The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by RamaY »

^ sounds logical. But what did mr. Hegde expected to come out of this? Why did he join this movement to start with, when he must have expected this situation from the beginning given UPA approach and the challenge at hand.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sumishi »

IndraD wrote:
praksam wrote:Om puri has touched a lot of raw nerves by telling the truth. I am his ardent fan from today
Just turn any news channel (like NDTV) on and see how Om Puri is being demeaned.
Om Puri (IMO) represented the anger of aam aadmi in true spirit.
Have always instinctively read the oxymoron "hon'ble minister" as "horr'ble minister" in print.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranav »

@janlokpal the steps of the hooligans aired on TV NEWS like choreographed by Delhi police,1 hooligan beating 2 police ,n police wer laughin

http://twitter.com/#!/Nikolov01/status/ ... 2213288960
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

RamaY wrote:^ sounds logical. But what did mr. Hegde expected to come out of this? Why did he join this movement to start with, when he must have expected this situation from the beginning given UPA approach and the challenge at hand.

He associated with the movement whilst still in office. This alone would have contravened any

number of moral and ethical issues.

He actually drew travelling and daily allowance from the government for coming to Delhi for

the lokpal work.

Insecure babus always try to parley their "work" in office to obtain a good deal after

retirement to continue to wet their beaks in the loaves and fishes of government office.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

shivajisisodia wrote:
Dhiman wrote: as far as I can tell the war has just started and needless to say there is still plenty of space for different leaders with different styles emerging here in case any jingo here is interested.
How about someone from here (BRF) emerging as a leader ?
I will support anyone on BRF who considers Corruption as the number one sickness plaguing India (as opposed who think "corruption is not such a big issue" types).
Perhaps a young person from BRF should come forward and be one of the leaders of this movement and take it forward.
How young should the person be? I am over 50, and I consider Corruption as the #1 sickness plaguing India.People that cause this sickness are found in the Parliament,political parties,power circles and positions of governmental authority, at all levels, from the villages upwards to the cities and right upto the top echelons of power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and the most powerful chairs (President and Prime Minister) are breaking down under the weight of this corruption.
New Delhi President Pratibha Patil has approved the law giving her a 300 per cent hike in salary taking her monthly pay cheque to Rs 1.5 lakh from Rs 50,000 per month in the New Year.
She also gave her assent to another law that will hike the monthly salary of vice-president M H Ansari's salary from Rs 40,000 to Rs 1.25 lakh per month.The salary of President, which was fixed at Rs 10,000 in the Constitution, was gradually raised to Rs 50,000 a month in 1998 with effect from January 1, 1996.Now since Jan 2009, it is 1,50,000 per month and next hike may be coming.
I have no idea about the other perks, but this is atrocious anough and loot of the nation's treasury.PM Man Mohan Singh is implicit in the 2G scam already by keeping one eye closed while Chidambaram and Raja manipulated him and tried to get away with their crooked ways.Thanks to the law at least Raja is in the clanker.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by RamaY »

And with Yeddi out, his task is done and he will receive his payment..
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

BJP helped Yeddi escape. knowing that things will get hotter.in retrospective, Yeddi must also be brought under purview of Jan Lokpal Bill, once passed.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by shivajisisodia »

How young should the person be? I am over 50, and I consider Corruption as the #1 sickness plaguing India.People that cause this sickness are found in the Parliament,political parties,power circles and positions of governmental authority, at all levels, from the villages upwards to the cities and right upto the top echelons of power.

Sanjeevpunj,

I wii support you.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by rvishwak »

Pranav wrote:@janlokpal the steps of the hooligans aired on TV NEWS like choreographed by Delhi police,1 hooligan beating 2 police ,n police wer laughin

http://twitter.com/#!/Nikolov01/status/ ... 2213288960

Yes this was surely stage managed. This happened near VIP gate of ramlila maidan and not very far from India Gate and police presence is quite large at these places, 15-20 hooligans cannot leave after beating cops. I have never seen Delhi police manhandled by such a small group of drunkards. They will just beat the shit out of the guys trying to misbeahve with them. Any ways the faces and vehicle numbers were clearly visible, still there is no report yet of any action against these hooligans.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dhiman »

Contact information (email address and phone numbers) of Lok Sabha members: http://164.100.47.132/LssNew/members/me ... etail.aspx.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

shivajisisodia wrote:How young should the person be? I am over 50, and I consider Corruption as the #1 sickness plaguing India.People that cause this sickness are found in the Parliament,political parties,power circles and positions of governmental authority, at all levels, from the villages upwards to the cities and right upto the top echelons of power.

Sanjeevpunj,

I wii support you.
Shivaji, thanks for the positive response, but do you feel I am suitable? My encumberances include a family to look after, a job to keep,and apart from that I am not in India.Yet I am thinking of ways to see in what way I can contribute.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dilbu »

I don't like the way this Anna movement is going. Jan Lok Pal Bill draft with its civil society nomination $hit is utter crap. I can understand Anna when he was demanding that a strong Lokpal bill should be passed. But when demands changed to Janlokpal bill to be passed before 30th or indefinite fast, it is truly against the nature of democracy. The parliament will discuss 4 versions of the draft and pass the bill that much is guaranteed. Anna and all those protesters should observe the process and make sure that the newly drafted law is effective enough to tackle corruption.

Beyond that the tactics of holding the govt of India hostage like this is unacceptable. IMHO
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by shivajisisodia »

sanjeevpunj wrote:
Shivaji, thanks for the positive response, but do you feel I am suitable? My encumberances include a family to look after, a job to keep,and apart from that I am not in India.Yet I am thinking of ways to see in what way I can contribute.

Brother,

As long as you genuinely like yourself, have true self respect, not the false ego kind, meaning that the tenet that you only want what is rightfully yours and not what belongs to others, and you love humanity, you are eminently suitable.

I believe you meet the criteria.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

shivajisisodia wrote:How young should the person be? I am over 50, and I consider Corruption as the #1 sickness plaguing India.
Over hunger/starvation and female infanticide. Or chronic joblessness and lack of health care. Or lack of quality schooling or brutish inflation. or lack of drinking water. Or even malaria which kills 100,000 every single year in India. Or preventable infectious diseases that kill well over 1 Million + every single year in India. How about Traffic fatalities about 100,000 every year. Or maternal mortality that kills 40,000 women every year.

There is anger over corruption but the poor would never put it at #1 problem. And don't give me the shill that corruption causes all these problems. Simply not true. We havn't invested in our people for a long time. Even simple traffic rules education is not done. Yet we expect corruption to disappear from our population.

There is a clear disconnect between the middle class and the truly poor on this issue. The middle class needs to grow up.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by shivajisisodia »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Over hunger/starvation and female infanticide. Or chronic joblessness and lack of health care. Or lack of quality schooling or brutish inflation. or lack of drinking water. Or even malaria which kills 100,000 every single year in India. Or preventable infectious diseases that kill well over 1 Million + every single year in India. How about Traffic fatalities about 100,000 every year. Or maternal mortality that kills 40,000 women every year.

There is anger over corruption but the poor would never put it at #1 problem. And don't give me the shill that corruption causes all these problems. Simply not true. We havn't invested in our people for a long time. Even simple traffic rules education is not done. Yet we expect corruption to disappear from our population.

There is a clear disconnect between the middle class and the truly poor on this issue. The middle class needs to grow up.
You are misguided.

Just because someone thinks something doesnt make it so. Corruption is not just bribery. Corruption really means when a person doesnt have self respect. If the person genuinely develops true self respect, then and only then will we be able to solve the problem of poverty. Because a person with true self respect will not rest until the least amongst us rises above poverty. Without self respect, people can have a thousand births and thousand deaths, they would just be spinning their wheels.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dhiman »

Theo_Fidel wrote: Over hunger/starvation and female infanticide. Or chronic joblessness and lack of health care. Or lack of quality schooling or brutish inflation. or lack of drinking water. Or even malaria which kills 100,000 every single year in India. Or preventable infectious diseases that kill well over 1 Million + every single year in India. How about Traffic fatalities about 100,000 every year. Or maternal mortality that kills 40,000 women every year.

There is anger over corruption but the poor would never put it at #1 problem. And don't give me the shill that corruption causes all these problems. Simply not true. We havn't invested in our people for a long time. Even simple traffic rules education is not done. Yet we expect corruption to disappear from our population.
Nobody has said that Sir except you :-) However, corruption is certainly the #1 hindrance in solving these problems that you outline (along with a general deficit in governance that exists in the country).
There is a clear disconnect between the middle class and the truly poor on this issue.
Not true if you really dig into details of that statement.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

I disagree with Theo, that Corruption is not the #1 problem. Corruption is actually a very broad term, and is at the root of the malaise. Lack of education,ignorance in abundance exemplifies the poor majority of Indians and it is due to corruption, that poor people cannot send their kids to expensive schools that supposedly give better education.Due to the need of paying bribes, many poor people simply avoid spending money on anything other than their basic upkeep-roti and kapda. The makaan part is also steeped in corruption,you cannot own a house in India until you have done bribing some groups that are in the building business.My dad was a victim of corruption, he was transferred from a job in Bareilly, where he had raised objections to the corrupt practices of a Scientist, who was also a Director of the institute there, and this man went to ICAR Head offices in Delhi, bribed the pigs there and got his vigilance cases quashed, and then he paid Rs 40000/= to ensure my dad gets transferred from Bareilly.In the process dad could not build a house of his own.When we (my brother and me) grew up we worked hard to acquire a home, paying back 12.5% interest rates (not in India, but abroad) for the loan which got us our house. I am middle class.What do you want me to grow up as? Middle class is the foundation of India, and the rich upper classes need to realise this. All middle class people are not corrupt as is widely assumed.There are people with mettle, you see them toiling everyday.

I do agree with Shivaji, unless we develop a deep understanding of ourselves,a strong self image,we cannot strongly oppose the corrupt ways, simply because the corrupt are powerful and use their money to win friends and support.i see people glorifying Rahul for his statement, he has merely expressed the standard view of the dynasty - dekha jayega, ek lok pal bill banaya jayega, samay lagega" a long term solution which is intended just to diffuse the crisis thats going on.Rahul frankly has nothing in common with the common man, despite his media stints. He is a ruling coterie, and will not be able to rid himself of the adhesions that go with it.It is next to impossible to expect him to think like the common man. Press stints like posing for photos with families of the poor, are just an eyewash.
Last edited by sanjeevpunj on 27 Aug 2011 10:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^Whoa, shaant gadadhari bheem... Does no good to get carried away with one's own righteous rhetoric only (been there, done that).

Whatever the poor may put as the #1 problem, it would be (at least indirectly) related to institutionally poor governance in our country. And corruption ain't far behind when discussing the root causes of faltering institutions. Only.

Not to go all ga-ga over the anti-corruption awakening of sorts but some of the points made seem eminently sensible. A citizens' charter, a time-frame for service delivery, clearly spelt out penalties for said SLAs not being met and so on. Why not? Wanting retail corruption curbed is anti-poor now?

In any case, for 40 yrs lok pal legislation in some form or the other languished with parliament. Proof that there's no incentive within the system to change the cosy system, you see. That push for change had to come from outside only. And an external push, that Anna's andolan has taken, comes with its own set of issues and warts.

I distinctly recall the same righteousness displayed above in grandly declaring how the bottrom 1/3rd of India was screwing up our HDI numbers and all that. So what is the solution? Chini style cultural revolutions or stalinist bullying to make India a sooperpower within a generation? The Indian way seems to be incremental change, from bottom up usually, allowing things to get to crisis point before firefighting and all. Sure, that could be improved but incrementalism can only give so much. Need for broad changes at the top are also called for. Ergo, Anna.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Hari Seldon »

From twitter

@lpolgreen Lydia Polgreen
>>Why not charge more for faster govt service, like express post, and use the profits to improve service for all? http://j.mp/oX46dk

IOW, create a new tatkal scheme in all govt offices and departments. Expect the babooze to fully support his new avenue for minting more money only.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

If corruption is such a #1 problem why are we growing at 8%+. Keep in mind during the British era, when apparently India was clean as the driven snow, growth rate was often 1% or less.

Does corruption have a negative effect on growth sure it does. But the effect of lack of roads and electricity for all is 10 times worse. Lokpal will have zero effect on these things. Meanwhile the government is busy raising interest rates and growth rate is reducing every day to under 8% now. Inflation in rural areas rages out of control, but even 1/100th attention is not paid to these issues.

Iceland has zero corruption yet is bankrupt now. I guess lack of corruption did not save them.

Middle class needs to maintain some perspective on this and not get into hyperbole.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by ManishH »

Corruption isn't a problem - it's a symptom; of decline of values. That's a more fundamental problem. The ruckus is about arresting the decline in values.

Theo: a lot of people value a just and fair society more than one with shining macro-economic numbers.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Khali puts his weight behind Anna Hazare
Shimla: Popular World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) wrestler The Great Khali has pledged his support to fasting social activist Anna Hazare.
"Khali has extended his support to Anna and asked people to extend full support to root out corruption from society," a spokesperson of Khali - one of the tallest WWE wrestlers at 7 feet 3 inches and weighing 190 kg - told IANS on Saturday.He said that the ongoing deadlock between the government and Anna over the issue of Lokpal bill is worrying Khali, who is currently settled in the US.
"I am not against any political party but Anna's movement is in the interest of the country," a statement quoting Khali said.The wrestler said that he was "closely watching the developments in India through news channels" despite his hectic schedule.Khali, who grew up in Dhirana village in Himachal Pradesh's Sirmaur district, some 200 kms from Shimla, said he himself had been a victim of corruption during his days of struggle.Born in a poor family as Dalip Singh Rana, Khali initially worked as a labourer to earn his livelihood. He became a professional wrestler in October 2000.
Source:http://sports.ndtv.com/othersports/othe ... nna-hazare
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Dipanker »

Beside, what is the point of an 8% growth rate if the inflation rate is 15%? A small percentage of people benefit from the higher growth but the rest of the population has to bear the burden of the killing inflation rate.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by krishnan »

Would it be right to say

decline in moral responsibilities / values leads to corruption ?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:If corruption is such a #1 problem why are we growing at 8%+. Keep in mind during the British era, when apparently India was clean as the driven snow, growth rate was often 1% or less.

Does corruption have a negative effect on growth sure it does. But the effect of lack of roads and electricity for all is 10 times worse. Lokpal will have zero effect on these things. Meanwhile the government is busy raising interest rates and growth rate is reducing every day to under 8% now. Inflation in rural areas rages out of control, but even 1/100th attention is not paid to these issues.

Iceland has zero corruption yet is bankrupt now. I guess lack of corruption did not save them.

Middle class needs to maintain some perspective on this and not get into hyperbole.
Statistics are easily cooked my friend. Can you tell to the poor man on the road who has to think of his next meal, that "look we have 8% growth in India, and we will be better than China soon" No sir he will just ask you if you can spare him a nickel to buy his lunch.
Theo_Fidel

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

ManishH wrote:Theo: a lot of people value a just and fair society more than one with shining macro-economic numbers.
They are equally important. You can't have one without the other. There is no justice and fairness in poverty. I would go so far as to say prosperity is a prereq. for justice/fairness.

You are absolutely right about it as a symptom. Sad no one mentions it. Verily Kalyug. :(

Sanjeev,

No clue what you are talking about now.
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 27 Aug 2011 10:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

krishnan wrote:Would it be right to say

decline in moral responsibilities / values leads to corruption ?
Possibly yes.I don;t want to drag the thread into OT realms, but yes, moral values constantly declining open the road to inglorious corrupt practices.To sustain a lifestyle, people will do anything.Who would want to sacrifice his perks, when he could easily get away by just flowing with the current? Baboos think exactly like this, and fall into the river."Behti ganga mein hum bhi nahaan le to kisko pata chalega". The money flow generated by corruption is actually damaging our finance system, reducing treasury balances and inflating costs at all levels.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by darshhan »

Theo_Fidel wrote:If corruption is such a #1 problem why are we growing at 8%+. Keep in mind during the British era, when apparently India was clean as the driven snow, growth rate was often 1% or less.

Does corruption have a negative effect on growth sure it does. But the effect of lack of roads and electricity for all is 10 times worse. Lokpal will have zero effect on these things. Meanwhile the government is busy raising interest rates and growth rate is reducing every day to under 8% now. Inflation in rural areas rages out of control, but even 1/100th attention is not paid to these issues.

Iceland has zero corruption yet is bankrupt now. I guess lack of corruption did not save them.

Middle class needs to maintain some perspective on this and not get into hyperbole.
Theo fidel ji , let us say corruption is not the no.1 problem as you say.Maybe it is no.2 or no.3 or even no.5 problem.So according to you a problem which is not the most important should not be solved.What kind of logic is this?

Let us assume the no.1 problem for poor is illiteracy or malnutrition.No body has stopped anyone from taking steps to improve poor people's lives on these accounts.Let there be a thousand Annas , each one tackling a different problem.

Nowhere has Anna said that let my movement be the only one and only after corruption issue is resolved , anyone can deal with other problems.

Infact if anyone thinks that poor have issues greater than corruption then he should try to raise awareness about it instead of criticizing someone who is trying to do something even if it is in a different field.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by shivajisisodia »

Darshan Sb,

Very profound and very correct, sir.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Arjun »

The governance deficit is the single biggest issue holding India back from realizing her full potential. Hard-core, numbers driven analysts agree with this sentiment so I don't think anybody seriously needs to elaborate on this point.

Corruption is one of the central issues that contribute to misgovernance - though there are others as well, such as need for electoral reform and reform of the judiciary.

Team Anna is doing well by focusing on corruption at the first stage. Its only by showing success with specifics such as the Lokpal bill, that they will retain enough credibility to move on and take the fight to other necessary reforms.
Theo_Fidel

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

sanjeevpunj wrote:The money flow generated by corruption is actually damaging our finance system, reducing treasury balances and inflating costs at all levels.
How so?

An honest clean system is freaking expensive. Take a look at the costs in Germany or Switzerland or even in Massaland to get paper to move from one table to next. Fee's for every thing. Freakin' expensive. Just give you an idea I paid a fee of $500+$300 to get the plans for my PV system approved. For those of you doing the math in India, this is about Rs 35,000 for about 2 hours worth of work. This is considered cheap and the inspector will show up of 30 minutes for that $300. If he comes again it is $300 again. Personally I'd prefer to bribe him $50 to go away. It is my house and no way I do something shoddy on it but...

All studies show China is just as corrupt as India, if not even more so, as they are completely unquestioned. AH would be sent to Siberia there on first day. Yet they are economically kicking ass.
Arjun wrote:The governance deficit is the single biggest issue holding India back from realizing her full potential. Hard-core, numbers driven analysts agree with this sentiment so I don't think anybody seriously needs to elaborate on this point.
Yup! Definitely several magnitudes more important than corruption. The middle class has however found a way around this. Private Schools, Private (donation) colleges, Water tanker, generator, private security, personal vehicle, etc insulate the middle class from the inability of the state to invest in its people. So not so much clamor for that. But for corruption....
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 27 Aug 2011 11:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Manish_Sharma »

A minute before Pranav's statement in LS started, Arnab Goswami asked about various groups and parties questioning the legitimacy of unelected civil society. In answer Nalini Singh questioned the authority of unelected NAC whose laws govt. has been implementing, almost looked like she was reading from Rudradevji's post. 8)
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
ManishH wrote:Theo: a lot of people value a just and fair society more than one with shining macro-economic numbers.
They are equally important. You can't have one without the other. There is no justice and fairness in poverty. I would go so far as to say prosperity is a prereq. for justice/fairness.

You are absolutely right about it as a symptom. Sad no one mentions it. Verily Kalyug. :(

Sanjeev,

No clue what you are talking about now.
Let me put it this way - I first of all agree when you say there is no justice and fairness in poverty. How did this poverty (a curse as many call it) come into being? We need to think deep about that, to get a clear picture.
Wiki says
Poverty is widespread in India, with the nation estimated to have a third of the world's poor. According to a 2005 World Bank estimate, 41.6% of the total Indian population falls below the international poverty line of US$ 1.25 a day (PPP, in nominal terms 21.6 a day in urban areas and 14.3 in rural areas).[1] According to a new UN Millennium Development Goals Report, as many as 320 million people in India and China are expected to come out of extreme poverty in the next four years, while India's poverty rate is projected to drop to 22% in 2015.[2] the report also indicates that in Southern Asia, however, only India, where the poverty rate is projected to fall from 51% in 1990 to about 22% in 2015, is on track to cut poverty in half by the 2015 target date.
All said and done, this is not possible until something catastrophic occurs in our financial system, maybe they will pay off extra money to the poor, and write off loans, to acheive this.Yet there will be discontent, there will be corruption dogging every single transaction of money that flows out of government treasuries.Greed will hold sway over the minds of the politicians and the money still will not reach the poorest of the poor. In 2015 they will say we reduced poverty to 22%. Why cannot we reduce povert to zero percent by 2014? Pass the Lokpal bill, and the targets will be more acheivable than they seem to be now.
uddu
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Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by uddu »

Theo_Fidel wrote:If corruption is such a #1 problem why are we growing at 8%+. Keep in mind during the British era, when apparently India was clean as the driven snow, growth rate was often 1% or less.

Does corruption have a negative effect on growth sure it does. But the effect of lack of roads and electricity for all is 10 times worse. Lokpal will have zero effect on these things. Meanwhile the government is busy raising interest rates and growth rate is reducing every day to under 8% now. Inflation in rural areas rages out of control, but even 1/100th attention is not paid to these issues.

Iceland has zero corruption yet is bankrupt now. I guess lack of corruption did not save them.

Middle class needs to maintain some perspective on this and not get into hyperbole.
The good governance of the British, when raw materials were taken out of India, and products and jobs were generated in Britain, how good it will be for Indian economy? This is known as the one percent becoming rich out of 99 percent.
Now since you gave a good suggestion, from now on for every post you make in BR, you have to pay Hafta to Nanna Mujahids of BR and a share will go to BR Mullah's as well. Let's boost the economy. :D
Theo_Fidel

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Nanha Mujahids I know. What manner of creature is this 'nanna mujahid'. :)

Verily I prostrate and grease the wheels of BR commerce. Is paypal acceptable or do we need untraceable trail...
sanjeevpunj
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Theo_Fidel wrote: All studies show China is just as corrupt as India, if not even more so, as they are completely unquestioned. AH would be sent to Siberia there on first day. Yet they are economically kicking ass
Fortunately, AH is in India, and not China.China has nothing to do with the current scenario we are facing, so let us not bring China into this.China is perhaps more corrupt,and exemplifies the worst we might have to deal with for India,in the future,with Pakistan giving them their Intel about India on a regular basis now.Before we end up dealing with China, let us be strong internally first and agree that corruption needs to be tackled legally, with the help of a Jan Lokpal Bill,that will ensure strong action in years to come, and not a weak bill presented by Pranab Mukherjee.
Theo_Fidel

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

sanjeevpunj wrote:Before we end up dealing with China, let us be strong internally first and agree that corruption needs to be tackled legally, with the help of a Jan Lokpal Bill,that will ensure strong action in years to come, and not a weak bill presented by Pranab Mukherjee.
I'll place a bet with you. Say we get lokpal that is agreeable to you, we will see if in 10 years, say 2021, if India moves into the top 10, no lets say top 20, no not even that, lets say top 50 in transparency internationals rankings. We are at present 87 out of 178.

I will then toast you to a beer/sharaab of your choice and turn around and tell everyone what an ass I was. :D If not you must do the same. What do you think.

On the other hand, say we achieve 90% female literacy to 10th grade. I can guarantee you our ranking will be in top 50. Just that one social indicator.
darshhan
BRF Oldie
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Joined: 12 Dec 2008 11:52

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by darshhan »

Theo fidel ji , I agree with you that corruption is not the foremost problems that India is facing.India has many other pressing challenges.For eg. Food, freshwater, energy supplies,malnutrtion,lack of vision etc.

But all this doesn't mean that we stop taking steps to resolve lower priority problems such as corruption.Let us recognize the work that Anna ji is doing and appreciate it even if we do not agree with him completely.Or there will come a day when no one will speak for Indians.
Theo_Fidel

Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

^^^^^
Agreed. IMHO That is the correct perspective.
sumishi
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sumishi »

Theo_Fidel wrote:... Just give you an idea I paid a fee of $500+$300 to get the plans for my PV system approved. For those of you doing the math in India, this is about Rs 35,000 for about 2 hours worth of work. This is considered cheap and the inspector will show up of 30 minutes for that $300........
[OT] Almost always have I seen people comparing based on exchange rates.
Boss, you should consider the purchasing power parity between nations (Unkil & India in this case), in which case that Rs. 35,000 drops to about a third, i.e. Rs. 12,000. Dilutes the OMG factor, doesn't it?
Converting using exchange rates makes sense if your earn in US in dollah in the day, instantaneously teleport to India after office time, and make all relevant expenditures in desh.
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