Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

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svinayak
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 00:23

ramana wrote:To assure them like the afghans that they are triplets.

Acharya, That Jonathan pollack article is very important. He is a old China watcher who predicted 1998 based on Chinese moves.

Read it over and over again.

Good you have noticed.

First US has been talking about Middle east - that is Pakistan more.
They are gauging the Chinese reaction.
Now in the upfront CNN program Erin Burnett they are talking about the next generation of Pakistan.

The trend seems to be for a new gen - revolucion' inside Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 01:01



No other nation has given so much aid to Pakistan keeping its head bob over the swirling waters without drowning, for six decades now. Not even their extremely wealthy ummah brethren, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). The 'taller-than-the-tallest mountain, sweeter-than-the-sweetest-honey and deeper-than-the-deepest-ocean all weather friend' China does not dispense with hard cash and helps Pakistan only on a project-by-project basis and when that would be beneficial to it also. And, yet, Pakistan has been singularly ungrateful to the US.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby anupmisra » 23 Oct 2011 02:01


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Guddu » 23 Oct 2011 02:19



I dont think even karzai believes what he is saying...it appeared to me that he was trying very hard to suppress a smile and speak in hindi for the paki audience, and after saying what the pakis wanted to hear, he switches to english. He also said he would support Pak against any country who attacks pakis, knowing full well that India will never do that.

I think Karzai is panicking, maybe the lamp posts shine bright and welcoming, maybe the recent Rabbani assassination has freaked him out, he does not want Kiyani's goons after him, especially with the US reducing its presence in Afghanistan. I am sure Gadha-fi's fate is also sending a message of sorts.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 23 Oct 2011 02:36

Acharya wrote:No other nation has given so much aid to Pakistan keeping its head bob over the swirling waters without drowning, for six decades now. Not even their extremely wealthy ummah brethren, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). The 'taller-than-the-tallest mountain, sweeter-than-the-sweetest-honey and deeper-than-the-deepest-ocean all weather friend' China does not dispense with hard cash and helps Pakistan only on a project-by-project basis and when that would be beneficial to it also. And, yet, Pakistan has been singularly ungrateful to the US.


Thats because US has not delivered the prize that TSP covets so desparately.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 23 Oct 2011 02:39

Nothing new here, except to reinforce what a colossal scumbag Ejaz Haider is. Earlier, you would at least need to scratch away that nanometer thin veneer of "Brookings scholar" RAPEness, in order to see him for the Paki army shill that he is.

Now, as the state of Pakistan swirls ever deeper and faster down the toilet, this scumbag's writing has taken on an edge, and once you take away the attempt at fancy verbiage and sophistry, is asymptotically approaching Laal Topi in content.

But what galls is the open and guiltless recourse to a "sardar" joke. One would think that such stereotyping crassness would be a no-no, that too by somebody this high profile, and in an op-ed in a national daily. Even here (in the US), on local Paki radio shows, where they often run a tell-a-joke segment, whenever a Paki calls in saying he wants to regale everybody with a "sardar" joke, the Paki hosts quickly berate and hang up on the caller.

And to think that this same scumbag was sharing halwa puri with the Barkha Dutts in Bangkok last week at some junk Indo-Pak pooh-bah summit.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/10 ... stan-game/

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Cosmo_R » 23 Oct 2011 03:05

@jrjr^^^. Yes, EH does resemble that thing that pops out of John Hurt's abdomen in "Alien"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JehjqlzXwIQ
Last edited by Cosmo_R on 23 Oct 2011 03:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Cosmo_R » 23 Oct 2011 03:36

abhijitm wrote:Afghanistan will support pakistan in case of US attack
hain!!!
now Karazai is taking bets on US attacking pakistan :rotfl:

Afghanistan and Afghan people will be standing with Pakistan and their Pakistani brethren if any one including US and India attacked Pakistan, Afghan President Hamid Karzai told a local private TV channel, during an interview. Karzai said that no one including US, India and China could incite Afghanistan and Afghan people against Pakistan. He said if Pakistan was attacked even by US or India, Afghanistan will support Pakistan. He said that though they had complaints against Pakistani establishment, but they (Afghanis) could not forget the hospitality, brotherhood and support the Pakistani brethren extended to them during their exile during the Afghan war. Regarding his recent visit to India during which Afghanistan signed strategic partnership pact with India, he said that it had nothing to do with the recent stained relations between Pakistan and US, saying that the visit had long been planned before the recent Pak-US tension.

Karzai has good sense of humor


You don't think think this was coordinated with S Magoo Krishna who said (or read) "The US and Pakistan should heal their rift" do you? :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 23 Oct 2011 03:42



The sheer audacity of a terrorist state that survives on the largese of others is mind boggling.

Does he use the following pithy phrases to show off his RAPEness or they used to convey some deep meaning that simpler words can't:

1. Consociational model

2. Clausewitzean terms

Paging A_GuptaJi. Any clue as to what these phrases mean :-)?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Bhima » 23 Oct 2011 04:16

Karzai has been complaining about terrorist safe havens in Pakistan for years. It appears his wish may soon be granted hence this contradiction to his previous statements. If what he says or does has little effect on American strategy and decisions he can say whatever he wants and get away with it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Nandu » 23 Oct 2011 04:18

I think Karzai is just trying to reduce paranoia levels in Paki-land. Nothing deeper than that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Vivek_A » 23 Oct 2011 04:33

If you had any doubt that pakis are nuts, watch this video..starting at the 22 minute mark..

http://pkaffairs.com/Play_Show_Khari_Ba ... 2011_17306

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby devesh » 23 Oct 2011 05:08

I sincerely hope that man reaches as many people in Pak as possible. India should actually fund these loonies. 440 Hz....that is the magic number....and it's all an Indian conspiracy....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 05:32

Pak located on political fault lines for being neighbour of Afghanistan: Zardari
South Asian News Agency (SANA) ⋅ October 22, 2011 ⋅ Share/Save
http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/10 ... n-zardari/
AMMAN, (SANA): President Asif Ali Zardari has said that Pakistan is strategically located to exploit its economic and manpower potential for its own prosperity and that of the different regions of the world.

The President pointed out that Pakistan is located on the political fault lines for being neighbour of Afghanistan which has been witnessing great game of the world power for decades. He said Pakistan has been affected by events in Afghanistan and natural calamities but its people have great resilience to withstand all such challenges.

He was addressing the World Economic Forum in Jordanian capital of Amman on Saturday. A special session “A Conversation with Asif Ali Zardari, President of Pakistan” was devoted to Pakistan and its potential.

President Asif Ali Zardari said Pakistan provides the shortest routes for energy corridors to the world. Its ports and territory offers the most viable route for energy corridors from energy rich to energy starved countries.

The President acknowledged that Pakistan has a huge population but pointed out that China has converted its population into an engine of economic growth and Pakistan too has the potential to do so as majority of its population is young.

He said there was a reverse brain-drain in countries like India and China and Pakistani manpower can take advantage of the phenomenon by offering services in different fields. He said Pakistani universities are now producing engineers, scientists, doctors and nurses that can fulfil requirements of the world. He said Pakistan is using latest technology in different spheres of life.

He said the present Government in Pakistan has taken several initiatives to empower women and one of them was introduction of Benazir Card.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 07:05

India-Pakistan Article
We Are Serious This Time, Really We Are
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/india/a ... 11021.aspx
October 21, 2011: American leaders are dismayed as they keep encountering Pakistani politicians and military officials who believe all their troubles are caused by Indian, American and Israeli conspiracies. Pakistan is full of this stuff, and those who believe it are not eager to consider alternatives. While the Pakistani fears are largely based on fiction, the growing number of Indians killed by Pakistani sponsored (and based) terrorism is very real. There are Pakistanis who understand the reality of all this and some of them are diplomats. But as long as most Pakistani leaders, and most of the Pakistani media, embrace the conspiracy theories, real peace is not likely. But at least the diplomats from each nation can discuss possibilities.
The U.S. constantly points to the continuing presence of Islamic terror groups in Pakistani sanctuaries. That is difficult for the Pakistanis to deny. The major danger here is that if a big attack is made in the United States, and tracked back to a Pakistani sanctuary, this could trigger a public call for war with Pakistan. Even many senior Pakistanis recognize this danger and try to control the terrorists they host. This precarious situation won't go away as long as the terrorist sanctuaries (mainly North Waziristan and Quetta) are openly protected by Pakistani leaders. But without admitting anything to the Americans, Pakistan has apparently ordered some Haqqani personnel and bases out of North Waziristan. This might just be Haqqani fleeing an area that American intelligence knew too well, and that might have been under the advice of Pakistani intelligence. The movement of Haqqani personnel, to Afghanistan or elsewhere in the tribal territories, is making life difficult for the many foreign terrorists who find sanctuary (and work) with Haqqani. The desire to impose greater security on the new Haqqani bases means foreign recruits will take a lot longer to be led in.

In Indian Kashmir, the strongest Islamic terror group, Hizbul Mujahideen (HM), is fading away as more of its leaders are killed or captured each month, and few replacements show up. HM is unique in that it came to be dominated by Indian Kashmiris and resisted control by Pakistan. While still receiving personnel and other aid from Pakistan, HM was more sensitive to Kashmiri needs and desires, not what Pakistani foreign policy demanded. As a result, when the Kashmiri population turned against Islamic terrorism in the last decade, HM began to decline. Despite that, HM maintained its position as the major Islamic terror group in Kashmir because increased Indian success at border security hurt the groups more dependent on personnel and aid from Pakistan.

In northwest Pakistan, 30 Pakistani Taliban crossed over from Afghanistan and attacked the compound of a pro-government tribal leader. Three people were killed, but not the tribal leader.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2011 07:34

Prem wrote:This is from Reuter
http://www.haaretz.com/news/internation ... bled=false
Pakistan, Morocco, Togo and Guatemala elected to UN Security Council
Race for a fifth council seat adjourned after neither Azerbaijan nor Slovenia wins a two-thirds majority of the General Assembly after nine votes/

And here is Pakistan's Half Mother,17% Father and 22% Cousin Brother and 11% Ashna
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15412662
Pakistan wins UN Security Council seat alongside India


We should be proud to be clubbed alongside the likes of pakiatan, morocco and togo!! 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jash_p » 23 Oct 2011 08:23

hain!!!
now Karazai is taking bets on US attacking pakistan :rotfl:

Quote:
Afghanistan and Afghan people will be standing with Pakistan and their Pakistani brethren if any one including US and India attacked Pakistan, Afghan President Hamid Karzai told a local private TV channel, during an interview. Karzai said that no one including US, India and China could incite Afghanistan and Afghan people against Pakistan. He said if Pakistan was attacked even by US or India, Afghanistan will support Pakistan. He said that though they had complaints against Pakistani establishment, but they (Afghanis) could not forget the hospitality, brotherhood and support the Pakistani brethren extended to them during their exile during the Afghan war. Regarding his recent visit to India during which Afghanistan signed strategic partnership pact with India, he said that it had nothing to do with the recent stained relations between Pakistan and US, saying that the visit had long been planned before the recent Pak-US tension.

Karzai has good sense of humor



Don't be surprise tomorrow if MMS will give ultimatum to USA that any attack on TSP will be consider attack on India and India will declare war against USA.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 23 Oct 2011 08:35

chetak wrote:
Prem wrote:This is from Reuter
http://www.haaretz.com/news/internation ... bled=false
Pakistan, Morocco, Togo and Guatemala elected to UN Security Council
Race for a fifth council seat adjourned after neither Azerbaijan nor Slovenia wins a two-thirds majority of the General Assembly after nine votes/

And here is Pakistan's Half Mother,17% Father and 22% Cousin Brother and 11% Ashna
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15412662
Pakistan wins UN Security Council seat alongside India


We should be proud to be clubbed alongside the likes of pakiatan, morocco and togo!! 8)


We have a seat at the "high table ! Cheers! Leading nations of the world. Sekoority counsil and all. Is that awesome or is that awesome!
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby harbans » 23 Oct 2011 08:46

Don't be surprise tomorrow if MMS will give ultimatum to USA that any attack on TSP will be consider attack on India and India will declare war against USA.


Exactly. I mentioned this as a major possibility couple of months ago here. That is really one of the biggest concerns. The West hasn't got Indian dhimmi WKK types amongst them. It doesn't yet understand that psyche. WKKs and the left see pretty much eye to eye on this.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 23 Oct 2011 09:06

The WKK crowd with 'pliss to not attack our chota birader TSP' banners will come out any time now.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 23 Oct 2011 09:18

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 23 Oct 2011 09:19

Pakistan a force multiplier for regional economies: Zardari
DEAD SEA - President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday said the strategic location of Pakistan with the shortest and easiest access to the world’s two largest economies of China and India, a productive workforce of over 60 percent youth in a population of around 200 million and liberal economic and political policies had made the country a force multiplier for the economies of the region straddling across China, India and Middle East.
“Pakistan is also contributing towards regional and global peace with its blood and sweat by fighting the militancy in order to enable entrepreneurs invest in an environment of peace and stability,” the president said while addressing a plenary interactive session of the World Economic Forum at the Dead Sea resort

Must be a spelling mistake. He meant to say pakistan is a 'farce' multiplier for regional economies. :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 23 Oct 2011 09:19

And not only that, Undie and IBN will host WKK shows thunderously declaring that India, as an "impending super power" of the 21st centiry must raise up to its obligations and not partake in any support to US in violating the sovereignty of TSP, a member of the UNSC and 'friend' and 'ally' of India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 23 Oct 2011 09:39

While all this chillum-&-hookah is going on between some billis in dilli and pindi over the UN-vote, here is something mildly interesting that the very-non-Paki-army, very-sober, very-sensible and very-India-should-make-concessions-to-him Zardari was speaking today.

First note that India has a coastline that is well over 7500 km long. India is continent-size, with water around 3 sides of it.

India has major ports in Calcutta, Chennai, Cochin, JNP, Kandla, Mangalore, Mormugao, Mumbai, Paradip, Tuticorin, Visakhapatnam.

Furthermore, India has semi-major ports in Bedi Bunder, Bhavnagar, Calicut, Cuddalore, Gopalpur, Kakinada, Karwar, Magdalla, Mandavi, Navlakhi, Okha, Porbandar, Ratnagiri, and perhaps more.

And add to that, any number of minor ports all along the east and west coastline.

And then there is PakiSatan, with the single grand Islamic gateway port of Kracchi/Qasim.

And oh, BTW, there is also the new thingie in Gwadar, where once a year, one little frozen rat, and one tiny frozen squirrel, are impolted and then transpolted all the way from Gwadar to Krakoram hway to SinXinkiang to somewhere to elsewhere to 25 days later to, finally, a fanciel and deepel and tallel lestaulant in Beijing.

But no matter, here is zing-zing-Zardari, zinged up on the bestest Afghan brown powder, saying this today at the World Economic Forum:

Pakistan a force multiplier for regional economies: Zardari
President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday said the strategic location of Pakistan with the shortest and easiest access to the world’s two largest economies of China and India, a productive workforce of over 60 percent youth in a population of around 200 million and liberal economic and political policies had made the country a force multiplier for the economies of the region straddling across China, India and Middle East.

The session titled “A Conversation with the President of Pakistan” was conducted by Prof Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum, who introduced President Zardari and then opened the floor for questions.

Spokesperson to the president Farhatullah Babar quoted the president as saying that with the migration of Indian and Chinese citizens back to their respective countries, Pakistani younger generation could fill the gap. :rotfl: :rotfl:

He said Pakistan was the second largest exporter of doctors to the United States, adding that the government under its Benazir Income Support Programme would train more youth through vocational programmes for prospective jobs all over the world.

The president said since the 21st century would be dominated by Asia, Pakistan’s geo-political location being a gateway to Central Asia and providing access to warm waters, was a regional strength.

He said Pakistan was at the centre of the most natural energy corridor to feed industries and homes of half of the world population. Pakistani ports also serve as a natural gateway to the vast markets in Central Asia, he added.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2011 10:09

Dilbu wrote:Pakistan a force multiplier for regional economies: Zardari
DEAD SEA - President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday said the strategic location of Pakistan with the shortest and easiest access to the world’s two largest economies of China and India, a productive workforce of over 60 percent youth in a population of around 200 million and liberal economic and political policies had made the country a force multiplier for the economies of the region straddling across China, India and Middle East.
“Pakistan is also contributing towards regional and global peace with its blood and sweat by fighting the militancy in order to enable entrepreneurs invest in an environment of peace and stability,” the president said while addressing a plenary interactive session of the World Economic Forum at the Dead Sea resort

Must be a spelling mistake. He meant to say pakistan is a 'farce' multiplier for regional economies. :lol:


poor pakis and their strategic location mindset. :wink:

It's just like pissing yourself in a pair of dark trousers, you get a warm feeling but no one else notices!! :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:33

Where the Wild Frontiers Are: Pakistan and the American Imagination
Manan Ahmed (Author), Amitava Kumar (Introduction)

The relationship between Pakistan and the United State is perhaps one of the most complex in the modern world. "Where the Wild Frontiers Are: Pakistan and the American Imagination" is a collection of essays from Manan Ahmed as he speaks on this topic and this conflict of America the rest of the world, whether America is truly an empire, the conflicts within Pakistan, and the future of relations. "Where the Wild Frontiers Are" is a fascinating and much needed perspective on this international debate and its role in the world's future.

Over the past decade, Pakistan assumed increasing importance in American thinking as a perplexing part of the quagmire in which Washington's "AfPak" policy has became stuck. But Pakistan had its own history throughout these years, too: a history that was complex, enthralling, infuriating, and inspiring-- sometimes, all at once. And the country's 175 million people had their own view of the attempts that distant Washington was making to wield influence over their country's government and society... How lucky, then, that since 2004, a deeply informed Pakistani historian called Manan Ahmed has been casting his keen and always wry eye on the U.S.-Pakistani interaction on his blog, "Chapati Mystery."

Now, Ahmed has curated the most trenchant of these analyses into Where the Wild Frontiers Are: Pakistan and the American Imagination, a work that will forever change the way its American readers think about Pakistan.

In an Epilogue penned in May 2011, Ahmed offers some final reflections on the multiple meanings that the U.S. killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan at the beginning of the month had for the interaction between Pakistan and the 'West'.

In September 2010, Ahmed was reflecting on the "failure of imagination" on behalf of U.S. officials, to which the authors of the American 9/11 Commission report ascribed the officials' failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks. To combat terrorism, he noted, the report's authors thought American officials needed to work harder on developing a more specifically novelistic (à la Tom Clancy) kind of imagination: "the capacity to imagine this Other, to give them an interiority, a mindfulness, an agency, a history."

But it did not work out that way. Where the Wild Frontiers Are vividly captures the failure of most members of the U.S. elite to successfully "imagine" the reality of people's lives and society in Pakistan in this important way. Ahmed unsparingly criticizes most of the so-called "experts" who prognosticate about Pakistan and its region in the U.S. mainstream media. About Robert Kaplan, he writes that ""The empire... will surely invite him to speak to groups with shinier brass and shinier domes. The historians reading [his] book will have less cause to be charitable". A similar charge, he lays at the feet of Rory Stewart and Greg Mortenson.

Where the Wild Frontiers Are looks clear-headedly at U.S. imaginings about Pakistan-- and also at the big historical and political trends within Pakistan itself. The Lawyers' Movement, the self-destructive last days of Pervez Musharraf's presidency, the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the eruption of a vicious anti-Ahmadi pogrom, the disruptions and suffering caused by the 'Global War on Terror', the country's endless tangling with the complexities of its own past and meaning: All are the object of Ahmed's steady (and sometimes exasperated) gaze.

Between them, the book's ten chapters provide a compelling picture of the complexity of the U.S.-Pakistan entanglement in the first decade of this century.
About the Author
Manan Ahmed is a historian of Islam in South Asia. He received his PhD from the University of Chicago in 2008. Since 2009, he has taught at Freie Universität in Berlin. Currently, he is working on two monograph-length studies: "The Long Thirteenth Century of the Chachnama", and a cultural history of Pakistan. His essays and reviews on Pakistan, U.S. foreign policy, and empire have appeared in The Nation, The Guardian, The National (UAE), Express Tribune, Pakistan Today, The Caravan (New Delhi), and various online media around the world. He has also appeared numerous times on Radio and TV posing as an ‘expert’ on Pakistan or on Islam. He asks for your understanding. These are hard times we live in.

He started "Chapati Mystery" in 2004 as a space for culturally and historically situated political commentary on Pakistan. Chapati Mystery is a community of readers, critics, informed observers, people with a deep commitment to the political, the social and the humorous. Creating and sustaining that community is, Manan believes, his proudest achievement.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:34

ABC News
Pakistan Army hits back over ISAF allegations
The News International - Amir Mir - ‎Oct 21, 2011‎

LAHORE: Often under American pressure to stem cross-border raids from Pakistan-based Taliban militants, the Pakistan Army has finally hit back by saying that the US-led Allied Forces in Afghanistan are doing nothing to prevent cross-border raids

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:35

Levin: U.S. prepared to walk away from Pakistan
By Jason Ukman
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/che ... _blog.html
(Chip Somodevilla — Getty Images)
With Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and a power-packed delegation turning up the pressure on Pakistan, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee said Friday morning that the United States should be ready to abandon its partnership with Islamabad if the government does not change its ways.

Sen. Carl Levin (Mich.) said he hoped that Pakistan would see that it was in its own interests to preserve its military and economic relationship with the United States by publicly renouncing the Haqqani network and other groups that have launched attacks from across the Afghan border. But he also said that the government’s failure to do so would be a “show-stopper” for normal relations with Washington.

“Our response should be that if the only option Pakistan presents us is a choice between losing an ally and continuing to lose our troops, then we will choose the former,” Levin said in an address at the Council on Foreign Relations.

The address was part of the ever-rising rhetoric on all sides of the U.S.-Pakistan relationship.

Pakistan denies that elements of its government willingly provide safe havens to the Haqqani network, and the foreign minister recently said that if the Obama administration persists in such allegations, the United States “will lose an ally.”

Clinton on Thursday warned the Pakistanis that they would pay a “very big price” if they didn’t take action against militant groups.

Members of Congress, meantime, are threatening to turn off the aid spigot to Pakistan.

But actually turning away from a nuclear-armed country whose stability is seen as crucial to the war in Afghanistan has been another matter. Among other things, Pakistan serves as a crucial supply route for U.S. troops.

Levin, asked at the Council of Foreign Relations whether the prospect of severing ties with Pakistan was an empty threat, acknowledged it would be difficult. But he pointed to the U.S. ability to target militants without Pakistan’s help, noting reports about a series of drone strikes recently against the Haqqani network’s headquarters in Miran Shah, the capital of North Waziristan.

The United States, he added, “should be prepared to take steps to defend our troops.”

“We have the right to target not only forces and artillery attacking our forces in Afghanistan from across the border in Pakistan,” Levin said, “but to target the people controlling those forces as well.”

A copy of Levin’s prepared remarks can be found here.
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/speech ... n-will-not


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:40



Pak can't keep 'snakes' in backyard to attack neighbours: Hillary

The U.S has paid no heed to Pakistan's nuclear muscle flexing. Hillary Clinton has made it clear to her counterpart today that Islamabad cannot rear snakes in its backyard and expect them only to attack its neighbouring enemies.Pakistan has now struck a contrite pose.But will it bend to the U.S's bidding?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:43

Image

Clinton Widens Audience in Pakistan, but Sticks to Tough Message

Khalid Tanveer/Associated Press
Members of a Pakistani organization in Multan burned an effigy of Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton to protest her visit to Pakistan on Friday.
By STEVEN LEE MYERS
Published: October 21, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world ... ently.html
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — When Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton invited questions from a selected group of Pakistanis here on Friday, a woman in the audience humorously captured the essence of a very troubled relationship, at least from Pakistan’s point of view.
Related

“Somehow the U.S. is like a mother-in-law,” the woman said, prompting laughter and applause.

“We are trying to please you,” she explained, “and every time you come and visit us, and you tell us, ‘You’re not doing enough and need to work harder.’ ”

And for a second day, so Mrs. Clinton did, repeatedly calling on Pakistan’s government to shut down safe havens from which extremists have mounted attacks in Afghanistan and to support nascent efforts to negotiate with those extremists willing to lay down their arms.


Mrs. Clinton’s bountiful remarks — in a news conference with the country’s foreign minister, in the “town hall” meeting of business executives and civic leaders and in a round-table interview with television journalists — came a day after she, David H. Petraeus, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spent five hours with their Pakistani counterparts.

Despite the convergence of America’s top diplomatic, military and intelligence officials, the talks appeared to produce no immediate breakthrough in the deeply strained relationship.

The delegation, officials said, bluntly warned Pakistan that it faced a decisive choice between fighting alongside the United States — or watching as American forces act alone against the extremist Haqqani network, even inside Pakistan, if necessary. On Friday, Mrs. Clinton said that “for too long” the group had been able to operate freely.

“We asked very specifically for greater cooperation from the Pakistani side to squeeze the Haqqani network and other terrorists because we know that trying to eliminate terrorists and safe havens on one side of the border is not going to work,” she said, referring to Afghanistan. “You know, it’s like the old story: you can’t keep snakes in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbors.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:50

Pakistanis talking about "mistrust" ? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! When Osama Bin Laden was living in Pakistan's back yard the Pakistanis made every effort to lecture NATO and Afghanista­n how Osama Bin Laden was clearly "dead" and was killed in Afghanista­n all the while they had him right under their noses. Later after the CIA found him and took him out, the Pakistanis have the audacity to accuse the US and NATO of violating its "sovereign­ty" ? Apparently­, when Taliban and Al-Qaeda violate Pakistan's precious soverignit­y, then they have no worries but the moment NATO or the US tries to bring to justice the most dangerous terrorist in the world, the lying and two timing cretins decide to play the victim card rather than confess their duplicity!

The US and Afghanista­n today both see and fully comprehend the scope and the character of Pakistan destabiliz­ing, duplicitou­s and blatantly criminal activities carried out by its fundamenta­list quasi-mili­tary and intelligen­ce agencies that operate without any checks or balances. The Indians by contrast have shown remarkable patience, rationalit­y and honor in their conduct compared to Pakistan's routine treachery! With both the US and Afghanista­n welcoming Indian presence in Afghanista­n, Pakistan's opinion is irrelevant and merely self-servi­ng. It's high time we welcome the Indians in to play a more constructi­ve and stabilizin­g role in helping build a stable and prosperous Afghanista­n that is free from Pakistani military and intelligen­ce machinatio­ns.



India-Afghanistan-Pakistan: Not a Zero Sum Game

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aparna-pa ... 05091.html

Both India and Afghanistan are concerned about a significant withdrawal of American and NATO forces from Afghanistan by 2014 and both fear the return of the Taliban. Kabul's pursuit of a strategic partnership with New Delhi, the first with any country, needs to be seen in this context. In this backdrop, Mr Karzai's second trip to India in 2011 shows the desire for Afghanistan's policymakers to build close ties with regional allies in order to prepare for the future. As Mr Karzai stated, "Afghanistan recognizes the danger this region is facing through terrorism and the radicalism that is being used as an instrument of policy against civilians and innocent citizens of our country."

At the same time, both Kabul and New Delhi realize that ties with Rawalpindi-Islamabad are critical for peace in Afghanistan. This was reflected in President Karzai's recent statement that instead of speaking with the Taliban, Afghanistan should speak with Pakistan. And in his statement in New Delhi that "Pakistan is our twin brother, India is a great friend. The agreement we signed with our friend will not affect our brother." This is not the first time President Karzai has made these remarks referring to Pakistan as a twin and India as a friend.

Whether these remarks will reassure Pakistan's policy makers is a different matter. As veteran Pakistani analyst, Hasan Askari Rizvi remarked "there is so much Indian obsession in Pakistan that with every minor Indian move, there is panic." Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani's statement on the India-Afghan pact was that "Both are sovereign countries, they have the right to do whatever they want to." This reminded one of former Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi's remarks in 2009 when he said that Pakistan was "not concerned" by close India-U.S. ties as U.S. and Pakistan had been allies for 60 years. Behind these statements, the reality is that of Pakistani concerns about close ties between U.S. and Pakistan's neighbors -- India and Afghanistan -- which are perceived in Islamabad-Rawalpindi as being at Pakistan's expense.

Pakistan has always feared strategic encirclement -- the oft-quoted 'pincer movement' -- if India and Afghanistan develop close ties. In response, Pakistan's strategists have desired a pro-Pakistan (and anti-India) Afghan government which has led them down the path of seeking proxies, whether mujahideen, Afghan Taliban or the Haqqani network.

Pakistan has no reason to fear close ties between India and Afghanistan, as both countries benefit from and seek a stable, democratic and prosperous Pakistan. However, in trying to prevent India and Afghanistan from building close ties -- especially in the economic arena -- Pakistan may end up being left behind, instead of being encircled.

Similarly, while U.S. policymakers should be attuned to Pakistan's concerns, they should not make this a zero sum game where any close strategic ties between India and Afghanistan are not supported simply because of Pakistan. U.S. benefits from close ties between India and Afghanistan and so would Pakistan, if only it took off its blinkered India-centric glasses.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:53

Carl Levin: U.S. can hit targets in Pakistan

'[W]e should be prepared to take steps to defend our troops,' Levin says. | AP Photo Close
By MJ LEE | 10/21/11 11:44 AM EDT

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) signaled to Pakistani leaders Friday that the United States has a right to attack insurgents operating from that country if they pose a threat to American forces.

“If Pakistan will not take on the threat posed by the Haqqanis and other extremist groups based in Pakistan who attack our forces in Afghanistan, then we should be prepared to take steps to defend our troops,” the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said in remarks before the Council on Foreign Relations.


Levin said that based on international law, the U.S. has a right to defend its troops by responding to attacks that originate from groups hiding in safe havens in Pakistan.

“We have the right to target not only forces and artillery attacking our forces in Afghanistan from across the border in Pakistan, but to target the people controlling those forces as well,” he said, according to the text of his prepared remarks.

Quoting Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, Levin added: “The message [the Pakistanis] need to know is: We’re going to do everything we can to defend our forces.”



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/10 ... z1ba9a3YC9

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 10:59

Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan
Myra MacDonald
She came, she saw, she confounded: Clinton in Pakistan

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s recently concluded visit to Pakistan has left us none the wiser about how the United States and its allies will end the Afghan war. In her public comments, she spoke of action ”over the next days and weeks – not months and years, but days and weeks”. She promised the United States would tackle Taliban militants in eastern Afghanistan in response to a long-standing Pakistani complaint that Washington had neglected the region when it decided to concentrate its forces in population centres in southern Afghanistan in 2010 (remember “government in a box”?)
.

She called, in return, for cooperation on the Pakistani side of the border to ”squeeze these terrorists so that they cannot attack and kill any Pakistani, any Afghan, any American, or anyone.” Between the two countries, they would tackle the Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani network and the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), or Pakistani Taliban.

But squeeze them to what end? To weaken all but the hard-core leadership of the Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani network so that they agree to lay down arms and rejoin the political process in Afghanistan? Or to entice them into serious negotiations through which they might be offered a share of power in Kabul, or accommodated in a “soft partition” of Afghanistan (an idea deeply unpopular among Afghans) which leaves them in control of the south and the east?

As Pakistani columnist Ejaz Haider wrote in Pakistan Today just before Clinton arrived, the current U.S. policy looks a bit like the dialogue between Alice and the Cheshire Cat. “‘Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?’ asked Alice. ‘That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,’ said the Cat. ‘I don’t much care where—’ said Alice. ‘Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,’ said the Cat.”

True, Clinton stressed the need for a peace process to reach a political settlement in Afghanistan. But that idea has been on the diplomatic agenda for nearly two years. By the second half of last year, we were hearing that the United States had endorsed talkswith all of Afghanistan’s main insurgent groups, including the Haqqani network. By January this year, western countries said there would be no preconditions set for insurgents entering peace talks – only end-conditions that they sever ties with al Qaeda, renounce violence and agree to respect the Afghan constitution. In February, Clinton stressed the need for negotiations in a landmark speech to the Asia Society which coincided with reports the United States had begun direct talks with the Taliban.

In other words, we have heard a lot about talk about talks without any explanation as to why these have achieved so little so far (some blame U.S. military strategy, others Pakistani interference, others Taliban intransigence, others poor Afghan governance). And the danger is that as long as these talks about talks continue without yielding results, all parties to the Afghan conflict arm themselves up in readiness for an escalating civil war.

True, Clinton admitted in public during her visit to Islamabad that the United States had held a preliminary meeting with representatives of the Haqqani network. But we already knew that. According to The Washington Post, U.S. officials met Ibrahim Haqqani, the brother of the group’s patriarch, Jalaluddin Haqqani, in a Gulf kingdom in August. The meeting was arranged by the head of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, Lieutenant General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who also attended, it reported.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby SSridhar » 23 Oct 2011 11:00

jrjrao wrote:But what galls is the open and guiltless recourse to a "sardar" joke. One would think that such stereotyping crassness would be a no-no, that too by somebody this high profile, and in an op-ed in a national daily.
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/10 ... stan-game/

He once wrote an op-ed piece in DT on penile lengths and how Pakistanis outdid Indians in that department. Then, there is this other more brilliant piece, http://alaiwah.wordpress.com/2010/08/20 ... az-haider/.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 11:01

There’s Grand Bargain being proposed by the Schaffers, former diplomats: http://bit.ly/phRJ6v
While it’s an imaginative proposal, it’s doubtful how successful it will be on the ground. It needs sincerity on the part of everyone concerned to succeed. Given the trust deficit on all sides, that’s a tall order.
Let me make a provocative comment from an Indian POV.
What if India says no to every such proposal? The situation in AfPak and Kashmir is NOT a stalemate from the Indian perspective. Things are moving in India’s favour. Both the US and Pakistan are losing, in different ways. One country is losing the war, or at least visibly failing to achieve even its modest objectives, and the costs are becoming unsustainable. The other country is losing control of itself and sliding into chaos and bankruptcy. India alone is unaffected. So why should India settle early? If India waits, in the end, it will have it all – all of Kashmir on its own terms, a Pakistan on its knees and economically captive to India, world recognition of India’s pre-eminence in South Asia, and a China deprived of its Pakistani lever and forced to cooperate with the unquestioned power to its south. The West will also engage very differently, with a lot more respect and a lot less leverage. Longer-term, India holds all the cards.
The pressure is greatest on the US to settle early and cut their losses while being able to claim victory. That’s why the proposals are flowing thick and fast from the Americans.
The pressure has started mounting cruelly on the Pakistani people but the establishment is still isolated enough to keep up their rhetoric. That’s why Pakistan is still playing the spoiler although many voices there have begun sounding warnings that this is foolishness. Another couple of years and reality will start to bite the establishment as well. Their power is crumbling but they are currently in denial.
India, on the contrary, is under no pressure at all.
Afghanistan is not a problem for India. It was never ‘ours’, but the work India has done there has won the ‘hearts and minds’ of the Afghans the way neither the US nor Pakistan has been able to do. Once Pakistan’s power collapses, it will be possible to earn the dividend on that investment.
Kashmir is not a problem either. In the worst case, India can continue to hold it the way it has done over the last many decades in the face of external aggression, fomented insurgencies and perhaps even some local discontent. In time, the view of Kashmiris will also change. They are already seeing the differences between India and Pakistan. One country is growing and offers opportunities for education and economic advancement. The other is sinking into a morass of violence and economic stagnation. In a couple of years, a plebiscite in Kashmir may end up being extremely embarrassing for Pakistan if Kashmiris on both sides opt for becoming part of India. It’s within the realm of possibility that India can take all of Kashmir with legitimacy.
What about the much feared Pakistani nukes? If Pakistan senses that it is about to lose everything, they (i.e., a few fanatics in the GHQ) might decided it’s better to take India down with it rather than live with Indian ‘hegemony’. I actually think the Pakistani nukes are a chimera because they were supplied by China, and China is smart enough not to part with the codes. In other words, I don’t believe Pakistan can launch its nuclear weapons without a nod from China. The nukes are there as a bargaining chip. They cannot actually be used.
I believe India should not blink now. Its leaders should recognise the strength of its position (strengthening further with time), and hold out for the grand prize.
It’s only under the peace and stability of a Pax Indica that the people of South Asia will benefit and their living standards will begin to improve. How does that sound as a solution?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby member_19648 » 23 Oct 2011 11:01

Acharya wrote:
Levin: U.S. prepared to walk away from Pakistan

“We have the right to target not only forces and artillery attacking our forces in Afghanistan from across the border in Pakistan,” Levin said, “but to target the people controlling those forces as well.”



From where would the terrorists/haqqanis get artillery, I always thought artillery was procured and used by regular armies. The US knows direct involvement of the PA in attacking their troops but is too intelligent to rest the blame on some FORCE across the border. Now, everyone is confused because the parties involved clearly don't know what to do or how to go about Pakis. Hamid Karzai has never strongly criticized Pakis, the best was once when he threatened Pakis with retaliatory action when their artillery was killing innocent people in Afg. But the next day itself, he went all ga ga in the press about how relation with Pakis is important for stability, security blah blah blah. Maybe he doesn't trust the US and the US never came out with a strong direction to its actions! Now afg govt thinks they would be overrun in a few days with their national guards as useless as anything so he is trying to ensure there is no lamp post for him, the Pakis had openly threatened them to join them once US was gone. On the other hand, Afg wants strategic partnership with India and US, as if the Pakis go down and disintegrate, there should be someone to protect them. Looks like GOI and MMS are not the only confused ones having decision paralysis, the great SAM and his strategic poodle Afg are worse, if not ==.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 11:04

Afghanistan Clinton
Hillary Clinton unveiled a new objective for Afghanistan that's being dubbed "fight, talk, build," with fight being the major emphasis.

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headli ... 35328.html
(CNN) -- Hillary Clinton unveiled a new objective for Afghanistan that's being dubbed "fight, talk, build," with fight being the major emphasis.

The U.S. secretary of state said Thursday in Kabul, Afghanistan, that all three objectives need to done simultaneously and that the fighting will aim at both sides of the Pakistani border.

"Under the circumstances, we must do all three at the same time," Clinton said. "So we want a very clear message to the insurgents on both sides of the border that we are going to fight you, and we are going to seek you in your safe havens, whether you're on the Afghan side or the Pakistani side. They must be dealt with."

As part of that, Clinton said, U.S. and NATO troops are taking the fight to the Haqqanis. A "major military operation" in recent days is aimed at "rounding up and eliminating Haqqani operatives on this side of the border," she said.

"We are taking action to target Haqqani leadership on both sides of the border. We are moving toward a very international effort to squeeze the Haqqanis with the funding and other aspects of the operations. So, I think there is a lot going on that will be more apparent in days and weeks ahead," Clinton said.

Clinton was clear that the focus was now on the Haqqanis' safe havens in Pakistan.

While she and other American officials have been critical of Pakistani support for the Haqqani network, Clinton told CNN's Foreigh Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty that Pakistan was helpful in fight al Qaeda, the primary focus until recently for the United States.

"Up until recently, the primary focus of our efforts in Pakistan were the dismantling and defeat of al Qaeda, and the Pakistanis were helpful. They were cooperative and have continued to be as we have been successful in not only removing Osama bin Laden but others that were principal leaders of al Qaeda. So we do think we've severely damaged al Qaeda," Clinton said.

Clinton said now was the time to confront the Pakistani government and push it to act against the Haqqanis.

"In recent months, we've seen the Haqqani network turn from being a fighting force to one that is deliberately targeting American targets, like this embassy that we're sitting in. We cannot tolerate that. And the safe haven in Pakistan from which they launch these attacks has nothing to do with the Taliban coming back into Afghanistan," she said. "It has nothing to do with Pakistan hedging against India or whatever the explanation is. It has to do with this group that has a safe haven in Pakistan targeting Americans. And that changes the calculation for us, and

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby svinayak » 23 Oct 2011 11:11

Terror Generation in Pakistan
Ehsan Azari Stanizai
October 20, 2011
http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/3824.cfm
On October 10, The Financial Times in an opinion piece naively put the blame of all these wrongdoings on a section of ISI dubbed "S wing" and hinted that its elimination would prevent Pakistan from this policy. The paper added that in a "flurry of phone calls and emails" Pakistani President Asaf Ali Zardari recently offered elimination of the S wing to the Obama administration.

The experience of the past decade shows that the velvet-glove treatment by the United Staten has spoiled rotten the Pakistani military and spies. They are expert at grabbing American coins and then running amok. Pakistan's humiliation of Osama bin Laden's killing happening within the sight of the ISI has demonstrated how this policy has gone adrift.
The brazenness of the recent attacks in Kabul, including an attack on the U.S. embassy by the ISI-backed Haqqani network, suggests that they might have been orchestrated by the ISI as part of its strategy of a post-U.S. Afghanistan in order to corrode Western and NATO resolve and win a psychological victory for the Taliban. A dysfunctional government in Kabul and the beginning of the Western military drawdown in Afghanistan has given the ISI and the Taliban a powerful incentive to believe that they are on the threshold of victory.
Some analysts prescribe a regional solution. That prescription is a mirage, for each neighbor seeks to promote its own geostrategic agendas.
Amid all this gloom, there is still time now for the West to devise a tough and decisive policy in order to break the nexus between the Pakistani army and the militants. No country has the right to tie up its national interests with violence and terrorism. Such a policy—coupled with the reforming of Afghan President Hamid Karzai's regime in Kabul and a meaningful negotiation with the Taliban, which is fighting inside Afghanistan—could put an end to the long war in Afghanistan. At present, Karzai represents the warlord vision of Afghanistan.
Dr. Ehsan Azari teaches 20th-century philosophy at Mosman College in Sydney, Australia.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 23 Oct 2011 11:27

ISI facilitated US-Haqqani network dialogue?
Islamabad: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told senior Pakistani parliamentarians that it was the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) which had facilitated Washington’s dialogue with the Haqqani militant network, a media report has said.

During her interaction with Pakistani parliamentarians on Friday, Hillary disclosed that the ISI had facilitated a meeting between senior member of the Haqqani network and Washington, but the process was suspended following the recent terror attack on the US embassy in Kabul, The News reports.

“After these attacks we suspended the dialogue process,” Hillary was quoted as saying by one of the sources, who was present in the meeting.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 23 Oct 2011 11:42

New civilian spy chief appointed
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani on Saturday appointed Aftab Sultan as director-general of the Intelligence Bureau – a key civilian domestic spy agency responsible for counter-intelligence and national security.

Before his new assignment, Aftab Sultan – who is replacing Javed Noor – was serving as additional inspector-general of the Punjab police. He has also worked in the Special Branch for eight years, and was in charge of the team that had investigated the multi-billion-rupee Punjab Bank scam.

Sultan’s name was picked from a list of three senior police officials – the two others being Javed Iqbal, IG Punjab police, and Rao Amin Hashim, IG Balochistan police.


The appointment of the IB chief has always been closely monitored, especially by political circles, because the agency has allegedly been used in the past for the making and breaking of political alliances.

Political circles and IB officials have welcomed Sultan’s appointment.


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