^^ when did pakis covert to counting using millions billions and gazillions ...?
pgbhat wrote: And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.
^^^^^^Lilo wrote:^^ when did pakis covert to counting using millions billions and gazillions ...?
what happened to good ole crores and lakhs.
side effects of too much american aid ?
... and guess who wants to be more arab than the arabs - the paki. And the paki chooses the kafir "billion" over the number for the faithful - arab. Ironic. ironic. and, ofcourse, parsuram wrote:shiv ji: st sri aakal.
I promiss, this is my last word on this subject between us. I firmly am of the opinion that there are not enough people in the paki who are willing to accept the reduction of the paki down to the level of a somalia - even a nuke armed somalia. The paki is not prepared to have its beautiful face desicrated by an American air offensive of the shock-'n-awe variety. They know too well the end result of such an offensive, and they will not bear, the owners of the paki will not bear to have their beloved paki reduced to - even disfigured slightly to, no - even have the appearance of being disfigued to what a passing encounter with shock-'n-awe will produce as a result. The paki will back off entirely.
Holy L&Prem wrote:Alhamdulillah ,
Paki railways sytem is already on par with holy Arabia of Saud. Now wait for the landscape to resemble the holy sand.
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan — Pakistani intelligence officials say drone-fired U.S. missiles have hit a compound near the Afghan border, killing at least three militants.
The two officials say some suspects were also wounded in early Saturday's attack in South Waziristan.
They say those killed were the fighters of Maulvi Nazir, a local militant commander who is accused of working with Taliban and al-Qaida to direct cross-border attacks.
The officials spoke on anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to media on record.
NEW DELHI: A two-day meeting of Joint Working Group of Pakistan and India concluded here on Friday, with and agreement on firming up of a draft of their bilateral visa agreement that will liberalise travel between the two countries. The meeting, which was held to examine the modalities for streamlining visa procedures and to finalise the draft of the new Bilateral Visa Agreement, came out with the accord. The agreement seeks to ease travel for the nationals of the two nations who desire to visit the other country, said a joint press statement issued by the two sides after the second meeting of the Working Group.The two sides finalised the draft text of the agreement, which would be submitted to the respective governments for obtaining necessary approvals in order to ratify it. The meeting was a follow-up on the deliberations held in the first meeting of the Joint Working Group in Islamabad from June 2-3 this year.It was held in pursuance of the decision taken during the India-Pakistan home/interior secretary-level talks held in New Delhi on 28-29 March 2011. The Indian delegation was led by Anil Goswami, Additional Secretary (Foreigners), Ministry of Home Affairs while the Pakistan delegation was led by Ministry of Interior Additional Secretary Nasar Hayat. The discussions were held in a friendly and cordial atmosphe
There is much that Pakistan can talk about by way of reminding the United States to correct its behaviour. While it has gone all-out to appease and please India, entering into long-term economic and defence partnership deals, including the nuclear bonanza, it has been reluctant to provide even limited trade facilities or enter into an investment agreement with Pakistan. The way it thrust the comparatively small aid package on Pakistan in the shape of a condition-ridden legislation (and how only a fraction of the money has been actually released) is a stark demonstration of the way it has been treating usIt is good that we are beginning to realise that we can no longer continue to play the role of second rate mercenaries. Kayani rightly told Grossman and the ISAF Chief that Pakistan would not allow itself to be pushed to do things against its own interests and plans. It is also time Islamabad tells Washington not to godfather India’s unacceptable role in Afghanistan.The USA and its Western and Indian allies have already charted a course for this region. Pakistan needs to hold consultation with China, Turkey and Iran to neutralise the harmful parts of the envisaged strategic architecture
A minor correction. There is no North-South motorway in place. The motorways they've built so far are infact a network of quality roads with proper/dedicated highway policing.shiv wrote:The other thing I want to look at is the state of Pakistan roads. I wonder how many developed roads they have apart from their much praised and much hooted "motorways" which are just one North South trunk as far as I know. Pakistan's motorways are hardly a "network" with roads off the motorways being bad. But I will get back with info on this whether I am wrong or right.
These roads are in no way upto motorway standards.A New Pakistan Policy: Containment
By BRUCE O. RIEDEL
Washington
AMERICA needs a new policy for dealing with Pakistan. First, we must recognize that the two countries’ strategic interests are in conflict, not harmony, and will remain that way as long as Pakistan’s army controls Pakistan’s strategic policies. We must contain the Pakistani Army’s ambitions until real civilian rule returns and Pakistanis set a new direction for their foreign policy.
As Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate committee last month, Pakistan provides critical sanctuary and support to the Afghan insurgency that we are trying to suppress. Taliban leaders meet under Pakistani protection even as we try to capture or kill them.
In 2009, I led a policy review for President Obama on Pakistan and Afghanistan. At the time, Al Qaeda was operating with virtual impunity in Pakistan, and its ally Lashkar-e-Taiba had just attacked the Indian city of Mumbai and killed at least 163 people, including 6 Americans, with help from Pakistani intelligence. {There is no attempt to sugar coat it here} Under no illusions, Mr. Obama tried to improve relations with Pakistan by increasing aid and dialogue; he also expanded drone operations to fight terrorist groups that Pakistan would not fight on its own.
It was right to try engagement, but now the approach needs reshaping. We will have to persevere in Afghanistan in the face of opposition by Pakistan.
The generals who run Pakistan have not abandoned their obsession with challenging India. They tolerate terrorists at home, seek a Taliban victory in Afghanistan and are building the world’s fastest-growing nuclear arsenal. They have sidelined and intimidated civilian leaders elected in 2008. They seem to think Pakistan is invulnerable, because they control NATO’s supply line from Karachi to Kabul and have nuclear weapons.
The generals also think time is on their side — that NATO is doomed to give up in Afghanistan, leaving them free to act as they wish there. So they have concluded that the sooner America leaves, the better it will be for Pakistan. They want Americans and Europeans to believe the war is hopeless, so they encourage the Taliban and other militant groups to speed the withdrawal with spectacular attacks, like the Sept. 13 raid on the United States Embassy in Kabul, which killed 16 Afghan police officers and civilians.
It is time to move to a policy of containment, which would mean a more hostile relationship. But it should be a focused hostility, aimed not at hurting Pakistan’s people but at holding its army and intelligence branches accountable. When we learn that an officer from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, is aiding terrorism, whether in Afghanistan or India, we should put him on wanted lists, sanction him at the United Nations and, if he is dangerous enough, track him down. Putting sanctions on organizations in Pakistan has not worked in the past, but sanctioning individuals has — as the nuclear proliferator Abdul Qadeer Khan could attest.
Offering Pakistan more trade while reducing aid makes sense. When we extend traditional aid, media outlets with ties to the ISI cite the aid to weave conspiracy theories that alienate Pakistanis from us. Mr. Obama should instead announce that he is cutting tariffs on Pakistani textiles to or below the level that India and China enjoy; that would strengthen entrepreneurs and women, two groups who are outside the army’s control and who are interested in peace.
Military assistance to Pakistan should be cut deeply. Regular contacts between our officers and theirs can continue, but under no delusion that we are allies.
Osama bin Laden’s death confirmed that we can’t rely on Pakistan to take out prominent terrorists on its soil. We will still need bases in Afghanistan from which to act when we see a threat in Pakistan. But drones should be used judiciously, for very important targets.
In Afghanistan, we should not have false hopes for a political solution. We can hope that top figures among the Quetta Shura — Afghan Taliban leaders who are sheltered in Quetta, Pakistan — will be delivered to the bargaining table, but that is unlikely, since the Quetta leadership assassinated Burhanuddin Rabbani, the leader of Afghanistan’s High Peace Council and a former Afghan president, last month. The ISI will veto any Taliban peace efforts it opposes, which means any it doesn’t control. Rather than hoping for ISI help, we need to continue to build an Afghan Army that can control the insurgency with long-term NATO assistance and minimal combat troops.
Strategic dialogue with India about Pakistan is essential because it would focus the Pakistani Army’s mind. India and Pakistan are trying to improve trade and transportation links severed after they became independent in 1947, and we should encourage that. We should also increase intelligence cooperation against terrorist targets in Pakistan. And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.
America and Pakistan have had a tempestuous relationship for decades. For far too long we have banked on the Pakistani Army to protect our interests. Now we need to contain that army’s aggressive instincts, while helping those who want a progressive Pakistan and keeping up the fight against terrorism.
Bruce O. Riedel, a former C.I.A. officer and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, is the author of “Deadly Embrace: Pakistan, America and the Future of the Global Jihad.”
Just post some maps please. The road network in Pakistan has been hyped to show what is good and what is absent cannot be shown. So I want to see what exists. Photos of 1 or 2 km of highway are always photos of the best. Photos of that which is bad are not shown. But I have read descriptions and have cites of what is bad.Rohit_K wrote:
If people want, I can expand more on highways and perhaps also talk about city road infra.
This sounds like targeted assassinations to meand, if he is dangerous enough, track him down
) , judiciary , prisons , criminal justice system , human resources , trade and whatnot.I'd say her nation building efforts are a little late especially after 60 years of wanton existence of the pakbarian state.Although there should be no illusions that the aforementioned suggestions will transform Pakistan over any useful time horizon -- if ever -- it is critical that Pakistan not follow the path of North Korea. North Korea is diplomatically and politically isolated without any incentive to remain within the community of nations. Instead, the United States should make every effort to creatively forge a new, bold, and sustainable civilian engagement strategy while normalizing its ties with Pakistan's military. Although democratization efforts may take a long time to bear fruit, if they ever do, one thing is clear: the most likely path toward a stable country involves empowering Pakistan's civilians to exert control over security and foreign policy. U.S. assistance to help Pakistanis do so is a high-stakes gamble worth taking.
Easing border controls will aid terrorists in easily crossing over , behead people and go back to pakistan to be honored as ghazis. This will help pakistan revive its flagging economy by spending less on the travel expenses of terrorists. This a worthwhile suggestion to consider. WKK's will enthusiastically volunteer for this exciting new beheading program. Of course for the sake of peace we have to make some sacrifice, so why not sacrifice the WKK? What do you say birathers? Shall we prepare a list of WKK volunteers to urge them to give peace a chance.CRamS wrote:pgbhat wrote: And we should encourage India to be more conciliatory on Kashmir, by easing border controls and releasing prisoners.
This naive BS stands apart from an otherwise reasonable article from Riedel. Does he really believe that the so called "Kashmir conflct" is about border control and prisoners?
Looks more like transfer of technology. You show how to do piracy, I provide you with all the guns you need, effing genius porks.Prem wrote:http://www.eaglespeak.us/2011/10/somali ... -near.html
Somali Pirates: Suspicious Activity Near Pakistan
NSC4: Warning- Suspicious Activity 14/10/2011 17:45 2429N 06347E Suspicious Activity
Check the map . News wont say if Somali Pirate was seen either incoming or getting out after being trained by Paki Navy.
Indeed so. There is also osmosis and reverse osmosis.ramana wrote:SSridhar, I was thinking that the TSPA provides a channel/avenue for the more educated/higher IQ jihadis and those who don't make the cut become non-uniformed jihadis and cannon fodder.
Rohit - thanks for the info. I have no intention of not giving credit where it is due. But I also do not want to give credit where it is not due.Rohit_K wrote: Let's give credit where it's due.
http://www.thefrontierpost.com/?p=67720ISLAMABAD (APP): Minister for Railways Haji Ghulam Ahmed Bilour on Friday informed the National Assembly that 153 trains had been suspended due to shortage of diesel and the railways had no sufficient amount for giving salaries and pension to its employees.
It keeps coming:One Lady Health Worker died while two other fell unconscious in a protest of health workers against the non-payment of salaries in different cities of Punjab.
The protesters said that if government did not paid the salaries then they will boycott the polio vaccination campaign and dengue spray campaign staring from October 24.
Nearly 26,000 staffers of the government’s family planning and primary healthcare unit have been continuously protesting against the non-payment of their salaries...
Remember, we are a muslim nation. We are 180 million. We are a nuclear power. A Madina-e-sani. Pakistan is no Iraq. Pakistan is no Yugoslavia. We know how to live with dingity, and By God, we know how to die with honor.
The twofold response to counter this ‘low temperature war' by both covert and overt means is to one, make it increasingly expensive to launch operations designed to create chaos and enmity between the two people.
And two, to do all we can to strengthen the business community and civil society in Pakistan. This will allow them to emerge as viable and robust counter-vailing forces to Rawalpindi.
I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.Let us remember that our national security will be achieved when we can influence the decisions in our neighbourhood and not simply by being reactive and defensive.
LinkEgo and faith our most precious assets: PM
Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani, emphasisng that ‘Ego’ and ‘Faith’ are our most precious assets has said that we should not allow our ideology to become outdated and stagnant in a fast-changing world.
Even in this suffocating situation of despair, Iqbal serves as a beacon of light and harbinger of hope...“The day is not far when our great nation would emerge again with renewed vigour and energy”, he said.
The Obama administration has launched the opening salvos of a new, more aggressive approach toward an Afghan insurgent group it asserts is supported by Pakistan’s government, senior administration officials said
In a series of meetings with the national security team the following week, the White House reviewed long-standing options in Pakistan, ranging from outright attack to diplomacy, along with the likely ramifications of each, a process that culminated in the Sept. 29 NSC meeting.
Obama had gradually lost faith in Pakistan and its weak civilian leadership, officials said. But the core goal of their efforts, the president reminded his team, was the elimination of Pakistan-based al-Qaeda. It was important, he warned them, that “nobody takes their eye off the ball.”
Officials were instructed to calm European partners, telling them that while there would be more “edge” to the administration’s approach toward Pakistan, there would be no dramatic policy change, a European diplomat said. The Europeans, another said, were assured that no ground attack was in the offing.
Obama’s national security adviser, Thomas E. Donilon, conveyed administration resolve to Pakistani military chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani at a secret meeting in Saudi Arabia. The United States wanted a relationship with Pakistan, officials said Donilon told Kayani, but it also wanted the Haqqani attacks to stop.
Pakistani officials said Donilon offered Kayani three choices: kill the Haqqani leadership, help us kill them, or persuade them to join a peaceful, democratic Afghan government.
Despite Donilon’s stark message, a senior Pakistani military official said, Kayani was satisfied that he had heard from the top. “Too many cooks have been spoiling the broth,” the military official said. “Everyone has been giving the impression they’re representing the whole administration, with different messages adding to the confusion.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ml?hpid=z1“Congress is in a visible state of hostility. There are no receptive ears on the Hill,” the official added. “There is no DOD support” and the delivery of military aid, as well as equipment Pakistan has paid for, has slowed to a trickle. “The State Department is being the pacifier, but they are helpless.”
Its a measure of how much TSP has been able to extract from India through it use of terror, and its also a measure of India's abject inability to take on TSP. Such kind of gestures make sense only from a position of strength, or else it can aplty be called cowardice masquerading as some kind of wel thought out policy. TSPA/ISI will happily go along with this, extract whatever benefits possible, and in the next breath orchestrate a 26/11 uniting average TSP abduls in an orgy of cheap thrills at the sight of India bleeding, and call for "resolution of Kashmir". The west, Indian WKKs, and TSPA's PR machine will say both sides want peace except for "extremists on both sides" and "core issue" needs resolution.SSridhar wrote: I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.
This blasphemy, how could you forget Arundhati Roy and Mahesh Bhatt.Upendra wrote:List of WKKs who should consider volunteering for Behead4Peace campaign
Kuldip Nayar
Dileep Padgaonkar
Harinder Baweja
Gautam Navlakha
Barkha Dutt
Please suggest more names of WKK's
I agree that at first glance this appears to be totally shameless pandering to the paki, capitulation without shots fired, but perhaps this GOI is looking at more facts than we have at our disposal. Lets see if the paki is putting up any quo for the fist full of quids India has put up. Note that the US position on Indian involvement in post war Afghanistan has undergone an almost 180 - and the Europeans have also come on board, with both taking the Indo-Afghan Strategic accord as the real document. The paki is screeming and kicking so far, but with a transit agreement thrown in, and external security guarentees with teeth, this may well be India's expected risk exposure for the paki coming on board. Moreover, the agreement apparently covers "businessmen" - hardly bottom level suicide jehaadi abduls, but more possibly planning, control people in any orchestrated terror attack. Afterall, these would hardly be people without substantial assets in the paki so as to skip bail and go toating AK47s, though with the paki's people, anything is possible. However, given the heat on the paki at this time, pulling another Mumbai would not be something you would expect from the paki now - not that common sense ever stopped the paki before, seeing that it lacks that attribute completely. But let us see - as the WP report says, the US has everything from an outright military attack to diplomacy on the table at this time for dealing with the haqqinis.CRamS wrote:Its a measure of how much TSP has been able to extract from India through it use of terror, and its also a measure of India's abject inability to take on TSP. Such kind of gestures make sense only from a position of strength, or else it can aplty be called cowardice masquerading as some kind of wel thought out policy. TSPA/ISI will happily go along with this, extract whatever benefits possible, and in the next breath orchestrate a 26/11 uniting average TSP abduls in an orgy of cheap thrills at the sight of India bleeding, and call for "resolution of Kashmir". The west, Indian WKKs, and TSPA's PR machine will say both sides want peace except for "extremists on both sides" and "core issue" needs resolution.SSridhar wrote: I absolutely do not agree with the above assessment. The entire Pakistan is one when it comes to waging jihad with India and when it comes to the desire to destroy us. Pakistan will now use the liberalized visa regime to infiltrate jihadis and Headley-like characters into India.
ranjbe wrote:Washington Post take on new US policy on TSP:
U.S. goes after Haqqani network
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ml?hpid=z1Pakistani officials said Donilon offered Kayani three choices:
kill the Haqqani leadership,
help us kill them,
or persuade them to join a peaceful, democratic Afghan government.
MEA should start a program. Any Paki who kills himself in his bathroom should get a medal!jrjrao wrote:But of course, where there is all this rot, and no roti, there is always the lal topi:Remember, we are a muslim nation. We are 180 million. We are a nuclear power. A Madina-e-sani. Pakistan is no Iraq. Pakistan is no Yugoslavia. We know how to live with dingity, and By God, we know how to die with honor.
U.S. missiles killed six suspected militants in northwestern Pakistan near the Afghan border Saturday, Pakistani intelligence officials said. The strikes were part of a flurry of such attacks which could indicate a more aggressive American strategy against insurgents finding sanctuary there.
.....<snip> ...
Independently of what Pakistan does, Washington may up the tempo of missile strikes or widen their targeting, ...
In the latest attack, drone-fired missiles slammed into a compound near the border town of Angore Adda in the South Waziristan tribal region. The strike targeted fighters of Maulvi Nazir, a Pakistani militant commander who is accused of working with the Taliban and al-Qaida to direct cross-border attacks, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to talk to media on record.
Saturday's strike was the latest in a string of missile attacks targeting the militant-infested border region.
On Friday, U.S. missiles killed four unidentified people in a part of the North Waziristan tribal region where the Haqqani network holds sway. A day earlier, a strike in North Waziristan killed Janbaz Zadran, who U.S. officials say was a top commander in the Haqqani network and had helped orchestrate attacks in Kabul and southeastern Afghanistan.
The three attacks broke a relative lull in recent weeks, though that kind of tempo is not unusual.
So far this year, there have been more than 50 strikes, most of them North Waziristan region, where the Haqqanis are based. U.S. officials say the missiles are killing militants and their supporters; human rights groups have questioned that, saying civilian deaths are common.
Meanwhile, Pakistani police said Saturday they had arrested a Russian and two nationals from Azerbaijan in Lakki Marwat, a town located near North Waziristan. It was not clear how the men reached the region, which is off limits to foreigners, and authorities said they were still investigating to determine whether the men had any links to militant groups.
<snip>
I am somewhat baffled by the above post, as the picture *and* the article were from reputable sources with link provided. It was similar to Taliban visiting WH..this time, JS, as the report said, actually getting photographed with (and taking Mithai etc) to hijackers and their backers. (I do wonder, however, if instead of JS it was SM Krishna, would you have still rebuked meramana wrote:AmberG, Would like to know your thinking process in posting those pictures.
Thanks, ramana(as a poster not an admin)
) Not to worry all ij well with the friendship, which is now brutherhood these days.As in the past, a lively debate has sprung up about whether Pakistan is playing the China card to offset western pressure.
More or less, the same questions surface again and again: Will China stand by Pakistan in a real crisis in which the US and India figure singly or jointly? Can China ever replace the US as a source of economic assistance? Does Beijing have the hardware needed by Pakistani armed forces? Wouldn’t China feel discomfited by a problematic regional ally in its own pursuit of global objectives?
Meanwhile, the Chinese soldiers work with Pakistanis on an increasing number of infra-structure projects that would also enable China to use Pakistan as a gateway to the Middle East and Africa. China remains Pakistan’s only source for nuclear power production. Neither country considers some imagined great game as the context of bilateral relations. Describing their relations as a unique ‘brotherhood’, both work avowedly in enduring trust.
