The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

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IndraD
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

"
Mayawati has betrayed rational thought. The question is, has she also betrayed the Dalit? There is no question that the documents are official papers from the US embassy. These papers have been proven the world over, including by the aggressive persecution of our people by Washington. The allegations within them are made by US diplomats in their private communications back to Hillary Clinton. If chief minister Mayawati has a problem with the contents of these communications she need to take it up with Hillary. I ask that Mayawatti to admit her error and apologise
Assagne replies to Mayawati s usual allegation of being anti Dalit whenever a corruption charge is brought on her :( :mrgreen:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 885253.cms
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Jarita »

IndraD wrote:"
Mayawati has betrayed rational thought. The question is, has she also betrayed the Dalit? There is no question that the documents are official papers from the US embassy. These papers have been proven the world over, including by the aggressive persecution of our people by Washington. The allegations within them are made by US diplomats in their private communications back to Hillary Clinton. If chief minister Mayawati has a problem with the contents of these communications she need to take it up with Hillary. I ask that Mayawatti to admit her error and apologise
Assagne replies to Mayawati s usual allegation of being anti Dalit whenever a corruption charge is brought on her :( :mrgreen:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 885253.cms

His response to her is hilarious :D

I can't get over this. Tears in eyes etc. "Finest footwear from Britain" :lol: :twisted:
Last edited by Jarita on 07 Sep 2011 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by R_Kumar »

Pranay wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14800653

Another crook bites the dust...
Indian MP Amar Singh has been arrested over allegations that he offered bribes to opposition MPs to abstain from a crucial confidence vote in 2008.

A Delhi court rejected his bail plea and remanded him in custody.

At the time of the vote, Mr Singh belonged to the Socialist Party, a Congress government ally. He denies the bribery charge.
This is so funny. In this whole episode main beneficiary were MMS and Sonia. Shouldn't they be questioned too?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

A Singh needs police ki pitai to tell the names. Hope Supreme court (SC) yields enough pressure on Delhi police for same.
Since DP is in congress ki jeb, nothing will come out unless SC acts tough.
What about the issue of MP taking money to ask question?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sumishi »

IndraD wrote:A Singh needs police ki pitai to tell the names. H
Spare him the :((scare!! He has lost his kidneys b*lls and is now living on borrowed kidneys b*lls. :mrgreen: The judge has denied the ball plea.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by RamaY »

nukavarapu wrote: RamaY gaaru -- Either we have to make a stand and believe that wikiLeaks is not a scam or we have to believe that it is a complete scam orchestrated by a high level organization or people to achieve something really sinister and they are using these leaks as a good tool for propaganda. I can't do both at a time. So for the time being unless proven otherwise, I am on the side of those who believe wiki Leaks to be authentic. Hope that answers your question.
Nukavarapu garu,

I stand corrected. Especially after Assange's reply to Mayavati.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

Just curious why are two BJP MPs in jail ? Aren't they whistle blowers?

Also why wikileaks never reveals any thing about Rajmata & Amul Baby?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

IndraD wrote:Just curious why are two BJP MPs in jail ? Aren't they whistle blowers?

Also why wikileaks never reveals any thing about Rajmata & Amul Baby?
That's the chanikyan!

The CON media has a leg up on this whole scam. The Amar Singh can sing and blackmail Sonia and MMS that they gave him the money to buy MPs. In order to protect him, CON media Tehelka first ran an investigative report saying this is all initiated by BJP Advani's best friend Kulakarni.

http://tehelka.com/story_main49.asp?fil ... rstory.asp
Cash-for-Votes Scandal: A trap. And a cover-up

The Delhi police are following the script. This is basically implicating BJP and letting Sonia and MMS go. This whole drama is to signal Amar Singh that he will be allowed to go free if he keeps quiet.

http://tehelka.com/story_main50.asp?fil ... 1Delhi.asp
Delhi Police chargesheet mirrors our findings. Now the heat is on BJP top leaders.

Look how Tehelka is boasting... They never answer who Amar Singh is working for and on whose behalf he decided to pay money.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by krisna »

India must shake down Swiss banks to dig out black money
India has been wishy-washy in its pursuit of black money stashed in tax havens abroad, but with Swiss banking secrecy tottering under relentless US attack, it’s time New Delhi put pressure on Swiss banks to give up Indian tax evaders with undeclared funds.
Since the 2008 financial Armageddon, Switzerland has been under pressure to water down its banking secrecy laws as governments crack down on tax evaders with undeclared funds in Swiss banks. Switzerland has so far responded by signing new tax deals with Britain and Germany, which besides the US have been among the most noisy critics of Switzerland’s banking secrecy laws.
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange told reporters that India “should be much more aggressive” in dealing with Swiss banks as it was losing more tax revenue per capita than Germany. Switzerland in late August agreed to charge previously undeclared British deposits in Swiss account with a levy of up to 39%. The agreement follows a similar deal with Germany which was also struck in August.
In the US, UK, German cases holding bank accounts abroad is not illegal, but what is illegal is evading taxes on those accounts or the interest income. In our case, it is simply illegal for individuals to actually hold accounts so there is another dimension. Since such accounts are not even allowed, money will actually have to be repatriated. They will have to move the accounts back to India under the current law,” said Arvind Panagariya, professor of economics at Columbia University and author of India: the Emerging Giant.
“India ought to do much more because in our case it is also a case of unaccounted income.”
Amid pressure to bring back unaccounted money, India signed a protocol with Switzerland in August last year to revise the Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement (DTAA). The revised treaty gives India access to Swiss bank account details of its citizens from 1 January 2011.

Tax experts have blasted the Indian government for negotiating the DTAA treaty with Switzerland without fighting to get a chunk of tax revenues on illicit funds stashed away in Swiss banks since the 1970s. Experts also say India has little political will to curb black money as it has double taxation treaties with 79 countries, but 74 of these treaties need to be tweaked to include exchange of banking information between the countries.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by krisna »

time to unmask and name the evaders
dated 30 aug
by prof vaidya.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

Who was the real beneficiary of cash for vote scam, Will supreme court put enough pressure on Delhi Police or judiciary it self would get suitably infiltrated by judges favourable to congress?

http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfeed/n ... 13578.html

When news about Sonia illness was disclosed to media not even a single media man asked why Sonia doesn't feel necessary to explain herself to the nation, this itself tells the kind of influence and clout congress enjoys over media.

Amar Singh's arrest unites opposition to pressurise for deeper investigation
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 886576.cms
Last edited by IndraD on 07 Sep 2011 02:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by paramu »

nukavarapu wrote:RamaY gaaru -- Either we have to make a stand and believe that wikiLeaks is not a scam or we have to believe that it is a complete scam orchestrated by a high level organization or people to achieve something really sinister and they are using these leaks as a good tool for propaganda. I can't do both at a time. So for the time being unless proven otherwise, I am on the side of those who believe wiki Leaks to be authentic. Hope that answers your question.
This may not be a wise stand to take. I would rather take the data from Wikileaks and try to cross check whether that is true. No way I am ready to take it as authentic. Any charges based on wikileaks is not going stand in the court of law. Even Hillary may deny that the leaked cable is true.

Wikileaks itself could be a propaganda tool. Initially release correct data to build credibility and later slowly insert fake ones. Selective leaking is another trait of propaganda. Even the charges against Assange look flimsy and I believe that they will be dismissed by the court when the utility of wikileaks is over.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by eklavya »

nukavarapu wrote:When you make such tall bold claims about MMS being the greatest leader, can you atleast enlighten us, the ignorant people about his highness greatness?
If you have an open mind you might be enlightened. If not, better luck next time .. :D

Try reading some Economic History, maybe starting with Professor Jagdish Bhagwati, who has been writing about the Indian economy for nearly 50 years and is a world renowned authority on the subject.

http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-sh ... 101203.htm
... and the changes which would transform the economy began, after an external payments crisis in 1991, under the forceful leadership of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who was the finance minister at the time.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Singha wrote:isnt MMS daughter herself taken up US citizenship and is a ACLU affiliated lawyer?
jyoti basu used to spend most of his time in london post-retirement...would his son/daughter there be a UK passport holder?

there are great dangers when the kids of political and admin elites take up foreign citizenship...for all their tyrants and corruption, we seldom see this among the arab and sinic elites....they use the west as a playground but seldom settle there and take up citizenship.
kaamraid harkishan singh surjeet's son is a canadian citizen and burjua businessman too:

http://advocatekamalkumarpandey.wordpre ... -27012009/
But for Nandakumar, the case would have died a natural death. It was his PIL that led to the CBI probe and whenever he felt the agency was developing cold feet, he would move the court again, and again—as many as seven times. “In 2005, I wrote about Pinarayi’s shady dealings in the Lavalin contract. Crime also said it was the late CPM leader Harkishan Singh Surjeet’s son who linked Pinarayi with Lavlin. Enraged by the expose, CPM activists set the magazine’s Kozhikode office on fire. Valuable documents were destroyed. Copies of Crime were seized from all bookstalls across the state and burned,” he says.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110906.htm

Look! they can't find the cash source of the bribe money.. The morons at Tehelka never ask that question.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Aditya_V wrote:Being abroad in pursuit of better living is not a problem. But we have to accept the fact when children of leaders and top Industrialists stay there, it does give the host country leverage.
Gap between Indian and West used to be really staggering. Arabs were a bit closer and hence tended to go back for Govt job and Ayesha/Ayesha's at home. Arab women fought tooth and nail to not go back unless there was a lot of money. Also there were no private colleges and if one were academically challenged, even money could not buy you a seat. Hence many had to go abroad for studies. This has now changed quite dramatically.

Recently with the flood of R2I the number of long term green card is also reducing. Fewer rich kids are going. In my area of Massaland at least 1/3 of the Desi crowd, esp. professional, has returned with more leaving every day it feels like.

Even though their lives are privileged, I still give props to those who remain despite having options. Lets not attack their loyalty on this basis.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

eklavya wrote:
nukavarapu wrote:When you make such tall bold claims about MMS being the greatest leader, can you atleast enlighten us, the ignorant people about his highness greatness?
If you have an open mind you might be enlightened. If not, better luck next time .. :D

Try reading some Economic History, maybe starting with Professor Jagdish Bhagwati, who has been writing about the Indian economy for nearly 50 years and is a world renowned authority on the subject.

http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-sh ... 101203.htm
... and the changes which would transform the economy began, after an external payments crisis in 1991, under the forceful leadership of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who was the finance minister at the time.

Quick questions :)

Was MMS as forceful then as he is now??

Did he provide "leadership" then as he is doing now??

Once a babu, always a babu. Genetics will not change.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

x-post from cricket thread, TOI excerpt:

The Times of India says it has a copy of the standing committee's report, which has Srinivasan stating on record: "We were taken for a ride. I know we cannot plead before you that we did not know all this was happening. Your question would be, were you not vigilant? What did you do? I am sorry, sir, there is no defence for me. No defence in front of you. So, I am not pleading that [ignorance] at all. We just put our heads down."

The newspaper also reports that the board president Shashank Manohar admitted that the cheques for all IPL deals were signed by Srinivasan, the then BCCI treasurer, and subsequently MP Pandove who replaced him, and not by Modi. The board had previously put the blame on Modi's shoulders, claiming that he had enjoyed a free hand in running the league.

The revelations add a new layer to the board's ongoing tussle against the Indian government's efforts to bring the body under the transparency-enhancing Right to Information (RTI) Act, and a proposed bill to regulate Indian sports bodies. The BCCI's argument against the RTI is that it doesn't rely on government grants. The standing committee has, however, reportedly noted that a "coherent and consistent policy should be devised for the future whereby high-profile money-spinning events such as the IPL are not kept out of the ambit of law and taxability".

The committee also reportedly noted that the BCCI "meekly endorsed and approved decisions that were taken by the chairman [Modi] and all those responsible in breaching the law should be investigated and punished without further loss of time".

"When we questioned them [Srinivasan and Manohar], they had absolutely no answers," Vijay Darda, member of the standing committee and a Rajya Sabha (the parliament's council of states) MP, told the Times of India. "With folded hands they just stood there and admitted they had no explanations to offer. The problem with BCCI is too much money and too many big names involved in the administration. Sharad Pawar [ICC president], Farooq Abdullah, Arun Jaitley and all politicians want to be part of it."

Darda also raised the issue of the IPL's dubious money trails, which was revealed by the committee's investigations. "It was harrowing when we went through the records," he said. "Money transferred from some tax haven to some other tax haven finally ends up with some connection in IPL. The committee wants to know what has been going on. We will have to ensure that they are brought to account.

"Monopoly is an issue too. If the board is brought under RTI, the ordinary cricket fan will at least know what he's paying for. Far too much is either unaccountable or being swept under the carpet."
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Aditya_V »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Being abroad in pursuit of better living is not a problem. But we have to accept the fact when children of leaders and top Industrialists stay there, it does give the host country leverage.
Gap between Indian and West used to be really staggering. Arabs were a bit closer and hence tended to go back for Govt job and Ayesha/Ayesha's at home. Arab women fought tooth and nail to not go back unless there was a lot of money. Also there were no private colleges and if one were academically challenged, even money could not buy you a seat. Hence many had to go abroad for studies. This has now changed quite dramatically.

Recently with the flood of R2I the number of long term green card is also reducing. Fewer rich kids are going. In my area of Massaland at least 1/3 of the Desi crowd, esp. professional, has returned with more leaving every day it feels like.

Even though their lives are privileged, I still give props to those who remain despite having options. Lets not attack their loyalty on this basis.
Where have I attacked NRI's, but lets face the fact that if crucial leaders important relatives are in a country, the host will have host of leverages which cannot be ignored.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Prem »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 90868.html

The Roots of India's Antigraft Churn
The country has changed in the last 20 years. But neither the government nor civil society gets it.
PRATAP BHANU MEHTA
In the past, India's government ruled in relative secrecy and was ensconced in a rigid hierarchy. Even though New Delhi was accountable at the end of the day to the electorate, it presumed that the millions of files that documented the minutiae of regulations and ministerial actions would remain hidden from public gaze. It also presumed those affiliated with the central government wouldn't challenge it. Twenty years ago, moreover, India's middle class was firmly allied with the state. These professionals held positions in the higher bureaucracy or in other state institutions.The first tectonic movement is where the middle class stands today. They have been the biggest and most immediate beneficiaries of liberalization in the last twenty years. They have no reason today to stick up for the state. In fact, Mr. Hazare is joined by middle-class professionals, who have made the anticorruption movement savvy and media-friendly.Middle-class protesters in New Delhi demand growth without corruption.Second, there are fewer secrets now. In 2005, parliament passed the Right to Information Act, which helped civil libertarians and journalists get access to information. Who is paying which political party how much, how did ministers decide to give a highways contract to this firm— the answers to some of these questions can turn out to be incriminating. India's democratic system of checks and balances is then not only functioning, but has gotten stronger. There are now varied interest groups demanding more of the government, perhaps the most important of which is the middle class.
The ruling Congress Party has spectacularly misdiagnosed this point. First, its strategists convinced themselves that the middle class is not going to be consequential to electoral politics, and therefore can be ignored. It is precisely this sentiment that has made the party complacent about the need for more economic reform. Second, Congress underestimated the fact that, under the Indian republic's checks and balances, independent institutions would assert themselves. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has kept telling Parliament that the national auditor is not to be taken seriously, but Indians aren't listening to him.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by achy »

I am not sure why PBM is giving statusquoist arguement. It is clear as daylight that existing institution have been co-opted, subverted,managed and ultimately failed. It has created a system of no risk and high reward wrt corruption. In this scenario, A stong stick needs to be there to strike fear against collusive corruption of ruling elite. We may find fault or objection to some of the provisions, but to say that entire JLP is draconian is to miss woods for trees and to put it bluntly, it is disingenous.

I think the Anna team has grasped the reason for this anger and they have correctly calibrated the movement by first creating the stick and then focussing on other aspects of governance. This movement, in many ways, has been a game changer and is ultimately a fight to take back the governance from a few mai-baap to make it responsive and accountable to citizenry. It will be a long drawn and messy fight but India needs this fight.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by sanjeevpunj »

The fire needs to be stoked now and then,it will consume the corruption and only then will it end.I wish the youth really emulate at least some of Anna's traits - specially brahmcharya and focussed,rightful speech.Youth need to awaken each other.The distractions of cinema world notwithstanding, the youth must follow a determined path in their lives.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... ical-arena

Anna Hazare, Jan Lokpal Bill, India's youth and the decline of the Congress Party...
Anna Hazare’s Jan Lokpal agitation seemed to be resonating well with Indian youth, and Gandhi could no longer afford to choose the timing of his interventions. “Our worry has been that it is the Congress party that has brought in important Acts like the Rural Guarantee Scheme, Right to Information and compulsory education. Yet, even the youth seem more interested in joining the anti-government protests. We need to go back and tell them what the Congress stands for,” a young Congress MP tells Open.

If young urban voters move away, it could affect the future of the Congress far more than that of the JD-U, RJD or any other party that relies predominantly on rural support. That the Anna protest did not have a caste-specific or communal support base, of course, was not lost on Rahul Gandhi. He himself has been speaking against identity-led political mobilisations, asking voters to vote for those who deliver good governance. That it should be Anna Hazare’s movement that manages to rally Indians across the identity spectrum, thus, was not something easy to come to terms with. It was, and is, a threat to his agenda, especially if the Government is seen as delivering poor governance.

+++
There are other implications too. The pace of the youth empowerment drive that his party says Gandhi is ushering in, might well be decided by Anna Hazare and his future protests. The first indication that Hazare’s interventions in governance would be multi-pronged came on 28 August, when he triumphantly broke his fast. He announced that his fast was merely being suspended, and the agitation had other goals to achieve. For the Congress and UPA caught in scam after scam, time is running out. If the urban middle-class moves away, its hold on power will weaken.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

Yuvraj was heckled yday by relatives of the wounded when he visited them in hospital - "rahul gandhi sharm karo, atank ke saath rajniti mat karo" (have some shame rahul gandhi, do not play politics with terrorism)

meantime another ex-karnataka CM and his wife could be sarkari guests soon if their anticipatory bail plea in Karnataka HC gets rejected today. it has already been rejected in lokayukta court.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Philip »

Manish,I was unaware of the Le Monde pediction about MMS.It answers a lot of Q's.In hidsight,MMS-ex IMF babu, has been parachuted into the seat of the PM of India through a well-orchestrated conspiracy which goes back a long time.MMS has never failed to acknowledge while abroad that all his values and learning came from the instituions he was at,giving India the land he represents very little rcognition.Any wonder that he has been a loyal and faithful butler to the Uncle Sam in pursuing the west's policies for India ?
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Atri »

devesh wrote:the Rashtra's political pyramid is unraveling. this is partly a response to the Anna/Baba movements. some "useful idiots" are now becoming "useless idiots" and hence being discarded. all this might be clever Chanakyan moves by INC, but sometimes you can be too clever for your own good. they still require a stable coalition. if they keep screwing with one ally after another, then it's hard to see how they want their allies to have confidence in them...

also, funny how it's the potential enemies and real enemies only that are biting the dust. the "friends" and the inner coterie remain untouched. apparently, all the little guys are so powerful and the big guys so powerless, that only the little guys are looting and big guys can't stop it... :roll:
There is a problem here, Devesh ji..

People like Amar singh, kalmadi, kanimoli, a raja, perhaps P chiddu, sibbal, and ultimately the 3G will be arrested. But what if they are not convicted in courts? What if they are acquitted due to lack of evidence or independent corroboration or something else? they come out heroes.. This is the fate of 3G at least. They will be released by courts. Then they will claim to have mandate of people and judiciary. basically, their image is polished.

hence I am afraid of this serial arrests of corrupt netas.. I hope the evidence and charge-sheet is strong enough to convict them and put them "in" for at least a decade. If these arrests are controlled by 3G and their handlers (what radha rajan calls "a generic church"), then they are playing a calculated, yet dangerous game.

secondly, even if these people are convicted, they still have a constituency. for eg. 3G will never be defeated from Amethi OR Raibareili. they get elected from one seat and then claim to have mandate of janta, forgetting that the janta shouting against corruption on streets is also a mandate.

restructuring of the loksabha constituencies is essential now. On related topic, Jammu should have more seats than kashmir in J&K assembly...
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

Atri wrote:
devesh wrote:the Rashtra's political pyramid is unraveling. this is partly a response to the Anna/Baba movements. some "useful idiots" are now becoming "useless idiots" and hence being discarded. all this might be clever Chanakyan moves by INC, but sometimes you can be too clever for your own good. they still require a stable coalition. if they keep screwing with one ally after another, then it's hard to see how they want their allies to have confidence in them...

also, funny how it's the potential enemies and real enemies only that are biting the dust. the "friends" and the inner coterie remain untouched. apparently, all the little guys are so powerful and the big guys so powerless, that only the little guys are looting and big guys can't stop it... :roll:
There is a problem here, Devesh ji..

People like Amar singh, kalmadi, kanimoli, a raja, perhaps P chiddu, sibbal, and ultimately the 3G will be arrested. But what if they are not convicted in courts? What if they are acquitted due to lack of evidence or independent corroboration or something else? they come out heroes.. This is the fate of 3G at least. They will be released by courts. Then they will claim to have mandate of people and judiciary. basically, their image is polished.

hence I am afraid of this serial arrests of corrupt netas.. I hope the evidence and charge-sheet is strong enough to convict them and put them "in" for at least a decade. If these arrests are controlled by 3G and their handlers (what radha rajan calls "a generic church"), then they are playing a calculated, yet dangerous game.

secondly, even if these people are convicted, they still have a constituency. for eg. 3G will never be defeated from Amethi OR Raibareili. they get elected from one seat and then claim to have mandate of janta, forgetting that the janta shouting against corruption on streets is also a mandate.

restructuring of the loksabha constituencies is essential now. On related topic, Jammu should have more seats than kashmir in J&K assembly...

Sirjee,

The purpose of the arrest is just to strong arm the concerned parties to unload some of the loot. The kangress also needs to fill its own war chest.

Look at how one self confessed dravidian scumbag escaped recent arrest. It must have cost that creep many thousands of crores. See how neatly the kangress managed the DDM, both print and TV. After the media cresendo that was orchestrated and built up about his impending arrest and incarceration, the price negotiations were completed, mysteriously thereafter, there was no fuss in any news paper and no hysterical, padma bhushan type anchors breathing heavily about said pretty boy dravidian on prime time TV every night.

Just a complete pin drop silence in the media followed by a bland CBI report at the end of it to say that there was no evidence whatsoever found against said creep. Nary any sign of arrest or even near to drafting an application for permission to avail of home cooked food in case of said creep being lodged temporarily in secure government accommodations.

kangress has this routine down pat. Took years to perfect. The over confident, self confessed dravidians took two rockets to the nether regions before they realized that they were just too small to play with the big boys in Delhi.

alleged aryans 3, (raja, kani and said creep)

self confessed dravidians 0

edited strictly to accommodate delicate sensibilities onlee. :)
Last edited by chetak on 08 Sep 2011 15:50, edited 1 time in total.
RajeshA
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by RajeshA »

We should stop this aryan-dravidian nonsense.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Sanku »

RajeshA wrote:We should stop this aryan-dravidian nonsense.
I believe that was sarcasm directed against this sort of nonsense from a certain party.

:P
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by IndraD »

Anyway, today, while attemping an anatomy of corruption, I would like to share a hilarious taxonomy of corruption which is truly laden with truth (inputs received from many friends, including a couple in the Govt Department). In the Nawabi Urdu lingo, the classification reads as Nazrana, Sukrana, Mehnatana, Jabrana, and finally, Milkar Churana!

Nazrana, Sukrana and Mehnatana are the pedestrian genres of corruption which are all pervasive, and the Trade dealing with Government necessarily factors them in their costs of doing business. Often, the Trade would not complain about these forms of corruption even if the economy, as a result, becomes less competitive. Nazrana is a kind of gift which a Rajdoot (Ambassador) used to carry when he visited a neighbouring kingdom. It was a gift, a token of respect, even if given grudgingly. In not only the Indian history but also the European, such a gift had a social sanction and was within the affordable limits. Similarly, when a senior officer takes charge in any department with which Trade has to regularly deal with, the Trade calls on the officer and presents a Nazrana. It serves twin purposes - one, it shows respect for the officer, and two, it gives opportunity to the trade representative to explore the possibility of collusive corruption in future. It's like testing the waters before 'fishing'!.

Sukrana is the second variety of 'innocuous' form of corruption which is best illustrated by the conduct of the Trade when an officer, be it factory Inspector or an Excise Inspector, visits factory and gives a satisfactory report. No abuse of power or display of nuisance value - a rare event - prods the taxpayer to offer a gift to say thanks. A kind of sukriya! Officers do look for sukrana and the Trade obliges – no issues!.

The third variety of affordable corruption is Mehnatana. Here the officer puts in extra effort to ensure that the legitimate work of the citizen or trade gets done. Something like an Inspector traveling 20 kms in a bus to inspect factory stuffing at an odd hour. Trade is often willing to oblige and consider such obligations as Mehnatana of the Inspector. All these forms of corruption to some extent have social sanction, and therefore, dealing with them like a criminal offence may not be a pragmatic option. Any offence taken to a criminal court would mean that all the rules of adversarial justice system come into play. The corrupt officer, though Trade, would not call him so, would have to be considered innocent till proven guilty, and the onus of bringing clinching evidence would be on the prosecution. A very tall order, given the reality of its pervasive nature, unwillingness of the Trade in India to give evidence and social sanction it has received.
Hilarious article on corruption
Full article on how to deal with this form of corruption
http://www.taxindiaonline.com/RC2/insid ... wsid=13144
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by chetak »

RajeshA wrote:We should stop this aryan-dravidian nonsense.
chillax

sarcasm onlee sirjee. :D

Offending post now edited to read....

alleged aryans 3, (raja, kani and said creep)

self confessed dravidians 0
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Philip wrote:Manish,I was unaware of the Le Monde pediction about MMS.It answers a lot of Q's.In hidsight,MMS-ex IMF babu, has been parachuted into the seat of the PM of India through a well-orchestrated conspiracy which goes back a long time.MMS has never failed to acknowledge while abroad that all his values and learning came from the instituions he was at,giving India the land he represents very little rcognition.Any wonder that he has been a loyal and faithful butler to the Uncle Sam in pursuing the west's policies for India ?
Philip this is a channel of Youtube called "bharatkiawaaz" they have exposed the whole thing, unfortunately the whole thing is in hindi only if you understand then listen its detailed and amazing:



Philip
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Philip »

Tx Manish.It is a revelation.I've known for a long time the qustionable "economics" of his Snacho Panza "Money-take Singh Alley-wallah" though!
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?734038
Manish Tewari's public expression of regret for his outburst against Anna Hazare has failed to cut much ice with the anti-corruption crusader, who today sent a legal notice to the Congress spokesman seeking a written apology for calling him corrupt from "head to toe".

Hazare's lawyer Milind Pawar sent the notice by email and registered post to Tewari on the instructions of the Gandhian. Pawar had earlier said a defamation case would be filed against the Congress MP in a Pune court for casting aspersions on Hazare.

The notice calls upon Tewari to "apologise with written application by you and on behalf of your party, undertaking not to commit such false imputations and defamatory statements (about Hazare) in future".

It says the Congress leader had committed offence under sections 499 and 500 of IPC by his defamatory references to Hazare.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 912328.cms
BJP leader LK Advani on Thursday made a surprise announcement of undertaking a yatra across the country against the menace of corruption, a move seen as an attempt by him to get a grip over the party.

"I have decided to take out a yatra against corruption. The name of the yatra, its timing, point of origin and other details will be worked out with the party. Its focus will be on good governance and clean politics," the 83-year-old leader told reporters.

The decision of the quintessential rathyatri is likely to queer the pitch for some of the Gen-Next leaders who have been eyeing the highest position in the BJP hierarchy.

Asked if this would settle the leadership issue within BJP and if he would be the party's prime ministerial candidate in the next general elections, he evaded a reply.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by gakakkad »

Where is sheela mijjileshit these days ? DDM not harassing her for cwg ?
Last edited by archan on 09 Sep 2011 20:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: warning issued. Language.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Kanson »

http://twitter.com/#!/Swamy39/status/111752227454058496


Legal_Point Legal Point
2G scam hearing over! Fireworks between Prashant Bhushan nd CBI counsel.. @swamy39 also argued on Home Min. Detains to follow! #LPT
4 hours ago

in reply to @Legal_Point ↑
Subramanian Swamy
@Swamy39 Subramanian Swamy
@Legal_Point Completed arguments. PC advocate wanted copies my correpondence with CBI. new date 20th
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by Singha »

imo she is one of the much lesser 'evils' of the INC troop.
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by devesh »

Atri ji,

you might be right about that. but that is an extremely dangerous game to play if you are worried about your survival. if they are not convicted but released, the consequences on the psyche of the citizenry will be profound. the section which blindly votes for them b/c of certain incentives will continue to do so. but a larger portion will find solace in cynical anger. the disgust and more fundamentally a sense of alienation from the System itself will take root in certain factions. increasingly, the Rashtra is headed in this direction only.

INC is winning temporary battles, but it is also sowing the seeds of alienated factions which don't think on the same frequency as 2G (Sonia+Rahul). Bengal is heading in this direction too based on the reaction to the recent events concerning B'desh. the Deccan increasingly shows signs of similar future path. Telangana is already on this path. one has to see if similar alienation will result in Coastal Andhra (for number of factors: EJ's and the Telangana bungle). Karnataka is also in the same boat. Punjab+Gujarat also have rich opportunities for Paschim alliance b/c of convergence on various issues, especially the happenings on the other side of the border. Rajasthan will join this alliance.

the Delhi durbar of course remains blissfully insulated, b/c that's what Delhi has been doing for centuries now, whenever it was convenient.

I remember your post about the "Shudra" class giving birth to the other 3 classes. I wonder, if the Gangetic plains will produce another Chandragupta Maurya...the Dalits here are not all gone. I am sure there are "moles within moles" (hat-tip to Brihaspati ji :wink: )
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Re: The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Post by vijayk »

Pranay wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 912328.cms
BJP leader LK Advani on Thursday made a surprise announcement of undertaking a yatra across the country against the menace of corruption, a move seen as an attempt by him to get a grip over the party.

"I have decided to take out a yatra against corruption. The name of the yatra, its timing, point of origin and other details will be worked out with the party. Its focus will be on good governance and clean politics," the 83-year-old leader told reporters.

The decision of the quintessential rathyatri is likely to queer the pitch for some of the Gen-Next leaders who have been eyeing the highest position in the BJP hierarchy.

Asked if this would settle the leadership issue within BJP and if he would be the party's prime ministerial candidate in the next general elections, he evaded a reply.
Good... I know TOIlet CON media will try to make this as PM fight in BJP. But BJP has to focus on CON scams, 2G SWISS accounts and CORRUPTION. Don't leave it all for Kejriwals who run to Bukhari if he sneezes.
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