Kurdistan - An Indian National Interest

[UlanBatori]

Only if India is directly aiming for confrontation (I mean diplo) with Turkey. PKK is absolute anathema to Turkey, worse than L-e-T to India. Yes, PLO was allowed (I assume that was the Age of Non-Alignment), but with what benefit to either India or Palestinians? A PKK recognition will undermine India's interest in Balochistan as well.

It would be good if India could change world opinion on the Kurds enough to induce Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq to allow them some sort of contiguous territory with easy movement of people, basic human rights protections etc., well short of either "autonomy" let alone "independence". BUT... there is as much chance right now as of MBS joining the Sangh Parivar. So instead of burning credibility and destroying the arguments about Cashmore being an Infernal Attair (or was it Internal Affair) etc, this is a time for being quiet and trying to do what can be done to help Kurdish refugees.

And shutting up when Gen. Smirnoff etc do their thing - or the SDF suddenly becomes capable of destroying the Turkish tank columns.

[Rony]

French President Macron has met with Jihan Sheikh Ahmed, the spokeswoman of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), to express France's solidarity with them .

France's Macron met spokeswoman of Kurdish-led Syria SDF forces

[UlanBatori]

Wonder what "French solidarity" buys. Aren't they part of the same NATO that is bombing/backstabbing them? How about sending a few Rafales from Le Barrel de Champagne Floatinge to stop the Turks?

[UlanBatori]

Iran launches Special Forces Maneuvers on Turkish border

the drill in Qushchi, in Iran’s Western Azerbaijan province, is overseen by Maj. Gen. Abdolrahim Mousavi, chief of Iran’s army.
The report didn’t mention the expected Turkish operation nor elaborate on the number of troops taking part in the drill. The area is about 620km, or 385 miles, northwest of Tehran.

[UlanBatori]

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
@RTErdogan
#OperationPeaceSpring will neutralize terror threats against Turkey and lead to the establishment of a safe zone, facilitating the return of Syrian refugees to their homes.
We will preserve Syria’s territorial integrity and liberate local communities from terrorists.

I begin to wonder if Erdogan is doing what he is doing on orders of Comrade ******.

[UlanBatori]

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
✔
@RTErdogan
· 7h
The Turkish Armed Forces, together with the Syrian National Army, just launched #OperationPeaceSpring against PKK/YPG and Daesh terrorists in northern Syria. Our mission is to prevent the creation of a terror corridor across our southern border, and to bring peace to the area.

Who is "Syrian National Army"? Hope not the White Helmet Moderate Child-Beheaders?

[UlanBatori]

A small observation: The region where the Turks are invading is far away from Idlib where I thought the Turkish-backed terrorists were camped out - and where the Russians bombed a Turkish convoy recently. ????

[UlanBatori]

Worth a read: Russian officer's analysis of Turkey, NATO etc
So it is real: Putin, Erdogan all on same page, DT just pulled out of the way at the right time. Cleaning up Syrian territory.

[hgupta]

The author is speaking from a russian point of view. However, from an outsider's point of view, Russia is no EU or US. The EU and US represent the two largest markets in the world in terms of dollars. China is a distant second off by trillions of dollars. If Erdogan wants to keep Turkey's economy humming along and keep internal dissent quiet, Turkey cannot afford to alienate EU or US. Russia cannot replace EU or US. So US and EU do have a lot of pull. As for controlling the refugee exodus, it is even made easier with the expulsion of Turkey from NATO. For starters, the refugees would have to cross from Turkey to Greece and it is very easy to control the refugee exodus on the Greek border. Secondly, Greece would be in a far stronger position against Turkey in claiming sovereignty rights over many islands in the Aegean Sea and the Med.

Don't mistake the US/Trump's reticence over intervening in northern Syria against Turkey as a weakening of EU or US's positions.

[UlanBatori]

Edrogan declares Mission Accomplished. US Deep State entities livid (Susan Rice, Nikki Haley, Lindsey Graham..) Putin silent.

[mody]

Putin and Erdogan have been on the same page in Syria for a while now. When Turkey had shot down a couple of Russian jets, the things had come to a head, but then both have come to an understanding. The last resistance against Assad and the Russians in western Syria, will fall and Turkey will not offer any support to sunni arab madcaps fighting there.

Putin will let Turkey roast the Kurds and then pull out of Syrian territory. No one trusts the Kurds and they still hold a large hoard of US supplied weapons and money. They will exhaust quite a lot of it, fighting the turks and will not present a big and emminent military challenge to Assad.
If the SDF had been left as is, they would have surely formed a semi autonomous region, along with northern Iraq for the Kurds. Something that Assad and Putin don't want, neither does Iran or Iraq. Consolidation and strengthening of Kurds is in no ones interest in the ME.
If the turks are fighting them, good, let both sides kill each in good measure.

Personally I just hope, the losses on Turkish side are also significant, both in terms of casualties and money drained in the operation.

[UlanBatori]

Time for US Deep State to do what it does best: Form the Free Turkish Army (FTA) inside Turkey. Send ATGMs and Stingers. Drones. Tons of C-4. With Baksheesh for all involved.

[ramana]

Only if India is directly aiming for confrontation (I mean diplo) with Turkey. PKK is absolute anathema to Turkey, worse than L-e-T to India. Yes, PLO was allowed (I assume that was the Age of Non-Alignment), but with what benefit to either India or Palestinians? A PKK recognition will undermine India's interest in Balochistan as well.

It would be good if India could change world opinion on the Kurds enough to induce Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq to allow them some sort of contiguous territory with easy movement of people, basic human rights protections etc., well short of either "autonomy" let alone "independence". BUT... there is as much chance right now as of MBS joining the Sangh Parivar. So instead of burning credibility and destroying the arguments about Cashmore being an Infernal Attair (or was it Internal Affair) etc, this is a time for being quiet and trying to do what can be done to help Kurdish refugees.

And shutting up when Gen. Smirnoff etc do their thing - or the SDF suddenly becomes capable of destroying the Turkish tank columns.

No need to be afraid of PKK. Kurdish will be supported for self determination.
its a travesty that the British and French divided the Kurds between Turkey, Syria and Iraq . Perhaps revenge of the crusaders on Kurds for Saladin defeating Richard III.
After all David Lloyd George and Gen. Allenby danced a jig in Jerusalem in 1919 as Crusades finally mission accomplished.

I would not be surprised inf Kurdish National Front opens an office in Chanakyapuri.

[UlanBatori]

Given sharp rise in pleasantries between Dilli and Ankara, I c that recognition for Kurdistan is entirely possible. BUT ... it either means a bold Indian policy that also recognizes Free Balochistan (with agreement from Iran) or it will hurt the chances of Balochistan.
Maybe, given how far out on a limb Dimran has gone on the J&K issues, India is willing to call TSP's bluff and recognize Balochistan. Then Pakhtoonistan.
It's a nice chance: even DT will not really object, because India is also pro-SyrianTerritorial Integrity. Only support Kurdistan carved out of Turkey.

[vimal]

Perfect timing for India to needle Turkey after Erdogandu crossed the line on Kashmir.
I'm really sad that India is lacking in the 5th gen warfare. An army of bots by now should've destroyed the Turks.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/t ... 2019-10-10

India slams Turkey's military offensive in Syria
A Ministry of External Affairs statement said that Turkey's action also has the potential for causing humanitarian and civilian distress.

India on Thursday slammed Turkey's unilateral military offensive in northeast Syria, saying it can undermine stability in the region and the fight against terrorism.

In a statement, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said, "We are deeply concerned at the unilateral military offensive by Turkey in north-east Syria."

It said that Turkey's action also has the potential for causing humanitarian and civilian distress.

New Delhi called upon Ankara to exercise restraint and respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria. India also urged for peaceful settlement of all issues through dialogue and discussion.

[Supratik]

This war between Turks and Kurds would have happened sooner or later. Since both are some sort of allies the Americans stayed neutral. Good for the Kurds. Hope they are prepared. Chance to expand their homeland.

[ramana]

This war between Turks and Kurds would have happened sooner or later. Since both are some sort of allies the Americans stayed neutral. Good for the Kurds. Hope they are prepared. Chance to expand their homeland.

It has been a long civil war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E ... 93present)


It picked up with the Turks capturing the PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan in 1999.
He founded the PKK in 1978. This war has been going on since 1978.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan ... s%27_Party

[KLNMurthy]

Only if India is directly aiming for confrontation (I mean diplo) with Turkey. PKK is absolute anathema to Turkey, worse than L-e-T to India. Yes, PLO was allowed (I assume that was the Age of Non-Alignment), but with what benefit to either India or Palestinians? A PKK recognition will undermine India's interest in Balochistan as well.

It would be good if India could change world opinion on the Kurds enough to induce Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq to allow them some sort of contiguous territory with easy movement of people, basic human rights protections etc., well short of either "autonomy" let alone "independence". BUT... there is as much chance right now as of MBS joining the Sangh Parivar. So instead of burning credibility and destroying the arguments about Cashmore being an Infernal Attair (or was it Internal Affair) etc, this is a time for being quiet and trying to do what can be done to help Kurdish refugees.

And shutting up when Gen. Smirnoff etc do their thing - or the SDF suddenly becomes capable of destroying the Turkish tank columns.

If India were to be actually Chankian, GoI / RAW agints would orchestrate a faction of Indian Communists to start shouting slogans about solidarity with PKK, who are Turkey's Naxalites in a manner of speaking. Funnel funds to PKK through CPI(ML-pro-PKK) faction.

[UlanBatori]

Could send the whole DYFI and CPI(M) and CPI(M/M/M) to fight the Turks.

[A_Gupta]

Turkey, Iraq, Iran are the classical European Westphalian nations - single religion, single language, etc., define a "nation", though Turkey was easing up on all its restrictions on Kurdish. I mean, per Wiki, "prior to 2013 the use of Kurdish names containing the letters X, W, and Q, which do not exist in the Turkish alphabet, was not allowed".

These b**t*rds lecture India on how to treat Kashmiris. In terms of what they can name their kids, Kashmiris have infinitely more freedom than the Kurds.

[nachiket]

Iraq is not exactly single-religion due to the Shia-Sunni divide.

[kit]

Perfect timing for India to needle Turkey after Erdogandu crossed the line on Kashmir.
I'm really sad that India is lacking in the 5th gen warfare. An army of bots by now should've destroyed the Turks.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/t ... 2019-10-10

India slams Turkey's military offensive in Syria
A Ministry of External Affairs statement said that Turkey's action also has the potential for causing humanitarian and civilian distress.

India on Thursday slammed Turkey's unilateral military offensive in northeast Syria, saying it can undermine stability in the region and the fight against terrorism.

In a statement, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said, "We are deeply concerned at the unilateral military offensive by Turkey in north-east Syria."

It said that Turkey's action also has the potential for causing humanitarian and civilian distress.

New Delhi called upon Ankara to exercise restraint and respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria. India also urged for peaceful settlement of all issues through dialogue and discussion.

You said it correctly. Indias foreign policy should sync with its cyber capabilities, intelligence and information warfare and finally its military and covert operations ., there are times only a nudge is required instead of a sledge hammer as a means of "encouragement " to see one's side.

[Rony]

Turkey, Iraq, Iran are the classical European Westphalian nations - single religion, single language, etc., define a "nation", though Turkey was easing up on all its restrictions on Kurdish. I mean, per Wiki, "prior to 2013 the use of Kurdish names containing the letters X, W, and Q, which do not exist in the Turkish alphabet, was not allowed".

These b**t*rds lecture India on how to treat Kashmiris. In terms of what they can name their kids, Kashmiris have infinitely more freedom than the Kurds.

Iraq has a Sunni-Shia divide. Iran is multi ethnic as well and persian is only spoken only by just little over 50%, although officially its supposed to be the lingua franca. In Turkey, although "Turks" are the dominant group, the very definition of 'Turk' itself is ambiguous and problematic. Historically a Turk in Anatolia (especially during ottoman times) is simply every Muslim in the empire, irrespective whether he is a turk, kurd, arab, persian etc. Even today, many Kurds, arabs, albanians complain that their real figures are suppressed and many of them are grouped as turks in the census.

[Philip]

What the US should've done was to replace US troops with a UN force of mixed nationalities.The US however remembers the UN onlh when it wants a fig- leaf UN decision to invade smaller nations and bomb them to smithereens.

[ramana]

Philip lets stop thinking what US should do or not do.
lets think of what India can do.

I think end goal is to create Anatolia and Kurdistan.

To get there, Kurds have to pledge like Macedonia that they will not seek merger of Kurdish regions in Iran, Iraq or Syria.
Kurds are 40% of population in Turkey.
The geo-political need for Turkey is over with demise of Ottoman and Soviet Union.
Besides a viable Turkey was a bulwark against Soviet Union from entering the Mediterranean region.
The British and French divided the Kurds among these countries to make Turkey viable and also as revenge on the Crusades for Saladin having defeated them.

[SRajesh]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183686442142388226
Too graphic the video
Why is US/EU/Champions of Human rights and democracy keeping quiet.
Remember Dafur/Kosovo etc and the huge din
All quiet now and poor Kurds are getting slaughtered

[A_Gupta]

What makes the (one-time US-backed) Kurds into an effective fighting force, e.g. against ISIS, when the US-backed Afghan army, the US-backed Iraqi army, the sort-of-US-backed Saudi army are not?

[vimal]

There is a massive anti Turk propaganda going on in CNN/NBC and other news outlet in USA. Everyone is calling Kurds as "our allies" and Turkey an enemy. Just a year ago I would hear of Turkey as "key Nato ally" those days seemed to have passed.
Or most likely this is just a smokescreen to cover for US complicity in these crimes.
I wonder if DT stepped on the wrong one with his decision to withdraw from Syria, it seems.

[V_Raman]

what if this turns into NATO actually attacking Turkey? Why would Ergodan willingly get into such a situation?

[Rony]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183686442142388226
Too graphic the video
Why is US/EU/Champions of Human rights and democracy keeping quiet.
Remember Dafur/Kosovo etc and the huge din
All quiet now and poor Kurds are getting slaughtered

Here is another one. could not watch it.

https://twitter.com/ClaudiaAlMinah/stat ... 0029732868

Where are Malays and that old jihadi b%stard Mahathir Mohammed , and wanna be turks Pakis ? Are Kurds not muslims ?

[CalvinH]

What makes the (one-time US-backed) Kurds into an effective fighting force, e.g. against ISIS, when the US-backed Afghan army, the US-backed Iraqi army, the sort-of-US-backed Saudi army are not?

Kurds are more cohesive in terms of ethnicity and as a fighting force. They will stand and fight for their people and culture. Weapon and training is all they need.

[CalvinH]

There is a massive anti Turk propaganda going on in CNN/NBC and other news outlet in USA. Everyone is calling Kurds as "our allies" and Turkey an enemy. Just a year ago I would hear of Turkey as "key Nato ally" those days seemed to have passed.
Or most likely this is just a smokescreen to cover for US complicity in these crimes.
I wonder if DT stepped on the wrong one with his decision to withdraw from Syria, it seems.

CNN/NBC are doing it because DT took the decision. Nothing more to it.

[A_Gupta]

I suppose this is all "deep-state" CNN/NBC....

For once, Republicans have forcefully spoken out against Mr. Trump. Graham said our Kurdish allies had been “shamelessly abandoned by the Trump administration.” Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking Republican in the House, said Trump’s decision is having “sickening and predictable” consequences. Representative Adam Kinzinger, an Air Force veteran, said on Face the Nation that “leaving an ally behind … is disheartening, depressing.” He added, “The Kurds found out on Twitter, for goodness’ sake. We have left them to the wolves. And the message this is sending to our allies around the world, I think, is really going to be bad.” Senator Mitt Romney, the Republican lawmaker who has been the most willing to speak the truth about Trump, declared on Twitter, “The President’s decision to abandon our Kurd allies in the face of an assault by Turkey is a betrayal.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... xt/600004/

[CalvinH]

Not sure where interests of others lie but for CNN/NBC this a great subject to attack Trump.

[SRajesh]

Turkey, Iraq, Iran are the classical European Westphalian nations - single religion, single language, etc., define a "nation", though Turkey was easing up on all its restrictions on Kurdish. I mean, per Wiki, "prior to 2013 the use of Kurdish names containing the letters X, W, and Q, which do not exist in the Turkish alphabet, was not allowed".

These b**t*rds lecture India on how to treat Kashmiris. In terms of what they can name their kids,

Kashmiris have infinitely more freedom than the Kurds.

Guptaji
Also correct me it I am wrong : India is the only place (compared to all the peaceful nations!! ) that various muslim sects are allowed complete freedom and there is very little of Green on Green action!
Yet when it come to us vs them situation they all gang up on the non-peacfuls

[ramana]

https://besacenter.org/perspectives-pap ... ingmakers/

Looks like our nine year old thread was prescient!!!

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Between 1994 and 2015, the Kurdish vote in Turkey rose from 4.1% to 13.1%. A greying Turkey is facing a baby boom in Kurdistan: the Kurdish fertility rate, at 3.41, is a demographic weapon against the Turkish fertility rate of 2.09. These numbers suggest that Kurds could be the kingmakers in Turkey’s presidential election in 2023.