Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 07:02

An India comparison is relevant here. The Indians railways were deliberately aimed at being affordable mass public transport for mango Indians. I do not condone decrepit systems or accidents but the extreme "janata-ness" of the Indian railways of the 50s to the 70s and even 80s was a result of constant "cheap" expansion to provide a means of people transport. Cheap people transport also means national integration, believe it or not. But I digress. But for transport of goods, roads are now beginning to give the railways a run for their money. And like AC/DC bisexuality Agnis can go by rail or road. :P

The other thing I want to look at is the state of Pakistan roads. I wonder how many developed roads they have apart from their much praised and much hooted "motorways" which are just one North South trunk as far as I know. Pakistan's motorways are hardly a "network" with roads off the motorways being bad. But I will get back with info on this whether I am wrong or right.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2011 07:03

http://www.eaglespeak.us/2011/10/somali ... -near.html
Somali Pirates: Suspicious Activity Near Pakistan
NSC4: Warning- Suspicious Activity 14/10/2011 17:45 2429N 06347E Suspicious Activity

Check the map . News wont say if Somali Pirate was seen either incoming or getting out after being trained by Paki Navy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 15 Oct 2011 07:18

shiv ji: st sri aakal.

I promiss, this is my last word on this subject between us. I firmly am of the opinion that there are not enough people in the paki who are willing to accept the reduction of the paki down to the level of a somalia - even a nuke armed somalia. The paki is not prepared to have its beautiful face desicrated by an American air offensive of the shock-'n-awe variety. They know too well the end result of such an offensive, and they will not bear, the owners of the paki will not bear to have their beloved paki reduced to - even disfigured slightly to, no - even have the appearance of being disfigued to what a passing encounter with shock-'n-awe will produce as a result. The paki will back off entirely. As quietly and discretely as possible, but openly and in public if necessary, to avoid any such fate. Let the US make all the decisive moves to bring about that consequence to the paki's sustained terror offensive against the world (more particularly against the US/NATO combine). Transfer the necessary carrier group(s) to location(s) in the arabian sea. Bring in the necessary air power and ordinance into Afghanistan air bases, using an air corridor thru balochistan (invoking relevent UNSC resolutions), begin random boarding of shipping inbound to the paki's ports, and similar offensive postures, and that should be enough for the paki. You say that comparison with the serbs was not apropreate, and you are right. The Serbs have far more integrity and spirit than the paki will ever have. the serbs had over a thousand years of history they were fighting for - but by totally unacceptable means. The paki will not fight - just spew some imaginary thousand years of history, that it brags about. So at the clear evidence that shock-n'-awe is coming, it will likely fold, preceded by escallating his rhetoric to the highest level it can, but, on seeing that its rhetoric has no effect, that US actions are aimed at decimating their rat hole (a rat hole with nukes, no less), it will fold to protect what it has, planning backstabbing operations to get even. The paki will never take on a more superior force head on, not even the Indians, preferring underhanded jehaadi methods, so, one last time, the paki will fold completely in face of any imminent US head on shock-n'-awe offensive.
Last edited by parsuram on 15 Oct 2011 08:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Lilo » 15 Oct 2011 07:21



^^ when did pakis covert to counting using millions billions and gazillions ...?
what happened to good ole crores and lakhs.

side effects of too much american aid ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 15 Oct 2011 08:09

pgbhat wrote:And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.


This naive BS stands apart from an otherwise reasonable article from Riedel. Does he really believe that the so called "Kashmir conflct" is about border control and prisoners?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 15 Oct 2011 08:25

Lilo wrote:


^^ when did pakis covert to counting using millions billions and gazillions ...?
what happened to good ole crores and lakhs.

side effects of too much american aid ?


^^^^^^
Know what is hilarious about this - particularly as it goes to the paki mind - 1 billion = 100 crores =...drum roll please...1 arab :rotfl: :rotfl: ... and guess who wants to be more arab than the arabs - the paki. And the paki chooses the kafir "billion" over the number for the faithful - arab. Ironic. ironic. and, ofcourse, :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2011 09:02

Alhamdulillah ,
Paki railways sytem is already on par with holy Arabia of Saud. Now wait for the landscape to resemble the holy sand.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 09:03

parsuram wrote:shiv ji: st sri aakal.

I promiss, this is my last word on this subject between us. I firmly am of the opinion that there are not enough people in the paki who are willing to accept the reduction of the paki down to the level of a somalia - even a nuke armed somalia. The paki is not prepared to have its beautiful face desicrated by an American air offensive of the shock-'n-awe variety. They know too well the end result of such an offensive, and they will not bear, the owners of the paki will not bear to have their beloved paki reduced to - even disfigured slightly to, no - even have the appearance of being disfigued to what a passing encounter with shock-'n-awe will produce as a result. The paki will back off entirely.



Parsuram, we have no difference of opinion about the ability of the Paki ruling establishment and military to back down, but I think you have missed the point I am trying to make. I will try again.

The Paki military and elite have not been stupid. If you remove them Pakistan is nothing. Zero. It is Somalia onlee. The military and elite have ensured that their country, minus them, is no more than Somalia. That is why they are telling the US "You need to spare us. If you remove us this country is nothing". They are ready to back down and let the US do anything with the warning that the US can touch anyone to anything in Pakistan as long as it spares them.

Your scenario assumes that Pakistan is one united entity where all Pakis have a united goal. That is wrong. Pakistan is not one united entity. It is a failed and fragemented entity held in control by the army and establishment that only looks for its own survival . If that establishment/military goes what will be left is like Somalia onlee. I would like to see a Somaila like Pakistan next door. The US and GoI do not want that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 09:06

Prem wrote:Alhamdulillah ,
Paki railways sytem is already on par with holy Arabia of Saud. Now wait for the landscape to resemble the holy sand.


Holy L&
Holy S&
Holy G&

& more..

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 15 Oct 2011 09:12

Pakistan:

Roadways:

total: 260,760 km
country comparison to the world: 20
paved: 180,910 km (includes 711 km of expressways)
unpaved: 79,850 km (2010)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/pk.html

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shravan » 15 Oct 2011 09:14

US missiles kill 3 in northwest Pakistan

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan — Pakistani intelligence officials say drone-fired U.S. missiles have hit a compound near the Afghan border, killing at least three militants.

The two officials say some suspects were also wounded in early Saturday's attack in South Waziristan.

They say those killed were the fighters of Maulvi Nazir, a local militant commander who is accused of working with Taliban and al-Qaida to direct cross-border attacks.

The officials spoke on anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to media on record.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rangudu » 15 Oct 2011 09:17

Hmm, other than going after Miramshah directly, it looks like Unkil is hitting ISI-stooges like Maulvi Nazir. So Hafiz Gul Bahadur is next.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2011 09:19

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\10\15\story_15-10-2011_pg1_1
Pakistan, India finalise liberal visa agreement

Draft text provides for hassle-free multiple-entry visa procedure for businessmen from either country

* Travellers from both countries will be permitted to visit more than three destinations

NEW DELHI: A two-day meeting of Joint Working Group of Pakistan and India concluded here on Friday, with and agreement on firming up of a draft of their bilateral visa agreement that will liberalise travel between the two countries. The meeting, which was held to examine the modalities for streamlining visa procedures and to finalise the draft of the new Bilateral Visa Agreement, came out with the accord. The agreement seeks to ease travel for the nationals of the two nations who desire to visit the other country, said a joint press statement issued by the two sides after the second meeting of the Working Group.The two sides finalised the draft text of the agreement, which would be submitted to the respective governments for obtaining necessary approvals in order to ratify it. The meeting was a follow-up on the deliberations held in the first meeting of the Joint Working Group in Islamabad from June 2-3 this year.It was held in pursuance of the decision taken during the India-Pakistan home/interior secretary-level talks held in New Delhi on 28-29 March 2011. The Indian delegation was led by Anil Goswami, Additional Secretary (Foreigners), Ministry of Home Affairs while the Pakistan delegation was led by Ministry of Interior Additional Secretary Nasar Hayat. The discussions were held in a friendly and cordial atmosphe

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Prem » 15 Oct 2011 09:36

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-news ... ak-endgame
US agenda for AfPak endgame
Now what is this right direction? For an answer, first let us see what the US Defence Secretary and former Chief of the CIA, Leon Panetta, told a Congressional panel on Thursday. He identified Pakistan as one of the areas, which pose “real threats” to the US and its interests. Two days earlier while speaking at the Wooden Wilson Centre in Washington, he revealed that the United States was waging a war in Pakistan against the militants (meaning covert US operations). Here one may refer to a report attributed to the US Director of National Intelligence that in rebuilding ties, Islamabad had stopped demanding an end to the drone attacks carried out in north-western Pakistan. (Pakistan Foreign Office has yet to react to this report.)
But reverting to Hillary’s statement, this is how she looks at the larger perspective: “…we’re for opening up borders so that Afghans, Pakistanis, Uzbeks, and others can trade and make money and get into the Indian market as well. So we put forward this vision of the New Silk Road, which we are working very hard on and which there has been a great positive response to in the region. So there’s a lot that we’re moving simultaneously, as we obviously begin to drawdown our troops, as we abide by the schedule set out at the NATO summit at Lisbon, and as we explore with the Afghans what our strategic partnership will be after 2014.”
This strategic vision is intended to be made a reality on the basis of three planned international conferences. The first one in Istanbul on November 2 where the regional construct will be unveiled. It will relate to the steps to be taken in regard to the 2014 “transition”. The second conference shall be the “Bonn + 10” to be held on December 5 and co-chaired by Afghanistan and Germany. It will be followed by a NATO Summit (plus G-8 countries) at Chicago in May 2012. A draft Istanbul Declaration has already been circulated. This declaration spells out a regional set-up consisting of 14 States of South Asia, Central Asia, Euro Asia and the Middle East with the USA, AfPak and India to be the supporters of this group. There will also be a monitoring and enforcement mechanism. According to Dr Maliha Lodhi, the Istanbul document presumes that the internal requirements for stability (in Afghanistan) can be addressed “externally” through a regional initiative. Here, one may also keep in view the recent strategic agreement signed by India and Afghanistan, which unfolds a part of the US plan to help India play a predominant role in the war-torn country. President Hamid Karzai during his visit to New Delhi hailed India as a “great friend”. It has already invested considerably in Afghanistan’s economic development. Now, inter alia, it will be adding substantially to its hold on the security forces by acquiring the task of providing training to the Afghan military officers. The increasing influence of India in Afghanistan - backed as it is by the USA - is bound to add to Pakistan’s worries on both sides of its borders.
First comes the Begging Bowl and then bragging howl of owl
There is much that Pakistan can talk about by way of reminding the United States to correct its behaviour. While it has gone all-out to appease and please India, entering into long-term economic and defence partnership deals, including the nuclear bonanza, it has been reluctant to provide even limited trade facilities or enter into an investment agreement with Pakistan. The way it thrust the comparatively small aid package on Pakistan in the shape of a condition-ridden legislation (and how only a fraction of the money has been actually released) is a stark demonstration of the way it has been treating usIt is good that we are beginning to realise that we can no longer continue to play the role of second rate mercenaries. Kayani rightly told Grossman and the ISAF Chief that Pakistan would not allow itself to be pushed to do things against its own interests and plans. It is also time Islamabad tells Washington not to godfather India’s unacceptable role in Afghanistan.The USA and its Western and Indian allies have already charted a course for this region. Pakistan needs to hold consultation with China, Turkey and Iran to neutralise the harmful parts of the envisaged strategic architecture

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rohit_K » 15 Oct 2011 09:38

shiv wrote:The other thing I want to look at is the state of Pakistan roads. I wonder how many developed roads they have apart from their much praised and much hooted "motorways" which are just one North South trunk as far as I know. Pakistan's motorways are hardly a "network" with roads off the motorways being bad. But I will get back with info on this whether I am wrong or right.


A minor correction. There is no North-South motorway in place. The motorways they've built so far are infact a network of quality roads with proper/dedicated highway policing.

Motorways built:

1. M1 - Islamabad-Peshwar which is a cont. of M2 - pic
2. M2 - Lahore-Islamabad - pic
3. M3 - Pindi Bhattian (on M2) to Faisalabad - pic

Only expressway connecting cities:
1. Islamabad-Murree expressway - pic - this is going to be extended to Muzaffarabad in PoK

^All 4 of these are in Pakjab. The rest of the nation only gets 2-4 lane unmaintained highways.

But to be fair, Pakistan has actually a pretty good network of national highways, even if their people have to eat grass. N5 is a 4 lane divided highway (NHDP standard) which runs from Peshawar to Rawalpindi to Lahore to Hyderabad to Karachi. Infact Hyderabad and Karachi have another highway - the dilapidated "Super Highway" (mentioned in a post on the previous page) that connects them. This one was built during Ayub's rule.

Pakistanis on wikipedia and google maps have cleverly labelled the Super Highway and the 2 lane Ratodero (interior Sindh) to Gwadar highways as motorways though :rotfl: These roads are in no way upto motorway standards.

If people want, I can expand more on highways and perhaps also talk about city road infra.
Last edited by Rohit_K on 15 Oct 2011 09:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Amber G. » 15 Oct 2011 09:55

Sorry if posted before (I don't see it but please delete it if it is there)...

A very nice op-ed in NY Times written by none other than Bruce Riedel

Bruce Riedel led a policy review for President Obama on Pakistan and Afghanistan when he first got into office.. etc...
A New Pakistan Policy: Containment

Posting in full, for the record:
A New Pakistan Policy: Containment
By BRUCE O. RIEDEL
Washington

AMERICA needs a new policy for dealing with Pakistan. First, we must recognize that the two countries’ strategic interests are in conflict, not harmony, and will remain that way as long as Pakistan’s army controls Pakistan’s strategic policies. We must contain the Pakistani Army’s ambitions until real civilian rule returns and Pakistanis set a new direction for their foreign policy.

As Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate committee last month, Pakistan provides critical sanctuary and support to the Afghan insurgency that we are trying to suppress. Taliban leaders meet under Pakistani protection even as we try to capture or kill them.

In 2009, I led a policy review for President Obama on Pakistan and Afghanistan. At the time, Al Qaeda was operating with virtual impunity in Pakistan, and its ally Lashkar-e-Taiba had just attacked the Indian city of Mumbai and killed at least 163 people, including 6 Americans, with help from Pakistani intelligence. {There is no attempt to sugar coat it here} Under no illusions, Mr. Obama tried to improve relations with Pakistan by increasing aid and dialogue; he also expanded drone operations to fight terrorist groups that Pakistan would not fight on its own.

It was right to try engagement, but now the approach needs reshaping. We will have to persevere in Afghanistan in the face of opposition by Pakistan.

The generals who run Pakistan have not abandoned their obsession with challenging India. They tolerate terrorists at home, seek a Taliban victory in Afghanistan and are building the world’s fastest-growing nuclear arsenal. They have sidelined and intimidated civilian leaders elected in 2008. They seem to think Pakistan is invulnerable, because they control NATO’s supply line from Karachi to Kabul and have nuclear weapons.

The generals also think time is on their side — that NATO is doomed to give up in Afghanistan, leaving them free to act as they wish there. So they have concluded that the sooner America leaves, the better it will be for Pakistan. They want Americans and Europeans to believe the war is hopeless, so they encourage the Taliban and other militant groups to speed the withdrawal with spectacular attacks, like the Sept. 13 raid on the United States Embassy in Kabul, which killed 16 Afghan police officers and civilians.

It is time to move to a policy of containment, which would mean a more hostile relationship. But it should be a focused hostility, aimed not at hurting Pakistan’s people but at holding its army and intelligence branches accountable. When we learn that an officer from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, is aiding terrorism, whether in Afghanistan or India, we should put him on wanted lists, sanction him at the United Nations and, if he is dangerous enough, track him down. Putting sanctions on organizations in Pakistan has not worked in the past, but sanctioning individuals has — as the nuclear proliferator Abdul Qadeer Khan could attest.

Offering Pakistan more trade while reducing aid makes sense. When we extend traditional aid, media outlets with ties to the ISI cite the aid to weave conspiracy theories that alienate Pakistanis from us. Mr. Obama should instead announce that he is cutting tariffs on Pakistani textiles to or below the level that India and China enjoy; that would strengthen entrepreneurs and women, two groups who are outside the army’s control and who are interested in peace.

Military assistance to Pakistan should be cut deeply. Regular contacts between our officers and theirs can continue, but under no delusion that we are allies.

Osama bin Laden’s death confirmed that we can’t rely on Pakistan to take out prominent terrorists on its soil. We will still need bases in Afghanistan from which to act when we see a threat in Pakistan. But drones should be used judiciously, for very important targets.

In Afghanistan, we should not have false hopes for a political solution. We can hope that top figures among the Quetta Shura — Afghan Taliban leaders who are sheltered in Quetta, Pakistan — will be delivered to the bargaining table, but that is unlikely, since the Quetta leadership assassinated Burhanuddin Rabbani, the leader of Afghanistan’s High Peace Council and a former Afghan president, last month. The ISI will veto any Taliban peace efforts it opposes, which means any it doesn’t control. Rather than hoping for ISI help, we need to continue to build an Afghan Army that can control the insurgency with long-term NATO assistance and minimal combat troops.

Strategic dialogue with India about Pakistan is essential because it would focus the Pakistani Army’s mind. India and Pakistan are trying to improve trade and transportation links severed after they became independent in 1947, and we should encourage that. We should also increase intelligence cooperation against terrorist targets in Pakistan. And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.

America and Pakistan have had a tempestuous relationship for decades. For far too long we have banked on the Pakistani Army to protect our interests. Now we need to contain that army’s aggressive instincts, while helping those who want a progressive Pakistan and keeping up the fight against terrorism.

Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, is the author of “Deadly Embrace: Pakistan, America and the Future of the Global Jihad.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 10:10

Rohit_K wrote:
If people want, I can expand more on highways and perhaps also talk about city road infra.


Just post some maps please. The road network in Pakistan has been hyped to show what is good and what is absent cannot be shown. So I want to see what exists. Photos of 1 or 2 km of highway are always photos of the best. Photos of that which is bad are not shown. But I have read descriptions and have cites of what is bad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rohit_K » 15 Oct 2011 10:34

Shiv, the motorways I mentioned above have all been built and are of standards matching those in the West. You can easily view them on google maps or google images. As you will see, these aren't just 2-3kms of photo clicking stretches but actually quality roads that connect their Pakjabi cities. Let's give credit where it's due.

As you would know, the M2 was built with Korean expertise and maybe funding. Nawaz contracted out the service stations and bus services to Daewoo to run so that they could recover the cost.

Even though these roads are "access controlled", I've also come across blogs and forum posts of people mentioning animals roaming around on M2 that has led to many accidents.

Only the 4 roads I mentioned in my post above are of excellent quality. The rest are rotting away. Here's a list of the important rotting ones:

1. Besides the N5, Pakistan has another north-south artery (2-4 laned) called the Indus Highway - pic1, pic2, pic3 (N55) - that runs on the west side of the Indus. This is heavily gaurded by the military and people are told to not travel alone or overtake a military car/convoy. Google Maps shows a major portion of this under water if you search "mehar pakistan" on google maps.

2. RCD Highway - Regional Cooperation for Development Highway - Pic1, Pic2- 2 laner connecting Karachi to Quetta in poor shape.

Pakistan is currently expanding their motorway system as well. Work has started on M4 which will connect Faislabad to Multan. With that, all of Pakjab's main economic centers (except Sialkot) will be connected by the motorway network - Rawalpindi, Lahore, Multan, Faislabad. Then there's the Lahore ring road (60% completed - pic1, pic2) which is another 6 lane quality motorway going around the city
Last edited by Rohit_K on 15 Oct 2011 11:17, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby tejas » 15 Oct 2011 10:41

and, if he is dangerous enough, track him down


This sounds like targeted assassinations to me :mrgreen:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Lilo » 15 Oct 2011 11:24

Doubling Down on Civilian Engagement in Pakistan - How to help the country help itself -- Christine fair

For once Unfair desists from mentioning India or Kashmir in her worldbankesque prescription to sort out Pak.

Like riddal she begins by mentioning the strategic divergence between US and Pakbarian army and how that cannot be overcome.

Then aims to verbally precipitate reformation of paki parliamentarians , politics (including "voter education programs" :roll: ) , judiciary , prisons , criminal justice system , human resources , trade and whatnot.

ends by saying
Although there should be no illusions that the aforementioned suggestions will transform Pakistan over any useful time horizon -- if ever -- it is critical that Pakistan not follow the path of North Korea. North Korea is diplomatically and politically isolated without any incentive to remain within the community of nations. Instead, the United States should make every effort to creatively forge a new, bold, and sustainable civilian engagement strategy while normalizing its ties with Pakistan's military. Although democratization efforts may take a long time to bear fruit, if they ever do, one thing is clear: the most likely path toward a stable country involves empowering Pakistan's civilians to exert control over security and foreign policy. U.S. assistance to help Pakistanis do so is a high-stakes gamble worth taking.

I'd say her nation building efforts are a little late especially after 60 years of wanton existence of the pakbarian state.
US, instead of getting itself bankrupted in paki nation-building should start to use escalating measures of shock (and awe) therapy and watch pakis quickly come to heel.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Upendra » 15 Oct 2011 11:31

CRamS wrote:
pgbhat wrote:And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.


This naive BS stands apart from an otherwise reasonable article from Riedel. Does he really believe that the so called "Kashmir conflct" is about border control and prisoners?


Easing border controls will aid terrorists in easily crossing over , behead people and go back to pakistan to be honored as ghazis. This will help pakistan revive its flagging economy by spending less on the travel expenses of terrorists. This a worthwhile suggestion to consider. WKK's will enthusiastically volunteer for this exciting new beheading program. Of course for the sake of peace we have to make some sacrifice, so why not sacrifice the WKK? What do you say birathers? Shall we prepare a list of WKK volunteers to urge them to give peace a chance.

List of WKKs who should consider volunteering for Behead4Peace campaign
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt

Please suggest more names of WKK's

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ashish raval » 15 Oct 2011 11:37

Prem wrote:http://www.eaglespeak.us/2011/10/somali-pirates-suspicious-activity-near.html
Somali Pirates: Suspicious Activity Near Pakistan
NSC4: Warning- Suspicious Activity 14/10/2011 17:45 2429N 06347E Suspicious Activity

Check the map . News wont say if Somali Pirate was seen either incoming or getting out after being trained by Paki Navy.


Looks more like transfer of technology. You show how to do piracy, I provide you with all the guns you need, effing genius porks.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rohit_K » 15 Oct 2011 11:41

One thing that really bothers the TSPA is that their N5 highway which is stated to carry 75% of all commercial goods in the country and is their main N-S troop/terrorist movement road, runs just 45 kms away from int. border at the Jaisalmer bulge. The Indus highway-N55 (on the west of the Indus) is another 40 kms away. These 2 connect at Sukkur via N65.

Kashmir isn't the jugular vein of TSP. The N5 is.

See this map:
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby SSridhar » 15 Oct 2011 12:48

ramana wrote:SSridhar, I was thinking that the TSPA provides a channel/avenue for the more educated/higher IQ jihadis and those who don't make the cut become non-uniformed jihadis and cannon fodder.

Indeed so. There is also osmosis and reverse osmosis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby suryag » 15 Oct 2011 12:54

Upendraji you forgot SriSri MK Bhadra Kumar in that list, he is more than a WKK, Prashant Bhushan can be 12th man in this team

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby SSridhar » 15 Oct 2011 13:09

One reason for claiming the state of J&K was that there was not much buffer for Pakistan from India. At the same time, they have also cited their geography as convenient to quickly mount an army operation against the arch enemy because the garrisons or airbases were never far from the border.

One of the lessons that the PA learned from the Kargil Conflict is supposed to be the validation of the theory that India's mobilization would always give them enough warning time to mobilize themselves and also ask the US and the UK to intercede. It is another matter that Cold Start was devised to overcome these shortcomings. In his article, 'the 2001-2002 Standoff: A Real-time View from Islamabad', Col. (R) David Smith (a twice-serving former US military attache in Islamabad) says that the PA felt they they could deploy their two Corps from NWFP to the India borders without too much logistic hassles. Few other units had to move more than 50 Kms from their peacetime positions to wartime positions. He is also claiming that the fuel & munitions dumps created at that time closer to the border have been retained for future needs.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 13:55

Here are two excellent and detailed road maps of Pakjab and Sindh

Road connectivity does not look great apart from the motorways.
Pakjab in 2010
Sindh in 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 15 Oct 2011 14:06

Rohit_K wrote: Let's give credit where it's due.


Rohit - thanks for the info. I have no intention of not giving credit where it is due. But I also do not want to give credit where it is not due.

Over the last decade I have discovered that at least half (or more) of the information coming out of Pakistan is just plain lies.Like someone said - even the Pakistanis have forgotten when they are lying and when they are not. That is why I intend to believe nothing unless I get the info corroborated from various sources.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 15 Oct 2011 16:39

Importing locos will not solve the problem -- the Pak rot is much deeper.
ISLAMABAD (APP): Minister for Railways Haji Ghulam Ahmed Bilour on Friday informed the National Assembly that 153 trains had been suspended due to shortage of diesel and the railways had no sufficient amount for giving salaries and pension to its employees.

http://www.thefrontierpost.com/?p=67720

More:
LHWs protest against non-payment of salaries across Punjab
One Lady Health Worker died while two other fell unconscious in a protest of health workers against the non-payment of salaries in different cities of Punjab.

The protesters said that if government did not paid the salaries then they will boycott the polio vaccination campaign and dengue spray campaign staring from October 24.

Nearly 26,000 staffers of the government’s family planning and primary healthcare unit have been continuously protesting against the non-payment of their salaries...


It keeps coming:
50pc power tariff hike in 3 months pushes industry to wall

But of course, where there is all this rot, and no roti, there is always the lal topi:
Remember, we are a muslim nation. We are 180 million. We are a nuclear power. A Madina-e-sani. Pakistan is no Iraq. Pakistan is no Yugoslavia. We know how to live with dingity, and By God, we know how to die with honor.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby SSridhar » 15 Oct 2011 16:47

Why we must engage Pakistan - Director General, FICCI
The twofold response to counter this ‘low temperature war' by both covert and overt means is to one, make it increasingly expensive to launch operations designed to create chaos and enmity between the two people.

And two, to do all we can to strengthen the business community and civil society in Pakistan. This will allow them to emerge as viable and robust counter-vailing forces to Rawalpindi.

Let us remember that our national security will be achieved when we can influence the decisions in our neighbourhood and not simply by being reactive and defensive.

I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 15 Oct 2011 16:58

And then, here is Groping Gilly, saying that in Iqbal and in Ideology, one will find all solutions to despair:
Ego and faith our most precious assets: PM

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani, emphasisng that ‘Ego’ and ‘Faith’ are our most precious assets has said that we should not allow our ideology to become outdated and stagnant in a fast-changing world.

Even in this suffocating situation of despair, Iqbal serves as a beacon of light and harbinger of hope...“The day is not far when our great nation would emerge again with renewed vigour and energy”, he said.

Link

And while the groper is talking about "precious assets" that need to be handled with care, chacha-jaan is thinking this:

PAKISTAN: Time for Plan B
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Factsh ... for-Plan-B

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ranjbe » 15 Oct 2011 17:15

Washington Post take on new US policy on TSP:

U.S. goes after Haqqani network
The Obama administration has launched the opening salvos of a new, more aggressive approach toward an Afghan insurgent group it asserts is supported by Pakistan’s government, senior administration officials said

In a series of meetings with the national security team the following week, the White House reviewed long-standing options in Pakistan, ranging from outright attack to diplomacy, along with the likely ramifications of each, a process that culminated in the Sept. 29 NSC meeting.

Obama had gradually lost faith in Pakistan and its weak civilian leadership, officials said. But the core goal of their efforts, the president reminded his team, was the elimination of Pakistan-based al-Qaeda. It was important, he warned them, that “nobody takes their eye off the ball.”

Officials were instructed to calm European partners, telling them that while there would be more “edge” to the administration’s approach toward Pakistan, there would be no dramatic policy change, a European diplomat said. The Europeans, another said, were assured that no ground attack was in the offing.

Obama’s national security adviser, Thomas E. Donilon, conveyed administration resolve to Pakistani military chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani at a secret meeting in Saudi Arabia. The United States wanted a relationship with Pakistan, officials said Donilon told Kayani, but it also wanted the Haqqani attacks to stop.
Pakistani officials said Donilon offered Kayani three choices: kill the Haqqani leadership, help us kill them, or persuade them to join a peaceful, democratic Afghan government.
Despite Donilon’s stark message, a senior Pakistani military official said, Kayani was satisfied that he had heard from the top. “Too many cooks have been spoiling the broth,” the military official said. “Everyone has been giving the impression they’re representing the whole administration, with different messages adding to the confusion.”


“Congress is in a visible state of hostility. There are no receptive ears on the Hill,” the official added. “There is no DOD support” and the delivery of military aid, as well as equipment Pakistan has paid for, has slowed to a trickle. “The State Department is being the pacifier, but they are helpless.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-goes-after-haqqani-network/2011/10/14/gIQAj2i6kL_story.html?hpid=z1

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 15 Oct 2011 17:21

SSridhar wrote:I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.


Its a measure of how much TSP has been able to extract from India through it use of terror, and its also a measure of India's abject inability to take on TSP. Such kind of gestures make sense only from a position of strength, or else it can aplty be called cowardice masquerading as some kind of wel thought out policy. TSPA/ISI will happily go along with this, extract whatever benefits possible, and in the next breath orchestrate a 26/11 uniting average TSP abduls in an orgy of cheap thrills at the sight of India bleeding, and call for "resolution of Kashmir". The west, Indian WKKs, and TSPA's PR machine will say both sides want peace except for "extremists on both sides" and "core issue" needs resolution.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Tamang » 15 Oct 2011 17:24

Upendra wrote:List of WKKs who should consider volunteering for Behead4Peace campaign
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt

Please suggest more names of WKK's


This blasphemy, how could you forget Arundhati Roy and Mahesh Bhatt.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby parsuram » 15 Oct 2011 18:25

CRamS wrote:
SSridhar wrote:I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.


Its a measure of how much TSP has been able to extract from India through it use of terror, and its also a measure of India's abject inability to take on TSP. Such kind of gestures make sense only from a position of strength, or else it can aplty be called cowardice masquerading as some kind of wel thought out policy. TSPA/ISI will happily go along with this, extract whatever benefits possible, and in the next breath orchestrate a 26/11 uniting average TSP abduls in an orgy of cheap thrills at the sight of India bleeding, and call for "resolution of Kashmir". The west, Indian WKKs, and TSPA's PR machine will say both sides want peace except for "extremists on both sides" and "core issue" needs resolution.


I agree that at first glance this appears to be totally shameless pandering to the paki, capitulation without shots fired, but perhaps this GOI is looking at more facts than we have at our disposal. Lets see if the paki is putting up any quo for the fist full of quids India has put up. Note that the US position on Indian involvement in post war Afghanistan has undergone an almost 180 - and the Europeans have also come on board, with both taking the Indo-Afghan Strategic accord as the real document. The paki is screeming and kicking so far, but with a transit agreement thrown in, and external security guarentees with teeth, this may well be India's expected risk exposure for the paki coming on board. Moreover, the agreement apparently covers "businessmen" - hardly bottom level suicide jehaadi abduls, but more possibly planning, control people in any orchestrated terror attack. Afterall, these would hardly be people without substantial assets in the paki so as to skip bail and go toating AK47s, though with the paki's people, anything is possible. However, given the heat on the paki at this time, pulling another Mumbai would not be something you would expect from the paki now - not that common sense ever stopped the paki before, seeing that it lacks that attribute completely. But let us see - as the WP report says, the US has everything from an outright military attack to diplomacy on the table at this time for dealing with the haqqinis.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dipanker » 15 Oct 2011 18:35

ranjbe wrote:Washington Post take on new US policy on TSP:

U.S. goes after Haqqani network

Pakistani officials said Donilon offered Kayani three choices:
kill the Haqqani leadership,
help us kill them,
or persuade them to join a peaceful, democratic Afghan government.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-goes-after-haqqani-network/2011/10/14/gIQAj2i6kL_story.html?hpid=z1



Looks like the Paki have agreed for plan B and now helping Uncle to decapitate the Haqqanis and the assorted bunch since in last couple of weeks a few #3's have been blessed by Dronacharya and one is in Uncle's custody.

Time for the lower rank TSPA/ISI to revolt!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 15 Oct 2011 19:50

jrjrao wrote:But of course, where there is all this rot, and no roti, there is always the lal topi:
Remember, we are a muslim nation. We are 180 million. We are a nuclear power. A Madina-e-sani. Pakistan is no Iraq. Pakistan is no Yugoslavia. We know how to live with dingity, and By God, we know how to die with honor.

MEA should start a program. Any Paki who kills himself in his bathroom should get a medal!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Amber G. » 15 Oct 2011 20:09

U.S. Missiles Kill Six in Pakistan
U.S. missiles killed six suspected militants in northwestern Pakistan near the Afghan border Saturday, Pakistani intelligence officials said. The strikes were part of a flurry of such attacks which could indicate a more aggressive American strategy against insurgents finding sanctuary there.
.....<snip> ...

Independently of what Pakistan does, Washington may up the tempo of missile strikes or widen their targeting, ...

In the latest attack, drone-fired missiles slammed into a compound near the border town of Angore Adda in the South Waziristan tribal region. The strike targeted fighters of Maulvi Nazir, a Pakistani militant commander who is accused of working with the Taliban and al-Qaida to direct cross-border attacks, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to talk to media on record.
Saturday's strike was the latest in a string of missile attacks targeting the militant-infested border region.
On Friday, U.S. missiles killed four unidentified people in a part of the North Waziristan tribal region where the Haqqani network holds sway. A day earlier, a strike in North Waziristan killed Janbaz Zadran, who U.S. officials say was a top commander in the Haqqani network and had helped orchestrate attacks in Kabul and southeastern Afghanistan.
The three attacks broke a relative lull in recent weeks, though that kind of tempo is not unusual.
So far this year, there have been more than 50 strikes, most of them North Waziristan region, where the Haqqanis are based. U.S. officials say the missiles are killing militants and their supporters; human rights groups have questioned that, saying civilian deaths are common.
Meanwhile, Pakistani police said Saturday they had arrested a Russian and two nationals from Azerbaijan in Lakki Marwat, a town located near North Waziristan. It was not clear how the men reached the region, which is off limits to foreigners, and authorities said they were still investigating to determine whether the men had any links to militant groups.
<snip>

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Amber G. » 15 Oct 2011 21:06

Ramanaji - I did not see the following till recently when I saw that I was being discussed in Mav's blog.

ramana wrote:AmberG, Would like to know your thinking process in posting those pictures.

Thanks, ramana(as a poster not an admin)


I am somewhat baffled by the above post, as the picture *and* the article were from reputable sources with link provided. It was similar to Taliban visiting WH..this time, JS, as the report said, actually getting photographed with (and taking Mithai etc) to hijackers and their backers. (I do wonder, however, if instead of JS it was SM Krishna, would you have still rebuked me :?: )

My consul to you, if you are willing to take it, is that we should stop wondering about others "thinking process" or judging others "moral compass". It is not helpful and it brings disrepute to this great forum. We all bring different vision to this forum but we are not traitors.

I will strongly urge all to read our admin JEM's excellent post in this dhaga. Also Somnath's very insightful post as a reply to Ramana in this dhaga too.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby JwalaMukhi » 15 Oct 2011 21:31

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists ... n-1.888776
What? are there doubts about taller than mountane and deepel than ocean friends?
As in the past, a lively debate has sprung up about whether Pakistan is playing the China card to offset western pressure.

More or less, the same questions surface again and again: Will China stand by Pakistan in a real crisis in which the US and India figure singly or jointly? Can China ever replace the US as a source of economic assistance? Does Beijing have the hardware needed by Pakistani armed forces? Wouldn’t China feel discomfited by a problematic regional ally in its own pursuit of global objectives?

Not to worry all ij well with the friendship, which is now brutherhood these days.
Meanwhile, the Chinese soldiers work with Pakistanis on an increasing number of infra-structure projects that would also enable China to use Pakistan as a gateway to the Middle East and Africa. China remains Pakistan’s only source for nuclear power production. Neither country considers some imagined great game as the context of bilateral relations. Describing their relations as a unique ‘brotherhood’, both work avowedly in enduring trust.


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