Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

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shravan
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Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

Postby shravan » 22 Sep 2011 21:38

Last page of previous thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6052&start=2840

________________________________________________________-
The following links are background articles on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:


Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

Whither Pakistan ? Growing Instability and Implications for India: an IDSA e-Book, July 2010
http://idsa.in/book/WhitherPakistan

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://sdpi.org/sdpi-old/whats_new/repo ... tBooks.pdf

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

Prof. Walter Russell Mead, "Pakistan's Failed National Strategy"
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -strategy/

"Pakistan Is", by Barry Bearak in New York Times Magazine, December 7, 2003.
Brings out succinctly various facets of Pakistani perfidy, obsession, fundamentalism etc.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... nted=print

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects, Stephen Tankel, April 2011
New America Foundation
http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica. ... _LeT_0.pdf

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

BEYOND MADRASAS: ASSESSING THE LINKS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND MILITANCY IN PAKISTAN
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... nthrop.pdf

Pakistani Military Officers' Links with Jihadist Organizations
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5587.htm

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

The Battle for Pakistan: Militancy and Conflict in Pakistan's Tribal Regions
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/ ... r_pakistan

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)


MISCELLANEOUS

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad

A perceptive blog on Pakistan: http://pak-watch.blogspot.com/

Declassified documents from US National Archives on Pakistan:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/pakistan.htm
_______________________________________________

Admission of state sponsored terrorism by Pakistani authorities


see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

On 7th Nov in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.

________________________________________________________________________

A Venn diagram, by Shiv, to illustrate the commonality and difference between "bad Taliban" and Jinnah's Pakistan.


________________________________________________________________________

Why Did Pakistan's Spy Chief Make a Secret Trip to China?
Pasha's China trip has been interpreted by some as a tacit act of defiance—a reminder to his American counterparts that the Pakistanis can always look east to their “all-weather” friend across the Himalayas rather than bend the knee to the will of the U.S.

But it also may be a sign of China's growing disquiet with Pakistan. Another top-ranking Pakistani military officer, Lt. Gen Wahid Arshad, had already conducted a considerable tour of China just weeks ago in a bid to improve ties. A few analysts have suggested that Pasha's trip — couched in vague terms about building a “broad-based strategic dialogue” — may have been less a visit and more of a summons.

Chinese officials claimed the attacks in Kashgar were authored by the shadowy East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a jihadist organization of mostly ethnic Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority that comprises the majority in the far-western Chinese region of Xinjiang. China routinely invokes the specter of the terrorist threat when cracking down on dissent in the restive region. Yet disturbances there tend to be triggered more often by social discontent — many Uighurs chafe at state policies they deem discriminatory and marginalizing — than militant connivance. Pasha's presence in Beijing may mark Beijing's continued efforts to root out Uighur dissidents and sympathizers beyond China's borders, as it has already done in Kazakhstan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shravan » 22 Sep 2011 21:43

Bomb blast kills five in Bajaur

KHAR: A powerful roadside bomb targeting an anti-Taliban militia ripped through a pick-up vehicle in Pakistan’s tribal belt on Thursday killing at least five people, government officials said.

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Blast kills 2 children in flood-hit Sindh

Islamabad, Sep 22 (PTI) A low-intensity bomb today killed two children in Pakistan''s flood-hit southern Sindh province, state-run PTV reported.

A police official said flood waters may have brought the bomb to the area from other parts of Sindh, where heavy rains and floods have affected nearly seven million people and inundated 23 districts.


---

Two killed in attack on Nato containers in Khyber

PESHAWAR: Two people were killed overnight when a group of militants opened fire on Nato supply containers, officials said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 22 Sep 2011 22:00

x-post.

Testifying to the US Congress today, Mullen and Panetta have some very harsh and blunt things to say about PakiSatan. Link to a video excerpt:

http://www.izlesene.com/video/mullen-pa ... ks/4772677

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 22 Sep 2011 22:01

^^ One of the rare neutral articles by MKB, where he doesnt seem to go into song and dance about Pak!!!


No Sum Ji..you didn't read the portion Carl bolded in his article:

Delhi even broke from the past pretence of POK being ‘our territory’ and allowed the visit by the former POK PM Sultan Mahmood Chaudhury to Srinagar.


I don't know what sort of people Delhi put up on it's Missions abroad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Amber G. » 22 Sep 2011 22:05

Sorry if already posted (Don't visit BRF's few dhagas too often)
From NYTimes The blunt headline/news:
Mullen Asserts Pakistani Role in Attack on U.S. Embassy
WASHINGTON — Pakistan’s intelligence agency aided the insurgents who attacked the American Embassy in Kabul last week, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Senate on Thursday.

In comments that were the first to directly link Pakistan’s powerful spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, with an assault on the United States, Admiral Mullen went further than any other American official in blaming the ISI for undermining the American military effort in Afghanistan. The United States has long said that the ISI has close links to Afghan insurgents, particularly the Haqqani network, but no one has been as blunt as Admiral Mullen. ...
....

Coming from Admiral Mullen, the statements carried exceptional weight. He has been the American military official who has led the effort for years to improve cooperation with the Pakistanis. But this year relations have skidded badly. They have reached a nadir since American commandoes located and killed Osama bin Laden deep inside Pakistan. Pakistani officials were not told of the raid in advance, and questions still remain about whether Pakistani intelligence was sheltering the Qaeda leader.

The attack on the American embassy, and ISI support for the Haqqani network — which also forms one of the most lethal parts of the insurgency attacking American forces in Afghanistan — is the latest point of tension.

“With ISI support, Haqqani operatives planned and conducted that truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy,” Admiral Mullen told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “We also have credible evidence that they were behind the June 28th attack against the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul and a host of other smaller but effective operations.”

In short, he said, “the Haqqani network acts as a veritable arm of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Agency.”

The truck bomb attack that Admiral Mullen referred to occurred at a NATO outpost south of Kabul on Sept. 10, when a cargo vehicle packed with explosives killed at least five people and wounded 77 coalition troops. The injury toll was one of the worst for foreign forces in a single episode in the ten-year-old war.

Admiral Mullen testified alongside Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta, who told the committee that the attack on the embassy and the assassination this week of Burhanuddin Rabbani, the leader of Afghanistan’s High Peace Council and a former Afghan president, were “a sign of weakness in the insurgency.” He cast the attacks as signs that the Taliban had shifted to high profile targets in an effort to disrupt the progress the American military has made.

“Overall, we judge this change in tactics to be a result of a shift in momentum in our favor,” Mr. Panetta said.

No one has yet claimed responsibility for the attack on Mr. Rabbani.

Despite his optimistic remarks about American progress, Mr. Panetta said the United States military had a difficult job ahead and had to do better in preventing the insurgents from launching assaults. “While overall violence in Afghanistan is trending down — and down substantially in areas where we concentrated the surge — we must be more effective in stopping these attacks and limiting the ability of insurgents to create perceptions of decreasing security,” Mr. Panetta said.

The hearing, called by the panel to review American military policy in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the first for Mr. Panetta as defense secretary.

Like Mr. Panetta, Admiral Mullen sought to cast the recent attacks in Afghanistan in the best possible light. “We must not attribute more weight to these attacks than they deserve,” Admiral Mullen said. “They are serious and significant, but they do not represent a sea change in the odds of military success.”

Admiral Mullen voiced a stern warning to Pakistan, who he said was undermining its own interests as well as the American interest in fighting terror networks in the region.

“In choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan, and most especially the Pakistani army and ISI, jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership but Pakistan's opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,” he said. “They may believe that by using these proxies, they are hedging their bets or redressing what they feel is an imbalance in regional power. But in reality, they have already lost that bet.

“By exporting violence, they've eroded their internal security and their position in the region. They have undermined their international credibility and threatened their economic well-being.”

But he said he did not believe he had wasted his time by pouring so much effort into improving ties with Pakistan’s government.

“I've done this because I believe that a flawed and difficult relationship is better than no relationship at all,” he said. “Some may argue I've wasted my time, that Pakistan is no closer to us than before, and may now have drifted even further away. I disagree. Military cooperation again is warming.”

Theo_Fidel

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Theo_Fidel » 22 Sep 2011 22:14

TSP needs to be hit hard with a danda in the nuts behind the wood shed and spoken very softly to in public. This is their preference and how Panda and the Saudi go about it, like say withdrawing the oil facility in private and pledging support in public.

US is doing the exact opposite and not getting results. No wonder TSP laughs at their ultimatums....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 22 Sep 2011 22:20

In choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan, and most especially the Pakistani army and ISI, jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership but Pakistan's opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,” he said. “They may believe that by using these proxies, they are hedging their bets or redressing what they feel is an imbalance in regional power. But in reality, they have already lost that bet.

By exporting violence, they've eroded their internal security and their position in the region. They have undermined their international credibility and threatened their economic well-being.


Extremely strong language used by Mullen. These words won't go down well in Islamabad. But what exactly does Mullen imply by 'they've already lost that bet' wrt imbalance in regional power? Reduction in arms from the US? Don't see much manifestation in actual on the ground policy that reflects US has done much about reducing Pak's balance of power in the region..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2011 22:25

He is saying that
“They may believe that by using these proxies, they are hedging their bets or redressing what they feel is an imbalance in regional power. But in reality, they have already lost that bet.


Using proxies has not hedged the reality of regional power imbalance. IOW its a failed strategy for TSP. India trumps no matter what TSP does by way of terrorists.

Now he is acknowledging/realising it!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby abhijitm » 22 Sep 2011 22:27

In choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan, and most especially the Pakistani army and ISI, jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership but Pakistan's opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,” he said.

I dont remember such blunt unambiguous official US statement directly accusing pakistan gov, army of using terrorism as an instrument of policy. It deserves a place on the first page of TSP dhaga.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2011 22:28

Isn't there dichotomy in US dept of State and Pentagon vis avis US policy to TSP?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby abhijitm » 22 Sep 2011 22:33

^^ yes, but I dont recall such publicized blunt statement from a military officer who played a prominent role for GOTUS in the Indian subcontinent.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 22 Sep 2011 22:36

Ramana ji, thanks. You're possibly right. However it works out finally only when the US/ or any nation for that matter incl India say is committed completely to wiping out the terror Infra on Paki soil. And for the finality of that statement it must imply Pro-Kashmiri groups too in the complete sense. On the contrary Pakistan see's terror against India (the most significant regional power in the region) as working. They think and it's possibly true..they've got India to the table, irrespective of the 26-11's. The battle on that front IMHO is still being waged. Mullen's statement in the regard specially when they've even been unable to neutralize the Haqqani network to be a bit premature.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby prahaar » 22 Sep 2011 22:37

@Abhijitm, Some of it was visible even during Al Bin Powell and Rumsfeld. Its the grunts who face PA-perfidy, DOD has more ears, whereas SD is in bed with PA since 70s.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rangudu » 22 Sep 2011 22:42

^^ Actually DoD has been more under the koolaid than other branches until the last 2-3 years. This has less to do with intra-department split but more to do with a complete "We give up" state reached by all parties. The CIA was the most closely in-bed group and they turned after Raymond Davis and the leak of CIA chief names.

They used Mullen to deliver the blunt public message to make a point that even the guy most inclined to buy TSP BS has had enough.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 22 Sep 2011 22:43

Don't forget the assassination of CIA station chief in Afghanistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby abhijitm » 22 Sep 2011 22:45

hmmm, after reading more carefully what Mullen said, it is not all that unambiguous. Term 'violent extremism' may or may not mean terrorism.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby subodh » 22 Sep 2011 22:53

Words are cheap/free.

The public's attention in the US has moved from the PakAf nonsense to the horrid economy and the disaster unfolding in the markets. No one will care/check/remember if there is any action follow through after all this tough talk.

I suspect, in reality, all this smoke is being f@rted out to hide some more baksheesh - as a begging bargain from the US to the paki orcs to tone down the hits a bit so Obama can tout a troop pull out going into election season.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ranjbe » 22 Sep 2011 22:57

The US danda is going to start with cut-off of aid. Military aid is already in suspension, now both the Senate and the House have bills pending to cut economic aid unless Pakis deliver on the Haqqanis. With the shutoff from the IMF (and therfore repurcussions on Asian bank and World bank loans, since these bodies act in concert), the Pakis will be left with only tarrel than tarrest and KSA as their sources of aid.
Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, asked Panetta whether he supports a move in Congress to condition further U.S. aid to Pakistan on the administration being able to certify that the Pakistani government is cooperating with the U.S. in fighting extremist groups, including the Haqqanis.
"Anything that makes clear to them that we cannot tolerate their providing this kind of safe haven to the Haqqanis, and that they have to take action — any signal that we can send to them — I think would be important to do," Panetta said.


US likes to orchestrate such changes with a concerted blast of psychological warfare. The 1/2 friends (Japan, UK, etc.) will also think twice about their aid programs.
Interesting times ahead.

http://news.yahoo.com/mullen-pakistanis-export-violence-afghanistan-150417419.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby JE Menon » 22 Sep 2011 23:00

I don't know if the Pakisatans realise this, I hope not, but this some ominous sh1t... When such statements are made, there is no going back... not very soon anyway.

This is the first time such comments have been made by the US against the state of Pak in the latter's history. It is not just off the cuff...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RCase » 22 Sep 2011 23:11

With the conclusion derived by Mike Mullen (albeit a bit late) that TSP has chosen 'violent extremism'; shouldn't that qualify TSP a charter membership in the list of the 'axis of evil' and hence be the recipient of prevailing privileges of sanctions that are accorded to countries that sponsor terrorism?

It is pathetic to see that $1B will be pumped into a bottomless pit. :evil:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2011 23:16

Well the US is on thin ice here. For decades they pooh-ppohed Indian charges of TSP state use of terrorist networks against India and now the shoe pinches their foot and they are claiming victimhood and perfidy!

In 2008, the ISI and TSPA attacked Indian Embassy in Kabul. What did the US say then?

If the show pinches remove it and then talk.

BTW TSP has gamed the situation very well with US help onlee.

As soon as some action is taken by US there will an incident which will force US to come rushing to their aid.
The TSP knows US big power compulsions and plays accordingly.
This is what MKB admires.

For the US to not rush in to support the TSP means its big power days are over.

Will the US experteratti realise like Cardinal Richelieu that the Three Muskeeters did the right thing in taking out Milady?

Fat chance!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rangudu » 22 Sep 2011 23:16

Mind boggling $h1t here. Simply. mind. boggling.

The American Nato commander in Afghanistan personally asked Pakistan's army chief to halt an insurgent truck bomb headed for his troops during a meeting in Islamabad earlier this month, two days before a huge explosion that wounded 77 US soldiers at a base near Kabul.

In reply General Ashfaq Kayani offered to "make a phone call" :evil: to stop the assault on the US base in Wardak province. But his failure to use the American intelligence to prevent the attack has fuelled a blazing row between the US and Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 22 Sep 2011 23:23

So all is finally good, atleast with the Panchtantra chief? he no longer talks in riddles- maybe. But has he educated anyone? most of all those who would rule the kingdom. Seems Doubtful. And at such time when that comes to pass, perhaps the Gurus here at BRF would deign to work out US policy options that would leave it no policy options, once they ditch the paki.That really is the nub of the rub, is'nt it. Pakis provide such a smorgesboard of options in the region. Ditching them is like collapsing multiple wave functions. When the dust clears, the US will be left with nothing useful wrt Iran. Will be in well defined corner - admittedly a large, spaceous corner, with India, and will be saddled with long term comittments in Afghanistan, not to mention dealing with the paki carcass. Look how attractive is the alternative of a continuing educational tool relationship with the paki. Yes it hurts some times - ok it has begun to hurt all the time, but pain on a 0-10 scale seldom exceeds 3. Standard carrot-stick type chankian rules work well - correction, have workrd well, until now. At present, US just has a sullen, vengfull - "go ahead so kill me, kill me twice, so you'll have nothing but my carcass to deal with" - etc. paki on their hands for now, but really, if pakikush or pakicide is contemplated, would it not be better on "America's time and place of choosing"- hain ji? By then, no doubt, the crisis would have passed. pain level down to 0-1. Paki might have even pulled its trump card of an army take over to "start relations afresh" as they say in pindi. For India, more of the same same, until some one of the right anatomical strength comes along and puts the entire nautanki out of business. Two cents.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Nandu » 22 Sep 2011 23:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:TSP needs to be hit hard with a danda in the nuts behind the wood shed and spoken very softly to in public. This is their preference and how Panda and the Saudi go about it, like say withdrawing the oil facility in private and pledging support in public.

US is doing the exact opposite and not getting results. No wonder TSP laughs at their ultimatums....


I think US was following the same strategy over the years. For example, US was publicly praising Pakistan, and making then munna, even as Amritraj threatened them with being bombed into the stone age. However, Unkil has now realized that that doesn't work, so it is gradually getting rid of the public pretense also.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 22 Sep 2011 23:49

If this situation does not resolve with a paki step down- and really, the world would be astonished if the paki has a death wish and continues to attack US/NATO in Afghanistan - then, probably the best regional bet for the US is to slice and dice the paki - taking Sindh/Balochistan out as their "special ally', leaving the pakjabis landlocked, holding POK to needle India with, and also NWFP thru which they can be fine tuned. It might all come with aid, green cards, you name it. Probably Iran, India, and China's worst nightmare. Fortunately for them, the US no longer has the $$$ to do such geopolitical gerrymandering like this, as they have in the past.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2011 23:53

parusram, If you note there was a report of Do Nothing Kiyani advising his corps(e) commanders(CC) that now it not the right time for a coup!

BTW I remarked that the CC's already have access to green cards as parents of citizens! The next lelvel of Colonels most likely will go to gelf. Its the captains and majors that will hold the camp.
Sort of Gadda fi's level.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 23 Sep 2011 00:02

Still this is a welcome change from the usual unkil reaction and paki NATO tanker burning tamasha in response.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Nandu » 23 Sep 2011 00:06

I noticed something about the video form of the Paki 9/11 ad. The background of country names is actually a map of the world, with countries replaced with their names, in font size proportional to what the size of the country would be in an ordinary (mercator projection) map.

What I noticed is, they have deliberately removed India from that map.

Even in that hypocritical ad, they are careful to offer peace to the entire world, except India.

EDITED: Sorry, India is not completely gone. They just reduced the font size and brightness to make it almost invisible.
Last edited by Nandu on 23 Sep 2011 02:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 23 Sep 2011 00:09

ramana ji: The man is probably lying. Coup has to be a serious option, even without the military mess, just on account of the economic mess.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby r_subramanian » 23 Sep 2011 00:51

Pakistan, U.S. & the immoderate Taliban
Praveen Swami's article in The Hindu
...
This we know for certain: the U.S. has spent years pressing Pakistan to act, without effect. In diplomatic cables obtained by the WikiLeaks, there is a graphic account of a July 29, 2008, meeting between top U.S. officials and Pakistan's Prime Minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani. Anne Patterson, Washington's Ambassador to Islamabad, hit out at Pakistan's claims that it had no knowledge of Sirajuddin Haqqani's whereabouts. She asserted that the ISI was in “constant touch” with him, and that the seminary from where he conducted business was clearly visible from a Pakistani military base.

Now though, as the U.S. prepares to withdraw from Afghanistan, it no longer has the luxury of time and that means Pakistan could soon be faced with hard decisions, each with murderous consequences.

link

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2011 00:55

Is the Indian worry that TTP types and like minded folks in uniform will takeover the TSPA after US withdrawl?

I mean what with Indian commentators like Pravin Swami, seeking TSP to act as time will be running out?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Gus » 23 Sep 2011 01:31

this reminds me of the bet I had with YamaR..

viewtopic.php?p=1142539#p1142539

where's my $5...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 23 Sep 2011 02:01

Well, if the US is going to stick to a schedule for withdrawal then time is really running out for the paki. I really cannot see the US leaving, with an emboldened jehadi paki waiting to take over Afghanistan. If the US leaves on schedule, then RIP the paki, 1947-201?.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RamaY » 23 Sep 2011 02:11

Gus wrote:this reminds me of the bet I had with YamaR..

viewtopic.php?p=1142539#p1142539

where's my $5...


Ayya Gus garu,
The context was
US media reports that many of those killed were from the elite Navy Seals.

CRamS wrote:If this is true, I expect deadly counter attack from US.

YamaR wrote:Naaaa.... US is scared of Pakis. They would not only do nothing to Pakis and instead would restart military aid. I bet $5.

Gus Mahasaya wrote:sarcasm much ;)
I take that bet. Show me an act of clear retaliation for this on the people who ordered this attack, and I will paypal you that $5.


I owe you $5. Penalty to put trust in USA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2011 02:15

parsuram wrote:Well, if the US is going to stick to a schedule for withdrawal then time is really running out for the paki. I really cannot see the US leaving, with an emboldened jehadi paki waiting to take over Afghanistan. If the US leaves on schedule, then RIP the paki, 1947-201?.



Again what goes our father? Why say RIP the Paki, when its Long Live the real Paki?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 23 Sep 2011 03:55

Again what goes our father?


Ramana Guru ji: I'll tell you what goes of their father. It is safty of the Persion Gulf shipping lanes, with natural immunity extended to the prcees. Those IEDs can be deadly on tankers, and no jehaadi ever worried about environmental impact of their actions. Not just that, Al Qaida or what ever names the paki extends to them will re establish training, planning, logistics etc with a vengence. Again, this close to ME oil fields. Other than all that, the father looses little.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby putnanja » 23 Sep 2011 04:09

The pakis have perfected the art of state sponsorship of terrorist organizations. No doubt the multiple groups like LeT, JeM, HuJi etc against India provided valuable experience. India tolerated all these groups for multitude of reasons. And the US was always advocating restraint on India. Now that the pakis true to their nature, are attacking the NATO/US troops using the same proxy method, wonder what the US will do now.

I don't see any way out but the total destruction of paki army structures and rebuilding it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby stryker » 23 Sep 2011 05:14

The US has finally realized that the Pakis are lifelong and committed terrorists who hate the civlized way of life of most of the rest of the world. The Paki army, which has never won a war, has to be cut down to size. The sooner this happens the better for the rest of the world.

The Pakis who blame everything (water shortages, floods, terrorism, killing of Shias, earthquakes, lack of electricity, Karachi daily killings, dengue) on the US-India-Israel axis might ironically see some joint operations by these countries one day if things get out of hand in that country that does not have a pot to piss in.

Redaing the Paki papers, they are in their usual denial mode: Haqqani group is not in Pakistan. Just like Bin Laden was not in Pakistan :) Nor is Dawood Ibrahim there or Zawahiri or teh Quetta shura!! Totally ridiculous.

For people who propagate hatred and violence, they may soon get some of their own medicinee.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2011 05:27

parsuram wrote:
Again what goes our father?


Ramana Guru ji: I'll tell you what goes of their father. It is safety of the Persian Gulf shipping lanes, with natural immunity extended to the prcees. Those IEDs can be deadly on tankers, and no jehaadi ever worried about environmental impact of their actions. Not just that, Al Qaida or what ever names the paki extends to them will re establish training, planning, logistics etc with a vengeance. Again, this close to ME oil fields. Other than all that, the father looses little.



So don't those fathers know all that? And yet give homilies to India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 23 Sep 2011 05:29

Nandu wrote:I noticed something about the video form of the Paki 9/11 ad. The background of country names is actually a map of the world, with countries replaced with their names, in font size proportional to what the size of the country would be in an ordinary (mercator projection) map.

What I noticed is, they have deliberately removed India from that map.

Even in that hypocritical ad, they are careful to offer peace to the entire world, except India.

EDITED: Sorry, India is not completely gone. They just reduced the font size and brightness to make it almost invisible.


Could you post the link please? I lost it in a maze of posts the last time someone linked it.


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