Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

[sivab]

In contrast, India faces an existential threat from TSP,

My bullshit meter hit full. Are you vying for nishan-e-pakistan? Grow up.

[abhishek_sharma]

Mullen Takes on the ISI: Will Sharp Words Be Backed by Deeds?: Paki guy

[sanjaykumar]

More of the same- barely veiled threats against Pakistan, but will they ever move on them.

So far it is like the morning ablutions of the average westerner- more noise than movement.

[Brad Goodman]

Pakistan's flood fund collection is peanuts: Daily

Islamabad: The funds collected in the Pakistani Prime Minister's fund for flood relief are just peanuts, said a daily on Saturday.

Floods in Sindh province have impacted over seven million people with almost half a million people being accommodated in over 2,500 camps. As many as 1.3 million homes have been damaged and six million acres of land were inundated.

An editorial in the News International said: "There had been widespread doubt in the national media that the prime minister's fund for flood relief would attract much interest, and so it has proved.

"Thus far it has received less than Rs.100 million - just over a million dollars - and calling such a sum 'peanuts' does a disservice to that humble foodstuff."

It said that the majority of that collected comes from official sources such as the National Bank of Pakistan where "people have donated a miserable Rs.0.5 million".

"Government officials are a little shy of discussing how much has been donated, presumably because it is the clearest possible evidence of just how little the public trusts anything that puts the words 'government' and 'money' in the same sentence," it noted.


"There is a similar reticence about how much international donors have given, and the reason is as plain as the nose on one's face. The current dispensation has a national and international reputation of being one of the most corrupt regimes in the history of the state," the editorial added.

[CRamS]

So far it is like the morning ablutions of the average westerner- more noise than movement.

Man oh man, coupled with the seasonal viral cough I am saddled with, I choked on this as I laughed. But seriously, how do you know that this is the average trait of a westerner? Some stereotype!!!!

[CRamS]

Mullen Takes on the ISI: Will Sharp Words Be Backed by Deeds?: Paki guy

The authours emphasizes that TSP obsession is all about India, India, India, ..., India. This is the low-hanging fruit that I US still believes can exploit with willing collaboraters in Delhi, and hence won't result in any action against the ISI. Its the least costly and path of least resistence.

[Brad Goodman]

joke time
Pakistan, Thailand have two millenniums old shared history

Senator Saifullah said that Pakistan and Thailand have a two millenniums old shared history, which still continues to this date. He said that Pakistan s well being is in the interest of Thailand and Thailand s well being in the interest of Pakistan.

[CRamS]

Coming from an IIT topper like you, this is pitiful analysis.


I have not read the post, but it is curious that such badges of honour seem to be uncovered out for all to glimpse.

Can you please read my post and comment on the substance.

[Brad Goodman]

The truth about polygamy: A special investigation into how Muslim men can exploit the benefits system

Read it all to see how pakis are exploiting the londonsitan's social security benefits.

[Cosmo_R]

IMO Pakistanis are the most pious in the world. They will never send a Pakistani woman to go and shake hands of all those foreign men. Who knows what they have been doing with their hands? Hain ji?

As ulema have said let Hina never be accused of Zina
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/76052

What is the ruling on one who is intimate with women but does not commit zina, i.e. kissing etc?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Zina (adultery, fornication) does not refer only to penetration, rather there is the zina of the hand, which is touching that which is forbidden, and the zina of the eyes, which is looking at that which is forbidden, even though zina that is committed with the private parts, is the zina which is punishable with the hadd punishment.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has decreed for every son of Adam his share of zina, which he will inevitably commit. The zina of the eyes is looking, the zina of the tongue is speaking, one may wish and desire, and the private parts confirm that or deny it.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5889; Muslim, 2657.

This was aptly summed up in a Kafir movie that said it just right..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XOi1GzOgfc

zina yahaan, marna yahaan

"....the zina of the tongue is speaking" : Cunning linguist this hurray guy...

[Dipanker]

Can you please read my post and comment on the substance.

Here is my comment: you write the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over... you get the drift!

[sanjaykumar]

Burkitt the English surgeon in Uganda systematically weighed stool specimens and declared the African to have the higher volume than the European's I humbly submit the Panjabi specimen- the largest in the world. All related to fiber, of course.

[Cosmo_R]

Is anger=hate. Does TSP/TSPians Hate America more than India now?

Apples and oranges. With India it is fury that a 'subject' people are not staying in its place. With US it is the rage of a spoiled son who thinks his father is being strict after a lifetime of pampering.

Very insightful. That is the piskology of Pakistan.

[Cosmo_R]

Burkitt the English surgeon in Uganda systematically weighed stool specimens and declared the African to have the higher volume than the European's I humbly submit the Panjabi specimen- the largest in the world. All related to fiber, of course.

That is the is the basis for the T**rd World moniker.

[CRamS]

Here is my comment: you write the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over... you get the drift!

No I don't, but if you are not willing to comment on the substance, let it pass.

[Surya]

CRamS wrote

Coming from an IIT topper like you, this is pitiful analysis.

That was unnecessary and you might want to edit it. Its irrelevant whether the person is an IIT topper or matriculate pass or illiterate

[shiv]

Coming from an IIT topper like you, this is pitiful analysis.

Some simple piskology.

"Your argument hurt me where it hurts the most by telling the absolute truth in a way that everyone can see. It pushed the real buttons that make me squirm, so I will, in turn, pull out some aspect of your background that others might not know on a public forum and deride that to buttress my own pathetic arguments and make me feel much better."

-10 for that

That was a good one Sadhna. You did exactly what is expected of an IIT topper, whether you are one or not.

[CRamS]

Guys, please sense the humor. You are reading too much piskology into my my friendly comment on GuptaJi's talents. I was disappointed that like DocJi, there was an attempt by GuptaJi to justify MMS's surrender to TSP, by suggesting that if mighty US finds it difficult to make TSP behave, one must appreciate India's. The scale and the context of USA's difficulties with TSP pale in comparison to India's, and he failed to point that out.

[shiv]

Can you please read my post and comment on the substance.

Indeed, TSP poses a difficult problem. But the difficuty it poses for US is different from the difficulty it poses for For India. For US, it is TSP brinkmanship demanding that US deliver India in return for TSP cooperation. For US, this is not a bad value proposition instead of having to assemble a costly war machine to take on TSP directly, and as a collateral side effect, disturb the geo-strategic India TSP balance that has served it well for so long. And yes, US does not need smarty SDREs like you challenging their authroity in Asia and beyond. Hence the ambivalence in forging an alliance with India and solving the TSP problem once for all. But make nomistake about, TSP is not about to pick a fight with US beyond a certail level of brinkmanship. Thats the difficulty US faces

In contrast, India faces an existential threat from TSP, and hence MMS & his dhotiwallahs shivering at the thought of taking on Kiyani & Co. Better to take on Baba Ramdev & Co at Lal Maidan, victory is assured. Easier still to take on "saffron terror" which MMSJi and PCJi have done to perfection.

Finally, just speculating, but reading between the lines of Kiyani's "its unfortunate and not based on facts" and Hina baby's "don't humiliate TSP publicly" remarks post Mullen tough talk, I speculate that TSP did a desparate gubo and begged forgiveness from US in private. Hence the climb down from US side.

As far as i can tell tell points you have made are
1. TSP poses a difficult problem for America and India
2. TSP is asking America to deliver India, and you believe that the US feels this is "not a bad proposition". Easier to deliver India than to assemble a "costly" war machine to take on Pakistan militarily
3. The US and Pakistan agree that India is a problem, never mind petty disputes
4. Indian leaders are scared of Pakistan, and would rather take on "internal enemies" who are easier to fight.

Based on the above four observations you have made, I would like to draw a few conclusions, and may be ask a question or two.

1. The US feels that it is more costly to fight Pakistan and cheaper to deliver India to Pakistan. The US is not wiling to fight Pakistan.
2. The fact that the US is unwilling to fight Pakistan is clear for everyone to see. The fact that the US is the sole remaining superpower is clear for everyone to see. It would be absolutely stupid for anyone with less power than the US to even think of taking on a Pakistan military that the US is unwilling to fight, let alone a Pakistan military that has US support. It is rational and sensible to be scared of Pakistan, especially for any Indian. One does not have to be an IIT topper to see this.
3. The US, finds it less costly to promise India to Pakistan. Indian leaders find it less costly to fight some cooked up internal enemies.
4. The Indian leadership is busy arresting "internal enemies" rather than tackling Pakistan. The US is busy extracting concessions from India to satisfy Pakistan
5. In this situation, Pakistan is at the top of the heap, because all of the US's military power is useless. Like a virile and horny man with no woman and no hands to stroke his manhood. India is at the bottom of the heap, being too scared to take on the Pakistan military and too eager to give away concessions to Pakistan.

What this means is that not only is Pakistan an enemy, the US too is an enemy of India. The US is aiding Pakistan and exacerbating the "existential threat" to India. This conclusion is not difficult to reach and I am sure you who are able to judge the intellectual capacity of IIT toppers will have figured this out for yourself.

Let me go one step beyond stating the obvious fact that the US is an enemy of India. If the US is an enemy of India, what would India's options be to survive, assuming that any India thinks that India can survive the twin enmity of a Pakistan-US combine. "Growing balls" is an attractive prescription, but India will have to grow balls to take on the USA and Pakistan. Fighting Pakistan alone is of no use when the US and Pakistan see eye to eye about India.

The other prescription for India that has been mooted on BRF by some people, if for India to "act like the US". As far as I can see India is:
1. Not attacking Pakistan militarily, which is acting like the US
2. Giving concessions to Pakistan, which is what the US does

I can see that you have a deep love for India and you have a deep distaste for what the US appears to stand for. I believe that your posts are full of dissatisfaction about India and a belief that the US is managing to dictate things to Pakistan. But you say that indirectly and express it as contempt for Indian leadership. I see nothing wrong in your emotions but where I disagree with you is what I see as your undue faith in limitless US power. What it boils down to is that Pakistan is a problem and neither the US nor India can solve it easily. The "differential level of difficulty for India and the US" is irrelevant. I feel my pain and you feel yours. Saying my pain is greater than yours is irrelevant.

In my view (and I have stated this in BRF before) the US's weaknesses are more apparent outside the USA than from inside. Perspective does matter. I also think that you believe that the US is very clever and that India and Indians are very naive. But you refuse to accept that Pakistanis might be smarter than the US. All these are what I would describe as biases in your views. You may be right. You may be wrong.

[Tamang]

Can Khar Bhai in truth really be a woman?


Naaaaaah!

[A_Gupta]

In contrast, India faces an existential threat from TSP,

My bullshit meter hit full. Are you vying for nishan-e-pakistan? Grow up.

Mine too.

[CRamS]

DocJi,

We are going in circles. First, good analysis from you, although flawed in some respects.For e.g.

The fact that the US is unwilling to fight Pakistan is clear for everyone to see. The fact that the US is the sole remaining superpower is clear for everyone to see.

US is unwilling to fight TSP is not because of incompetence or cowardice or lack of capability (all of which apply to India) which you don't say in so many words, but seem to imply. If I am wrong to conclude this, my apologies. Assuming my conclusion is correct, thats where you loose the plot.

As I said many times, given US's lethal military machine, they can annhilate TSP in a heartbeat, and you know that. But US goes out of its way to protect TSP. Why? Not because of cowardice or incompetence or lack of capability, but superpower real-politick. Once again, I admit I may be wrong here because US does seem to be paying quite a heavy price for this pratice of this real-politick visa vi TSP. TSP has US blood on its hands. Usually, US professing of weakness is sophistry, used to justify a certain policy at a given instant in time. But not when a country has US blood on its hands.

This is where India comes in, and all the familiar arguments I and other have made that needs no repitition. Also, heaven knows how many moles US has inside TSP. So maybe through a combination of US covert control of TSP, its ability to influence India to make concessions to TSP (see MMS's surrender on 26/11, and please don't tell me that was not an abject surrender), and financial inducements, US still prefers the "benign" approach as opposed to daisy cutters.

But make no mistake, both TSP and US know where the final Lakshman Rekha is. And TSP RAPE are not that stupid to cross that. Even on the current brinkmanship, my gut feel is that TSP has already wired some gubo pleadings.

[CRamS]

My bullshit meter hit full. Are you vying for nishan-e-pakistan? Grow up.

Mine too.

I see. Humor aside, please explain to me MMS's surrender on 26/11.

[A_Gupta]

Coming from an IIT topper like you, this is pitiful analysis.

Some simple piskology.

"Your argument hurt me where it hurts the most by telling the absolute truth in a way that everyone can see. It pushed the real buttons that make me squirm, so I will, in turn, pull out some aspect of your background that others might not know on a public forum and deride that to buttress my own pathetic arguments and make me feel much better."

-10 for that

That was a good one Sadhna. You did exactly what is expected of an IIT topper, whether you are one or not.

Thanks for the piskology. It looks correct from the top to the bottom.
-Arun Gupta

[AnimeshP]

DocJi,

We are going in circles. First, good analysis from you, although flawed in some respects.For e.g.

The fact that the US is unwilling to fight Pakistan is clear for everyone to see. The fact that the US is the sole remaining superpower is clear for everyone to see.

US is unwilling to fight TSP is not because of incompetence or cowardice or lack of capability (all of which apply to India) which you don't say in so many words, but seem to imply. If I am wrong to conclude this, my apologies. Assuming my conclusion is correct, thats where you loose the plot.

As I said many times, given US's lethal military machine, they can annhilate TSP in a heartbeat, and you know that. But US goes out of its way to protect TSP. Why? Not because of cowardice or incompetence or lack of capability, but superpower real-politick. Once again, I admit I may be wrong here because US does seem to be paying quite a heavy price for this pratice of this real-politick visa vi TSP. TSP has US blood on its hands. Usually, US professing of weakness is sophistry, used to justify a certain policy at a given instant in time. But not when a country has US blood on its hands.

This is where India comes in, and all the familiar arguments I and other have made that needs no repitition. Also, heaven knows how many moles US has inside TSP. So maybe through a combination of US covert control of TSP, its ability to influence India to make concessions to TSP (see MMS's surrender on 26/11, and please don't tell me that was not an abject surrender), and financial inducements, US still prefers the "benign" approach as opposed to daisy cutters.

But make no mistake, both TSP and US know where the final Lakshman Rekha is. And TSP RAPE are not that stupid to cross that. Even on the current brinkmanship, my gut feel is that TSP has already wired some gubo pleadings.

So let me get this straight ...
If TSP kills Indians, harms Indian interests & India does not retaliate it is cowardly/incompetent/ lacks capability but cannot be because of realpolitik. On the other hand if TSP kills Americans & harms American interests & America does not retaliate it is not cowardly/incompetent/ lacks capability but only because of realpolitik.

[A_Gupta]

My bullshit meter hit full. Are you vying for nishan-e-pakistan? Grow up.

Mine too.

I see. Humor aside, please explain to me MMS's surrender on 26/11.

Mere toppers can't explain anything to you, you'll have to look elsewhere.

PS: 9/11 was done by Saudis; the US helped them all reach home safely. As though MMS escorted Kasab to the border.

[CRamS]

AnimeshP,

Give me a f$%^ing break. US has crossed oceans to protect its interests, and faces an enermy in TSP which blows hot and cold.

TSP crosses the border and enters India and slaughters Indians and dares India to a nuke showdown.

You don't see the difference?

[Rahul M]

Wonder of wonders! Pakistan renting railway engines from India!

http://thenews.com.pk/Default.aspx

how long do you think news.com.pk/default would carry that news ?

here's the actual link.
http://thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail ... =9/25/2011

[AnimeshP]

I see. Humor aside, please explain to me MMS's surrender on 26/11.

PS: 9/11 was done by Saudis; the US helped them all reach home safely. As though MMS escorted Kasab to the border.

9/11 was carried out by Saudis and financed by Paki ISI, yet we all have seen the macho action Uncle Sam took against both of them ... India must learn from the US ... we should send Kasab back to Pak on Samjhauta express and also give TSP millitary aid worth a couple of hundred million dollars (after all we are poor SDRE country only and not superpower like US) ... I wonder if these actions will be counted as realpolitik or cowardly/incompetent/incapable

[CRamS]

PS: 9/11 was done by Saudis; the US helped them all reach home safely. As though MMS escorted Kasab to the border.

Apples and oranges. Saudi govt did not conduct 9/11. Besides, US asks Saudi govt to jump, and they will say how high. In contrast, Kesab was sponored by the state of TSP. And MMS resumes piss process with them, and TSP demands Kashmir. See the difference?

[Rangudu]

CRS,

US is not fully taking on TSP for similar reasons India caved in after 26/11 - nuke blackmail. If the US really puts its mind to it, TSPA can be defanged without military force, but even then there is no guarantee that a JDAM does not happen. It took a failed but direct attack on its embassy for the TSPA apologists in US Govt to shut up. They started to lose face with Abbottabad. The shedding of the pretense of TSPA being an "ally" is not easily reversible for either side. This is the next stage in the gradual process. Step function change will happen only if another 9/11 occurs.

In the meanwhile US has a lot of cards left, despite the unwillingness to use it. With every Haqqani attack, the willingness keeps increasing.

[CRamS]

R-man,

but what about the scale? Will US cave in to TSP should TSP execute something as brazen as 26/11 on US? Thats where the comparison between India's & US's cave-ins don't compare in scale IMO. India has not extracted any price, when it could have.

[Rahul M]

CRS, how about we attack sri lanka or thailand in retaliation for 26/11 ? will that be sufficiently TFTA in the amriki mould ?

[Anujan]

What happened with US and Vietnam? What is happening with US and Iran? US and Syria? Heck even Palestine is thumbing a nose at Unkil! Unkil's soldiers were killed in Iraq by yahoos trained in Iran and Saudi. What did Unkil do about that? Pakis are doing the same and Unkil is not retaliating. And you are declaring Pakis to be some superpower and/or Unkil entering into an unholy alliance with Pakis against India.

Basically It is a cost benefit analysis. How much resources to dump in Pakistan for what end? Take into account that US mobilized its entire society for war when its existence was threatened during WWII and Cold war. Pakis are just small mosquitoes who are needling the US in Afghanistan whose strategic importance to the US is questionable.

Look at it from a Paki point of view. Unkil's retiring ceremonial head of Army sneezes and there is a shalwar browning from the FM upto the PM and COAS. It is dominating the news in Paki-land and all of Paki twitterati is abuzz with it. OTOH Unkil's citizens are googling for Scarlett Johanssen's naked pictures which were leaked over the internet.

Think about what percentage of National consciousness Unkil occupies in Pakiland and vice versa.

I just am waiting for Pakis to get overconfident and overplay their hand like they always did vis-a-vis India.

[AnimeshP]

AnimeshP,

Give me a f$%^ing break. US has crossed oceans to protect its interests, and faces an enermy in TSP which blows hot and cold.

TSP crosses the border and enters India and slaughters Indians and dares India to a nuke showdown.

You don't see the difference?

Ahh ... which countries has the US "crossed oceans" to attack in order to protect its interests since WW2 ... lets see ...
1) Korea - we all know how that went (or is going)
2) Vietnam - must be some realpolitik reasons for the outcome of that one
3) Dominican republic (Operation Powerpack) - That one was won by the US hands down because of bravery/competence/capability. What a might enemy smashed across the Oceans .. phew
4) Grenada - Another toughie ... but victory ... Yaayyyy !!!
5) Lebanese civil war - Another example of famed realpolitik ...
6) Panama - That was a close one ... such a mighty enemy ... that too across the Oceans .. I tell ya these Yanks are bravery/competence/capability personified
7) Gulf War 1 - Victory again .. ya know that Saddam guy was a real tough nut to crack .. I mean his army was so good and so experienced what with just having fought a 8 year gruelling war with neighboring Iran .. good thing US had 28 buddies who went in with it otherwise this might have been another example of realpolitik
Bosnia - Yep another huge opponent smacked and beaten ...
9) Somalia - Err .. This was realpolitik
10) GWOT - It was bravery/competence/capability in Afghanistan .. but realpolitik in Pakistan
11) Libya - bravery/competence/capability

Let me know if I missed anything there ...

[CRamS]

CRS, how about we attack sri lanka or thailand in retaliation for 26/11 ? will that be sufficiently TFTA in the amriki mould ?

One does not have to follow every hare-brained action of US. India's best policy, most honorable policy would have been, no talks, none, until TSP moves on 26/11 suspects. I mean think about it, India has tons of evidence on its side, and MMS frittered it away.

[CRamS]

Anujan

+100

[Prem]

New A.Q. Khan Documents Suggest Pakistan Spread Nuclear Weapon Technology

Documents obtained by Fox News suggest that for decades Pakistan spread nuclear weapon technology around the globe in exchange for cash, political influence and help with its own atomic bomb program. Among those on the other side of the deals: China, Iran, North Korea and Libya.The charges are contained in two documents written by A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani nuclear arms trafficker long thought to be the mastermind behind an elaborate global supply and procurement network: a thirteen-page confession to government authorities and a dramatic letter hastily written to his wife as an international manhunt tightened around him.
In a Fox News exclusive, never-before-seen Khan photographs and documents will be featured in an upcoming special: "Fox News Reporting: Iran's Nuclear Secrets," airing Saturday at 10 p.m. ET and Sunday at 1 a.m. ET. The documents include the thirteen-page confession, the letter to his wife, and a Pakistani intelligence service report on Khan. The exclusive photographs show the Khans in a variety of intimate settings, including under house arrest. Fox News is also releasing the documents and photographs over the Internet today.
The extent of official Pakistan government involvement with Khan is a matter of intense and at times acrimonious debate among counter-proliferation experts. Was Khan a master criminal operating outside the system—or was he part of the system?The documents obtained by Fox News are A.Q. Khan’s version of events. They should be carefully weighed against other available evidence. But with U.S.-Pakistan relations severely strained by the killing of Usama bin Laden and the imminent draw-down of U.S. troops in neighboring Afghanistan, the question of nuclear-armed Islamabad spreading weapons of mass destruction takes on a new urgency.

( Uncle ka late gussa on Poaqussa)

[gakakkad]

@ CRamS saar, IIT toppers have failed to explain you the the logic..let a PMT topper and USMLE triple 99er try..

>>please explain to me MMS's surrender on 26/11.

Muslim votes? fear of losing 50k men in a military conflict? Even if the TSP AF/NAVY gets finished and the army gets disbanded terror in Yindia would not stop...Spending half a trillion dollars should the conflict go full scale and Indian Army needs to occupy pakistan... nukes or no nukes this is a scary prospect..

>>TSP crosses the border and enters India and slaughters Indians and dares India to a nuke showdown.

Indian forces are considerably more powerful than TSP one's for that to militaristic-ally happen... If you meant terrorism , then remember that CON-grass has even tried to gain political advantage by the terror attacks..

>>As I said many times, given US's lethal military machine, they can annhilate TSP in a heartbeat, and you know that. But US goes out of its way to protect TSP. Why? Not because of cowardice or incompetence or lack of capability, but superpower real-politick.

Tell me which "lethal military weapon" can do what to the Porkies ...

Please don't mention nukes here...

Sure it slaughter a couple of thousand pakis's .. so can we do it... but what objective can it achieve ? How will the war be financed...if India refuses to help where will they get their supplies from...

Why is a nation that is so impoverished that it finds a way to refuse medicaid for dialysis to its 15% poor population keep given 1 billion dollars of protection money to a state that they might as well destroy ?

To keep SDRE's in check you say ?

Is India so Important that the US tolerate humiliation , disgust and massive financial burden just to support the Paki's? In fact supporting the Chinese would have been a far better option...to counter the mysterious 10th avatar of SDRE vishnu?

Still easier would be to give a couple of million dollars of bribe to India's top politicians... You don't need to support any state..

[arun]

Greta Van Susteren of Fox News:

Pakistan has a lot of nerve …now they are threatening that we will lose them as an ally!