Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

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abhishek_sharma
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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Sep 2011 07:03

HC blast probe looks at new angle: Cellphone may have been trigger

As the National Investigation Agency (NIA) expands its probe into the Delhi High Court blast across the country, the first indication has emerged that a cellphone might have been used to trigger the explosion. A fragment of a mobile phone with traces of an explosive on it has been recovered, sources said.

The sources also said that investigators now think that the explosive used in the attack was either RDX or PETN, not ammonium nitrate.

Should the examination of the mobile phone fragment provide conclusive evidence that it was used to trigger the blast, an altogether new, and serious, dimension will be added to the probe. Cellphone-triggered blasts have had a Lashkar-e-Toiba signature in the recent past.

The use of a cellphone trigger to detonate an Improvised Explosive Device was seen for the first time in Baramulla in north Kashmir some years ago, where the police recovered a part of a cellphone device along with the SIM at the site of a roadside blast aimed at an Army convoy.

The email trail has, meanwhile, hit a dead end in Kishtwar, Jammu. Sources said that the youth suspected to have sent the HuJI mail has been denying involvement. The arrested owner of the cybercafé too is not sure who was browsing the Net at the time the email was sent.

Investigators suspect the barrage of emails — four so far — claiming responsibility or threatening fresh attacks are not credible. There is a likelihood that the Kishtwar mail was a tactic to divert attention so that the attackers get time to escape.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Sep 2011 07:11

No lessons learnt

Rarely do terrorists attack with prior warning. However, the Delhi High Court strike is a stand-out example of an attack repeated within four months of the first failed attempt. This is an ignominy Delhi Police will have to live down because details show that almost every measure that was considered after the first attempt on May 25, remained on paper—so much so that even the demand for armed paramilitary guards outside the High Court reached the Home Ministry only a couple of weeks ago and North Block is “still processing” the file.

It was a gamble on the government’s instinct for inaction that seems to have paid off for the terrorists. That dovetails with what Home Minister P Chidambaram pointed out on Friday, when he said that there was a reluctance to take decisions on purchases, which is what stalled the procurement of CCTVs for the court complex. Result: the difficulty levels could never be raised for the plotters, who simply walked back and were bold enough to target the reception area instead of the car park and once again on a Wednesday, just like May 25.

With no security aid in place, all that investigators are now left with is the metal frame of a briefcase that purportedly carried the “nitrate-based explosive”. By Thursday, even that theory faced some challenge because some eyewitness accounts claimed that they had seen someone place a bag. But after a detailed debate, investigators are sticking to the briefcase theory. Beyond that, the case did not receive any further enrichment from the spot.

In all, the policing effort after the May 25 incident did not help prevent or deter the attack. Even rudimentary equipment, which could have helped investigators now, was not installed. And that is a new low because an effective model lay just a few lanes across in the Supreme Court.

A couple of years ago, there were specific threats to Supreme Court judges which prompted a complete review. The Intelligence Bureau, along with Delhi Police and the Supreme Court, drew up a security plan which was put in place in weeks and strengthened over months. There is a dedicated DCP (Deputy Commissioner of Police) with a posse of 150 police personnel for SC security, which is now a three-tiered affair with radio frequency tagging for cars like in Parliament. Recently, a jammer to deactivate high-frequency gadgets was also installed there.

The thinking seemed to be similar in the case of Delhi High Court after May 25—a three-tier security, full CCTV coverage, setting up armed guards and installation of state-of the-art door frame metal detectors with private security guards. These remained proposals till terrorists revisited the court complex on Wednesday. This was also a daring attack because the High Court is located next to a Territorial Army battalion set-up.

A committee headed by the Chief Justice of the Delhi High Court and which has judges, representatives of the lawyers and the government, held about a dozen meetings to finalise a fool-proof security plan for the High Court but despite repeated missives, written as well as verbal, the committee couldn’t get the Delhi government’s PWD to act any faster.

“Tenders were floated thrice by the PWD (for CCTVs) but due to some problem with the technical bids, each time the bids were cancelled. This shows how serious the PWD was about the security of such a vital institution,” says advocate D K Sharma, secretary, Delhi HC Bar Association.

At a meeting held to review the security arrangements that had to be put in place in the court after the May 25 blast bid, Delhi Police Commissioner B K Gupta had assured that a repeat would not happen. Hundred days later, he is eating his words since nothing that he promised was delivered. There was still no sign of the cops in plainclothes as had been promised. Though X-Ray machines has been installed at all nine gates, security continued to be lax at all points.

Senior Delhi Police functionaries also attribute the blast to the decline in the performance of its Special Cell. There has been no progress in investigations into the May 25 incident and that has been the record for Delhi Police ever since the serial blasts of September 2008 in the city. “Minor” attacks—like the one in Mehrauli or in Jama Masjid—have not been probed with urgency. May 25 too fell in that category but as it now turns out, the bombmaker and the plotters had evolved by September 7. Now, the May 25 case has also been handed over to the National Investigation Agency.

Besides, there were quite a few alerts coming Delhi’s way—some general but others like the one in July were specific about the High Court. The alert then was about Sikh outfits seeking revenge for Devinder Pal Singh Bhullar, the Khalistan militant whose mercy plea against the death sentence awarded to him by the Supreme Court was turned down, but it was an alarm bell loud enough to step up vigil and find a way out with tenders.

Now, with 13 people dead and 88 injured in Wednesday’s bomb attack, things are finally moving. The Sports Authority of India (SAI), which was involved in last year’s Commonwealth Games, has offered to provide 243 CCTV cameras. Also, the Rajasthan Armed Police personnel, who were looking after the security at the entry points of the High Court, are being replaced by the CRPF personnel.

Having failed to prevent this attack, sources say the pressure is now on the investigators to deliver. As a top-ranking official said: “It has become vital to catch hold of those behind this attack if we want to push the terrorists back, otherwise the next one is just round the corner.”

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Pratyush » 11 Sep 2011 07:15

I have followed this thread since its inception. This post that I am making is because I am having a sense of deja vu. The acts of terror remind me of 2008. We all know how that ended. I hope that this year will be different.

But that is just my hope.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Sep 2011 07:19

Security stuck in files

It was the afternoon of July 13 and Home Minister P Chidambaram took up with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh a subject he admits he has discussed several times before—the Home Ministry’s long-pending proposal of setting up the NCTC (National Counter Terrorism Centre) on the lines of the agency set up by the United States after the 9/11 attack.
Within three hours of the discussion on the inordinate delay on the NCTC project, a series of bomb blasts struck Mumbai, killing 26 people. As the Home Minister told The Sunday Express, “Yes, the Home Ministry’s NCTC discussion paper has been with the government for almost a year and a half. I have reminded the Prime Minister about it both in writing and in person.”

In any assessment of the post-26/11 security scenario, the failure of the UPA government to at least initiate the process of setting up the NCTC must top the list of pending security and counter-terrorism related initiatives. Clearly by doing no follow-up after the Home Ministry submitted its NCTC discussion paper to members of the Cabinet Committee of Security (CCS) in April 2010, the government lost the post-26/11 momentum which had resulted in setting up of the Multi-Agency Centre (MAC)—an intelligence-sharing mechanism—as well as the NIA (National Investigation Agency) as a federal agency to probe all terror-related cases.

Both these crucial initiatives were taken in December 2008—within days of the 26/11 attacks. While the MAC was operationalised through an executive order, the NIA was cleared in an unscheduled Cabinet meeting. What, unfortunately, were left by the wayside were the two mega proposals of the Home Ministry, the NCTC and NATGRID, an ambitious network of 21 databases for seamless gathering of intelligence and information to be accessed by all 11 security and intelligence agencies.

It was on December 23, 2009 that Chidambaram outlined what he described as the “new security architecture” during the Centenary Endowment lecture of the Intelligence Bureau. The Home Minister had set a deadline of 18-24 months for the NATGRID to become operational but the project got its “in principle” clearance only in June 2011 and its proposal for the Executive Finance Committee has just been finalised. The NATGRID has been allotted a 10-acre plot for construction of its headquarters in the Andheria More area of Delhi but with discussions with the Planning Commission on its financial outlays and powers still to begin in earnest, it may be long before the network is fully functional.

But this “progress” on the NATGRID project was before a phase of uncertainty which lasted almost two years since several departments and ministries opposed the proposal on privacy grounds and a hasty CCS approval came just two days before the term of the NATGRID CEO, Raghu Raman, was to come to an end.

The birthpangs for the NCTC have been even more tortuous and perhaps, some of the delays were a result of the shackles that the Home Minister himself raised during the IB lecture, where he made a “fervent plea” that his proposals for restructuring the security architecture would not result in a turf war. He said, “Some agencies would naturally have to be brought under the NCTC and what comes to my mind readily are NIA, NTRO (National Technical Research Organisation), JIC (Joint Intelligence Committee), NCRB (National Crime Records Bureau) and the NSG (National Security Guards). The positioning of R&AW (Research and Analysis Wing), ARC (Aviation Research Centre) and the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation) would have to be re-examined and a way would have to be found to place them under the oversight of the NCTC...” He also pointed out that while the US was able to set up the NCTC in three years, “India must decide now to go forward and must succeed in setting up the NCTC by the end of 2010...”

The grand security rejig outlined by the Home Ministry envisaged the subsuming of both the newly-set up MAC and the NATGRID into the NCTC. While on paper, the proposed reshuffle of the alphabet soup of agencies may appear innocuous, it isn’t that easy. The proposal clearly underlines a concentration of powers from the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and the National Security Advisor (NSA) towards the Home Ministry and as similar, though not so ambitious, initiatives taken after the Kargil war have shown, a turf war inevitably erupts when new security and intelligence edifices are created.

Take the case of the NTRO, which was set up in 2004 and was supposed to inherit the satellite imagery division of the Aviation Research Centre as well as some of their aircraft. While the transfer of the unit has just taken place, the aircraft were never transferred. The NTRO now finds itself in the middle of a raging controversy on the alleged misuse of their passive interception powers and is the subject of an unprecedented special audit conducted by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG).

The September 7 terror attack on the Delhi High Court has again turned the spotlight on the unfinished agenda of setting up of the NCTC. The Prime Minister himself mentioned the significance of setting up NATGRID and NCTC, which is being seen as a political nod for the latter.

Indeed, officials in the PMO told The Sunday Express that the CCS has recently discussed the NCTC discussion paper on more than one occasion and a decision has been taken for an entire CCS meeting to be devoted to the Home Ministry’s proposal.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Jarita » 11 Sep 2011 07:28

JwalaMukhi wrote:What good is a degree from Oxford if one does not have common sense ?

An oxford education would go a long way to achieve ones goal, if playing shakuni's role is the intent. Maybe PM genuinely feels minorities are being targeted after seeing 1984 riots and feels the best vengeance is to play the role of shakuni to destroy the majority. Cannot attribute anything to his intentions, but must closely watch what he says and what he does.

Not said in jest:
1) Minorities have first right to resources
2) Poll defence forces based on religion
3) minorities are feeling targetted
4) Courts are not impartial to miorities
5) Communalism bill

The list goes on and on. There is good convergence of interest at various levels to shaft the majority. So he the man friday to do precisely that.
[/quote]



I heard from Chai Wallah/Paan Wallah (and very close ones at that) that MMS has a slight allergy to the word Hindu and that it has been around for sometime now. It emerges from his liberal/leftist leanings (paradoxical since he opened the markets) and his bosses orientation.
The more interesting point is that Mataji has a full blown allergy to anything indic sort of like getting hives at anything that alludes to it. More interesting is the general belief that to get closer to the inner circle the congressis have to tone down anything related to Hindu symbols etc (except for the PR value stuff). It is a well known belief that if you are perceived as a regular puja path or even advaita type hindu, there will be a subtle bias towards you which will be reflected in your proximity to the inner circle. This includes loud gung ho celebration of indic festivals and any shade of hindutva i.e., wishing people, taking time off with family etc. The general belief is that Karan Singh was sidelined because of his strong beliefs.
This bias does not extend to non-indics.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby habal » 11 Sep 2011 07:29

>>What, unfortunately, were left by the wayside were the two mega proposals of the Home Ministry, the NCTC and NATGRID, an ambitious network of 21 databases for seamless gathering of intelligence and information to be accessed by all 11 security and intelligence agencies.

this is just to facilitate americanisation of Indian security system. They themselves are saying what is lacking is humint and political will, without this what explosive info will so-called information grids get to transfer.

Infogrid and and this alphabet soup institutions are just an excuse to import american equipment and enable their electronic eavesdropping on Indian humint, whatever meagre it is that we have.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby chetak » 11 Sep 2011 07:57

ramana wrote:PETN is not your garden variety explosive. Its a booster or precursor. Instead of speculating why not ask DRDO how would they setoff NH4-NO3 fuel oil mixture.

Also the reporting or leaking is unprofessional. Ammonium Nirate is an oxidiser to the fuel oil. Is the case being made that there is no fuel oil in these IEDs?

Further unnamed sources are not helping their credibility in pointing lapses at others while they have neglected their jobs. Best option is shut up and produce results.

Altair there is lack of leadership in the ranks. That IPS guy can give all sorts of brave statements as n one can remove him unlike ordinary policement



Bomb makeup shows J&K outfit hand, too

September 11, 2011 Delhi

Three days after the high-intensity bomb explosion outside the Delhi high court, the investigating agencies are still groping in the dark. While the agencies claim to have “positive leads but no breakthrough”, the National Investigation Agency top brass and the Delhi police on Saturday held a detailed review meeting of the investigation so far.

Sources said the view at the meeting was that the Indian Mujahideen is likely to have been assisted by a terror outfit operating out of the Kashmir Valley in the execution of not only Wednesday’s bombing at the Delhi high court but also of the July serial bombings in Mumbai.
Sources said all aspects related to the Delhi and Mumbai explosions were discussed at length during the meeting. “All issues, including similarities and dissimilarities between the Delhi and Mumbai blasts, were discussed. And some very interesting facts cropped up,” a senior investigating official said.
In the Mumbai serial bombings ammonium nitrate with traces of PETN mixed with fuel oil and a detonator were used in the three blasts which, sources said, was a “trademark” IM explosive. However, in the Delhi blast the bomb was made up primarily of PETN with traces of ammonium nitrate. Interestingly, PETN is used heavily by militant outfits operating in the Kashmir Valley. “This clearly proves that IM is not alone in these operations. They are being assisted and backed by a Kashmir terror outfit which, in all probability, could be the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, though HuJI is also under the scanner,” a source said. Sources confirmed that a switch had been found at the blast site.

ramana
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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby ramana » 11 Sep 2011 10:05

OK, Why dont we try to ind out where and who makes PETN in India?

I bet its all controlled very very well.

Salem, TN:

http://vetrivelexplosives.tradeindia.co ... /PETN.html

Hyderabad:

Gulf Oil Corporation Ltd (Andhra Pradesh, Hyderabad)
Gulf Oil Corporation Ltd
Sanathnagar Industrial Estate
Kukatpally, P.B. No.1
500018 Hyderabad
India

We can compile this list.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Thomas Kolarek » 11 Sep 2011 10:09

Cant the security agency - just jam the detonator signal ? Similar to what US used in Iraq to avoid the IED annoyance Least we could buy and place cell phone jammers in key installations/buildings
abhishek_sharma wrote:Blast probe: bomb ‘switch’ located

Even as investigators try to piece together the clues to ascertain which terror group is responsible for Wednesday’s blast at the Delhi high court which claimed 13 lives, they suspect the hand of a new module of Indian Mujahideen (IM) to be behind the blast.

Investigators are also suspecting some of the 11 fugitive IM operatives, who were allegedly involved in the 2008 Delhi serial blasts, to have played a part in the attack.

Sources say, so far investigations have revealed the involvement of the same terror outfit that was responsible for the July 13 Mumbai blasts and the May 25 blast outside the Delhi high court.

Investigators have already confirmed that they found traces of PETN in the bomb that exploded outside gate number 5 of the Delhi high court.

Investigators said PETN is being used mostly by terrorists in Jammu and Kashmir and the IM had earlier used it to make bombs.

Investigators are also of the opinion that the perpetrators of Wednesday’s blast were aided by their local conduits in carrying out the attack.

Suspecting that the prime perpetrators could have stayed in any of the hotels in the Capital before planting the bomb, the Delhi Police has asked 700 hotels located in central Delhi’s Paharganj area for footage from the CCTVs installed in their establishments as well as details about their guests over the past month.

Meanwhile, Delhi Police commissioner BK Gupta on Saturday said that investigators have found a switch-like object used in the bomb. “We are now trying to find out if a timer device was used to trigger the bomb or the perpetrators had used a remote to activate it,” said Gupta. Sources said that investigators are of the opinion that the bomb was activated with the help of a timer device. Efforts are on to trace the timer.

Gupta said they are also writing to the CISF director general and chairman of Railway Board to ensure that CCTVs are installed outside Metro stations and Railway stations. On Friday, Gupta had said they are requesting the mall authorities to ensure that CCTVs are installed in the facilities and that entry of the visitors is regulated properly.

Meanwhile, Delhi Police are also conducting mock drills in the city to check its preparedness and the response time of their officers. According to a senior officer, the special branch on Thursday had kept suspicious boxes in 11 different markets out of which 10 were detected either by police personnel or by local public.


Sleuths tap America to crack Delhi blast case

With no conclusive leads more than 72 hours after the Delhi high court bombing, New Delhi has exchanged notes with Washington on whether US intelligence has picked up any signal or communication, particularly from the sub-continent, that could provide a breakthrough in the case.


Under the aegis of bilateral counter-terror cooperation, Indian security agencies are in touch with both US and western intelligence agencies to investigate whether the attack had origins outside the country or involved homegrown terror groups.

During US secretary of state Hillary Clinton’s visit to India in July, Indian intelligence chiefs had interacted in detail with visiting US national intelligence director James Clapper on homegrown terror.

Official sources said that under the institutionalised channel between Indian and American intelligence agencies, the two countries are trawling through data on signal intelligence, communication intercepts, known terrorists and their sympathisers to bring the perpetrators of the high court attack to book.

American agencies are helping India trace the IP address of the four emails claiming responsibility for the attack through Google and Yahoo internet companies. However, despite the large American footprint in the sub-continent, officials said that till now there is no technical input to suggest the bombing was either staged or carried out by foreign or local terrorists.

Sources said it was due to the robust bilateral cooperation on counter-terror that the two sides regularly peep into each other’s databanks to neutralise threats emanating particularly from Pakistan-Afghanistan. While the US is looking for cooperation to target terrorist groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba and al Qaeda, India is interested in details given out by Lashkar terrorists recently arrested in the US.

vera_k
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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby vera_k » 11 Sep 2011 11:13

More PETN manufacturers -

Akzo Nobel India Ltd Gurgaon

Hindustan Equipment Nagpur

Tamil Nadu Industrial Explosives

All Congress states so far.

shiv
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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby shiv » 11 Sep 2011 11:51

ramana wrote:Hyderabad:

Gulf Oil Corporation Ltd (Andhra Pradesh, Hyderabad)
Gulf Oil Corporation Ltd
Sanathnagar Industrial Estate
Kukatpally, P.B. No.1
500018 Hyderabad
India

We can compile this list.


A Bangalore company called "Indian Detonators Limited" was later to become IDL Chemicals limited. That was bought by Gulf Oil corp and merged with the parent company. The Bangalore company was basically an explosives company. Don't know aboit now.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2011 14:40

The kind of madness in our media to remember 9/11 is shocking .
How many times the same media has remembered serial train blasts in Mumbai trains or unsolved blasts?
The issue of inability to solve blast comes up only when another blast happens.
It just shows the kind of influence an incidence in US has over media (in the World)
In UK the only major incidence was 7/7 blast in tube trains and it is bombarded 24 by 7 in form of documentary , news analysis etc on UK news media.

With 26/11 not far away , we will see how many of our newspapers ask govt why it hasn't hanged Kasab as yet or what has been done over 3 years to prevent similar attack ?

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Sep 2011 14:47

IndraD wrote:How many times the same media has remembered serial train blasts in Mumbai trains or unsolved blasts?


This is The Hindu on March 12, 2003 (10th anniversary of 1993 Bombay blasts).

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby IndraD » 11 Sep 2011 15:07

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/batl ... 50861.html
high tension ahead of Batla House encounter anniversary
The state of alert has also been heightened in the view of the anniversary of the Batla House encounter, the second year of which saw the shooting and failed bomb attack at the Jama Masjid in 2010. The police have asked the management at various shopping malls across the city to beef up security at their premises and install CCTVs, wherever required. The Railways have also been asked to stop the sale of platform tickets to ensure that only genuine passengers with proper tickets enter the platforms. The cops have also asked the hotels in the city to submit their CCTV footage for the last 10 days.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby joshvajohn » 11 Sep 2011 19:31

India has to support the reformed and prodemocratic Islam elsewhere and also in Indian contexts. Also keep cameras in all muslim community areas to monitor the vechiles and movements particularly in those areas of Delhi and Mumbai.

Unless India has a reform in the vechile registration (being strict in having addresses and not to allow to others to use the vehicles) and also individual's ids and restriction of hotels and migration of people from one place to another place with ids and so on, such terror activities will continue.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby chetak » 11 Sep 2011 19:50

IndraD wrote:The kind of madness in our media to remember 9/11 is shocking .
How many times the same media has remembered serial train blasts in Mumbai trains or unsolved blasts?
The issue of inability to solve blast comes up only when another blast happens.
It just shows the kind of influence an incidence in US has over media (in the World)
In UK the only major incidence was 7/7 blast in tube trains and it is bombarded 24 by 7 in form of documentary , news analysis etc on UK news media.

With 26/11 not far away , we will see how many of our newspapers ask govt why it hasn't hanged Kasab as yet or what has been done over 3 years to prevent similar attack ?



Have you forgotten who controls all these networks?? :evil:

Even BBC and CNN have the same identical visuals carried by our very own DDM

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby chetak » 11 Sep 2011 19:53

joshvajohn wrote:India has to support the reformed and prodemocratic Islam elsewhere and also in Indian contexts. Also keep cameras in all muslim community areas to monitor the vechiles and movements particularly in those areas of Delhi and Mumbai.




One can be jugged immediately under the new communal violence bill for this. :wink:

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby sanjeevpunj » 11 Sep 2011 21:58

joshvajohn wrote:Unless India has a reform in the vechile registration (being strict in having addresses and not to allow to others to use the vehicles) and also individual's ids and restriction of hotels and migration of people from one place to another place with ids and so on, such terror activities will continue.

This is a constructive idea.Registration must be renewed every year,after checking the vehicle's road worthiness.Vehicles with bald tyres must be sent back and the tyres changed to new, before being re-registered.More frequent vehicle checks are important for Intel gathering.In fact it must be made mandatory, in this hi-tech age, to have GPS trackers on every vehicle.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby ramana » 11 Sep 2011 22:32

And feed the sense of discrimination that Zakaria talks about. He doesn't feel the NYPD focus on Muslims in NY bu he feels the pain from far away India.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby satya » 11 Sep 2011 22:47

Converting India into CCTV nation won't solve the terror problem other than giving a new tender to Israeli or Swedish firm for cctvs . For one , specialists are needed to monitor & analyse the video stream from CCTVs & it requires 3-5 yrs of training to make one specialist . Same goes for police constable as HM mentioned 1-2 yrs ago it takes 3 yrs of training for constable till then constable a mere quantity . We are facing terror attacks that require both quantity & quality.

Coming to question of CCTVs in Muslim residential areas to what purpose is this area the one that will be attacked Terrorists are not that stupid unless you know whom you are looking for CCTV will tell/record 40 people went in 40 came out but yes it will raise the paranoia level in the community so its a non starter forget it .

Anti- terror operations are all about mind games , ever ask why there's a limited number of bomb makers in each group when our dear western neighbor tells them ie TSP trained bomb makers specifically to spread the bomb making technique to as many locals possible in India without bringing them outside country ? Its all about ego , once bomb maker has a competitor he loses significance & in some cases we get a dud as one happened in May attack on Delhi HC & to keep their ego massaged one hear the fancy titles of Jihadi terrorists in J&K as div. commander n so on its not that they need to manage an army level division of troops or area or operations its all about ego , TSPA & its titles plays a very big role in Pakjabi psyche & it shows up in their titles in J&K & other areas where there's terrorism .

That brings back to news of terror module being busted or cell busted , its simple our ATS teams rarely go for foot soldiers but for these specialists either module leader or his bomb maker or in some case both r same person . Foot soldiers are in it 9 out of 10 times for money & ofcourse religious duty sermon sometimes get a discount . So to get to leader is a long process whenever we get one leader paranoia ensures decision paralysis in terror modules , they seek revenge on state yes but before that they want to find out the traitor among themselves , sometimes all you need is to watch a muslim extended family's behavior & it mirrors their public life .

Another thing about muslims in India is foot soldiers of terror modules always bow to leaders who can speak fluently quran in chaste arabic + chaste urdu for general talk & now a days can surf internet for we know what & has some family background known as khandaan ( even muslim barbers talk about khandaan just to give an idea what a big thing it is ) or has proved himself of leader in petty fights since childhood , not every person a leader so we are looking for specific making the task easy at same time difficult besides more the time a module spend time together greater the chance one of its member will sell the module either due to ego clash ( he said so yes it gets that petty don't think these terrorists are super humans )

I am not writing this to cover for incompetence of police in delhi blast but just that there are no instant solutions . Local policing has changed from where i see .

JMHTs

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby JwalaMukhi » 11 Sep 2011 22:58

Would the would be terrorist be shaking in the boots, just because he is going to be caught on CCTV? Probably, he will be elated because he would be honored guest in some of the best facilities that Indian Prison system can afford. He will be good pawn to bargain for the politicians and will be looked after very well in exchange for votes and other things. Maybe if he is good he will also get ayurvedic massage thrown in apart from specialized biryani prepared from top chef.

Because none of the terrorists are executed, there is no point in providing them free lunch at tax payers cost and also enable the politicians to bargain with the vote banks. This would corrupt the system even more.
Provide exemplary punishment in the case of conviction, that will go a long way in deterrence. Else every catch is potential negotiation for trading some national interest.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Bhaskar » 11 Sep 2011 23:19

Its almost hilarious watching the pseudo-secular Indian liberals acting like they have all the answers by questioning why there was no CCTV camera at Gate no. 5.

CCTV cameras are simply useless for terror prevention. It can be useful to prevent robbery or to catch a robber, yet for terrorism, it is useless.
Even if the CCTV camera catches the terrorists face (big if seeing how crowded some areas get), the sketch would be no better than the artists sketch which are drawn after every blast. I like how PC says that his ministry paid for a CCTV camera which wasn't installed by the Delhi police so his hands are clean. Are we to think that a CCTV camera will deter a terrorist from planting a bomb? He'll just put the bomb 2 feet away from the camera.
Stop the waste of taxpayers money buying CCTV cameras, they are useless. Cell phone jammers, which can jam a cellphone from triggering a explosive are useful, a stronger policy against terrorism prevents attacks, a political will prevents terrorists from running rampant and a strong ground intelligence prevents terrorists from entering the country. This is what "PREVENTS" attacks Mr. Chidambaran, your government and ministry have ignored all of these.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby chaanakya » 11 Sep 2011 23:43

There were CCTVs in Jhaveri Bazar and Diamond Market. Did they solve the case as yet , caught anyone and filed charge-sheet?

Or like Lungimaster says Clues are promising but not conclusive.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby IndraD » 12 Sep 2011 00:53

^^ CCTV footage are very helpful. Police in London took extensive help of them in solving 7/7 blast.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... court.html

Electronic eyes wide shut-
Four days after the blast, thanks to the land-owning agency's obstinacy, we're still struggling to make a head or tail of the case. After the 7/7 London bombings, electronic surveillance ensured the guilty were more or less identified through citywide raids within five days," said a senior police officer.

Six years after the 7/7 bombings, Britain has, as per independent surveys, installed 4.2 million CCTVs across the island. This means that an average Londoner makes at least 300 appearances on cameras daily.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 44534.aspx

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby IndraD » 12 Sep 2011 01:12

Bomber treated at high court dispensary?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/bomb ... 50864.html

A sensational testimony by a parking attendant at gate no. 5 of the Delhi High Court, scene of Wednesday's blast, has given ground to police doubts that the bomber could be one among those injured in the attack.
The attendant has reportedly told the investigators that he was busy parking a car when he heard a deafening noise. "Even before I could realise what has happened, I saw a man dressed in a white kurta pyjama rising among the heaps of bodies on the ground and walking towards the court building. He was bleeding profusely and he might have gone to the dispensary in the court building to get himself treated," the attendant, who kept his identity secret, said.
He said while the majority of the people waiting at the pass counter were either injured and had fallen on the ground or rushing outside, the yet to be identified man, was conspicuously rushing inside the court premises

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Bhaskar » 12 Sep 2011 01:21

IndraD wrote:^^ CCTV footage are very helpful. Police in London took extensive help of them in solving 7/7 blast.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... court.html

Electronic eyes wide shut-
Four days after the blast, thanks to the land-owning agency's obstinacy, we're still struggling to make a head or tail of the case. After the 7/7 London bombings, electronic surveillance ensured the guilty were more or less identified through citywide raids within five days," said a senior police officer.

Six years after the 7/7 bombings, Britain has, as per independent surveys, installed 4.2 million CCTVs across the island. This means that an average Londoner makes at least 300 appearances on cameras daily.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 44534.aspx

Note a few points :

1. CCTV's don't prevent terrorism.
2. India faces a threat that is exponential when compared with England's.
3. Terrorists plan on attacking heavily populated areas. This makes monitoring the areas very tough and finding an individual tougher. Even singling out a person on CCTV would not give a clear picture of his face in a heavily populated area.
4. Unlike England, where they face a homegrown threat and can find the person once his face becomes public. In India, most of the threat comes from foreign nationals which makes it close to impossible to track the person down.


We can put all the technology we want on the streets. If Indian liberals want to catch up to the west, it shouldn't be in technology, we should catch up with their policy against terrorism and their ground intelligence. Thats why no attacks happened in america after 9/11, not because of CCTV.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 12 Sep 2011 07:20

Delhi high court blast: NIA puts mobile firms on notice

National Investigation Agency (NIA) has served formal notices to at least two mobile telephony service providers, asking them to give details of numbers from which three emails were sent to the media and Delhi Police, claiming responsibility for the Delhi high court blast.

The NIA informed them that if they failed to do so, they would be liable for prosecution.

The lead on the first email, sent from a cyber cafe in Kishtwar in Jammu and Kashmir, has also run dry as the student picked up in this connection has denied sending any such mail in the name of Harkat-ul-Jehad-al-Islami (HuJI).

NIA sources said formal notices were issued to service providers as these companies have not been able to dig out the numbers and cell phone locations from which three emails — two in the name of chotoominani5@gmail.com and one with killindia@yahoo.com — were sent to media organisations after the blast.

The last email signed by one Ali Saed El-Hoorie had threatened to target Ahmedabad and the first mail had indicated a strike on a mall.

While the first mail from Chotoo had been initially traced to Kolkata, it turned out to be a false lead.

To further complicate matters, the Kishtwar schoolboy Sunny Sharma, who was detained by the J&K Police for allegedly sending the HuJI mail, has flatly denied sending any such message. Sharma has apparently accepted that he was in the cyber cafe between 1.00-1.30 pm on September 7 but said he had nothing to do with the HuJI mail.

With the case still blind, the NIA is now waiting for the Gujarat forensic science lab report for details of the IED used.

Though the NSG bomb team had concluded that a nitrate-based explosive was used for the blast, there is no confirmation on either a switch or PETN being used by the terrorist last Wednesday.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby merlin » 12 Sep 2011 12:54

kumarn wrote:Almost everyone gets unfairly treated by the pandus in India, but only people of a particular idealogy go about bombing public places. Tells me more about this idealogy than the pandus.


And their supporters like our lobotomized "expert".

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Dilbu » 12 Sep 2011 13:00

IndraD wrote:^^ CCTV footage are very helpful. Police in London took extensive help of them in solving 7/7 blast.

We should be focussing on preventing terror attacks rather than finding ways to collect the clues after a blast. I am not saying we don't need CCTVs but they are not the solution. Here is a clue: A good terrorist is a dead terrorist. Even better if he is dead before crossing the LOC.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby kumarn » 12 Sep 2011 13:05

Problem is there are many LOC's inside India.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Dilbu » 12 Sep 2011 13:13

kumarn wrote:Problem is there are many LOC's inside India.

CCTV is not a substitute for political will.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby sum » 12 Sep 2011 13:18

^^ Honestly, don't blame the policemen and intel folks for refusing to stick their necks out and try to battle the terrorists unless you want to end up with a bullet ( like M.C.Sharma) and abuses from top netas like Diggi, Mulayam etc or end up in jail ( like DIG Vanzara and 30-40 other policemen).

Future looks really grim on internal security/security agencies morale front since i don't foresee a future GoI without INC in it for 20-30 years atleast.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby kumarn » 12 Sep 2011 13:49

Dilbu wrote:
kumarn wrote:Problem is there are many LOC's inside India.

CCTV is not a substitute for political will.


Absolutely. We need to nip the problem in the bud. We need to find a way to break the ghettos inside the cities.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby joshvajohn » 12 Sep 2011 14:44

Ofcourse Political will is essential. But Police must be allowed to operate on their own. They should be asked to come up with strategies of preventing such attacks in future. They should also square up those potential areas from where such terror groups are coming again and again. ofcourse CCTV does not help all the time to prevent. But with those areas people's photos should be all registered and those who are seen as new in the CCTV they sometime recognise the individuals photographs. If such differences are held then police should act immediately. Also all the hotels should be asked to keep a cctv in their reception to keep a watch on their visitors as well and should be recorded.

It is not only individuals but also vechile registrations and the government can actually ask people to pay for their id cards or work with bank ids so that their ids can be easily recognised through their faces. Without having some watching and controls over people's movement to those important places such targets are very easy and like in some films they can pre inform you day and time and strike those places very easily. We should not defensive alone but proactive in controlling the terror act. No one should show any sympathatic attitude towards terror acts by deflecting the arguements on protecting people and working against the terror. Being strict against terror does not mean that government or people are against Islam or Muslims. Many people will cooperate even from Muslims areas because their children and their families are often the first targets of such vilence because if the terrorist cannot do anywhere they can easily do in their own place and mosques. In this sense protecting people, I mean all indians should be our primary task. During such activities some of our regular activities will be difficult for the sake of people's lives we have to undergo such restrictions and protections as we are doing in the airports at times.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby SSridhar » 12 Sep 2011 15:52

Dilbu wrote:
IndraD wrote:^^ CCTV footage are very helpful. Police in London took extensive help of them in solving 7/7 blast.

A good terrorist is a dead terrorist. Even better if he is dead before crossing the LOC.

Dilbu, absolutely. At the same time, it is going to be impossible in India to stop terror attacks. That's the nightmarish scenario. There are several reasons for that from vote-bank politicians, to religious fanatics, to divisions within society, instigation from Pakistan, China, Bangladesh & Sri Lanka, porous borders, corrupt institutions, argumentative Indians, p-secs, human rights organizations, inefficiency of CT agencies, a creaking legal system etc. Therefore, it is going to be a long while before the terrorists are stopped in their tracks before they actually carry out a plan. In the meanwhile therefore, we must do three things even as we simultaneously work on CT:
  • Make our investigating agencies one of the best in the world
  • Re-work on the legal system so that the cases are concluded fast and special laws and courts make it easier
  • Setup enabling infrastructure to help the investigating agencies
The last point would include Aadhaar ID, NatGrid, {working } CCTVs, effective local policing etc.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby Manu » 12 Sep 2011 16:00

FROM DNA News

Ahmedabad: One of the e-mails sent to TV channels claiming responsibility for the Delhi High Court blast was a hoax, according to a report.

The e-mail was apparently sent by a man called Monu from Gujarat.

He has now been arrested and a case has also been registered against him under the IT act.

On the Friday after the blast, the NIA had received the mail- the third claiming responsibility for the blast- from a Yahoo mail account named ' Kill Indian', in which a terror group has claimed the responsibility for the Delhi blast, though it didn't name the name of the organisation.

The email had threatened to increase the number of terror attacks in India in the coming future. The government had reportedly asked Yahoo! for the details of the e-mail account.

The e-mail had been sent in numerical code and was deciphered by the police. The e-mail had said that Ahmedabad was the next target of terrorists.

High-alert had been declared in Gujarat after the e-mail threatening terror attack in Ahmedabad was received, a report in DNA said.


Apparently the youth was recently fired from his job and depressed.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby vera_k » 12 Sep 2011 20:55

It is high time that Digvijay Singh and Chidambaram are brought in for questioning in these unsolved cases. Since agencies aren't likely to do this on their own, it is up to the Supreme Court to take the SIT route as it did with black money.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby KLNMurthy » 12 Sep 2011 23:41

Lalmohan wrote:let us assume that GOI are very clever people, (they must be since they know such ingenious ways to pull scams)
what is gained by having an angry janata and doing an ==; like all things there must a political angle
not just domestic (as i am sure many of you will now add) but international...
what are the scenarios?
1. confuse kiyani?
2. force let-hafix to declare his hand?
3. flush out further attacks in the pipeline?
4. force some sort of unkil-munna game into next stage?
lets start thinking

Their actions could also reflect fear of something, not just driven by gain.

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby IndraD » 13 Sep 2011 00:23

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?734444
Police arrests kin of surrendered terrorists , grilling on

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 447891.ece
Bandh in Kishtwar against arrests

FBI contacted to crack the case, http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 50940.html

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Re: Terrorist attack on Delhi High Court

Postby abhishek_sharma » 13 Sep 2011 06:39

Delhi blast probe: Email a hoax, one held in Gujarat

A 24-year-old data entry operator has been arrested in Ahmedabad for sending an email threatening terror strike in the Gujarat town after the September 7 Delhi blast. Manu Oza had sent an email to the Delhi Police on September 9 from ID kill.india@yahoo.com, signing off as Ali Saed El-Hoorie — a name he picked up from the FBI’s most-wanted list.

Oza, who walked out of home after a fight with his father and is a school dropout, told the police that he was worried that Ahmedabad would be the next target after the Delhi blast, which left 13 people dead, so he sent the mail to ensure that security was beefed up in the city.

Four emails were received claiming and also threatening attacks after the high court terror strike.

The National Investigation Agency (NIA) has found that the two terror mails sent from the chotoominani5@gmail.com — on September 7 and 8 — were sent using two different internet protocol addresses. One of the emails was sent through a mobile phone.

The sender, who identified himself as a member of terror outfit Indian Mujahideen, claimed the Delhi blast and warned of strikes in Ahmedabad and in the Capital.

Investigators have found the IP address of only one sender device. An IP address is a numerical label assigned to devices participating in a computer network that uses internet for communication.

The NIA's questioning of a college student arrested in Kishtwar for allegedly sending an email immediately after the Wednesday blast from harkatuljehai2011@gmail.com has yielded little. The boy has denied his involvement, said sources. The time the email was received and the time on the clock of the computer used for sending the mail is different.


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