The Jan Lokpal Bill, Anna Hazare, and Baba Ramdev II

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Sep 2011 21:10

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/0 ... o-clothes/

Air India, known locally as ‘The Maharaja’, is today a pauper prince. It has huge debts, and faces an uncertain future. Far from capitalising on a boom in domestic transport over the past 10 years, the national carrier has haemorrhaged state funds and sullied its brand.

The civil aviation ministry has a lot to answer for. According to the CAG’s findings, delayed and then over-hasty acquisition of aircraft from Boeing and Airbus put massive financial stress on Air India. Similarly, foreign airlines, particularly those in the Gulf, were handed lucrative bilateral routes to the cost of the national carrier.

The oil ministry comes out little better in its dealing with the flagship company of India’s richest man, Mukesh Ambani. The staggering figure in the CAG report on gas production off India’s east coast is that a capital expenditure by Reliance Industries, but largely paid for by the government, cost $8.8bn after initially being estimated at $2.4bn.

That’s quite some difference, even in a tough environment to extract gas!

The national auditor describes a lenient relationship between the state and Reliance, now partnered with the UK’s BP, which allowed the company to keep exploration acreage that it should have surrendered.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 13 Sep 2011 01:54

From TOIlet
The Hindu Lokpal audio logs 'lost in transit'

Times of India - ‎43 minutes ago‎

NEW DELHI: A week after the department of personnel and training (DopT) had said it has sought the law ministry's opinion on making audio tapes of the Lokpal joint drafting committee deliberations public under the RTI Act, the ministry is yet to ...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Sep 2011 13:28

Anna rejects Cong, BJP; willing to support 'clean party'

Here we go.............

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Sep 2011 13:37

Pratyush wrote:Anna rejects Cong, BJP; willing to support 'clean party'

Here we go.............

I have seen this news only on HT and ibn cnn.

It needs to be looked at to see whether what he said really. It would be interesting.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Sep 2011 15:36

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 51060.html

AH- Advani's yatra only for votes.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Sep 2011 15:44

IndraD wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 51060.html

AH- Advani's yatra only for votes.

What else is a Politican's yatra meant to be, RG visit to so called "Dalit" homes, Kalawati speech, Digvijay rants. Isnt a Politican job to canvass for votes?

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 13 Sep 2011 15:59

IndraD wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/anna ... 51060.html

AH- Advani's yatra only for votes.

"I don't think it (Rath Yatra) is for the good of the country and its people. It is aimed at votes. If it is not so, bring about Lokpal law. Then I will support him," Hazare said on being asked about supporting Advani's Rath Yatra.

Is AH saying he will support Advani's Rath Yatra if Advani talks about Lokpal bill?

But, why does he say campaign for votes (Rath Yatra) is not good for the country?

achy · Post by **achy** » 13 Sep 2011 17:18

If Anna and team keep giving this kind of statements ( Assuming these stamements are not creative imagination of DDM) then they will loose support faster then they got it. They should stick to the Corruption plank on apolitical agenda and see through its denouement before taking up universal governance issues like Electoral, Judiciary and Police reforms. If they want to take up political agenda then people will very soon see through it. Already claims of team Anna being left of center and their stand on Land Rehab bill is raising alarm bells.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Sep 2011 17:41

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110913.htm

Non corrupt from BJP and congress should join hands and form a new party

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Sep 2011 17:46

IndraD wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110913.htm

Non corrupt from BJP and congress should join hands and form a new party

What?!!

A political party of only two or three people, if at all?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 13 Sep 2011 17:57

IndraD wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 110913.htm

Non corrupt from BJP and congress should join hands and form a new party

yeah rite! you be the president of the party, i will be the general secretary. we will try to find more people:roll:
I guess finding a alien spacecraft has more odds!

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Sep 2011 19:06

achy wrote:If Anna and team keep giving this kind of statements ( Assuming these stamements are not creative imagination of DDM) then they will loose support faster then they got it. They should stick to the Corruption plank on apolitical agenda and see through its denouement before taking up universal governance issues like Electoral, Judiciary and Police reforms. If they want to take up political agenda then people will very soon see through it. Already claims of team Anna being left of center and their stand on Land Rehab bill is raising alarm bells.

Watch the interview, it is fairly innocuous: http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/183672/rea ... -anna.html

achy · Post by **achy** » 13 Sep 2011 19:23

Thanks Pranav. So, it was another case of DDMitis. But, I think Anna and team should be careful in giving interviews as it will be continually distorted by motivated Media. They should use the media rather then be used as they have done till now.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Sep 2011 19:30

Listen to Anna's interview on Timesnow. He refused to criticize Narendra Modi for not appointing Lokpal. When asked by Arnab, he said "Desh ka sara kam main he karoonga to baki log kya karenge".

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 13 Sep 2011 20:05

http://live.indiatimes.com/default.cms?timesnow=1

Arnab Goswami - Anna Hazare Interview (Live)

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 13 Sep 2011 20:17

Some people are trying to project the anti-corruption movement and Anna as complete media creations without any real popular support. Of course nobody wants to overturn the constitutional and admin framework, but I think issues are getting confused.

Indian media face accountability surgery

Satellite news channels relentlessly exhibited an agitation largely confined to one single open-air ground in the capital, as representing the "national" mood, failing to fairly convey the national disapproval of Hazare's emotional blackmail and unethical method of protest.

While the 74-year old Hazare lived on water for 12 days, after ordering the Indian parliament to blindly accept only his version of an anti-corruption law, his singing, dancing and sometimes drunken followers feasted on free meals, in what was not even a New Delhi circus, just the Ramlila ground circus. A 250,000 square meter waterproof marquee in the capital's Ramlila Maidan park played host to Hazare's fast.

Pro-Hazare agitations on a similar scale were missing elsewhere in the country, particularly in a socially aware city like Kolkata that needs little excuse to take to the streets in protest.

" 'The People' are the tens of thousands who have been miraculously multiplied into millions by our TV channels, like Christ multiplied the fishes and loaves to feed the hungry," writer Arundhati Roy said in an article [1]. " 'A billion voices have spoken,' we're told. 'India is Anna', ". Like her other journalistic works, her latest effort promptly evoked from big and fragile egos a similar effect as waving a red rag to a bull.

[...]

A "media multiplier effect," as one former Hazare advisor Swami Agnivesh termed it, after he quit the Hazare group, calling them "mad people".

Neighboring Pakistan watching the Hazare agitation with interest and was aware of the dark side. Lahore-based constitutional lawyer Yasser Latif Hamdani warned Hazare was a "concocted saint riding the tiger of self-righteous middle class opinion" to overturn the Indian constitution.

[...]

Fired with "hyper-ventilating TV news channels", as CNN-IBN chief editor Rajdeep Sardesai described it, Hazare and Co dangerously stoked an anti-politician mood that can threaten political freedom. History is full of "revolutionary" fascist leaders quickly striking the devil's deal with an impatient population.

"See how quickly I get things done," they declare to cheering multitudes. And in exchange, instead of the devil taking away Faust's soul, they take away a people's freedom.

In the Hazare case there were no cheering millions taking to the streets across the country - just a mirage created by media ethics-challenged coverage, and television doing justice to its nickname as the "Idiot Box".

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 13 Sep 2011 20:53

Kejriwal needs a task master o/w he is unguided missile.

Only kiran bedi looks head over shoulder type.

Kejriwal and annaji both are gradually donning arrogance and looks to be deviating...

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Sep 2011 21:12

Lahore-based constitutional lawyer Yasser Latif Hamdani warned Hazare was a "concocted saint riding the tiger of self-righteous middle class opinion" to overturn the Indian constitution.

Why is a Baki being even asked for some Desh related stuff?

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 13 Sep 2011 22:39

sum wrote:
Lahore-based constitutional lawyer Yasser Latif Hamdani warned Hazare was a "concocted saint riding the tiger of self-righteous middle class opinion" to overturn the Indian constitution.
Why is a Baki being even asked for some Desh related stuff?

Well he looks like he's part of the Arundhoti fan club so it makes sense. Birds of a feather and all that..

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 13 Sep 2011 22:48

^^ Raja Murthy's farticle is totally slanted and his sources and benchmarks reveal his orientation.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 13 Sep 2011 22:56

niran wrote:^^ his job is done, mohtarma P has offsprings all she need is is a scene where she holds
two lil keeds a white saari on with dark glasses covering her eyes and watching a pyre,
that will ensure a thumping victory for con-men.

Am sure the man has forseen the possibility. He is no fool. You bet he has enough on a number of people.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 14 Sep 2011 01:30

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 970848.cms

Calling a spade a spade...

Anna Hazare today called L K Advani's proposed yatra against corruption as a "gimmick" and said he would not support the BJP unless it backs the Jan Lokpal Bill in Parliament and its governments enact a legislation for appointing Lokayuktas in states.

"If Advani is serious on the issue of corruption, then instead of yatra, he should ask all BJP-ruled states to enact legislation for appointing Lokayuktas... it is a gimmick," he told television channels here.

"Absolutely not. If BJP says that they support Anna then they should bring Lokayukta Bill in their states. First bring Lokayukta and then (ask for) support," he said in a response to a question whether he would join any political yatra, especially the one to be undertaken by Advani soon.

Hazare said he and his team would support BJP only if states ruled by the party Lokayuktas and back "Jan Lokpal in total" in Parliament.

Criticising Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Home Minister P Chidambaram and HRD minister Kapil Sibal, Hazare, who was part of the joint drafting committee along with the three, said they "behaved like prime ministers".

To a specific question about the three ministers, he said, "Everyone knows that they behave like prime ministers. Why do you want me to spell it out?"

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 14 Sep 2011 05:02

Totally old news as the events have passed by- Take it FWIW
wrt to the treatment of BR and AH-
brf oldies and some others know this- I am just regurgitating whatever the chaaiwala/paanwala said-

BR was a potential enemy of cong dienasty-
due to the following -- galvanising population. He was already popular among masses. he toured all over and fired the zeal of people particularly the rural folks and new lower middle classes.
He made inroads into the traditional bases of congis and casteists parties(esp in North India). He also raised hopes of starting new political party etc.
Many cong MPs were also overawed by his charisma.
This set off alarm bells in congis inner coterie as any gains made by BR will be detriment to inner circles hold on power. It seriously eroded the MPs confidence in them. BR targetted the swiss black money named inner circle also.
With growing popularity some of the congis MPs and MlAs etc (also include some casteist parties ones) might jump ship at the opportune time for their electoral success.
This was a big no-no.

1) Hence the police/media witch hunt and tax related probes to reduce his growing stature.
2) Raised media profile of AH.

AH should have been stage managed by congi apologists, however it grew beyond the control of the inner circle for some time. One of the reasons is common Indians who were with BR simply went along with AH team bolstering their confidence. Some in the team refused the bait of congis.
Somehow AH team lost their way with their excess/maximalist demands, growing weariness etc. no end in sight. They were hemmed in with their sights on lokpal only which requires parliament to debate and pass the bills. Thus handing the govt a safe ticket. No mention of swiss money naming individuals etc to pressure the govt. This enormously helps cong govt as no names stick to the inner circle.
Govt was in drivers seat most of the time barring a few anxious days.

Now people only say something about lokpal or some bill to reduce corruption etc. No mention of kingpins, name droppings etc to stick on the govt.
Surely a masterstroke for inner circle currently (considering that with bofors when RG's name was associated with corruption).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2011 05:08

AH still may launch a political party to reduce the opposition vote share.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Sep 2011 09:44

^^^

It is only a matter of time. The net looser will be the BJP and the castist parties. As the INC vote share will be kept intact by the NERAGA and similar schemes.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Sep 2011 09:57

Pratyush wrote:^^^

It is only a matter of time. The net looser will be the BJP and the castist parties. As the INC vote share will be kept intact by the NERAGA and similar schemes.

I think this would be a miscalculation. A lot of Congress supporters in Metro's and other places are awed by AH.

Let us remind ourselves, Congress won last time primarily because of Middle class votes (essentially Manmohan constituency) -- it really has not done all that well in other areas.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 14 Sep 2011 10:09

Pratyush wrote:^^^

It is only a matter of time. The net looser will be the BJP and the castist parties. As the INC vote share will be kept intact by the NERAGA and similar schemes.

Quite correct. The Kangress is hurt much less than the other parties.
Corruption will be used as a lever to discredit all other parties. Already we see Lokayukta in Gujarat harassing the govt. In Karnataka the CM was forced to resign in mining scams. Jagan is being screwed by CBI because he broke away from Congress. Mayawati, Raja, Kanimozhi , Pawar, the list goes on and on, Congress can tighten screws on them at any time.

Note that no Congie has been really affected by all this. Shiela Dikshit was not asked to resign for CWG scams. They have successfully offloaded the mining scam from YSR mafia to Reddys, Yeddyrupa, Jagan. ( K'tka BJP govt is much less involved in mining scam than Congress AP govt. But all you'll hear from media is BJP corrupt blahblah ).

The Kangress also enjoys total un-accountability as there is officially no one in charge. With an absent PM and even more absent 2Gs, ministers are behaving like PM, Doggy Singh mouths nonsense, NAC junta frame ridiculous laws. So many offices like President, EC, CBI, etc. are all compromised. And there is no one to be held responsible.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Sep 2011 10:49

Gujarat best example of effective governance: US Cong report

Identifying Gujarat as perhaps the best example of effective governance and impressive development in India, a Congressional report showered praise on the Chief Minister Narendra Modi and said that the state under him has become a key driver of national economic growth.

Gujarat, is followed by Bihar and its Chief Minister Nitish Kumar, for his governance and administrative skills, the latest report of the Congressional Research Service on India said.
"Perhaps India's best example of effective governance and impressive development is found in Gujarat, where controversial chief minister Narendra Modi has streamlined economic processes, removing red tape and curtailing corruption in ways that have made the state a key driver of national economic growth," said the CRS report.

When US visa was denied, sickular junta and INC were dancing in the streets about how US vindicated their stand.

Wonder if the same US will now be called communal and RSS backed?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Sep 2011 11:20

The lies and chicnery by the Indian political elite has no gone down well with ordinary people.Do not underestimate the voter,When the time comes,the parties who appear to be more honest that the Congress/UPA will benefit.The games being played to protect Swiss bank holders,etc.,will only postpone the debacle that is awaiting the Congress.If the BJP ant to ride the anti-Congress wave,then they too must introspect and speak with fewer voices.The issue of leadership is a major issue which must be sorted out before the next election.If AH is still active by the time of the next hustings,he will still weild considerable influence and could give direction to a motley coalition of parties just like the Janata in '77.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Sep 2011 12:03

Sanku wrote:I think this would be a miscalculation. A lot of Congress supporters in Metro's and other places are awed by AH.

Let us remind ourselves, Congress won last time primarily because of Middle class votes (essentially Manmohan constituency) -- it really has not done all that well in other areas.

While I agree with you that INC won the last election due to the Middle class votes. Going forward I am not really optimistic that the INC will be removed from power. This is primary because of the various entitlement schemes that have been implemented by the NAC. They have created a huge new vote bank in favour of the INC and the present GOI. The most that will happen is that one mask will be replaced by another and it will be business as usual.

The loss of the middle class votes will be made good by the consolidation of votes from the entitlement constituency.

Making parties such as the BSP,SP the loosers. The BJP may gain the middle class votes in some areas. But it will be insufficient to offset the lost votes from the entitlement constituency. Besides if the BJP doesn't win. To it it will be the same as a loss for it.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Sep 2011 12:10

Pratyush wrote:
Sanku wrote:I think this would be a miscalculation. A lot of Congress supporters in Metro's and other places are awed by AH.

Let us remind ourselves, Congress won last time primarily because of Middle class votes (essentially Manmohan constituency) -- it really has not done all that well in other areas.

While I agree with you that INC won the last election due to the Middle class votes. Going forward I am not really optimistic that the INC will be removed from power. This is primary because of the various entitlement schemes that have been implemented by the NAC. They have created a huge new vote bank in favour of the INC and the present GOI. The most that will happen is that one mask will be replaced by another and it will be business as usual.

The loss of the middle class votes will be made good by the consolidation of votes from the entitlement constituency.

Making parties such as the BSP,SP the loosers. The BJP may gain the middle class votes in some areas. But it will be insufficient to offset the lost votes from the entitlement constituency. Besides if the BJP doesn't win. To it it will be the same as a loss for it.

I do not agree or disagree, situation is fluid, a lot will depend on how things pan out. I was merely pointing out that AH is primarily going to impact people who voted Congress in last elections.

Although no doubt some of his " core crowd" during the movement was more of the BJP type, but they were some what mobilized by the Sangh and some what took part out of Anti-congress opportunity. They were not there for AH really.

But the larger part of crowd that went there for AH, almost certainly was congress votes or "no votes"

So yes, I do not see how AH will manage to cut BJP votes. I dont think it will.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 14 Sep 2011 12:25

Black money trail: 2nd list of Indian Swiss accounts to be shared
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 977871.cms

I do not know whether Indian govt will be bothered with this list!?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Sep 2011 12:38

Guys,the last TN election proved that freebies do not work all the time.When corruption reaches unimaginable levels-and in the TN election some even questioned whether the voter would understand the massive figures and issues mentioned in the media...they did,with a vengeance! The DK was atomised by the JJ anti-C wave.So I am not sure how safe the Congress' rrual votebank is after all these scams.Given the looting instinct of Congressmen and corruption being the holy grail of the party,further scandals are bound to emerge before the next election.As I said before,some more sacrifical goats have to be exterminated from the power core before the voter feels reassured enough.The manner in which the MMS/UPA regime are stalling the AH anti-C movement,going back on their promises ,is a recipe for disaster.barring rigging the polls,I can't see how in present circumstances the Congress/UPA will retain power.

But a "week is a long time in poltiics" and we may see many more twists and turns.However,if the Opposition unite,they can certainly make some heads roll and should press for leadership change.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Sep 2011 12:54

The example of TN is not really relevant in the context of all India politics. The TN electorate has a tendency of extreme swings. From DMK to AIADMK and vice versa.

The same is not the case with all India voters. Then have voted INC or INC led govt in for 50 of the 60 years of the republic. This will remain unless the BJP strengthens.

A political party floated by IAC will not allow that to happen. Also there are enough idiots in the country who are seduced by the idea of a "true secularism", who will support the Anna floated party over and against the communal BJP.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Sep 2011 12:56

From Gandhigiri to Annagiri

A nice and heart warming initiative from Agra police & Municipal council. I hope that this can be sustained and the the rest of the country follows this lead.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Sep 2011 13:38

Pratyush wrote: A political party floated by IAC will not allow that to happen. Also there are enough idiots in the country who are seduced by the idea of a "true secularism", who will support the Anna floated party over and against the communal BJP.

For the eventual success of Indian thought, may be using BJP as a vehicle, or some other, will certainly see attempts to derail it by trying to divert the Indianness into distributed special interest efforts (some of the efforts may certainly be valid)

However it cuts both ways, some times the same tools work in wildly different ways. Note YSR/Jagan approach and so on.

This see-saw will continue as long as there are significantly strong forces outside our borders meddling in -- our effort needs to be take every challenge as opportunity and ride out the wave.

We need to be in this mode for 100-200 years before we can breath easy -- for a short while before the game restarts.

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 14 Sep 2011 14:39

Yest with Timesnow Annaji denied floating any party.

But he made impractical suggestions that the good, charitryavan, honest people in both the parties should leave their parties and start a new front. He will not lead or guide the front - he said categorically.

Somehow i felt a big disconnect with what he was saying.

Also he mentioned that Baba Ramdev and IAC will support each other but will not share stage in campaign (because i have already taken the advantage when Baba Ramdev introduced me to his followers on a stage and now i have garnered support of many baba could not imagine). AH went Kejriwal way with Baba.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 14 Sep 2011 15:04

"Gali-gali me shor hai, XYZ chor hai" type slogans are going around with a vengeance. I would be extremely surprised if Congress doesn't get voted out. Problem is that the other opposition party is also getting tarred with the same brush. Besides they have a leadership issue at the top. So most likely scenario is that it will be a fractured parliament with Deve gowda types ruling dilli. We will have a re-run of the post PVNR scenario.

IMVVVHO.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 14 Sep 2011 15:53

Corruption will be a huge factor in next elections. But right now it has overtaken almost everything else. The whole GOI machinery is chocked and clogged. You find major industrialists complaining that babus have altogether stopped pushing files. Already it has started hitting the whole growth story. I just pray foe some leadership now.

Waiting for elections is not an options. MMS has to start asserting himself.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 14 Sep 2011 17:14

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... /210663?hp

Anna Hazare eloquently answers Barkha Dutt...