India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 09 Jan 2014 05:19

you really think so ?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Jan 2014 05:20

Stage being set to push CM Modi to the wall after he is elected and make India into another Iran? If so I think SD should be pushed to the breaking point so that who is for the first option and who are all for "teaching India a lesson" will be clear to the world.

There are parallels - during shah regime there were a large number of Iranians in US - in fact the largest number legal immigrants from any other country at that time and the largest number of students. One important point SD babus are missing is that India is a pluralistic secular country.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 09 Jan 2014 05:29

Wasn't PB appointed by Obama?

FYI:
From: http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/meetattorney.html

Bharara was nominated to become U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York by President Barack Obama on May 15, 2009 and unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate. He was sworn into the position on August 13, 2009

(This is extremely impressive, because senate in most cases tried to block everything BO, and often held up confirmations)

Also very interesting part from an interview he gave:

To judge the attitude of anyone PB hires, he says, PB will ask all applicants to his office "How are you going to feel knowing that every day in your job, by definition of you doing your job correctly on the criminal side, you will basically be the proximate cause for, and responsible for, another human being losing his or her liberty for periods of time? ... From time to time, you get an applicant that is a little bit excited about that prospect. And takes some joy in that prospect. And they are a little too zealous about it. And you know what we do? We don't hire that person." His says

"You don't want a justice system where you have prosecutors who are cowboys"
(Ironic that "Cow Boy" is now he is known by many)

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 Jan 2014 05:29

A better article in reuters -

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB ... S&irpc=932

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2014 05:35

Folks Bharara is distraction. Don't froth about him.
Its the SD from the begining.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 09 Jan 2014 05:44

BijuShet wrote: A point to ponder for MEA going forward. Officers with non-Indian spouse should not serve in the nation of the foreign born spouse. It adds more complexity to contentious issues and forces the diplomat to choose sides that may be harmful to their personal situation.

They should go further and state that GoI employees above a certain rank are not allowed foreign spouses/kids/parents, irrespective of where they are posted. Otherwise, it would be a nightmare to determine who can be posted where, etc.

Regarding posting in the nation of foreign born spouse: it does not matter if DK were posted to France. There could be some engagement between India and France which the US may not like, and the latter can use the spousal foreign citizenship as a leverage to influence policy.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 05:59

Altair,"Oliphant" of old ...

Yup,that would be a sight, for Gimli to have a go too!

The contortions of the Yanquis in this spat,reminds me of another great moment from celluloid ,Terminator-2,where the T's face contorts and changes shape and faces while melting in the furnace.The SD is doing everything poss. to wriggle out of the mess which it created without saying sorry and kowtowing to India.Our babus are past masters at fillibustering and nitpicking and well knowning that the snake-oil mendicant has been made to swallow his own medicine,condition terminal, and is on life-support with regime change also in the air.They are now exercising their faculties to the full which are usually "caged" by their political bosses.Moments of freedom before another regime arrives,and an old foe who has tripped up to stomp upon!

Here comes Legolas! Go too Gimli! No more frolicking at the ACSA "massage parlour" for our desi quislings !

Shut down club in Delhi, govt. tells American Embassy

The government on Wednesday gave the American Embassy in New Delhi a week’s time to close down a multi-purpose club on its premises, running in violation of the Geneva Convention.

The club includes a bar, pool, beauty parlour, restaurant, bowling alley and tennis courts. Outsiders including Indian government officials, businessmen and journalists were entertained at the club which was meant only for American Embassy diplomats.

India generally overlooks this misuse by embassies but has reeled in exceptions to U.S. diplomats after a fall out between the two countries over the arrest of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in New York on December 12.

India began withdrawing all special privileges to the U.S. Embassy and the consulate staff, not extended to its staff posted in America. Last week, the government asked the U.S. Culture Centre to not screen movies as it didn’t have a licence for the purpose. After a Monday evening meeting between U.S. Ambassador Nancy Powell and Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh saw no movement on the Khobragade issue, officials spoke of implementing more measures.

India is seeking an apology from the U.S. and withdrawal of charges against the diplomat. The crackdown on quasi-commercial establishments in the Embassy and instructions not to make exceptions for the U.S. embassy are part of the approach to treat U.S. Counsellors on par with Indian Counsellors in the U.S.

Identity cards giving special privileges to U.S. diplomats in consulates have already been recalled and replaced with ones that put them on par with their Indian counterparts in the U.S. Their airport passes have been cancelled and barricades outside the U.S. embassy have been removed as part of this “reciprocity”.

India tells US to close embassy club; anger exposes flaws in ties Jan 8 2014

NEW DELHI/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - India ordered the United States on Wednesday to close down an embassy club for expatriate Americans in New Delhi, escalating a diplomatic row between the two nations that has brought faultlines in their ties out in the open. Furious at the arrest, handcuffing and strip search of its deputy consul in New York last month, India initially reacted by curtailing privileges offered to U.S. diplomats. The officer, Devyani Khobragade, was accused by prosecutors of underpaying her nanny and lying on a visa application, Still festering nearly a month on, the row has started to affect the wider relationship between the world's two largest democracies, with one high-level visit by a senior U.S. official already postponed and a visit scheduled for next week by U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz looking doubtful. Both sides have said the relationship is important and will not be allowed to deteriorate - Washington needs New Delhi on its side as U.S. troops pull out of Afghanistan and it engages with China. Millions of Indians have made the United States their home and bilateral trade is worth about $100 billion a year. But the row over Khobragade, which should not have been more than an easily resolved irritant, is just not going away and has plunged the two countries into a crisis described by Indian media as the worst since New Delhi tested a nuclear device in 1998. "I'm a little worried it may spin out of control," said Lalit Mansingh, a former Indian ambassador to the United States who has also served as India's top diplomat and is now retired. India stepped up the pressure on Wednesday ahead of a January 13 court appearance where Khobragade could be indicted, ordering the U.S. embassy in Delhi to stop receiving non-diplomats at an embassy club popular with expatriate Americans for its swimming pool, restaurant and bar. Americans working in the Indian capital have been frequenting the club for decades. The embassy said it had no comment to make on the move. Despite an overall improvement in ties since the end of the Cold War, the dispute has brought into the open the lingering wariness between the two countries. Over the past year, there has been increasing friction over trade, intellectual property rights and visas for Indian IT workers. There is also a legacy of mistrust between the both sides, with some Indian officials whose professional life began when India was a close partner of the Soviet Union still not convinced Washington is a reliable ally. Despite close security and economic cooperation now, many officials recall U.S. support of Pakistan, India's old enemy, and some quietly believe the United States sees a strong India as a threat. "For 50 years we were led to believe that the United States was an adversary. For the last 10 years we have been experimenting with a strategic partnership. It is not a done deal." said Mansingh. Among some U.S. diplomats there is a perception that while India insists on respect and friendship from Washington, it fails to deliver either in support on issues such as Iran or Afghanistan, or by giving enough commercial access to U.S. businesses. MORE RETALIATION To defuse the spat, India wants the U.S. State Department to approve Khobragade's transfer to its U.N. mission in New York, a move it believes would give her immunity from prosecution. If that doesn't happen before the U.S. government commences a preliminary hearing or files an indictment, India could unleash more retaliation measures, a government source with knowledge of the affair told Reuters. U.S. officials hope for a resolution to the Khobragade row through some sort of plea-bargaining process. State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf has said Indian officials were in touch with the U.S. Justice Department. If the row persists, the next casualty could be the trip by Moniz, due in Delhi later this month for a round of talks to promote trade and investment in the energy sector, the government source in New Delhi said. The talks usually include discussions of civil nuclear trade between Indian and the United States. For now, the trip has not been cancelled. However, the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, Nisha Desai Biswal, has postponed her first visit to India, which was due on January 6, to avoid it becoming embroiled in the dispute. Harf said Biswal would visit India as soon as possible, but no date had yet been set. India is also preparing to take steps against the American Embassy School, which it suspects may be employing some staff in violation of tax and visa requirements, the government source said. Along with the embassy club, the highly respected school is the heart of Delhi life for the families of many expatriate employees of U.S. corporations in India. "Has an era of steadily improving ties between the two countries come to an end?" asked Indian Human Resource Minister Shashi Tharoor in a column published this week. "Indian-American relations had been strengthening owing to both sides' shared commitment to democracy, common concerns about China, and increasing trade and investment," wrote Tharoor, a former senior U.N. official who unsuccessfully contested for the Secretary-General's post in 2007. "The Khobragade affair suggests, however, that all this is not enough: sustaining a strategic partnership requires, above all, mutual respect." LEGACY As the two countries drew closer over the past decade, the United States had high hopes India would emerge as a counterbalance to a rising China and a new engine for the U.S. economy. However, there is a widespread sense the relationship has drifted since India's 2009 nuclear deal with the Bush administration marked a sharp improvement. Anti-Indian feeling has grown among the U.S. corporate lobby. Indian sourcing rules for retail, IT, medicine and clean energy technology are contentious and U.S. companies gripe about "unfair" imports from India of everything from shrimp to steel pipes. In June, more than 170 U.S. lawmakers signed a letter to Obama about Indian policies they said threatened U.S. jobs. Now, with general elections due in India in four months, and mid-term elections in the United States in November, the fear is that the current row will make it harder for both sides to stick their necks out and make progress on thorny issues such as liability for nuclear equipment suppliers. "There is such a long laundry list of concerns on the American side that seem to be ignored or slow rolled in India,' said Persis Khambatta at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank. "The risk is that this incident will dig up a lot of frustration that had built up." (Additional reporting by Aruna Viswanatha and Valerie Volcovici in Washington and Joseph Ax in New York and Sruthi Gottipati in New Delhi; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan)

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/india-te ... ef_article

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 09 Jan 2014 06:02

If it becomes a civil dispute, cant India ask for extradition of SR?

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 09 Jan 2014 06:03

Question - we need to consider life without US. If diplomatic relations are downgraded, what happens to trade and imports from the US ?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Jan 2014 06:10

From wikipedia entry on Secy John Kerry -

Kerry won many debates against other college students from across the nation.[9] In March 1965, as the Vietnam War escalated, he won the Ten Eyck prize as the best orator in the junior class for a speech that was critical of U.S. foreign policy. In the speech he said, "It is the spectre of Western imperialism that causes more fear among Africans and Asians than communism and thus, it is self-defeating."[10]

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2014 06:14

Sanjay wrote:Question - we need to consider life without US. If diplomatic relations are downgraded, what happens to trade and imports from the US ?

I don't think trade would be affected much. Look at the trade between Russia & Europe, or US & China. Business and trade goes on a separate track. It is just that there will be no special favours on either side. Lobbying will become that much harder by the government officials.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2014 06:15

Philip, I dont see how that news report where MEA asks US Embassy to shut down non-reciprocal facilities as a blow. OTH it shows how much India allowed non-reciprocal facilities to US. What were the reasons for MEA to give them in first place?

So far it does not look like one reciprocal action related to DK arrest has been taken by India.

All these artciles are spin and churn by MEA pasand news reporters to show how vigorous action was taken by them and by complaints and justificatsion about how this is not cricket by US SD pasand reporters in US and India.

Tell me MEA cancels liquor permits to US diplomats in repsonse to DK arrest and thats a blow?
It helps the US dipolmats health! After all British cemetries inIndia are littered with graves of young service men who died of excess drink in the tropical climate!

und so weiter with rest of the measures.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 09 Jan 2014 06:23

Ramana, to be fair, if you held some US consular officials without going through the escalatory phases, DK might have zero chance as opposed to the slim one now.

That said, the US clearly does not want a relationship with India. They want a vassal state. Even US businesses "concerns" are really because they have no intention of playing fair in India.

I mean after Fukushima people are objecting to a liability clause ? Really ? That sounds like a cop-out to me.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 06:43

To any neutral observer, it would appear that the actions taken by GoI such as withdrawing permission for the club, removing barriers etc would appear as purely retaliatory because of the sheer timing. We should have no qualms about admitting that ourselves though externally we should maintain that these were just to reset the highly skewed reciprocal privileges enjoyed by the US diplomats here. That the US is not going to be bothered by these measures is now clear. They are building up the case for an eventual showdown, if it comes to that. They are in no mood to settle the issue amicably. Obama must have realized, by this time, that the situation has gone out of control but has not intervened to stop its deterioration which means that he is either powerless wrt State Department (which would be rather strange) or that he is also on board with them. The latter seems true for me and that is what is making matters worse. We have all speculated on what is driving this huge American action but we have no clue at all about the real cause so far.

I believe that GoI would take an equal measure reciprocal action, which would mean arresting a US diplomat, only when it feels that things have reached a point of no return. I think that determination has not yet been made. They are waiting for an indication of how Devyani's UN accreditation is being processed by the State Deptt. That should give a clue.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 09 Jan 2014 06:47

If I take my CT hat off, what would have been the Indian reaction if there was no intrusive searches but just plain arrest/subsequent-bail? Maybe the intrusive searches were unintentional?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Jan 2014 06:50

SSridhar:

> he is either powerless wrt State Department (which would be rather strange)

There is a precedent - Nixon-Kissinger duo (when the latter was the NSA to Nixon) during the 1971 US blunder in supporting the then West Pakistani genocide in the then East Pakistan had no support from the state department. The reverse could be true now provided President Obama is given the benefit of doubt of being pro-India based on the fact that he has a number of Indian-Americans in his administration.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 06:56

matrimc, it is a stretch, IMO, to accept that the reverse could be true because of the power equation between the President and one of his Ministries unless Obama acted like in the case of 2G where the minister overruled his boss, the PM, and the PM accepted it meekly. I do not believe that such a situation exists in the GotUS/PotUS.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 07:00

V_Raman wrote:If I take my CT hat off, what would have been the Indian reaction if there was no intrusive searches but just plain arrest/subsequent-bail? Maybe the intrusive searches were unintentional?

Raman, an arrest also would have created a similar situation for several reasons. No doubt the intrusive searches on a lady diplomat added much fuel to the fire, which many Americans (including a few BRFites) do not realize and dismiss it as SOP; but, even an arrest and charge for 'human trafickking' and 'visa violation' would have resulted in exactly the same reaction by GoI. To compound the anger, the family was spirited away from India at US government expenses and the DA implied that the Indian judicial system was suspect etc. The US has committed mistake after mistake.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 09 Jan 2014 07:04

Say Kerry wants to make another run for presidency and Obama is supporting Biden (or even Clinton). That would put them on a collision path. Also President cannot willy-nilly pull up one of his (probably the most powerful) cabinet members on every infraction. There is lot going on and the flap with India is a footnote considering Israel-Palestine, Syria, Iran, and South Sudan (human trafficking and human rights) in addition to the headaches in Iraq and the most active one right now Afghanistan.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 07:06

I agree that until we put up a sign at airports "cavity search queue" for US diplomats and visitors,at our airports,an equivalent diplomatic slap in the face equivalent hasn't occured.The MEA should also demand compensation for the manner in which the diplomat was sexually assaulted.

Two areas where there have been serious differences recently are Afghanistan and BDesh,where we are not kowtowing the US line.The reports also speak of deep anti-India anger by US corporates."Nannygate" has the potential to bring down relations to CW levels.O'Bomber having Indo-Ameficans in his administation has less to do with stroking India than garnering valuable local support from the Indo-American community at home.

However,what this spat fortunately has done is to expose the rottenness of the MMS regime which performed the equivalent of "diplomatic fellatio" to the US.Even bringing down the extra privileges of the Yanqui diplomats to the level of other missions,is a major PR step.Hitting the US school and their domestics should be the next step.With their neo-colonial lifestyle affected, the yanquis will have much heartburn.

Last updated: January 9, 2014
US energy secretary delays India trip
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5b5c1e2-786d ... z2prb5stnu

US energy secretary Ernest Moniz will no longer travel to India as planned next week, an energy department official said on Wednesday, the most serious repercussion yet in a dispute over the arrest of an Indian diplomat in New York.

Party's over for the US embassy: External Affairs Ministry orders US mission to shut cafes, gym, and salon - and cracks down on duty-free alcohol

By Saurabh Shukla
PUBLISHED: 22:12 GMT, 7 January 2014

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... z2prRe2EQY

With less than a week left for Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade's formal indictment in New York for visa fraud, New Delhi's pressure on the American embassy here has begun to hit where it hurts.

Two fresh diplomatic notes verbales accessed by Mail Today reveal that the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) wants the embassy's club shut down and the sale of duty-free liquor within it to end.

The commissary in the US Embassy in New Delhi that sells duty-free liquor is not allowed to do so, and this should be discontinued, one of the notes verbales says.
"We have a suspicion that the US commissary is making profits by selling duty-free liquor and other items to diplomats from other countries. This must stop immediately," an MEA source told Mail Today.

The US commissary, which sells duty-free liquor, wine and exotic foreign goods at cheap prices, is favoured by many Western diplomats.

The second diplomatic note confirms what Mail Today reported earlier - that the government has sent a formal notice to the embassy to shut the American Club situated near its Gate E.

The club, whose official name is the American Community Support Association (ACSA), has a restaurant, swimming pool, soccer field, tennis court besides a host of facilities used by American diplomats and US nationals in India.
New Delhi's note verbale says that the US is violating diplomatic protocol by running a beauty salon, restaurant and other facilities

Eateries at the club include the Out of India Restaurant, Delhi Diner Snack Bar, The Great Escape Bar, Windward Café Poolside Bar, besides the Cafeteria.

The club also has a gymnasium, swimming pool, and bowling alley besides a gift shop and a DVD rental shop.

The note verbale says that the US is violating diplomatic protocol by running a beauty salon, restaurant and other facilities, and that these should be shut within 10 days.

ACSA has seven categories of members, including non-diplomats in categories such as guest members, affiliate members, and affiliate special members. It also provides membership to diplomats of other countries who also make duty free purchases at the commissary.
SPECIAL STATUS TO UNCLE SAM

Officials say many non-diplomats, including some persons from the corporate world, have been allowed duty-free purchases as well as use of the facilities in violation of all norms.

The ongoing tussle will hurt the diplomatic community, especially their families, who have enjoyed the facilities at the American club.

The decision is clearly the fallout of the Devyani Khobragade incident, but MEA officials say that it also sets right a diplomatic anomaly as the Indian mission in the US has never enjoyed the special diplomatic privileges the US has been given here.

India has already told US interlocutors that Indo-US ties will come under severe strain if the US prosecutor Preet Bharara goes ahead with framing charges against Devyani, a development that will make the case even more complex.

The Central Board of Excise and Customs has been asked to look into alleged service tax violations by the US mission.

An air ticket purchased by the US embassy for the husband and family of Devyani's maid Sangeeta Richard, who along with her family is now under the protection of the US Department of Homeland Security, has come in for specific mention.

Also under the scanner are movie screenings at the American Centre in New Delhi and similar other centres. The proposal suggests that the US was organising these screenings without any permissions or censor certificates, and the Information and Broadcasting Ministry will be asked to examine this.

Another recommendation that forms part of the MEA's proposals is related to an understanding of 1973 between India and the US that exempted 16 employees of the American School from paying taxes.

This concession has been misused by the US mission and no American School staffer pays taxes now. This has also being referred to the Department of Revenue in the Ministry of Finance.

The MEA also wants to examine employment contracts of all local employees and make it mandatory for the US mission to file all contracts with the MEA.

These measures form part of a set of proposals aimed at putting pressure on the US establishment to make them realise the seriousness of the situation.

Devyani seeks extension of indictment deadline
Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade has sought a one-month extension of the deadline for charging her in the visa fraud case, but her plea has been opposed by the prosecution.

The move came as the US said on Tuesday that it wants to resolve the ordeal as soon as possible.

Khobragade has requested an extension of the January 13 indictment deadline, saying the pressure of the impending deadline is interfering with the ability of the parties to have meaningful discussions.

India-born US prosecutor Preet Bharara's office is required to file charges against the 39-year-old diplomat within 30 days of her arrest.

However, in a request submitted late on Monday with Magistrate Judge Sarah Netburn of the US District Court for the Southern District of New York, Khobragade's counsel sought a postponement of the preliminary hearing date, currently scheduled for January 13, and an extension of the indictment deadline by 30 days to February 12, 2014.

"Significant communications have been had between the prosecution and the defence and among other government officials and it is our strong view that the pressure of the impending deadline is counterproductive to continued communications," Khobragade's counsel Daniel Arshack said in the request.

The lawyer told the judge that he has conferred with the prosecution concerning extending the deadline and has been informed that the prosecution will not seek an extension of the deadline.

"We therefore, wish to inform the court that we waive the 30- day time limit set by the court on December 12, 2013 because we believe that the time limit is interfering with the parties ability to continue to have meaningful discussions," Arshack said in his request.

Responding to Arshack's request, Bharara wrote to the judge that his office is opposed to the extension of the deadline sought by Devyani, saying plea discussions can continue even after she is charged.

"This office remains receptive to continuing the plea discussions that have taken place over the past several weeks. We have participated in hours of discussion in the hope of negotiating a plea that could be entered in Court before January 13," Bharara said.

"Indeed, as recently as Saturday, January 5, the government outlined reasonable parameters for a plea that could resolve the case, to which the defendant has not responded," he added.

The US, meanwhile, stated that it wants the issue to be resolved as soon as possible, with State Department deputy spokesperson Marie Harf saying: "As I've said, many, many times throughout this whole ordeal, that we don't want this to define our relationship going forward and don't think that it will. We want it to be resolved as soon as possible. Certainly, that's our goal, but we're only part of this process."

Asked if the US was hopeful that the issue would be resolved, Harf said, "Absolutely".
India has sought an US apology and withdrawal of charges against Devyani. The US, however, insists that this is an isolated incident.

Harf said the US is letting the episode run its course, and is focused on where to go from here. PTI

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... z2prRnCgN5

habal · Post by **habal** » 09 Jan 2014 07:09

Sanjay wrote:Agreed. However, it is deeper. The loathing of Indians is endemic, it appears, in the US. All sense was abandoned in this case and in the case of the WaPo, they seem to advocate that Indians should follow US law but US should not follow Indian law.

At its core is the sense of entitlement the US has.

the reason they got that perception is because India didn't stand up for any country in Asia, when the US launched their unilateral wars. In US & SD minds Asia is uniquely related to India, just as East Asia is to China, Korea & Japan and so was North Africa to certain extent, the US committed so many atrocities there but nary a whimper from the MEA or our politicos. It sent out a subtle message that India supports supremacy of US justice. I had sensed that the arab spring & color revolutions were all targeted against stability in Asia whose pivot is India & China. Fortunately China is more effective in communications with US which allowed them to escape from giving out such an impression.

Secondly the SD may also be trying to corner the next govt, under this pretext, this change they consider by now a fait accompli and a massive hindrance to their plans of subversion in the region. And they are trying to put the next govt in a spot, so expect this to stretch on and on, as far as the SD is concerned well into next govt.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 09 Jan 2014 07:22

U.S. judge denies request for delay in Indian diplomat case
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/ ... 5H20140109

DK will now be under heavy pressure to accept a guilty plea in return for a minimal sentence.

Also, since this is apparently a non-jury case (is it, why?), the judge's ruling might indicate she is predisposed towards the prosecution side.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jan 2014 07:36

I'm not too sure how this downturn in relations puts the next government in a spot (that is assuming an NDA govt comes to power)?

Whatever may be outcome of this spat over DK the fact remains that India and the US will have to deal with each other in some form or the other. If the current row ensures that all the anomalies that had crept into the relationship (unequal privileges, etc) are pushed back towards a purely transactional quid pro quo relationship then that gives far more strategic freedom to the next dispensation to decide which direction they want to take the relationship.

I think the main sin of the current dispensation is that they have been charmed by all the brouhaha of special relationship and (this being) one of the defining relationships of the 21st century. When you start to believe in all this PR talk then you just lend yourself to the problems that we are now in. When your trick dog refuses to go through the hoop then you start to think that something is wrong with the dog and it's not that you are being unreasonable to expect that the dog will go through the hoop every time you ask it to. I think that sums up the SD and media attitude in this case.

The GoI should have done what they are doing now in the Kirttika Biswas case it should have put its foot down the Prabhu Dayal case, heck it should have informed SD about red line in no uncertain terms.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jan 2014 07:44

Nandu wrote:U.S. judge denies request for delay in Indian diplomat case
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/ ... 5H20140109

DK will now be under heavy pressure to accept a guilty plea in return for a minimal sentence.

Also, since this is apparently a non-jury case (is it, why?), the judge's ruling might indicate she is predisposed towards the prosecution side.

I don't think it's in DK's hand to take a decision on this. MEA is too deeply involved in this.

And it may not be such a bad idea that things will come to a head sooner than later. As one of the reports said previously, it's not just about DK - even though I fully sympathise with her - it's about the entire IFS cadre who are and will be posted at the US, particularly in NYC.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2014 07:47

Basically, we have two more days. Monday, 13th is the deadline for indictment. If US SD doesn't grant DK G1 visa by friday, we will need to see how India will react.

vic · Post by **vic** » 09 Jan 2014 07:48

Trial of DK would be good for India as a constant reminder of USA perfidy. 0n the other hand I fear that Munna may allow corrupt DK to plea bargain and leave egg on Indian face.

Incidentally have we hired top level law firm and lobby firms for DK in NY? As her lawyer seems mid level. Legal system is basically old boys network, we should hire same firm as Boeing, for instance

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jan 2014 07:50

^^^^^
The judge's decision should be read in conjunction with the earlier report that the Energy Sec has postponed his trip on Jan 15th. Another point. Biswal's trip was supposed to be on the 13th. Now SD is saying her trip has be "postponed" with no firm date on the agenda.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jan 2014 07:53

... corrupt DK to plea bargain and leave egg on Indian face.

An old Indian habit of self-goals.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 07:59

It looks like the battle lines are being drawn,"Pharoah's"heart is hardening. Gates' denunciation of O'Bomber in his memoirs as a weak leader is happening at the same time.What way to show your toughness than by turning the
screw on the "Injuns" whom you anyway despise?

The US never wants an equal relationship with a non-white nation on the planet,simple as that.If the white nation is not of the "WASP" category,it gets treatment a notch lower.But nations from the "turd world" are trodden underfoot and must expect to be treated as latter-day slaves to their white massa.Racism prevails so strongly in the US and a few scratches will bring out its true "colour" and prejudice.Henry Ford after all inspired Hitler with his anti-Semitismhe was one of the Fuhrer's gurus.

Battle of the burger: India targets US ex-pat club with ban as diplomatic row escalateshttp
://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/b ... 46153.html

XCpt

Nothing hurts an American like going after his Budweiser and burgers.

This, at least, appears to be the calculation taken by the Indian authorities as a simmering diplomatic row between Delhi and Washington took a new, unlikely turn. In a move designed to hit where it hurts, India is acting to prevent non-diplomats from using a social club located at the US embassy in the heart of Delhi.

The club, which has a bar, swimming pool, gym and restaurant and which is a haven for countless expatriates during the vicious heat of summer, has been here for decades. But Indian officials have told their US counterparts that to allow non-diplomats to visit the facility would be a breach of the Vienna Convention because of the club's tax-free status.

The US officials have reportedly been told they must cease all commercial activities benefiting non-diplomatic staff on its premises by January 16. Hundreds of expatriates, both US and other nationalities, use the club. Whether it could survive without their custom is unclear

ParasuramanS · Post by **ParasuramanS** » 09 Jan 2014 08:02

India should be completely hard-headed, pragmatic and consistently and persistently tough in its foreign-policy dealings with one and all (friend or foe, large or small), based entirely and only on self-interests and reciprocity. No wishy-washy, teary-eyed, inferiority complex-driven, one-world type diplomacy.

Simply put, the role of Indian diplomacy must be to stake the most powerful claim on all global resources worth fighting for, and extract the greatest benefit for the Indian (at the expense of everyone else).

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India must waste no time in sanctioning a powerful parliamentary grouping with high fanfare, budget and authority to study, fund research and document/publicize human-right abuses, race-inequalities, institutionalized discrimination, religious-freedom abuses, illegitimate wars, illegal detentions, remote-control drone strikes, drugs-running, and all other criminalities and injustice that is practised under the guise of "exceptionalism" or "manifest destiny" that afflicts some countries, especially the US. This is the much needed "reverse gazing" that folks like Rajiv Malhotra talk about, and will do splendid wonders for India in the long run

This group should be given authority to shape Indian foreign policy, and also aim to subvert western thought to pro-Indian lines through co-opting their own raw underbellies. India must incubate its own Teestas, Arundhatis, Prashants, and Kejriwals in the US and other countries. It is a serious project and will take years (even decades) before it starts paying off for India. Do we have the stomach for this?

Indian sepoys must also be given the contempt that they deserve. They must be publicly-shamed and alienated by the motherland. The GoI must register a FIR in India against Preet whatever for the illegal extradition of Indian citizens facing court charges - If he refuses to appear in person in Indian court, an arrest warrant should be issued in his name - which will effectively make for a life-long ban on travel to India or it's satellite states for him.

Some US-based folks are confused and are posturing. This is not just about the bad treatment-meted to DK, or the arrogance of IFS folks. It is about India's place in the world, and will set a precedence for how India (and hence all "brown-skins") will be treated. The world is watching to see how much we will bend and another generation of Indians will pay the price. I say that, as unfortunate as the DK-incident is for those concerned, it is a positive development that will shatter many illusions and wake up the IFS and Indians-at-large.

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p.s. Devyanni must have our full support and sympathies at this time. She will be under severe pressure from all sides, including possibly her family members, to accept a plea bargain. Irrespective of her own personal guilt, or feelings, she must resist this as a true bharatiya.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Jan 2014 08:16

Devyani Khobragade row set to go all the way to the White House

The row between India and the United States over the Devyani Khobragade episode is set to go all the way up to the White House. Secretary of state John Kerry is due to meet President Obama on Wednesday evening, even as bureaucracies on both sides have dug in their heels, leading to an impasse in the bitter face-off that has become more toxic with each passing day.

It is clear that political intervention at the highest level will be needed to break the deadlock. The opening comes on Wednesday when the President and the secretary have their first meeting after they repaired for holidays before Christmas. President Obama returned from Hawaii on Monday by which time Kerry had left for the Middle East.

An interesting point in the report:

It was at the instance of the bureau of diplomatic security, primed by the US embassy in New Delhi, that the case was initiated against Devyani Khobragade, ignoring the diplomat's own legal initiative through courts in India to bring her housekeeper Sangeeta Richard, who was on the lam with an official Indian passport, to book.

So the Nai Dilli consulate is not as innocent as they are making out to be. Irrespective of what happens the person(s) who bought the tickets for the SR family must be brought to book.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2014 08:23

Para,the spearhead of US/Western attack against lesser powerful (eco and mil) nations is the "democracy-human" rights tactic. Instiutions like the ICJ is nothing but a kangaroo court where selected international "villains" can be tried like the Balkan Slavs ,as a sideshow that cinveniently ignores attention drawn to real villains like Tony B.Liar and Dubya Bush.BLiar has earned $70M last year in kickbacks for his support of the illegal Iraq war,where sh*tpot manufacturers and their like line his pockets with greenbacks for making appearances! BLiar gets put onto the boards of many MNCs without even having to attend meetings for fat director's fees. Even in Britain there is a groundswell of opinion that British laws should prevail instead of the European Court.This is what India should use to the max. in its spat with the US.If the US sticks to its guns,then we should throw the entire Indian Penal Code at their folk.Spending quality "time" in Tihar and elsewhere for its diplomats will soon bring the US down to its knees.

The Iranian hostage crisis that brought down Carter is an event that should now be seriously studied by our policy makers,how the US cracked in the end.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 09 Jan 2014 08:40

Energy sec's and Biswal's trips postponed! Either they are poking a stick in our eye or they decided nothing important can be done till this is resolved.

I'm no fan of DK but GoI should escalate this (by following up on the tax and school reports that were demanded) if this case is dragged any longer.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 09:03

The issue is very simple. DK has not murdered anybody, there is not even a case of ill-treatment of the maid. This issue need not have gone this far to the point of a setback in India-US relationship. The US has shown absolutely no urgency in resolving the matter and on the other hand justified its actions. So, from the moment the plan was launched, the US had been determined to take it to its logical conclusion without giving in to expected Indian pressure. It seems to me, therefore, that the State Department and the White House just want to prolong the issue too far by pretending to be seriously engaged on the matter and then claim that the Judge had already taken cognizance of the matter and therefore nothing could be done.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 09 Jan 2014 09:07

^^^^ Even we can play this game. I hope American diplomutts in desh have their imported KY jelly ready. And oh yes we won't be doing 1 for 1 arrest. Atleast 15 will be arrested. Heck we have stronger cases against each one of them than they will ever have against DK. If Indian courts take cognizance in SR case even GOI/MEA won't be able to do much. It could also lead to a lookout notice being issued against Nancy Powell. She may not be arrested but will find it difficult to travel. Same as Italian ambassador.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 09:10

Roperia wrote:Energy sec's and Biswal's trips postponed! Either they are poking a stick in our eye or they decided nothing important can be done till this is resolved.

India had already said clearly that this is not "business as usual". The visits by US officials should not have been announced in the first place.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2014 09:13

amit wrote: ...
So the Nai Dilli consulate is not as innocent as they are making out to be. Irrespective of what happens the person(s) who bought the tickets for the SR family must be brought to book.

Yup, it was the State Dept which initiated the whole thing. And the embassy in ND kept the GoI in the dark, and bought tickets for the Sangeeta's family. Those things wouldn't have happened without the ambassador's approval.

Once there is a resolution to this issue, India should ask Wendy Powell to leave, or not talk to her at all so that US will be forced to replace her.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 09 Jan 2014 09:13

Nandu wrote:U.S. judge denies request for delay in Indian diplomat case
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/ ... 5H20140109

This was to be expected. In normal trials, the judge is paid by the state, the prosecutor is paid by the state and the public defender is paid by the state. All work hand in glove to come up with pleas that send blacks, Asian and Hispanics to long prison sentences. More backward the County, more disproportionate is the sentence. That is the reason the prisons are full of minorities quite disproportionate ratio from the population. In the case of Dr K, there is a private lawyer, but Preet Bharwa and the judge will still work hand in hand. They will pressurize Dr. K to plead guilty for a lenient sentence. They will paint a picture such as ten years if she goes for a jury trial. Some will remember the trial of OJ Simpson. He got away by using a group of very successful lawyers called the Dream Team. I hope the MEA has employed successful lawyers to defend Dr K. Otherwise expect a very one sided judgement.
Gautam

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2014 09:14

No word on G-visa to Devyani

...
The unusual delay in granting Khobragade G-visa, which would prevent her from any further arrest, has raised the anxiety level among Indian officials as the next day of court hearing fast approaches in New York next week.

"We've received the paperwork. It's under review. I don't have any other details on it, or updates," State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki told reporters.

...

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 09 Jan 2014 09:19

^^^^ Gautam-sir, I think by now everyone realizes that it is no longer a matter of an individual. The matter was/is very well in the hands of the SD and they are acting duplicitous. There will be a payback for this. As regards further arrest, I have already said that if required DK should be shut up inside the Indian consulate in NY, if required for life. Bade Bade desho mein aisi chhoti chhoti baate hoti rehti hain. Shame on us if we can't prevent an arrest of one of our diplomats. If the US is not bothered in being nice then we should show the one finger salute to the US justice system also.