India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Singha
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 Dec 2013 13:13

what do these ID cards give ? special access into airports ? airport VIP lounge access ? backstage party pass ?
police lets them off for speeding or reckless driving ?

its high time we followed the rules ourselves and stopped making exceptions to anyone.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Aryavarta » 17 Dec 2013 13:25

What if the goal was to get a "reaction" from GOI? It's far fetched to think that US has not gamed the consequences of their action.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 17 Dec 2013 13:32

It's their sheer arrogance, they gamed or not gamed is not the question. Her father said that there is more to it than meets the eye. So other angles must be probed. So maybe she gained some enemies through her line of work and nature of work. Or maybe Sangeeta Richard gained some powerful allies who were waiting for such a chance to teach Mrs Devyani a lesson.

In a hostile country, one must be careful to not leave any weak links. Because ultimately the USA has not humiliated Devyani, they have humiliated India.
Last edited by habal on 17 Dec 2013 13:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Neela » 17 Dec 2013 13:33

saumitra_j wrote:In the end, to repeat what Dr Kalam had said: Strength respects strength. India is weak currently and it has to undergo this nonsense until such time that we are able to demonstrate our power (economic as well as military).


The world has changed.
Violence, bravado, insults are the norm now. The US does it under some law pretext or global terrorism pretext. The Chinese are a bit more raw. The Pakis indulge in primitive & neanderthal acts. India seems to think its passive stance will be seen as being responsible but what is happening is that it is misconstrued as weak. In US culture, if you are weak, you will be bullied. That is what is happening here.

I am reminded of Hainan incident and the meeting of BUsh with Chinese premier in the aftermath.
A huge, at least 7 ft tall Chinese guard, with very broad shoulders made the customary introduction of Bush to the premier. And Bush is short by any standards short. That is the kind of overt message, especially after a tense incident, that China wants to send to the US because that is what the US understands.

Please don't forget Obama here. There might not be approval but there is a blind eye being turned here.
When Obama was here, wasn't there a scuffle between US diplomats & Indian security guards. They come here & insult us in OUR parliament.

Be it w/ TSP , in Visa norms, in jobs, in WTO trade negotiations, with GM, with Medicine , every key issue - it seems US & India don't seem eye to eye.
Yet this thread is called "India-US Strategic News and Discussion" . There is nothing strategic & neither is there any need for hyphenation. The sooner we realize this, the better for us.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby svenkat » 17 Dec 2013 13:39

One cant help feeling that US is frustrated in Afghanisthan.Their munna is not going to get a free ride.The Afghans are prepared to fight it out.Either the US munna is going to be 'exposed' or Ameer khan credibility will go for a toss and amirkans will be exposed by a muslim nation for supporting a rogue state.They are angry at hindoos for braving it out and the monkey trap is closing in on pakhanastaan.

The US crowed about Soviet invasion of Afghanisthan,tommorrow they will accused openly by Afghans for destroying their nation by colluding with pakis in their evil deeds.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 17 Dec 2013 13:44

Aryavarta

Unfortunately, not necessary that it has been gamed.. Even in the US, left hand does not know often that right hand is up its own rear.

This action by the NY police however is unconscionable. They have plenty of experience dealing with diplomats etc. This was deliberate, public and targeted. Like I said, something is up - maybe just a local bit of high-handedness that has backfired big time because some ignorant hick did not realise that India is not all starving children and emaciated cows - update has not occurred; but I doubt it very much. They don't simply pick up people without knowing antecedents, and Deputy Consul General is a fairly high position locally as these things go ...

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 17 Dec 2013 13:50

Unless an anal probe can be done on a couple of US guinea pigs diplomats. The message can not be sent across. Weak and feeble response like refusing to meet Congressmen, who have nothing to lose whether you meet or not meet them, will send the kind of feeble response that a prey sends to it's hunter who has it's canines at your jugular, and it kicks its feet in the air.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Neela » 17 Dec 2013 13:53

Who the f**k cares if the US has gamed consequences are not.

Call the consul to the PMO's, Foreign ministry office, ensure that there are no chairs for him to sit, make a statement, ask him to leave, make him wait without any Indian staff in the corridors, close all other doors, not allow his vehicle to be on time after the appointment, allow him to board the vehicle, make security staff to close the exit gates, make him disembark his car, search the car, make him wait in the sun, a boot or two on the car, ppointing weapons in a non-friendly way.
That should do the needful. For SRK, APJ, for the diplomat - we owe them this.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Anand K » 17 Dec 2013 13:56

Think about it, the diplomat was "processed" outside the "cage", attended by arresting officers ityadi, probably in queue with some hookers and pushers and a bunch of desk-bound donut-muncher burnouts around. Maybe even some of our embassy staff turned up at the Precinct. Wonder if she was deloused too.... you never can be sure with these damned third-worlders. The whole process must have taken about an hour while Ms. K reeled out diplomatic privileges and calls flooded the precinct. Didn't ONE of the cops/attorneys think there was something wrong about treating a diplomat like this, even if she like.... chucked a Trishul into the Mayor of New York?

They went too far this time IMO.

PS: I think we Yinduozhens got the worst Chinese snub ever...... they tested their biggest H-bomb when President Venkataraman was touring the country. Apparently we offended the Great Han by testing a little Prithvi the day before the visit IIRC. :((

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Neela » 17 Dec 2013 14:05

Jaswant Singh on TimesNow - stern action from GoI needed,reciprocate

TIMES NOW ‏@timesnow 1h
BJP Leader Jaswant Singh seeks sterns action from the govt, says “Only way to respond is with reciprocity” #DevyaniHumiliated

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby johneeG » 17 Dec 2013 14:10

Anand K wrote:Think about it, the diplomat was "processed" outside the "cage", attended by arresting officers ityadi, probably in queue with some hookers and pushers and a bunch of desk-bound donut-muncher burnouts around. Maybe even some of our embassy staff turned up at the Precinct. Wonder if she was deloused too.... you never can be sure with these damned third-worlders. The whole process must have taken about an hour while Ms. K reeled out diplomatic privileges and calls flooded the precinct. Didn't ONE of the cops/attorneys think there was something wrong about treating a diplomat like this, even if she like.... chucked a Trishul into the Mayor of New York?

They went too far this time IMO.

PS: I think we Yinduozhens got the worst Chinese snub ever...... they tested their biggest H-bomb when President Venkataraman was touring the country. Apparently we offended the Great Han by testing a little Prithvi the day before the visit IIRC. :((


Yep, this was not some low-level paandu's whim. It was surely from the higher-ups and the obvious target is dhesh, the lady diplomat seems to be just a casualty. Maybe she was chosen because she is well-connected. So, the the questions are:

Why now? Whom are they trying to send the message to?
or is it just a routine Q-tiyapa from the Amirkhan?

It goes without saying that regardless of what and why, dhesh has to give some kind of reply to this otherwise this is only going to increase.

I haven't seen anything that the sarkaar has done recently to upset Amirkhan. So, why this kind of blatant provocation? Is it to test the reactions? If so, why now? The incumbent sarkaar is expected to end its term in a few months and a new regime is expected to come. Wouldn't it be a better time to test the reaction when the new regime has come to power?

Habal saar,
what is the diplomat's family saying? According to them, what are the real reasons for this?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby vic » 17 Dec 2013 14:14

Suspend all Non-essential military imports from USA for one year!

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 17 Dec 2013 14:15

Narendra Modi should have been made Prime Minister yesterday. 6 months may be too late. It seems a routine thing, once you take a nanny to US, ofcourse she will try to stay on. And also abscond, or commit visa frauds if the need be. Only solution is not to take any nannies. Just maybe nanny has some links to powerful EJ lobbies in US, who can bear pressure on NYPD and law-enforcement to commit atrocities on diplomats to teach them a lesson not to mess with EJs. Maybe Devyani has blocked EJ visas in past.

Father is crying in front of cameras, basically showing up helplessness of current regime. Poor guy.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Anand K » 17 Dec 2013 14:20

Mallus might remember a very similar case from the previous year.... made some news in certain circles due to the high profile stature of the family in question.

The Anne George case

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 14:50

habal wrote:Narendra Modi should have been made Prime Minister yesterday. 6 months may be too late. It seems a routine thing, once you take a nanny to US, ofcourse she will try to stay on. And also abscond, or commit visa frauds if the need be. Only solution is not to take any nannies. Just maybe nanny has some links to powerful EJ lobbies in US, who can bear pressure on NYPD and law-enforcement to commit atrocities on diplomats to teach them a lesson not to mess with EJs. Maybe Devyani has blocked EJ visas in past.

Father is crying in front of cameras, basically showing up helplessness of current regime. Poor guy.

+1
DK was humiliated with strip search and was kept in a cell with drug addicts. She definitely did something which must be extremely patriotic and pissed off USG. I salute her no matter what. I guess she exposed some ongoing operation my FBI and ended someone's career or/and jeopardised american interests.
What is interesting is the MEA response here. She must have something STILL in her possession which is acting as her insurance. Else, this would have been handled in a different way. We will see more of this.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby nawabs » 17 Dec 2013 14:57

News posted below
Last edited by nawabs on 17 Dec 2013 15:08, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 17 Dec 2013 14:58

Devyani live: Remove barricades outside embassy, India tells US
2. 55 pm: India asks for details of salaries paid to domestic help

The row over diplomat Devyani Khobragade's arrest has intensified further. India has now asked for details of salaries paid to domestic help, gardener and other Indian staff in US consulates.

US policy consistent:One set of rules for own people.Another set of rules for the rest of the world.Devyani Khobragade just another example

— Smita Barooah (@smitabarooah) December 17, 2013

The Indian government has also asked US officials to remove barricades outside the Delhi embassy. India has also stopped all import clearances for US embassy including food, liquor.

Row over diplomat Devyani Khobragade's arrest intensifies: Delhi Police asked to lift barricades outside US embassy, say sources.

— NDTV (@ndtv) December 17, 2013

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 17 Dec 2013 15:06

Devyani Khobragade's arrest: angry India takes reciprocal steps
US diplomats in consulates across India have been asked to surrender identity cards issued to them and their families, which entitle them to special privileges. India has also withdrawn all airport passes for consulates and embassies and asked the Delhi police to remove barricades outside the US embassy.

"The law of strict reciprocity is in place, if they say Ms Khobragade had limited immunity then so will US officials" diplomatic sources told NDTV.

<snip>

India is also asking for details like salaries paid to Indian staff employed in US consulates, including those working as domestic helps with the families of American officials.

New Delhi has also asked for the visa details of all teachers at US schools, what they're being paid and their bank accounts.
Import clearances for the American embassy have also been removed, in what are being described as the "initial steps" in India's reciprocal moves.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 15:07

Important FACT No.1:
Devyani Khobragade had registered a complaint in a New Delhi court earlier this year against her domestic help Sangeeta Richard after she was harassed by the maid with demands for more money.
Delhi Court issued a Non-Bailable arrest warrant against Richard.
In September this year the Delhi High Court issued an injunction restraining the maid from instituting any action or proceedings against Khobragade outside India.

So Question: When she knows that this Richard is greedy why did DK had to sponsor her to US? Are there no other maids in India?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Paul » 17 Dec 2013 15:09

^^^It could be Artcile 377.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Anand K » 17 Dec 2013 15:10

One point to consider.....

This "strip searching" means she was really stripped and frisked by NYPD Amazons? I'm asking this because an India Today (?) follow up on George Fernandes's stripping claim found that he was merely asked to remove jacket and take off his belt at check in (Don't dignitiaties have separate entry lanes? :?: ). While it was surely not kosher to treat the Indian DM like that, it was far away from you know.... stripping.

My point is, charges and it's merits aside, was Devyani Khobragade treated like a diplomat should in such situation?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 17 Dec 2013 15:11

3.10 pm: Delhi Police to review security outside the US embassy, additional security and barricades to be withdrawn.

3.05 pm: Indian govt withdraws US diplomats' airport passes, seeks details of salary splits of their staff, including domestic help in the wake of Devyani Khobragade's arrest in New York. It has also sought details of American diplomats' family members working in India.

1.45 pm: The home minister assured that govt will ensure no harm is done to her: Arrested Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade's father Uttam Khobragade after meeting Shinde.

1.25 pm: Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid on Devyani Khobragade-
We have communicated strongly our discontent.
What needs to be done is being done.
We are going to address the immediate concerns.
We have already put in motion what we believe will be an effective way to deal with this issue.
We take this very seriously. Our sense has been adequately conveyed to our friends in the US.

1.00 pm: The treatment meted out to her is unfortunate, we will do everything possible on a diplomatic level: Preneet Kaur, MoS MEA on Devyani Khobragade.

12.05 pm: The treatment meted out to her is unfortunate. Govt must talk tough and convey strong objection to the US: Ram Madhav, RSS on Devyani Khobragade.

11.55 am: India asks US to return all ID cards issued to their consular officers posted in the country. The move may be a precursor to reviewing immunity and benefits enjoyed by US consular officers in India: Govt sources.

11.50 am: National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon calls treatment meted out to Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade as barbaric.

11.40 am: Narendra Modi also refuses to meet the visiting USA delegation 'in solidarity with our nation, protesting ill-treatment meted to our lady diplomat in USA'.

11.30 am: India decides to boycott US Congressional delegation over diplomat's arrest, sources say no minister will meet the delegates.

11.20 am: Rahul Gandhi refuses to meet US Congressional delegation over the arrest and humiliation of senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in New York.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby pankajs » 17 Dec 2013 15:12

Treatment meted out to Indian diplomat by US 'barbaric': Shivshankar Menon
Reflecting anger in the government, National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon on Tuesday termed as "despicable" and "barbaric" the treatment meted out to India's Deputy Consul General Devyani Khobragade in New York.

This too shall pass .. just as the anger after 26/11 .. business as usual will return with the passing of the initial fury unless the compromised government is thrown out.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 15:16

She was responsible for Pakistan desk in the Pakistan-Afghanistan-Iran division of the Ministry of External Affairs couple of years back. You dont have any chance of sitting in Pakistan desk if you are not reporting to Control.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby TSJones » 17 Dec 2013 15:18

The Indian government has also asked US officials to remove barricades outside the Delhi embassy

:D It looks like the US embassy is expecting some action. :eek: Marines at the ready with tear gas? Student demonstrators storming the embassy gates? Death to the USA? :?:
Last edited by TSJones on 17 Dec 2013 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby rajithn » 17 Dec 2013 15:21

TSJones wrote:The Indian government has also asked US officials to remove barricades outside the Delhi embassy

:D It looks like the US embassy is expecting some action. :eek:


The Indian Government means the additional barricades that were put up in front of the U.S Embassy by the Delhi Police. And the local city police forces wherever U.S Consulates were operating.

If the US thinks they can put up their own barricades on Indian land then they will have another thing coming.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby sum » 17 Dec 2013 15:23

^^ Thank heavens atleast the elections and the recent drubbing are causing GoI to do some long overdue reciprocal actions

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 15:31

I recommend GOI to fly drones/octopters over US Embassies and Consulates in India. Say it is for their own protection.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 15:36

http://hidemyass.com/files/58sIj/

Original DOJ file on DK.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 17 Dec 2013 15:41

When the personal comfort level of the US diplomats in India is reduced (a howl of protest will quickly resonate up foggy bottom)... Many of these guys are certainly doing one thing or another not quite strictly in line with either US or Indian law - payment for their personal house-help for instance, working hours is another. The airport pass (ID) withdrawal (including diplomats' families) will definitely have a solid impact; there's lots of little things like this... And that's just a start.

The US has made a mistake here (an unnecessary one). It will have to walk it back, and it will. Stupid things like this happen now and then. The party in error will pull back with appropriate language, and matters will be resolved.

What I'm curious about is why Devyani? I mean, this is a straightforward affair - and to say the case is not related to her consular tasks is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I know, diplomats have committed all sorts of crimes in the US and gotten away under diplomatic immunity - while, here for what is apparently just a payment dispute (alleged), she is cuffed in front of her kids in public outside their school and strip-searched? Makes no sense...

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby habal » 17 Dec 2013 15:43

Altair wrote:She was responsible for Pakistan desk in the Pakistan-Afghanistan-Iran division of the Ministry of External Affairs couple of years back. You dont have any chance of sitting in Pakistan desk if you are not reporting to Control.


they would not have sent her to US if she was remotely on target list for the multitude of US intelligence fronts. So that looks unlikely. This maybe a message to her bosses & Sangeeta Richard just happened and came about as a handy stick. We don't know what her bosses did, in Afghanistan or wherever, but whatever they did it was good. This is the heart & viscera of the real western anti-India lobby.

Through stuff like this, one also develops enormous appreciation for 'the bear' who keeps a good handle on these creeps. If not for them, we all would have been slaves to these deviants eons ago and the mediterranean would have been lost to the real forces of evil.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 17 Dec 2013 15:47

JEM, you dont have to look far to see illegal activities. the cullinary institute boys (& girls) are quite active and run up quite the fat dossier. GOI usually looks the other way but they have enough to make life uncomfortable for a large number of people if they want.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 Dec 2013 15:55

sum wrote:^^ Thank heavens atleast the elections and the recent drubbing are causing GoI to do some long overdue reciprocal actions


Some long overdue and serious reciprocity house cleaning may be done by the GOI under guise of protests.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 17 Dec 2013 16:00

3.10 pm: Delhi Police to review security outside the US embassy, additional security and barricades to be withdrawn.

>> delhi police has always treated some of these consulates on par with rashtrapati bhavan and janpath. special jeeps always standing by right out side the facility, barricades. now compare to the indian consulate in NYC. there is no local cop outside. its just a grubby building among many. any tamerlane could just walk in a go boom.

3.05 pm: Indian govt withdraws US diplomats' airport passes, seeks details of salary splits of their staff, including domestic help in the wake of Devyani Khobragade's arrest in New York. It has also sought details of American diplomats' family members working in India.

>> lot of juicy details could tumble out.

>> Brazil is one nation that gives as good as it gets in diplomatic stuff. US citizens need a visa to visit brazil :twisted: and they make it hard to the extent where cos prefer indics or euros to fly there to get work done rather than americans.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby abhischekcc » 17 Dec 2013 16:02

JE Menon wrote:What I'm curious about is why Devyani? I mean, this is a straightforward affair - and to say the case is not related to her consular tasks is absolutely ridiculous. As far as I know, diplomats have committed all sorts of crimes in the US and gotten away under diplomatic immunity - while, here for what is apparently just a payment dispute (alleged), she is cuffed in front of her kids in public outside their school and strip-searched? Makes no sense...


Perhaps US wanted to make a double point - the domestic help is after all a Christian.

So, apart from whatever point they wanted to make to DK's bosses, they raised an additional point about 'protection' for 'minorities'.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby merlin » 17 Dec 2013 16:14

JE Menon wrote:The US has made a mistake here (an unnecessary one). It will have to walk it back, and it will. Stupid things like this happen now and then. The party in error will pull back with appropriate language, and matters will be resolved.


Just wondering how the party in error (the US) can just pull it back with appropriate language. Even if they apologize, its an apology after humiliating her in public. Maybe we should do the same, catch a US diplomat under some pretext, strip search him/her in Tihar and then let go after an apology?

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Deans » 17 Dec 2013 16:17

Glad to see GoI finally develop a pair and stand up to Unkil. More needs to be done though. I'm appalled that 4 US congressmen come to India with no particular agenda and expect an audience with PM/HM/Speaker/Pappu...

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby anmol » 17 Dec 2013 16:34

The delegation comprising Congressmen George Holding (Republican - North Carolina), Pete Olson (Republican – Texas) David Schweikert (Republican - Arizona), Robert Woodall (Republican - Georgia) and Madeleine Bordallo (Democrat Guam) were scheduled to meet Modi. However, it was not immediately known when their meeting was scheduled.

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 17 Dec 2013 17:03

anmol wrote:
The delegation comprising Congressmen George Holding (Republican - North Carolina), Pete Olson (Republican – Texas) David Schweikert (Republican - Arizona), Robert Woodall (Republican - Georgia) and Madeleine Bordallo (Democrat Guam) were scheduled to meet Modi. However, it was not immediately known when their meeting was scheduled.



What's with every US 2 bit senators meeting creme de la creme of Indian political scene?

Do our guys even get the time of day from ANYONE in the US government??

Indians still not got over the gora skin effect........

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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 17 Dec 2013 17:05

^^ Its better we circulate Naughty America/Cheerleader diaries films more to Indian public. We will get over that effect soon.


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