The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 26 Aug 2011 12:26

Aditya_V, yest they were talking and went on record abt 184 that entails voting, chameleons

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 26 Aug 2011 12:29

Its safe to say that Congress does not know what it is doing. Different people in congress are saying different things at the same thing and taking a large number of people who are on the streets through wide mood swings. I don't see how this is anything but a recipe for disaster.

They have NO intention of bringing this bill into law.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Aug 2011 13:21

No money to combat the Chinese,who according to the US are massively accelerating the strength of their armed forces along with their provocative stance all across Asia,but as mentioned above Man Mubarak Singh has a blank cheque for Kalmadi and Dixit,while Raja and Kani are allowed to loot and scoot! Uncle Scam's statement in the house "will go down in infamy" like the Jap attack on Pearl.

"I am not corrupt" said Man Mohan Singh,
"I am not a crook" said Richard Nixon,
The Congress familia has such an honest ring,
Especially when led by a Mafiosi Vixen!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Aug 2011 13:39

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Sanku wrote: Army seems to have all but revolted with the muck raking the Govt did with the chief.
Sanku have you seen this video:

Thanks, I had seen it in the IA thread.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 26 Aug 2011 14:01

Since RG has suggested that LokPal be a Constitutional Body instead of a Statutory body, it might be a good idea to understand the difference between the two ... Will give us an idea behind Congress's gameplan w.r.t Janlokpal

Quoting from another forum (mods please remove if it is in-appropriate)

Source

A statutory body
created by an Act of Parliament and can simply be abolished by an act of the parliament with simple majority.
e.g. CAT,CVC,CIC.

Constitutional authorities,
are written into the Constitution of a nation
and can't be abolished without amending that part of the Constitution (which sometimes needs special majority) & sometimes also requires consent of the states. And also can be invalidated by the Supreme court.
e.g. EC,CAG,SC/ST Commission.

Immunities given to Constitutional bodies

1. they can be removed : only on proved misbehavior. and its the Supreme court that Decided whether they misbehaved or not. = their office doesn't depend on the ruling party's majority in the Parliament.

2. their salary, powers and rights are mentioned in the Constitution itself-and parliament can't reduce it once they're appointed. Its charged on the Consolidated Fund of India = Parliament can't vote on It during budget. (however the salary can be reduced if President declares a financial emergency.)

and if parliament wants to do this- then they need to amend the Constitution. and Supreme Court has power to invalidate it, if found inconsistent with the basic principles/Structure.

Such immunities are not enjoyed by Statutory bodies.

the main difference we can say is the Word may and Shall

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 26 Aug 2011 14:13

Also please note that for a Constitutional body to be created, it will need an amendment to the Constitution of India .. the rules for amendments are defined under Article 368 of the constitution. One of the key points is

2) An amendment of this Constitution may be initiated only by the introduction of a Bill for the purpose in either House of Parliament, and when the Bill is passed in each House by a majority of the total membership of that House and by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the members of that House present and voting, it shall be presented to the President who shall give his assent to the Bill and thereupon the Constitution shall stand amended in accordance with the terms of the Bill:

Source

whereas a statutory body (as demanded by Team Anna) only requires a simple majority in the House and no constitutional amendments ...

So basically Congress is trying to stall for time ...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Aug 2011 14:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:From facebook

I'm pretty sure that says 2.5 Million Franken. Why destroy your credibility so pointlessly. Still quite a bit of cash for 1990, esp. during the forex crisis.

During Bofors a reporter asked Rajiv point blank who took kick back is going to jail and and Rajiv is said to have turned white with fright. The big accounts were probably in Sonia's name.

Not bad what do they do with this kind of money ?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Aug 2011 14:39

Austin wrote: Not bad what do they do with this kind of money ?

Buy perpetual power.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 26 Aug 2011 15:08

I'm pretty sure that says 2.5 Million Franken. Why destroy your credibility so pointlessly.

Not so sure...

Millionen -> Millions (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million)
Milliarden -> Billions (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliarde)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Aug 2011 15:34

aditya wrote:
I'm pretty sure that says 2.5 Million Franken. Why destroy your credibility so pointlessly.
Not so sure...

Millionen -> Millions (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million)
Milliarden -> Billions (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliarde)

Good catch. It is Millarden

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Aug 2011 16:05

"Milady" Maino MIllarden,Billarden whatever! She along with Premier Rich-Singh vs D'Artagn-Anna and the three other Musketeeers,Kejiriwal,Bedi and Bushan! What a great Bollywood tamasha it will make.RGV,are you listening?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Aug 2011 16:06

AnimeshP wrote:Also please note that for a Constitutional body to be created, it will need an amendment to the Constitution of India .. the rules for amendments are defined under Article 368 of the constitution. One of the key points is

2) An amendment of this Constitution may be initiated only by the introduction of a Bill for the purpose in either House of Parliament, and when the Bill is passed in each House by a majority of the total membership of that House and by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the members of that House present and voting, it shall be presented to the President who shall give his assent to the Bill and thereupon the Constitution shall stand amended in accordance with the terms of the Bill:
Source

whereas a statutory body (as demanded by Team Anna) only requires a simple majority in the House and no constitutional amendments ...

So basically Congress is trying to stall for time ...

In a way, a simple parliament legislation the institution can be closed too. When they have 2/3rd majority, they can make it such. What should be done is that pass the bill now, see that A Raja and Kalamadi types are investigated by proper agencies and not govt CBI.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 26 Aug 2011 16:11

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Sonia-doi ... 38094.aspx

Prinyaka appears on AH issue along with brother-confirms SG is coming back.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Gujarat-G ... 38064.aspx

In an unprecedented move, the Gujarat Governor has appointed Retd Justice R A Mehta as Lokayukta of the state, bypassing the Narendra Modi-led BJP government which had kept the post vacant for the last seven years.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 744701.cms

Advertising filmmaker Prahlad Kakkar says brands are consciously staying away from the corruption issue. "They are happy sitting on the fence and playing the waitand-watch game," he says. "They are all opportunists and playing smart. Maybe someone should ask them if their silence means they support corruption."

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 26 Aug 2011 16:27

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 742297.cms

High drama ensued well past after midnight at the VIP gate of Ramlila maidan here where Anna Hazare is sitting on a protest fast, as a group of people clashed with policemen and dismantled barricades.

According to eyewitnesses, a group of people got into a tiff with some policemen deployed at the rear gate of the maidan around 3am.

The youth heckled the policemen and hit them with sticks when they tried to stop their group from opening the iron gate, being used as VIP gate.

"A group of people got involved with policemen and then tried to flung open the gate of the maidan," a police officer deployed at the agitation site said requesting anonymity.

The officer's shoulder lapels were torn in the melee. The group brought down the barricades and shouted slogans as policemen tried to persuade them to go away.

A senior Delhi police official soon arrived at the spot and a platoon of the CRPF personnel was called in to control the group of about 7-8 men.

Four Police Control Room (PCR) vans reached on the spot after 20 minutes.

The group threw the chairs used by policemen at the gate in air.

The officer, however, refused to comment on the incident as he ordered his staff to place the fallen barricades in place.

Following the incident police has cordoned off the road towards the VIP gate.

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 26 Aug 2011 16:31

Pranay wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 742297.cms

A possible false flag operation? These should be watched out for, nonetheless, for demonizing the protest.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 26 Aug 2011 16:44

Now Old Kangress Crony T.N. Seshan is appearing in T.V and says he has prepared a draft Lokpal bill (constitutional body) which is exactly like the idea mooted by Rahul the clown prince. He also claims he never ever met The C.Prince in his life and their ideas are totally independent.

Sounds like Newton & Leibnitz inventing Calculus independently centuries ago!

habal · Post by **habal** » 26 Aug 2011 17:07

Why is this Krane Bedi trying to demean all Indian politicians ? What is she aiming at ? Is this an international attempt to defame Indian politicians and put them down before their own people. And while she is screeching away, sadly she is being ably assisted in this by Chidambaram & Sibal. Something isn't right here.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 26 Aug 2011 17:08

geeth wrote:Now Old Kangress Crony T.N. Seshan is appearing in T.V and says he has prepared a draft Lokpal bill (constitutional body) which is exactly like the idea mooted by Rahul the clown prince. He also claims he never ever met The C.Prince in his life and their ideas are totally independent.

Sounds like Newton & Leibnitz inventing Calculus independently centuries ago!

..... after stealing calculus from the Kerala school of Mathematics (Anna hazare)

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 26 Aug 2011 17:23

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14675511

Meanwhile, ruling Congress party leader Rahul Gandhi said he had "serious doubts that a single bill will end corruption".

In a rare speech in parliament, Mr Gandhi said corruption "cannot just be wished away" and thanked Mr Hazare for "helping people to articulate this sentiment".

'No simple solutions'
"There are no simple solutions to eradicating corruption. But I have serious doubts that a single bill will end corruption. What we require is a set of effective laws," he said.

I'm yet to see any intellectual input from RG - where was he all these years??

Now, assorted Congress chamchas will ruminate endlessly about the fulminations of their "great leader". What a pitiful sight...

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 26 Aug 2011 17:37

Jethmalani is really naughty, timesnow channel lady asked in the end "what do you think about rahul's proposal?" he answered with a twinkle "I think Rahul would have real idea about expert on corruption.......(Thanks Rahul I have changed it)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Aug 2011 17:39

magnanimity means something else.

he said rahul is a real expert on corruption.

btw, I listened to TN seshan's interview and congress stooge or not his comments made sense. he said his draft includes all of AH team's demands but in the structure of a constitutional body. from what little I know of the constitution, it would make sense if the lokpal is a constitutional body and that resolves the problem of parliament legislating on a state subject (lokayukta) as well.
now practically, unless congress wants a constitutional amendment is not possible but that is true of the regular bill as well. this form of the draft, assuming it is in line with the jan lokpal otherwise, would not be any more time wasting than the regular lokpal bills.

if RG and congress pushed the constitutional argument as a time wasting maneuver then seshan's draft removes their excuse.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 26 Aug 2011 17:42

Manish_Sharma wrote:

Jethmalani is really naughty, timesnow channel lady asked in the end "what do you think about rahul's proposal?" he answered with a twinkle "I think Rahul would have real idea about magnanimity of corruption.......

During the Bofors scam Rajiv was asked several questions by Jethmalani via newspapers and Rajiv said I do not have to answer every barking dog. Jethmalani replied "Dogs bark at only theives"

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 26 Aug 2011 17:45

Anna fan storms into the pariliament. ToI flash.

Not sure how much this protest will succeed in stopping corruption but can be sure that this protest will give birth to several Anna's.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 26 Aug 2011 17:56

There is one good opportunity for UPA. It can clamp emergency using Anna's tactics as a pretext. Firsthing after that they have to dismiss Gujarat government and put Modi behind bars.

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 26 Aug 2011 18:12

habal wrote:Why is this Krane Bedi trying to demean all Indian politicians ? What is she aiming at ? Is this an international attempt to defame Indian politicians and put them down before their own people. And while she is screeching away, sadly she is being ably assisted in this by Chidambaram & Sibal. Something isn't right here.

Why do you call her "Krane" ? ANd why shouldnt the Indian politician be called out for what he is, a despicable, dirty scoundral, who is the poorest excuse possible for a human being. Why should we not call these filthy pigs out openly, so that we Indians can make a statement to the world that most of us are not like that, that these dirty pigs are not representative of us Indians as a people in general. Of course, that begs the question then, as to why we elect them ? The answer to that is that maybe, we have a little bit of a "dirty pig" in each one of us, but very little, and these politicians get elected by exploiting our caste and religious differences and creating a wedge between our people, another sign of their flithy thought process.

On a different note altogether, look at this news story below. Now the US is alarmed that China is going in for massive investments to modernize its armed forces and particularly alarmed that Chinese spending patterns on their military systems suggest a very agressive stance. They are further alarmed by the fact that the Indians "seem" oblivious to this fact or at least are not responding in any meaningful way to counter this threat. Isnt this another form of corruption ? These dirty, filthy pigs of Indian politicians are so busy making money and conducting business and squandering our national resources in useless "schemes" to buy off various interests who could in turn vote to keep this scum in power, that they neither have the money nor the inclination nor the spine to take appropriate defensive actions to counter the threats to our country. These politicians are so dirty that not only do they not take any action, but they dont even talk about this threat and level with the Indian public. Instead, they along with our also totally corrupt media conspire to conceal these threats from the general public.

Those people on this forum or otherwise, who choose to justify Indian government's actions as Chanakyan or those who imply that Indian government is doing something behind the scenes or those who declare that talking about these threats openly doesnt serve any purpose are merely enabling these politician/media conspiracy of silence and abetting their robbing of Indian people and being partners in making the nation more insecure. And please, I request those people who think that US has its own agenda and therefore is deceiving India into believing that there are threats from China where there arent any, please dont even respond to this post. That line of thinking is frankly, "sick".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 739611.cms

Corruption is not only bribes, this form of corruption where you ignore threats to national security with a "Dilli abhi door hai" syndrome, is worst than bribes, in fact it goes hand in hand with bribes.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 26 Aug 2011 18:24

has you called to this " Hello my dear friends Plz do sms n forward 2 all u knw.The Govt has put condition 2 get 25 crore people to support Jan LokPal.
To give ur support call 08030088502 (as given by Kiran Bedi) from ur mobile no. Ur Call will disconnect after 1 ring & ur no registered automatically. U ll get an SMS confirming this. Do it & pass 2 all ur friends 2 make India corruption free. LETS SAVE OUR NATION. THANKS

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 26 Aug 2011 18:33

habal wrote:Why is this Krane Bedi trying to demean all Indian politicians ? What is she aiming at ? Is this an international attempt to defame Indian politicians and put them down before their own people. And while she is screeching away, sadly she is being ably assisted in this by Chidambaram & Sibal. Something isn't right here.

One needs to understand what Kiran Bedi stands for.If you cannot figure what she is aiming at, spend some time listening to her speech, and also dig up some info about her famous deeds. She is doing exactly what should be done, expose corrupt Indian Politicians globally.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Aug 2011 18:34

>> Why do you call her "Krane" ?

what do you know about kiran bedi ? I am guessing not much.

from wiki "She is popularly referred to as Crane Bedi for towing the Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's car for a parking violation"

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 26 Aug 2011 18:37

And that was one of her famous acts,she did not see any difference between a common man violating traffic norms, and a politician doing the same. She has a vision of equality of all beings, and opposes the arrogance found in many politicians, who after all are elected representatives, and servants of the country.They should be more dignified and not arrogant. Kiran Bedi ji has an impeccable record.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Aug 2011 18:46

if you really knew that then you also know that 'krane' bedi is not a pejorative name.

why then "demeaning her name by calling her Krane is unacceptable"

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Aug 2011 18:52

IndraD wrote: In an unprecedented move, the Gujarat Governor has appointed Retd Justice R A Mehta as Lokayukta of the state, bypassing the Narendra Modi-led BJP government which had kept the post vacant for the last seven years.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 744701.cms

Advertising filmmaker Prahlad Kakkar says brands are consciously staying away from the corruption issue. "They are happy sitting on the fence and playing the waitand-watch game," he says. "They are all opportunists and playing smart. Maybe someone should ask them if their silence means they support corruption."

Funny thing is Lokayukta there in all states, It is conspicously missing in Mahrastra, Andhra Pradesh, Kerala and TN.

Any Guesses Why and why the Central Government does not want to appoint Lokayuta in these states. I am sure NM will challenge the appointment, lets see what happens.

Would any business brand risk taking on the Govt?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 26 Aug 2011 18:56

habal wrote:Why is this Krane Bedi trying to demean all Indian politicians ? What is she aiming at ? Is this an international attempt to defame Indian politicians and put them down before their own people. And while she is screeching away, sadly she is being ably assisted in this by Chidambaram & Sibal. Something isn't right here.

habal wrote:So basically it seems fight is between lobbies within the MMS to privatize favoring Indian corporates and without regulators. And the Arvind Kejriwal, Manish Sisodia & Kiran bedi fighting for Ford Foundation/Rockefeller MNC interests of lowering corruption expense to MNC business. The latter are using Anna as a pawn in this game.

Ofcourse. Anything wrong in assuming Indian nationalists are powerless, weak. Would they do anything without strong foreign backing or overt support from Indian groups. Is there enough personal conviction in even a single Indian to get up and fight injustice all by himself in this current generation.

Just highlighting

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 26 Aug 2011 18:56

Bandhuon, I am totally stumped by this TN Sheshan appearance. He says to Times Now that a draft bill, exactly parallel to the demands of the Jan Lokpal, and in line with RG's thought, is ready down to the last 't' ready to be introduced into the parliament tomorrow!! Ready so soon, out of nowhere? What the heck is going on?

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 26 Aug 2011 19:00

The Honorable Ajay Maken speaketh - "What Rahul Ji has said in Parliament today is a game changer... blah - blah - blah"

as spoken on Times Now...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Aug 2011 19:07

Geeth, TNS is friend of the Family. Not just the INC. He did not allow J&K elections in Dec 1995 but had them postponed.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 26 Aug 2011 19:08

Rahul M wrote:if you really knew that then you also know that 'krane' bedi is not a pejorative name.

why then "demeaning her name by calling her Krane is unacceptable"

I removed the sentence.You are right, she has been called Crane(or Krane) Bedi in the press many times.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Aug 2011 19:13

All stops are being pulled out in this time of crisis,not for the nation,but to save the life of not Anna either,but that of the Grand Old Party! Thus oldtime well-wishers like Seshan and co. are being dusted off from their perches on pension shelves and are being despatched with indecent haste to "plug the dyke" that the Anna H "bomb" has breached.

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 26 Aug 2011 19:13

I will not be surprised if TN Seshan's draft has loopholes, deceptively covered like trapdoor spiders' burrows.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 26 Aug 2011 19:23

Anna should go off the fast, and someone else, perhaps Arvind Kejriwal can continue the fast, thus a relay fast would buy time for negotiations.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 26 Aug 2011 19:31

sanjeevpunj wrote:Anna should go off the fast, and someone else, perhaps Arvind Kejriwal can continue the fast, thus a relay fast would buy time for negotiations.

Anna Hazare is the "lightening rod" - the wind will go out of the sails of the movement if Anna Hazare gives up his fast.

Anna's lieutenants are crucial to his team but they do not have the same resonance with the public imagination ...

Certain objectives were achieved in India's freedom struggle only because Mahatma Gandhi fasted - not because he had a relay fast with JLN, Sardar Patel, etc. fasting...