The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Sep 2011 17:15

Sanku ji,

if the green shoots are allowed to grow and become adult sized, then certain sections of the Desh (geographically) will start seeing "enlightenment" within the next few decades. after that, the struggle will be to build a social structure which can sustain this thought process through any kind of hardship or luxury (both the extremes can be dangerous to balanced thought). the political wing of this section needs to be careful. they need to carry out the goals which are ultimately beneficial for Bharat, and have to do it without majorly pissing off the existing power structures of the mullah-mafia networks, or any other such commercial/political networks. this can only be successful if there are several "awakenings" in different parts of the country.

we can't have only a part of the country going through the process of renewal. it has to be spread out. otherwise, it's an easy target to wipe out.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 14 Sep 2011 17:40

Sharad Pawar fooled all with Rs12 crore assets disclosure - http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sh ... re_1586905

Records show Pawar’s family, including his wife and daughter Supriya Sule, are investors in Panchshil Realty Group which has grown at a phenomenal pace over the past decade. The group undertakes mega-sized, premium projects in infrastructure, information technology, special economic zones, hospitality, corporate parks and residential constructions.

Panchshil Realty Group first came into limelight in April 2011 when leader of opposition in the Maharashtra assembly Eknath Khadse drew attention to a February 8, 2010, Eon Aviation flight to Dubai.Passengers on the flight included Pawar, his wife, the then DB Realty managing director Shahid Balwa and his partner Vinod Goenka (both jailed in connection with the 2G scam), apart from four others.

A DNA probe has revealed that in 2010, as per the RoC records, the registered office address of DB Realty’s Eon Aviation Pvt Ltd was 31/A, ground floor, Dr Gopalrao Deshmukh Marg, Pedder Road, Mumbai.

The address is the same as that of Pawar’s Panchshil Hotels Pvt Ltd and other Panchshil Realty firms such as EON Kharadi Infrastructure Pvt Ltd and Eon Hadapsar Infrastructure Pvt Ltd.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2011 17:49

From When bribery became official in India rediff.com, Sep 14, 2011

Following several twists and turns the case ended with a Supreme Court ruling on April 17, 1998 that MPs could not be prosecuted for their actions in Parliament. (Justice S C Agrawal and Justice A S Anand dissented from the majority opinion given by Justice S P Bharucha and Justice S Rajendra Babu, with a separate concurrence by Justice G N Ray.) The reverberations of that judgment are still echoing,

Staggeringly, the Jharkhand Mukti Morcha leaders calmly accepted that they had received money from the Congress. But, according to them, this was a voluntary donation by the Congress of Rs 1.02 crore (Rs 10.2 million) 'for the cause espoused by the party and for the welfare of the people of Jharkhand,' and that 'this amount was deposited in the bank accounts in the name of executives functioning for JMM party for the reason that the party can function in that area through its office bearers.'

This 'donated' amount, they claimed, could not be taxed even if the bank accounts were in the names of certain individuals rather than that of their party.

'The JMM and Congress had agreed to cooperate with each other. The Congress party approached the JMM party to help it in the national interest and not to vote against the Narasimha Rao government in Parliament,' was how one of their lawyers summed it up.

R P Tolani and A K Garodia of the income tax appellate tribunal accepted this argument, waiving both the tax and the penalty demanded by the assessment officer in 1997.

If you take the Supreme Court judgment to its logical conclusion no member of Parliament may be prosecuted for accepting a bribe. Following the income tax appellate tribunal's decision one cannot even claim to tax the bribe money if it is classified as a 'donation', least of all one made 'in the national interest.'

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 14 Sep 2011 18:26

joshvajohn wrote:Black money trail: 2nd list of Indian Swiss accounts to be shared
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 977871.cms

I do not know whether Indian govt will be bothered with this list!?

I think BR should start going around the nation (especially North, west and east) in Bharat Mata back rath. He should just keep raising one demand: SWISS bank accounts and Black money. Just ignore the bloody CON media. He has enough background to attract a lot of people. Keep attacking 2 Gs and chamchas. Only one mantra: REVEAL SWISS BANK ACCOUNT NAMES AND GET THE BLACK MONEY HOME. The janata will understand.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 Sep 2011 18:41

Even in TN while it looks like a wave lets keep in mind about 25% of the electorate still voted for DMK. About 36% voted for AMMA. A swing of just about 5% from DMK to AMMA or vice versa causes this whiplash effect in TN. This happens because the two parties compete head to head against each other so if one loses the other gains directly.

It is possible that the Third front might resurrect or the BJP might even gain more seats due to the stench from the UPA. But the Congress vote base remains intact. There is a large section, maybe even a majority of India, that votes for the hand because of all the subsidy hand outs. No one else is willing to help them or even recognize they exist, they need these hand outs to survive. As long as this base exists, Congress will remain in its present form.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 14 Sep 2011 18:49

VijayK at one point of time I will do certainly! yes until this black money is back at least in the form of investment in India (or somewhere that will create jobs for people but pay some tax as well), people will keep shouting or asking! no govt can hide themselves nor their names! This should happen either voluntarily or through other means!

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Sep 2011 19:07

Theo ji,

good point. if there is incentive to bring back black money, or stop stashing in the first place, then perhaps, alternate models to the current "hand-outs" model of INC can be developed. this will go a long way in creating investment in India, improving peoples' lives, and also in de-legitimizing Congress in the citizens' minds. this might be why INC isn't interested in the issue. ultimately, the out-migration of Black Money keeps INC alive...

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 14 Sep 2011 23:01

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... le/846643/
Graft during YSR rule in AP was above norm in India: US cable

The YSR government's 'flagship programmes' – construction of irrigation projects and houses for weaker sections – were beset with corruption even as Rajasekhara Reddy used the populist spending programmes to great political effect, the cable said.

''There is consensus in Andhra Pradesh that irrigation and housing programmes are beset with corruption. On separate visits to Hyderabad, we heard allegations of widespread graft from several neutral observers, the consul general said in the cable.

An economist who studies the effectiveness of government programmes in the state said with only 'four to five companies executing the projects, there were many opportunities for graft in the irrigation programme,' the consul general said in the cable.

"Typically, five to seven per cent is lost to corruption, but in Reddy's irrigation programme that figure is more like 15 to 20 per cent," he said.

While the housing programme will cost $4 to 6 billion, the irrigation programme costs more than $11 billion over five years on 26 major irrigation projects, the US cable said.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Sep 2011 23:42

vijayk wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... le/846643/
Graft during YSR rule in AP was above norm in India: US cable

''There is consensus in Andhra Pradesh that irrigation and housing programmes are beset with corruption. On separate visits to Hyderabad, we heard allegations of widespread graft from several neutral observers, the consul general said in the cable.

An economist who studies the effectiveness of government programmes in the state said with only 'four to five companies executing the projects, there were many opportunities for graft in the irrigation programme,' the consul general said in the cable.

"Typically, five to seven per cent is lost to corruption, but in Reddy's irrigation programme that figure is more like 15 to 20 per cent," he said.

While the housing programme will cost $4 to 6 billion, the irrigation programme costs more than $11 billion over five years on 26 major irrigation projects, the US cable said.

15-20 percent of $11 billion = 1.65-2.2 billion $ which is (at 45rs/dollar) about 74.25-99 billion Rs i.e. 7,425 crore-9,900 crore Rs.

How come Americans know what our security agencies do not know?

It is public money that was stolen and it was public money that was wasted in salaries of nikamma investigators.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 15 Sep 2011 04:24

It is very easy to loot 20% of a government projects cost legally. No shenanigans required. IMO project cost escalation or increasing contractor margins would not qualify as corruption. Real corruption is when money is paid for illegally activities, say logging in a national forest after 'payment' or stealing sand from a river and paying the cop.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 15 Sep 2011 05:32

I don't understand why people are so disturbed by black money. Whats your problem? Do you want the corrupt govt and politicos to take the money and and put into their pockets? First of all, the leftist govt that has ruled India 90% of the time since 1947 never cared for wealth creators. They have made you the wealth creators the villians of the nation and the Chinese commies as friends. Do you really want to give a rats butts to these buggers and their thought? I didn't think so.

I say, to all the rich Indians with Black money. You are doing good. Do not feed the beast. You have done good by the fact, that you have not fed the beast that is addicted to socialism. You have not commited a sin by participating in their scams to give free Color TV for votes for e.g.

However, if you are a patriot, educate the children of your household help, your servants, drivers kids, send them abroad for higher education after college. Ask your spouse who sitting in the house doing nothing to go over to the neighborhood slums and help them run a clinic using your black money. Do Seva. But do not pay your Taxes. And for Gawds sake, do not send your money to temples cause the congressies govt would take that money. The Indian govt controls Temple money. Do not send money to Hindu Temples thinking that the Temple in India has freedom to use that money. The temple do not even have the authority to pay the priests who work there minimum wage. The Indian govt does not trust Hindu Temples to manage their own funds Like they trust Mosques and churches. This is a fact. Google for it and learn for your self. Until 2 years go I never knew that Thirupathi funds are controlled by Indian Govt. There is a case going on where the Govt wants to take the money from Thirupathi temple to use it to improve the local railway station. The commie batards who are running the railway is unable to run a profitable line to maintain a rail system, so they want to penalize the religious Hindus exclusively (its not like the "sekularist commie Hindus donates money to temples) . Hindu priests are crawling on the floor as dirty poor. Temple Priests live in near abject poverty (and no, I am not a Brahmin.. I am in the middle of caste totem pole. But I see the horror and injustice in India that is going on) . This is the truth. The Hindu priests do not get 5% of the money a Christian pastor who works for World Vision makes. But they are the most hated people by the leftie batards of India.

Black money does not tarnish the economy. The black money keeps the economy going nevertheless. It's just that the thieves, the corrupt, the parasites of society do not get their hands on it. But the Free market of arbitration of supply and Demand goes on. And screw the lefties. They are too dumb and too stupid to figure these things out. These lefties almost bankrupted India in 1992.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 15 Sep 2011 06:39

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... referendum

“Put the Lokpal Bill to referendum”

Prashant Bhushan, one of the chief architects of the Jan Lokpal Bill, speaks to Open in its defence.

Q. How fundamental is the Jan Lokpal Bill in the fight against corruption?

A. In order to understand why corruption has proliferated to such an extent, one needs to see both the demand and supply side of corruption. Corruption is caused both by policies that create incentives for corruption as well as on account of the lack of credible institutions that will punish the corrupt and thereby put the brakes on corruption. So, if you have a situation where you have policies that are creating huge incentives for corruption and do not have an institution that can create disincentives for corruption, then obviously corruption will proliferate. To deal with corruption, you will have to tackle both the aspects, that is, the supply side and the demand side. The Jan Lokpal Bill is designed to tackle the supply side of corruption, by seeking to create an independent, credible institution with unfettered power—unfettered by the government—to investigate cases of corruption and prosecute the guilty.

It is very easy to say you are undermining democracy. What kind of democracy do we have? You have a corrupted election process by which you elect people, and then for five years they are supposed to rule you without any reference to the people. Democracy means rule by the people. That is why we are saying the next thrust of Anna Hazare’s campaign would be to make democracy more participatory. Institutionalising the participation of people in the democratic decision-making can be done in many ways. For example, the nuclear deal should have been put to a referendum in this country. The Lokpal Bill can also be put to a referendum. Let the government’s Lokpal Bill be put to a referendum vis-à-vis our Jan Lokpal Bill or any other Lokpal Bill prepared by any other credible citizens’ organisation. In the previous century, there was no mechanism to get people to participate in decision-making. Today it is possible because of technology. Why, then, should we not institutionalise a more participatory form of democracy. It is alright to question whether Anna Hazare represents the will of the people. It is true that you can’t determine this. But the government did respond to Anna Hazare. It does not respond to anybody who goes on a fast. It responded to Anna Hazare only because it felt that today he commands the support of a very large section of society. Now we are saying, let us institutionalise this, let us find some way of determining how many people support what, how many people want what. Instead of allowing these intermediaries who are elected once in five years, we need to democratise the decision-making process in such situation.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 15 Sep 2011 06:48

Manny wrote:I don't understand why people are so disturbed by black money. Whats your problem? Do you want the corrupt govt and politicos to take the money and and put into their pockets? First of all, the leftist govt that has ruled India 90% of the time since 1947 never cared for wealth creators. They have made you the wealth creators the villians of the nation and the Chinese commies as friends. Do you really want to give a rats butts to these buggers and their thought? I didn't think so.

Because many of those with huge Swiss bank accounts will turn out to belong to politicians unable to account for how they got there.
It is expected that a lot of 2G scam and other loot is lying around there. We can confiscate it.
G-family also has many billions lying around in there. This will be very embarrassing for them.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 15 Sep 2011 07:24

Bhushan, Arundhati share dais for arrested journalist

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 15 Sep 2011 13:31

abhishek_sharma wrote:Bhushan, Arundhati share dais for arrested journalist

Hum panchhi ek daal ke...birds of a feather - Bhushan, Arundhati, Agnivesh - all jumping to the defence of this Naxalite. Must be an important person in the org.
viewtopic.php?p=1161612#p1161612

Along with the contractor, the police arrested Lingaram, and claimed that another Naxalite associate, a woman named Soni Sodi, managed to escape from the market.
The arrests are likely to be contentious. A resident of Sameli village, Kodopi shot to fame last year when the police named him in a press release as the 'mastermind' of a Naxal attack and as the successor of slain Maoist spokesperson Azad.

According to the police, Kodappi was the mastermind of the attack on Congress leader Awdhesh Singh Gautam’s Dantewada home in July 2010. He had later surfaced in Delhi at a press conference along with Swami Agnivesh.
Asked about Kodappi’s arrest, Agnivesh told The Sunday Express: “I know him as a student of journalism. He is a simple tribal youth. I have no information of his links with Naxals. Once again, he is being framed.”

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 15 Sep 2011 14:20

George Fernandes removes Sonia Gandhi's picture, that was placed next to pictures of PM - Abdul Kalam - Ambedkar - Rajendra Prasad in the Constitution Club..

George: I think a son of a Slave must have placed it there. A good person wouldn't have done such a thing.
George: What is the point of this ?
George: Have these people(Nehrus) bought out the nation ?
George: Nehru Dynasty ? What kind of dynasty is it.. the one that loots..
Reporter from Aaj Tak: Should the picture be removed ?
George: Definitely!.
Geroge: Why not ? On what basis should it be there ?
George: Because she is 'Gori' (White) ?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Sep 2011 14:33

^^^^

This event happened in 2004.. thanks for reminding the fiery George.. man is down with illness, now..

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Sep 2011 15:32

^^^

OT, It was heart breaking to see the man during the last election.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 15 Sep 2011 18:28

Montek Singh Ahluwalia against CAG scrutiny of PPP projects

new delhi: The Plan Panel is against CAG scrutiny on the role of private sector players implementing the Public Private Partnership projects running into thousands of crores. “The performance of the public part of the project should be subject to proper scrutiny but obviously where the private sector (is given) flexibility ... you cannot subject that to CAG scrutiny,” Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/brief ... s/845723/0

SEBI Appointments controversy - http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... km-abraham

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court is likely to witness a high-profile court room drama later this month with former solicitor general Gopal Subramaniam likely to represent a group of anti-corruption campaigners who have challenged the appointment of U K Sinha as Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Board of India.

Prashant Kumar, an advocate acting on behalf of the group, called India Rejuvination Initiative - that includes Julio Riberio, a celebrated police officer of the 1980s, and S Krishnaswamy, a former air chef marshal - said a petition would be filed this week.

Police try to protect Sales Tax Official's son who paralyzed Team Anna volunteer while driving drunk

SUNIL DUBEY, 24, Pursuing MBA, was returning home from friend's place when his bike ran out of petrol. He placed the bike on the left corner of the road and asked his pillion ride Murli to call someone with petrol. In this course they parked the bike and were waiting for friends, when suddenly an uncontrolled Maruti Suzuki Alto Car UP-32 BT 5294, rammed into Sunil and instantly broke his spine. Meanwhile Murli, the pillion who was standing next was saved by a whisker and he called his friends to the spot while trying to move the car away from Sunil's body which was still stuck under it. When somehow the car was moved, the door was opened and a heavily drunk man between 30-35 years age came out. He was not even able to stand properly. This man was handed over to the police and Sunil was rushed to the hospital. But the FIR lodged read "UNKNOWN" person knocked down Sunil. This was not at all acceptable by the Guys so they went to the accident spot to look for the car registration papers which could establish the identity at least. On reaching the scene, they saw that the car was being taken away and hence they intercepted the person in the car. They asked that either the car be left on the spot or taken to police station but the person was not interested in both. So the guys asked for the papers which he had no intentions to give, hence the guys opened the door of the car to lay hand on any documents which could establish the id. They found a briefcase attached with a bag. The bag had the registration papers, which read "SUBHASH CHANDRA RAM" and his address as 638/A-79/1, Shivajipuram, Lane 4, sector 14, Indira Nagar, Lucknow. The took a photostat of the papers in the morning and returned the briefcase and bag to the officer on duty. This man Subhash Chandra Ram turned out to be a Deputy Commissioner, Sales Tax posted in Lucknow and the person driving the car was his son Sudhir Kumar.

Now the police is in connivance with the bureaucrat and is harassing the guys who were witness to the case and who helped Sunil reach hospital and got the identity established and took the drunkard sudhir to police. The police is now lodging a counter FIR of robbery against these students who till now have no criminal antecedent. The purpose is to pressurise the guys to abstain from court proceedings and help the culprit go scot-free. Sunil, the victim is paralysed for life. He was an athlete and a break dancer and today, he is confined to bed, even unable to move.

http://tl.gd/d3h532

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Sep 2011 21:40

Murugan wrote:Yest with Timesnow Annaji denied floating any party.

But he made impractical suggestions that the good, charitryavan, honest people in both the parties should leave their parties and start a new front. He will not lead or guide the front - he said categorically.

Somehow i felt a big disconnect with what he was saying.

Also he mentioned that Baba Ramdev and IAC will support each other but will not share stage in campaign (because i have already taken the advantage when Baba Ramdev introduced me to his followers on a stage and now i have garnered support of many baba could not imagine). AH went Kejriwal way with Baba.

I felt that aside from obvious charisma, AH showed a kind of SDRE shrewdness (also seen with MKG). Inviting 'good character' people to come out of their parties to fight elections is a way to break the omerta solidarity that the pols have. JP did the same when he midwifed Janata party.

Keeping away from BR , RSS et al is strategically necessary for AH to keep his movement alive in an India run by DIE and a GOI that is waiting for any excuse to unleash repression. As it is, there will be massive heartburn in the DIE qaum at the unabashed references to Hindu sacred symbols like Tulsi.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 15 Sep 2011 21:47

csaurabh wrote:
Manny wrote:I don't understand why people are so disturbed by black money. Whats your problem? Do you want the corrupt govt and politicos to take the money and and put into their pockets? First of all, the leftist govt that has ruled India 90% of the time since 1947 never cared for wealth creators. They have made you the wealth creators the villians of the nation and the Chinese commies as friends. Do you really want to give a rats butts to these buggers and their thought? I didn't think so.
Because many of those with huge Swiss bank accounts will turn out to belong to politicians unable to account for how they got there.
It is expected that a lot of 2G scam and other loot is lying around there. We can confiscate it.
G-family also has many billions lying around in there. This will be very embarrassing for them.

Also because overseas black money makes it easier to fund private armies, pay and receive bribes, illegally sell public assets etc.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Sep 2011 22:46

KLNMurthy wrote:
Murugan wrote:Yest with Timesnow Annaji denied floating any party.

But he made impractical suggestions that the good, charitryavan, honest people in both the parties should leave their parties and start a new front. He will not lead or guide the front - he said categorically.

Somehow i felt a big disconnect with what he was saying.

Also he mentioned that Baba Ramdev and IAC will support each other but will not share stage in campaign (because i have already taken the advantage when Baba Ramdev introduced me to his followers on a stage and now i have garnered support of many baba could not imagine). AH went Kejriwal way with Baba.
I felt that aside from obvious charisma, AH showed a kind of SDRE shrewdness (also seen with MKG). Inviting 'good character' people to come out of their parties to fight elections is a way to break the omerta solidarity that the pols have. JP did the same when he midwifed Janata party.

Keeping away from BR , RSS et al is strategically necessary for AH to keep his movement alive in an India run by DIE and a GOI that is waiting for any excuse to unleash repression. As it is, there will be massive heartburn in the DIE qaum at the unabashed references to Hindu sacred symbols like Tulsi.

That is good for both AH and Ramdev Baba both. We need alternatives

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 15 Sep 2011 22:53

anmol wrote:George Fernandes removes Sonia Gandhi's picture, that was placed next to pictures of PM - Abdul Kalam - Ambedkar - Rajendra Prasad in the Constitution Club..

George: I think a son of a Slave must have placed it there. A good person wouldn't have done such a thing.
George: What is the point of this ?
George: Have these people(Nehrus) bought out the nation ?
George: Nehru Dynasty ? What kind of dynasty is it.. the one that loots..
Reporter from Aaj Tak: Should the picture be removed ?
George: Definitely!.
Geroge: Why not ? On what basis should it be there ?
George: Because she is 'Gori' (White) ?

This is an observation made by a chaiwallah many years ago when Rajmata had just started campaigning. Chaiwallah noted how Rajmata's brown hair had become black over the last few years and how the posters and photos had radically changed to include big tikkas and bindis.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 16 Sep 2011 03:49

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 999129.cms
If Amar Singh sings, many big people will be in trouble: Jaya Prada

Hours after a Delhi court granted five days of interim bail to hospitalized Rajya Sabha MP Amar Singh, his close associate Jaya Prada issued a veiled threat that Singh held a lot of secrets and would "reveal all" at an opportune time.

"If he opens his mouth, many people will be inconvenienced. Yet, he has been patient throughout this ordeal and he has kept his secrets to himself. The big people who had benefitted from him have not even tried to find out his condition," Jaya said.

Is she sending the message to MMS and 2G masters? This is how low our Indian MPs have gone down. Is this the democratic institution that these CON secularist media and CON party claimed is being blackmailed by Anna? A couple of months ago, the honourable PM MMS says "There are a lot of skeletons in opposition cupboard" and he is the PM.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 16 Sep 2011 05:25

In respect of MP's going down in their values we need to not make this observation seeing what Jayaprada is saying or doing now. She was brought into politics and given Rajya Sabha Seat, as per the rumors, for helping Chandrababu Babu in a Court case filed by NTR. How she help was a legend in Advocates circles for about 15 years. So she can not go below in her values now. She could enter politics because of such low level only.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 16 Sep 2011 05:59

They will massage each others back for the mutual benefit of their kith and kin. They are the modern Jagidars.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Sep 2011 06:43

Manny wrote: Black money does not tarnish the economy. The black money keeps the economy going nevertheless. It's just that the thieves, the corrupt, the parasites of society do not get their hands on it.

You post is half-nonsense.

The logic is not totally wrong. But it is partially wrong because I believe that you are referring to "black money" made by genuine businessmen who are not paying tax. But the far bigger problem is "government palm greasing" money.

Black money that is made by the government employee for moving a file that allows you to buy property, build a house or start and industry and get electricity/water for that industry

Black money made in bribes by government auditors for passing faked accounts of private black money makers.

Black money made by government employees at state borders to allow travellers through in buses, allowing overloaded lorries or lorries full of illegal material - such a poached/mined stuff.

Black money made by government ministers and babus for giving permission to set up a college, allocating the land and licensing the college despite lack of teachers and basic facilities.

Black money made by police officials and policemen to let off offenders or even accept genuine complaints

Black money made by government doctors to give preferential treatment to those who pay

Black money made by government employees as kickbacks from private contractors for massive infrastrcuture jobs (say road repair) that are overinvoiced and overbilled.

So your "black money romance" is not as good as you make it sound. In fact that is how Pakistan runs. India too runs that way partially - as you have eloquently described. Only we get angry at India-Pakistan similarities. You have made a naive and ignorant post all in all.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Sep 2011 08:33

I have fresh evidence of Chidambaram's role in 2G pricing: Swamy - http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 456544.ece

Dhiman · Post by **Dhiman** » 16 Sep 2011 08:50

vijayk wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 999129.cms

"If he opens his mouth, many people will be inconvenienced. Yet, he has been patient throughout this ordeal and he has kept his secrets to himself. The big people who had benefitted from him have not even tried to find out his condition," Jaya said.

The ***** is practically self-implicating herself and that too in public as an accomplice in Amar Singh's pimpology business. If this was a normal aam admi case, she would have been arrested and interrogated at the very least.

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Sep 2011 09:24

She is talking about the 25 crores paid to each MP for supporting Congi. Amar Singh was part of the deal to convince MPs. He was instrumental in purchasing the 40 MPs during the parliament vote of confidence. He did not do it for himself, he did it for Congress UPA.

Another angle is that Mukesh & Anil were the 2 industrialists who parked their funds in the house of a central minister for the due purpose on request of Manmohan Singh. So Amar Singh can't really squeal without giving away Anil.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Sep 2011 09:48

Anna glory theme for Puja pandal decoration

GUWAHATI: Anna Hazare's crusade against corruption in Ramlila Maidan has left a deeper impact in the minds of people than many would have thought.

Pandal decoration depicting Hazare's fight against graft and Team Anna members like Arvind Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi motivating a sea of people, is set to be a grand attraction for Durga Puja this year in Guwahati.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 002245.cms

MPs 'not ready' for audit of their funds: Ramesh

Members of Parliament seeking social audit of all and sundry programmes are not willing for such a monitoring when it comes to the MPLAD Scheme, Rural Development Minister Jairam Ramesh said on Thursday.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/MPs-- ... sh/847117/

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 16 Sep 2011 16:32

shiv wrote:

The logic is not totally wrong. But it is partially wrong because I believe that you are referring to "black money" made by genuine businessmen who are not paying tax. But the far bigger problem is "government palm greasing" money.

IMVHO most of the swiss bank money is of politicians/bureaucrats .. For an industrialist it does not make sense to keep money abroad in a nearly unusable form at effectively negative interest rates. At least not these days... there are several ways of asset hiding within the country itself.. besides since the money has been legally made and asset hiding is the only offence ..if they get caught only the tax has to be paid with some penalty... that kind of gamble is worth taking instead of transferring the assets overseas ... besides most small/midsize business men don't have 1000's of crore of assets the politicians have... hiding 5-50 crore worth of assets in the country is no big deal...

For the politicians it does make sense to hide assets abroad... first thing is that they have not earned the money through hard work.. merely robbed the nation or some desperate person of their money.. so negative real interest rate makes no difference to them... their investment comes only during the investment time..for buying tickets , bribing voters campaign money, horse trading etc...ROI is 100 folds ...quantity of assets is gigantic ... since they have not earned the money legally unlike the business guy getting caught means more than just paying the 30% tax.. it also means going to jail...so international banks are a good risk free way of hiding assets...

However what manny innocently wrote that industrial black money is a good thing is utter nonsense...
Because industrial black money does not get utilized or invested with the kind of freedom white money would.. Commonly buying plots of land , bars of gold in cash is considered a good way... till that money is utilized in the system it is useless money ...

But not paying full tax still makes sense for businessmen and self employed professionals .. That is because the tax money is not effectively used by the government.. the services that citizens should obtain after paying tax are not there...And the government is devoid of proper plans of making itself useful..

We can't sleep with the conscience that our tax money is being used for fraudulent scheme's like NREGA .It finances the NHRC which is been an incessant trouble maker ,the NAC (has an annual budget of $ 1 billion , has come up with hideous laws like the sickoolar voilence bill) etc..Nothing is being done about infrastructure , law and order etc..

Factory owners in Noida have to install their own diesel generators as the electricity supply is not enough... security is a trouble in these regions so they have to pay for private security guards..When industrialists have to do government duty like providing elec for themselves etc it does not make sense to pay the taxes...

My dad has been using the harmonic knife much before it turned up in India..it so happened that power source had a defect..it had to be sent back to germany..by Indian law he would have to pay the import duty even when they sent a replacement instrument .. it simply did not make sense ... besides most countries waive import duty for medical instruments..

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Sep 2011 17:09

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?734985

Activist Kiran Bedi today said Team Anna members felt "let down" by Rahul Gandhi's lack of support for the anti-corruption movement as they thought that he would work with them to ensure that the Jan Lokpal Bill is passed in Parliament.

Bedi, one of the core members of the Team Anna Hazare, said the young Congress leader was the "biggest loss of faith in our trust".

"Rahul Gandhi was the biggest loss of faith in our trust. We thought he is a young face, who would work with us for this country's future and ensure that the Jan Lokpal Bill gets passed," she said at a panel discussion organised by the Observer Research Foundation here.

Gandhi's lack of support for their movement surprised the civil society members, Bedi said.

The Congress General Secretary had criticised the fast by Hazare and said the need of the hour was not just a strong Lokpal but make it a constitutional body like the Election Commission.

Bedi said that Team Hazare agreed to drop the demand for bringing judiciary under Lokpal after the government promised that it would bring an effective Judicial Accountability Bill in Parliament.

"The draft version of the bill does not cover judicial corruption. We had agreed to drop the demand to bring judiciary under the ambit of the Lokpal because the government had promised to include judicial corruption in the Judicial Accountability Bill.

"We will now demand that the judiciary be brought under Lokpal," Bedi said.

Bedi stressed on involving people in prelegislative procedures and described "legal illiteracy" as one of the biggest deterrents in this regard.

"Legal literacy in our country is not a preference. We don't read the bills or laws. This has been relegated to certain sections of society like key lawyers, judges, and Parliamentarians," Bedi said.

She said Lok Sabha channel should not just show live parliamentary proceedings, but also announce which bill is going to be debated on which dates on the floor of the house.

"Telephone lines should be kept open and all interested parties should be encouraged to contribute to the debate.

"This would increase legal literacy and ensure that bills are passed after due consideration from all quarters," Bedi said.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Sep 2011 17:14

gakakkad wrote: We can't sleep with the conscience that our tax money is being used for fraudulent scheme's like NREGA .It finances the NHRC which is been an incessant trouble maker ,the NAC (has an annual budget of $ 1 billion , has come up with hideous laws like the sickoolar voilence bill) etc..Nothing is being done about infrastructure , law and order etc..

Is this true NAC budget is 4500 crores, my tax money is paying Harsh Manders & Co. This crowd is really a bunch of parasites.

This very crowd often cringes at us Middle class eating at Mcdonalds etc. or buying cars worth a few lacs is robbing the country left, right and centre

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Sep 2011 17:26

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?278266

Q & A with Arvind Kejriwal... (posting in full)

Arvind Kejriwal is part of the brains trust behind the Anna Hazare movement, which has the potential to further undermine the Delhi order. The engineer-turned-civil servant-turned-RTI activist is now a mass campaigner for the Jan Lokpal bill and plans to expand the movement. He spoke to Saba Naqvi about his ideological convictions, faith in “the people”, dealings with the Aruna Roy-led National Campaign for People’s Right to Information (NCPRI) and gave details of the funding for his ventures. Excerpts:

Do you see this movement developing into a political force?

We are a political force though unfortunately democracy is only equated with elections and parties. Democracy is about participation in day-to-day governance. Yes, we’re a political force and this is a political movement. However, in the coming elections, we will not back any parties or candidates. But the issues we raise could become electoral issues.

But is it right for you to say we’re “the people”. Shouldn’t you then offer a political alternative and join politics?

We are not going to contest elections, but will keep trying to change the system.

Do you have ideological inclinations?

Let me speak about the people in the leadership as I cannot speak for all the people who have participated. There cannot be anyone in the leadership who has a communal background. Our core team consists of 25 people and most of them are left of centre. I hope that answers your question.

Some people have seen your movement as an RSS plot.

I’m aware of that. Someone from Aruna Roy’s organisation has written an article that my father is an RSS office-bearer and close to Advaniji. What nonsense is this! You are getting so dirty. Just muck. The VHP and RSS have also been making claims about feeding thousands of people and mobilising their cadre. But please be clear. We have no space for any communal force although some may be trying to take advantage of the movement and that does concern us.

Many OBC and Dalit politicians see your movement as an upper-caste conspiracy to take back power from the lower castes.

I think it is good if the established power centres feel their power is being diminished and going to the people. Mayawati just said that Assange is anti-Dalit because she did not like the Wikileaks report about her getting sandals on a special jet. So, if you do not have answers or if someone is trying to demolish your power centre, you just call it anti-Dalit.

Are you anti-reservation? Was that the reason for your involvement with the anti-quota Youth for Equality?

No, I am not anti-reservation. That is wrong information. I have never participated in the anti-reservation movement. I know some of the students from Youth for Equality, but knowing them does not mean I support them.

“My NGO received Rs 25 lakh each, from Narayana Murthy and the Ratan Tata Trust for RTI campaigns. That’s as far as our direct links with corporates go.”

Many people believe your Jan Lokpal only creates a huge behemoth and that the bill proposed by NCPRI and Aruna Roy is better. Are you open to her suggestions?

We have changed our bill many times on the basis of public feedback. We put it on the website and got 3,000 responses. We have tried our best to engage with Arunaji. We failed. Whenever she called us for a meeting, we have gone. On April 3 and 4, I, Prashant and Shanti Bhushan, and Justice Hegde had meetings with them, after which they issued a press release saying the Jan Lokpal was an excellent bill. On April 5, Anna went on a fast; on April 10, they said the Jan Lokpal is a Frankenstein’s monster.

Aruna Roy also came to the Ramlila ground to ask about Anna’s health. But there has been no further consultation. An attempt was made by Kuldeep Nayar (to bring us together), Prashant and I went. When Arunaji came to know that I’d also be coming to this meeting, she said I shouldn’t be allowed to come. But forget all that. We are not trying to declare some kind of victory over their proposals. We will still incorporate all the good suggestions before our final presentation to the standing committee in the last week of September. There is no theirs vs ours. It can be a mixture also.

So, have a lot of the problems been created by the egos of activists?

I don’t agree. But I want to ask how the NCPRI bill was drafted. Were there any public consultations? How was the government bill drafted. With five ministers? So where’s the democracy in the NCPRI and government bills?

Your first NGO Parivartan is based on the donation model. Then suddenly another NGO, Kabir, starts to take huge grants from Ford Foundation.

Kabir is run by Manish Sisodia. We work very closely together, but these are separate NGOs. Let Manish answer.

(Manish Sisodia: I was working in Zee News earlier. After I left Zee, I took the funds to make films, documentaries and run campaigns on RTI. We took money in 2005 and 2007. It ended in 2009-10. We do not intend to take any more, although funds have been allocated).

‘Our core is comprised of 25 people, most of whom fall left of centre. We’ve no space for any communal force although some are trying to take advantage of our fight.’

Do you think there should be greater clarity on the kind of grants you should take? And does not support from business houses make you hostage to outside interests?

I’m so glad you are asking this. The Public Cause Research Foundation was set up by me in 2006 with the Magsaysay award money. We funded RTI campaigns and what we call the ‘swaraj campaign’ for political decentralistion and to research governance issues. We instituted RTI awards and, for two years, we took funds from Narayana Murthy (of Infosys) and the Ratan Tata Trust, Rs 25 lakh from each. That was as far as any direct links to corporates go. In the past year, there have been only donations and no project-based funding. We’ve no clue where the donations come from.

How much money has been received?

In April, Rs 32 lakh. Do check the details on India Against Corruption’s website.

Do you have positions on people’s movements like POSCO, Jaitapur and other land struggles?

Certainly. We feel no land should be acquired without the sanction of the gram sabha. The government should not just do consultations, but take consent in each case like POSCO. There is a danger when the government says it will take consent from 80 per cent of the landowners as most people depend on the land without owning it. The central decision should be with the gram sabha.

Why was Anna taken to a five-star resort hospital like Medanta?

Madhu Trehan is a good friend. When Anna was unwell some months ago, she’d suggested Dr Trehan. Since then, he has been to that hospital two, three times. When he went to that hospital now, there was a hue and cry. To an extent, I understand. Anna, being from a particular background, going to such a hospital; the two things don’t really gel. I think we won’t do that in the future.

Some of the ideas thrown up by you like the right to recall, legislation through gram panchayats, seem to be out of cuckooland or rather archaic.

I do not think the right to recall is such an archaic idea. It exists at the panchayat and municipality levels in many states. It just needs to be taken higher to the state and central levels. And the gram sabha is a very modern concept. Have you heard of town hall meetings in the US? The townspeople take decisions on how their town should be run.

But in such a large country, who will decide who are “the people”?

We elect someone once in five years. That person not only does not come back to you and ask you what you want, but at the same time, he himself does not have an independent voice in Parliament and he goes by the whip of the high command. So, we hand over power to a few people called the party high command and they run the country. We want to question this form of democracy. It is not even representative in character.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 16 Sep 2011 17:38

Is this true NAC budget is 4500 crores, my tax money is paying Harsh Manders & Co. This crowd is really a bunch of parasites.

Not as a direct budgetary allocation...but indirectly the cost of maintaining the various parasite orgs setup by the NAC does come to that..

For instance is the NREGA besides the cash directly given to the workers , there are agencies for distribution of the cash , preparing list of beneficiaries ,preparing their job cards , oversight of the workers etc...

It has the following focus area's

Natural resource management, including revitalisation of agriculture,
Development of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes
Welfare of minorities
Poverty elimination and employment generation
Land rights and land reforms
Right to education, disadvantaged children
Health security and medical insurance
Social security and safety net for the disadvantaged groups
Urban poverty
Development of the northeast
Special Component plan for Scheduled Castes and the tribal sub-plan for Scheduled Tribes.

So it receives budgetary allocation from each of the concerned ministry...

I had read an article somewhere that the total cost of maintaining the useless activities of this parasite is 1billion plus...

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 16 Sep 2011 17:41

Pranay wrote: Do you have ideological inclinations?

Let me speak about the people in the leadership as I cannot speak for all the people who have participated. There cannot be anyone in the leadership who has a communal background. Our core team consists of 25 people and most of them are left of centre. I hope that answers your question.

This is the first open admission of the leftist inclination of team Anna..... Certainly raises some troubling questions that none in the DDM have raised so far. This movement is useful as long as they stick to governance issues - but should definitely not be supported beyond this limited scope.

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Sep 2011 17:49

here cannot be anyone in the leadership who has a communal background. Our core team consists of 25 people and most of them are left of centre

So, how is this different from current INC?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Sep 2011 18:10

Didn't need a US diplomat to tell you that

The kangress high command fed deeply at the reddy udders and pulled the plug when jagan decided to go his own way.

jagan mohan reddy will soon be an alumnus of tihar jail.

YSR’s ‘sheer size’ of corruption shocked US diplomats

Sep 16, 2011

New York: Deceased Andhra Pradesh chief minister YS Rajasekhara Reddy’s populist schemes kept him comfortably in power from 2004 to his sudden death five years later, but they were also conduits for massive corruption, US consul general David Hopper, then based in Chennai, wrote in a confidential cable newly released by WikiLeaks.

Hopper’s damaging cable comes on the back of a CBI inquiry into the wealth amassed by Reddy’s businessman-politician son, Kadapa MP YS Jaganmohan Reddy, who is the leader of the YSR Congress Party. Last month, the Andhra Pradesh High Court ordered a wider CBI probe into alleged kickbacks Jaganmohan Reddy received from some 30 companies, including Emaar Properties, Ramky Infrastructure and Pennar Aluminum for sweetheart deals he wrangled for them from his father’s government.

The cable says Reddy’s big-ticket social programmes to do with irrigation and building houses for the poor were mired in nepotism, shadiness and profiteering. Screen grab from ibnlive.com

Corporate and political India have long benefited from each other in navigating a business climate rife with deep-rooted patronage systems, but Hopper claims the Reddy-led Congress government indulged in an unthinkable level of corruption which defied even “the norm for India.”

The cable dated 22 October 2007, gives the diplomat’s frank assessment of allegations of widespread corruption among Andhra Pradesh’s ruling elite. He says Reddy’s big-ticket social programmes to do with irrigation and building houses for the poor were mired in nepotism, shadiness and profiteering. The diplomat puts the cost of Reddy’s ambitious Rajiv Swagruha Programme aimed at building 16 lakh low-cost houses in the state at $4 billion to $6 billion. The 26 new irrigation projects he envisaged were expected to cost the state nearly $11 billion.

“There is consensus in Andhra Pradesh that irrigation and housing programmes are beset with corruption. On separate visits to Hyderabad, we heard allegations of widespread graft from several neutral observers,” said Hopper’s cable.

“An economist, who is studying the effectiveness of the state government’s programmes, said with only four to five companies executing the projects through numerous subcontractors and little oversight, there are many opportunities for graft in the irrigation schemes.”

The US cable also pointed out that the chief minister and his party took a bigger cut from promoters wanting to put up multi-crore projects in the state. “Typically, five to seven percent is lost to corruption, but in Reddy’s irrigation programme that figure is more than 15 to 20 percent,” said the cable. “The sheer size of Reddy’s signature programmes, with literally billions of dollars at play every year, leaves much room for ‘leakage’ to Congress party officials and their allies.”

“We thought Naidu was bad, but that was child’s play compared with what is happening now.”

Hopper told his bosses in the US state department that widespread corruption in the Congress government seemed to be an “open secret” in Andhra Pradesh.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 16 Sep 2011 20:31

Anna/Kejriwal/Bedi == Politicians

Anna = Gujarat has progressed under Modi
Media cries foul
Anna withdraws statement and speaks bad about gujarat the next day!

Kejriwal = First goes with baba ramdev, abandons him.
Somebody (Horse Manure) speaks about Bharat Mata picture behind anna is un-secular
Kejriwalji and his team replace Bharat Mata with Father of Nation Gandhi-ji's picture
IAC replaces vande mataram with Jai Hind

Bedi speaks about people from all walks of life coming together.
Bukhari objects to vande mataram
Bedi goes to Bukhari-ji to convince him.

Everytime someone points out, these guys go running around dousing fire and begs for acceptability (they still do not know that they have been accepted by the whole india!!!)

Lastly somebody talked about Dalit and Muslim participation and they brought and announced that these muslim and dalit girls will end anna's fast.

Still to get a stable character and spine