India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Cosmo_R
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 00:10

chetak wrote:

Good show.

Quite a change from even watchmen and security guards from the US meeting the high and mighty including the termite queen and PM on their every visit..

...


The real question is whether JFK will meet SG this time since INC is not LOP :)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 31 Jul 2014 00:26

My good friend DoCJi detests me for comparing US approach to things with the way India does, but I can't help doing so from time to time, just to highlight some key points.

Recall this Tea party dude referring to Nisha Biswal as an Indian and how in general US maturely and nonchalantly and self confidently dealt with their latent conscious or unconscious in this case racism and xenephobia. They just laugh it it off, give the most positive spin: "US is learning how to deal with changing diversity", "Oh we are so great onlee but for some bad apples" etc. None of that self loathing, pompous, moralistic, furious "debates" like we saw in the Sania Mirza case recently. And I shudder to think what would be the reaction in India had a BJP politician mistakenly referred to an Indian Muslim as a Paki

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28496544

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 31 Jul 2014 01:07

CRamSji,

That comparison is interesting. The western universalism thread gave me a new way of looking at "Americanism" and "American Exceptionalism".

Americanism is like being "cool". Being "cool" changes by the season and eras. Being "cool" in 1960s was about pushing black people to the back of the bus and making black grandmas vacate their bus seats for a white teenager and occasionally lynch/murder a black dude and make post cards out of it (http://withoutsanctuary.org). In the 2000s, being "cool" was about accepting your gay friends as normal people, not being overtly racist, having one token black friend (if you are white) etc.

The "cool" were always American, the "uncool" were unAmerican. That in short is what Americanism is. It externalizes failure. We Americans do not fail, if we fail we are not American. This has an interesting parallel to the situation in our retarded neighbors to the west, Bakistan where Muslims dont kill Muslims... only non Muslims do. Muslim failure is not a failure of Islam, it’s a failure of those people who do not follow Islam properly and are thus not Muslim. Muslims following Islam will not fail.

This externalizing of failure helps Americans to absorb insane amount of injustices mounted on them. That senator did something that is not cool, so they externalized his action and laughed it off. They call him retarded etc. In India, if something like this happens, we internalize it, generalize it and we shame ourselves. The way we view "Indianism" is exactly opposite of how Americans look at "Americanism". We internalize our failure and shame ourselves into believing we are worthless. They exteranlize it and say, its unAmerican and maintain their self-esteem, while trying to correct what they perceive as wrong. I don’t know what is the right way, because the American way of dealing with failure is disastrous. I outline a couple of them below.

I always wondered why poor white hillbillys who need welfare and subsidized education vote Republican who are hell bent on cutting funding to both of these things. Its highly counterintuitive. The answer is how the hillbillies and their leaders define "Americanism": Being rich and independent. Being poor and dependent of welfare: UnAmerican. So they worship rich people, vote republicans who then promptly cut welfare and make them even more destitute.

You can draw the same parallels with police brutality (which is mostly directed against black/hispanics). Since white people rarely get brutalized by the police, they see Brutalization of non-whites as justified coz they are doing "something wrong" and doing "something wrong" is unAmerican. Exactly the same thing about incarceration rate. Most recent example is Colorado. Before legalizing pot, more than 90% of convicted pot offenders were blacks. Whereas once it was legalized, one can see that most people who grow pot, sell/distribute them AND consume them are white. Suddenly, in Colorado, smoking pot became "American". But we all know that the same white people were doing the same thing before it was legal, just that they were not being caught at the same rate and one can only guess why!

Same can be said of Gun culture: owning a Gun is Americanism, not owning one is unAmerican. One can see the results of this thinking with recent events : Cliven Bundy militias, Las Vegas shooting, Columbine and countless other mass shootings in the US.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2014 01:30

I wish ppl wudnt refer to John Forbes Kerry :P as "JFK". Pls pick 3 other letters - or 4 letters - like JoK or JoKE or FoKer or Besy or Nose. Thx.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 31 Jul 2014 02:14

LokeshJi,

Brilliant analysis. One thing I've noticed is how American elites decide what is "cool" and then everybody follows like a sheep. Its such a condescending approach to tolerance of the other, let alone any respect. Crap like: "when you go black, you don't go back" :-).

On police brutality, man oh man, did you see that recent case in Long Island (or Staten Island), NY where a black guy was bludgeoned into submission, so much so the he chocked and died later. His crime: he was selling loose cigarettes.

Before CNN was putting on their spin masters, I was just looking at the video, and it horrified me at the sheer brutality that a bunch of 6-8 jack booted white police thugs (and I think there were an Uncle Tom black and Asian cop who was part of the gang bang) brazenly assaulted a fellow human being and literally murdered him who happens to be black.

Then the spin masters came on. I could not believe it when one of the white guys speaking on behalf of the white cops actually justified what those thugs did, and spinning his way through. The end result: white cops are not brutal, they don't commit torture, its "un American". What they did was in self defense and upholding the law. Man, it made me puke.

My advice to all SDREs, never, ever, ge into into trouble with white cops in this country. I can only imagine what poor Devyani Kobragade went though. And it pains and shames me even more when many Indians can't compare apples Vs oranges and are either apathetic or actually justify what happened to her because of their pet grievances (many times justified) on brazen VIP privilege in India which they associate with her.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 02:40

CRamS wrote:.... They just laugh it it off, give the most positive spin: "US is learning how to deal with changing diversity", "Oh we are so great onlee but for some bad apples" etc. N....
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28496544


Not everyone laughed it off:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/25/4 ... flori.html

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 31 Jul 2014 03:02


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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby V_Raman » 31 Jul 2014 03:57

LokeshC wrote:CRamSji,

That comparison is interesting. The western universalism thread gave me a new way of looking at "Americanism" and "American Exceptionalism".

Americanism is like being "cool". Being "cool" changes by the season and eras. Being "cool" in 1960s was about pushing black people to the back of the bus and making black grandmas vacate their bus seats for a white teenager and occasionally lynch/murder a black dude and make post cards out of it (http://withoutsanctuary.org). In the 2000s, being "cool" was about accepting your gay friends as normal people, not being overtly racist, having one token black friend (if you are white) etc.

The "cool" were always American, the "uncool" were unAmerican. That in short is what Americanism is. It externalizes failure. We Americans do not fail, if we fail we are not American. This has an interesting parallel to the situation in our retarded neighbors to the west, Bakistan where Muslims dont kill Muslims... only non Muslims do. Muslim failure is not a failure of Islam, it’s a failure of those people who do not follow Islam properly and are thus not Muslim. Muslims following Islam will not fail.

This externalizing of failure helps Americans to absorb insane amount of injustices mounted on them. That senator did something that is not cool, so they externalized his action and laughed it off. They call him retarded etc. In India, if something like this happens, we internalize it, generalize it and we shame ourselves. The way we view "Indianism" is exactly opposite of how Americans look at "Americanism". We internalize our failure and shame ourselves into believing we are worthless. They exteranlize it and say, its unAmerican and maintain their self-esteem, while trying to correct what they perceive as wrong. I don’t know what is the right way, because the American way of dealing with failure is disastrous. I outline a couple of them below.

I always wondered why poor white hillbillys who need welfare and subsidized education vote Republican who are hell bent on cutting funding to both of these things. Its highly counterintuitive. The answer is how the hillbillies and their leaders define "Americanism": Being rich and independent. Being poor and dependent of welfare: UnAmerican. So they worship rich people, vote republicans who then promptly cut welfare and make them even more destitute.

You can draw the same parallels with police brutality (which is mostly directed against black/hispanics). Since white people rarely get brutalized by the police, they see Brutalization of non-whites as justified coz they are doing "something wrong" and doing "something wrong" is unAmerican. Exactly the same thing about incarceration rate. Most recent example is Colorado. Before legalizing pot, more than 90% of convicted pot offenders were blacks. Whereas once it was legalized, one can see that most people who grow pot, sell/distribute them AND consume them are white. Suddenly, in Colorado, smoking pot became "American". But we all know that the same white people were doing the same thing before it was legal, just that they were not being caught at the same rate and one can only guess why!

Same can be said of Gun culture: owning a Gun is Americanism, not owning one is unAmerican. One can see the results of this thinking with recent events : Cliven Bundy militias, Las Vegas shooting, Columbine and countless other mass shootings in the US.


I tell my two girls to always back themselves, never shy away from apologizing for mistakes, move on and trying again. The society has to support that. I like Americanism from that regard. Indianism kills self-confidence very quickly, especially for girls. I don't know if there is a middle way.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 31 Jul 2014 03:59

svinayak thanks for posting that video. Sheer pleasure to watch MUTU mofossils getting a GPL from their supposed masters.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 31 Jul 2014 05:25

V_Raman wrote:I tell my two girls to always back themselves, never shy away from apologizing for mistakes, move on and trying again. The society has to support that. I like Americanism from that regard. Indianism kills self-confidence very quickly, especially for girls. I don't know if there is a middle way.

You are correct. Let me elaborate a bit.

From a psychological POV:
When criticizing someone, if one also wants to maintain a healthy relationship with that person, always criticize the action and not the person. There is a difference between the following two statements: "What you did was stupid!" and "YOU are stupid". The first one is a healthy attitude, since the person on the other end can correct their actions, it gives them a chance to correct it. The latter statement is a judgement on the person and it obviously becomes extremely personal. It also cannot be corrected, since it expresses the state the criticized individual is in. I am generalizing here, but I have seen majority of Indian parents criticizing their kids in a very personal, self-esteem killing manner. This is a legacy of Macaulayism.

English Educated Indianism carries over the racist hatred that the Briturds had for us. Thus a stupid act done by an Indian is criticized very personally, i.e. "we are very casteist" or "we are fundamentalist" or "we are idiots" instead of the right thing to say which would be "what we/he/she did there is not the right thing to do". This critiquing the self generates self-hate and it also kills any self-esteem one has. This is why all the WKKs, DIEs etc forego their self-esteem and dhothi-shiver when they have to ideologically confront someone white. This is also why someone non-Indian who has a sense of self-esteem find it very easy to manipulate Elitist Indians.

Coming to "Americanism": Americanism goes one step forward it says: "You did something stupid, Americans cannot do stupid stuff and therefore you are not one of us Americans". Depending on the ethnicity of the wrong doer and the belief of what is American the consequences of stupidity can range from "laughing it off", to "lynch that mofo". Americanism is like a cult in that respect and shows many of its characteristics. For example: The first generation converts to a cult will be the its most fundamentalist followers. MUTUs are exactly those first gen converts. The difference between Americanism cult and other cults is that its definition changes depending on whom you ask. You will get one definition if you as Dinesh D'Souza and another if you ask Hilary Clinton. Not very different from Islam in that matter.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby member_22733 » 31 Jul 2014 05:38

Cosmo_R wrote:
CRamS wrote:.... They just laugh it it off, give the most positive spin: "US is learning how to deal with changing diversity", "Oh we are so great onlee but for some bad apples" etc. N....
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-28496544


Not everyone laughed it off:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/25/4 ... flori.html

A few quotes from the article:



They don't call us Flori-duh for nothing. {nice joke}

The latest inductee to the Sunshine State's face-palming club: U.S. Rep. Curt Clawson, the Bonita Springs Republican who replaced Trey Radel, the cocaine congressman busted for buying blow in Washington last year.



But first someone needs to explain the congressional ropes to the politician from that sometimes-alien land known as Flori-duh. {sometimes-alien == unAmerican!!! It takes a view of that guy is so dumb, we oughta teach him how to be American :) }


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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 05:52

Satya_anveshi wrote:svinayak thanks for posting that video. Sheer pleasure to watch MUTU mofossils getting a GPL from their supposed masters.


Wrong takeaway.

Ms Bishwal and Mr Arun Kumar are not MUTUs. They are American and they are Unkil.

They do not have to be 'Indian' to satisfy established MUTU standards.

What is it you want? Shirin Tahir-Kheli as an example of non-MUTU.?

That would be more anti Indian than Pakistanis would be?

I find it so distressing that the diaspora is viewed as a liability rather than an asset.

The Jews don't think so. Only Hindus apparently.

Really saddened.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 31 Jul 2014 06:05

Few here, myself included, think of Preet Bharara as an asset and we have our reasons. If you don't get it, it is really your problem.

And I'm sure not all Jews in America are assets to Israel. I don't even understand how you're so comfortable in generalizing. Quite laughable really.

Jews March in New York Rally Against Israel War in Gaza

Image

Do keep your generalizations of Hindus to the random BS thread.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 06:12

Think is the operative. Very few. Like one or two. What has PB got to do with the congressional hearing?

I think you are claiming (to speak on behalf of so many) is pretentious and preposterous.

Or are you the 'thought leader'?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 31 Jul 2014 06:14

Whatever, chief. Move on and take your generalizations elsewhere. We have our own thought leaders and we don't need the fortune cookie-style thoughts for the day from you.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 06:22

PratikDas wrote:Whatever, chief. Move on and take your generalizations elsewhere. We have our own thought leaders and we don't need the fortune cookie-style thoughts for the day from you.


No. The 'royal we' does not work. So as the Chinese say " You go now yes?"

Watch NatGeo, fulminate against the injustice of the universe, seek relief in the eventual failure of people like you whilst promoting the triumph of those who are not.

BUT don't use 'WE' you are just speaking for yourself.

One is a very lonely number (fortune cookie says so).

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 31 Jul 2014 06:28

When Preet Bharara was celebrated as a success story for the Indian diaspora in the US, he only proved himself to be a ass-hole, not an asset. This is not just ME saying so. WE say so, and WE constitutes many on this forum whose thoughts are documented in the archives. Your trying to belittle my recollection of recent history as one disgruntled person's opinion is also laughable. What effect this darling of the Indian diaspora had on Indian-American relations is clear to all who don't have their head buried in the sand. The word "reset" is still being used for Indian-American relations.

Like Preet Bharara, there are many other Indian "diaspora" MUTUs like those at the University of California, Berkeley who are falling over themselves to help Indi's victims that don't really exist.

Contemplate that.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 06:30

You are not WE

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 31 Jul 2014 06:32

MurthyB wrote:Angana Chaterjii, that despicable commie ISI traitor was fired from a dubious institution called CIIS back at the end of 2011. Now she is apparently at the Haas school of business at UC Berkeley. The list of these worthies reads like a who's who of 'breaking India' forces, both here and in India.

I mean, for most people, being fired from an academic institute, especially a fly-by-night one like CIIS would end their career. Not so for these scumbags it looks like. Talk about infiltration.

http://nonprofit.haas.berkeley.edu/research/acr-bios.html


Raja Bose wrote:
MurthyB wrote:Angana Chaterjii, that despicable commie ISI traitor was fired from a dubious institution called CIIS back at the end of 2011. Now she is apparently at the Haas school of business at UC Berkeley. The list of these worthies reads like a who's who of 'breaking India' forces, both here and in India.

I mean, for most people, being fired from an academic institute, especially a fly-by-night one like CIIS would end their career. Not so for these scumbags it looks like. Talk about infiltration.

http://nonprofit.haas.berkeley.edu/research/acr-bios.html


Harsh Mander, Teesta all are there - only one missing is Arundhoti, perhaps she will be invited as a visiting scholar. :lol:

Karan M wrote:That has to be the greatest collection of jerks all in one place. So much for UC Berkeley.

PS: Could it be that these people are securing their future for the next 4-8 years of an indoo admin in India? Basically get faculty pojitions and run off to California? Smart sleazeballs.


We are WE.

See what I did there? I have fortune cookies at my local Panda Express too.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 31 Jul 2014 07:22

Brahma Chellaney on the time-tested method by which great powers destabilise smaller powers in the name of humanitarian "intervention",when they are actually outlaws.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 265774.ece
Intervention, evasion, destabilisation
Brahma Chellaney
Big powers over the years have targeted specific regimes by arming rebel groups with lethal weapons, thereby destabilising some states and contributing to the rise of dangerous extremists and terrorists. The destabilisation of Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and Libya, among other states, is a result of such continuing geopolitical games.

It is the local people who get killed, maimed and uprooted by the interventions of major powers and their regional proxies. Yet those who play such games assume a moral posture to rationalise their interventionist policies and evade responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Indeed, they paint their interference in the affairs of other sovereign states as aimed at fighting the “bad” guys.

Cold War echo

Take the blame game over the downing of Flight MH 17, which was shot down by a surface-to-air missile (SAM), allegedly fired by eastern Ukraine’s Russian-speaking separatists, a number of whom have clearly been trained and armed by Russia. Russia’s aid to the separatists and Washington’s security assistance to the government in Kiev, including providing vital intelligence and sending American military advisers to Ukraine, is redolent of the pattern that prevailed during the Cold War, when the two opposing blocs waged proxy battles in countries elsewhere.

Today, with the Ukrainian military shelling rebel-held cities and Russia massing heavy weapons and troops along the frontier, the crisis threatens to escalate to a direct U.S.-Russia confrontation, especially if Moscow directly intervenes in eastern Ukraine in response to the worsening humanitarian crisis there. The United Nations says the fighting in eastern Ukraine has uprooted more than 230,000 residents. Over 27,000 of them have taken sanctuary in Russia.

After the MH 17 crash, U.S. President Barack Obama was quick to hold Russia and its President, Vladimir Putin, guilty in the global court of opinion over the downing and to spotlight Russian aid to the separatists. Through sanctions and diplomacy, Mr. Obama has steadily ratcheted up pressure on Mr. Putin to stop assisting the rebels. Yet, Mr. Obama has had no compunction in gravely destabilising Syria through continuing covert aid to “moderate” militants there. The aid is being channelled through the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the jihad -bankrolling oil sheikhdoms.

Regime-change strategy

Mr. Obama set out on the mission of regime change in Syria by seizing the opportunity that opened up in 2011, when popular protests broke out in some cities against President Bashar al-Assad’s autocratic rule. The detention and torture of a group of schoolchildren, who had been caught scribbling anti-government graffiti in the city of Deraa, led to protests and demands for political reforms and a series of events that rapidly triggered an armed insurrection with external assistance.

From bases in Turkey and Jordan, the rebels — with the clandestine assistance of the U.S., Britain and France — established a Free Syrian Army, launching attacks on government forces. Washington and its allies simultaneously mounted an intense information war demonising Mr. Assad and encouraging officers and soldiers to desert the Syrian military and join the Free Syrian Army.


It is clear three years later that their regime-change strategy has backfired: Not only has it failed to oust Mr. Assad, it has turned Syria into a failed state and led to the rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant — a brutal, medieval organisation seeking to establish a caliphate across the Middle East and beyond. With radical jihadists now dominating the scene, the Free Syrian Army has become a marginal force, despite the CIA continuing to train and arm its members in Jordan.

Had Mr. Obama, British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President François Hollande not embarked on this strategy — which helped instil the spirit of jihad against the Assad regime and opened the gates to petrodollar-financed weapons to Syrian jihadists — would murderous Islamists be in control of much of northern Syria today? It was this control that served as the staging ground for the rapid advance of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant into Iraq. This group now is in a position to potentially use water as a weapon through its control of the upstream areas along the Euphrates and Tigris rivers in Syria and Iraq, including important dams.

By inadvertently turning Syria into another Afghanistan — and a threat to regional and international security — the interveners failed to heed the lessons from the CIA’s funnelling of arms to the Afghan mujahideen (or self-proclaimed “holy warriors” of Islam) in the 1980s. The funnelling of arms — partly financed by Saudi Arabia and some other oil sheikhdoms — was a multibillion-dollar operation against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan that gave rise to al-Qaeda and monsters like Osama bin Laden and Mullah Mohammad Omar, chief of the Taliban who remains holed up in Pakistan. It ranked as the largest covert operation in the CIA’s history.

Now, consider a different case where a regime-change strategy spearheaded by the U.S., Britain and France succeeded — Libya. The ouster of Col. Muammar Qadhafi’s government through U.S.-led aerial bombardment in 2011, however, ended up fomenting endless conflict, bloodletting and chaos in Libya.

The virtual crumbling of the Libyan state, more ominously, has had major international implications — from the cross-border leakage of shoulder-fired SAMs from the Qadhafi-built arsenal, including to Syrian jihadists , to the flow of other Libyan weapons to al-Qaeda-linked groups in the arid lands near the Sahara desert known as the Sahel region. Nigeria’s Boko Haram extremists have also tapped the Libyan arms bazaar.

The weapons that Qatar and, on a smaller scale, the United Arab Emirates shipped to Libyan rebels with U.S. approval, including machine guns, automatic rifles and ammunition, have not only destabilised Libya but also undermined security in Mali, Niger and Chad. These weapons had been handed out like candy to foment the uprising against Qadhafi.

There cannot be better proof of how the toppling of Qadhafi has boomeranged than the fact that the U.S., whose ambassador was killed in a 2012 militant attack in Benghazi, the supposed capital of the Libyan “revolution,” has now shut its embassy in Tripoli, citing increasing lawlessness. The predawn evacuation of its entire embassy staff to Tunisia, with U.S. warplanes providing air cover, represented a public admission of defeat.

The plain truth is that it is easier for outside forces to topple or undermine a regime than to build stability and security in the targeted country. With neighbourhoods becoming battlefields, Iraq, Syria and Libya are coming undone. Another disintegrating state is Afghanistan, where Mr. Obama is seeking to end the longest war in American history.

Marginalisation of U.N.

Such is the United Nations’ marginalisation in international relations that it is becoming irrelevant to the raging conflicts. To make matters worse, the U.N. Security Council’s five permanent members, although tasked by the U.N. Charter to preserve international peace and security, have helped spark or fuel regional conflicts and aided the rise of insurgent groups through their interventionist and arms-transfer policies. These five powers — all nuclear-armed — account for more than 80 per cent of the world’s official exports of conventional weapons and most of the unofficial transfers. Chinese arms, for example, have proliferated to a number of guerrilla groups active in Africa and Asia, including insurgents in India’s northeast.

The only mechanism to enforce international law is the Security Council. Yet, its permanent members have repeatedly demonstrated that great powers use, not respect, international law. They have a long history of ignoring international rules when these conflict with their plans. In other words, the international law enforcers are the leading lawbreakers.

Mr. Obama, in toppling Qadhafi through the use of air power, and Mr. Putin, in annexing Crimea, paradoxically cited the same moral principle that has no force in international law — “responsibility to protect.” Indeed, the transition from the 20th to the 21st centuries heralded the open flouting of international law, as represented by the bombing of Serbia, the separation of Kosovo from Serbia, and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Against this background, it is scarcely a surprise that, despite the continuing rhetoric of a rules-based international order, the world is witnessing the triumph of brute force in the 21st century.

If the Security Council is to act more responsibly, its permanent members must look honestly at what they are doing to undermine international peace and security. This can happen only if the Council’s permanent membership is enlarged and the veto power abolished to make decision-making in that body truly democratic.

(Brahma Chellaney is a geostrategist and the author, most recently, of Water, Peace, and War, Oxford University Press, 2014).

The plain truth is that it is easier for outside forces
to topple or undermine a regime than to build stability and security in the targeted country.
If Libya, Syria and Iraq are coming undone and Ukraine has been gravely destabilised, it is the result of interventions by big powers that claim to be international law enforcers when, in reality, they are lawbreakers


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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 31 Jul 2014 07:40

Cosmo_R wrote:Not everyone laughed it off:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/07/25/4 ... flori.html


Cosmo_RJi, let me make my point clear. I may have come across as critical of US, but far from it. I admire and respect US for its boldness, self-confidence, nationalism etc. Every country has its share off racism, xenephobia, in India's case, casteism; and no country is immune from that.

What pisses me off is when they pull off this human rights BS, and in India's case, the manner in which they humiliated Hindus through Modi. Thats why this episode intrigues me to the extent that for all their pompous pronouncements to diversity, the mindset of the average Joe six pack is no different from this Congressman. And let me re-ierate that I am not unduly offended. Only when I juxtapose episodes like that with their moralistic crap as though their shit doesn't stink but everybody else's does is what makes me critical of US.


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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 31 Jul 2014 08:47

UlanBatori wrote:I wish ppl wudnt refer to John Forbes Kerry :P as "JFK". Pls pick 3 other letters - or 4 letters - like JoK or JoKE or FoKer or Besy or Nose. Thx.


Let's put John Kerry in perspective:

1. He is vain. Proof in point is that he had his jaw surgically broken a couple of years back to give better appearance to his face due to an under bite. This is fine if you're an actor or media personality, but for a man in his mid 60s, well that's another story. This is also the same guy who dumped his first wife to date Morgan Fairchild, an attractive American actress from the 1980s. He probably would have married her, but Kerry didn't divorce his wife until the late 1980s because she had family money. He later married the ketchup queen billionaire Heinz. Which brings up the high probability that Kerry is a gold digger.
2. You don't know where he stands and will change his position depending on the political winds. Today he is praising Modi, yesterday was different and tomorrow will be different yet again. His flip-flop position and dullness cost him the 2004 US presidential election where he should have defeated Bush-II, but couldn't. It turns out that when he attended Yale, he was a bigger duffer than Bush-II.
3. The fellow is a closet Islamist. His admiration of policies from anti-India misfits like Richard Holbrooke are disturbing.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 31 Jul 2014 09:03

He's representing US interests. That's it. I don't give a f*ck about his jaw or his personal life. Modi has indicated he won't back down from the WTO decision. Nothing the US can give us now. They are pulling out of Afghanistan and destroying their currency and placing unnecessary pressure on us to devalue so we can keep the dollar reserve going and secure oil imports. We are looking to Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc. for alternative sources of fuel outside the present invoicing system and we are going to be Japan's second biggest strategic partner within a couple years. It is going to an Asian century, not a Western one. Kerry will just sell us a few more transport aircraft. That's it.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Satya_anveshi » 31 Jul 2014 09:11

Cosmo_R wrote:Wrong takeaway.

Ms Bishwal and Mr Arun Kumar are not MUTUs. They are American and they are Unkil.

They do not have to be 'Indian' to satisfy established MUTU standards.

What is it you want? Shirin Tahir-Kheli as an example of non-MUTU.?

That would be more anti Indian than Pakistanis would be?

I find it so distressing that the diaspora is viewed as a liability rather than an asset.

The Jews don't think so. Only Hindus apparently.

Really saddened.

Did you miss the point that they had to mention that fact (of them being Unkil to their super unkil) in a congressional hearing. And after all that has happened with complete control on Indian (mis)governance for the so many years, Kobragade/AES, coordinating Indian parliamentarians letter to US etc....do these folks deserve to be called "diaspora" even if they are part of the inner circle of hostile nation. With these kind of people in diaspora, you would not need enemies.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 31 Jul 2014 09:12

svinayak wrote:India unbound
India cannot be contained demographically,
India cannot be contained culturally,
India cannot be contained militarily,
India cannot be contained politically,

They want t contain India in the global trade system

They want to contain India using netflix !

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 31 Jul 2014 10:28

MortJi,

Interesting tit-bits about Kerry and his women history. I did know that he was married to that Ketchup queen who was married to a republican senator who died, but not his prior encounters. What I find fascinating is that the personal lifestyles of both republican and democrat politicians are similar, almost identical. So I wonder how seriously to take their public pronouncements of marital fidelity and other moralistic mumbo jumbo, especially when it comes to those who espouse "conservatism" when their lifestyle is no different from "liberals" they rail against.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Cosmo_R » 31 Jul 2014 16:14

Satya_anveshi wrote:


Did you miss the point that they had to mention that fact (of them being Unkil to their super unkil) in a congressional hearing.

No I did not. I put the incident in the same league as S (Magoo) Krishna reading someone else's speech at the UN. You have a doofus congressman.

"Coordinating Indian parliamentarians letter to US etc...."

That was the handiwork of INC and Indian citizens in the US not the diaspora such as Biswal

"do these folks deserve to be called "diaspora" even if they are part of the inner circle of hostile nation."

Not a hostile nation and second, since 1999 on BRF there was the constant refrain about pakis being able to manipulate levers of power in the US because they were in the 'inner circle'. Now we have a problem with the Biswals?

With these kind of people in diaspora, you would not need enemies.

You are confusing the Zahir Manmohameds and John what's his name with the diaspora. They are Indians.

The Diaspora is not the enemy. The enemies are in Delhi.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 31 Jul 2014 17:22

CRamS wrote:Every country has its share off racism, xenephobia, in India's case, casteism; and no country is immune from that.



Even pakistani Hasan Nisar has more intelligence then you when he said on pakistan tv that "Castism is there in every human being, would you or me want our children to marry the garbage collector woman's children? When these shudras convert to islam we're happy we say shaabash good decision! But we don't invite them in our house for lunch or ask them to sit on sofa in our drawing room for a mere glass of water. I know I don't and I won't ever! You wouldn't either"

Pakistani anchon was squirming in his chair and immediately started complaining and changed the subject.

Castism is not specific to us, no rockefeller will want his daughter marrying a gutter-cleaner.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 31 Jul 2014 17:25

Politicians' charismatic attributes are generally limited to their stirring loins.

Kerry's personal life is irrelevant.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 31 Jul 2014 19:08

Its irrelevant but gives an idea of character placement.


Cosmo_R and Pratik, We get it. Please take your feud to OT thread.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 31 Jul 2014 19:20

Cosmo_R wrote:
PratikDas wrote:Whatever, chief. Move on and take your generalizations elsewhere. We have our own thought leaders and we don't need the fortune cookie-style thoughts for the day from you.


No. The 'royal we' does not work. So as the Chinese say " You go now yes?"

Watch NatGeo, fulminate against the injustice of the universe, seek relief in the eventual failure of people like you whilst promoting the triumph of those who are not.

BUT don't use 'WE' you are just speaking for yourself.

One is a very lonely number (fortune cookie says so).

Ahem no, he can use 'we' as he speaks for me too. :)

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 31 Jul 2014 19:34

In the old days there was a thing called "IB4TL". :eek:
I fail to see the relevance of whether any postor is posting on behalf of anyone else but (ahem.. themselves, in the Royal Plural..). When one says "we", it is assumed that means "myself and all my yaks and goats".

That said, there is nothing to celebrate in the Fleudian Srip of the Frolida Cong-less-person. It is a reality that anyone except ppl of "one community" have a very uphill struggle to have their views accepted, or to have any influence, in an Establishment that is traditionally used to seeing Authoritative Figures onlee of One Community. There are always those who stand by the roadside bissing into the gutter (or in the gutter, bissing upwards, more apt) sneering at these struggles.

One might criticize Pleet Bhalala etc to one's heart's content, but... hey, if by some miracle YOU were in their shoes, what would you do differently? Would you really be better off if someone else of One Community or Another Community were in that position? Is it to your benefit to drive out such ppl from any public position or position of power, or is that just ur ass-scratching nah-nah-nah loser brat mentality puking there? Answer that very honestly, to keep your criticism a bit within bounds.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2014 19:38

I hope Kerry sahib is served the finest of indian food by his hosts featuring the same tangri kababs of desi Murga the paid MSM has been asked to bash :mrgreen:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 31 Jul 2014 19:46

UlanBatori wrote:One might criticize Pleet Bhalala etc to one's heart's content, but... hey, if by some miracle YOU were in their shoes, what would you do differently? Would you really be better off if someone else of One Community or Another Community were in that position? Is it to your benefit to drive out such ppl from any public position or position of power, or is that just ur ass-scratching nah-nah-nah loser brat mentality puking there? Answer that very honestly, to keep your criticism a bit within bounds.


The answer is very simple that preet bharara and his kind is where he is because others can't insult and degrade their own motherland and its people like he does. More like this why lawyers should be used in labs instead of rats:

Q: Why do behavioral scientists prefer lawyers to rats for their experiments?

A1: There are more of the lawyers to work with.

A2: Lawyers are more expendable.

A3: Lawyers do more harm to society than rats.

A4: Lab assistants are less likely to develop a bond or feel sympathy for them.

A5: Rats arouse more feelings of compassion and humanity.

A6: They multiply faster.

A7: Rats have an inate right to life and liberty.

A8: Animal rights groups will not object to their torture.

A9: Rats have more dignity.

A10: There are some things even a rat won't do.

A11: They're easier to catch... just tell somebody you want to sue someone and in no time, you'll have 10 of them at your feet.

A12: So you can brainwash them not to run for political office.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 31 Jul 2014 20:00

UlanBatori, use as many adjectives to describe me as your seniority allows you to get away with. Since you haven't bothered to follow the thread, let me do your homework for you. Ass-holes, not assets, who may have been thought of as celebrities in the Indian diaspora need not be celebrated when there is no reason to as they haven't done anything that signifies an intent to bridge the gap in Indian-American relations. Rather, they have done their best to be a thorn to India to demonstrate to Massa where their allegiance lies. The discussion was about "Hindus" seemingly having a problem in recognizing allies in the Indian diaspora when, in reality, there are many hell bent on proving themselves as better than the rest. Since you've missed this gigantic point, I thank you for the droppings you've blessed the thread with.

And let me reflect your Lahori logic back at you in the hope of triggering an epiphany in your very sure mind. Just because we would not be any better off if a Pakistani-American were in Preet Bharara's position doesn't mean you can blissfully assume that we would be worse off either. This is where Lahori logic crept into your argument. For all intents and purposes Preet Bharara could well have been a Pakistani. Why should "Hindus" celebrate him? :roll:

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 31 Jul 2014 20:16

DhananjayJi,

That was the ultimate insult, calling me worse than a Paki, thank you ver much :-). That said, I agree casteism is not unique to India, in fact that was the very point I was trying to make.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby prahaar » 31 Jul 2014 20:22



http://youtu.be/krJONlAvNHE

Prannoy Roy has not come out of 1980s when all India did was ask for concessions from West. I guess some of our elites are stuck in time, it was filled with complaining tones, not allowing the Secretaries to speak. Accompanying Commerce secretary may signify John Kerry is here to get the FTA moving in WTO.

Topics:
Modi Visa,Snooping, FTA/WTO/VISA, Gaza, Nuclear liability, US support for NSG/UNSC, USD 500B trade target

The time 13:00, Mr. Roy requests deeper US intervention in India, what kind of stupid journalist asks this? :eek: I thought, I had seen it all.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 31 Jul 2014 20:30

"We feel neglected" :shock:

What a damn shame that we still have a media that talks like this! I'm seriously fed up with these anchors and journalists. They just do not do the required study of the Indian position, collect money, cheat people, etc. How can India aspire to be a global power when we still have a media that operates this way.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby SanjayC » 31 Jul 2014 20:37

prahaar wrote:The time 13:00, Mr. Roy requests deeper US intervention in India, what kind of stupid journalist asks this? :eek: I thought, I had seen it all.


Roy is a White Man's stooge. Seems to be some religious or investment link somewhere. He has a grovelling tone towards whites, like a house negro talking to Massa. Americans too give him preferential access over other channels. There is some connection between the two that is not in public domain.
Last edited by SanjayC on 31 Jul 2014 20:38, edited 1 time in total.


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