India-US Strategic News and Discussion

saip · Post by **saip** » 31 May 2014 23:20

Don't we all break laws when we know we can get away with it? Like driving at 60 in 55 mile zone. Like claiming donations in our tax forms. Like not informing change of address if you have green card (deportable offence).

saip · Post by **saip** » 31 May 2014 23:24

again with the "US citizenship is awesome, why would you not want it when it is given to you" thing. what exactly is being "deprived" here about a minor kid being a US citizen or not. everything is the same in everyday living. if after 18 years, she wants to become US citizen of her own choice as adult, let her get a visa or whatever and pursue this awesome citizenship.

Sorry Gus, I never said that. Do not read something into my comments which were not there. It neither awesome nor unwanted. Each to his own.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 31 May 2014 23:34

saip wrote:Don't we all break laws when we know we can get away with it? Like driving at 60 in 55 mile zone. Like claiming donations in our tax forms. Like not informing change of address if you have green card (deportable offence).

No.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 May 2014 23:50

Saip,

No don't break the laws.
I have given up the right to vote in USA to maintain my Indian Citizenship for decades now.

It reminds me nothing comes for free. That is how it should be.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 31 May 2014 23:56

Prasad wrote:
saip wrote:Don't we all break laws when we know we can get away with it? Like driving at 60 in 55 mile zone. Like claiming donations in our tax forms. Like not informing change of address if you have green card (deportable offence).
No.

60 in 55: Misdemeanor
Tax Fraud: Felony

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 00:29

Itar clearances can take up to (or is it upwards?) 2 years. In some areas of technology it is more than a generation.

In any case, there was a joke about about groups of people from different countries. For Americans it goes one American a small business, two Americans a partnership and three Americans a corporation. Even all these visa/PP laws are made to squeeze the max tax dollars and keep all the wealth in the country as well as funnel more from outside. And they have the muscle to enforce their writ at least in parts of the globe.

Just wanted to add: Nothing wrong in what US is doing. Most American citizens seem to like it. When force is used, then it becomes a question of justification, i.e. "just war" (which is a different topic and is being discussed bare on every media outlet).

If others have problems there is always scope for complaints and activism (IOW lobbying) which happens all the time and rules will be changed depending on relative leverages of the parties involved.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 01 Jun 2014 01:19

This may be helpful. It is directly from the official source, yet quite understandable. It underscores (and clearly explains) some of the items I, and others pointed out.

This is from US laws, and advice and may be helpful to those who travel in US... Hopefully what is required per us laws, dual passport issues etc, becomes a little clearer ..

From: http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/ ... ality.html

Print Email
Dual Nationality

Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals.

Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.

A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality. { This type of distinction, that is whether a person is volunteering acquiring other nationality or just getting it because of birth etc is done by most other countries even those who do not allow dual citizenship - including, IMO India, where it is clear that if you "become" an US citizen by naturalization, you are required to give up the Indian citizenship (and passport) (right away) - the part about a child born in US, is that (s)he is not volunteering choosing other country - BIG difference -- per Indian Laws, child has to decide by the age of 18 to renounce other citizenship) }

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

Information on losing foreign nationality can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. nationality in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

Hope this helps.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Jun 2014 01:25

Amber G. wrote:Surajji (Forum Moderator)–

I see that you have not made any comment on uncivil post made by Mr. Gus (“screw you and them”) yet are piling on by accusing me and my family member of breaking the law.

If you wish to provide feedback, please use the appropriate forum. Further continuation of the matter here will gain you a warning.

Amber G. wrote:
Suraj wrote:Amber G: what your family members have been able to do is factually illegal. This statement of yours is false:
You may have right to your opinion, but the above statement is offensive. Considering that you know close to zero(you obviously were not there) about events happened about 40 years ago, and obviously have even less understanding about the law, your judgment and slander is nothing short of disgraceful. I suggest you edit it -- if you don’t want to embarrass yourself further,

The quote stays. The fact remains that acquisition of a passport, either an Indian or a US one, constitutes a firm basis of citizenship. India does not permit a person to have dual citizenship, either 40 years ago, or today.

India offered a means to *delay* acquisition of formal citizenship until past 18. At that time, if they chose Indian citizenship, they had to formally renounce US citizenship as well. The US does not enable that for US born minors. If you are born in US, you are a US citizen until 18. You can get around that by only getting an Indian passport, but never traveling out of and back into US, which necessitates obtaining a US passport, and thereby making the fact that you hold an Indian passport too, a crime.

Therefore, anyone who obtained an Indian passport for a US-born minor was committing a crime, whether 40 years ago, or today. They faced no consequences because GoI chose not to prosecute them, not because it is legal. The OCI/PIO cards were created to give such minors, among others, more citizenship-like rights as ethnic Indians.

For those 40 years ago, the only valid option available was to get an Indian visa, NOT an Indian passport. If you got an Indian passport, you had to give up the US one. 'The consulate told me' does not address the most basic test of logic - one cannot have two passports when one of the two countries does not permit dual citizenship.

Did anyone back then ask 'wait a minute. India doesn't allow dual citizenship. how can I have two passports ?' Did anyone ask that ? Since you claim a consulate officer provided such advice, did anyone not ask such a simple counter question ? If so, what was the answer ? We'll all for a moment assume it's fine to go by one person's hearsay about this; just remember your claim flies in the face of known fact about dual citizenship for an Indian citizen.

None of us here are offended that someone had two passports 40 years ago. What does matter is the principle of dual citizenship, or the lack of it. Basic logic states that, despite any alleged claims by consular officials, anything suggesting one can hold two passports, is false. This isn't a recent matter; dual citizenship is disallowed in the constitution, i.e. as of Jan 26 1950.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Jun 2014 01:28

UlanBatori wrote:Interesting dynamics.

US trade rep is DEFENSE acquisitions guy, rather than Commerce Dept. Means SD is being shuttled aside to get things moving. Big Military-Industrial Complex showing its opinion of SD and Commerce gang.

This is interesting because the USUAL process for any exports is like:
1. Defense contractor company develops a system which India needs/wants
2. Defense contractor company conducts negotiations in competition with Oiropean, Roossian, French, Israeli, Australian, Somalian vendors.
3. Finally wins competition, US system picked.
4. Defense contractor company applies to SD for ITAR clearance,
5. Defense contractor company applies to Commerce Dept for clearance on other lists.
.....

6. Long delay...

7. Contract eventually goes to Swedish company who hires Italian arms trader to channel part of the payment through... (never mind).

8. Defense contractor company lays off 1000 workers.
***************************************************

Now it is more like Pakistani system. Direct Jarnail-to-Jarnail.

Note that elsewhere, US DoD has got hold of practically all US space launch bijnej requiring heavy lift/ manned flights as NASA becomes more and more ridiculous.

What next? Agriculture comes under DoD? Healthcare comes under DoD? Education already works best under DoD. Wasn't Georgia Washington a general? Seems like US is returning to basics.

I am not sure what you are writing about here. it is well known that in order to qualify for US AirForce launch bidness you've got to have the right connections. That's the reason why Spacex is suing the government over trhe sweetheart block purchase launch program with ULA. Other than SpaceX, the US companies such as ULA priced themselves out of the civilian launch bidness. Spacex has 50 civilan launches scheduled including the new iridium sats. Over $2 billion dollars worth of bidness. Unfortunately they are froze out by ULA for the Air Force bidness. I would point out that the Air Force has a larger space budget than NASA and the National Science Foundation in total. That's all programs.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Jun 2014 01:36

Madhusudhan wrote:Don't we all break laws when we know we can get away with it? Like driving at 60 in 55 mile zone. Like claiming donations in our tax forms. Like not informing change of address if you have green card (deportable offence).
No.

60 in 55: Misdemeanor
Tax Fraud: Felony

I dont care whether it is a felony or misdemeanor (or is it cognizable and non-cognizable in India) and if you drive an inch over 55 in 55 mile zone you broke the law.

Prasad: I do not know to which your 'no' applies to.

I broke the law at Taj when I claimed that I am an Indian to take advantage of Rs 30 ticket (instead of Rs 1200 ticket per head)!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Jun 2014 01:50

Its Indian Americans who win, but TSP, TSP Amercians, US elite who make policy towards India & TSP, WKKs, RNIs, etc will be pleased at this politically correct report

http://news.yahoo.com/teens-become-firs ... 13994.html

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 02:06

CRamS: I had an argument with my kid yesterday. She kept saying South Asia and I interrupted her and told her that it is a politically motivated name to decrease importance of India and there are several large countries in Asia (viz. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia) which are south of several countries of the Indian subcontinent including India) and the correct name is Indian Subcontinent to refer to people from the countries in Indian Subcontinent.

After that she got irritated and said "I don't want to talk to you". I had to go with a compromise that she can keep on referring to the region by the wrong name but I will keep on correcting her without going into the history and politics of why.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 01 Jun 2014 02:32

suraj,

I have no favorite animal in this fight so I step out with this -- the only people held in limbo by your intrepretation are children. I protest the american TSA fingering them, I protest any animosity by Indian immigration authorities. The debate above makes no sense to me. Indian children born in the US are not the "US".

good luck with the debate.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 01 Jun 2014 02:35

We need to equate these "SouthAsian" references to Hinduphobia .

After this connection gains traction in mainstream , SouthAsianism can be finally and deservingly equated to that all pervading rascism against Indians in the American govt (especially SD - as well demonstrated in the PACO affair).

In Briturdia Hindus and Sikhs have well fought off a similar (they were referred to as "Asian"s clubbed with Pakis BDs and the like) moniker.

SouthAsianism should similarly binned.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 01 Jun 2014 02:49

Shreeman wrote:
rajithn wrote:The verbal calisthenics that some people on this forum have indulged in, for what is essentially an illegal act, is very revealing.

If you swear allegiance to any other country, you automatically lose indian citizenship.
You are supposed to self declare this to the nearest consulate by sending them your indian passport with a reply paid envelope, within 90 days of renouncing/losing indian citizenship.

Period.

Any gymnastics that individuals have indulged in or continue to indulge in by holding on to both indian and other country passports, by providing fig leaves using a range of semantics, is illegal.

Period.
You are not allowed to swear anything until you are an adult. It is not just preventing children from watching movies. You can't vote. You can't swear. You can't perform surgery. And so on. You can't do pretty much anything other than letting your parents change your diapers. Your word is pretty much all gaaagaaa goooogooo until you are 18. You can't swear. Period. (see there is another period).

Now either your prevent all Indians from going to vilayat, or they WILL reproduce abroad. And they do. And then the US (or similar country's) constitution and its enforcers will not give two hoots about your postage-paid envelops to the Indian mission. Why in the world do you (as in those asking for a 1 day old baby to make its own decision) want to be cruel to your own children is beyond me.

If you are born to Indian parents abroad, in a country that grants citizenship by birth (and not lineage), then you are born with dual citizenship. And you can't discard one until your word is accepted as an adult's informed decision. A travel document (or travel of any sort) does not change either country's constitution.

Your parents can not deprive you of a birth right. So they can send in all the letters they like, when you turn 18 you can turn right back and apply for whatever passport you like. There is no gymnastics here, its shameful populism on full display that there is NO right way to travel if you are so unfortunate and NOBODY cares to fix it.

Points very well made. Thanks.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Jun 2014 02:59

Shreeman, I concur.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 04:47

I think Shreeman nailed the issue. It still does not preclude the possibility of lobbying by the affected parties. That said, we (as in Indian-Americans) would want our tribe to grow here in US. I don't find anything wrong in calling a spade a spade, i.e. praise what is good in US and criticize (constructively, if I may add) what is bad rather than paint either a completely rosy picture or a completely gloomy one. Neither of the extremes is true, at least for now and at least for Indian-Americans or the other set I belong to - Hindu Americans. Some amount of racism and xenophobia is inevitable. We have to see in the coming years (when American power is reduced relatively speaking with the rise of China and possibly India) whether it is going to decrease, stay the same, or increase. Personally speaking, the die is cast and I have to live with my decision.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Jun 2014 05:00

Shreeman wrote:I have no favorite animal in this fight so I step out with this -- the only people held in limbo by your intrepretation are children. I protest the american TSA fingering them, I protest any animosity by Indian immigration authorities. The debate above makes no sense to me. Indian children born in the US are not the "US".

Oh I completely recognize the problem. I'm just pointing out the illegality surrounding the 2 passports issue. It has been 'possible' because one government chose not to make an issue of it. Dual citizenship (for all or just for minors born in jus soli states) is one option. Another is for the parent to decide one citizenship for the child, rather than for a country to impose it on the basis of birthplace.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Jun 2014 05:08

Shreeman wrote: Indian children born in the US are not the "US".

I don't agree with this. The USA gets to set laws in USA just as India gets to set laws in India.

If you had your child in USA you used a USA system to have the birth. Hospitals, freeways, ambulance, doctors, birth certificate, etc. etc. You can always have the child in India for a $2,000 flight ticket. $4,000 if to make sure both parents are there. I know a couple who did this many years ago.

Don't mix the 2 up. In USA you follow USA law, India you follow Indian law. No complications.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Jun 2014 06:07

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Shreeman wrote: Indian children born in the US are not the "US".
I don't agree with this. The USA gets to set laws in USA just as India gets to set laws in India.

If you had your child in USA you used a USA system to have the birth. Hospitals, freeways, ambulance, doctors, birth certificate, etc. etc. You can always have the child in India for a $2,000 flight ticket. $4,000 if to make sure both parents are there. I know a couple who did this many years ago.

Don't mix the 2 up. In USA you follow USA law, India you follow Indian law. No complications.

I think he means culturally and emotionally. We've had to hunt down a couple of jehadis born in the US but in practice we're not US. They got the drone and the hellfire. Good riddance to bad trash. The US is looking for more.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Jun 2014 07:07

A "top" US diplodocus is to visit India shortly. It would be interesting to see the results of her visit,and the success of the tactic of sending a diplomat of Indian origin,supposedly the "point person" for the region (does anyone buy that?).What it does underscore is that with O'Bomber's military retreat on the global stage,the US needs India more securitywise to counter China than India needs it!

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... xt-week/[b]
Top US diplomat to travel to India next week[/b]
Press Trust of India | Washington | May 31, 2014

Nisha Desai Biswal, the Obama administration’s point person for South and Central Asia, will travel to India next week to hold talks with officials of the new government on a series of bilateral and regional issues.

Biswal, the Assistant Secretary of State for South and Central Asia, would be in New Delhi from June 6 to 9, the State Department said on Friday.
This would be the first visit of a top American diplomat to India after Narendra Modi was sworn in as the country’s Prime Minister this week.
During her visit, the State Department said, Biswal will meet with a range of officials in the new Government to review the full scope of bilateral and regional issues.

“This will be the first visit to India by a senior State Department official since India’s national elections this spring. While in New Delhi, Assistant Secretary Biswal will also meet with key strategic thinkers and business leaders,” the State Department said.

Biswal would reach New Delhi from Beijing, where she would be travelling from June 4-6.

During her Beijing stay, Biswal would meet a range of Chinese government officials to engage in regional consultations, including economic engagement and connectivity.

While in Beijing Biswal will also meet with scholars and think tank representatives to discuss opportunities for regional trade linkages along the New Silk Road and the Indo-Pacific Economic Corridor, the statement said.

She will start her travel from Dushanbe, Tajikistan, June 2-3 to lead the US delegation to the third session of the US-Tajikistan Annual Bilateral Consultations.

In Dushanbe, she will meet with senior Tajikistani officials and political leaders, civil society and youth representatives, and officials from international organizations.

Chinese aggro in Asia destabilising ,says the US.And so say all of us.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... tary-warns

China is destabilising south-east Asia, US defence secretary says

• Chuck Hagel says US will not ignore from Beijing's actions
• Chinese general says 'criticisms are groundless'
• Washington pledges to support uneasy allies, including Japan

theguardian.com, Saturday 31 May 2014
US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, left, listens to Lt. Gen. Wang Guanzhong, of China US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel with Lieutenant General Wang Guanzhong, of China. Photograph: Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP

China's aggressive moves to claim jurisdiction over land and sky in the Asia-Pacific risk undermining peace and security in the region and beyond, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Saturday. Beijing scoffed as the "groundless" charges.

Hagel told an international security conference that the US "will not look the other way" when China and others try to restrict navigation or ignore international rules and standards.

Chin's territorial claims in the South China Sea are destabilising the region, he said, adding that Beijing's failure to resolve such disputes threatens East Asia's long-term progress.

A Chinese general took issue with Hagel's comments, saying that "although I do think that those criticisms are groundless, I do appreciate your candor."
china vietnam A Vietnamese boat sank after being rammed by Chinese vessels near disputed islands last week. Photograph: Reuters

Lieutenant General Wang Guanzhong, deputy chief of the general staff, told Hagel during a brief meeting after the defense secretary's speech: "You were very candid this morning and, to be frank, more than our expectation."

Reporters were taken from the meeting room before Hagel responded. But the Pentagon press secretary, Rear Admiral John Kirby, said Hagel told Wang all regional disputes should be solved through diplomacy, and encouraged China to foster dialogue with neighbouring nations.

As he did in 2013, Hagel used his appearance at the Shangri-La conference to single out China for cyberspying against the US. While this has been a persistent complaint, his remarks came less than two weeks after the Obama administration charged five Chinese military officers with hacking into American companies to steal trade secrets.

The Chinese, in response, suspended participation in a US-China Cyber Working Group, and released a report that said the US is conducting "unscrupulous" cyber-espionage and that China is a major target.

Noting the suspension, Hagel said the US will continue to raise cyber issues with the Chinese, "because dialogue is essential for reducing the risk of miscalculation and escalation in cyberspace".

In comments aimed directly at China, Hagel said the US opposes any country's use of intimidation or threat of force to assert territorial claims.

"All nations of the region, including China, have a choice: to unite, and recommit to a stable regional order, or, to walk away from that commitment and risk the peace and security that has benefited millions of people throughout the Asia-Pacific, and billions of people around the world," he said.

China and Japan have been at odds over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea that are controlled by Japan but claimed by both.

The US has declined to take sides, but has made clear it has a treaty obligation to support Japan. The US also has refused to recognize China's declaration of an air defense zone over a large swath of the East China Sea, including the disputed islands.

In response, Major General Yao Yunzhu of China's People's Liberation Army questioned whether the US and its allies followed international law and consulted with others whey they set up air defence zones.

Yao, director of the Center for China-America Defense Relations at the PLA's Academy of Military Science, also challenged how the US can say it is not taking a position on the island sovereignty issue, while still saying it is committed to its treaty obligation to support Japan.

Hagel said the US and allies consulted with its neighbours and, unlike China, did not unilaterally set up air defence zones.

While the two public exchanges with the Chinese officials were sharp, a senior US defence official described Hagel's private meeting with Wang as fairly amicable.

The official, who was not authorized to discuss the meeting publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said Wang began by criticising the speech, but also talked about increasing military cooperation with the US and the two nations' trade relationship.
Senkaku islands The Senkaku islands have been subject of a heated dispute between China and Japan. Photograph: Kyodo/Reuters

The official said Wang indicated China was looking forward to participating in a major military exercise in the Pacific with the US and other nations later this year.

US officials also have raised concerns about Beijing's decision to place an oil rig in part of the South China Sea also claimed by Vietnam. The move has led to a series of clashes between the two nations in the waters around the rig, including the recent sinking of a Vietnamese fishing boat.

Chinese leaders have blamed the Obama administration's new focus on Asia for emboldening some of the disputes.

But some Asian leaders have expressed worries that the US is doing little more than paying lip service to the complaints, fueling doubts about America's commitment to the region.

In an effort to address those concerns, Hagel also used his speech to reassure Asia-Pacific nations that despite persistent budget woes and increasing demands for military aid across Africa and Europe, the US was strongly committed to Asia.

Allies have questioned how serious the US is about its renewed focus on Asia, particularly as the recent unrest in Ukraine and terrorist threats in North Africa have garnered more attention. Also, President Barack Obama's national security speech this past week made no mention of the Asia-Pacific.

"The rebalance is not a goal, not a promise or a vision – it is a reality," Hagel said.

He laid out a list of moves the US has made to increase troops, ships and military assets in the region, provide missile defense systems to Japan, sell sophisticated drones and other aircraft to Korea, and expand defense cooperation with Australia, New Zealand and India.

The manner in which the Modi govt. is going to tackle the Chinese Indo-China Sea gambit is going to be most interesting.The visit of the Chinese premier is on the cards and one will wait and see what happens after that visit to detect the direction of the NDA-2's foreign policy on that score.What is sure is that India will hold in its hand a clutch of close ties with many of China's enemies/rivals in Asia as a counter to China's support to Pak.If China can operate a naval base at Gwadar,so too can India operate one in Vietnam.Time to speak softly with China and carry both sticks and carrots.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Jun 2014 07:18

Nisha Desai Biswal, the Obama administration’s point person for South and Central Asia, will travel to India next week to hold talks with officials of the new government on a series of bilateral and regional issues.

Hasn't the mat been pulled from under Biswal, by the appt of Hagel's crony (DoD procurement expert) as chief trade person to strike deals with India? Now Biswal just comes across as the old discredited SD bullies with their "South Asia" Imperial snake oil. She might as well cancel her trip again as she had to do in January.

Modi should delegate some junior flunky from his A'bad team to buy her a pack of deep-fried peanuts and a Limca and some Pepto-Bismol to go with those.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 01 Jun 2014 07:32

TSJones wrote:
I think he means culturally and emotionally. We've had to hunt down a couple of jehadis born in the US but in practice we're not US. They got the drone and the hellfire. Good riddance to bad trash. The US is looking for more.

even so, emotionally there are a huge number of people with strong ties and allegiance to the old country.

the US deep police state keeps any dissident-like tendencies in check.

lots of trash then tsjones. millions of Hellfires to be potentially used in mainland USA ?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 01 Jun 2014 08:08

mahadevbhu wrote:
TSJones wrote:
I think he means culturally and emotionally. We've had to hunt down a couple of jehadis born in the US but in practice we're not US. They got the drone and the hellfire. Good riddance to bad trash. The US is looking for more.
even so, emotionally there are a huge number of people with strong ties and allegiance to the old country.

the US deep police state keeps any dissident-like tendencies in check.

lots of trash then tsjones. millions of Hellfires to be potentially used in mainland USA ?

I'll let Abraham Lincoln's decisions in the civil war be my example of thought on the subject. "it will be all one thing or it will be nothing."

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Jun 2014 08:23

The US asst sec for Trade - Nina is vising India in a week and she is expected to meet SS and NM.

Why such top Indian leaders are meeting a low level scum from US. No protocal what so ever???

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Jun 2014 09:27

If the shoe was on the other foot - if India says that kids born to Indian citizens anywhere in the world are by default Indian citizens (until they become adults and renounce) and that the minor needs to have Indian passport to enter India - all you amirkhan citizens and wannabes who travel with family yearly to India - would be throwing a hissy fit here about how stupid and unreasonable and burdensome this requirement is.

I mean I used to roll my eyes at the MUTU word thrown around casually here ..but dear god some people are just truly MUTU even when they think they are bharat rakshaks...such is the power of massa I guess..

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Jun 2014 09:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:
If you had your child in USA you used a USA system to have the birth. Hospitals, freeways, ambulance, doctors, birth certificate, etc. etc.

One pays taxes for that, no?

Reg going to India for birthing - you need to include time offs and paying for insurance here vs out of pocket there and the whole risk factor of traveling while pregnant and traveling with newborn etc.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 01 Jun 2014 09:34

Narayana Rao wrote:The US asst sec for Trade - Nina is vising India in a week and she is expected to meet SS and NM.

Why such top Indian leaders are meeting a low level scum from US. No protocal what so ever???

There is nothing wrong in head of state meeting special representatives who carry a specific message from their head of state. I can recall US President Kennedy meeting Nehru's special ambassador and having substantial discussions. One ofcourse would need to ensure that it is a special case and not a regular happening.

Besides, I think the use of the word 'scum' is uncalled for. It is highly probable that this forum is read by many in the media and sometimes the very people we discuss about. One way to keep the forum's reputation and individual poster's reputation would be to avoid unnecessary harsh words or name calling. Few days ago someone used a derogatory feline term to a US author whose book we were discussing. It was in very poor taste and we would unnecessarily be antagonizing or hurting people for no reason. Bad Karma if you ask me!

habal · Post by **habal** » 01 Jun 2014 10:29

It was Indira Gandhi who set this protocol precedent in motion, successive folks grovelled before whoever came. Indira was the last of the independent-minded leadership.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 10:36

habal · Post by **habal** » 01 Jun 2014 10:49

By the time PV came into power, we had already lost our fiscal independence. He had to appoint WB/IMF nominee as finmin. So from then on the whole concept of independent leadership had become meaningless.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Jun 2014 10:57

IG was certainly one tough lady. It was she who stopped export of rhesus macaque for research to the west ni general and to the US in particular saying that it is worthwhile save these animals from torture and cruelty in the name of advancing science. If India a few dollars in foreign exchange so be it.

Chandrasekhar · Post by **Chandrasekhar** » 01 Jun 2014 11:56

A joint secy in MEA should tell Ms Biswal that the new government wants to deal with Uncle Sam, not Uncle Tom.

India should cultivate the diaspora in private sector, but avoid those in the government.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Jun 2014 12:07

Nisha Biswal to Visit New Delhi - The Hindu

Although the State Department said Ms. Biswal would meet “a range of officials” in Narendra Modi’s administration, there was no mention of any plan to meet the Prime Minister himself.

There is no need for the PM to meet her unless and until she was carrying a personal message from Obama. We should not go back to the old ways of pampering American officials. Had enough of that. It must be strict protocol & reciprocity.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Jun 2014 12:33

Gus,

Whats with the name calling and the random throwing around of terms.

Yes if India decided to have citizenship by birth the rest of the world will deal with it. Has it ever been otherwise. No one has thrown a hissy fit over all the visa requirement pio/oci go through. We complain about the visa consulates sure but folks follow visa rules to the T. But we know why India does not have citizenship by birth don't we. One word. Bangladesh.

And no, you don't have to pay taxes to have a child in USA. It is required by law that all are treated. I know one couple on H1B recently who had a 23 week premie. There is no chance the child would have survived in India. USA system paid to helicopter medivac the kid, and 6 months of NICU. And years of therapy to rear the kid who is now doing fine. $ 1 Million + has been spent.

And you can't have it both ways. You want sentiment but don't want to spend $4000 to back up your sentiment. Too close to the takleef. And yet America is willing to spend through its nose to defend its citizens.

You make an American parents child India citizen, be prepared to spend like America to save the child as well.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 01 Jun 2014 12:36

The great prosecutor Mr. Preet Behara speaketh at Harvard, says he is upset over the "stupid" criticism over La Affaire Khobragade!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 888112.cms

Poor fellow he claims he was doing what was told and nothing more! It was all US State Department operation all the way!!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Jun 2014 12:59

TSJones wrote: Good riddance to bad trash. The US is looking for more.

Oh then you have to empty US barring "Indians".

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Jun 2014 13:08

schinnas wrote:
Narayana Rao wrote:The US asst sec for Trade - Nina is vising India in a week and she is expected to meet SS and NM.

Why such top Indian leaders are meeting a low level scum from US. No protocal what so ever???
There is nothing wrong in head of state meeting special representatives who carry a specific message from their head of state. I can recall US President Kennedy meeting Nehru's special ambassador and having substantial discussions. One ofcourse would need to ensure that it is a special case and not a regular happening.

Besides, I think the use of the word 'scum' is uncalled for. It is highly probable that this forum is read by many in the media and sometimes the very people we discuss about. One way to keep the forum's reputation and individual poster's reputation would be to avoid unnecessary harsh words or name calling. Few days ago someone used a derogatory feline term to a US author whose book we were discussing. It was in very poor taste and we would unnecessarily be antagonizing or hurting people for no reason. Bad Karma if you ask me!

The conduct of US SD officials towards Indian comparing them with their Dogs is OK then??? As per the reports here in India, huge section of SD is bent on teaching a lesson for India due to trade disputes and Devyani matter is a result of that and the conduct of US officials trying to pressure Indian in BDesh elections recently? Arresting a minor girl child of our counsel staff and keeping her in Jail and contending that she does not have any protection is ok. That girl has to pee in her cell as she was not allowed to go to bathroom. SD under Hillary tried actively influence Indian elections and a decade long attack on NM was conducted by SD to "get Modi". All this is well known in India.
US SD and its officials have zero respect here in India. ZERO. They have to now earn it by their conduct. With all this, Scum is a very mild word for anyone from US SD. By the way most of the world including people in EU nations thinks them in same terms.

By the way Millions of Hindus were killed and Hindu women in their hundreds of thousands raped in US supported action of Paki army in Bdesh in 1971. We have not forgotten that also. Just see how India is shown most of times in News and other media in US. Is it not openly insulting to India most of the times?

US officals coming to India may thing they are gracing India by their Pada dhuli. We don't.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Jun 2014 13:13

SSridhar wrote:Nisha Biswal to Visit New Delhi - The Hindu
Although the State Department said Ms. Biswal would meet “a range of officials” in Narendra Modi’s administration, there was no mention of any plan to meet the Prime Minister himself.
There is no need for the PM to meet her unless and until she was carrying a personal message from Obama. We should not go back to the old ways of pampering American officials. Had enough of that. It must be strict protocol & reciprocity.

Please tweet/post on PMO/MEA facebook/twitter accounts, fwiw

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Jun 2014 13:17

Raja Ram wrote:The great prosecutor Mr. Preet Behara speaketh at Harvard, says he is upset over the "stupid" criticism over La Affaire Khobragade!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 888112.cms

Poor fellow he claims he was doing what was told and nothing more! It was all US State Department operation all the way!!

And some people still take offense at the SD folks being called scum

SD should be shown its place. Do like they do, all smiles in front of them, and pull rug under their feet when required