India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Nandu
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Nandu » 12 Aug 2011 03:13

CRamS, I predict that there will be no racially tinged attack on him in the mainstream media or amongst South Asia Experts. Twiteratti and Pakis excluded.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 12 Aug 2011 08:58

US President's award for blind foundation workershttp://www.rediff.com/news/report/us-presidents-award-for-blind-foundation-workers/20110811.htm

The Blind Foundation of India's [ Images ] founding director Dr Manu Vora and many of the organisation's volunteers received the United States President's Volunteer Service Award. Vora and his wife Dr Nila Vora received the award for Lifetime Service given to those who do 4,000 hours of service.
Since 1989, the foundation has raised over $3.5 million to serve over 15 million blind people in India. The BFI has supported 100,000 free cataract operations, donated 96 mobile vans, distributed 10,000 Braille kits to blind children, performed eyesight checkup for over a million people and completed child sight projects for over 400,000 school-aged children. Through the BFI's efforts in India, over a million people got their eyes checked.
"After losing my parents at an early age of 4 (mother) and 6 (father), I have been fortunate to receive help from my immediate family members and friends," Manu Vora said. "Since god almighty has looked after me during my need, I firmly believe that I should make every effort to help others in need."He also volunteered for the American Society for Quality, ASQ-NIQC, Save The Children Holiday Fund Drive at AT&T Bell laboratories, the GOSUMEC foundation, 4A, and Pratham's Chicago chapter, where he served as a president in 2009. Dr Nila Vora, a BFI adviser, has also volunteered for IDS and the GOSUMEC Foundation.


shyamd
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby shyamd » 12 Aug 2011 18:24

State Dept issued remarks on India's handling of protests. MEA just issued a response. Something seems to be terribly bad with India - US relations all of a sudden. Mullen visit to PRC all talking about nptee. MMS cancelling visit to Sydney. PRC conducting ops near Rajasthan border. Something is up.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby devesh » 13 Aug 2011 00:27

situation is becoming very fluid. there is news of Turkey preparing for an invasion of Syria; while PRC and Pak are conducting war games near Pakistan border. is MoD paying attention. MMS, MEA, IFS, MOD, and Home Ministry should be having 1000 Watt alarm bells ringing by now in their offices....

abhishek_sharma
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 13 Aug 2011 07:35

Five big uncertainties

1. The World Economy: Meltdown or Malaise? ...

2. Can the United States Pull Off a Strategic Adjustment? ...

3. Whither China? ...

4. The European Union: Pulling Together or Spinning Apart? ...

5. The Middle East: Up with the People or Up in Flames? ...


x-post

ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 13 Aug 2011 09:50

abhshek, Thanks for all the articles you post. Very much appreciated.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sriman » 13 Aug 2011 11:20


So, to sum up Richard Clarke thinks CIA tried to recruit two suspected Al Qaeda terrorists and therefore held back that information when they entered US. I think that's a fair enough assumption to make. In hindsight it is a major screw up but to ascribe malfeasant behaviour is harsh IMO (and i don't think Clarke is doing that but it'll get twisted differently by the conspiracy theorists). I doubt the CIA had any information at that point that those two were part of a much bigger conspiracy at that point. It might seem like a case of the agency taking reckless risks but treating intelligence work like policing has its downsides as well.

On their part, the CIA Bin Laden unit had requested permission to take Bin Laden out on multiple occasions using cruise missiles or Afghan mercenaries but were turned down by the Clinton administration (under whom Clarke was the counterterrorism czar). The administration also dithered in going after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan by propping up Massoud. Without boots on the ground to manage sources, they had absolutely no idea what Bin Laden was up to (Pakis obviously would have given them zilch). So in a way you could probably see why CIA took the chance. Richard Clarke has a valid point however that this should have been brought up during the investigation. This is clearly a case of systemic failure and i think there are lessons for us as well.

tidbit: Cofer Black had a personal grudge against Al Qaeda (he was targetted for assasination when he was Khartoum station chief). So it wasn't like either him or the Bin Laden unit were going easy on Al Qaeda. On the contrary the Bin Laden unit members were nicknamed as 'Manson Family' for their cult like obsession about Al Qaeda and the threat posed by it.

PS: Mods, if this is OT let me know. Wasn't sure where to respond to this.

sum
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Aug 2011 13:15

US diplomat's remark sparks controversy

Ms Maureen Chao, the newly-appointed Vice Consul of the US Consulate in Chennai, today found herself in the eye of controversy when she made a purportedly racial comment against Tamils.


she had the audience in splits when she narrated her experience when she sought to exchange her lower berth for a upper berth with a passenger and said when she came out of the train, her skin got dusty and dirty. After a pause, she said, I was looking like a Tamilian , throwing herself into a veritable controversy

How does a diplomat manage to ram her foot so deep down her mouth? :-? :-?

uddu
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby uddu » 13 Aug 2011 16:27

WebIndia123: "I was looking like a Tamilian "
WebIndia123.com has twisted the words completely just to make it a lighter one.
Here is the correct version.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/us-diplomat- ... 0-118.html
But, after 72 hours, the train still didn’t reach the destination.... and my skin became dirty and dark, like the Tamilians.”
:evil:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Airavat » 13 Aug 2011 17:09

This is exactly like the racist "blackface" from American cinematic history, where whites painted their faces black to portray a ridiculous stereotype of African-Americans.

Does this foolish woman think any Tamilian would mistake her for anything other than a foul smelling tourist? Does the monumental moron think there is only one skin hue in TN?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Abhi_G » 14 Aug 2011 08:35

This woman is a Govt. of US representative and she has the temerity of insulting the audience in a foreign country that is hosting her. Such arrogance does not come without "state" encouragement and she knows that she can go scot-free. Would MEA ask for a recall of this diplomat back to the US? Or political correctness and infinite tolerance of every BS is our badge of honour? All of this is due to the GoI's cultivation of an image of infinite tolerance of everything under the sun as the nature of Indians/Hindus. Everything is expendable in India, honour, land, people......as long as the dienasty is safe. And yes TVs are full of ads pf Pond's "white beauty" facewash. I am really aghast with the level of intellectual degradation amongst ourselves. How can we accept insults like these for some dollars?

/end of impotent rage


sum
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sum » 14 Aug 2011 13:35

All of this is due to the GoI's cultivation of an image of infinite tolerance of everything under the sun as the nature of Indians/Hindus. Everything is expendable in India, honour, land, people......as long as the dienasty is safe.

My only dream is that one day, everything related to India and its honour is treated with the same respect and seriousness as anything related to the 2G khandaan..

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 14 Aug 2011 14:18

When "Fair and Lovely" Hillary comes-a-calling,the mandarins of the MEA and parasites of the PMO prostrate themselves in syrupy,grovelling welcomes befitting behaviour reminiscent of colonial serfs and flunkeys as if India is a vassal state.I do not think that Condy Rice recd. the same sort of welcome that her successor received.It was just recemntly that an Indian actress (?) remarked that Bollywood stars/starlets were obsessed with the colour (fairness factor) of their skin.We spent a couple of centuries in thrall and servility of the white man and the inferiority complex of some,especially those in high places lives on.

Sadly,the aging gerontocracy of the Indian power elite and their babus in company,belong to the pre-Independence generation,not the prseent genration of young Indians, and as we mark another Independence Day,we should ask ourselves very seriously that iot is long past time to RID ourselves of these mentally flatulant,obese parasites who are delivering our proud nation back into servituide and serfdom like Dr.Scam and his govt.

Therefore,when an ignorarmus,racist,dumb bimbo,a rep. of the US State Dept.,a high official of the rank of Dy.Consul that too makes these racist remarks and passes them off as a joke,our govt. instead of expelling her ,meekly asks for a mere apology.How would the US like it if an Indian diplomat used the same language to describe Afro-Americans? However,this is the truth.The bimbo was uttering publicly what US diplomats think in private.India for them is still a land of dark-skinnned "Injuns",filled with snake-charmers,fakirs,the Taj Mahal,a few remaining tigers,and now a land stealing US jobs thanks to "Bangalore",that needs to be put in itsv place,obey the Pax Americana and behave like Pakitsan once used to.Having problems with its rent-boy Pak,Uncle Sam now wants India to replace Pak as rent-boy of the siubcontinent.In "Uncle Scam",Dr.MM Singh,Uncle Sam has found the right individual!

JE Menon
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 14 Aug 2011 15:20

>>everything related to India and its honour is treated with the same respect and seriousness..

By whom?

Mort Walker
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 15 Aug 2011 07:56

US Apologies for 'dirty' Indians Comment

The story has been picked up by the right wing Drudge Report. The comments are interesting.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 15 Aug 2011 08:33

The diplomat's comments are disgusting, but to me, what hurt more is this


What’s worse, the remark was met with cheers and claps from the students, many of whom were from northern states of the country.



First we need shame those students who cheered her remarks, and infuse some sense of nationalism in them.

abhishek_sharma
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby abhishek_sharma » 15 Aug 2011 08:44

^ could be the fertile imagination of the reporter.

vera_k
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vera_k » 15 Aug 2011 08:51

If these proceedings were taped, it should be possible to identify the students who clapped at the remark. The least that should happen is that they get a warning, or be made to do some community service. There are plenty of rural schools who could use some help getting functional toilets or playgrounds free of rocks and bushes.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rangudu » 15 Aug 2011 08:59

Is this "diplomat" isn't declared PNG and forced to get out of India, then shame on MEA and our so called leadership.

Satya_anveshi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 15 Aug 2011 09:27

Philip wrote:How would the US like it if an Indian diplomat used the same language to describe Afro-Americans?

Philip ji, however much I relish all your posts but the above comment is not the right comparison nor the best way to rebut. Your post would be valuable without the above comment.

Pl folks spread this news far and wide - that is the best way to bring pressure. If we make her PNG (hopefully) it will be a matter of historical record so even better.

Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 15 Aug 2011 10:41

Satya,I asked a simple question.How indeed would the US react if a foreign diplomat described its own people (in this case Afro-Ams) in similar fashion? What action would the State Dept. take? There was no respect to any ethnic group in the US whatsoever. There have been many celebrated cases of diplomats being expelled/recalled by their country before on several issues both by the east and west,espionage being the most common.What action has the GOI done though? The least would be to demand recall of the bimbo.

sum
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sum » 15 Aug 2011 13:35

JE Menon wrote:>>everything related to India and its honour is treated with the same respect and seriousness..

By whom?

By MEA and our ruling "elite", esp "i am ashamed to be Indian" baba-ji

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Abhi_G » 15 Aug 2011 16:26

Once "dogs and Indians were not allowed in a club" in Chattagram. The Indians there did not take that grovelling. Now Indians are insulted on their own soil - their skin colours are referred to as dirty, even though that is the natural hue for Indians. And not a squeak from the "independent" GoI.

Lalmohan
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Aug 2011 17:03

the meaning of the sentence changes if there is a comma inserted between "dirty" and "dark" - or a pause if spoken
someone who has spent so much time in india, that too from a country where racial political correctness is so important, is likely to have been fairly careful with making an obvious racist remark

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby rajanb » 15 Aug 2011 17:32

I think that India and the US are today in a state of relationship where we agree to disagree when we must.

That we continue to try and be independent in our thinking and our inerpretation of events worldwide, but more importantly, in our neighbourhood, is definitely the path for us to follow.

It isn't that the US is not mature; or not capable. Far from it. In the background of their current economic scenario, and the fact that their "ally" against terrorism has been shafting them, they are at a crossroad, where they have to recast their policies. Which means change. And we all know that change, though the only constant in the world, is a factor that meets resistance.

Not that they didn't know that the Paquis were shafting them, but clung to the stupid hope that it was a slight aberration, brought about by the dynamics within Pakistan.

They definitely have tested our willingness to help them. But here comes the rub. They have been so used to poodles, that our warm reception has been found wanting, by alas, we maintaing our independent thinking.

The US has to realise that the change they have to effect within themselves is to accept their current economic scenario by tightening their belts and not take for granted, so many goodies they have taken for granted over the decades. The second change, if they mean when they say that we are "natural allies" is to appreciate that the word "ally" does not equate to poodle. And the third change, is to finally come to terms with the Pakistan that they have helped nurture and start using the stick more than the carrot.

So wee bits of friction are going to exist with the US, but I would think, that the US is grappling with the above, a bit confused, but in the process of change.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 15 Aug 2011 17:42

a friend of mine went to a tier-4 univ somewhere in south dakota. told me in their univs job fair the SD had come and set a booth, and even there nobody was flocking to that booth. so SD does not get the sharpest tools in the shed...but such is the US training, rote learning, booklets, process orientation that even that SD is worked into shape to atleast give a superficial impression of tftaness and overawe third world audiences and govts.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby brihaspati » 15 Aug 2011 17:57

Abhi_G wrote:Once "dogs and Indians were not allowed in a club" in Chattagram. The Indians there did not take that grovelling. Now Indians are insulted on their own soil - their skin colours are referred to as dirty, even though that is the natural hue for Indians. And not a squeak from the "independent" GoI.


The GOI is simply showing how mature India is. The Chattagram episode you hint at should show that the GOI is being consistent. The same political heritage that had condemned the method of "not taking it lying down" at the Chittagong European club, had also colluded with Chattagram's punishment for being rebellious against the Brits outside of congrez overlordship.

A mature India ignores such pin-pricks especially if it does not directly affect the H&D of the dynasty and the immediate coterie. In return India gets immense benefits of having US rashtryia and political support for such immensely nationally beneficial issues as confirming the guilt of Indian politicians - such as a certain chief minister of an immensely successful "state" - successful against the wishes of congrez - before any trial.

The casual passing of such remarks and non-reaction from GOI or even political parties if it is sooo embarrassing for GOI for diplomatic reasons to open their hallowed mouths - shows that the rashtryia character of US state, people and structural beliefs embedded in the system - has changed nothing from decades of racist constructs, even if individuals genuinely or politically tried to show otherwise to the external world.

There is a vast difference between the ordinary American - in spite of religiously reconstructed fanaticism about race coresident with a wide diversity of opinions and political undercurrents across the spectrum of liberalism - and how the political and rashtryia machinery filters, modifies, and shapes functionaries. Any fanatical zeal for absolute dominance of the world and consumption of its resources in every possible sense of biological enjoyment - needs immense psychological aberrations, most often a self-justification by racial and religious superiority constructions.

Those who attribute pure monetary profit motives onlee behind the American state machine, fail to see the psychological supporting machinery needed to keep this up - that of racial and religious extreme prejudice - repressed from expression out of diplomatic and tactical considerations, but inseparable from a thirst for extreme power and extreme consumption. From this separate entity of state machinery - the ordinary Indian cannot and should not expect any genuine non-racist and non-religious-bias treatment. Anything otherwise comes out of current tactical considerations and is a pretension.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 15 Aug 2011 18:02

Just throw the goddamn woman out of India. Are we going dwell on such idiots so long, playing the "should we, should we not" game! Declare her PNG and be done with it!

She can regret all she wants, when she is sent home packing! Her entire life in State Dept. she would have been marked with the ignominy of having been kicked out of India because of a racist slur, which is another way of saying, she is a dumb bimbo, no brains! Nobody respects dumb bimbos, and she would never recover from it!

So off she should go!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Aug 2011 21:28


Cosmo_R
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 Aug 2011 03:29

This may sound off topic in this thread but it is IMHO relevant. I ask that readers have the patience to read through the implications.

http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_new ... r-to-china


Gary Locke (Chinese-American) has been appointed US Ambassador to PRC. See how the Chinese react:

"That Locke is here to represent the U.S. government was asserted repeatedly during his interaction with the Beijing press corps—suggesting that his audience in China should be wary of confusing his ethnicity with his nationality.

After all, this is a country where ethnic Chinese are often considered Chinese first and foremost--no matter where they were born or raised. (In fact, your correspondent has lost count how many times the question of "loyalty to the motherland" comes up at sensitive times dealing with government officials.)

Locke’s status as an ABC (American-born Chinese) could add an interesting dimension to his posting, but let’s just hope it doesn’t detract from the real work that needs to be done between Washington and Beijing."

I have noticed over the last 10 years (1999-2001 this sentiment was not there) or so on that BRFites in India have expected 1st generation Americans (born in the US) to have some demonstrable 'motherland loyalty' to India else terming them (or the naturalized Indians) "deracinated'/ABCDs" whatever.

Locke's reception in Beijing shows a side of America that is little appreciated: It is changing and not afraid to send Ambassadors to non-European countries of the same ethnic stock as their hosts. It sent a Bangladeshi as its Ambassador to Fiji earlier.

Curiously, the only other country that has done so is Oz. Peter Varghese is HC to India.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/homs/io.html

Point I'd like to make is we should go easy on PIOs abroad. They have adopted countries and the countries have adopted them. To expect them to have the same viewpoint or goals as Indians in India is unreasonable.

Is Gary Locke a 'traitor' because he sees himself as American not Chinese first? If the next US Ambassador to India is of Indian origin, will we on BRF expect him to act against US interests and if he doesn't, will we hold him to a different standard? I hope not.

I personally see Locke's appointment as a wonderful move away from the pith helmet mentality at the SD. Maureen Chao (Chinese Hubby?) is an idiot but let's just make her irrelevant and maybe just maybe, she has to report (through the Chennai CG) to a US Ambassador in ND who is of Indian-Tamil origin. May not be that far away think hard. :)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby putnanja » 16 Aug 2011 04:13

Cosmo_R wrote:...

Point I'd like to make is we should go easy on PIOs abroad. They have adopted countries and the countries have adopted them. To expect them to have the same viewpoint or goals as Indians in India is unreasonable.
...



Cosmo, agree with your post. However, many who have adopted other countries try to prove that the interests of US and India are same and should converge. Some of them can't seem to understand that there might be areas where US and Indian interests will diverge and that they have to take a stand. Unfortunately, they don't want to take a stand, and will then accuse other Indians of being jingoistic/anti-US etc.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 16 Aug 2011 04:25

OT:
Cosmo_r,
Either he is here or he is there, if he tries standing on two boats and expect equality between him and one in only boat in each boat, that is bilge and will be treated as the BS it is. When the boats go in the same direction, all is fine but when they start diverging, he HAS to pick one and not expect that the boats will continue just for his convenience and capsize itself in the process.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 Aug 2011 05:01

@Virupaksha ^^^: So what's your advice to Gary Locke? Is he really standing on two boats, has he picked his side?

The point is not WHETHER he has picked his side. Of course he has. The question is why the Chinese have an issue with this they did not have with Huntsman or Blair or all the other white guys. By extension any US Amby of Indian origin.

IOW, the Chinese are creating an issue given his ethnicity that ought not to exist. I hope you understand the point I'm making. This is NOT about about the individual's choice (already made) but the host country people second guessing on his choice.

If ethnicity is such an issue in India/BRF, are we better off having a white guy/gal/transgender/gay US ambassador than we are with an Indian origin one because we expect more of him?

Think of the what the real issue is..

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 16 Aug 2011 05:52

Cosmo_R wrote:@Virupaksha ^^^: So what's your advice to Gary Locke? Is he really standing on two boats, has he picked his side?

He has and if people cant recognise it, it is their own foolishness.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 Aug 2011 06:36

Virupaksha wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:@Virupaksha ^^^: So what's your advice to Gary Locke? Is he really standing on two boats, has he picked his side?

He has and if people cant recognise it, it is their own foolishness.


That is exactly the point and you've got it. It is stupid to expect ethnicity to trump nationality. So no 'deracination' abcd etc. in our analysis here on BRF makes sense.

ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 16 Aug 2011 07:45

Old essay by David Mamet in Village Voice:

"Why I Am No Longer a 'Brain-Dead Liberal'"

makes good read to understand the displacement going on since 2008.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby partha » 16 Aug 2011 12:08

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2361185.ece

United States has exuded confidence in India’s ability to manage its “internal situation” remaining consistent with the democratic values.

“India is a very strong and vibrant democracy, and we have confidence in India’s ability to manage its internal situation in a manner that is consistent with the democratic values of the state,” State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland told reporters.

Ms. Nuland was responding to a question about her remarks made last week on the peaceful protest movement against corruption by social activist Anna Hazare.

“As you know, we support the right of peaceful, non-violent protest around the world. That said, India is a democracy, and we count on India to exercise appropriate democratic restraint in the way it deals with peaceful protest,” she had said in response to a question last week.


This after asking India to show restraint regarding Anna's protest. Why doesn't US mind its own business?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Sanku » 16 Aug 2011 13:18

Cosmo_R wrote:
Virupaksha wrote:He has and if people cant recognise it, it is their own foolishness.


That is exactly the point and you've got it. It is stupid to expect ethnicity to trump nationality. So no 'deracination' abcd etc. in our analysis here on BRF makes sense.


I dont quiet get your "takleef" (issue) Cosmo; how does Chinese views of what their citizens should be like have a bearing here? What are the lessons for us? That we should we be like the Chinese and expect more from ethnicity? Or expect less?

Or are you saying that we are right in where we are which is to expect nothing?

In that case I would say that you are quite mistaken because

1) Any number of Indians have demonstrated that the side they will pick irrespective of citizenship is first and foremost India. In fact they are quite convinced that what is good for India is good for their country in turn. So in doing the best for India they do good for their adopted country as well.

2) Any number of Indians have demonstrated an expectation that they expect that Indians when they go outside should should bat for India first.

3) Any number of Indians have demonstrated that they are low life's who would use their ethnicity to pretend to be 1 while actually batting for non-Indian intrests (actually all they are batting for is their OWN personal interest since they are basically completely ideology free opportunists of nth order) -- they are both NRIs and RNIs.

So yeah ethnicity and citizenship is some what mixed up in Indian context, I personally think that the Chinese have a more "ideologically" purer stance here.


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