Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3680
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rudradev » 04 Oct 2011 03:35

CRamS wrote:Guys, we might kick and scream as would the Afghans, but there is a simple reality we must deal with and I thougt out aloud about this a long time ago on BR. After the initial ferrocity and gumption in launching the so called GWOT, with the zenith being even white maacho football players that capture the imagination of majority of whites joining in, on the fight against the "bad guys", reality has replaced fatnasy. Short of someone aiding Jihadis big time, there is no way Afganisthan is going become another launch pad for a 9/11 type attack. And TSP can guarantee that. With its proxies in power in Afganisthan, they will have everybody there by their b@lls. So Americans have no issue handing over Afganisthan to TSP in return for no terror on whites. The payoff being India out of Afganistan and TSP gets to keep LeT. A diabolical bargain, but not a bad one from US PoV. That seems to be the unstated mantra now. I cannot believe that US is begging Haqqni to talk. Thoo.


CRamS, let's assume you are right on this... the diabolical bargain that you describe is under way right now.

Only one question. Why wasn't this deal already done? US has no wish to keep bleeding in AfPak. Many factions in Washington have wanted to get out of there since the financial crisis blew up in 2008.

If the US had made this deal months or years ago, it could have saved a lot of money and lives, and Obama could have looked like a great hero for "bringing the troops home." In fact, if the US is seriously considering such a deal... Obama should have directly announced that he was going to bring the troops home, right after the Abbotabad raid. "Getting Bin Laden" would have silenced any critics who were insisting that Obama "stay the course." Obama could have given 400% credit to TSPA/ISI for helping to get Bin Laden, expressed his trust in Pakistan to guarantee the safety of the West from terrorist attacks, and withdrawn from Afghanistan... handing over the whole region to Pakistan's control as you describe.

Pakistan would have been delighted to kick India out of Afghanistan and dominate Afghanistan via the Haqqanis, plus use the LeT against India... all in exchange for guaranteeing that there would be no more terrorist attacks out of Afghanistan against white people.

So why isn't this already the case? I have no doubt that the US would love to be able to do this. But why haven't they been able to?

parsuram
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 31 May 2002 11:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 04 Oct 2011 03:59

CRamS: The only problem with what you suggest as the US end game is just this: The US washes its hands off of all of central asia, effectively loosing to the PRCees. I am not so sure that the US, even with much diminished hubris, is willing to write off a vast chunck of Eurasia, and, not to mention, greatly empowering the islamic terrorist movement against western civilization in the process. Combined with a pull back from Iraq, the consequences for the US & the west will be disasterous. I do not think the US is willing to loose all control of events in this critical region of the world. For all practical purposes, for the next 50-100 years or so, whoever controls Eurasia, controls the direction the world evolves. Even if it means an entant with the Russians, the US will work to have a finger in central asia, and a hold of sorts on the islamic terror movement. Walking away from Afghanistan is not so simple as it seems.

Dipanker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3021
Joined: 14 May 2002 11:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dipanker » 04 Oct 2011 04:40

Right now Obama's main concern is getting reelected. So he not going to make any risky move whatsoever, i.e. to attack Pakistan or withdraw from Afghanistan lock stock and barrel. He will play cautious, and after the election it does not matter to him anyway. He has been an ineffective president and will remain so in his second term too.

Rangudu
BRFite
Posts: 1751
Joined: 03 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rangudu » 04 Oct 2011 05:02

Simplistic models based on reductionism will never explain the real world satisfactorily. The fact is that the weight of opinion within US powerbrokers is to win in Afghanistan, with a small but powerful minority wanting to cut and run at all costs. There is no deal with TSP nor is there one in the offing. By saying that the match is fixed, it makes it easier to throw up your hands and walk away. The real challenge is in finding ways to move forward.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 04 Oct 2011 05:23

arun wrote:X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

It is not without a reason that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the Worlds only “IEDological Muslim State” :wink: :

Majority of IEDs are traced to Pakistan


From June through August, U.S. troops detected or were hit by 5,088 improvised explosive devices (IEDs), the most for any three-month period since the war began in 2001.

Those bombs killed 63 troops and wounded 1,234, Defense Department records show.

More than 80% of the IEDs are homemade explosives using calcium ammonium nitrate fertilizer produced in Pakistan, said Navy Capt. Douglas Borrebach, deputy director for resources and requirements at the Pentagon's Joint IED Defeat Organization.

"The border is a sieve," Borrebach said. "You can do your checkpoints, but that's not going to help stem the supply."


92 days, 5088 bombs. That is 2 bombs an hour

Made in Pakistan

Choking off the source of fertilizer is critical, Borrebach said. "How do we work with Pakistan to be able to reduce the amount of calcium ammonium nitrate coming across the border?" he said.


Let me guess:

"Send in the Marines"
"Rolling Thunder - carpet bomb 'em"
"Nuke 'em"
"Send in Stealth fighters"

:oops: ooops - sorry that won't be "working with Pakis" would it?
Last edited by shiv on 04 Oct 2011 05:26, edited 1 time in total.

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3680
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rudradev » 04 Oct 2011 05:25

Rangudu wrote:The fact is that the weight of opinion within US powerbrokers is to win in Afghanistan, with a small but powerful minority wanting to cut and run at all costs.

...The real challenge is in finding ways to move forward.


Yes, but what is the consensus among US powerbrokers as to what it means to win in Afghanistan? What does this victory look like? Or is it simply endurance, staying the course for as long as it takes until the right opportunities and conditions can be made to present themselves?

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21195
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 04 Oct 2011 05:28

Indian wrestler beats Pakistan counterpart
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/spor ... 210252.cms
KATRA (J&K): India's Joginder Kumar won the 7th Mission Dosti International Indian Style wrestling title at jam packed Vivekanand Sports Stadium by defeating his Pakistani rival Zaman Anwar in the final bout on Sunday. The wrestling championship was organized as a part of Navratra Festival by the J&K Indian Style Wrestling Association with the active support of Shri Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine Board (SMVDSB), J&, Jammu and Kashmir Police, Navratra Festival Committee, Katra Municipal Committee, District Administration and local people of Katra.


...
It took SDRE Joginder just 23 seconds to defeat his TFTA opponent and receive a cash prize of Rs 61000 while Rs 41000 was given to Zaman Anwar by the ...

Rangudu
BRFite
Posts: 1751
Joined: 03 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rangudu » 04 Oct 2011 05:50

Rudradev,

What most US career policy makers know is that if they cut and run now, they will have to come back later with a lot of regrets. As long as a spoor of Al Qaeda remains there, US cannot simply decide to pack up and leave Afghanistan no matter what the politicians say. BTW, I just saw this

the top U.S. general in Afghanistan says that the U.S. troops will remain there for a "long time," likely far beyond a planned 2014 handover of security responsiblity.


The only question is how many US troops will remain, what assets remain etc. That the US will have a sizable footprint in Afghanistan indefinitely is a given.

Karna_A
BRFite
Posts: 432
Joined: 28 Dec 2008 03:35

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Karna_A » 04 Oct 2011 05:57

Mr. Fai wanted to become a Deep Throat. His wishes are surely going to be granted in a Federal Prison.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... /246000/1/

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Oct 2011 06:39

Rangudu wrote:Simplistic models based on reductionism will never explain the real world satisfactorily. The fact is that the weight of opinion within US powerbrokers is to win in Afghanistan, with a small but powerful minority wanting to cut and run at all costs. There is no deal with TSP nor is there one in the offing. By saying that the match is fixed, it makes it easier to throw up your hands and walk away. The real challenge is in finding ways to move forward.


+1. Not too many MKBs in USA

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55332
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2011 06:44

More importantly they don't want Vietnam malaise to set in in case of having to leave Af-Pak unfinished. I said that in Nov 2009 in my analysis before Ombaba speech.

viewtopic.php?p=768001#p768001

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5248
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Oct 2011 06:52

Rangudu wrote:Rudradev,

What most US career policy makers know is that if they cut and run now, they will have to come back later with a lot of regrets. As long as a spoor of Al Qaeda remains there, US cannot simply decide to pack up and leave Afghanistan no matter what the politicians say. BTW, I just saw this

the top U.S. general in Afghanistan says that the U.S. troops will remain there for a "long time," likely far beyond a planned 2014 handover of security responsiblity.


The only question is how many US troops will remain, what assets remain etc. That the US will have a sizable footprint in Afghanistan indefinitely is a given.
RD: Exactly what I said in the other thread. My estimate is my lifetime is the period and I am still young :) At least, I insist. Now, read the above and translate what that means to US engagement in TSP, that status of TSPA and how India will have to play the game.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2011 06:55



Excerpted comment of Afghan President Hamid Karzai on the Islamic Terrorist fomenting ways of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

"Despite all destructions, calamities and problems, faced by both our country and Pakistan, a double-standard game and [the use of] terrorism as a tool continued.

"The Pakistan Islamic government has not co-operated with us to ensure peace and security in Afghanistan, which is disappointing for us."

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21195
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 04 Oct 2011 07:04

Paki are Turks

Islam's Uninterrupted History of Forced Conversions

Days ago in Pakistan, two Christian men were severely beaten with iron rods and left for dead by a group of Muslims, simply because they refused to convert to Islam. According to Compass Direct News, they were returning from a church service when they were accosted by six Muslims. After they discovered they were Christian, the Muslims
then started questioning them about their faith and later tried to force them to recite the Kalma [Islamic conversion creed, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger"] and become Muslims, telling them that this was the only way they could live peacefully in the city. They also offered monetary incentives and "protection" to Ishfaq and Naeem [the Christians], but the two refused to renounce Christianity.
"After cajoling the two Christians for some time," the Muslims pretended to go away, only to ram their car into the Christians: "The Muslims [then] got out of the car armed with iron rods and attacked Ishfaq and Naeem, shouting that they should either recite the Kalma or be prepared to die…severely beating[ing] the two Christians, fracturing Ishfaq Munawar's jaw and breaking five teeth, and seriously injuring Masih…. [T]he two Christians fell unconscious, and the young Muslim men left assuming they had killed them."
Contrast this contemporary account with the following anecdote from some 500 years past (excerpted from Witnesses for Christ, pgs.62-64):
In the year 1522, two Christian brothers in Ottoman Egypt were denounced by local Muslims "mostly out of jealousy and envy"; so the emir arrested them and "began flattering them and asking questions about their faith." The brothers made it clear that they were firm adherents of Christianity. "The Muslims in the audience became enraged with the brothers when they heard their answers, and they began screaming and demanding they must become Muslims." The brothers responded by refusing to "deny the faith we received from our forefathers, but we will remain unshaken and very firm in it until the end."
The Muslim judge deciding their case told the Christian brothers that if they simply said the Kalma and embraced Islam, they "would be given many honors and much glory"; otherwise, they would die. At that point, the brothers' mother came to support them, but "when the Muslims in court noticed her, they fell upon her, tore her clothing, and gave her a thorough beating."
After rebuking them for their savagery, the brothers reaffirmed that they would never deny Christianity for Islam, adding "behold our necks, do what you wish, but do it quickly."
Hearing this, one of the Muslims in the audience became so angry that he took out a knife and stabbed Kyrmidoles [one brother] in the chest, while someone else kicked him as hard as possible, and another dropped a large stone on his head. Finally, they plucked out his eyes. Thus Kyrmidoles died. As for Gabriel [his brother] they threw him to the ground and one of the soldiers severed his right shoulder and then proceeded and cut off his head.
Now, consider the near identical patterns in the two accounts, separated by half a millennium

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2011 07:13

X Posted from the Pakistani Economic Stress Watch thread.

Load Shedding induced riots in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Violent protests against loadshedding enter second day

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21195
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 04 Oct 2011 07:22

Poaks themselves are the result of Load shedding by Arabs , Turks and Irani etc. Why are they protesting this new load shedding? Just take the historical perpective and enjoy the new era or Poak making .

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Singha » 04 Oct 2011 07:47

maybe the US Plan is to withdraw the conventional elements of the US army and ISAF, now strung out all over the place, whose resupply costs a lot.
this role would be taken over by the new afghan national army and a collection of pro-Kabul warlord militias.

the JSOC units would very much remain in place in some centers like kabul, kandahar, jalalabad and so would the predator units and SOAR units to support the mission. these are the assets with the highest chances of actively coming across pakiban and taking them out...the most +ve Pk ratio.

shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2201
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shravan » 04 Oct 2011 07:51

Gun attack at bus kills 12 in Akhtarabad, Quetta

AKHTARABAD: At least 12 people have been reportedly butchered while four others sustained injuries amid a brazen attack on a passenger bus by unidentified gunmen in Akhtrabad locality of Quetta, SAMAA reported Tuesday morning.


Airavat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2326
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31
Location: dishum-bishum
Contact:

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Airavat » 04 Oct 2011 08:21

Mitt Romney's "tough" talk on Pakistan
“It’s pretty straightforward to say, ‘Listen guys, you can’t play both sides of this game. You’ve got to decide if you’re with us or with them,’” Romney said during a campaign stop. “’If you’re with them, that will have a very significant consequence :mrgreen: . If you’re with us, that’s very good thing.’”

In 2007, Romney was critical of then-Democratic candidate Barack Obama’s support for military action inside Pakistan’s borders in some cases. Relying largely on drone attacks, Obama has pursued the policy as president, inside Pakistan and elsewhere. Romney and other Republican presidential candidates last week praised the Obama administration’s killing of a top al-Qaida operative inside Yemen.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby arun » 04 Oct 2011 08:26

shravan wrote:Gun attack at bus kills 12 in Akhtarabad, Quetta

AKHTARABAD: At least 12 people have been reportedly butchered while four others sustained injuries amid a brazen attack on a passenger bus by unidentified gunmen in Akhtrabad locality of Quetta, SAMAA reported Tuesday morning.



A link to go with the story.

Further this appears to be an act of intra-Mohammadden violence with members of the minority Shia / Shiite sect being the target.

For a self-claimed Islamic Republic, IEDological Muslim State and Safe Haven for the Mohammaddens of the Indian Sub-Continent, Pakistan has a grotesquely high level of intra-Mohammadden violence fuelled by differing interpretations of Mohammaddenism:

Gunmen kill 12 Shiite Muslims in Pakistan

parsuram
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 31 May 2002 11:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 04 Oct 2011 10:14

Rangudu wrote:Rudradev,

What most US career policy makers know is that if they cut and run now, they will have to come back later with a lot of regrets. As long as a spoor of Al Qaeda remains there, US cannot simply decide to pack up and leave Afghanistan no matter what the politicians say. BTW, I just saw this

the top U.S. general in Afghanistan says that the U.S. troops will remain there for a "long time," likely far beyond a planned 2014 handover of security responsiblity.


The only question is how many US troops will remain, what assets remain etc. That the US will have a sizable footprint in Afghanistan indefinitely is a given.


R-
This goes far beyond just keeping Afghanistan free of any "Al Qaida". It is a geopolitical necessicity for the US to have a toe hold at the gate to central asia. Outside of Afghanistan, there is none available to the US. The paki is stupid. He thinks he is irreplaceable because he holds geographical cards. He is nuts, because it also makes him very vulnerable. The paki keeps making the kinds of dumb mistakes he is making and it is likely he will find himself quite replacable. The stakes are incredibly high, and the paki isnt worth so much as a tram ticket compared to what is at stake. The paki just doesnt get it, and will not, until it is too late for him.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 04 Oct 2011 10:26

I doubt what is happening today has little to do with the great game of the last century. So may be a dumb question here:

The stakes are incredibly high, and the paki isnt worth so much as a tram ticket compared to what is at stake.


What exactly are the stakes here?

My take is that the vital stake here is a Terror network with nukes emanating from the volatile region if left alone.

Paki take is this is some great game on and the Paki is playing an additional game of Strategic depth vis a vis India and defeating superpowers all around.

It's thus important also to define what the great stake here is for everyone around.

chilarai
BRFite
Posts: 579
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby chilarai » 04 Oct 2011 10:46

shravan wrote:Gun attack at bus kills 12 in Akhtarabad, Quetta

AKHTARABAD: At least 12 people have been reportedly butchered while four others sustained injuries amid a brazen attack on a passenger bus by unidentified gunmen in Akhtrabad locality of Quetta, SAMAA reported Tuesday morning.



How do such things work in pakland ? Shias travel separately in their own buses with bulls eye drawn on them ?

Nandu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2195
Joined: 08 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Nandu » 04 Oct 2011 11:34

Karna_A wrote:Mr. Fai wanted to become a Deep Throat. His wishes are surely going to be granted in a Federal Prison.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... /246000/1/

What's new and interesting to me from that article is the extent of Saudi funding of and influence over Fai.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7068
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Anujan » 04 Oct 2011 11:36

Carl wrote:Ahmed Rashid on BBC:
Ten years of meltdown in Pakistan


"War on terror costed Pakistan 500,000 Trilliong bajillion gajillion dollahs!!!!" is utter BS.

Pakistan's economy was in pakistan as far back as 1997. Realizing this Nawaz stretched an olive branch to ABV. Then came the Nuke tests and Kargil and Pakistan's economy was swirling in a flushed pakistan. Then 9/11 happened and Mush got as much as 50 billion $ in loans either waived, rescheduled or renogiated in favorable terms. Then came the GOAT injection of money. Pakistan spent all that buying shiny toys, assuming that GOAT money will always come. But Unkil is applying the squeeze now.

Now everything has dried up and Pakistan's economy is back in the pakistan as it was on September 10, 2001. Essentially Pakistan's economy today is as it was 10 years back, with the inevitable delayed by 10 years due to western largess. It has nothing to do with GOAT
Last edited by Anujan on 04 Oct 2011 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12715
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Oct 2011 11:38

Anujan wrote:
Carl wrote:Ahmed Rashid on BBC:
Ten years of meltdown in Pakistan


"War on terror costed Pakistan 500,000 Trilliong bajillion gajillion dollahs!!!!" is utter BS.
Pakistan's economy was in pakistan as far back as 1997. Realizing this Nawaz stretched an olive branch to ABV. Then came the Nuke tests and Kargil and Pakistan's economy was swirling in a flushed pakistan. Then 9/11 happened and Mush got as much as 50 billion $ in loans either waived, rescheduled or renogiated in favorable terms. Then came the GOAT injection of money. Pakistan spent all that buying shiny toys, assuming that GOAT money will always come. But Unkil is applying the squeeze now.

Now everything has dried up and Pakistan's economy is back in the pakistan as it was on September 10, 2001.

Essentially Pakistan's economy today is as it was 10 years back, with the inevitable delayed by 10 years due to western largess. It has nothing to do with GOAT


SO does that mean Pakistan needs to orchestrate anther 9/11 like they did 10 years ago?

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2065
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RCase » 04 Oct 2011 11:51

AKHTARABAD: At least 12 people have been reportedly butchered while four others sustained injuries amid a brazen attack on a passenger bus by unidentified gunmen in Akhtrabad locality of Quetta, SAMAA reported Tuesday morning.



How do such things work in pakland ? Shias travel separately in their own buses with bulls eye drawn on them ?[/quote]

May be there is a special shite lungi test that we are unaware of. :D

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16003
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 04 Oct 2011 11:56

On Sep 10, 2001, Begum Pakistana was in dire straits, so Begum Pakistana poisoned an old aashiq and told him she will help him to recuperate. The old aashiq bought the story. After 10 years the aashiq found out, that Begum Pakistana was only making an ass out of him. So no more nazrana!

Pakistan still has 2½ other aashiqs. So there are still more 9/11s that Begum Pakistana can undertake! A major attack on Saudi Arabia or China could force these aashiqs to look for cooperation from TSPA. But they know what happened to AmirKhan. So Begum Pakistana would have trust issues with the other two, who must now be wiser. The game cannot be played in the same way! It was a one-time "Get-Out-Of-Jail Free" card!

svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4725
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svenkat » 04 Oct 2011 12:02

harbans wrote:What exactly are the stakes here?


There are atleast three major stakes.
1)Containment of India.India does not fall within the ambit of western christist 'civilisation'.Inevitably,India will be the leader in a wide arc from Mespotomia to SE,if left unchecked.
2)Containment of Iran.This is not such a big issue,only relevant until the mullahs hold on in Teheran.
3)Containment of Russia.The fear of Russia is the fear of Orthodoxy from a Western view.
4)US economic/strategic interests resulting from the above containment.

The US has inherited the mantle of West from Greece,Rome,Latin christendom and the British Empire.

The body bags of Americans is pin pricks from a Western view.The TSPA is the lynch pin for Western interference.From the western view,TSPA is very sweet and reasonable.And the jihadis are manageable,but for the intransigence of India on Kashmir.The TSPA is turning rogue because of India.Forget Pakistani perfidy in Afghanisthan.

The West has shed crocodile tears in Sudan,East Timor,Poland,Libya.Where is the same concern for Afghanisthan where pakis are playing havoc.The US/West cares two hoots for human rights in any abstract or universal sense.

But at the same time,americans know India will not budge an inch in Kashmir on the soverignity issue.

Their best bet was a weak BJP.But BJP was not good enough for the West,given their position on Hindu nationalism.The Congress was to their liking given its penchant for sops to muslims/christians and their 'sikularness' but the Congress was a past master in chai-biskoot sessions.

The Americans are paralysed.Despite their mouthpieces from NYT to Hillary blowing hot and cold on Pakistan,Kashmir etc,they know they have hit a road block.

The americans have to do a rethink on India.Will they be up to it? Can the US see beyond its christist western baggage?Can it realise that its interests have to be re evaluated given the Chinese ascendancy.Can it see that Indias rise cannot be checked and that Porkistan will drag US down to Hell? Will it realise that a JDAM in London or Washington is a very real possibility if it continues to mollycoddle pakhanastan.

Ramanaji,I have edited the posts,but one cannot ignore the religious angle,IMVHO.
Last edited by svenkat on 04 Oct 2011 21:40, edited 4 times in total.

RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2065
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RCase » 04 Oct 2011 12:07

This one looks pretty funny when the guest suddenly goes ballistic on the host. He ends up walking out of the show! Even the other guest doesn't seem to enjoy the questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSRQlugd2BA&NR=1

Can some one help me understand why the old man gets all pissed off?

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 04 Oct 2011 12:24

There are atleast three major stakes.
1)Containment of India.India does not fall within the ambit of white christist 'civilisation'.Inevitably,India will be the leader in a wide arc from Mespotomia to SE,if left unchecked.
2)Containment of Iran.This is not such a big issue,only relevant until the mullahs hold on in Teheran.
3)Containment of Russia.The fear of Russia is the fear of Orthodoxy from a Western view.
4)US economic/strategic interests resulting from the above containment.


With all due respect sir, none of these i believe are reasons for US involvement in Afghanistan. US was pure event driven. After 'driving' the Soviets out of Afghanistan, the US put key regimes in Central Asia under sanctions and allowed the Taliban to function, AQ to settle. Despite nit picks of the US embassy bombings, USS Cole attack, US involvement in Pakistan and Afghanistan remained close to zilch. It was 911 and the realization that AQ and Talibs were so near Paki nuclear weapons, that the involvement deepened. Even that involvement was diverted to a settling scores about family affairs in Iraq. Neither was the war in Iraq due to containing Iran. Russia is not going to be contained through Afghanistan. Russians evince little to no interests stave getting worried about Jihadization of the Caucacus. Why is it hard to believe that events actually have driven major Geo-political decisions in the near past.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7052
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby JE Menon » 04 Oct 2011 12:26

>>Short of someone aiding Jihadis big time, there is no way Afganisthan is going become another launch pad for a 9/11 type attack. And TSP can guarantee that. With its proxies in power in Afganisthan, they will have everybody there by their b@lls. So Americans have no issue handing over Afganisthan to TSP in return for no terror on whites. The payoff being India out of Afganistan and TSP gets to keep LeT. A diabolical bargain, but not a bad one from US PoV.

Well depends on how you look at it. Explain, for instance, how the situation described above is different from what it was on 9/10. Clearly, 9/11 put paid to that assumption.

It is not advisable to take either the Americans or the Indians as utter morons. Pakistan is not going to win this one. It is only a question of how it chooses to lose. It can do so wisely and survive, even thrive. Or it can declare victory and die slowly.

Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7068
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Anujan » 04 Oct 2011 12:50

Apparently the Judge who gave the death verdict to Qadri has gone on leave due to urgent personal issues and is nowhere to be seen.

Narad
BRFite
Posts: 859
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 15:15

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Narad » 04 Oct 2011 12:59

Cost of being a Shia Muslim in pakistan - The Citadel of Islam, the promised land for all the Muslims of Indian subcontinent.

ImageImage

RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16003
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 04 Oct 2011 13:08

RCase wrote:This one looks pretty funny when the guest suddenly goes ballistic on the host. He ends up walking out of the show! Even the other guest doesn't seem to enjoy the questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSRQlugd2BA&NR=1

Can some one help me understand why the old man gets all pissed off?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The old man tried to advocate a theory that America has colonized Pakistan indirectly through its agents. His second point was that Zia ul-Haq had no business doing war with Soviet forces in Afghanistan, as American stooge!

The moderator is pushing the old man to name names and wants details on his theory! This pisses off the old man as he feels he is not being allowed to use his own words to describe the situation and is being forced to call names, and he retorts that he is too clever to fall into the trap!

Every clarification that the moderator requests just angers the old man even more!

:rotfl:

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10117
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby sum » 04 Oct 2011 13:08

Anujan wrote:Apparently the Judge who gave the death verdict to Qadri has gone on leave due to urgent personal issues and is nowhere to be seen.

Did they knowingly choose a Shia judge to ensure that the TSP folks can conveniently pin it on the Shia heretic if things come to a boil due to the judgement?

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby krishnan » 04 Oct 2011 13:08


RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16003
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 04 Oct 2011 13:09

The Shi'a look like Hazaras from Afghanistan!


parsuram
BRFite
Posts: 366
Joined: 31 May 2002 11:31

Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 04 Oct 2011 13:52

harbans: At stake is the vast energy and mineral resources of central asia, then, the untapped potential of all of russian Siberia - stretching north all the way to a soon to be an open arctic ocean as a major transportation channel. russia, with falling population and vast lands is going to be a magnate for new settlement - a new version of the American west. Those are the the sum of the stakes that are up for grab, and the only access to all that for the US is now Afghanistan. Russia is hanging on with difficulty, trying to ignore aggressive illegal chinese settlement on its territories, and chinese oil, gas pipelines going east sucking the energy for nickels and dimes.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EswarPrakash, Rishi_Tri and 56 guests