Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby arun » 07 Aug 2011 21:28

This looks to be the first demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan during the Mohammadden holy month of Ramzan / Ramazan / Ramadan this year:

Two killed in suicide attack

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby a_kumar » 07 Aug 2011 23:19

ramana wrote:I think Kupwara beheading and the Chinook shooting down are both common handlers:SSG and ISI.

I dont have data yet but such actions are hallmarks of TSP special forces.


Is this one datapoint you are hinting at?

Radicals united
Pakistan’s most wanted terrorist is not a civilian but an SSG commando who was honoured by Musharraf for beheading an Indian soldier.


Drone Attack on Kashmiri
the most gruesome act associated with Kashmiri is the beheading of an Indian soldier in February 2000 - and presenting this 'trophy' to General Pervez Musharraf, the then Pak Army Chief.


I wonder if we have confirmation of above highlighted.. Taking trophy is one, presenting it to none other than Army Chief is something else.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby darshhan » 07 Aug 2011 23:26

shiv wrote:Clearly there has been a massive intelligence failure for the US. Losing 22 special forces men is not a minor loss. But compared with the stupidity and callousness the US has shown in pushing Pakistan over an innocent India ("Oh but the US did it in its own interest") - the loss is minor. The US is so dumb that they may not learn even if they lose their entire component of spl forces to Paki perfidy. The US is the country that lost 60,000 men in Vietnam before they figured out that they were in the wrong place, supporting the wrong people for the wrong reasons. I watched this idiocy through my boyhood. The US will still think Pakistan is a friend and an ally. To that extent they deserve what they get.

The US is as Paki as Pakistanis when it comes to making a big echandee show. They are now getting into a lungi dance with, of all countries, Pakistan, whose ass they were licking till 1 year ago. Now they will stage a revenge raid that will be posted on all media for the rah rah rah part to show up again and make the US echandee jhanda fly again. After that it will be back to the usual stupidity. How can a country that refused to see the truth for 50 years suddenly wake up in 1 year?

Someone wake me up in 3 months and tell me if I am wrong.


Shivji , Now that ISI headed by Shuja pasha(who in turn reoprts to Kiyani) has murdered 30 more american soldiers including 22 Seals , we will be waiting earnestly for American revenge.Since according to some of our BRFite brothers USA is much more courageous than Dhoti shivering India , then US should definitely take some action against entities responsible for this attack which Includes ISI and its head Pasha.

I am waiting.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Anindya » 07 Aug 2011 23:50

the most gruesome act associated with Kashmiri is the beheading of an Indian soldier in February 2000 - and presenting this 'trophy' to General Pervez Musharraf, the then Pak Army Chief.

I wonder if we have confirmation of above highlighted.. Taking trophy is one, presenting it to none other than Army Chief is something else.



Wikipedia has a couple of publicly available references to this, including an IE reference to actual soldier thus killed....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyas_Kashmiri

I also remember a Shehzad article on the same incident, but will try and dig it up...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2011 00:49

At War With Pakistan
http://thedignifiedrant.blogspot.com/20 ... istan.html
Officially, American and Pakistan are allies. But we know that Pakistan is hardly the ideal ally given its sympathy for and support of Islamist terrorists. This should not be shocking:

The American CIA, in order to carry out its orders, has been increasingly at war with its Pakistani equivalent, the ISI. After bin Laden was killed in May, it became known that the CIA was running an intelligence operation (to confirm the presence of bin Laden) without informing the ISI (who probably would have warned bin Laden). Since then, the ISI and the Pakistani government have been at war with the CIA in Pakistan. It’s an undeclared war. Meanwhile, the ISI denies that it is working with al Qaeda, despite a growing pile of evidence to the contrary. The Pakistanis don’t want to go public with this feud, at least not any more than they already are. But the ISI is more openly working against the CIA, while the CIA UAV campaign against Islamic terrorists in the tribal territories continues, despite Pakistani objections.
I mentioned this type of project to bypass an uncooperative Pakistan.But what choice do we have?
Of course, the funny part of Pakistan playing both sides of the game is that they are angering America, India, China, and most of the jihadis, too. The Pakistanis make our State Department look good.I'd laugh really hard except that if pushed to choose, I don't know that nuclear-armed Pakistan won't choose the jihadis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Dipanker » 08 Aug 2011 00:56

shiv wrote:
Dipanker wrote:India collectively needs to come to the conclusion that stick is the only language Pakis will understand.



But the US and China do not feel that way. they feel sucking up. paying protection money, mollycoddling Pakistan. and arming and supporting Pakistan against India is the right way. Do we or do we not want to be like the US and China "controlling" Pakistan? :roll:


I think it is misnomer to say that US and China pay protection money to the Pakis, US and China pay to the Paki whore for the services rendered. It is in China's interest to contain India and US still has some hangover from the cold war days.

Now as long as India consideres itself tied up in dealing with the Paki whore because of her 2 johns, India's predicment will not change.

Only way out is to start dishing the revenge, and in undue proportions. That is the only thing that will work against this abomination. This is the only language these barbarians will understand.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Tumba » 08 Aug 2011 02:13

hit Pakistan on every given opportunity ... in Political/ Economical and Military terms ... no leverages given on anything ...
is the only way to make peace with there Barbaric mentality these losers have...

India should always be on offensive... to keep barbarians on defensive ... make them use more n more resources on
things that will make them weak on longer terms ...

... and be on defensive with Chinese ... as long as you are on offensive terms with barbarians on western front .. these are the only ways we can give time to our
populaces to climb up on the economic ladder ...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2011 02:59

Gerard wrote:
Pakistan aspires to send an astronaut on Chinese spacecraft


If Pakistan lasts for another four decades they will be aspiring to send an astronaut aboard a Nigerian spacecraft. Never their own.


Funny thing about the Nigerians. They too have a satellite launch coming up in 3Q2011. Courtesy the Chinese. Friends in strange & high places, you say? Hey, the Chinese will help launch anyone's satellite into the blue yonder as long as they get something valuable in return (See Nigerians Natural Resources). The Chinese manufactured Nigeria's Satellite Passes Pre-Launch Test. Just so that folks remember, the Chinese had obliged the Nigerians in 2007 to launch their first satellite but alas! the darn thing had some er...flight issues in 2008.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2011 03:35

And, you thought you had heard everything about Djinnah (pbuh). But wait! Here's a new one: Holy Prophet in dream asked Jinnah to lead Muslims

As against general impression that the Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah had returned to India from London inMuhammad Ali Jinnah Praying end 1934 on persuasion by prominent Muslim leaders, the new evidence proves that the Quaid decided to end his self exile after he dreamt of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) who asked him to go to India and lead the Muslims in their struggle for a separate homeland for the Muslims of South Asia.
Chaudry Fazl-e-Haque, now in 90s, who had frequent chances to meet with Quaid-i-Azam and Quaid’s very close associate and confidant, Allama Shabbir Ahmed Usmani, said that Mr Jinnah had told Allama about his dream, in New Delhi when the Pakistan movement had been launched by the Quaid.
The Quaid-i-Azam asked Allama Shabbir Ahmed Usmani not to mention the dream to anyone during his (Quaid’s) life time.
He (Djinnah) told Allama Shabbir Ahmed Usmani about his dream of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and said he had returned to India in 1934 on order by the Prophet (PBUH) he loved most.
Though Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah outwardly looked to be a Westernized man in terms of life-style, he had deep love for the Prophet (PBUH) and the Muslims of South Asia.


There you have it folks. Djinnah was on a divine mission. By the way, even the burqa clad Mullah of Lal Masjid claimed that he saw holy Prophet in his dreams.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Aug 2011 04:01

He (Djinnah) told Allama Shabbir Ahmed Usmani about his dream of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and said he had returned to India in 1934 on order by the Prophet (PBUH) he loved most.
Though Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah outwardly looked to be a Westernized man in terms of life-style, he had deep love for the Prophet (PBUH) and the Muslims of South Asia.


Usmani was one of the few Deobandi mullahs that supported the creation of Pakistan. He was member of the first Pakistan Constituent Assembly and is credited with the Objectives Resolution that introduced Islam into the constitution, quite contrary to Jinnah's August 11, 1947 speech. If I remember correctly, Usmani in the Constituent Assembly asked for Pakistan to be an Islamic state even while Jinnah was alive.

Nothing I've read so far suggests Usmani held a close relationship with Jinnah (but I may have missed something :) )

The key points the above story-making is trying to establish are as follows:

The testimony given by Chaudry Fazl-e-Haque clearly shows two facts: One that Quaid-i-Azam took up his mission after he was asked to return to India by the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in dream. This also shows his devotion to the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Two: That Pakistan came into being with the blessing of the Holy Prophet (PBUH).


PS: the importance of the 2nd point should be clear. If Pakistan came into being with the blessing of the Holy Prophet, then by definition, it cannot fail or disintegrate.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 08 Aug 2011 04:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby partha » 08 Aug 2011 04:06

anupmisra wrote:And, you thought you had heard everything about Djinnah (pbuh). But wait! Here's a new one: Holy Prophet in dream asked Jinnah to lead Muslims

There you have it folks. Djinnah was on a divine mission. By the way, even the burqa clad Mullah of Lal Masjid claimed that he saw holy Prophet in his dreams.

Serious question onlee - How can Djinnah or Lal Masjid mullah see Holy Prophet in their dreams? Isn't it blasphemy? I mean they saw a picture of Prophet in their dreams?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Gerard » 08 Aug 2011 04:48

One that Quaid-i-Azam took up his mission after he was asked to return to India by the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in dream.


Heretical nonsense. Can Pakistanis sink any lower? They now break the tenets of Islam in an attempt to justify the creation of Pakistan.


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2011 05:35

partha wrote:
anupmisra wrote:And, you thought you had heard everything about Djinnah (pbuh). But wait! Here's a new one: Holy Prophet in dream asked Jinnah to lead MuslimsThere you have it folks. Djinnah was on a divine mission. By the way, even the burqa clad Mullah of Lal Masjid claimed that he saw holy Prophet in his dreamsSerious question onlee - How can Djinnah or Lal Masjid mullah see Holy Prophet in their dreams? Isn't it blasphemy? I mean they saw a picture of Prophet in their dreams?


How come Holy Prophet did not forbid him from eating the flesh of his own and stop taking Chotta Peg?.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Brad Goodman » 08 Aug 2011 05:53

The way pakis talk about their prophet makes me wonder. What do you make of statements like

"Aashiq e Rasool" or "Rasool se mohabbat karne wali quam" or the ones in above article Djinnah came back coz "he had deep love for the Prophet". :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby shiv » 08 Aug 2011 05:57

Altair wrote:So if these guys dont care about community then they enjoy what they are doing. They live in mansions and have fat swiss accounts. They get young virgin girls from the mountains to satisfy their lust. They drink the best international scotch. They are also well guarded. All paid by US Tax payers money. While hard working Americans work double jobs just to pay the bills, their president is writing checks for these wealthy spies and generals who are responsible for murder and genocide. Even if the money flow stops they can live for next couple of generations with the money they already have.
This is not a whine. This must change. Those mansions must be marked,lased and made a huge pile of rubble. I can estimate such targets not more than couple of hundred in Pakistan. 2 squadrons could finish the mission in a day. So why is US not doing what it did in Iraq? Once the bombing starts, we will get defectors knocking on our doors.
Altair


Altair it is interesting that you should put it in this way. But this behaviour - of "living in mansions. enjoying wealth, whisky and girls and not fasting rigidly" made the Pakistani jernail/general appear to be secular and moderate to the American - who then loved them as one of his own kind. Of if he did not love them, it made the American feel that if the Paki general enjoys all these "good things in life" his services can be bought for all these good things.

In fact over the years all jernails acted as if they could be bought, and all of them enjoyed the "good things in life" that the USA would offer them. But once again, like the typical Islamic society these jernails/generals live in the fringe. To go back to the oil droplet analogy, the core Islamic society gets an outside coat of "moderate" paint. That coat of paint is made up of these jernails/generals who appeared "enjoy the good things in life". These jernails explained themselves as doing taqiyya for the good of the community. They were "pretending" to be unislamic for the survival and long term good of the Islamic oil droplet core community. What this meant in practice is that the survival and "good life" of the jernails was not only US money and goodwill from teh pretence that they were "secular and moderate" but the pretence put up for core oil droplet citizens (soldiers, mullahs, mango Paki) that the jernails were hardcore loyal Muslims working for Islam bringing in arms and money from kafir lands by merely pretending and doing taqiyya.

So the jernails/establishment had the best of both worlds. The Americans thought they were allies, "good guys, fun people, whom you can deal with" while mango Pakis thought that these were leaders of Islam who were being forced to behave and dress like Kafirs to do Taqiyya and reach Hudaibiya like relationships with Kafirs while Islam was actually being protected.

If you look at this from the US point of view they still think the jernails are moderate and are trying to attack the inside of the oil droplet - the core Islamic people (mullahs/mango Paki - using drones) imagining that the problem iies in there and that the jernails are mderate secular allies. The more the Americans attack the core - the more the jernails use that to tell the mango Pakis "Islam khatrey mein hai" - the kafir is anti-Islam and we jernails need our power and your sacrifice to protect Islam. Musharraf did that as recently as 2002 - the stupid American gringos are too dumb to understand. Musharraf's speech got Pakistan $3 billion plus a year from the dumbass Americans who are mourning their SEALs and watching their own economy with dismay today. :roll: Americans have not figured out that Islam deliberately allows breaking of its own rules to double cross and fool non Islamic people. As long as a Muslim says he is pretending moderation for the good of Islam he can do whatever he wants.

The Americans are trying to eliminate 150 million core Islamic oil droplet citizens 5 at a time using drones. The rate at whch they are going they will never achieve anything. Using just 20 drone attacks against 20 jernails will hit the core Islamist problem, but the US thinks those jernails are allies and because of that the US has only jernails as friends and they have only built up enmity and antagonism among mango Pakis. But the pillar of Islamism are those generals/jernails who pretend moderation to milk the Americans and get their personal friendship and support. If India were to kill a few Paki generals tomorrow the US would curse India and mourn that they have lost "good friends". If Paki perfidy was a great game, Paki perfidy using US power was a world beater.

One of the reasons why I believe a degree of trade/soft power will help India is that we can develop influence among the mango Pakis inside the oil droplet. If the jernails lose power, we will be the only country with influence among Pakis. the US has backed the wrong horse for too long.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby shiv » 08 Aug 2011 06:22

Why is the Pakistan army like Eskimos?

Because both are good at killing SEALs.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2011 06:48

Gerard wrote:Heretical nonsense


Great timing, by the way. Yes, this paki nonsense borders on heresy and derision. How can one claim to have seen and recognize the prophet in his dreams if there are no pre-existing visuals or photos of the prophet to authenticate? I mean, without sounding like a racist, can anyone come in a paki's dream and say "Abdul, I am the prohet. I command you to .......!"?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2011 06:50

shiv wrote:Why is the Pakistan army like Eskimos?

Because both are good at killing SEALs.


Come on Shiv, that's not in good taste.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Airavat » 08 Aug 2011 06:53

Pakistani media celebrate death of Navy SEALs

A banner headline in Daily Jang, that is very close to MQM said “20 of the sailors killed in Chinook crash took part in Usama killing”. Another headline in a fundamentalist newspaper Jasarat also published from the Pakistani port city of Karachi said, “25 sailors who martyred Usama killed”. A small headline in the same newspaper read, “Afghan Mujahidin (holy Warrior) down a US helicopter."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby anupmisra » 08 Aug 2011 06:59

A_Gupta wrote:If Pakistan came into being with the blessing of the Holy Prophet, then by definition, it cannot fail or disintegrate.


Big IF. It can also mean another/alternate ending to the same play. In sixty years of its miserable existence, the fact that pa'astan is scraping the bottom of the barrel, has been beaten in every war, has regularly faced natural and man made calamities, gone through multiple fratricides in its history, derided and despised by every nation and race, and sells itself to the first bidder at every turn of event means that Allah is no longer showering his choicest blessings on pa'astan and has therefore lost interest in its welfare and existence. Therefore, perhaps, pa'astan is being fattened for the ultimate halalification. Food for thought.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Kanishka » 08 Aug 2011 07:11

anupmisra wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:If Pakistan came into being with the blessing of the Holy Prophet, then by definition, it cannot fail or disintegrate.


Big IF. It can also mean another/alternate ending to the same play. In sixty years of its miserable existence, the fact that pa'astan is scraping the bottom of the barrel, has been beaten in every war, has regularly faced natural and man made calamities, gone through multiple fratricides in its history, derided and despised by every nation and race, and sells itself to the first bidder at every turn of event means that Allah is no longer showering his choicest blessings on pa'astan and has therefore lost interest in its welfare and existence. Therefore, perhaps, pa'astan is being fattened for the ultimate halalification. Food for thought.


What is astonishing is that how shamelessly and easily Pakis use Allah to justify their pathetic existence.
It is almost as if Allah/God is indebted to the Pakis and without the pakis, Allah is helpless.
It appears to me that Allah needs Pakis more than Pakis need Allah.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Hari Seldon » 08 Aug 2011 07:18

Poostan is indeed well on the road to inventing a 'south asian' brand of islam which even the araps will tremble at. What'll it take to convince the poostani army to invade low hanging fruit such as bahrain or oman in order to spread 'true' islam there, eh?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby negi » 08 Aug 2011 07:42

Amrika is reaping the results of it's own gandugiri; I say give em mujahids more stingers onlee all in the name of GOAT.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Suppiah » 08 Aug 2011 07:55

Airavat wrote:Pakistani media celebrate death of Navy SEALs

A banner headline in Daily Jang, that is very close to MQM said “20 of the sailors killed in Chinook crash took part in Usama killing”. Another headline in a fundamentalist newspaper Jasarat also published from the Pakistani port city of Karachi said, “25 sailors who martyred Usama killed”. A small headline in the same newspaper read, “Afghan Mujahidin (holy Warrior) down a US helicopter."


Hope mainstream media including LAT, NYT, WP etc., pick up on this...that would do a lot of good to TSP's image in US. And neutralise a 100 HNK taqiya's forever

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Altair » 08 Aug 2011 08:00

Well, If it was only US Navy SEALS and not our IA, I would not have bothered. It is not the case. IA is also taking casualties and we are still sitting on our asses.
There is no point in taking out couple of street players.Everybody in PA is a Jihadi. Either a Closet Jihadi or Open Jihadi.
And people here are debating if we take a top-down approach or bottom-top approach in tacking Pakistan.
Just create a list of Paki Generals like the deck of cards during Iraq War and put a bounty on everyone's head.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2011 08:03

negi wrote:Amrika is reaping the results of it's own gandugiri; I say give em mujahids more stingers onlee all in the name of GOAT.

Everything She Wants
Some body tell Unkil, Why does he work so hard for Poaqootes
Give them arms , hide their deeds ,provide tons of moneeeeeeey
Han ji Money, aha money .
Dont Massa know, alliance for give and take
Wont works if 400% fake.

Now you know, Poaq hid Oooooosama Craziiey
Got pregnanat with ugly Tali Babiieeey
How many Steps does Poaq have to take
Before this hideous relation come to break
They killed your thousand yet you remain asleep
All this to keep Indian at leash
Tell us if its worth keeping these creeps
No matter what , they cant give us grief
Nuisence they cause is but brief .
Come on Massa, part company of thiefs
Goodwill of Desi thou shall seek.
They can help u to stay at peek
Aint worth to pay for Poaq keep .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf_Lwe6p-Cg

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby shiv » 08 Aug 2011 08:07

anupmisra wrote:
shiv wrote:Why is the Pakistan army like Eskimos?

Because both are good at killing SEALs.


Come on Shiv, that's not in good taste.


No Anup. It's not in good taste. It ranks along with the other joke I head in the UK on the day of the Challenger Shuttle disaster. What does NASA stand for? "Need Another Seven Astronauts"

But I deliberately made that poor joke here because when I ignore or consider as irrelevant all the Indian deaths that have been caused by Pakistani terrorism, I can then begin to appreciate America's greatness in defeating the evil Soviet empire and weaning away China from the clutches of that Soviet empire. Indian misery and deaths were a small price to pay for the greater goals of freedom and democracy. I should joke about them to understand what being a "Great Power" means.

There is another reason for drawing attention to the deaths of Seals on this thread. I think Pakistan is involved and not drawing attention to that on this thread is like pseudosecularism.

Sorry if I hurt your sentiment.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Suppiah » 08 Aug 2011 08:36

Anything that rams into the DNA of every American including newborns that TSP=Taliban=Terror is not offensive...sometimes jokes can convey the message far more effectively than other means.

BTW it is offensive to Pakis too....Eskimos are short. Pakis are TFTA..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby CRamS » 08 Aug 2011 08:38

Altair wrote:Well, If it was only US Navy SEALS and not our IA, I would not have bothered. It is not the case. IA is also taking casualties and we are still sitting on our asses.
There is no point in taking out couple of street players.Everybody in PA is a Jihadi. Either a Closet Jihadi or Open Jihadi.
And people here are debating if we take a top-down approach or bottom-top approach in tacking Pakistan.
Just create a list of Paki Generals like the deck of cards during Iraq War and put a bounty on everyone's head.


Believe me, I have been monitroing the killing of our soldiers by Pakis for a long time now. And for whatever reason, the casualties are way down compared with that period when terrorist Mush took over power in TSP. At that time, 6-7 jawans/officers laying down their lives everyday in J&K was just a footnote in most Indian newspapers. I am not trying to trivialize current casualties IA is taking, including the recent be-headings, just pointing out that whatever may be the reasons, casualties are low now, and if its because of the fence, better intelligece whatever, I hope it continues.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby SSridhar » 08 Aug 2011 08:51

A_Gupta wrote:Usmani was one of the few Deobandi mullahs that supported the creation of Pakistan. He was member of the first Pakistan Constituent Assembly and is credited with the Objectives Resolution that introduced Islam into the constitution, quite contrary to Jinnah's August 11, 1947 speech. If I remember correctly, Usmani in the Constituent Assembly asked for Pakistan to be an Islamic state even while Jinnah was alive.

Nothing I've read so far suggests Usmani held a close relationship with Jinnah (but I may have missed something

Let me add to the Usmani-Jinnah relationship and leave it to readers to come to their own conclusion about secular Jinnah's perfidy.

Jinnah asked Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani who had apostatised Shias when he was in Deoband itself, to raise the first flag of Pakistan on Aug. 14, 1947 at Karachi. Jinnah had become a Shia himself in 1920 ! When Jinnah died, Shabbir Usmani also led the janaza prayer of this Shia, after Fatima Jinnah had secretly performed Shia rituals !

Usmani was made by the Pakistani Government as Sheikh-ul-Islam-i-Pakistan. It was he who drafted the Objectives Resolution in 1949. Later, he apostatized Ahmedis and called for them to be stoned to death as Sheikh-ul-Islam-i-Pakistan.

Maulana Shabbir Usmani’s student was Maulana Yusuf Banuri who founded the famous Banuri seminary in Karachi that has been in the forefront of jihad. Maulana Usmani famously demanded ‘jiziya’ from non-Muslims in the Constituent Assembly and told Pakistan’s first Minister for Law and Labour, Jogendra Nath Mandal, a Hindu, that non-Muslims should not hold such key posts. Mandal ultimately resigned from the cabinet of Liaquat Ali in disgust in c. 1950.

Shabbir Ahmed Usmani and his brother Zafar Ahmad Usmani (d.1974) were the nephews (and Zafar was also a son-in-law) of India’s most renowned Deobandi scholar Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby sum » 08 Aug 2011 08:59

At that time, 6-7 jawans/officers laying down their lives everyday in J&K was just a footnote in most Indian newspapers.

Actually, now it seems to be the reverse with daily news reports of 2-3 LeT/HuM/xxx Paki group commanders meeting their 72 after being ruthlessly hunted down.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Aug 2011 09:07

A good one
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_3
An excerpt:

A little fast-forward and we reach August 2011. We were in an upscale market in ritzy Islamabad, coming out of a popular CD shop. Suddenly we heard loud and sharp sounds of Quranic verses being recited as if some people were chanting them as slogans. There were 20-25 young students of a nearby madrassa (in Islamabad, the opulence aside there is a madrassa in almost every sector). I could not talk to them because the moment I started approaching them, they closed their eyes and turned their faces — a loud gesture to tell me how unwanted and unwelcome I was. Perplexed, when I tried to discuss it with the people around us, they amusingly told me I was a source of sin for them, and they were trying to keep themselves pure by avoiding music and gaze of a woman.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Sushupti » 08 Aug 2011 09:21

It is almost as if Allah/God is indebted to the Pakis and without the pakis, Allah is helpless.
It appears to me that Allah needs Pakis more than Pakis need Allah.


The plight of the Allah of Islam is portrayed by Shykh Muhammad Iqbal when he puts the following question to Allah in his Shikwã: “Tujhko ma’lûm hai letã thã kuî nãm tirã / Quwwat-i-bãzû-i-muslim nê kiyã kãm tirã (Do you know of anyone who bothered about you before we came forward? It was the muscle-power of the Muslim which came to your rescue).” “Par tire nãm pê talwãr uThãî kisnê ? Kãt kar rakh diyê kuffãr kê lashkar kisnê (But who did draw their swords in defence of your name and fame? Who was it that slaughtered the armies of the infidels for your sake?).”

Iqbal has lamented: “Qahar tõ yêh hai ke kãfir ko milê hûr-o-qusûr/ Aur bechãrê musalmãñ kõ faqat wa’da-i hûr (The terrible tragedy is that the infidels live in palaces and make love to houris in this life, while the poor Muslim has to remain content only with the promise of houris hereafter).” This is the highest aspiration to which this venerable Allãma of Islam could ever attain.

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/hindusoc/ch4.htm

so why blame mango abdul saar!?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby shiv » 08 Aug 2011 09:25

Kanishka wrote:What is astonishing is that how shamelessly and easily Pakis use Allah to justify their pathetic existence.
It is almost as if Allah/God is indebted to the Pakis and without the pakis, Allah is helpless.
It appears to me that Allah needs Pakis more than Pakis need Allah.


Maybe this is the truth. Allah needs Pakistani help and what Pakistan does is what Allah wants. Every act in Pakistan is justified in some way based on Islamic texts. So you look at Pakistan and you see Islam. We would be wrong in believing something else.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Prem » 08 Aug 2011 09:32

Tragic part of this Shikwa is that author was known as Ek-Ball. Did he has loose one in his childhood to local Maulana.? Like a true islamist and pole bearer of Ghazi Ilum Deen , his journey from Sarre jahan se Accha Hindustan hamara to Sare Jahan ka baccha Pakistan ganwara was covered within few months.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby rohitvats » 08 Aug 2011 09:38

shiv wrote: <SNIP> No Anup. It's not in good taste. It ranks along with the other joke I head in the UK on the day of the Challenger Shuttle disaster. What does NASA stand for? "Need Another Seven Astronauts"

But I deliberately made that poor joke here because when I ignore or consider as irrelevant all the Indian deaths that have been caused by Pakistani terrorism, I can then begin to appreciate America's greatness in defeating the evil Soviet empire and weaning away China from the clutches of that Soviet empire. Indian misery and deaths were a small price to pay for the greater goals of freedom and democracy. I should joke about them to understand what being a "Great Power" means.

There is another reason for drawing attention to the deaths of Seals on this thread. I think Pakistan is involved and not drawing attention to that on this thread is like pseudosecularism.

Sorry if I hurt your sentiment.


Bang on the money, you are. '

For a change, I'd like to see Indian sentiment and lives being respected by USA.

The more I think about the role of USA in the region and its support for Pakistan, the more anger and hatred I have. Everything from 1965 to 1971 massacares, the Khalistani terrorism, the Kashmir Terrorism, migration of Pandits from valley, the deaths of Indian soldiers in these insurgencies, the various bombings in India....everything, everything can be traced back directly to US support for Pakistan. USA has the bloods of innocent Indians on its hand.

And it is getting paid back exactly in the same coin by its own protege.

Couple of pages back there was this beig debate about US/China attitude towards Pakistan and Indian. Let us wait and watch what the mighty US of A can do about the deaths of SpecOps soldiers....and I bet it cannot do anything. A SpecOps soldier's life is not more important than others in the army - if the USA had done didly-squat about the lives lost over all these years, there is nothing it can do about these deaths. These will end up as another foot-note in GWOT.

Now, as for Indian soldiers killed in Kupwara and the news of their beheading - if this news is true, rest assured, this is not going to go unpunished. And from whatever little I know, there are enough precendences for it. And to use the words of ex-ACM PV Naik, the response is going to be extremely violent and disproportionate.Just watch out of news of retaliation to unprovoked firing by TSPA. Only thing is, it will not come on Times Now or NDTV for jingoes to do lungi dance. But their time will come. Beleive you me, those pakees are marked men.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby Altair » 08 Aug 2011 09:49

rohitvats wrote: Only thing is, it will not come on Times Now or NDTV for jingoes to do lungi dance. But their time will come. Beleive you me, those pakees are marked men.

But I want to do lungi dance :(( :((
I want all their Generals and important men marked and their mansions lased for bombardment.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 08 Aug 2011 10:02

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_4

You're going to have fun deconstructing this. It is so full of fallacies that I don't know where to begin. Scarily, the author "is also a regular contributor to the Indian law website http://mylaw.net".

Historically, whenever a country goes through a crisis, it finds its fair share of critics and defeatists. The consensus globally, well into the middle of the 19th century, about the experiment that was the US was that its separation from the mother country was a terrible mistake. While the US continued to be plagued with wars and ultimately the civil war and was largely impoverished when compared to its European cousins, Great Britain saw a phenomenal rise cementing its colonies worldwide, becoming the premier trading and commercial power of the world. At the time, I imagine, many Americans would have questioned the wisdom of separating from the British Empire, which was socially, culturally and economically far ahead of the US. Certainly, there was much to complain about. The new world that the US promised was till then far behind the old world. Britain, for example, had abolished slavery by 1833. That was 25 years before the US Supreme Court still ruled that people of African origin could not be included in the US constitution’s definition of a citizen. Yet the US did go through fire and emerged as the leader in the 20th century and, most likely, for some time in the 21st century as well. I challenge anyone today to agree with the naysayers then that the creation of the US was a mistake.

Using this analogy I tried recently to explain why I felt Pakistan was not a bad idea to self-proclaimed liberal Pakistanis. Their response usually is simplistic: the US had a secular constitution, Pakistan does not. Now there are two problems with this line of argument: one, the basic feature of a secular constitution that is most appealing is procedural and substantive equality for all citizens. What then is a secular constitution worth if it is interpreted to discriminate against another group on the basis of race? Therefore, the analogy between Pakistan’s treatment of its marginalised groups and how the US treated African-Americans in its first 70 odd years is on the dot. Second, and most importantly, Pakistan’s constitution in 1947 — the constitution that Jinnah took oath under — was fiercely secular. Under Section 298 of the then dominion constitution, “No subject of His Majesty domiciled in Pakistan shall, on grounds only of religion, place of birth, descent, colour or any of them be ineligible for office under the Crown in Pakistan.” Jinnah had moved to reaffirm this principle time and again, especially when he chose a non-Muslim to head the law ministry; a significant move given that law is said to be the main preoccupation of an Islamic state. He not only blocked all moves to Islamise the constitution but is said to have removed reference to God in oath of office. The point is that Jinnah was crystal clear in which way he wanted Pakistan to go. He felt, of course, that Islam was no impediment to a secular constitution and, in fact, employed Islamic vocabulary to convince his constituents that Islam and secular democracy were compatible.

As democracy takes hold and international pressures play their part in policy, Pakistan will have to become more inclusive and secular. In this respect, Jinnah’s reference to Catholic-Protestant conflict in his August 11 speech is instructive, primarily because it shows the evolution of Great Britain from a state that persecuted to a state that has become the mother of all democracies. It is not by mere chance that the mother of all secular democracies in substance is a protestant monarchy in form. In our case, we have the advantage of the information age, which has accelerated our evolution.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Aug 05, 20

Postby rajanb » 08 Aug 2011 10:12

http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/08/pakistans-fmct-woes.html

AS if US-Pakistan relations were not strained enough, news is circulating that the US plans to pressurise Pakistan to sign the Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty (FMCT) at September’s UN General Assembly.

Such an effort, more than unilateral raids and CIA security contractors, will incense the Pakistani establishment because it directly targets Pakistan’s ability to balance the security equation with India. Pakistan has long boycotted FMCT negotiations, arguing that it has to proceed with fissile material production to address the conventional military imbalance with India.


So after providing Pakisatan with missiles and ammunition to be used against the AQ Navy and Air Force, the US turning on the heat on Fissile material?

Too little, too late.

And as far as taking revenge for the 30 killed in the Chinook crash? Let us see if the US has the guts to do anything. The US has suffered much worse than that and done nothing but shiver in their jockeys!


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