Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 30 Oct 2011 13:42

US doesn't have permission for drone strikes: Yuosuf Raza Gilani
PERTH: Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has categorically said no permission has been given to the US to launch drone strikes inside Pakistan's territory.

"There is no such permission," the Associated Press of Pakistan quoted Gilani as telling a group of Pakistani expatriates Saturday.

According to reports, at least 55-60 drone strikes have taken place in Pakistan in 2011. Over 460 people, most of them believed to be militants, have been killed in the strikes.

"Unlike the policies of the past when things started rolling with a single telephone call from the US, now we seek mandate of the parliament and take decisions with consensus," he said. :rotfl:

Gilani said there has been a sea change in the country's foreign policy towards terrorism.

"There has been a paradigm shift in the policy between a democratic government and a dictatorial regime," he said, referring to the army rule of Pervez Musharraf.

The people of Pakistan and the parliament were now the "ultimate" arbitrators to take decisions of national importance, he said.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shravan » 30 Oct 2011 14:24

ISI hacked e-mails of German police in Afghanistan

Pakistan's ISI systematically eavesdropped on the telephone communication and hacked into the e-mails of the German police mission in Afghanistan and passed on the highly confidential and militarily sensitive information to the Taliban, a media report said today.

The Pakistani intelligence service had advance information about German President Christian Wulff's visit to Afghanistan two weeks ago and conveyed it to the Taliban, even though the visit was kept a top secret by the authorities until he landed in Kabul, Bild newspaper reported.

....
A spokesman for the German Interior Ministry confirmed that it had received a warning from the BND on October 11, shortly before Wulff's visit, that a Pakistani intelligence service may be in possession of extracts from the e-mail communication between the German police force in Afghanistan and the Interior Ministry in Berlin, Bild said.

The information received by the BND on the ISI's espionage activities were "astonishingly concrete," it said.

The Pakistani intelligence service had access to detailed information about around 180 German police personnel stationed in Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif, Kundus and Feyzabad, the paper said.

It listened to their private telephone conversation between Afghanistan and Germany, kept a watch on their reports to the Interior Ministry and their military operations and obtained a complete list of the German police contingent, it said.

These revelations support the view that the ISI "until today passes on militarily sensitive information to the Taliban," Bild said quoting a security expert in Berlin.

The newspaper said the German police force may be partly responsible for Pakistan's espionage activities because they communicated in the past on unprotected lines to reduce costs and thereby "opened the doors" to the ISI.

Shortly after the warning by the BND, all four GPPT locations received brand new computers with the most modern software for encrypted communication, it said.

President Wulff was not aware of Pakistan's spying on the German police mission when he visited their training centre in Mazar-e-Sharif. The German Interior Ministry decided not to inform him about the breach of security, Bild said.

Pakistan's penetration into the communication network of the German police contingent was detected by accident. Computer experts tracked down the ISI's footprint when they examined several computers which became extremely slow.

To what extent the ISI collected data about the German police force in Afghanistan and passed them over to the Taliban will be of interest also for Germany's NATO partners operating in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), Bild said.

The German police communicates not only with the German soldiers in the ISAF, but maintains close contacts with the military leadership of the United States and the NATO in Afghanistan through two liaison offices.
Last edited by shravan on 30 Oct 2011 14:32, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Anindya » 30 Oct 2011 14:25

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Boy-files-PIL-in-Pak-against-making-Islamic-studies-a-must/articleshow/10537413.cms

ISLAMABAD: A Hindu boy has filed a petition in a Pakistani court challenging a rule that stipulates a student must have a certificate in Islamic studies to be eligible to appear for entrance tests to medical colleges.

A division bench of the Sindh High Court admitted Sagar Ladhani's petition on Friday and provisionally allowed him to appear in an upcoming test for admission to an MBBS course. In his petition, Ladhani challenged the rule that students have to study "Islamiat" at the O-level to get an equivalence certificate from local education boards to appear in entrance tests for medical colleges

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rajdeep » 30 Oct 2011 15:05

Acharya wrote:Image
Fatima Bhutto slams Hina Rabbani Khar
Published: October 5, 2011
http://tribune.com.pk/story/267597/fati ... bani-khar/
.....................................


Please sir Halloween is a kafir celebration , refrain from putting up such 'HO'rrific faces in posts. :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 30 Oct 2011 16:31

Rajdeep
These are not horrific faces, but beautiful masks. You see, Halloween for the Pakis is reverse of what their ally does at home.

Take of these masks and then faint at the horrific faces you will encounter. :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rajdeep » 30 Oct 2011 16:44

rajanb wrote:Rajdeep
These are not horrific faces, but beautiful masks. You see, Halloween for the Pakis is reverse of what their ally does at home.

Take of these masks and then faint at the horrific faces you will encounter. :rotfl:


Saar you missed the "HO"rrific reference onlee

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 30 Oct 2011 16:47

shiv wrote:
rajanb wrote:but their politcal leaders who have weakened the US.


I just wonder. The US has described Pakistan as ally ally ally ally ally ally ally ally for decades. Now suddenly they are saying that Pakistan has been fooling them for years.

Someone in the US administration is going to have to have his ass chewed off for this stupidity. A series of governments across party lines have supported the "ally" story. Now who would want to admit being stupid? So the US will have to put on a stiff upper lip and not make any sudden changes while hoping that all turns out well an that they can somehow get away by making some cosmetic moves.

This is what I suspect will happen.


I was always of the opinion that the US and Paki administrations had one thing in common. To protect H&D at all costs. A part of the glue which makes them describe each other as allies.

Hence my earlier post that the only way the US can do anything is ratchet it up slowly. Which seems to be the case and it will be mainly covert, and to borrow your term, a part of the "hidden war".

It might even be the case, where the US, to prevent itself from looking even more stupid, trumpet the hits against the bad taliban (with ISI inputs) and keep quiet about the hits against the good taliban. Good and bad being relative and defined by the Pakis.

This way Clinton's strategy of fight and talk would be seen as the "winning" strategy.

What the US public needs now is an exposure of the truth on the "ally business", where again billions of $$$ have been spent with an ROI of close to zero.....Call it Pakigate or Allygate!
Last edited by rajanb on 30 Oct 2011 16:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 30 Oct 2011 16:48

Rajdeep my bad :D Damn tubelight, I am

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 30 Oct 2011 16:55

US drone strikes again, 6 killed in North Waziristan
US drones targeted a vehicle and a compound in North Waziristan tribal region of Pakistan today, killing six suspected militants, officials said.

The CIA-operated spy planes fired six missiles at the house and the vehicle in Datta Khel area, which has witnessed numerous drone attacks over the past two years.

The missile strike occurred in an area located a few kilometres from Miranshah, the main town in the tribal district.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 30 Oct 2011 17:03

rajanb wrote:Rajdeep
These are not horrific faces, but beautiful masks. You see, Halloween for the Pakis is reverse of what their ally does at home.

Take of these masks and then faint at the horrific faces you will encounter. :rotfl:

What beautiful? :roll:

Both are ugly screwed up in-bred breeds! There is nothing beautiful about them! Mr. Khar looks like a man with makeup and Ms Fatima looks like she had an ill-fitting jaw replacement! These "women" happen to be just two of the many millions of ugly Pakistanis out there! What beautiful!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dilbu » 30 Oct 2011 17:11

Kuldip Nayyar in WKK mode.
Pakistan, India and Afghanistan
Hillary Clinton’s advice to Islamabad to eliminate them in days or weeks and not in months or years is a tall order. The British could not do so, nor could the Soviet Union. Pakistan is in comparison a small power. Also, Islamabad has to think of the nation’s reaction. The fundamentalists have acquired a solid support over the years and even the military has not remained immune from their influence. As for the public in Pakistan, it is sick of terrorism and what it has done to the society. This makes it all the more necessary for India and Pakistan to discuss America’s long-term policy in the region. There should be no two opinions on Afghanistan’s sovereignty and independence. Unfortunately, Islamabad is suspicious of New Delhi’s intentions and believes that it is trying to surround Pakistan through Afghanistan. The entire hypothesis is preposterous. Kabul is New Delhi’s strategic partner, not its strategic depth which Islamabad expects Afghanistan to be.

America is going to be more aggressive as the days go by and probably will not quit Afghanistan altogether. This is as dangerous for Islamabad and Kabul as for New Delhi. Washington’s presence in the region is ominous. {Ominous for TSP there for == says for India too, hainji?} :roll: Therefore, India and Pakistan should first meet to clear their apprehensions and then include Afghanistan in the talks to discuss how to oust foreign troops from the region.
As the first step, the three should join hands to defeat terrorism, which has taken roots in the region. Maybe Islamabad, not London, should convene the meeting and invite the countries concerned, including Iran, to discuss how to eliminate terrorism. New Delhi should help Islamabad in this endeavour.
:-?

There is no alternative to good relations between India and Pakistan. The earlier the two countries realise this, the better it would be for them and the region. America has made it clear by attacking countries, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, that it will use its might to serve ‘its purpose’, whatever that means. The countries, either in the Middle East or South Asia, have not reacted to Washington’s blandishments. The region does not look like it is waking up.
The writer is a syndicated columnist and a former member of India’s Rajya Sabha

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 30 Oct 2011 17:16

When one gets older, one's standards drop. But even with dropped standards I don't think Mr "Tim Riley" Khar and Bony-face Bhutto are actually good loking. One is a woman and the other is said to be one and dresses like one - I'll give that much. Good looking? Come on. These are not "good looking".

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 30 Oct 2011 17:35

:eek: I used the word masks! I didn't say they were good looking! :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 30 Oct 2011 18:27

rajanb wrote::eek: I used the word masks! I didn't say they were good looking! :rotfl:


In my younger days my standards were very high, among other things. If I apply those standards here I would not give these ugly bags a second glance. :P

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rajdeep » 30 Oct 2011 21:30

Surprising turn this thread has taken :eek: ( I know its my mistake onleee) :rotfl:
Lets change the topic or else mod gods will be smite thee.
Whats the update on the score this week ? :twisted:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby chetak » 30 Oct 2011 21:40

Dilbu wrote:Kuldip Nayyar in WKK mode.
Pakistan, India and Afghanistan
Hillary Clinton’s advice to Islamabad to eliminate them in days or weeks and not in months or years is a tall order. The British could not do so, nor could the Soviet Union. Pakistan is in comparison a small power. Also, Islamabad has to think of the nation’s reaction. The fundamentalists have acquired a solid support over the years and even the military has not remained immune from their influence. As for the public in Pakistan, it is sick of terrorism and what it has done to the society. This makes it all the more necessary for India and Pakistan to discuss America’s long-term policy in the region. There should be no two opinions on Afghanistan’s sovereignty and independence. Unfortunately, Islamabad is suspicious of New Delhi’s intentions and believes that it is trying to surround Pakistan through Afghanistan. The entire hypothesis is preposterous. Kabul is New Delhi’s strategic partner, not its strategic depth which Islamabad expects Afghanistan to be.

America is going to be more aggressive as the days go by and probably will not quit Afghanistan altogether. This is as dangerous for Islamabad and Kabul as for New Delhi. Washington’s presence in the region is ominous. {Ominous for TSP there for == says for India too, hainji?} :roll: Therefore, India and Pakistan should first meet to clear their apprehensions and then include Afghanistan in the talks to discuss how to oust foreign troops from the region.
As the first step, the three should join hands to defeat terrorism, which has taken roots in the region. Maybe Islamabad, not London, should convene the meeting and invite the countries concerned, including Iran, to discuss how to eliminate terrorism. New Delhi should help Islamabad in this endeavour.
:-?

There is no alternative to good relations between India and Pakistan. The earlier the two countries realise this, the better it would be for them and the region. America has made it clear by attacking countries, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, that it will use its might to serve ‘its purpose’, whatever that means. The countries, either in the Middle East or South Asia, have not reacted to Washington’s blandishments. The region does not look like it is waking up.
The writer is a syndicated columnist and a former member of India’s Rajya Sabha



This old bugger is habitually on some strong herbal stuff.

Could he be getting it from afghanistan??

may his piles continue to bother him. :twisted:

Does his crap run in any Indian newspaper??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Oct 2011 21:56

There was a time Ms Fatima Bhutto was proposed as a perfect breeding mate for Rahul Gandhi prince-ling. Apparently peace and hearts would be united/melted from this union. Would have been quite the breeding. The mind and imagination boggles.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ManjaM » 30 Oct 2011 22:01

Theo_Fidel wrote:There was a time Ms Fatima Bhutto was proposed as a perfect breeding mate for Rahul Gandhi prince-ling. Apparently peace and hearts would be united/melted from this union. Would have been quite the breeding. The mind and imagination boggles.

imagine if beauty from the Ms and IQ from the Mr came together. Fallen straight out of the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down and landed on the head.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby GopiD » 30 Oct 2011 22:45

shiv wrote:
No need to go haywire actually. You have done the usual thing. You have spoken of the US's purported strengths and possible weaknesses, and of known Indian weaknesses. What you have not mentioned is Pakistan's strength, which is non-zero.

You have also chosen to link the US's impotence to India's impotence which is a fake argument. The US's impotence against Pakistan is the US's impotence against a Pakistan that has received US aid. India impotence against Pakistan is India's impotence against a Pakistan that has received US aid.

If US aid is removed the degree of impotence of both India and the US will decrease.

For reasons incomprehensible to me, the US counts aid to Pakistan as an improvement in US security. India counts US aid to Pakistan as a decrease in Indian security. The Indian argument is clear to me.

It is the absolute stupidity of the US viewpoint that seeks to aid Pakistan and yet laments that Pakistan is a security threat that makes me laugh at the irony.

My views on this are crystal clear. Only a deep and blind admiration of the US can make anyone fail to see the contradiction in the US game plan. One could say "The US is impotent wrt to Pakistan because of its own policies. India is impotent with regard to Pakistan at least in some small part because of US aid"

Remove US aid to Pakistan and everyone gets stronger wrt Pakistan.Pakistan gets weaker. Now what is it that prevents the US from stopping aid to Pakistan? Is it a desire to dominate the world? Dominate India? Or just plain stupidity?


Absolutely perfect explanation. Shivji, I agree 500% (Mush style) with what you have said and it's the absolute truth.

But, I still don't want to count down the fact that US has many choke points and still has the capacity to finish or at least weaken the paki pigs/TSPA... just like what you have said, with the cut off of the AID...... and I will fervently hope at least the local dada takes on this hoodlum, for I can't see myself nor my family members taking on this punk........

What to do...... me being the mango perceived-to-be impotent Indian who is not even at the border to take out a few pigs to vent out my frustration....

Sorry for the rant people. Thanks for the illuminating post Shivji......made me see the light.....

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby GopiD » 30 Oct 2011 22:51

rajanb wrote:Doc, I go with plain stupidity and the fact that the Pakis have the US by the short hairs and do give it a painful tug, once in a while.

It has been fascinating to see US administration, after administration falling for the Paki whares. Sometimes I wonder if there is something the Pakis have on the Americans. So when thieves fall apart, this is the scenario that results.

It is not the American armed forces which are weak (CRamS, music to your ears :wink: ) but their politcal leaders who have weakened the US.


Sorry for the intrusion Rajanji....but if we replace the US with India in the above post, we can see that the statements still hold true..... :rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Cosmo_R » 30 Oct 2011 23:26

shiv wrote:When one gets older, one's standards drop. But even with dropped standards I don't think Mr "Tim Riley" Khar and Bony-face Bhutto are actually good loking. One is a woman and the other is said to be one and dresses like one - I'll give that much. Good looking? Come on. These are not "good looking".


Agreed. These wimmenz by most standards are hags. You'd suspect they have mustaches where they should not grow.

Butt :) bony faced bhutto has 'porcelain skin' so beloved of our media worthies who routinely refer to certain Indian actresses as 'dusky'. So you see what gets my goat (no pun intended here) is that HT and ToI perpetrate the TFTA whether it is imran kahn or sunroof-lever martyred b2 or various other paki spawn.

The other day I happened ot glance at an article about some idiot name Neil Nitin whatever who claimed that he was harassed in NYC by the immigration people at JFK who would not believe he was Indian because his skin was white. :)

Shades of angrezi rule wot? I thought at least this generation would have gotten over the scar they left.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby anmol » 31 Oct 2011 00:43

ranjbe wrote:An interesting follow-up to Mansoor Ijaz's Op-Ed in UK Financial Times, in today's The News. It seems Dus Percenti's letter to Mullen/Obama after OBL capture and death by US, is indeed genuine, and Dus Percenti wanted US help to get rid of Kiyani and downsize the ISI.
Big storms sometimes begin deceptively small and then in no time become monsters, ruthlessly devouring the unprepared, the unsuspecting. Are Mansoor Ijaz’s revelations in the Financial Times something similar? He claims to have delivered an SOS message from President Zardari to President Obama at the behest of a top diplomat and says that he was specifically asked to approach Admiral Mike Mullen because Mullen could influence both Obama and Gen Kayani. “The memo was delivered to Admiral Mullen at 14.00 hrs on May 10”, wrote Mansoor, saying the very next day in Washington, Mullen had a meeting with “Pakistani national security officials” who had no clue at the time that their meeting had been spawned by a secret presidential memo. Rawalpindi too learnt of the memo months later when Mansoor went cautiously public in the FT.

And a lot has happened since my column last week. When asked bluntly about the memo, Secretary Clinton manoeuvred evasively by neither denying nor confirming the memo. And we all know what that really means in case of a critical question at such a diplomatic level.

With the basics settled, the focus would shift to the memo’s contents. If the details trickling out are to be believed, we apparently do not have a gun but a smoking bazooka on our hands. The contents are so toxic that they could well float into the realm of treason. The memo supposedly has it all, including the promised change of security establishment (read: sacking of Kayani & Co). Even speculations about allowing nuclear security retooling, or American boots on the ground, are tantamount to political blasphemy, so imagine the devastating consequences when such offers are found written in black and white. “It’s an impossibly desperate dream menu rather than a memo,” says someone credible in Islamabad. Everything appears to be real, everything is now on the record. The problem, and the beauty of today’s digital existence, is that every little scrap of data gets preserved with the simple click of a key, instantly transforming seemingly inconsequential exchanges into key-evidence. One click and BlackBerries can turn into poison berries.


The memo Epicentre

Mohammad Malick

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=74433&Cat=9

The FT OpEd:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5ea9b804-f351-11e0-b11b-00144feab49a.html#axzz1bqSHuV9Z



Part II of that :-

The memo Epicentre [P-II] by Mohammad Malick
October 26, 2011

Big storms sometimes begin deceptively small and then in no time become monsters, ruthlessly devouring the unprepared, the unsuspecting. Are Mansoor Ijaz’s revelations in the Financial Times something similar? He claims to have delivered an SOS message from President Zardari to President Obama at the behest of a top diplomat and says that he was specifically asked to approach Admiral Mike Mullen because Mullen could influence both Obama and Gen Kayani. “The memo was delivered to Admiral Mullen at 14.00 hrs on May 10”, wrote Mansoor, saying the very next day in Washington, Mullen had a meeting with “Pakistani national security officials” who had no clue at the time that their meeting had been spawned by a secret presidential memo. Rawalpindi too learnt of the memo months later when Mansoor went cautiously public in the FT.
For its part, political Islamabad kept pretending all these months as if it had done nothing out of the ordinary. Even the explosive FT disclosure was dismissed as a “blatant lie by a self-promoting individual”, as put by an important federal minister. Rawalpindi also pretended as if it had not noticed anything unusual but on the quiet, the system went into overdrive to ferret out facts. Washington was mum, as nobody had asked it for an explanation. And just when things misleadingly appeared to be settling into an inconsequential political groove, Hillary Clinton came calling.
And a lot has happened since my column last week. When asked bluntly about the memo, Secretary Clinton manoeuvred evasively by neither denying nor confirming the memo. And we all know what that really means in case of a critical question at such a diplomatic level. Within the last week the memo issue is also no longer confined to two messengers. Heavyweights have entered the fray and the buzz is that in a lovely European capital, relevant people huddled for hours in meetings, which may well irreversibly influence the political landscape back home. There seem to be no more doubts about the veracity of the memo. All suspicions and apprehensions seem to have been removed. The FT people would be laughing.
With the basics settled, the focus would shift to the memo’s contents. If the details trickling out are to be believed, we apparently do not have a gun but a smoking bazooka on our hands. The contents are so toxic that they could well float into the realm of treason. The memo supposedly has it all, including the promised change of security establishment (read: sacking of Kayani & Co). Even speculations about allowing nuclear security retooling, or American boots on the ground, are tantamount to political blasphemy, so imagine the devastating consequences when such offers are found written in black and white. “It’s an impossibly desperate dream menu rather than a memo,” says someone credible in Islamabad. Everything appears to be real, everything is now on the record. The problem, and the beauty of today’s digital existence, is that every little scrap of data gets preserved with the simple click of a key, instantly transforming seemingly inconsequential exchanges into key-evidence. One click and BlackBerries can turn into poison berries.
What happens in the larger context will perhaps languidly manifest itself, and over a stretched period of time, but what does appear imminent is that those aspiring for grander future roles could soon end up losing even their current lofty perches. And judging from the severity of circumstances, Islamabad should feel exceptionally relieved if the demanded ‘corrective measures’ stopped at this. But it remains a highly unlikely eventuality. It’s not as if the original ‘official’ messenger hasn’t been in the midst of some really dangerous situations in the past as well, but this time around he appears to have made the cardinal mistake of choosing the wrong ‘unofficial messenger’ for conveying his master’s potentially self-destructive message. And therefore penance will be his to pay, the cross for him to carry.
Meanwhile, all fact-finding is over. The Big ones will now sit to eventually reshape the contours of the country’s future ruling structure. Of course, institutional queries will be made, questions posed, but it will be more of a formality as the answers to the yet unasked questions are already known. So what happens next, is the real question here.
In a related development, the office of National Security Advisor in each country was being perceived as the perfect focal point to coordinate strategy between India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and the US. Where needed, the office would have been created, or resurrected. With the four NSAs coordinating matters and even bypassing certain institutions and offices protocol-wise higher than their own, matters were expected to move at a much faster pace and in the desired direction. In the envisaged scheme of things, the NSA’s office would have been second in power only to that of the president and hence the desperate attempt to secure this all-important office. But for now at least, the concept appears a dead horse.
Exhaustive background interviews with those in the know reveal that a clear understanding now exists on what really needs to be done to put brakes on this runaway mandated autocracy passing itself off as elected democracy. The prevailing geopolitical situation however is momentarily staying the increasingly edgy hand. But for how long such international considerations will thwart domestic compulsions, is anybody’s guess. It was also shared that the public stance notwithstanding, privately the superpower’s interlocutors had been indicating their “ease” with dealing with “someone with real authority being directly in charge of things”. But the Mullen blow up has forced a mindset of extreme caution in Rawalpindi’s dealings with Washington even though the US political policy in the region is being dictated by its military and intelligence organs, both being areas of relative comfort for Rawalpindi.
The earlier professed desire of allowing democrats unfettered freedom to run things is also no longer being expressed by those who truly matter. Is the change of views being caused primarily by the growing pressure of increasingly restless colleagues, or is it based on a realistic reassessment of ground realities and complete disenchantment with the political masters? I asked someone extremely close to the alpha general, and he responded, “He is not someone who rigidly remains wedded to any notion without merit. He also does not leave things to chance or fate, or scores unsettled, and will not move a step on anything till he has carefully thought his way through, factored in all consequences of both, moving forward too fast, or even staying still for too long”.
There remains an institutional apprehension about political Islamabad rolling a desperate dice and causing a change at the top if too many questions are asked at this point about the memo. While there may be a few differing voices on this count, an institutional consensus appears to be in place that a change will definitely be caused post-March 2012 Senate elections, were the ruling political dispensation allowed to have its marauding ways till then. “If change in top command is brought in now, it would be for mala fide reasons and the institutional reaction will be as decisive, but come March it will be a different story,” was the assessment of a concerned three-star.
The potent mix to justify the hitherto unjustifiable appears to be in place. There is no governance per se anymore, anywhere. Law and order is conspicuous by its very absence. The economy is bankrupt. Corruption has touched unimaginable heights. Incompetence is the sole requirement for landing important government posts. The executive mocks judges. Court verdicts are not worth the paper they are typed on. Thousands of people are being pushed below the poverty line every day, while the ruling elite churns out new millionaires and billionaires by the week. Desperate circumstances have transformed ordinary masses into raving, raging mobs. The disconnect between the rulers and the ruled is absolute, and naked. We are hurtling towards being a failed State. So what is holding the natural ‘unnatural’ consequence from occurring? Concerns about international reactions, or the obligatory weight of a three-year extension? Should it not happen, no matter what? Is this criminalised democracy still the only or the better option available? I do not know, but we may get the answers sooner than we expect.

Mohammad Malick The writer is editor The News, Islamabad.
Last edited by anmol on 31 Oct 2011 01:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby ramana » 31 Oct 2011 01:04

TSP moving from competitive authoritarianism to criminalized autocracy.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby CRamS » 31 Oct 2011 03:14

No doubt about either the message or who sent it. Identical to ISI modus operendi against India. Lets see how long Unkil tolerates this before TSP pays a price.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Dipanker » 31 Oct 2011 05:26

^ You have the wrong article linked, here is the right URL:

Kabul Attack Gets Faction’s Message Across

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Oct 2011 05:33

RajeshA wrote:Both are ugly screwed up in-bred breeds! There is nothing beautiful about them! Mr. Khar looks like a man with makeup and Ms Fatima looks like she had an ill-fitting jaw replacement! These "women" happen to be just two of the many millions of ugly Pakistanis out there! What beautiful!



But, but RajeshA-ji:

A short while ago you were advocating millions of Indian men to marry Paki women. Why this about turn? :-?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby archan » 31 Oct 2011 05:52

Kakkaji wrote:But, but RajeshA-ji:

A short while ago you were advocating millions of Indian men to marry Paki women. Why this about turn? :-?

But he didn't say that they should marry them because they are beautiful! :rotfl:
Anyways folks, beauty is in the eyes of beholder, as the saying goes. Most people are beautiful and ugly at the same time. Lets not worry much about their faces, but be careful of their pakiness.
Ah..the thread is nearing its 72 anyway, so responding.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby jrjrao » 31 Oct 2011 06:22

Uh oh. Even though the photu:

Image

still looks properly whiskey-laden, it appears that somebody did indeed hide away the bottle this weekend, and so Gobar actually sounds sober:

No good news
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/10/kya-khabar/
What is Pakistan coming to? It is in dire straits. If you cannot see this you should either have your eyes examined or your brains, preferably both.

We have been going round in circles but hardly any can see that after 64 years we are standing not at the starting post but way behind it. Pathetic. That is why I cannot understand people who on meeting or phoning you, ask: Kya Khabar – “What news?” The news is that there is no news. The dust hanging is much ado about nothing, raised by our going round in circles (there are still people who are yet again pining for an army takeover). That’s the news: pathetic, pitiable, dismal and a thousand times wretched and shameless. It’s nothing short of denying God’s gift and His munificence. What a sad lot we are, happy only with words, words and more words.

What has happened to us in the meantime? Terrorism, local and foreign, state and non-state, is rampant. Our basic law doesn’t work. There is no governance, not even a semblance of government, just a fiction. The treasury is bankrupt. Unqualified people are manning key posts. Corruption has broken all records. Many legislators are crooks and an embarrassing some hold fake education degrees. The country is indebted to the gills and begging for more. Inflation is rife. There is no energy and no jobs. The people are uneducated and illiterate, even most of those that pass off for ‘educated’. Population growth is the highest in the world, a time bomb getting ready to go off in 20 to 30 years, when man will start eating man. There is no justice. There is no security. No public transport with even trains and planes diminishing by the hour. The day is virtually upon us when to go from Karachi to Islamabad or Lahore one will have to go via Dubai and catch a connection, and not on PIA. People’s stake in Pakistan has been lost, with large swathes wanting to opt out. Politicians and ‘intellectuals’ peddle out all our known ills that they intend to cure but neither do they tell us how nor who has the will and capacity to do so. Ours is a totally dis-balanced society, lack adl.

The relevant question would be: how are we best known? Say ‘Pakistan’ to foreigners and what are the images that immediately come to their minds? Terrorism. American drone-bombings. Cold-blooded murders. Kidnapping. Wanton bombings. Turmoil is all over, with the world’s largest internal and external refugee problem. Floods. Earthquakes. Bankruptcy. Begging bowl. Dishonesty. Gender inequality. Obscurantism. Drugs. Guns… Is there anything positive? :(( :((

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby A_Gupta » 31 Oct 2011 06:26

Since this thread is approaching its end - it is a truism that if a woman doesn't look good in a photograph, it is the fault of the photographer.
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby sanjaykumar » 31 Oct 2011 07:24

Mmmmm.....can't say I sprained my tunica albuginea.


Besides she is Lebanese.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Airavat » 31 Oct 2011 07:32

NY Times: US seeks ISI aid in peace efforts :lol:
The strategy is emerging amid an increase in the pace of attacks against Americans in Kabul, including a suicide attack on Saturday that killed as many as 10 Americans and in which the Haqqanis are suspected. In short, the United States is in the position of having to rely heavily on the ISI to help broker a deal with the same group of militants that leaders in Washington say the spy agency is financing and supporting. “The Pakistanis see the contradictions in the American approach,” said Shamila N. Chaudhary, a former top Obama White House aide on Pakistan and Afghanistan. “The big question for the administration is, What can the Pakistanis actually deliver? Pakistan is holding its cards very closely.”

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby shiv » 31 Oct 2011 07:34

jrjrao wrote:No good news
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/10/kya-khabar/
Our basic law doesn’t work. There is no governance, not even a semblance of government, just a fiction. The treasury is bankrupt. Unqualified people are manning key posts. Corruption has broken all records. Many legislators are crooks and an embarrassing some hold fake education degrees. The country is indebted to the gills and begging for more. Inflation is rife. There is no energy and no jobs. The people are uneducated and illiterate, even most of those that pass off for ‘educated’.


I would like to modify the above paragraph and compare that to a company

Our basic law doesn’t work. There is no governance, not even a semblance of government, just a fiction. The treasury company is bankrupt. Unqualified people are manning key posts. Corruption has broken all records. Many legislators company directors are crooks and an embarrassing some hold fake education degrees. The country company is indebted to the gills and begging for more. Inflation is rife. There is no energy and no jobs. The people workers are uneducated and illiterate, even most of those that pass off for ‘educated’.


What would be the solution for such a company. I am no economist. But lay off and sell off are part of the company needs to be broken up and the profit making pats sold off to managers who can run them and loss making parts taken under separate control and inefficient workers fired or re trained.

But Pakisatn is not a company. It is a sovereign nation state with a US membership. It's borders and setiments must be respected. India must solve teh Cashmere problem. The US cannot attack Pakistanis and needs to wear blinkers and say "Oh Al Qaeda did this. Haqqani does that. The Pakistanis are so innocent"

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby krisna » 31 Oct 2011 08:24

Geopolitics of Durand Line Questionable status as international border G Parthasarathy.
The Pakistan Army’s grandiose schemes for “strategic depth” in Afghanistan have been premised on ensuring that Afghanistan is ruled by an internationally isolated Pariah regime, which would result in it becoming a de facto client state of Pakistan. Given its pretensions to power and influence in Afghanistan, the brief period of Taliban rule was regarded by the Pakistan military as its golden age. But behind this bluster and bravado lies a key strategic calculation. A Pariah regime in Kabul would have neither the influence nor power to aggressively assert Afghanistan’s historical claims to territories seized from defeated Afghan rulers by Imperial British power. No Afghan Pashtun ruler has ever accepted the Durand Line, which divided and separated Pashtuns between Afghanistan and British India, as its international border with Pakistan.

must hurt etch and dee of TSP immensely. :((
The Prime Minister’s Special envoy to Af-Pak, Mr Satinder Lambah, has recently published a study of the Imperial machinations that led to the Durand Line being imposed as the “frontier line” between British India and Afghanistan in 1893 following negotiations between Afghanistan’s then Amir, Abdur Rahman Khan, and Sir Mortimer Durand, the then Foreign Secretary of British India. With Tsarist Russia extending its empire across Central Asia and into Persia, the 1893 agreement also set the limits of British territorial ambitions in the “Great Game,” after Imperial Britain and Tsarist Russia had agreed on the limits of Russia’s sphere of influence in 1873.

Egged on by its erstwhile Governor of the Northwest Frontier Province, Sir Olaf Caroe, the British, who had developed a distinct distaste for Prime Minister Nehru’s left-oriented nonalignment, decided to adopt a pro-Pakistani tilt. Caroe, who was an ardent admirer of Jinnah, persuaded American Secretary of State John Foster Dulles that it was essential for the Western allies to support Pakistan as a Muslim state which was to be designated to safeguard Western access to the “wells of power” — the oilfields of the Persian Gulf.

The Afghans held that the disputed Pashtun region should not only have been given the option of joining either India or Pakistan, but also the additional option of becoming an independent state joining Afghanistan through a referendum. The Afghan position remains that the areas that historically and legally formed a part of Afghanistan were forcibly taken away between 1879 and 1921 and subsequently made a part of Pakistan. Afghanistan’s claim that territories extending till the River Indus constituted its frontier, together with its demand for the inclusion of the port of Karachi in Afghanistan, was voiced in secret negotiations with Nazi Germany. Thereafter, in November 1944, the Afghans urged the British that Pashtun tribal areas under British rule should be given the choice of independence or reuniting with their “motherland”. They also urged the British that Afghanistan should be given a “corridor” to the sea through Baluchistan. The Afghan National Assembly passed a resolution in July 1949, rejecting all “unequal” treaties signed with the British and denouncing the description of the Durand Line as the international frontier with Pakistan. The Afghan government also staunchly opposed the grant of UN membership to Pakistan.

According to a German journalist who interviewed him the day before he died, Zia was beset with delusions of grandeur and spoke of Pakistani influence extending from the ramparts of Delhi’s Red Fort, across Afghanistan, to Central Asia. :rotfl: Pakistani author Ahmed Rashid asserts: “Zia’s vision of a Pakistani influenced region extending into Central Asia depended on an undefined border with Afghanistan, so that the army could justify interference in that country and beyond, as a defined frontier would have entailed recognising international law and the sovereignty of Afghanistan.”

Pakistan thereafter entered into a dangerous game of imperial overreach into Afghanistan and Central Asia, by challenging the international community, through support for what Ahmed Rashid describes as “surrogate regimes such as the Taliban”. It has left virtually no space for backing off on this score. While the Punjabi-dominated Pakistani military may have brutalised lightly armed Baluchis and Bangladeshis, it fears the Pashtuns. General Kayani thus has a difficult choice. If he chooses to try and fulfil Zia’s ambitions, he will have to confront American and Western wrath amidst concern in Iran, Central Asia and Russia. Even if the Taliban succeed in capturing substantial parts of the Pashtun areas in Southern Afghanistan, they will find that unlike in the past they will be faced with determined resistance from the non-Pashtuns in the country, backed by Western powers, Russia, Iran and the neighbouring Central Asian states.

In the ensuing turmoil, the already dwindling writ of the Pakistani state in its Pakhtunkhwa Province and tribal areas will be further eroded. We will then have a de facto Talibanised “Pakhtunistan” on both sides of the Durand Line. Have General Kayani and his Corps Commanders seriously thought through what would happen as a consequence of their ill-advised swagger, bluff and bluster? I think not. Historically, apart from the foray of Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s brilliant Sikh General Hari Singh Nalwa, Punjab’s rulers have never prevailed over the Pashtuns. General Kayani would be well advised to remember this.


good article as ever from GP.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 31 Oct 2011 08:32

Kakkaji wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Both are ugly screwed up in-bred breeds! There is nothing beautiful about them! Mr. Khar looks like a man with makeup and Ms Fatima looks like she had an ill-fitting jaw replacement! These "women" happen to be just two of the many millions of ugly Pakistanis out there! What beautiful!

But, but RajeshA-ji:

A short while ago you were advocating millions of Indian men to marry Paki women. Why this about turn? :-?

Oh I still very much urge Indian men to marry Paki women, and that too in wholesale.

1) Once the Paki women marry Indian men and become Dharmic Indian women, they too would become beautiful. But till then they would remain ugly ducklings!

2) Indian women should be favored by Indian men over Pakistani women. So Indian women are beautiful, Paki women are not! It is the 50 million Indian men, who don't get Indian women, who should close their noses, hold their breath, and marry the stinking Paki woman.

3) Ever thought of haggling over the price of hags! :)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Rishi » 31 Oct 2011 09:18

:roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 31 Oct 2011 09:23

GopiD wrote:
rajanb wrote:Doc, I go with plain stupidity and the fact that the Pakis have the US by the short hairs and do give it a painful tug, once in a while.

It has been fascinating to see US administration, after administration falling for the Paki whares. Sometimes I wonder if there is something the Pakis have on the Americans. So when thieves fall apart, this is the scenario that results.

It is not the American armed forces which are weak (CRamS, music to your ears :wink: ) but their politcal leaders who have weakened the US.


Sorry for the intrusion Rajanji....but if we replace the US with India in the above post, we can see that the statements still hold true..... :rotfl:


True GopiD. However there is one minute difference. Once, our armed forces get committed, they pretty much rock n roll on their own! :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby RajeshA » 31 Oct 2011 09:29

Pakistanis are racists to the core, and counter-racism is the response! By doting on Pakistani women as being beautiful, we help feed Pakistani ego of racial superiority!

At the same time, some Pakistan solutions offered have to stand the test of counter-arguments and propaganda! Our counter-racism should however not be used to shackle our options!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Satya_anveshi » 31 Oct 2011 09:54

IMO Gobar's sober piece directly compliments Mansoor Ijaz's propagandu which targets Zardari and now Imran drawing attention from Paki crowd in hundreds of thousands. Not long ago, one would hardly liked to even hear Imran on TV. In a recent interview with Iftikhar Ahmed in Jawab Deyh, I got a sense that Imran believes something is going to just work out for him (in this regard not that different from Mushy who may be a backup). I know this is not different from what every politician believes but sudden change is something to keep in context.

If rhetoric against Zardari increases along with stuff like those cell phone SMS messages, we can be reasonably sure that "change is in the air."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby Satya_anveshi » 31 Oct 2011 10:16

--self deleted
Last edited by Satya_anveshi on 31 Oct 2011 20:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 20

Postby rajanb » 31 Oct 2011 10:18

Pakistani TV presenter faces arrest warrant for duty-free wine


A Pakistani television presenter could face prison after customs seized two bottles of duty-free wine from her luggage.
An arrest warrant has reportedly been issued for Atiqa Odho after she purchased the bottles four months ago from the United Arab Emirates while on her way to Pakistan. She was briefly detained by airport security and customs on June 5 at Benazir Bhutto International Airport. Though she was released without charge, authorities were subsequently forced to take action against her when Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry retroactively picked up the offence.


She was booked under the Prohibition Order of 1979. Pakistan has been a dry country since the 1970s. (If there is no water then let them drink wine - RajanB's famous last words)

Civil Judge Rawalpindi Hamayun Pervez issued the warrant after she failed to appear in court on Tuesday to answer the offence.


Her supporters have accused the courts of targeting her for her support of Pervez Musharraf and his attempts to re-enter national politics. She has appeared on TV as the spokesman of his new party.


"When the chief justice sees Atiqa, what he really sees is Pervez Musharraf," a friend told The Independent. "And that's when he goes bonkers!" (Good grief! His eyes are as rheumy as mine. I see beauty when there is ugliness)


She is ugly. But just in case you guys want to gloat on their lack of superiority, have a look:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8822164/Pakistani-TV-presenter-faces-arrest-warrant-for-duty-free-wine.html
:mrgreen:


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