Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

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devesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by devesh »

More of the same deleted by admin :roll: - JE Menon

Caution 2
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

brihaspati wrote:eklavya ji,
no point in dragging this too far about Starkey - he was quoted because he is dubbed a right wing, establishment, pro-monarchy, arrogant, "imperialistic" etc as an academic. Given his Cambridge and LSE background, he should have some academic standing from your viewpoint, I hope - to see that the criticism was coming from a "loyal" side.

Of course you did not write that he "did not publish" journal articles quitely like many other academics, but because you mentioned it for others and in the context of your sentence by comaprison with his supposed other colourful modes of publishing - you will need to search in the mainstream historical journals, including the military history journals. Have a count. You might be surprised. He has published quietly too in the journals. Not many of us here subscribe to or track the history journals.
Of course Starkey has oodles of academic credibility. But I am not sure he has done enough work in schools to be an authority on how to fix them. My own highly-inexpert view is that the real issue is not what happens or doesn't happen at "school" but what happens or doesn't happen at "home", and governments will always have a limited ability to affect that sphere of life. Anyway, enjoy:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=z1AH_lKD ... 1AH_lKDQF8

Here, he has a go at France which is actually quite funny. But contrast his response with John Redwood (a fellow of All Souls, Oxford in his day):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=rela ... jLGTX_C488
brihaspati
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

elavya ji,
I already said that the nicest words I have ever heard about him is "abrasive". His very background and reputation of being rude, traditional, pro-establishment and pro-monarchy [even his views on how history should be taught differes from current "skills" viewpoint], was actually the point - that even such a person feels things have gone badly wrong with the educational system. Its perhaps not appropriate to dismiss someone's words because he has said something politically incorrect in other domains or question his academic credentials just because he has been more successful in the public domain or popular writings.

I mentioned both him and Katherine because they represent two opposite corners - in background terms, whether professional levels, societal origins/"class" [which ia very strong determinant still in UK], etc.

If you are based in the UK, you are aware of all the other criticisms I mentioned - sourced from within the system and from within the society. Especially, the prospect of inflation of grades becomes crucial - because that feeds into all sorts of "tables" and quantification attempts. Because all such evaluations also tie into funding, that in turn creates a vicious cycle of over or under-reporting according to convenience. So when we try to base our conclusions on one or two such tables and not consider a variety of them as well as non-table pointers [as well as go into the methodology - the reason I, like many others are not yet that convinced of pearson's algorithm - they also do not exactly spell it out either in technical details], we may come to wrong conclusions.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

I think every British Indian has it - it's that question of 'where do I come from?'”
22 October 2012 Last updated at 17:21 GMT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-19992062
Today's India still has many problems - grinding poverty and malnutrition, corruption, poor infrastructure, inordinate amounts of bureaucracy - but it also has new wealth and opportunity, which is attracting entrepreneurial talent from around the world. The latest figures for the UK, for example, show that a record 30,000 people left Britain to make a life in India in 2010, a figure which is likely to have risen since.
[...]
Why would you leave the West for India?
[...]

Today's India still has many problems - grinding poverty and malnutrition, corruption, poor infrastructure, inordinate amounts of bureaucracy - but it also has new wealth and opportunity, which is attracting entrepreneurial talent from around the world. The latest figures for the UK, for example, show that a record 30,000 people left Britain to make a life in India in 2010, a figure which is likely to have risen since.

A decade ago, maybe even less, if you told someone you were moving to India, you would be met with a raised eyebrow. One of my university friends told me I'd be "setting my career back" when I once discussed my dream of living in India.

'Money to be made'

For those who moved some time ago, like Rahul Bathija, the shift in attitudes has been apparent. Born and raised in Birmingham in the English Midlands, Rahul moved to India in 1996, and was one of the few expats in Mumbai, which was then still called Bombay.

"India was a very slow developing economy at that point, and people looked at it and said 'What are you doing in India?'. Whereas now people say, 'Wow, you're in India'.

"Back then, we didn't have the fast food that was here... There weren't a variety of restaurants... Dress codes have changed, the country is less conservative than before and business dealings have become a lot more professional."

Today, Rahul Bathija is an entrepreneur at the helm of a successful mobile phone company, Bling Accessories, which makes cases and screen guards. He saw opportunity in an expanding but nascent mobile phone market in India. But, setting up a company in India is anything but plain sailing, he says stressing that his first few attempts at business in India failed.

The rewards for those who can navigate the hurdles and frustrations can be extremely lucrative. India's economy might be growing at a slower pace than previous years, but it still is expanding at a rate around the 5% mark, compared with Western economies which are stagnating. This is becoming a magnet for some of the brightest graduates, looking for lucrative markets. [...]
There are other reasons why the children of Indian migrants are heading east - a better quality of life, where domestic help means you avoid cooking and cleaning and spend more time with the family, and a lower cost of living are also commonly cited.

But there is another which is harder to define, which Rahul Bathija describes as the "burning question".
"I think every British Indian has it - it's that question of 'where do I come from?' "Being born and brought up in England you have many questions about your culture - I think you can only answer those when you come here and you realise what's happening in India."

For others like Savitha Vij, who moved to Mumbai with her husband Vikas and their children, living in India means no longer being a visible minority. Savitha says she experienced racism while growing up in the UK, and hopes the move will mean her children aren't subjected to the same.

"In the UK I'm second generation, yet I still get asked, 'Where are you from?'. There's always a question mark that you're not from there.

"What I love about being here in India is that we get looked at as one of our own, for me that's something important I can give to the children."


For so many Indians from overseas who move here, however, there's still a sense of not quite belonging in India either. I still have very British sensibilities, and friends of mine have also been told they're "not Indian enough".

What this new trend is creating is in many ways is a new culture - perhaps like the immigrant culture which has helped to change so much of British and American life - where growing numbers of "reverse migrants" are redefining what the phrase "British Indian" or "Indian American" means.

Almost every day my mother asks me when I'm going back to the UK, but like many of the thousands who have moved here, I'm not sure of the answer.

For now, at least, India is just as much my home.
anmol
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by anmol »

New MRSA superbug strain found in UK milk supply


Research reveals that antibiotic-resistant organisms are gaining a hold on dairy industry


Jeremy Laurance
Tuesday, 25 December 2012

A new strain of MRSA has been found in British milk, indicating that the superbug is spreading through the livestock population and poses a growing threat to human health.

The new strain, MRSA ST398, has been identified in seven samples of bulk milk from five different farms in England.

The discovery, from tests on 1,500 samples, indicates that antibiotic-resistant organisms are gaining an increasing hold in the dairy industry.

The disclosure comes amid growing concern over the use of modern antibiotics on British farms, driven by price pressure imposed by the big supermarket chains. Intensive farming with thousands of animals raised in cramped conditions means infections spread faster and the need for antibiotics is consequently greater.

Three classes of antibiotics rated as “critically important to human medicine” by the World Health Organisation – cephalosporins, fluoroquinolones and macrolides – have increased in use in the animal population by eightfold in the last decade.

The more antibiotics are used, the greater the likelihood that antibiotic-resistant bacteria, such as MRSA, will evolve.

Experts say there is no risk of MRSA infection to consumers of milk or dairy products so long as the milk is pasteurised. The risk comes from farmworkers, vets and abattoir workers, who may become infected through contact with livestock and transmit the bug to others.

The discovery was made by scientists from Cambridge University who first identified MRSA in milk in 2011. They say the latest finding of a different strain is worrying.

Mark Holmes, of the department of veterinary medicine, who led the study, published in Eurosurveillance, said: “This is definitely a worsening situation. In 2011 when we first found MRSA in farm animals, the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs [Defra] initially didn’t believe it. They said we don’t have MRSA in the dairy industry in this country.”

“Now we definitely have MRSA in livestock. What is curious is that it has turned up in dairy cows when in other countries on the Continent it is principally in pigs. Could it be in pigs or poultry in this country? We don’t know.”

The MRSA superbug can cause serious infections in humans which are difficult to treat, require stronger antibiotics, and take longer to resolve. Human cases of infection with the new strain have been found in Scotland and northern England according to Defra, but no details are available.

Dr Holmes said supermarket pressure on farmers to hold down prices was leading to the overuse of antibiotics to prevent cattle getting mastitis, an infection of the udder, that might interrupt the milk supply.

“If farmers were not screwed into the ground by the supermarkets and allowed to get a fair price for their milk they would be able to use fewer antibiotics,” he said.

“Common sense tells us that anything we can do to reduce use of antibiotics will reduce the growth of resistant bugs. We want to wean our farmers off antibiotics and the only way we can do that is with better regulation.”

Vets in Norway and Denmark had much more limited prescribing powers than in the UK, he added.
Travel warning time ?
Sagar G
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Sagar G »

Briturds at it again doing what they do best, lecturing dirty poor SDREs. In this case lecturing dirty poor SDRE's on rape

WHYS 30: Is it safe being a woman in India?

It doesn't matter that the nation of turds themselves have pathetic record on this but why lose a chance to lecture dirty poor SDREs ???
According to a news report on BBC One presented in 12 November 2007, there were 85,000 women raped in the UK in the previous year, equating to about 230 cases every day. The 2006-07 British Crime Survey reports that 1 in every 200 women suffered from rape in that period. It also showed that only 800 people were convicted of rape crimes that same year, meaning that less than 1 in every 100 rape survivors were able to convict their attacker.[42][43] According to a study in 2009 by the NSPCC on young people aged between 13-18, a third of girls and 16% of boys have experienced sexual violence and that as many as 250,000 teenage girls are suffering from abuse at any one time.[44][45] 12% of boys and 3% of girls reported committing sexual violence against their partners.[46]
Link
Advait
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Advait »

Al-BBC is just a few articles away from opening supporting terrorism against India. And there are still Indians who read it because of it will "improve their English".
brihaspati
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

Advait wrote:Al-BBC is just a few articles away from opening supporting terrorism against India. And there are still Indians who read it because of it will "improve their English".
We need to separate Britsh attitudes from their literary qualities. Whatever their continuing attitudes are towards India/Indians, we should separate out the aspects of their culture we 'like" and continue appreciating them.

PS: Oh it helps to ignore thinking on why or how we came to "like" what we "like" of aspects of British culture.
vishvak
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by vishvak »

Image

Ratan Tata, the UK's largest private sector employer, steps down
His biggest contribution has been to spearhead Indian companies’ foreign investments abroad, starting rather unexcitingly with the purchase of Tetley Tea in the UK in 2000. Much more significant was a take-over of South Korea’s Daewoo truck manufacturer in 2002. This was a trailblazer because it showed that someone in India’s largely unimpressive and uncompetitive manufacturing industry had the ability and nerve to venture abroad. I have always thought that this deal was a turning point in Indian industry’s self-confidence, which then grew rapidly in the mid-late 2000s.

It led on in 2007 to Tata Motors’ $2.3bn purchase from Ford Motor of the Jaguar Land Rover business, which has been a huge success. Sceptics criticised the deal because they had not foreseen that, by capitalising on design work started but not carried through by Ford, Tata had the energy, finance and managerial strength to produce impressive new models and expand sales internationally, especially in China. This demonstrated Mr Tata's capacity to drive through his decisions, as he also did, against advice from senior colleagues, on his far less successful $11bn take-over in 2007 of Europe’s Corus steel business that has left Tata Steel heavily indebted.
Prem
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Prem »

http://www.lynnefeatherstone.org/2012/1 ... -alone.htm
Rape, violence, control – India is not alone
When I came into post in the Home Office – Theresa May called me into her office and said that David Cameron wanted to appoint me as Minister for tackling Violence Against Women Overseas and policy coherence across Whitehall for this agenda – which I was very pleased to accept.Right now there is a lot of publicity, quite rightly and thank goodness, on the dreadful multiple rape of a young medical student in Delhi – who has sadly now died. Six of her attackers have been charged with murder. Let us hope that the high profile nature of this case brings change: change in laws yes – but even more importantly change in attitude and change in action takenI paste below part of a speech I made to Liberal Democrat conference when I returned from India.On my first visit as Ministerial Champion, I visited India.Now in India, women occupy four of the most senior political positions – Head of State, President of the Congressional Coalition, Head of the Opposition party and Speaker of the Lok Sabha.But from my visit it became clear that despite this political representation, India, like many other countries across the globe can still be a very unsafe place for women.On one of the days, I went to the village of Patna, in the northern state of Bihar – where reported incidents of domestic violence are highest in all of India.In this region, two thirds of all women have suffered violence at the hands of their husbands.And some of the stories I heard – of rape, of beatings, of kidnap and imprisonment – were truly harrowing.ow I met with Ministers and civil groups trying to change this, and I commend both their efforts and their intentions.But India proves that women in power doesn’t always mean empowered women.And legislation alone will not solve these problems.For women to feel truly safe when they walk home from work late at night, what has to change is attitudes.There must be social change, cultural change.And this must be achieved through the education of men and boys, as well as through new laws that move away from the dangerously outdated notions of a woman’s “modesty” and “virtue”and towards a judicial system that says sexual crime, domestic violence, and the abuse of women in all its forms is nothing less than an affront to their human rights.But I do not preach to these countries blind to our own failures, conference.Because we in Britain must admit that we have not solved the issue of violence against women.And that we have our own outdated cultural norms to overcome.Our country still has unacceptable levels of domestic violence, terrible conviction rates for rape, and a serious problem with human trafficking.It is simply not acceptable that in a modern democracy like ours, an average of two women a week are murdered by their partners or ex-partners.But neither is it acceptable for our law-makers, no matter how-well intentioned, to talk about rape in a way that seems both casual and callousAs a nation, and as a Government, we must be clear that we understand that rape and sexual violence is about power, not about sex.That what a woman wears, or does, or says, will never be justification for violence against her.And that abuse in the home, by someone you know, is no less traumatising than abuse by a stranger.



Vayutuvan
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Vayutuvan »

Why I am posting in UK thread? Because every Tom, Dick and Harry feels that they should stop meddling in others' affairs, that's why. And some people are not as nice as the Indians in telling them the same. Read on...
NightWatch For the night of 2 January 2013 wrote:Afghanistan: Former Afghanistan Prime Minister and enemy of the present regime, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, gave an interview to a British news outlet which was published today. He said Afghanistan will collapse into murderous civil war after NATO troops withdraw in 2014 - and expressed his determination to kill more British troops "so they could never make the mistake of coming again to this region."

Hekmatyar also indicated that his Hizb-e-Islami party was prepared to participate in the 2014 presidential elections. He insisted that he wanted a "peaceful transition" from the present Afghan government to a new administration based on "free and fair elections.

Comment: Hekmatyar qualifies as one of the most enduring and brutish political figures in Afghanistan. He was prime minister in 1996 before the Taliban took power, but has fought the US, Afghan and NATO forces implacably in the past ten years.

The significance of his statement is that the Pashtuns will fight to the departure of the last US soldier and are determined to govern Afghanistan again, by force or through elections. Hekmatyar understands how democracy works and can be derailed to legalize dictatorship. He has done it before and has now declared that is his future goal.

His message is bring on the elections-the Pashtuns outnumber all other ethnic or sectarian groups. In fair elections, the Pashtuns will always win, though not necessarily Hekmatyar's party.
devesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by devesh »

if and when India enters Afghanistan, we know what the priority should be. gather all the preexisting strongmen and put them out of their misery.
Atri
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Atri »

devesh wrote:if and when India enters Afghanistan, we know what the priority should be. gather all the preexisting strongmen and put them out of their misery.
Clear Hyderabad, before you enter Ganga valley.. Clear Ganga valley before you enter Punjab. Clear Punjab and Sindh, before you enter Gaandhaar..

This is Lesson 101 for establishing Hindavi Svarajya.. When India do not follow this sequence, she pays (and paid) heavily..
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Prem »

Atri wrote:
devesh wrote:if and when India enters Afghanistan, we know what the priority should be. gather all the preexisting strongmen and put them out of their misery.
Clear Hyderabad, before you enter Ganga valley.. Clear Ganga valley before you enter Punjab. Clear Punjab and Sindh, before you enter Gaandhaar.. This is Lesson 101 for establishing Hindavi Svarajya.. When India do not follow this sequence, she pays (and paid) heavily..
+1008
Paki strategic depth in HYD and Azamgarh !!
devesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by devesh »

Atri ji,

clearing GV and Punjab+Sindh are both long term projects. it will take a good generation before there is even an iota of common sense back in the Islamic populations. I don't think waiting to clear up GV before entering Punjab is a viable option. Punjab will feel betrayed and abandoned. we can't let such feelings fester and take root. Khalistan is, in a way, a result of the same feeling.

we have to enter both at once. MH, KT, AP, CT, MP, OR, and TN: these states will be the resource pool to extract 30-50 Lakh men and put them in the North. It will have to be an effort on the scale of a "Total War", in the European sense. simultaneous entry into Bengal, one flank moving across the coastal belt, the other taking the northern route through the hills/jungles; similarly spread into JK/Bihar, and isolate the Delhi/Harit-Pradesh from Awadh region. any move into the Punjab will have to be coordinate with a similar move into Sindh. and might even need to open up another channel from Kashmir into the Khyber region.

we cannot hope to retake the "lost" land piece-by-piece. the mentality of compromise will start setting in soon. at the outset, the goal and objective have to be clear to the population. even if Gandhar is kept out of any public discourse in the initial phase for tactical reasons, there cannot be any compromise or doubts on the Sapta-Sindhu area. that is the only way. otherwise, what happened to the Marathas will happen again. all sorts of "compulsions" and "tactical necessities" will pop up, which will mysteriously require compromising with the Mullahs and the theocracy. this was the beginning of the fall of Marathas. can we afford to repeat that again? how many cycles will we keep on repeating same mistakes? eventually, SD's spine will break, incapable of bearing any more burden.

piece-by-piece attack-win-retreat-loose-treaty will not work.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by RamaY »

Atri wrote:
devesh wrote:if and when India enters Afghanistan, we know what the priority should be. gather all the preexisting strongmen and put them out of their misery.
Clear Hyderabad, before you enter Ganga valley.. Clear Ganga valley before you enter Punjab. Clear Punjab and Sindh, before you enter Gaandhaar..

This is Lesson 101 for establishing Hindavi Svarajya.. When India do not follow this sequence, she pays (and paid) heavily..
+1008.

Before clearing Hyderabad, Bharat has to clear India.

Everything else will fall in line within 10 years.
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

RamaY wrote: Before clearing Hyderabad, Bharat has to clear India.
Will the Bharatiya Vayu Sena be expected to go to war with the Indian Air Force? :rotfl:
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

devesh wrote:Atri ji,

clearing GV and Punjab+Sindh are both long term projects. it will take a good generation before there is even an iota of common sense back in the Islamic populations. I don't think waiting to clear up GV before entering Punjab is a viable option. Punjab will feel betrayed and abandoned. we can't let such feelings fester and take root. Khalistan is, in a way, a result of the same feeling.

we have to enter both at once. MH, KT, AP, CT, MP, OR, and TN: these states will be the resource pool to extract 30-50 Lakh men and put them in the North. It will have to be an effort on the scale of a "Total War", in the European sense. simultaneous entry into Bengal, one flank moving across the coastal belt, the other taking the northern route through the hills/jungles; similarly spread into JK/Bihar, and isolate the Delhi/Harit-Pradesh from Awadh region. any move into the Punjab will have to be coordinate with a similar move into Sindh. and might even need to open up another channel from Kashmir into the Khyber region.

we cannot hope to retake the "lost" land piece-by-piece. the mentality of compromise will start setting in soon. at the outset, the goal and objective have to be clear to the population. even if Gandhar is kept out of any public discourse in the initial phase for tactical reasons, there cannot be any compromise or doubts on the Sapta-Sindhu area. that is the only way. otherwise, what happened to the Marathas will happen again. all sorts of "compulsions" and "tactical necessities" will pop up, which will mysteriously require compromising with the Mullahs and the theocracy. this was the beginning of the fall of Marathas. can we afford to repeat that again? how many cycles will we keep on repeating same mistakes? eventually, SD's spine will break, incapable of bearing any more burden.

piece-by-piece attack-win-retreat-loose-treaty will not work.
In the UK they have the Monster Raving Loony Party for propagating ideas like the above.
Last edited by eklavya on 07 Jan 2013 02:59, edited 1 time in total.
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

Anglo-Indians: Is their culture dying out?
It's uncertain how many Anglo-Indians remain in India, uncounted since a 1941 census. But the estimated 125,000, living mostly in Calcutta and Madras, are enacting the same assimilation - marrying Indians and adopting their culture. They are becoming indistinguishable.

"Previously, the community was too Anglicised - clinging to English traditions and customs," explains Philomena Eaton, convenor of the Calcutta Anglo-Indian Service Society. "But today it's clearly visible that they are much more integrated into society in customs, language, clothing, social interactions, etc. Many Anglos today can easily converse in Hindi and Bengali."
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by devesh »

"Monster Raving Loony Paty" -- are you sure you have the wording right?
the "monster" doesn't gel well with the "raving loony" bit.
please do consider a more appropriate choice, after all, we wouldn't want to insult the English language skills of the vaunted Brits.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

^^^ :)

Image
devesh
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by devesh »

^^^
you have clearly bowled me over with your soop-e-rear knowledge of Brit-land.
so, do we care to discuss how exactly we intend to rid of the Northern plains of the entrenched Islamic theocracy?

this is OT for this thread, of course, but I'll follow you into the appropriate thread, if you wish to discuss.
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

devesh, North India has a great many issues, but as an entrenched Islamic theocracy isn't one of them, that is one problem that need not occupy our minds.
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

brihaspati wrote:
Advait wrote:Al-BBC is just a few articles away from opening supporting terrorism against India. And there are still Indians who read it because of it will "improve their English".
We need to separate Britsh attitudes from their literary qualities. Whatever their continuing attitudes are towards India/Indians, we should separate out the aspects of their culture we 'like" and continue appreciating them.

PS: Oh it helps to ignore thinking on why or how we came to "like" what we "like" of aspects of British culture.
I sometimes find the same also applies to aspects of Indo-Persian architecture e.g. it helps to ignore thinking about why or how "we" (as in just about everbody on the planet who has seen it in person, in a photo, on TV, etc.) came to like what we like of aspects of Indo-Persian architecture, like the the Taj Mahal.

http://www.worldwanderingkiwi.com/wp-co ... -India.jpg
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Agnimitra »

devesh wrote:clearing GV and Punjab+Sindh are both long term projects. it will take a good generation before there is even an iota of common sense back in the Islamic populations. I don't think waiting to clear up GV before entering Punjab is a viable option. Punjab will feel betrayed and abandoned. we can't let such feelings fester and take root. Khalistan is, in a way, a result of the same feeling.
OARN, I posted this question on GDF:

Any reason Punjab has been kept out of the DMIC? It should have been a no-brainer to re-integrate the state even more, especially after industry fled the state during the militancy. Instead, it seems to have been isolated. The exclusion of Punjab from the ambitious DMIC project begs the question.

Punjab CM urges PM to extend Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor up to Amritsar
NEW DELHI: Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal Friday urged the Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh to extend the Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor (DMIC) up to Amritsar to boost industrial development in the state.

Badal called on the Prime Minister at his residence in New Delhi this morning to plead the case of extension of DMIC up to Amritsar which would give an impetus to an overall industrial growth in Punjab.

Giving details of the meeting, Chief Minister’s Media Advisor Mr. Harcharan Bains said that Mr. Badal informed the Prime Minister that Punjab was a landlocked state and the industry was also in a disadvantageous position, particularly after the withdrawal of freight equalization scheme viz-a-viz other coastal states. Now with the coming up of DMIC, the industries in states of Gujarat, Maharashtra and Haryana would get further boost for getting the investment and making the industry of these states more competitive. ...
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by johneeG »

eklavya wrote: I sometimes find the same also applies to aspects of Indo-Persian architecture e.g. it helps to ignore thinking about why or how "we" (as in just about everbody on the planet who has seen it in person, in a photo, on TV, etc.) came to like what we like of aspects of Indo-Persian architecture, like the the Taj Mahal.

http://www.worldwanderingkiwi.com/wp-co ... -India.jpg

'Indo-persian' architecture is Indian architecture only...
Taj Mahal is Tejo Mahalaya... just like several more islamic monuments are just occupied ones...

Taj Mahal: Was it a Vedic Temple?

The True Story of the Taj MahalThis article by P. N. Oak (from Pune, India) provides an overview of his research and lists his 109 proofs of how the Taj Mahal was a pre-existing Hindu temple palace, built not by Shah Jahan but originally at least 500 years earlier in 1155 AD by Raja Paramardi Dev as a Vedic temple. Mr. P. N. Oak is another who has done much research into this topic, and such a study is hardly complete without considering his findings. The evidence he presents here is a most interesting read, whether you agree with it all or not, or care for some of the anger in his sentiment. Mr. Oak has presented his own conclusions in his books, most notably Taj Mahal--The True Story (ISBN:

The Badshahnama. The Badshahnama is the history written by the Emperor's own chronicler. This page shows how Aurangzeb had acquired the Taj from the previous owner, Jai Singh, grandson of Raja Mansingh, after selecting this site for the burial of Queen Mumtaz.


There are some interesting photos... don't miss them.

Islam has tried to usurp Indian monuments and architecture, while europeans have tried to usurp Indian language and culture(they are trying to portray it as 'Indo-european'...)
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Unfortunately no english subtitles, those knowing hindi can understand, it'll blow your senses (It doesn't have anything to do with JLN, but about Indian Independence act 1947):

brihaspati
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

eklavya wrote:
brihaspati wrote: We need to separate Britsh attitudes from their literary qualities. Whatever their continuing attitudes are towards India/Indians, we should separate out the aspects of their culture we 'like" and continue appreciating them.

PS: Oh it helps to ignore thinking on why or how we came to "like" what we "like" of aspects of British culture.
I sometimes find the same also applies to aspects of Indo-Persian architecture e.g. it helps to ignore thinking about why or how "we" (as in just about everbody on the planet who has seen it in person, in a photo, on TV, etc.) came to like what we like of aspects of Indo-Persian architecture, like the the Taj Mahal.

http://www.worldwanderingkiwi.com/wp-co ... -India.jpg
You are of the opinion that this belongs to the thread? Not that it does not have merit of its own. By the way, is it fair to assume that everyone "appreciates" the stated building ? I for one never visited it. In our batch of students, half the group chose not to - along with me.

Any way, is there any Indo-UK connection ?

By the way, the Brits who occupied it when they ran in rampage over UP - actually had decided to demolish and sell off the place at first for scrap marble in 1831. See how much the British valued the place! Even Indians or others around did not offer the minimum satisfactory price of 1.5 lakhs! If Jats are considered Indians, they also didn't appreciate the building - besides the Brits of the stature of Bentinck - for they stripped it off a lot of "splendour".

People confused over their feelings over totalitarianisms as Islamism or communism, perhaps like Rabindranath Thakur, belong to the generation of Indians who swallowed the developing Victorian imperialist propaganda about Indo-Saracenic hocus-pocus and gushed about "tear drops in the face of time". Because the Brit imperialists and other icons like Rabindranath jumped into the band-wagon, perhaps a lot of other Indians felt compelled to mimic them to show that they were "cultured" and "loyal servants". Naturally, it perhaps helps to ignore how the whole game of Taj-appreciation started.

Yes the Taj Mahal cult has the Anglo-Islamic propaganda angle, and perhaps tenuously becomes relevant for the thread - but I am not so sure.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

On the question Britistan parties - here is a slightly dated but still illuminating picture about how what is usually dismissed as "loony" stuff [there we go again, its deja vu - Lord of the Moon used to frequently and obstinately apply the term "loony" fringe onlee to the "Hindu" or "saffron" or to any criticism of the Islamic+Anglo, and for him, all the loony stuff coming from the favoured ideologies were mere "extremism"!] is perhaps actually not so loony in real numbers as per yougov reports :

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/p ... 00557.html
Who voted BNP and why?

By Channel 4 News
Updated on 08 June 2009

Channel 4 News has been given exclusive access to a unique YouGov poll on BNP voters and their attitudes. Here YouGov President Peter Kellner gives his views on the poll's findings. The BNP won its first seats in the European parliament not because its supporters are all racist, but because many voters feel insecure and let down by the main parties.

[View the full YouGov results here (.pdf).] This finding emerges from the largest election survey ever conducted in Britain. Last week YouGov questioned more than 32,000 electors in order to understand not only the people who voted Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat, but those who backed the Greens, Ukip and the BNP.

Our sample included almost 1,000 BNP voters, and much larger numbers of those who backed the other five parties. As our final prediction poll was the most accurate of all the pre-election surveys, with an average error of just one point, we are confident of the results from this very large sample.

First, who voted BNP? They were mainly men: their voted divided 61 per cent male, 39 per cent female. (Men comprise just 48 per cent in the electorate as a whole.)

They were also more working-class. In the country at large, professional workers outnumber manual workers by 20 per cent to 18 per cent. Among BNP voters the pattern is very different: 36 per cent manual workers, 11 per cent professionals. One third of them read the Sun or Daily Star as against one in five adults generally; just 6 per cent of BNP voters read the upmarket papers (Times, Telegraph, Guardian etc), which is less than half the national average.

Yet the household income of the typical BNP voter (£27,000 a year) is only slightly below the national median (£29,000) – and not that far below that of a typical Conservative voter (£33,000).

It is not money that marks BNP voters apart as much as their insecurity. Just 19 per cent of BNP voters are "confident that my family will have the opportunities to prosper in the years ahead". This compares with 59 per cent of Labour voters, 47 per cent of Lib Dem and Green voters, and 42 per cent of Conservative voters.
Among Ukip voters the figure is also fairly low, at 28 per cent, which suggests that Ukip also picked up the votes of many who feel the traditional parties let them down – and not just on Europe.

Not surprisingly, BNP voters regard immigration as the top issue facing Britain. Fully 87 per cent of them told us it was one of their top three or four concerns. (This compares with a still-high 49 per cent among the public as a whole.)

But when people are shown the same list and asked which three or four issues "are the most important facing you and your family", the figure falls to 58 per cent. True, this is three times the national average of 20 per cent, yet it means that for almost half of BNP voters, immigration is NOT among the worries of day-to-day life.

We also find that most BNP voters do NOT subscribe to what might be described as "normal racist views". Just 44 per cent agreed with the party in rejecting the view that non-white citizens are just as British as white citizens. Yet the feeling is widespread that white Britons get a raw deal. Seventy seven per cent of BNP voters think white people suffer unfair discrimination these days. But that is also the views of 40 per cent of the public as a whole.

The average British voter is more likely to think that discrimination afflicts white people than Muslim or non-white people. And only seven per cent of the public think white people benefit from unfair advantages, while more than one in three think Muslim and non-white people receive unfair help.

Thus the BNP is tapping into some very widely held views, such as the desire to stop all immigration, and the belief that local councils "normally allow immigrant families to jump the queue in allocating council homes" (87 per cent of BNP voters think this, but so does 56 per cent of the public as a whole).

Yet, depending on how the term "racist" is precisely defined, our survey suggests that the label applies to only around a half of BNP voters. On their own, these votes would not have been enough to give the BNP either of the seats they won last night. There are two telling pieces of evidence that suggest wider causes of disenchantment. Seven out of 10 BNP voters (and almost as many Green and Ukip voters) think that "there is no real difference these between Britain’s three main parties".

But perhaps the most startling finding came when we tested anecdotal reports that many BNP voters were old Labour sympathisers who felt that the party no longer speaks up for them. It turns out to be true. As many as 59 per cent of BNP voters think that Labour "used to care about the concerns of people like me but doesn’t nowadays".

What is more worrying for Labour is that this sentiment is shared by millions of voters, way beyond the ranks of BNP voters. Overall, 63 per cent of the British public think Labour used to care about their concerns – and only 19 per cent think it does today. In contrast, just 29 per cent think the Conservatives used to care about their concerns; this figure has climbed to 37 per cent who think they care in the Cameron era.

Yes, Labour has a problem with voters deserting the party for the BNP. But its far bigger problem as it heads towards the next general election is to extinguish the overwhelming public view, reinforced by the scandal over MPs’ allowances, that today’s Labour Party is no longer on the side of ordinary voters. And that, more than anything else, is why its vote collapsed to just 16 per cent in the Euro election.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by brihaspati »

A non-loony way of doing the same thing that will get generic approval is illustrated in the following :
Reading Labour Party leaflet’s “born and bred” racist innuendo: will Labour now apologise and withdraw it?
http://stephentall.org/2012/04/07/readi ... thdraw-it/

Those who have a fine literary appreciation of the English language, as separated from any of its racist or imperialistic overtones, must recognize the beauty and normality of the phrases "born and bred" and "one of us" as completely innocuous, innocent. Crazy and loony to find fault with such an innocent expression!
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

johneeG wrote:
eklavya wrote: I sometimes find the same also applies to aspects of Indo-Persian architecture e.g. it helps to ignore thinking about why or how "we" (as in just about everbody on the planet who has seen it in person, in a photo, on TV, etc.) came to like what we like of aspects of Indo-Persian architecture, like the the Taj Mahal.

http://www.worldwanderingkiwi.com/wp-co ... -India.jpg

'Indo-persian' architecture is Indian architecture only...
Taj Mahal is Tejo Mahalaya... just like several more islamic monuments are just occupied ones...

Taj Mahal: Was it a Vedic Temple?

The True Story of the Taj MahalThis article by P. N. Oak (from Pune, India) provides an overview of his research and lists his 109 proofs of how the Taj Mahal was a pre-existing Hindu temple palace, built not by Shah Jahan but originally at least 500 years earlier in 1155 AD by Raja Paramardi Dev as a Vedic temple. Mr. P. N. Oak is another who has done much research into this topic, and such a study is hardly complete without considering his findings. The evidence he presents here is a most interesting read, whether you agree with it all or not, or care for some of the anger in his sentiment. Mr. Oak has presented his own conclusions in his books, most notably Taj Mahal--The True Story (ISBN:

The Badshahnama. The Badshahnama is the history written by the Emperor's own chronicler. This page shows how Aurangzeb had acquired the Taj from the previous owner, Jai Singh, grandson of Raja Mansingh, after selecting this site for the burial of Queen Mumtaz.


There are some interesting photos... don't miss them.

Islam has tried to usurp Indian monuments and architecture, while europeans have tried to usurp Indian language and culture(they are trying to portray it as 'Indo-european'...)
In matters of Indian architecture, the authority on the subject is the Archaeological Survey of India. This is what the ASI says about the Taj Mahal:

http://asi.nic.in/asi_monu_whs_agratajmahal.asp
Taj Mahal, the pinnacle of Mughal architecture, was built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan (1628-1658), grandson of Akbar the great, in the memory of his queen Arjumand Bano Begum, entitled ‘Mumtaz Mahal’. Mumtaz Mahal was a niece of empress Nur Jahan and granddaughter of Mirza Ghias Beg I’timad-ud-Daula, wazir of emperor Jehangir. She was born in 1593 and died in 1631, during the birth of her fourteenth child at Burhanpur. Her mortal remains were temporarily buried in the Zainabad garden. Six months later, her body was transferred to Agra to be finally enshrined in the crypt of the main tomb of the Taj Mahal. The Taj Mahal is the mausoleum of both Mumtaz Mahal and Shah Jahan.
Last edited by eklavya on 09 Jan 2013 05:11, edited 2 times in total.
eklavya
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

brihaspati wrote:By the way, is it fair to assume that everyone "appreciates" the stated building ?
The Taj Mahal is indeed a universal symbol of architectural beauty. That's not to say 'everyone' appreciates it, because, inter alia, some people get into a terrible muddle when it comes to art, literature, architecture, etc., produced by cultures other than their own. This is what the UN says:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/252
An immense mausoleum of white marble, built in Agra between 1631 and 1648 by order of the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his favourite wife, the Taj Mahal is the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage.
I leave it to you to quibble with the UN that they are either unwitting victims of and/or are willingly propagating "Anglo Islamic propaganda". :) But as you have not even seen the building, they may not give you much time.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

Interesting article on an India-born civil servant in the UK, currently leading the EBRD.
Canteen president at the EBRD

When a French reporter asked Sir Suma Chakrabarti if his appointment last May to head the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development represented an Anglo-Saxon takeover of a bank that had always been run by French or Germans, his reply was ready. “Do I look like an Anglo-Saxon?” responded the man born in West Bengal.

As a British national and a non-banker, Sir Suma is a far from typical head of the lender that helped finance eastern Europe’s transition to market-based democracy, and has been mandated by the G20 to do the same in “Arab spring” countries. But then, in his previous life as a high-flying UK civil servant, Sir Suma was hardly a typical “Sir Humphrey” – the quintessential Whitehall high-flyer of Yes, Minister TV show fame.

He embodies the modernising, shirtsleeved culture that swept through parts of the UK civil service over the past decade or so. Now he is bringing that modernising spirit to the EBRD – although he insists this is not simply, as some have suggested, about transplanting a British culture to a quasi-Franco-German institution.

“I don’t see it that way,” he says, speaking in his modest office at the EBRD’s headquarters in London, overlooking the City. “I’m at my most comfortable in a multicultural setting. I’m multicultural in my own right. I have more than one identity – I feel Indian, English, European, multilateral – many identities.”

His appointment to head the EBRD last year was a surprise, even controversial. Thanks to informal understandings when the multilateral lend­er was set up in 1991, all five previous presidents had been Franco-German choices endorsed by the bank’s 66 country shareholders. When that arrangement unravelled, Sir Suma became the first president elected in an open shareholder vote.

Luckily, Sir Suma is comfortable with controversy. He hit the headlines in 2002, not because at 42 he had bec­ome the civil service’s youngest and the first Asian-born permanent secretary – the top position for an un­elected official in a government department – but because of his work arrangements.

He agreed with Clare Short, then secretary of state at the Department for International Dev­el­opment, to ar­range his hours so he could breakfast with and read at bedtime to his young daughter. He made up the typical permanent secretary’s long hours by working once she fell asleep. On Fridays he worked from the family’s Oxford home, hooked up to Whitehall – and the department’s overseas outposts – by video conferencing.

Being labelled by newspapers as the “part-time perm sec” with the “bedtime deadline” was “weird”, he says. But the move helped him promote flexible working arrangements at the department, and later as head of the 95,000-strong Ministry of Justice.

Now he is pushing for similar flexibility as part of the cultural and management shake-up at the EBRD. In his campaign for the job, he made two broad pledges – to be an accessible “canteen president”, and a more “activist CEO-type” leader at the bank, which – despite its reputation for effectiveness – he felt was “undermanaged”.

Sir Suma has introduced floor walks, town hall meetings, and open-door sessions on Fridays. Many bosses start with good intentions such as these then end up ground down by the process. But Sir Suma insists he “gets a lot of energy out of this” – “I feel better for it, because I know what the hell they’re thinking.”

Meanwhile, 12 internal task forces have been reviewing the bank’s workings. Sir Suma brandishes recommendations on how to im­prove structures and communications, break down silos and encourage mobility between HQ and country offices.

As a non-banker and outsider, did he face suspicion? “No one has ever said that to my face. But did some people think it? Of course they did,” he says, matter of factly.

Privately, senior bank insiders welcome his accessibility and “intellectual input”, though some grumble that the management review tied up too many resources.

For Sir Suma, the exercise has been about ensuring that the bank – the only multilateral lender with a specific democracy-building mandate and a specialist at lending to the private sector – is equipped for its current expansion into Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan and Egypt, and potentially beyond.

His persuasive skills ap­pear to have overcome initial French and German suspicions and won over the board. He is pleased, for instance, that the EBRD has agreed to break national locks on other top jobs. The recent search for a new first vice-president to oversee banking operations – a role traditionally held by an American – involved 850 applicants, psychometric testing and multiple interview stages. The winning candidate, as it happens, was a joint US-UK citizen, Philip Bennett, a longtime Citigroup banker. The important thing, says Sir Suma, is that the search was passport-blind.

Such multiculturalism may be in­grain­ed. His family moved from Calcutta to Britain when he was five so his father could complete a PhD. They went home five years later but after unrest by Maoist Naxalite insurgents closed Sir Suma’s school, he ret­urned with his mother – splitting the family in a “dif­ficult” way – to complete his schooling be­fore studying at New College, Oxford.

Insiders say he could have become head of the civil service, but instead he pursued the EBRD post. Because the job involves extensive travel visiting the bank’s shareholders and 34 countries of operation, he made sure he secured the support of his wife and daughter first. “She’s 17 now,” he says. “I think she’d be more worried if I stayed at home all the time.”

The travel – 18 countries so far – has borne fruit. Several international lenders joined the EBRD in November in a €30bn lending plan to support growth in eastern European economies hit by the eurozone crisis.

Sir Suma says he is worried about the effects of the slowdown, especially in southeast Europe. “If you look at growth rates, and the un­employment numbers, these are not great. And if you look at the way some political parties are coming through in some countries, it’s not great.”

So that means plenty more travel. “Whether I keep up this pace, I think my body will tell me,” he says. “But I don’t promise to let up.”
The CV
● Born: 1959, in Jalpaiguri, West Bengal
● Education: BA University of Oxford; MA University of Sussex
● Career: 1981 Appointed Overseas Development Institute fellow, Botswana
● 1984 Joins the Overseas Development Administration with secondments to the IMF and World Bank
● 1996 Joins HM Treasury
● 1998 Appointed to Cabinet Office performance and innovation unit
● 2001 Named regional director, Department for International Development
● 2002 Appointed permanent secretary, DFID
● 2008 Appointed permanent secretary, Ministry of Justice
● 2012 Appointed president, EBRD
● Family: Married to Mari Sako, management studies professor at Oxford university’s Saïd Business School; one daughter
● Interests: Indian history, soul music, football
Agnimitra
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Agnimitra »

eklavya wrote:The Taj Mahal is indeed a universal symbol of architectural beauty. That's not to say 'everyone' appreciates it, because, inter alia, some people get into a terrible muddle when it comes to art, literature, architecture, etc., produced by cultures other than their own.
eklavya ji, I personally find the Taj Mahal rather exquisite. But what I don't understand is this: More than all other other "Indo-Saracenic" monuments we have, this one is very Persian. In fact, there are many buildings like it in Iran itself. You should go and check it out, and like me, you will marvel at all that beauty even though its from a culture admittedly not our own. But could you help me understand why the UN has not selected any "Wonder of the World" from Iran itself? Iran has no paucity of beautiful architecture much like the Taj Mahal - in fact from the same school of architecture. Instead, the Hagia Sofia from Turkey has been selected, and an extremely Persian Taj Mahal from India, while Iran itself is left out! India has such a wealth of other architecture (even what's left) that one wonders why they picked the Taj Mahal. And if that's the style that fascinates them, they could have had their fill in Iran, which has been completely ignored. That's a question my Iranian friends have - how would you answer them?

Thanks for filling us in on the universal values the UN espouses. It may help expand our minds, I suppose. But this interesting geographical selection of "wonders" seems a little strange to some of us. Apart from teaching us to appreciate other cultures, wouldn't you agree there is good reason for our suspicions? :wink:
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by krisna »

^^^^
eklavya wrote:
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/252
An immense mausoleum of white marble, built in Agra between 1631 and 1648 by order of the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his favourite wife, the Taj Mahal is the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage.
This should be in offtopic or any other threads strictly

1) Does Islam permit mausoleum as in Tajmahal. Islam never allows graves to be of pleasure.
2) Taj Mahal looks unislamic in name. there are many islamic buildings etc which have distinct Islamic name.
Lot more questions, but no answers.

guess we will never know of those times.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

Carl wrote:
eklavya wrote:The Taj Mahal is indeed a universal symbol of architectural beauty. That's not to say 'everyone' appreciates it, because, inter alia, some people get into a terrible muddle when it comes to art, literature, architecture, etc., produced by cultures other than their own.
eklavya ji, I personally find the Taj Mahal rather exquisite. But what I don't understand is this: More than all other other "Indo-Saracenic" monuments we have, this one is very Persian. In fact, there are many buildings like it in Iran itself. You should go and check it out, and like me, you will marvel at all that beauty even though its from a culture admittedly not our own. But could you help me understand why the UN has not selected any "Wonder of the World" from Iran itself? Iran has no paucity of beautiful architecture much like the Taj Mahal - in fact from the same school of architecture. Instead, the Hagia Sofia from Turkey has been selected, and an extremely Persian Taj Mahal from India, while Iran itself is left out! India has such a wealth of other architecture (even what's left) that one wonders why they picked the Taj Mahal. And if that's the style that fascinates them, they could have had their fill in Iran, which has been completely ignored. That's a question my Iranian friends have - how would you answer them?

Thanks for filling us in on the universal values the UN espouses. It may help expand our minds, I suppose. But this interesting geographical selection of "wonders" seems a little strange to some of us. Apart from teaching us to appreciate other cultures, wouldn't you agree there is good reason for our suspicions? :wink:
Carl, among the World Heritage sites recognised by UNESCO, there are several in Iran:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/ir

The Taj Mahal is not the only Indian site on the UNESCO World Heritage list. There are several others:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/in
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Agnimitra »

eklavya wrote:Carl, among the World Heritage sites recognised by UNESCO, there are several in Iran:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/ir

The Taj Mahal is not the only Indian site on the UNESCO World Heritage list. There are several others:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/in
Of course Iran has "heritage", we hardly need the UN to acknowledge that. But we're talking about the famously designated "wonders of the world". IIRC, nothing from Iran figures in the wonders of the ancient world, nor the wonders of the modern world. Secondly, it is a bit of a stretch to say that they couldn't find anything other than the Taj Mahal in all of India, even though a lot of the other stuff has been destroyed or mutilated. And if they liked the Taj so much, then as my Iranian friends say, "We have many Taj Mahals in Isfahan!". Surely it begs the question, and I think you understand that.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by eklavya »

^^^^

http://whc.unesco.org/en/news/352
Monday, July 9, 2007

In order to avoid any damaging confusion, UNESCO wishes to reaffirm that there is no link whatsoever between UNESCO's World Heritage programme, which aims to protect world heritage, and the current campaign concerning "The New 7 Wonders of the World".

This campaign was launched in 2000 as a private initiative by Bernard Weber, the idea being to encourage citizens around the world to select seven new wonders of the world by popular vote.
Although UNESCO was invited to support this project on several occasions, the Organization decided not to collaborate with Mr. Weber.
As for your Iranian friends, you should have asked them to vote to their heart's content for their choice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New7Wonders_of_the_World
New 7 Wonders of the World (2001-2007) was an initiative started in 2001 to choose Wonders of the World from a selection of 200 existing monuments. The popularity poll was led by Canadian-Swiss Bernard Weber[1] and organized by the New7Wonders Foundation based in Zurich, Switzerland, with winners announced on July 7, 2007 in Lisbon.[2]

The New7Wonders Foundation claimed that more than 100 million votes were cast through the Internet or by telephone. Nothing prevented multiple votes, so the poll was considered "decidedly unscientific".[3] According to John Zogby, founder and current President/CEO of the Utica, New York-based polling organization Zogby International, New7Wonders Foundation drove "the largest poll on record".[2]

The program drew a wide range of official reactions. Some countries touted their finalist and tried to get more votes cast for it, while others downplayed or criticized the contest.[2][2][3] After supporting the New7Wonders Foundation at the beginning of the campaign, by providing advice on nominee selection, the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) distanced itself from the undertaking in 2007.[4][5]
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by Agnimitra »

^^^Sigh. eklavya ji, you really don't have to run around defending the UN so much. I have no issues with UNESCO. But were the "ancient" wonders of the world also decided by popular vote? Did Indians vote for the Taj Mahal to be made India's wonder of the world? I think you understand very well what the issues here are.
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Re: Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Post by VikramS »

Eklavya:

I am curious. Why do you feel that what the UN says or does has a lot of credibility?

At the end of the day it is an organization which has a P5 which includes has-been powers like UK/France but excludes power houses like Germany or even Japan. Of course the question of India is always there, but I digress.

Who do you think controls what the UN says about the rest of the world, especially when it comes to subjective issues like which are the wonders of the world or UN heritage sites?

Mind you there are many conservative Americans who want the US to dump the UN..
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