT, tighten the screws on US Embassy, Consulates and School. Keep it away from defense cooperation.

You want to play the Pentagon against the DoS.

Immature states throw the baby out with the bath water. Mature states divide and conquer.
Last edited by Cosmo_R on 10 Jan 2014 06:49, edited 3 times in total.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 06:47

ManjaM wrote:Ajai Shukla is clearly not batting for Indian interests in this episode, who is he batting for.

Read my earlier post. viewtopic.php?p=1573445#p1573445

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4489
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Jan 2014 06:58

SSridhar wrote:This is no resolution at all. GoI must reflect deeply on what sort of relationship that the US is imposing on us. Her ill-treatment stays without apologies. She has not been freed from charges. The 'evacuation' stays. All in all, the US is telling us 'take it or leave t'.


yup, I guess GoI just didn't have any other arrow in its quiver. US dragged it out till the very end to see who would blink, and India blinked.

Check out the link below. For US to refuse visa for UN accredition would be without precedent. So they had to give it to her. Either now, or at least before the trial began. She wouldn't have been arrested till the trial was over.

India refuses US request to waive Devyani's immunity

...
He acknowledged that not accepting to this request of UN accreditation would have been very difficult for the United States.

"It is important to note that it would be almost without precedent to deny such a request except in the event of national security risks including espionage," the official said.

Requesting anonymity as the official is not allowed to speak to the media on this sensitive issue, the official said once the UN accreditation was granted that gave her the full diplomatic immunity, the US immediately requested India to waive this immunity so that she can be tried in a US court.

As expected, India denied the request. "The US requested waiver of immunity (of Devyani Khobragade).India denied that request," the official said.

"We then requested her departure, as per the standard procedure and the charges remain in place," the official added.
...


If India has balls, it should now hold fire till DK comes back home, and then pack off a bunch of senior diplomats, their gay companions, close down the American center and American school and tighten screws on remaining diplomats.

However, given the meekness of the current government, and that neither the NSA nor the MEA are known for tough measures (the PM is not worth mentioning), all that will just be our fantasy. They will probably even restore the unilateral privileges quietly without fanfare in couple of weeks.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54716
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Jan 2014 07:03

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/ ... DZ20140110

(Reuters) -....

While both New Delhi and Washington stressed the importance of their bilateral relationship during the crisis, it took weeks of complex wrangling to find a workable solution that would keep both sides relatively happy.

A U.S. government official said Washington accepted a request by India to accredit Khobragade at the United Nations and then asked New Delhi to waive the diplomatic immunity that status conferred. India denied this request, leading Washington to ask for her departure, the official said.

There was no immediate comment from the Indian Embassy in Washington or its mission to the United Nations.

Furious at the treatment of Khobragade, 39, India curtailed privileges offered to U.S. diplomats and ordered the U.S. Embassy to close a club for expatriate Americans in New Delhi.

On Wednesday, U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz postponed a visit to India scheduled for next week. This move came days after U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Nisha Desai Biswal delayed her first visit to the country to avoid the trip becoming embroiled in the dispute.

The arresting authority, the U.S. Marshals Service, characterized the strip search as a routine procedure imposed on any new arrestee.

While much of the focus has been on Khobragade, the cause of the nanny, Sangeeta Richard, has been taken up by a non-government organization called Safe Horizon, which campaigns for victims of abuse.

It said that although Richard's legal presence in the United States was tied to her employment, she had been granted temporary permission to remain while she cooperates with law enforcement as a victim of human trafficking.

It said Richards was likely to apply for a special "T-1" visa reserved for trafficking victims. Such a visa would be valid for up to four years and allow her to work in the United States. It can also lead to lawful permanent residence, according to the website of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

UNDERLYING PROBLEMS

Khobragade's departure would remove the focus of current friction between New Delhi and Washington, but it is unclear how long it will take the anger to subside in the run-up to national elections in India in May.

The case has exposed underlying problems in a bilateral relationship that has failed to live up to its billing by President Barack Obama in 2010 as "a defining partnership for the 21st Century."

Critics accuse Obama of failing to pay sufficient attention to ties with a country viewed as a key strategic counterbalance to China and as an engine to boost the U.S. economy, while American hopes of building a more robust business relationship with India have run into bureaucratic hurdles.

Frustration has grown among the U.S. corporate lobby. Indian sourcing rules for retail, information technology, medicine and clean energy products are contentious and U.S. firms complain about "unfair" imports from India of everything from shrimp to steel pipes. In June, more than 170 U.S. lawmakers signed a letter to Obama about Indian policies they said threatened U.S. jobs.

Daniel Markey, senior fellow for India, Pakistan and South Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations, said the Khobragade case made it appear the Obama administration had taken its eye off the ball on the relationship with India.

"The question is why this wasn't managed in a more sophisticated or subtle way, because things can be managed more effectively. This was always going to be an issue, but it could have been resolved more rapidly with less fanfare."

Speaking at a seminar on Thursday, Ron Somers, president of the U.S.-India Business Council blamed "bumbling on both sides" for the Khobragade affair.

"We have to do some thinking on this side as to what has there been in the way of frustration that allowed this incident to provoke and spill over as it has," he said.

"We really need now to be building trust and taking an introspective look at whether we really mean what we say when we talk about strategic partnership and how do we get there."


(Reporting by Nate Raymond in New York, David Brunnstrom in Washington, and Louis Charbonneau at the U.N.; Editing by Clive McKeef and Eric Walsh)



So my conclusion from the Gates memoir that Obama Admin is driven by local/domestic politics.

Current incident shows the WH is behind the whole mess to humilate Indian bureaucrats. The trap was sprung in June 2013 with that letter from 170 Congressmen.

The Admin uses all means to appease their local votebanks.

The quid was for bureaucrats to open up Indian markets to US goods.
Not CA, TSP or any such high lofty thing.

In the end its vyapari instinct.


Wonder how the Nirupama Rao failed to read the writing on the wall.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4489
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Jan 2014 07:04

Shekhar Gupta is a known US lapdog. Same for Ajai Shukla. Who can forget him advocating F-35 and bad-mouthing IAF for selecting Rafale? He himself has admitted that he has been on numerous Boeing/LM sponsored trips to US. US is pretty good at cultivating Indian media stars (wont waste the term professional here) .

Shekhar Gupta rarely strays from the massa's line. And most of his columnists are also selected to be that way. One interesting thing is that he has pretty good contacts in the government, especially PMO, and also with the US. Notice the coup and other stories planted by the PMO/Chidambaram earlier. He is a known house boy of US.

ParasuramanS
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 17
Joined: 17 Jul 2011 22:16

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ParasuramanS » 10 Jan 2014 07:25

Less said about the competency of Nirupama Rao the better. The minute that Devyanni's flight leaves US airspace - India must declare 2 higher-ranking US officials persona non-grata and expel them.

Also, declare a moratorium on all defence, national security and counter-terrorism related cooperation - which helps the US a lot than India, in any event.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 07:31

I would say that real action must start now. The US is an expert at making enemies and this incident has proved that the US is the most unreliable partner in any substantial business, political or military relationship. India must learn to extract a lot more from the US than what it gives back in return, something we have been grossly amiss in doing as shown easily by the privileges we gave to the Americans in return to what we got. And, India should always be prepared for the worst from the US. It must therefore build up enough ammunition to retaliate if such a thing happens.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19664
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2014 07:38

And the idiots in our strategy elite egged on by MMS and co, went and purchased a dozen billion $ worth of US arms. :roll:

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10608
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Jan 2014 07:43

ramana wrote:All please stick to India-US related news and discussions.
ramana garu: Deleting my OT posts. Yes, I do understand the need for a ship that is tightly run (for now? I hope we will get some leeway on further adventures of Dr. DK and her esteemed father).

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4489
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Jan 2014 07:43

Karan M wrote:And the idiots in our strategy elite egged on by MMS and co, went and purchased a dozen billion $ worth of US arms. :roll:


That was payback for nuclear deal, the crowning achievement of MMS

BijuShet
BRFite
Posts: 1575
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 23:14
Location: under my tin foil hat

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby BijuShet » 10 Jan 2014 07:44

I think posting her to the US was mistake by MEA. I hope they will avoid similar situations in the future. The added complexity of a US spouse made any mutually agreeable to all parties resolution almost impossible.
Last edited by BijuShet on 10 Jan 2014 08:06, edited 1 time in total.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4489
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 10 Jan 2014 07:45

matrimc wrote:
ramana wrote:All please stick to India-US related news and discussions.
ramana garu: Deleting my OT posts. Yes, I do understand the need for a ship that is tightly run (for now? I hope we will get some leeway on further adventures of Dr. DK and her esteemed father).


Shouldn't the activities of DK and her father be in the corruption thread? Let this be restricted to US-India relation.

a_bharat
BRFite
Posts: 660
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 09:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 10 Jan 2014 07:46

MEA Statement
Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade has left for India from the US, said the Ministry of External Affairs on Friday morning. This came after she was indicted on two counts of visa fraud and making false statements. Following is the full statement of the MEA on the latest in the case relating to Devyani Khobragade:

Dr Devyani Khobragade, Counsellor at the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations in New York, was accorded on 8th January 2014 the privileges and immunities of a diplomatic envoy under the terms of Section 15 of the Headquarters Agreement between the United Nations and the United States. At the same time, the US Government requested the Government of India to waive the immunity of Counsellor Khobragade.

On 9th January 2014, the Government of India declined to do so and transferred Counsellor Khobragade to the Ministry of External Affairs in New Delhi.

Vayutuvan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10608
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 04:36

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Jan 2014 07:50

putnanja wrote:Shouldn't the activities of DK and her father be in the corruption thread? Let this be restricted to US-India relation.

Sire that is the reason why I deleted my [mildly OT] posts from this thread. No, I do not have any interest in the corruption in India. It is an issue for the voting Indian citizens to get on top of. That is it from me on that, thank you.

a_bharat
BRFite
Posts: 660
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 09:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 10 Jan 2014 07:53

It is high time India takes steps to minimize the presence of USG employees/contractors in India. They are bribing their way into the system and already appear to have control on several entities/individuals in media, politics and government.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 07:58

So, basically, the US has clarified that it does not go by Vienna Conventions on Consular Relations, 1963, though it has signed it (but not ratified it)

a_bharat
BRFite
Posts: 660
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 09:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby a_bharat » 10 Jan 2014 08:00

http://www.innercitypress.com/us1sermanindia010914.html
Before Khobragade, US Let French Dip Serman Flee Before Indictment, & Return
By Matthew Russell Lee, Exclusive
UNITED NATIONS, January 9 -- In the run up to today's US indictment of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade for underpaying a domestic worker, US State Department spokespeople repeatedly insisted that the US has the utmost respect for India, that the relationship is extremely important to the US and they want to "move on."
Back in 2011, though, Inner City Press uncovered and exclusively reported on the case of a French diplomat, Romain Serman, who after assaulting a New York Police Department officer while allegedly buying cocaine was allowed to leave the country before any indictment. See story here, arrest report here.
While it may be debatable if assaulting a police officer when being arrested for cocaine purchase is more or less serious than allegedly underpaying a domestic worker, the disparity in US treatment between the French and Indian and French diplomat cannot be missed.
The Indian diplomat was arrested, booked and stripped searched -- and today indicted. The French diplomat Romain Serman was allowed to quietly leave the country without any indictment.
Usually the agreement upon being allowed to leave the US in this way is that the person will not come back to the US. But, amazingly, Romain Serman came back to the US -- as France's consul in San Francisco, still.
When Inner City Press reported this, the then spokesperson of the French mission demanded that Inner City Press remove the story from the Internet.
As with stories on Sri Lanka that the United Nations Correspondents Association demanded be taken down from the Internet or Inner City Press face expulsion, Inner City Press refused. The French spokesperson called this a "hostile act" (Inner City Press countered that it was an act of journalism) and things proceeded from there.
This becomes relevant now in light of reports not only of the disparity in indictment of Khobragade versus none for the French Serman, but that the US State Department might as an accommodation allow Khobragade to leave the country, as Serman was allowed to do WITHOUT indictment.
Would Khobragade then be allowed to return -- as a consul -- as Serman was? Watch this site.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24123
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2014 08:02

On the space science conference in the US that ISRO scientists are attending, there is a difference. No ministry official is going, unlike the proposed visits to India from the US. So, contacts at lower levels are continuing.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20905
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 10 Jan 2014 08:07

The Burger bites!

MEA have officially states that DK is being "transferred" to Delhi. She has already left.While it removes DK from the firing line in the US,the US's refusal to apologise for the inhuman treatment to an Indian lady diplomat who was sexually assaulted,can never be whitewashed however much apologists and desi "Uncle Shuklas" try.She has not been absolved of the charges filed against her.It will never be poss. for her to go to the US again.

The entire so-called "strategic relationship" with the US must now come under sober,serious review.It has been the long standing plot by the US to inveigle India (by willing desi anti-national conspirators) into becoming part of its global military alliance,especially in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region to contain China,where in its own war college paper ,India has been described as being the "western hinge" of US military policy.

Apart from no more diplomatic "fellatio"exemplified by the battle of the Burger",removing all special privileges for US diplomats and their establishments,we should also ban selected US diplomats from ever entering India in return.An expulsion of a high profile US diplomat is the minimum action that the MEA should carry out.

Giving the US special priviliges in arms deals,eco deals,etc. should now be removed as well.The cancellation of Indo-US def. exercises is a must.They should be suspended until an apology with compensation arrives,or a new dispensation takes charge at the White House.NO more future arms buys from the US.There are any number of western alternative manufacturers,esp. the Europeans who are in deep eco crisis where we can drive hard bargains.Cancellation of deals just announced to take place.The great N-deal is now a worthless piece of paper (apart from being used as bum scrapers) as the US n-plant manufacturers in any case are refusing to toe the line on N-accident liability.

No Indian diplomats or govt. servants should in future marry US citizens.No loans for Indian students going to the US (why perpetuate the brain drain?),not for studying in other nations.Students wanting to go to the US to study should give the GOI a suitable bank guarantee and the affirmation that they will return to India and work for a specified period in the country before going abroad again.

A tourist tax on visiting the US,for tourists only,not for humanitarian reasons,visiting relatives,etc.,as we have a huge diaspora in the US.

Finally,special vetting of US diplomats at Indian airports,ports for both immigration and emigration counters.Special "cavity search booths" to be set up in cases of suspected rug smugglers,currency smugglers,etc.Diplomats are notorious for abusing their diplomatic status,esp. with regard to drugs.The son of a prominent US diplomat once boasted at a party how he was going to smuggle drugs into the US using the diplomatic bag.

Indian citizens engaged in espionage and anti-national activities assisting the US ,have to be exposed and get their due reward as traitors after an open fair trial.As Ramana said,sweeping under the carpet US espionage conducted by its diplomats must end.

Indians in the US are now going to be especially targeted by the O'Bomber admin. All Indian citizens must be on their guard for false charges may be framed against them as was done in DK's case. A pity this case was not during the times of "Peter-the-Poof" Burleigh,who was US ambassador here.He could've been arrested on sexual deviant charges under the IPC!

Above all a total ban on all Govt. servants,IAS officers et al ,from going to the US on dispensation for studies,study tours,etc.Same rule for MPs and MLAs.The US throws crumbs to Indian public servants in the form of seats,scholarships for their children,jobs,etc. for becoming US touts.This has to end,period.
Last edited by Philip on 10 Jan 2014 08:16, edited 1 time in total.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19664
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Karan M » 10 Jan 2014 08:13

putnanja wrote:
Karan M wrote:And the idiots in our strategy elite egged on by MMS and co, went and purchased a dozen billion $ worth of US arms. :roll:


That was payback for nuclear deal, the crowning achievement of MMS


MMS has done more damage to India and Indian interests than probably any other leader in independent india, and that's saying something.

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mahesh_R » 10 Jan 2014 08:15

Uncle has shown us the place since NO apology is given ...and charges remain...
worst tsp was better and did not budge till uncle gave a formal apology in one of the incident..

spineless goi...not sure what else we have to see in future...

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6845
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 10 Jan 2014 08:25

I feel really sorry for DK. This is no resolution as SSJi said. Recall, she has 2 small school-going kids. Leaving them behind or taking them away to India in the middle of the school year is a massive disruption to her family. Sad. What a bunch of unrepentant a*holes.

saumitra_j
BRFite
Posts: 352
Joined: 24 Dec 2005 17:13
Location: Pune, India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby saumitra_j » 10 Jan 2014 08:28

I think once the lady is back, the imnediate problem is resolved. India has long institutional memory and the US will come out as the looser both in the short as well as the long term. In the short term, the relationship is reset at strict reciprocity. PB and his ilk are PNG as far as India is concerned. That WILL affect him if he ends up taking up any high office. In the long term, the US has just lost a strategic partner and a large market. IMHO and all that...

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8273
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 10 Jan 2014 08:30

I dont know about the rest of members. But I am of the opinion that Dr DK should have been tried by the US. It would have given us the opportunity to do the same to half a dozen US councillors.

sraj
BRFite
Posts: 259
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 07:04

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sraj » 10 Jan 2014 08:32

Comment in the Washington Post
Manek wrote:

3:46 PM EST

This is one of the most misleading articles that I have read. I stay 300 metres away from the US Embassy in Delhi. The US Embassy had blocked a public road so that it's staff could conveniently walk across from one compound to the other. Blocking this road did nothing for security as there are public roads in all the other sides of the embassy with free flowing traffic. This blockage of a public road was a big pain for residents like me. Thank gods the road has been unblocked. There are many more embassies like the Israel Syria Pakistan Afghanistan embassy where the security threat is much higher than the US embassy but no public roads are blocked. So there is no reason that the US should get special treatment. Secondly the US diplomatic staff could import duty free booze. They can still import but they have to pay duty like everyone else, and as the Diplomats in the US do. I think that has really pinched them badly. At the moment all additional privileges that Indian diplomats in the US don't get are being withdrawn for the US diplomats in India, so I don't consider it retaliation. Retaliation would happen when we start arresting US diplomats same sex partners, granting asylum to people like Edward Snowden. I think that it is sad that a great relationship between India and the US is built up by Clinton and Bush is being destroyed by an un imaginative Obama Administration. Then the US wonders why people hate them.

Also, Shashi Tharoor said US Embassy had itself put up these barricades blocking a public road. Who gave them this right?
The Return of the Ugly American
Likewise, the police have removed bollards and barriers that the US Embassy had unilaterally placed on the street in front of its complex in New Delhi, creating an obstacle to free circulation on a public road that India had tolerated in a spirit of friendship.


Ajai Shukla's performance on NDTV was despicable.

Someone needs to really clean up this mess in Delhi.
Last edited by sraj on 10 Jan 2014 08:48, edited 1 time in total.

Kati
BRFite
Posts: 1413
Joined: 27 Jun 1999 11:31
Location: The planet Earth

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Kati » 10 Jan 2014 08:35

Now that one curtain is coming down on the DK matter, there are some valid questions -
As an IFS officer DK's spouse was/is supposed to take the Indian citizenship. Their kids are about 7 and 3 years old, i.e., they have been married for 8 years. How come the 'filojophy proofsaar' still dilly-dallying with the citizenship issue? Or, was DK trying to
keep her two feet in two boats for as long as possible? If so, then it must be papa Khobragade trying to help her keep the status quo after getting her the adarsh flat.
This is indeed a serious issue we need to talk about openly, and should write scathing letters in various desi newspapers. I know one desi IFS person who took early retirement after spending a few years at a plump post in an european country. There is a possibility (just my speculation) that DK could have followed the same path after her US tenure. In a way, this amounts to give a slip to the MEA rule.

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 948
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 10 Jan 2014 08:40

SSridhar wrote:
ramana wrote:Indina media from Shekar Dupatta onwards were in Mir Jaffer mode.

That's the problem. It can be assured that plenty from every walk of life, politician or bureaucrat or actor or businessperson or newsperson, are in collaboration with the American embassy/consular officers and do their bidding.
Precisely why India has a record of mostly voting with the US in the UN :((

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mahesh_R » 10 Jan 2014 08:48

saumitra_j wrote:I think once the lady is back, the imnediate problem is resolved. India has long institutional memory and the US will come out as the looser both in the short as well as the long term. In the short term, the relationship is reset at strict reciprocity. PB and his ilk are PNG as far as India is concerned. That WILL affect him if he ends up taking up any high office. In the long term, the US has just lost a strategic partner and a large market. IMHO and all that...

I hope you are right but....
Lets wait for Jan 16..will all the commercial activities that are supposed to be closed...
And will we ever follow up on tax violations cases that were noticed... or atleast from today make sure they pay the taxes ??? if we do not have a spine to arrest them...

As some one said....if wishes were horses...

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mahesh_R » 10 Jan 2014 08:58

Kati wrote:Now that one curtain is coming down on the DK matter, there are some valid questions -
As an IFS officer DK's spouse was/is supposed to take the Indian citizenship. Their kids are about 7 and 3 years old, i.e., they have been married for 8 years. How come the 'filojophy proofsaar' still dilly-dallying with the citizenship issue? Or, was DK trying to
keep her two feet in two boats for as long as possible? If so, then it must be papa Khobragade trying to help her keep the status quo after getting her the adarsh flat.
This is indeed a serious issue we need to talk about openly, and should write scathing letters in various desi newspapers. I know one desi IFS person who took early retirement after spending a few years at a plump post in an european country. There is a possibility (just my speculation) that DK could have followed the same path after her US tenure. In a way, this amounts to give a slip to the MEA rule.

Yes sir...but that is step 3....
lets concentrate on step 2 of reciprocity.. ..will we ever ever do that ???
I started believing that we lost the will to fight...

We should have gone to the US court and shown the immunity DK had when she was arrested....
goi let us down though we had a strong case... PB issued a statement that immunity was provided recently so what abt the immunity provided on 8/26 ? no one is talking abt it...

OT<
I think the time has come for BRF members to start a political party.... may be who knows may be we could atleast get a sizeable majority...if AAP can then why not BRF.... Bharat Rakshak Party :D BRP >
Last edited by Mahesh_R on 10 Jan 2014 09:08, edited 2 times in total.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8693
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 10 Jan 2014 08:59

CRamS wrote:I feel really sorry for DK. This is no resolution as SSJi said. Recall, she has 2 small school-going kids. Leaving them behind or taking them away to India in the middle of the school year is a massive disruption to her family. Sad. What a bunch of unrepentant a*holes.



No problem. She can send them to the American School in Delhi. :)

vic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2412
Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vic » 10 Jan 2014 09:01

USA rapes a woman and then throughs her out. And Munna will declare it as a victory.

Mahesh_R
BRFite
Posts: 185
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 00:46

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mahesh_R » 10 Jan 2014 09:01

Mort Walker wrote:
CRamS wrote:I feel really sorry for DK. This is no resolution as SSJi said. Recall, she has 2 small school-going kids. Leaving them behind or taking them away to India in the middle of the school year is a massive disruption to her family. Sad. What a bunch of unrepentant a*holes.



No problem. She can send them to the American School in Delhi. :)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Dipanker » 10 Jan 2014 09:01

KrishnaK wrote: Precisely why India has a record of mostly voting with the US in the UN :((


You will be surprised to know that India had voted against USA about 75% of the time till early part of the 90's! The current overall may be 70% against and 30% in favor ( just a crude guess ).
Last edited by Dipanker on 10 Jan 2014 09:04, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dsreedhar and 57 guests